Staying Great


It's time for another edition of Prime Time Layers. We asked are. Nba Experts to rank the best team players in the NBA. Right now. We kicked off the list. Jimmy Butler at number fifteen number. Fourteen is the answer to our trivia question this all-star. Nbp has six all star appearances since entering the League in twenty eleven. So who could be? Listen next I take the prime time. Players ranking is Kyrie Irving despite only playing twenty games a season irving recorded two fifty point games one of four players this season with multiple such games putting on a show. It's just after being drafted first overall out of Duke. He has won rookie of the year in NBA title and an Olympic gold medal irving puts it up talk player number fourteen nets guard Kyrie irving all right. You heard a number fourteen kyrie Irving Max Kellerman. You are up first. One word to describe Kyrie radio active careers radioactive look. I've said he's the most skillful player in the history of basketball. I don't mean he has the wisdom as to no winter deploy his skills. How much of it? And when that that wisdom he does not yet have to the extent that some of the greatest players ever had but skills wise I when you include the handles the shot the finishing in the paint. What does he do? Passing appeasing great on the offense then a skillful a player as ever existed so yes a lot of power there. But what radioactive actually means? Is You have an unstable nucleus. If you harness that energy you have you know nuclear energy which can be an incredibly good thing and Lebron. James was able to harness that energy and help us. Kyri to beat the warriors game seven at Oracle the year the warriors. One seventy three games but left without someone who knows how to harness that energy and that includes Kyrie himself he can have a destructive kind of instability can have a of the nucleus of the team can have a destructive a deleterious effect on the team. I give you I the Celtics and then the Brooklyn Nets. Both in both instances. You took a talent like reports the team and they actually got better. That should never happen. Incredibly powerful but not fully stable enough to really harness that power. All the time radioactive. Well thank you. Dr Phil Kelemen appreciate that psychological breakdown. I'm so touched by it. My word would be special. Ed because the brother is special is not just that he's averaging twenty seven. There are a lot of good basketball players in the NBA. Very few are great. He's one of the great ones. Then you take into account the fact that he is a showstopper. He is box office. Kyrie Irving you walk through the turnstiles to watch this show that his brother is capable of putting on as you said in the past. He might have the greatest handle in the history of basketball. This is a league. Dentist at odds. Ahah Thomas Alan Iverson. Nate tiny archibald excetera. And you might say that Kyri Irvine has the greatest handle in history about. Let me not forget Chris Paul to all right still Kyrie Irving is that Konadu radioactive and all of that stuff you can use debt. My response would beat the. Boston situation is an example. He didn't handle a lot of things in terms of personal life so well that particular year. No doubt about that last year you walk into a new situation new guys Kenny. Atkinson with somebody that they like. But a lot of guys didn't believe in and should've then believe should have been the head coach and Lo and behold he is gone. Jot Von was your interim coach for two games. He was but he ain't going be the damn head coach. The Brooklyn Nets next season. It'll probably be tied Lou or more Jackson Tyler with beaver front runners if they're smart and so when you look at it from that perspective we talk about the Brooklyn Nets and what the expectations are. It's the combination of Kevin Durant with Kyrie Irving. He is special is the ideal. Could he have work? Things out with. Lebron stayed in Cleveland. Yes but deliver them from getting a championship. Noah did not they WANNA title? He's been right because by the way and the two finals that whole wait a minute into two finals that he was there. The average twenty seven and twenty nine respectively. If I remember correctly he was that elite. Okay so when I look at him. I'm saying Yeah. You could say radioactive. I can't summarily pooh-poohed that I get all that but the bottom line is this brother is so special talent. He is box office. You walk through the turnstiles to watch him. He's electrifying. He's skilled and by the way he's the champion too. We can't forget all of that. I think wrestle as you surp- Radioactive Lebron. Lebron knew how to harness. That material knew how to harness the energy and focus it. That's what I'm saying Stephen A. Absent Lebron presence or a coach. Who REALLY BUYS INTO? He's going to have a negative effect on the team. We've seen it too often and that should never happen because you say that. I've sat here and said he might have the best handles of all time. I took it much further than that Stephen A. Even in this segment I think he might be the most skillful offense of player of all time off to you are skilled because on the one hand you have to acknowledge the handles might be the best. Everett's right up there. It's it's not number one and now of all those players with handles who could shoot. Light Cavalry. Well then you go Steph Steph. Could certainly question in the paint like Kyrie will let me ask you this question to give you the answer in the segment. You're the same. God Max Kellerman. That pointed out that it's like you saying about Lebron harnessing that you also said that Lebron could have done a better job to keep Kyri from leaving to begin with as well so what about radio. Active materials hard to handle brother. All right. That's consistent. We're radio then. Okay by the Way Guy. Special radioactive a Kyrie made news yesterday because he said that he wants Kemba one on one. Obviously we know. He took his job on the Celtics. So we'll up to discuss that at later. Date to some interest by him. There should be televised car. Reverses put data with Taiwan put put put thought TV. Stephen you can do play by play on zoom. I'm there for all of it. Gets you access to licensed agents twenty four seven which means that? Geico is always there for you. If only everyone was always there for you like your wife when you forget your keys at work. And you get my text. I am looking for the spare Hausky. Maybe I can get through. The window. Turns OUT THE ALARM WORKS. It works fast. You should probably call me Back Guy. Go always there for you with savings and twenty four seven access to licensed agents obviously episodes seven and eight aired last night and who better to break it down our friend. The Great Michael Willmann joining us now. Always good to see you. Michael I know that Max Stephen. I cannot wait to get into this with you but Michael just for a little context here assuming most people know you're Chicago native you know Michael Jordan you know these. Both teams intimately. I want the fells to win on this too. But what has surprised you so far about the Docu series. Well Molly did little bits and pieces. That have surprised. Lisa for starters like Jerry Krause telling Phil Jackson Eighty two and you still not coming back. I. I don't think I knew that in real time. And even though I knew about the kinds of drama drip by drip drip. I think what has surprised me even in reliving. It is the amount of drama that bulls had to manage by the Bulls. Let's talk about two different teams almost in those six championships but Phil Jackson and Michael Jordan were the real managers. I mean Jerry Krause while he put the team together managing the daily drama. I mean the the dentist Robin Drama alone could have been a fulltime job for somebody but then you had you had all sorts of things like how many shots and whose team was how many minutes played the things that normally confront basketball team. You have these massive things whether it was dealing with Jerry Krause bringing Tim Floyd another coach into the team. While Phil Jackson is successfully leading them to championships and krause wanting to break up the team in the drama between Scottie. Pippen and Jerry Krause and Michael Jerry Custom Phil Jackson Jury. Cross you just episode after episode. Michael losing his father being murdered during the time coming back. There's just so much drama that teams don't face anymore. I don't know the any successful team has faced it and managed it quite like those guys did Michael Will. It is always on an privilege to have my big Bro on the show. His listened if you want to know anything about Michael Jordan from a media perspective shot obviously would be first on the list. I can make a legitimate argument that Mike will bond is second on that list maker. Damn show before me. Let me let me ask you this question. Watching these watching the first eight episodes who looks the worse in this Docu series? You got people complaining about Jordan. I love what I'm seeing from him and his candor but other people have been critical people have been critical of Scottie. Pippen have been critical of Isaiah. Thomas who has taken the biggest and your estimation over these first eight episodes aid there's only one villain there's one villain and he's deceased. He cannot defend himself. Is Jerry Krause? The reason you have a title call. The last dance is because there was something final about it when it didn't need to be final remember. Michael has said many times before now. I don't know that it was as public as it is. Certainly to people like you and me that you play until somebody beats you. And that's what he wanted to do. And Jerry. Krause didn't want that I mentioned bringing in Tim. Floyd I mean you got Phil Jackson. Guy Who's going to go on to more championships as a coach than anybody in the history of the sport that anybody in the history of sports in North America I think and you want to get rid of him you tell you can go eighty two. And he's still not coming back. And it's sort of unseemly at times to criticize Jerry Krause but Steven A. And you know this Max. I'm not sure how much you knew of crowds in real time. But Jerry was a villain when he was alive he knew what he was doing. He was both Brill. He constructed this team. You know trading for Scotty pippin before draft night essentially to get Seattle to be a partner in net move then trading Charles Oakley which was unconventional. Say That lead to get. Bill Cartwright and playing time for Horace Grant with one move to get Toni Kukoc Indus- second round to get all we did to bring in Phil Jackson even know people didn't want that Michael Want that. He wanted to play for Collins. Jerry Krause is villa. He's gotta own it posthumously. I know it seems tough to do that. But you can't tell the story of any last dance or the Chicago Bulls as they reached the end without Jerry. Krause is enormous role in it. Mike the old branch rickey a year too early instead of a year too late. Of course basketball's not baseball and krause came from baseball originally basketball and then worked in baseball and obviously the Bulls would have won a couple more championships. When you look at who else won the championships? How they fared against teams like Scotty goes to Portland all almost knocks out the Lakers. The year they win the chip. What would you don't with Michael Jordan and Tony Coup Coach and company? So clearly krause is the villain there but Stephen as brought this up and I've had the same thought watching Reinsdorf gets to sit there and kind of also point to krause. He's the owner. If he wanted to pay Scottie Pippen he could have done it if he wanted to. Keep the team together. The buck stops with him so the I can't say it surprised but I feel a little bit like I want to take a shower. After watching vines dwarf sitting there helping focus the villain light onto krause. Who's not here to defend himself? Well Max you race good points and and people talk all the time. Have PEOPLE SAY. Wait a minute how come jerry gets a slide and is this something you have to consider before criticising Jerry Ryan store. He's not like Jerry Jones or Dan Snyder or owner Mark Cuban who owns an enormous share. If not all of it. That's not the case. Not then I don't know what. The percentage Jerry Reinsdorf owns now but I remember reading certainly that that percentage was like thirteen twelve thirteen percent. The Jerry Reinsdorf had the sort of autonomy if you will to do the things you're talking about Jerry. Reinsdorf had partners. I'm not saying it functioned like Brooklyn. 'cause obviously functions a hell of a lot smoother than the Brooklyn situation with all the guys they had but Jerry Krause was not the outright owner people need to understand that majority. Maybe the partner Ryan I mean He. I don't know that he could have said. We're GONNA pay Scottie. Pippin at the time we would have been what you know fifty million dollars total instead of nineteen or whatever it was. I don't know I don't know that he didn't but I'm not sure he did. So we have to be careful about REINSDORF and just sort of putting on him the mantle of dictator. He wasn't Jerry. Jones wasn't the relationship or the situation that epic Docu series. The last dance we saw episode seven and eight on Sunday. Michael Wilbon back here with us. Chicago native always good to have you. Sir Stephen a did you wanna get into something. I I was going to start with Scottie Pippen. Yeah go for it. I wanted to start. I know we gotta go to Scotty Pippin but I wanted to start off with Charles Barkley because obviously we all love Charles. Barkley Mike will bond. I know how close you to are. He tried to basically imply that. Michael Jordan with the Steve Kerr's of the world the Scott Burrell's of the world. I forgot the word that he used but this discretionary bullying whatever. I don't think that was the words. But that's basically where he was going towards. What were your thoughts when you heard what Charles Barkley had to say about Michael Jordan and in regards to his treatment of his teammates. Well look everybody's gotTa take on Michael and how? He was on teammates. I mean that's so far Houston. What's that selective? Prosecution was the words he used select prosecution. As we'll start me said look everybody had a different leadership style. The reason part of the reason for this documentary of the reasoning exists is because Michael decided. Okay I'm going to be able to control the conversation in terms of why I did what I did and how I did it. I it comes out and says you know you've had this conversation with him. He wasn't trying to adopt anybody else's leadership style. He was going to do this his way. And when it worked then you had to buy and you heard him during. I thought the most effective part of the last dance. The part that made me reach for a notebook and put my reporter hat back on his wall. Michael said winning has a price. And if you don't want to buy into the mentality I am using here. Get out it's going to be is going to be held for you. I think was the phrase so you see all those teams you see will produce e Winnington and those guys set at the time that we did it. Seem like he crossed the line. Yes as time went on. Do we think he was a great teammate. Yes this is not you look you can have whatever take you. WanNa have on it and I understand Charleston's tape because it was different but nobody else then time when as much I mean magic and Kareem on the way in but it worked and so I even sit there interesting. I'm watching in real time. I have not watched. I did not watch all the episodes of the advanced like most people in our business. I wanted to watch them in real time with my son. Who's a twelve year old basketball player and his eyes get so big? When Michael says certain things to his teammates we are watching. The unedited version would not watch the PG rated version of the DEUCE. And he's like. Wow He's a dad. Did he have to do that with his teammates? And I'm like I don't know if he had to but it worked they won. They didn't win occasionally they didn't win three and then lose to that they should have one say like Golden State they won and Jordan way worked. And so I I understand Charleston's take on it or if anybody else has to take on it but I understand Michael's as well. He's giving his take through these ten parts in this series in a way the football parallel to Jordan is actually coaches bellichik. Where his way is not the fun way? It just works the best but Michael. I wanted to ask you about something that the document the documentary. The last couple of episodes kind of got across that Seattle was a hopeless underdog in that finals. And that really spoke. Boorda Michael Jordan and the Bulls Dominant. Seattle is a sixty four win. Ten sixty four win team. Who would sweat back to back? Defending champion rockets who beaten in a seven game series Utah. Who would get out of the West two seasons in rural right after this season and they had a great team? Sixty four win team that Jordan. Just kind of brushed aside. How much do you think? Jordan's legacy what are you thinking to Jordan's legacy that. He never went to a seventh game that no other team was ever considered like. There's no Celtics Lakers 'cause Jordan was there otherwise maybe jazz or the Lakers right. We're the Celtics or that. Great rival what do you think it did to Jordan's legacy that he was as dominant as he was. Well enhanced it. I mean that just legacy reputation in real time in enhanced. The there's there's that Video going around where talks about you. Know Lebron's record in game seven Jordan answers. What what's the game seven? And so obviously he had a tough game sevens three actually on the way one he lost to Detroit which was sort of infamous also then. He beat the Knicks in a game game. Seven and Indiana and I think the toughest team they played a once. They became champions. Were the Indiana Pacers? Reggie Miller's Pacers Larry Bird's pacers coach so it enhance his legacy without question and is interesting. Because you know people wanNA say in part. Oh well it just shows the. He didn't have the tough competition. That's a bunch of garbage. Look at the people that Jordan took down along the way including at the very end Stockton Malone twice. You know Gary Payton who is one of the great players unsung maybe. Because he played in Seattle I mean he and Shawn Kemp they. You mentioned Max. Their resume they were grady? Took down those Cleveland Cavaliers Teams Group of four with Mark Price from Brad Door to and Ron Harper. Took him down twice so the list of victims is unbelievable. I wrote about that last week so I don't want to hear from people that Oh they couldn't get him to a game seven so maybe therefore it points that they were lightweight. It does not do any such thing. Michael I want to get to the Scottie. Pippen Situation Though. I just know him as the broadcaster guy working with them and this has been interesting to watch because I there was the situation with the timing of his surgery dealing with the injury and then these last couple of episodes we saw the situation where he decided to sit out in a playoff game. How do you think he looks? How do you think he's being portrayed in this Docu series? Well you know like you. I have now known Scotty. Outside of basketball for seems like close to half his life. 'cause it's close to that he's been in our business and a CO worker now colleague and Co worker and I feel for Scotty because the retelling of the one point eight seconds anytime you retell. It is good. Look he's going to look bad. I mean there's no way around that You hear Steve Kerr and Michael Jordan. Bill Cartwright Horace Grant talk on camera. This last Sunday night about how that was as teammate Jordan was gone but he's still part of the organization. Obviously it makes got. He looks bad in that. In the retelling Scottie Pippen. That's okay. That's his worst moment as any of us any of us want to be judged on solely our worst moment Scottie. Pippen is one of two players. Who is in that outfit for all six championships to Michael? Scottie and my position is not just. His Robin to Michael's Batman is more like Gehrig to Jordan's Babe Ruth Again. Looks bad you can't. You can't make excuses for that episode. But Scottie Pippen got such a body of work my God. He's got years worth of work if that was all he had or he had that a couple of trips in the finals where they lost. Then you couldn't make this argument Marg. Is Scottie Pippen is one of the. Maybe the most underrated player of his generation and an extraordinary player. And there is that moment and it has to be dealt with but that does not color all of. He's career not to me when there's so much else on his resume. Wilpon I completely agree with you about Scottie. Pippen and his greatness and what he means to the game of basketball and how it should be appreciated. The only part that I would jump off in terms of sharing European jumped off that wagon. Is that Scotties. Own Words. Indict him his whole words about. I didn't want to F- up my summer. That's why I didn't get the surgery. The summer going into the last season even though it meant me missing the first thirty five games in the season and potentially compromising a championship a he admitted that he said that. And then and this part eight apart seven. What did he say he said? I probably would have done it again in terms of sitting out so I don't think it's the actual act themselves. We can all give a mistake by such greatness but the fact that he said he would do it again. I think that's an indictment where I sorry for somebody. I could make the argument Isaiah. Thomas deserves more sympathy. He listened to bill. Laimbeer walked off the court when they finally lost in the conference finals to the Chicago Bulls and what some could argue. It cost them a berth on the Dream Team obviously when we think about NBA law even though we recognize him as a top champion and one of the greatest players to have ever played in so we still hold on to the mistakes he made. Even though unlike Scottie Pippen he said about how to do it over again. I would not have done it Steve. I don't disagree with anything you say. Look I think we look when you can have a dustup with someone and people can judge what side they want to be on? And that's largely what we're talking about with Isaiah and you and I have talked Zia during this period of time. Multiple Times I know is as Thomas. He isn't we know you can set aside. His place in history is there. It doesn't get questioned. It BE THREATENED. He led a team to two championships. Back to back going through Larry. Michael Jordan Larry Bird and Magic Johnson. Like pays close and I agree with you about people started talking about Kyrie Irving Allen Iverson who are great soloists great performers. They were not Isaiah. Thomas when Isaiah said to Kevin Durant and Lebron James. Those guys would have dominated the eighties. Ninety I call him and I said I totally disagree with because they couldn't beat your team. Those whose more athletic than Isaiah Thomas. Even now playing the Game Kyri. I mean maybe two percent better. I don't know here's the basketball player or the leader or the winner that Isaiah Thomas with Isaiah to me you can set aside his place in history. And then you could argue the merits of should he bit on the Dream Team. What kept him off. The Dream Team in Jordan passed this you can. You can deal with all those things. Those those those sidebars but Isaiah. Thomas is place in history. I don't WanNa hear from anybody questions. What he was as a player and a leader. Don't WanNa hear it fair enough Michael Wilpon so much fun. Having you on the show it is always good to see you and I love that. You're watching this with your son in real time such special moments that you get to enjoy. We're all having fun watching this every Sunday. Obviously the last two episodes are this Sunday. Michael Thank you. Kindly stay safe. We'll talk to you soon thank you. Let's get it. Typically Receiver Mike Evans appeared on an instagram. Live session with former bucks or super. Louis Murphy had this to say about his new quarterback the opportunity to get Tom Brady like that's Tom Brady. That's the greatest of all time. He's a franchise changer like ticket. Sales are GonNa go through the roof. Like Primetime Games in hander stands the game of football like nobody else understands that level besides the greats and it's GonNa be great to work with him joining us now. Our quarterback Danner Lobski and Stephen. I'll start with you. You think. Radio at forty three is still a franchise quarterback. I think he will be this season. That's my direct answer to that question. He will be a franchise quarterback this season because I think he has the requisite weapons available to him to cover any mistakes that he makes to minimize the mistakes that he might normally make because he doesn't have to force anything guys are going to be open. God when Evans are GonNa be open braid. Our they're going to be open with Gronkowski. Somebody's going to be open and Brady is going to get them to football. And I have profound evidence to support my my assertion. Jameis Winston yes. He threw thirty sections. Yes he should be the reigning defensive player of the year at the quarterback position. Considering the fact that he's a thirty for thirty guy giving new meaning to that off. But guess what? He did throw thirty three touchdowns he did throw five thousand five thousand one hundred and nine yards Jameis Winston and so I look at that and I look at a guy like Tom Brady. Who hasn't thrown more than thirteen interceptions in a season in more than a decade and I look at the requisite weapons. He's going to have available to him. Those players around him will make him. Look like a franchise quarterback. Because remember as I've said to Max on a thousand occasions I have never in my life seen fake quarterback successful throwing the football to himself. You GotTa have people that know football too. He has that now. He has those weapons and I think that he will look like a franchise quarterback this coming season. No question maximum. 'cause I teed it up to St Stephen's thing franchise quarterback which obviously he is Stephen Agrees. But what I meant to say was franchise changing quarterback like in. He still changed. The face of this franchise like what Mike Evans alluded to so my apologies. There exactly what he's GonNa do. I mean look what he's going to go Jameis. Winston won seven games last year with this offense statistically a pretty good defense as it turns out and a lot of weapons and won seven Games Stephen. Thirty interceptions giving the other team one hundred twelve points. You could argue. That's the worst starter. Who played the whole season and football last year right? That's a hell of a defensive player of the year Candidacy Stephen as you mentioned. And so if you ask. Does Tom Brady even in decline improve your chances over that I would say yes. Especially when you give them the Security Blanket Rob Gronkowski on top of an embarrassment of riches on the offense and then you get them atop. Listen mock drafts including guys on this show came. I think it was Mel Kiper. Who took worse to go to the giants? First Offensive Lineman taken the bucks somehow. Snag him where they drafted so brady has every single thing he needs and to me. This looks like a nine or ten win team. So is he a franchise change in quarterback any competent quarterback replacement replacing Jameis Winston. Should I GUESS? Changed the franchise in the sense that they're hovering right around five hundred you flip a couple of games and all of a sudden. They're a playoff contender and brady happens to be the guy. But I don't think he's a franchise change in quarterback in the way that everyone means people keep pointing to the Tampa Bay Bucks history. Yes the history which has nothing to do with right now. They're coming off seven win season as I mentioned with quarterback with a really bad year when you look at the entirety of the season and what he did is he like will he bring more attention. We give them a good feeling. Yes should they have a winning record? Given everything they have. Yes but is he the savior of the franchise? The guy's GONNA a really bad franchise which there haven't been very recently and make it a great franchise. No I don't think so. I would strongly disagree maxine. Cj Franchise Changing quarterback for the buccaneers. Now and he will have Fran franchise changing impact on them for the long run. Let's look off the field and the word that I've used ever since Brady went to. Tampa Bay was urgency. Not only are the players going to have more urgency from the moment brady signed forward. That means urgency offseason workouts urgency understanding their playbook urgency with they have. They're they're going to have to practice urgency with how how they take care of their body. None of these players have been around a guy like Tom. Brady this guys breaking into parts working out that is going to have an impact and effect on everybody on that Football Team. Not only for the season for the long haul also. There's going to be an urgency within their Front Office and coaching staff. Maybe like they've never felt before Brazilian had hall of fame. Quarterbacks in Big Ben and Andrew Luck was certainly turning in that direction but the urgency that he's going to feed into everybody is going to have not only this tangible impact now but for the future. I remember I was playing for the buccaneers and we were practising in training camp against the Patriots and this is down in Tampa and again this is in August. It's a thousand degrees out. We go through this grueling practice three hours long and then it's a two minute drill and the Patriots. The ball I in our coach at the time Greg Szanto said everybody. Out of playing offense for buccaneers. You guys are going to do anything right now. Go Watch Brady and that offense practice. I down happens completion. Ataman second down happens completion. Etem and I DOWN. Incompletion Downfield. Second down completion. To Ataman four plays in a row of speed UPTEMPO stuff and Edmund starts to jog back to the huddle and Brady starts to dog. Cost Him as loud as he can in front of everybody. That's not how we do things. Run your bed word back to the huddle everything like that in front of everybody. And the way that he got his guys to focus and relies the they were preparing for a high pressure moment. That's what he's going to bring the Tampa Bay and they're going to feel it this year. They're also going to feel it in the future. With how there he is going to change the culture and expectation level. Their offense is going to be better in the empty package their actual be better because he's really good at it. Their defense played more series than anybody else in the NFL last year. That's going to change. They had the worst starting field position in the NFL last year. That is going to change. But Brady's impact will be now and for the future years Tampa Bay. When I hear that I hear you guys. I hear you Dan that sometimes that can happen with culture. Stephen you'll appreciate this because I relate everything to my New York Yankees. Once upon a time the Yankees were in last place forever signed catfish hunter. Catfish Hunter was a CY young award winner. Great Pitcher the whole thing and he had one more great season less than one thousand nine hundred seventy five and the Yankees made a playoff push. But they didn't make it seventy six. He was good. They get to the world series and then he's never the same but the Yankee start winning world series and he's credited by George Steinbrenner at the time the others. He really changed the culture when catfish came. It was a franchise changer. Okay that's an easy story to tell them. Sure he contributed but really it was the trade for tyndrum. Mickey rivers and Ron. Guidry became the Cy Young Award winner it's Cetera Etcetera and they got nettlesome. Willie Randall so Tom Brady. Can he give you a good season? Can make you feel good about things. Maybe having a more attractive place to play fine but the books if they turn it around. It's not about a forty three year old quarterback for a season that he may be effective. It's about the wrong. It's about the offensive line. The Plethora of tight end wrong improved defense talking or you want to but you leakage. You weakened your own argument with the sentences brought up particularly as taste to catfish hunter. If it wasn't for catfish hunter changing that culture. They may not have elected to make those traits because they would not have had the confidence in what they had available to them the fact that he arrived and ultimately changed the culture is what made them consider the options to buffer what he had ultimately build from a foundation perspective. That's what culture changes. Do they embolden you to make moves to go for it? Because you have somebody that won't allow a foundation to fragment and ultimately deteriorate that's how you we could your own argument by bringing it up something from nineteen seventy by the way when you were two years old when they actually when they actually won the world series when they signed. Reggie Jackson who was in his prime. That's a culture changer. Super Half where. It's going to mean years going forward. That's not what this is. Tom Brady not what Tom Brady is. Fuck San Jay Joe. Down Winston and that's about it. Go ahead. Dan Go Dan. Max Max thing as an athlete a lot of times you do things and you. Maybe don't do them as efficiently or as difficult as hard as you possibly can. And then you don't reap the benefits and you sit there going man. Why am I not succeeding the way I want to? But what happens when you bring a guy like Tom Brady and that is going to leave no stone unturned and be maniacal in the way. He prepares takes care of his body and works. Is it's going to bring one guy along be two guys along and it's going to bring multiple people along that are gonna go. I'm trying that way and then what's going to happen is those guys are going to work in a different way. Like they never had before and then they're going to reap the benefits of that work and that is slowly going to change them and it's like discipleship. Gomes you grab another guy and all of a sudden that culture becomes very much so a group of people rather than one change the the vicarious but Max you're wrong thinking it's GonNa be one guy all it takes his one guy to buy in and then reap the benefits of it and then another guy does and then another guy does it. Data that is the butterfly effect of what Tom Brady will bring to. Tampa Bay is going going to do it. That way and then all of them are going from it and go. That's net Dan going to be. There's going to be a trickle effect. Hey Dan Hey Dan Max brought up Brett Fav. I would remind you one could argue that he would have had that profound impact if it wasn't for bountygate because he took the Minnesota Vikings to the NFC championship game that year and bountygate hat. Yeah right right so it didn't change the culture and some ongoing way at a good year. That's my pointed and stay. He was there for one year. You didn't say one and a half. Listen guy he'd Tampa Bay has the worst. Win percentage of any active franchise. I'm talking any sport. Nba Nhl all of them so torture the butterfly metaphor. They're going to go from a Caterpillar to a beautiful blossoming butterfly and soaraway. Because you can only go up from here right exactly so much all right so as a duo. Michael Jordan Scottie. Pippen won six championships. Mj and pippen were named to the first team. -fensive team five as teammates. The second most by duo of all time so that got us thinking if MJ could pick any player in the history of the game as his running mate who would he want. Day will join in the conversation. Good to have you back with us. Stephen I'll start with you. Who should NJ wanted his as his running mate. Would you go K. D. Lebron? I'm going to go Kevin Durant. I'm going to go Kevin Durant when I think about what does brother brings to the table at six eleven with his shooting skills his ability to spread the floor and his linked and Lanky as a defender. I like both I like both for Michael Jordan. I think that that would be a better situation. Not only that. I think that Kevin Durant would have an easy job because he's more efficient offensively as shooter. Then Lebron James is. He's a marksman extraordinaire. Did you get a shot off at any time? And he can shoot long range which obviously means he could spread the floor plus he's a significantly better free throw shooter. Lebron James is well I think when you take into account what Jordan brings to the table with his abilities to have a marksman like that who also would be easier. He would accept being one A. Or B the Georgia to Jordan's a side easier because Kevin Durant is one of those guys that doesn't need the number of shots that others would need in order to be as efficient and others effective as he is and he's a bit differential in his personality is sometimes he did it. Russell Westbrook he did it to some degree. Was Steph Curry and Klay Thompson. Even he was never a third offensive option. We understand that but his personality along with this the style his game itself. I think it's a better fit for Michael Jordan Than Lebron James Game would be. I can see why you say that K. D. is the kind of player no matter what team even theoretical team. You make in the history of basketball if you add K. D. He just made it better. He's unselfish he plays defense on five positions if you need them to and switches if you need whatever you need to do combine from outside dig into the whole. He's willing he's willing passer. He's just a great great player and an efficient score makes any team better but the answer is actually Lebron James. Well it's to Alpha's knows not Jordan the Alpha and Lebron defers next Jordan's a score and by the way when you look at what has happened. Like his career was on a team with an Alpha. Who really is a score? I guy at Westbrook everyone a championship and they had opened great teammates and like they'd had everything they needed couldn't quite get it done. When he went to Golden State he became the primary scoring option on a team with all star caliber shooters around him. But in fact when you look at how Jordan did it Jordan. Seventy two wins and the chip in under seven games. The greatest season in the history of basketball six seven the finals. He did it with his number. Two Scottie Pippen Scottie. Pippen basically is or who Lebron is. Lebron is a souped up pippen. You don't think of them defensively like that. But with broad is best in Miami was one of the all time. Great Defenders and Lebron like pippen not a great shooter but shoot it shoots it well enough is a pass first guy mentality who scores just because he can he can score so easily you're going to have to have them score a lot like a suit up pippen and we already saw what. Jordan did with a souped up. Pippen never really came close to losing so actually it's counter intuitive but Jordan and Lebron. I know it's weird counterintuitive. The two best players ever Jordan one Lebron to is also the best pairing maximum stephen a first off before I get into this question. I wanted to address something with you both. I I would like to apologize to your both and to the public. I made a mistake last time. I was on his show to argument about first off. Stephen a thanks for school me on that. But we got to argument about a symptomatic and I of misspoke and took the stance that you know. Wouldn't be able to tell your eysenck thematic. You both were correct. I don't want to miss him. Form misrepresenting anything out there to the public. I think it's worth me apologizing. That was wrong and Stephen Smith. I understand what the argument was about about the end of the about actually coming back and playing the season so guys prompt in Kudos on that both brothers. Thank you allow me to As it relates to this argument is always going to be real with the guys you guys know. I am and owning mistakes and moving forward. I also want to say Stephen. I relate to you on this one with Max You bring up a really good point about Lebron James. I do say this though. Just if they are playing into triangle. The triangle does have a tendency to take the ball out of the hands of the point. Guard so Stephen Smith back to your point on this one the ball inevitably is taking out of the out of the hands of the point guard. You need guy who are capable three point shooters consistent three point shooters. That's where K. D. Four career shooting forty two point three point line around there his marksmanship from the outside combined with his ability. To be like that Scottie. Pippen that point board that can pass get people involved in a place you can put him on the pinch block just like Jordan. He can hit turnaround. Beta ways that that skilled arsenal of what Kevin Durant and Michael Jordan will bring together and also Katie. Loves MICHAEL JORDAN? That FIERCE COMPETITIVENESS. That they both have. I'm not saying Lebron James Camp. It just say Stephen A. I'm with you the pieces workout much better for Kevin Durant and I think Lebron James in that system. Well I want to bring this up because you brought this up the other day about the triangle. Speaking of Michael Jordan speaking Phil Jackson back in the day. When you're just covering the league the way that I did speak in the Kobe guy rest his soul on many occasions about this all of them made it a point to educate me about the triangle. In this regard they talked about the triangle and they said the triangle was about movement. It wasn't necessarily about getting it out of the marquee players hands. It was about taking place all over the place folks touching the ball but still in the end when someone needed to have the ball. They had the ball. You can move all you want. But it's still ended up in Michael Jordan's Shaquille O'Neal played in the triangle and he would dominate the three quarters but in the fourth quarter who add the ball. It was Kobe Brian. So this notion that the triangle took the ball out of your hands isn't necessarily correct this twenty four seconds on the shot clock multiple people would touch it to feel involved to to make defenses work more than they wanted to but in the end those who needed to have the ball have the ball. I had a little bit Stevens art from who use out in the ball in his hands. If I were to pass the ball to the pinch post I run to the corner. Depending upon the next cut won't see the ball for another six or seven seconds in that shot clock so the system is designed perfectly for guy. If you're an elite score a like a Kobi or Michael and ice ituen of saying okay. That's what they were saying days. Nps were saying how about this and we didn't. We didn't bring this up because we're talking about Lebron or K. D. With Kobe. But you saw how the triangle work as you guys mentioned. They ran a. Lotta picket role to Kobe. And Shack will give Jordan someone like Elijah or because he was better passer. Tim Duncan and run the triangle with Jordan. And one of those guys impossible. That's impossible what do you do? I feel okay. There's just one other thing I want to show you guys a little boxing stuff that I think you're gonNA like so iron. Mike is making some waves right now with a training video that he posted on instagram where he tells the camera. He's back Max all-star with you on this I mean he looks pretty darn good to me. Do you like love or hate the idea of Mike Tyson. Returning to the ring. I think he's like fifty three. It's fine with me if he returns if he checks out and health wise and everything if you match him right not not with one of these super heavyweights in their prime but if you take another guy around his size who also older fighter maybe or a fighter of lesser skill and you match them in an entertaining fight. If that's what Mike Tyson wants to do with his life and he checks out medically good for him. Well Max with all due respect non-answer because the reality is if he would have come back now it wouldn't be against somebody else that's fifty years old. That's in a professional boxer. He talking about. If you're going to say I'm back. He talking about now and I just think Max. This is just me the super heavyweight that exist now where you got guys. Thirty forty fifty pounds title series was forty x deontay wilder. I can't do that so mike. Tyson is greatest phenomenal anybody. He can hurt but in the end. I don't like the fact that everybody every other weight. Division gotta come closer wait Jay and Max but a heavyweight. You could be forty pounds. Heavier didn't guy you fight and that's never made sense to me. I don't like that plus he's old. Just come on home with the rest of us. We all now Mike Tyson. This is Max. I just don't want to see him like Max. I WanNa see him tarnish his legacy at fifty three years old. I mean he had. The video was a great and his hands and he's agility is still off the charts. I mean he is but the comeback in today's age the kind of I don't WanNa see that happen to mark look by the way Molliems and by the way my Malalai highlight Max. Yep We don't show a highlight of Trevor Berbick. Can we show him fallen and then getting up falling again and getting up Informat Agai- four? Mike Tyson was twenty years old when he fought. Trevor Berbick fifteen seventeen years ago. Whatever it was he lost to Danny McBride. And and who else was it. A ten McBride Rather Danny Williams and Kevin McBride if titular lost like six of his next eight fights and the reason Tyson lost to those guys when he was much younger than he is now what ended his career was it. They were bigger than him so at that age he was already old fighting a bigger fight. I mean this is fifteen seventeen later. You got to put them in with a small heavyweight. Who's not that great and he can. We all have some fun. If he checks out done conversation I in years to watch anything. We Watch tournaments and people back now. I don't care if a wheelchair.

Coming up next