Mindset Shift at 40 to Start Real Estate Investing with Derek Tellier
This is real estate. Rookie show number twenty six. I still struggle every single day wake up forty something years worth of mindset that I need to get past and you can tell yourself that you're gonNA turn that off and you're going to change it doesn't happen overnight. It's like anything else. You've got to keep repeating it and practicing it. My name is care and I am here with my beautiful co host believe Bay may He wasn't that Nice? Really Nice. I was like Oh, my god I wonder what she's GonNa tear me up on now. Actually I just realized that we haven't caught up our listeners personal life. So let's talk about your real estate investing where you at what are you doing? Are you dating these days you talk about personnel who? Are. Investing. So I actually am closing on a refinance this week, it is up portfolio so to properties. And I am pretty excited about that. Cool. Have a a single family under contract that has like a garage slash barnes slash shop that has a one bedroom apartment that needs to be attached to it. So a close on the end of September and what did that cost seven thousand dollars is What are you paying for properties? Nowadays One, hundred, twenty, two, thousand. So expensive for me. I really excited for it, and then I am trying to buy a campground. Oh, fancy you I know it's like exciting by also nerve wracking. Yeah absolutely. Well, I said personal life because I feel like do we have personal life is real investors aside from our family it's. Probably. That is a personal anyways. So on my end, we have I actually have a flip going on with one of our interviewees that we did in the past. Can you guess who it is? I've seen it on instagram. So I already know it is RV day. Dean off the top of your head what rookie episode they were on. I can't remember but I know that we connected after the show they live in. Nashville I love their model. We went out and looked at property we're doing when together we're actually doing staging today pictures tomorrow and it will be on the market. I. Believe Wednesday. It's beautiful. It's a beautiful house on three acres fifteen minutes, downtown Nashville it's a great area I'm. Super excited to see and David, Harvey are a great team. They work really really really hard. They were on episode nine hundred and that's how good my googling fingers are. So if you want to find out some information about that bigger pockets, dot com forward slash rookie nineteen but I loved how you just pitch straight there your your deal sovereign goes in buys it. Doesn't. Know. What's really interesting is the way they're doing it. So we actually had their mentor on our podcast as well. Ryan Dossey. So Ryan dossier actually teaches them what they do. It's all full circle. It's going to be great but that's not what we're talking about today. Today we have a great great show I'm really excited because we have. Derek Derek, is talking about short term rentals in the SMOKIES AIRBNB. How he's finding deals he has a full time W. Two job and this is wild. He has no schedule of how he runs his days. He says he runs his days the way he runs his Harley. Like you stole it I love it. Yeah. He gave a lot of great tips about private lending meet up switch. Everyone knows that I love talking about that and networking. But did you mention that he had what? He called a midlife crisis in his forties and completely shifted his mindset to become a real estate investor? He said that it will be right in the beginning here how his parents actually invested but he just completely. Forgot about it until his friend kind of brought him back to that, and he started working out getting healthier and actually went through a divorce to and made all these changes in his life, and now is just this very successful real estate investor who's done a couple of deals in the past year. Yeah absolutely. But before we bring him out, let's hear a little bit from our show sponsors. This week, our show is partly sponsored by better help. This is a website that you can go on and get matched with great therapeutic therapist. What they will do is they will help you with a range of different things as investors. We all love personal development in what's better than having a therapist to help with that. I want to start living a happier life today. So as our listeners, you guys can get ten percent off your first month by visiting better help dot com slash rookie you guys can join over one million people that are taking charge of their mental health today. Again, that's better. Help H. E. L. P. dot com slash rookie. Okay Derek. Thank you so much for coming on today. Can you start off with telling everyone a little bit about yourself give us a little background. Sure. Let me give you the condensed version as I as I can just real quick W. Two guy I've been w guy my whole life and got introduced to real estate a few years ago and just had to have a real complete mindset shift I. You know my story actually begins back in real estate in nineteen seventy nine when my parents bought a five family apartment. House now, I was just a kid so but that was my first introduction real estate nightline totally forgot about that like thirty seven years later, I, have friends telling me about real estate. They've got a couple of cabins up in the smokey in there like man, you need to buy one of these and I was just I was a w to God, I had a job I. didn't I couldn't wrap my head around it. I couldn't comprehend in my forties and I just can't comprehend what they're talking about with this real estate. So I kind of blew it off can working my job and they'd come into town hey, come hang out and I'm like man I gotta work. So they'd be like you gotta get out of that job. So finally it started with tree real estate I just I was at a point in my life where I wasn't I wasn't real happy I wasn't happy with myself physically so I decided I guess you could call it a mid life crisis I started eating healthier at lost some weight started exercising. lost. Some weight and it's an amazing thing happens when you're when you get physically healthier, your mind gets so much clearer and you see things. So differently in that really happened for me. So I started talking to him more about real estate and then the first big trigger was I went on a weekend riding trip with a buddy of mine and we hit about five states seven, hundred, fifty miles in three days and I of had this epiphany that I wanna be able to do this more I. Want to be able to just get up one day and go for a ride do whatever I want to do how am I going to get there and my mind went into all kinds of please I was gonNA, start a business to do all this different stuff but reached out to this buddy of mine a whoop. It started me down this path and I said, all right man I'm ready for a change what I need to do, and he says download audible and I'm not real technical from. That sense of it. So I'm like what so how does that work? So he literally explained to me how to download audible and he says listen to rich Dad Poor Dad. So I'm like, okay. In everybody's ever listened to a podcast in real estate, not listen to that book and you're like, Oh my God, you picture that when you're young and you gotta learn young when you're in your forties and you hearing that for the first time, it's like Oh my God what I've been doing so Forward, decided I wanted to make some changes. So started down this path I just consumed everything audio books a lot of mindset stop for myself to get my head wrapped around where I was in. You know in life at that point listen to literally every single bigger pockets podcast I started with number one and literally all I did was listening to podcasts constantly running. I'd be at the gym driving turned off music i. Was Consuming Knowledge Education so get through that he got me into running same guy I started running half marathons ran a full marathon two, thousand eighteen. That's about the time this mindshift started and then I decided I really needed to change my life I really wasn't happy in my life and my personal life and a different dynamic but similar story too to what you guys had a few weeks ago with Sarah rate with a brandenburger. I decided I. needed to I couldn't stay in the marriage I was in. So I literally my next step was that I I literally sided. I. Was going to get a divorce and decided I was changing my entire life and it was like dislike huge thing and I wasn't as creative as she was trying to figure out. How to get into a deal about point I used it as well. Now is my reason I can I can just consume knowledge I started networking I started going to meet ups I started going to conferences just anything I could friends of some guy said, get your real estate license. I got my real estate licence store working doing all this I went to a couple of meet UPS started on bigger pockets, and at the third one I went to I told somebody well, if they don't keep this thing Goin' then. I'll start a meet up. Well, the next month they didn't do one. So I started the media. That was late October of eight October of eighteen I had my first meet ups. I've been posting a meet up for the last year and a half almost long have you been doing this research. It when you started that meet up how long before that were you learning about real estate and consuming all this knowledge really honestly consuming probably about six months. Not, not a long time but just dug in and they're did you say what? Your W. Two job was you said you had done it for a long time. Yeah. I've been working Harley Davidson Industry I I. Actually I'm in the service director over a small group Harley Davidson dealerships local to where I am in I'm in East Tennessee south of Knoxville near the smoky mountains. So hanging, you're right next door to me I need to come. because. I lived in Nashville I live in New York for. Years all my all my rental properties are in. Antioch. All of you might own my old house I don't know that. But. But yeah. So did the meat up saying At, going through used going through that divorce as the reason why I couldn't. Purchase real estate. Now that's been proven otherwise obviously, I stayed diligent on my education. So fast forward to two thousand and nineteen literally my legal stuff got finalized on April twenty-sixth on April twenty eighth a listing hit. The market was a Sunday night that was just jumped out at me. I look at the listings. Every single day just jumped out at me was a it was under one hundred, thousand dollars in the city I live in, which is rare in and of itself great location literally two tenths of a mile from my full time job. I went and saw it the next day I put an offer in that night. My offer got accepted the next morning because it had the fewest contingencies on a cash offer offer them less than what they were asking. So this is not two days out of three days out of my divorce I've got my first property under contract and ended up negotiating them down a little bit further during inspections and got through that one. Bought another house to move into that house into a rental, and then then this year at the beginning this year the next big might the next big shift was finding a new career path I really needed to change things up. I've been working all this time making somebody else wealthy you. It's time to start doing something for myself. So a good friend of mine is avery Karl who was on, you know the Og podcast three, sixty four. From rentals her husband Luke. Is the friend of mine that I've known for several years that got me into all this and got. So I've known them forever. Well, avery I had talked about me. For her we know after I got my license, but it hasn't really panned out. So finally you this year I said, okay, this is ridiculous. Areas is literally killing it in the short term rental market business. So I went and met with her and I basically told her it was time for me to come and work with her and she said okay. So at this was march of this year so. First weekend working with her she gives me seven leads now to this point I've had my license for about almost a year and a half I'd closed on four transactions. Two of them were my own. So I only actually had to retail transactions as an agent on work fulltime job. I go to work with her she gives me seven leads since March I've closed on nine I have six more under contract. Dan Rowan all through Cova into exactly exactly I mean. I mean, it's been such a life changing last few months even that I now have so much income coming in from that from a pure income standpoint, I don't need. To. But from a lending standpoint, it really helps to have that W two. So I'm I'm working with that. I'm working with the company I work with to try to find a transition. Hey, Derek. I, can ask a quick question that how have you seen covert affect the market up there in the smokeys I know a lot of people have questions right now about short term rentals in in how it's affecting. When, when Cova I kinda got kicked out there in March things really dropped off we were working with tons of buyers and that's primarily what we do. Every team has called the short-term shop and we primarily help investors purchase are short term rental. I'm mostly in the SMOKIES, but she works out on the in Panama beach area as well, and in March we saw. Big Drop off everybody got cold seat. So I joined your team and I literally had seven leads only one person actually wanted to do anything everybody got scared. We had a definitely a slowdown through March and April may I everything open back up and everybody kind of realized that it really wasn't going to have an impact I saw the cabin owners that I knew. So a little bit of drop off in April but you know really by the end April beginning of May, they were booked solid again, and one of the things I was able to do through all this was I finally got myself a cab and I had been looking for a year. So I purchased my first Airbnb a closed on it on May Nineteenth I had my first guests check in on May twenty second night two nights vacant since that time. That really. I've already gotten back fifty percent of the money I put into that kerchiefs in like two and a half months. What was the purchase price for that for that covered this is this is not normal for today's market I had been looking for a long time but I found an anomaly I ended up buying it for one hundred and forty, five, thousand, which you can find anything. Like that right now, there I could put that house on the market right now for probably two, hundred, twenty five and I would have multiple offers in few hours. Is it because the short term rentals? So strong or is it or is it? Yeah? Is that what it is? Yeah it's all about the people are realizing the market has appreciated in some cases almost one hundred sent out here just in the last three years because. People are realizing how easy it is to manage these things and a lot of the current owners are true vacation home owners, and they don't understand that you can self manage this thing and make a lot more money to get these cabin rental companies out here that charge a forty percent management. Wow and and they're not getting near the reservations because the only way you book through them as if you Google and find bear website. Oh everybody goes on AIRBNB. Now it's nobody takes a taxi anymore right you get on Uber while you're being the same way. So all these cabin owners don't don't realize how much money you can make, but the market has pushed it up. People are now paying so much more than they think cabins worth because I realized that can make so much more money. I want to dig into the short term, rental sear, managing it yourself. What does it look like? What's your system set up? What are you using AIRBNB? Do you have your own cleaner that you hire or using a cleaning company? Would you do for maintenance? Can you kind of break down your systems for? So definitely using AIRBNB? I am listed on both sides. There are some people that will argue that it's better to use one or the other and just really dive into it but I'm using both and the real benefit of of the what's new out. There is a lot of technology out there. There's a lot of softwares that you can use to integrate everything. So my calendars between AIRBNB and VR B. O. A sync up together I use a pricing software. So I go put some baselines and the pricing software identifies what the optimal price for my cabin is on any particular night. So one night my cabin might be one, hundred and nine and the next night it might be one sixty, it's not a set. Rates optimizing everything so that those two softwares helped to integrate everything to keep it easy the cleaner. Yes. You go out and you find your own cleaner I am using a my cabin is small six, hundred square foot to honeymoon cabin. So I found a small one person one woman cleaner she has about a dozen or so cabinet that she takes care of and my cabinet is near the ones she already does. So I got connected with her and she you know I just sent her my calendar I tell her when when the you know when you're checking in checking out, she gets in there knocks out keeps a clean and really i. mean I live close by so occasionally go. Out there to take your little things but I don't have to I mean most of our clients are from hundreds or thousands of miles away and they're all self managing from home. Derek, me ask you a quick question about that. So I'm from Tennessee and I know the word on the street about you know up in the cabins up in the smokies I know that it's a knit market. It's it's very it's very like the good deals go to the people that already live there or that are already investing there. Okay. So I'm going to I'm going to spill all the secrets because like I said, I live down the road and I know it's not all painted roses. So let's talk. About that a little bit. How could someone get a good deal out there? That's not going to already your friends and family and the locals in the area like you said, you got a really good deal and you yourself said, hey, you know this isn't regular and I know that like I said, you know my buddy diego invest out there and he's like you know the first one is really hard to get but now we have twenty but it's because now everyone knows us there. So we're part of this click or whatever it is. Right. So how can I? You know as a listener said Hey. I. Want to invest in Airbnb out in the SMOKIES. Can I get on? Let's say Derek's Well it's it's really easy for us. All you gotta do is reach out because you know we do get some occasional. What they used to call pocket listings, you really can't do that anymore the National Association realtors is kind of put A. Regulation on that to make sure that we're public marketing. So it sellers can get the most out of their deal, but I'm to backtrack on Mine I. Say I got a great deal mine was on the MLS everybody out there had the same access that I had to mine I jumped in on it and like everything else it's relationships I talked to that list stage and I gave her my story and buying it for myself was helpful in that you took action. You didn't sit down and wait for somebody to say, Hey, here's the deal because that's not going to happen. You took action you made the relationship you followed up even offered less than listing and you still got I. think that's. Great Well on the Cabinet I did not offer less than the thing on the cabin. I. Got the cabin I'd paid over list that well she they had it listed at one thirty nine I went in and offered one forty, five with no closing cost but they had other offers they accepted mine I think because maybe maybe she liked me and put some influence on the side of the pick mine or or had to do with the fact that I was on average team. So when any agent from avery steam puts an offer, we have a reputation that we close so that helps. So when you've got a list agent and somebody from her team myself or one of the other ladies team. Those lists agency Our Name, they're going to say, I know this agent and they're gonNA close their Lemme Lemme Lemme but in right there, let's pivot a little and talk about how important that good realtor agent is. Because of what you just said, you guys have a history of closing for our listeners that maybe have one property or maybe don't have any in our looking how important is it to get a realtor? That's Going to close the deal is huge. It's huge. You know first of all, it's the eighty twenty rule, right? Twenty percent of the realtors are doing eighty percent of the business. So if that's the case, those twenty percent that are doing all the business, all the other agents out there no, that person and they know that person knows what they're doing and they know that person is going to help make sure their client knows. What they're doing, they're going to help navigate. They're going to find a solution you know in my full time job I was a problem solver. That's what I do. I started out in the motorcycle business as mechanic I was I was fixing bikes so I solve problems. So I've had a couple of transactions that were a lot of other agents would have walked away from a lot of would have walked away from and. I said, no, we're going to find a way to get through this and I've closed deals that other people could close because I wasn't going to give up I was gonNA find a way to make this work for everybody involved keep everybody calm through the process and let's figure out what works. So that is huge having an Asian got that reputation for making it work your deals are going to get accepted over somebody else's. Derek I'm a huge believer in networking and going to meet up Sinn Zoom calls and all of that, and it seems like you have done a lot of that and you've got onto every team. You have all these people you figured out how to get these deals. Can you talk a little bit about how that has benefited you and what you can kind of recommend to our listeners as? To how they can get involved in what the best way for them to network with other people. Yeah. It's it's absolutely huge part of why I've gotten to where I'm at you have to get off their network you have to meet people for a number reasons, one relationships because that's how you find deals. That's how you find contractors that you find people who are going to be there to help. You to mentor, you is going out there and engaging with other people. So that's gigantic. You know Egypt got to get out there and do it get yourself I an introver- I I am much more comfortable sitting at my house you know chatting on text or on computer by email it was I had to get outside of my comfort zone, start getting up and speaking and talking to people. And but it's made it every bit of difference I get. It's taken some time but I mean I'm two years into this now and I'm starting to really see some huge benefits of people that are coming back to me offering me deals I've built some relationship with some wholesalers. So I'm getting some deals deal flow that way you've got to get out there and interact and talk to people and. It's it's amazing. The world that opens up when you start actually engaging everybody else around you. What would you tell an introvert that's listening to the show that maybe is starting to put all the pieces together but has a little bit of that fear of actually reaching out in creating relationships or or is still an insurer, but just wants to fake it I mean what would you tell that person go to go to meet up you know the meet up that I host is purely networking. It's it's purely about people gathering in room and Chitchatting I also go to the local Ria I go to a couple of other meet ups where they have guest speakers get out and go to something my meet ups a free you know if your local in my area comfortable meet up if. Wherever, you're at. There's meet ups out there go to one that's free and just pick somebody out of the room and go talk to them. That's it I mean you don't have to start engaging every single person room start with one person look one person in the I go out and have a conversation ask them what they're doing they may be. A newbie to two of you might be completely new to this and just thinking about it. But then you'll start talking and feeding off each other star with one person lead that expand and just keep talking to everybody. You can tell everybody that you're wanting to get into this. You'd be surprised how many people are doing it and don't talk about it. I really liked that tip of just starting with one person because it can be overwhelming going to these meet ups and not knowing anyone anyone. especially if they're at a bar or restaurant and you walk in, you don't even know what group of people is. The Real Estate Group. So I, think that's a great tip. In one thing I've done to is I've. Found people online neither the bigger pockets forums or instagram better going to the same meet up and I connect with them first to get to know about a little bit and I've done this for conferences too. So that I at least have one face that that I know to look for when I get there and start there. But you're right once you get talking about real estate at these meet UPS. It's like you. You've spent so much time talking to different people and they'll come up to you and once you get going, it's hard to stop in an already three hours have gone by. I tell whenever we go to a new location in new restaurant I tell the wait staff. I'm like look this is not like a formal dinner. People aren't going to be sitting at tables and ordering you have to stick your nose in there and ask them what they want. What they want to drink said we are real estate investors. So you put us in a room together. We are all going to talk to each other we will starve. We will die of thirst because we're talking about what have going on the good and the bad we don't care we have. Chips. Just bring the salsa look just bring. It will pay for it because. Order. Stick your nose in there and make order because I. Need I need the wait staff to make money 'cause that sure important for the relationship. But it's like if you're going to be a passive waiter, they're not gonNA order you gotta stick yourself in there and go do it. One of the first real might have been the first or second real estate meet ups I went to I went with my friend John and like it was so exciting like I was having so much fun and he came up to me like in the middle and handed me a glass of water and afterwards I was like Oh my God that was the nicest thing you could have done for me. I was like I didn't even realize how dehydrated I was from talking so much and I was having so much fun. That I didn't even think about it. So it was like, thank you so much. But you're right. You're just keep going that you're not gonNA stop to to eat or drink I. Tell people when I post on my from meet UPS. I said this is networking. You're going to get out of it what you put into it. Yeah. Let's move on to your rookie deal does some really great advice he gave Rolin about meet up and I hope everyone is putting themselves out there to do these meet ups whether their virtual or In person I know a couple of groups have started to go back to in person the one buffalo had a meet up last week where it was at a park setting. But let's talk about your rookie deal which one is this. So this is the very first, my first investment property. This is the one that I got off the MLS right after everything was finalized with my personal life. So again, it was listed it was just kind of the perfect thing I'm a believer and you put yourself in the right position. Things fall into place. So everything fell into place on this one. It was literally less than two tenths of a mile from where I work. So going to see the next day was easy. So I it would it hit the MLS on Sunday night I went from showing walk through there was other investors looking at this house was rundown it was in an estate it had been vacant for about a year there had been squatters in it. There was apparently a drug house at some point I, mean it was had been raided. In rough shape, but it was a nineteen eighty little. Ranch House with a three car detached garage, which is one of the key things that I thought was huge for the area right close to the city within city limits but yet private because of the isolated weird location. So I went in and I went to the list agent and I offered they had it listed at ninety five, five I think I offered ninety but I basically had no contingencies on it. I asked for I think seven day inspection contingency no finance continuously no appraisal contingency nothing else and they accepted my offer on Tuesday and she told me it was because they had the fewest contingencies so then I brought a couple of investors I knew out there I brought uninspected I knew out there we look through the house and we found some more issue's water leaks some water damage. So I, started debate in myself you know I gotta get him to come down I. had my other investors saying man, this place needs a lot of work you need to get him down to at least eighty five somewhere. In that range and then another buddy of mind says, Heke got under contract offer him seventy you know or seventy five or whatever. So I came back and I offered him seventy. I'm under contract I can't lose it worse. They can do is say no and I buy it at ninety I offered him seventy they immediately came back at eighty one which I was shocked by and I immediately responded with All go to seventy five, which hindsight I thought about I should have just try to hold seventy I play store on it, but came right up to seventy five they tried to get me to come up to seventy eight I said, no, I'm holding in seventy five and they went ahead and went forward. So I ended up getting a fifteen thousand dollar discount after I bought it had bought this thing with. Private money are used a private lender to actually fund the purchase in my rehab budget. Of course, this is my first deal. So we all know that we have budget is like half of what you're actually gonNA spend because I don't know you know exactly how to control myself on this I had a good friend of mine was a contractor that stepped in to kind of manage the project for. Me It took a lot longer than planned but we spent about five months working on it. I refinanced. It got a at seventy five. I ended up putting close to I. Think I put about sixty three into it so I was up there. I. Had the my private lender back his interest plus his money got it appraised at one ninety. So I got one forty to five, seventy, five percent loan to. Value out of it, which left me with just the closing costs for the refinance I. got my private lender has money back. I got all of my money back cost me five grand to refinance. It took me about another month to get a renter in there and I listed at eighteen hundred dollars a month, which was a couple hundred dollars over market rent for the area. Everybody told me I was. Crazy for listening at that high and I'm like this house is practically brand new. I said I didn't get to do the garage this house's brand new I'm going to get it I had tons of showings but nobody putting in applications, but it only takes one. So finally the right person came along and here I am getting eighteen hundred dollars a month for that place and my mortgage payments like eight seventy. During a job that is greg. How long did you wait before that perfect applicant? Only. They were the first person that actually put in an application. I probably had about fifty showings but I think everybody was reluctant because of the price they were actually the first ones to actually put an application but they were a good applicant and I didn't see any reason not to accept them. So I ended up accepting the first applicant that jump in on it but I mean even after accounting for all expenses, I'm cash flowing Jimmy. Johnson Milton that thing. I think there's a really important key to this story that you said I don't want everyone to think that this is impossible or that it's hard. But there's a key concept there that we get a lot of or I get a lot of DMZ say, Oh, I'm ready to quit my job and go fulltime real estate, but the reason you were able to. Refinance, and correct me if I'm wrong because I might be wrong. Was Your W to help this up? Is that right? You have a W. Two job so you were able to refinance this and the bank saw that that you have money coming in. So I get the DM all the time fleet I'm ready to quit my job I want to start investing in. Real estate like I'm ready to go all in and I'm like the reason you might hate your job is because you don't have a y for it. Right? I. Cleaned construction sites to get past my first three deals because I showed that I had a job whether I liked it or not was irrelevant but I knew that daily I was working because i. was going to refinance a property and get my money back I and I was going to be able to do a lot of things because that's what the bank likes to see. So can you tell us a little bit about how important it West to keep your job during this process of this amazing. Clearly amazing cookie cutter deal that you did. This is great. Yeah, I mean it was. It was everything because I ended up refinancing it before I had a renter I mean once you get a lease in place, they'll count seventy five percent of that lease towards your income, which will help offset any death income you have but I refinanced it before I had a renter in place. So my w two job was the only reason I could do that I had another I was living in a huge house at that point I it was me and my dog living in twenty, six, Hundred Square Foot House that. I didn't really need that big. So I had that mortgage payment I have refinanced that House that's actually what gave me the cash to be able to have the reserves to do this one was the refinance and the first also so I at this point I had two houses and the only reason I could get that refinance was because I had that W job. Let's talk about that real quick is that you had the reserves so you basically did and no money down deal, but you got your money back but you still had those reserves in place. How much of reserves did you have? Like three to six months well, I didn't go I was a dollar amount I really didn't factor in the months but what happened was it started with My primary residence and I pulled about fifty seven thousand dollars in equity by refinancing my primary residence out. So I paid off some bills I had with that, and then the rest I just sit in the bank and I knew going into this rehab that I was borrowing and thirty five I think it was for my private lender I knew I was going to go over budget so. That's what gave me the comfort to go in there and do some things that you know. Maybe a lot of people wouldn't have done knew I had that money so that refinance started it and then you know getting ready to getting being able to refinance back out and get all that money back out was huge because that gave me the ability to go on and do something else. But yeah, that was the W. The w two is the only reason I was able to do any of that. Interesting. So we're reengineering this whole process. Okay. So we talked about the W two job and how that held up the refinance. Now let's talk about the private money. You're you're I think you said you were new during this time you didn't have any history. So talk to us about the private money and how that all worked out that's a relationship from before real estate, you know first and foremost. You know tell everybody what you're doing when you start getting into this and the situation with this lender was it was just somebody I had known for several years. Me was business owner and and had extra cash and I knew he liked real estate but he didn't own any. He just kind of dabbled around a little bit. He had had some bad experiences actually, but I had known him since I. Lived here. So I had known him for Fourteen Years Fifteen years this point. So when I said he is getting into real estate. I'm getting my license I'm GonNa Start Looking for property to invest in he said to me well, if you ever find something, let me know I'd like to look at maybe doing a deal with you and he was looking for a partnership when I found this deal after I. Got Hundred contracts. I went back to him and I said. So you mentioned you might be willing to lend some money or get involved in that where you serious and he said, yeah, why say well, because I just signed a contract on a deal and I WANNA know if you'll lend me the money to do it this is the importance of those relationships and telling people what you're doing if you. Just put it out there I mean, like you said, this gentleman said Hey I want to do this right I know a lot of people now that I'm in the industry that have a ton of money just sitting and they are itching to get more than five six percent than they're getting in the stock market there like I fully bay. If you can find me ten percent, I will fund any deal. Derek what were the terms on that private money? So he wanted three and a half points and nine percent interest but a guaranteed of six months on that interest meaning that I basically, I had no payments for the six months. Everything was deferred compounding interest. So at the end of the day, I was going to have to pay him you know one big lump sum. Balloon payment about full balloon payment with all the interest know compounding on top of it. So we knew going in this is what I'm borrowing. This is what I'm GonNa Oh, you in six months and actually closed on the refinance like two days beyond the six months is about three days outside but again, he was a friend. So it's not like he came back and said, oh you'll only three more days interests he just did that's fine. Any took the check and and I've done a second deal with him since that. So you know this is building and he gave me a little bit better terms than the second one not significant but a little bit better terms on the second one and I'm closing on that and getting him his money back here in the next week or two. So this is the power of buying cash to Dick. You're getting way better deals by being able to close. Okay. So let me explain that to our listeners. Sometimes I get the question as well as sleeping how do you buy so low right like how everyone's paying market value or above how are you getting these amazing deals and you said to very key things cash and not as many contingencies. So you're able to come in and say, Hey, I'm going to pay cash and people know that that means less hoops to. Jump, through with a bank, if you have a great hard money lender private money, whatever the case may be where you can buy properties cash you're going to get better deals than someone that's just buying the regular route and then those connections like you said in telling people, this is what you're doing. That's all great strategies to undermine properties for under market value with instant. And building relationships telling everybody about it because you might. You might have a conversation with somebody who turns out that their uncle, their brother their cousin has a house that is empty. You've gotta tell everybody what you're doing. You don't know where the lead of the deal is GonNa come from deals come from everywhere not just off the mls not just from wholesalers it they come from every conversation that you have ever. So you've got to be telling everybody about it and then yes, absolutely. Put yourself in a position where you can make it as easy as possible for that seller because that's what in those situations if it's a distress situation, what they want is somebody to make it easy on of make it easy. You'll get the deal. I'm curious to know for your Rehab. Did you use a contractor that was kind of recommended to or was a referral since you've seem to do very well at networking? On the first one again, it was a guy I've known for about ten or fifteen years. But this was my naivety when I went when we went into the deal I said Hey I'm buying this house I want you to you know help me do all this rehab on it. I thought he was a general contractor I just I've known him forever I really did know much about his business he wasn't he was he's a carpenter is a master carpenter, but he's not a general contractor. So I thought that I was coming into this deal with him and I was going to say, okay, here's all this stuff I, WanNa do. Go and like a weekend he sending me phone numbers. Well, here's the plumber to call this guy in line this up, and here's a painter call this guy and I'm like I thought you were going to do all that for me and he's like no man you need to do all that. So I'm like crap I had to go pull my own permits. We put it addition on that House I mean that's one of the reasons we got the we actually built a second bathroom. It was a three one. We made it into a three to put a nice big. Deal I knew absolutely. I didn't bite there. By that. Well I said the deal went way too good. So I'm expecting you know somewhere along lines here really soon to have an absolute disaster because that went too well but yeah so I manage through it I was spending my nights and weekends out there doing a lot of the work myself I had some bad experiences the first plummer I hired was an absolute disaster the second plummer I hired came in and do to did a good job. But when all was said and done, there was a problem with something he dared he refuses to admit was his problems I had to bring a third plummer in. Finally fixed the problem. So yeah, there was definitely some challenges and on the next Rehab I did I went with a different contractor and made a whole series of new mistakes with the second contractor. So I'm still figuring that out on playing that by air contractors. Everybody says, is the hardest part of this business and I'm still only a few deals in I'm still very much trying to work through finding that that balance and you. Had said you went over budget on that Rehab for your first deal. Did you have to use your own money then? So yes, some of your reserves to cover that deficiency at a couple of things. I had some reserves leftover when I did that refinance again relationships one of the next things I did I went to a local bank a guy who I had known he was the general manager of the bank's small regional bank. And I said I WANNA, I, WanNa Line of credit. I want I want some kind of line of credit with you and he couldn't do anything just outright. But. I said, well, I've got some cash. What can I do it this if I give you like twenty thousand dollars to put down into some kind of account can you give me like a fifty thousand dollar line of credit? He said I can't go that much he said. But if you put twenty thousand into a CD, I'll give you a thirty five. Thousand Dollar Line of credit. So I gave him twenty grand to put in a CD. Now, I had accessed to thirty five. So I actually used that line of credit as the but the extra that I went over budget on and I really interesting I've never heard that before I've used that I did that on the second one too. So as soon as. Herman's. The terms of that line of credit, the line of credit the CD was a sixteen months CDs he did the line of credit for the same sixty months. It is I think prime plus appoint is what I'm paying on that line of credit. So I mean it's interest only like just a typical line of credit. So really super easy to work with when I wanted advanced on it I just send him an email and he transfers it. From the line of credit into my checking account and you're probably making a little bit of money on the CD to I made a I think I made the CD itself only earned interest for twelve months, but it has to sit there for sixteen I made I think five hundred dollars on it, which is not much but it's five hundred dollars I mean, right? Yeah. Covered it covered the interest for the most part talking about the line. Of Credit I, think that's a great strategy because I use that but I didn't put mine in a CD I just leverage to paid off property that I had. So my goal was to pay off a property, put a line of credit and they just keep reusing over and over and over and that line of credit I wanNA pause real quick because I, know that our listeners wonder how can I use this strategy when it's really important? When you have a line of credit, it's really cool. What you did was you know you put your money and said, Hey, I'm GonNa Leverage Twenty thousand to have access to what did you say fifty thousand thirty five, thirty, five, thousand bucks. So yeah, you were able to leverage twenty thousand to get thirty, five, thousand use that money for what you had to do. Refinance payback get your money back out and made five hundred dollars so you That's great. So you're finding different ways to hack your money to bring you more money. Right? Your money wasn't going to give you five hundred dollars sitting in the bank. We'll put it in a CD, and gave you five hundred bucks and then you were able to still use this as part of the Rehab. Now, let me ask you a question about the contractor that you said. You said, you haven't found a good one yet one of the strategies that I've always and we've talked to many of other people we've interviewed facebook is a great place to find great contractors because they're gonNA. Give you for reviews we had we had. Oh my Gosh I can't remember his name but someone with someone on the show and I'll try to remember before then was telling us that what they do is they end up calling prior jobs. So if I'm the contractor, you're like, Hey, can you bring me three people that you've that you've done work for and that's been a great strategy to find some great contractors as well? Yeah definitely and an s something I've been. I've been guilty of I'm really bad about not reaching out to specific people I got I've heard on several pockets, code, I I picked up the phone and I called fifteen contractors and and I'm not good at doing that I'm good at hey do you use? Okay. Let me try him unless just go. Do it. So I am a I am a ready shoot aim Kinda Guy, I'm just I'm very guilty of riding everything see my pants and so far it's worked out. Okay. But I don't recommend it. You have to have a pretty high threshold for fear if you'RE GONNA go into it that way you buy real estate the way you drive your Harley. Yeah I. Can Imagine? I I do I. I, I've always felt like you know for for good or bad I have a good gut instinct about a lot of stuff when I got into real estate one of the things I would say it's somebody mentioned to me as I might be real estate, but I'm not new to life. So I at coming in a little bit later in life I tried to use my own life experiences Detroit to. Help me through that because most of what we run into is is the same types of situations, just different specifics in the environment. So I use that to leverage that I know what I need to do on a big picture. You know I don't need to know the specifics of the dynamics I kinda know where I need to go and if I point myself in that direct direction then I. Can Get there and then usually I'm lucky enough that I've got other people around me that'll help keep me down that path and I wanNA talk about that. That kind of leads us right into our next segment is this very wanna hear about a key player on your team someone who has helped you through you know all of your purchases and getting into real estate. So call this segment the. MVP The MVP. Let's hear from today's show sponsor real estate investing has the potential to be many things it could be rewarding delivering long-term growth and cash flow. It could also be time consuming managing tenants, downpayments, property managers the goes on ultimately though it could be easier or at least that's what the team at fundraise believes. See fundraisers an investment platform designed to make real estate investing simpler smarter and easier with investments in more than three hundred properties collectively worth more than four. Point Nine Billion Dollars Fund rise is revolutionizing the way you invest in real estate giving you the opportunity to own a professionally managed portfolio of high quality private real estate whether you're new to investing or have been investing in real estate for decades. fundraise has a portfolio that meets your goals and with their easy to use website and mobile APP. You can track your performance and watch as properties across the country are being acquired, improved, and operated via dynamic asset updates. Giving you all the benefits of owning real estate without the hassle of managing it. So if you're ready to unlock a new level of real estate diversification, join their community of over one hundred and thirty thousand investors by visiting fundraise dot com forward slash bigger pockets. That's F. U. N. D. R. I. E. DOT COM slash bigger pockets to have your first three months of advisory fees. Waved a man that's fundraise dot com forward slash bigger pockets. Who is your MVP your most valuable player on your team or someone who has supported you through this process it's hands now, Lucan Free Carl I mean Luke is the reason I even thought about got started in real estate and avery a rockstar agent and getting on her team is just it's launching me forward so hands down I, wouldn't be anywhere near any of this without those two Derek how important are these connections like this? Like someone who is going to mentor push you a little bit out of your comfort zone how important would you say these people are for me? It was critical because I I still to this day. Constantly with trying to figure things out and every once in a while I just need to get luke on the phone because he's brutal e is just like I mean he he is not sugarcoat anything and sometimes you really need that you need someone to just push you. So I needed it tremendously the help get me centered and make sure I was going in the right direction constantly. What would be your for someone who's looking for a mentor? F- like this. How would you recommend they find someone comes back to relationships again, going out to the meet ups talking to everybody and with with Luke I never asked him to be my mentor. I never asked it. It just happened organically and I firmly believe that that's the best way it depends on where you're at in life and what your situation are I mean there's lots of paid mentors out there. And, for some people at Works, join a community, there's some good ones out there. Sometimes that's what people need. It depends on the individual if you're an introvert and you just can't get out there and do that then got cash you got a great job. Then then go pay for program. If you're if you don't have the cash and just go start talking everybody in the mentor, ships will happen organically if you allow them to or listen to every single bigger pockets episode. I have thousands of mentors from that standpoint. I mean, every single episode I listened to I pulled a nugget out of somewhere. So I mean and I and I've gotten tons of those websites and I get tons of emails and I mean I pull something from everybody. I'm a believer in. You can learn something from everybody you you meet in life you just gotta listen and find what that thing is. You're there is so much free content out there to to kind of grass from. I want to ask about So you work for avery do you think that has really helped her become a mentor to you and do you recommend that someone who part time job or even a fulltime job goes in works for a real estate investor and kind of help them or do you think? They, do it for free go offer their services depends on his circumstances depends on what the person's looking for. You know I mean I'd love somebody that would follow me around and help take your some of the stuff that I don't that. I'm not good at doing just keeping notes and keeping tabs on things. If you WANNA get involved, you have to figure you bring value find a way to bring value to the person that you WanNa be around you know with Avery Joining her teen as an agent. You know she knew I had the background and experience dwell on it, but it was amazing that even though I didn't necessarily learn anything by joining her team, I have learned so much from her over the years already the knowledge was already there. But even with my own clients and people I knew that I didn't get through. Her my confidence level skyrocketed to where I felt more comfortable talking to them, and I was able to close more deals just because I was being around her and the other agents on her team surround yourself. You're the average of the five people you surround yourself with kind of situation you surround yourself with those people at automatically becomes who you are as well. It so important I agree I can't I can't agree more. It's so important to do that and and it's like you said I feel like most of us have or have this desire to teach other people what we're doing because there's plenty to go around no one is trying to hoard all the deals. No one is there's so many deals that I can't get in and like you said, it's just putting yourself out there telling everyone that you're a real estate investor. And so in telling people, your goals is really important. So from that, thanks so much man let's move onto the next section of the show. We'd like to call this the rookie request line. You can reach US anytime at one, eight, eight, eight, five rookie to leave a voicemail and we might use it on the neck. So you can ask anything you'd like it's real estate related we might put it on the show I. Are you ready? Sure Hi, my name is Zach I'm from Cumberland Maryland. And my question is I meant I'm looking to make my first deal jump into real estate. I WANNA do my family and my fiance was on board at first but now she's leaning more towards single family home making at home side we have three kids five and under. So I understand respective. But I was looking more towards invest, invest, and then create the home home bog and go from there. Tomorrow. Real real question is what better way you got show that I can either. Still trying to get the multifamily and single home or is there a different avenue I should take and getting my first steps into real estate? Thank you I. Appreciate Your Time Well. That's a that's a one because the first step in that comes from you know happy wife Happy Life Right. So we've got right the family happy gotta do what makes sense you got three little kids obviously if you can find a big enough a multifamily a big duplex where you can live on one side, maybe a maybe a house with an accessory dwelling unit where you can have your house and maybe the garage has a. Little apartment over it is a good opportunity and obviously that all depends on your financial situation what kind of income you have you can buy our primary residence with very low down payment loan and then does your debt to income ratio is still qualify to go out and buy another single family or duplex that you can buy strictly as an investment. So lot of individual questions would have to be answered to be able to get specifics so. Kinda hard to house hack with with the wife and three kids though that's a difficult one I know for a lot of people I think I would tell them multifamily as well. I would I would not tell my wife. Hey, this is what we're GONNA do but I would go the numbers maybe a little bit of education as to why think multifamily would be good and then maybe offer to buy the homie big house once the kids are a little older, they probably don't need a huge house right now I know personally myself and my my my wife and my. Kid where's we're living in one of my very first rentals that we upgraded we're living here so that we can take advantage of the refinance. So we're going to take out a huge chunk of a refinance and then Reagan a by our forever home but we're holding back a little bit right now for a bigger better future later because my kids only three like he doesn't he's he doesn't care. So remember the house as not and I want him to remember his forever home when he gets older when he can remember when we can afford a little more. So my personal. Advice would probably be to go the multifamily route for now I don't WanNa say suck it up a little bit but you know what? What's the saying live like? No one else so that later you can live like no one else. So so yeah, the might be what I would do actually. What do you think? Well, you made a great point by saying, show them the numbers so whether it's your husband wife whoever write it down and them how much you'd be saving or how much that extra unit would be paying your mortgage down. So how much extra cash you'll? Actually be saving for that forever home my husband and I. We lived in his grandma's old house for free for many years. I, mean my we lived there until my second was born and then we built our house and if we wouldn't have had, you know done that and built a house right away or bought a house right away. We wouldn't have been able to save for the House that we wanted. So I definitely think it's worth the sacrifice, but it is hard to to get to that mindset because even for me like that second child I'm like, okay, it's happening. Like and I wasn't a dirty started real estate investing to is so it wasn't like I wasn't even into it. So I understand as a mom and a wife of wanting that house sooner rather than later. But once you actually sit down and look at the numbers I think that it's more of a visual and select look at what we can have in five years. If we wait that long, you know the multifamily doesn't have to be anything bad you. Can still live in one unit of beautiful with granite counter tops whatever, and then you run out the other side it doesn't mean you're living in a very basic small apartment. They're huge multi families, and if you have a multifamily that you fix up while you're living a really nice one, you can live really nice in a multifamily and then rented out for top dollar. When you leave because you've literally like you said granted tops, you know the good stuff so. Show the numbers and say, Hey, this will rent for this amount and we're gonNA live really nice while we're here. So yeah, I think. Finding plaques with a unit. That's. What Nice you lived there for a couple of months while you re have the other unit to lower, however you want it while your spouse wants it then move into that unit and then you can either rehab the other one or just rent out as this. That's what I would do. I do regret all the time that we didn't like house heck I mean I guess we lived in paid off house, but the fact that we didn't live in a multifamily or anything like that. In my story is is what not to do I mean when we moved out to to the side of Tennessee, we bought the biggest house so we could afford this was two thousand and four. I. Mean I never should have gotten approved that mortgage but that was two thousand and four when they were just giving things away I had basically a one hundred percent mortgage on this how on that House that I bought and we didn't have money to do. Anything I mean before I started real estate refinance. I had nothing in the bank. We lived a month to month. I didn't have any credit card decks I was smart enough coming up to know that you don't do that. I used my credit cards even then to make me money but we had nothing to show I had no savings I mean if something catastrophic happened three four or five years ago I had nothing to back me up and you know that was. A scary time to come into as you're in your forty. So for anybody younger out there and you're having trouble getting somebody, show them that the what can happen. This is much smarter situation so that when you get you get up into your thirties forties, how much more secure you are, and you have more freedom to do things when your kids are a little bit older I missed out on all that my daughter was nineteen is nineteen years old now and when. She was growing up I was hardly ever there because I was working fifty, five, sixty hours a week cost. So you can if you listen to those stories and don't do that to yourself, do the smart things now Derek Lemme ask you not even to say you have money. It's nice that money to do stuff like that. What about the the weight off your shoulders the the relief of not having to worry if something did happen, you don't have the funds for. To me that is like the biggest mindset is thinking in focusing on that. Yeah that's absolutely I mean that's where I'm at. Now at this point I feel so much better because I know if if something does happen to my daughter, I, you know my parents are you know getting up there I mean if something does happen I know that I'm GonNa position now that I can take care of anything that comes up and that's and that's a really good feeling to have that I did not have for very long time and I, wish I would have figured it out. Sooner. So I could have had it sooner, but you know you can't. You can't go back in time you know the best time to plant trees twenty years ago. Second best time is right now real estate investing the same thing I didn't do it twenty years ago. So I'm just going to do it now and I'm GonNa, do it as quick and as as fast as big as I possibly can right now because I've got a whole lot of time to make up for so I'm trying to. I'm trying to move quickly while still staying within somewhat of a comfort zone, I try to tell people that ask me about real estate when they're like, are you scared that you know toilets going to break or the two o'clock in the morning caller all this and I'm like well, look if your systems in place you're going to be fine. Those calls are going to happen I promise. But do you want those calls to be going to you or to someone else in that? Do you want to own the property or do you want someone else to own the property twenty years are GonNa pass whether you invested in real estate or not? Whether you bought that House that you've been analyzing or you didn't twenty years they're gonna pass an either someone's GonNa be paying that mortgage down for someone else or tenant is going to be paying down that mortgage for you. So I think it's really important like you said, get started immediately start growing that equity in those houses. So thanks that answer Derek you know all the nuggets in this in this interview so far have been fantastic ring. They have tons of show nuts, but we're going to be moving on a little bit more to couple random questions that we have for you. Just to get to know you a little bit better as an investor what it is, you do kind of things like that. So we're going to ask you a series of four questions and we're going to go from there. Actually. Do you WANNA go ahead and ask the first one? Yes and I'm actually not going to take one off the list. I wrote it down earlier when Derek was talking I, want to know about your time management how do you manage your time? You have your W. Two you self manage your short term rentals you're a real terror do have a daughter what You're running you're working out you're eating healthy. Do you have any time management tips that you can give all of us? Have the worst advice ever on this God. None I have I, I live. So seat of the pants I just go through and do whatever works for me in the moment I mean Yeah I keep appointments in my phone I run in the mornings when I'm when I'm going to get my run in it's always in the mornings I can get it out of the way I get up. Early to do that, I mean, I have somewhat of a schedule I do have a W. Two job. So I keep a notebook and I keep appointments in my phone but so much. That's my biggest flaw is I really need a productivity coach somebody to teach me how to be more efficient with my time because yeah, I'm horrible I am absolutely. Are. You the type of guy that just does it as it comes up or you procrastinate because I think that might make a difference as why you? Yeah I tend to well a little bit of both it depends it depends on the reward, right? If I think it's I think it's a high reward situation I tend to do it now and you know a lot of consuming all this knowledge. One of the books that I consumed on an audio book was eat that frog by Brian Tracy, which basically talks about that whatever it is the biggest pain in the butt you gotta deal with just do it and get it done right out of the gate. So I've tried to adopt that mindset. If there's something I really don't WanNa do I just need to do it and get it done, right? Away, if it's something with not even really the biggest for board or something that you like to do. Yeah. So I think that was what has made a big difference done and then do keep list I have a notebook and keep a list of to do list of all the kind of things I need to do, and then I just keep going back to it and something stay on that list for a week because they're not that important and I know I can get to him some things I know I just need to knock out every day and some things yeah. I procrastinate horribly on and realized I really should have gotten sooner so yeah. I'm not good at that. I think you just gave advice right there. Derek might turn over the next question all right I want to know what your top three books are. So again, I think books come down to where you're at in your journey in your life. So the top ones that I come up with was a hit me the hardest the big leap by Gay Hedrick that was a huge one for mindset to help me to understand you know wh-why hours where I was at in my life and what I was doing to hold me back another huge one was extreme ownership by Jaakko Wilmington. To understand, just take it just own it and make it yours don't worry about anybody else did. Everything is your fault. Everything is your responsibility just fix it the last one I can't pick one book but anything by Ryan Holiday I am a huge Ryan holiday fan and again all these come down to mindset for me the education aspect of learning how to do rentals all that stuff was good. But I couldn't none of that data would have done me any good if I couldn't get my head straight to understand you know how to actually view things in life. So you know ego is the enemy obstacles the way or anything by Ryan holiday I listen to his podcast daily Stoic daily I read his book daily Stolac. Daily Do I really enjoy it. I love that. Introduced me I read meditations I'm really I'm that's helping me because I still struggle every single day wake I got forty something years worth of mindset that I need to get past and you can you can tell yourself that you're going to turn that off and you're going to change it doesn't happen overnight it's like anything else you gotTa keep repeating it and practicing it so I have to remind myself every single day to keep moving in the right direction. So based on that. My next question will be what is your morning routine I get up between six, thirty and seven typically I run four days a week. So I was trying to get some exercise out in the morning. I do not look at my phone until nine a m That's that's just I've made that my habit over the last six to eight months or so. So I get up. I exercise eat some breakfast get ready for work. Again, I got the W. Two jobs several days a week. So on those days, I'm going to work on other days on following up with clients and then just than the rest of my day is reactionary to what clients calling me what's happening at work can just deal with it. But yeah exercise is the most important thing for me in the morning. Derek can our listeners find out more about you You can reach out to me email at Derek at the short term shop dot com or Derek there until you're dot com either one go to my phone social media wise I am I haven't instagram account have a twitter account I have a link in account, but I do not really pay attention to them very much. I am pretty active on Facebook I. Don't host a lot but I'm on there a lot. I do post in the new rookie. Pages when I can every Saturday morning after my long run, I, do a short little mindset video immediately after doing an eight mile run I, pull out my phone to facebook live just trying to share some piece of nugget. Those are the best. Personal pates that's on my personal facebook page. I do have a couple of business pages and I always share to my realtor page page for my meet up. So I I share at the both of so it gets out there. Yeah. I look forward to seeing that maybe we can post linked to that too in the show notes you guys will find the show notes at bigger pockets, Dot com forward slash rookie twenty, six today he believe it's already been twenty six episode. Listened to every single one. Yeah that's awesome. Thank you. Well, thank you so much for coming on today Derek I in from short term rentals to doing your first deal to private money I. Mean there was a lot of valuable information on your so many layers of my story that we didn't even touch on. I couldn't pack talk for two hours about some of the stuff I've been through. So yeah. Anybody's welcome to reach out anytime. I love talking real estate with. That's awesome. Maybe we'll have to do a facebook live in the rookie group with the time. There you go. Absolutely. Yeah. That'd be cool. Okay. Well, thank you everyone for joining us this week I. AM Ashley at Wealth From Rentals, and he's clearly at the li-pei May. R. E.