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Support for boston. Public radio comes from spring consultant. Group offering employee benefits administration compliance communications and more for companies in need of hr assistance or working to reinforce their benefits program. Spring group dotcom ahead on boston public radio. Dennis whites legal lasted about thirty times longer day. Ten years police commissioner. Now that acting their kim genius fired him. Will she tap another commissioner next movie. But what does this mean for marty walsh. Gbh at city hall reporter sara. Winter smith joined us then. Sports authority trying to correct joins us on golfer. Jon rahm paying a multimillion dollar price for not getting vaccinated and more gender bias in the nc double a. Being exposed equities in our criminal justice system in our election process but the adaptations that we made to accommodate covert restrictions. Could be a blueprint for long term fixes. Cow road to the aclu to talk about how we can use this as an opportunity to not go back to the status quo. That more heaven boston. Public radio eighty nine seven. Gp h listen to public radio. Eighty nine seven gp h. Good morning. jim either marjorie excellent so after a prolonged legal battle as you know yesterday acting their kim janey fired police commissioner for a day. Dennis white joining us to retrace the winding road that got us to this point and a look at what janey n. Whites next moves are a winter. Smith's recovers city hall for gbh news. Read thanks for joining us. Appreciate easy for me to say. Isn't it hey. Thanks panic to the show. I should say thank you very much for joining us. So is jim just said a mere janey fired boston police commissioner down white. So now what happens. Is she going to be able to acting mayor to pick a new commissioner. Who's going to be what happens to white. Give us the update. You know it's been so convoluted up until this point. And i think that white going to the courts kind of tempered genie's language around her next moves you'll recall that just about a month ago. When white i filed his court case in suffolk superior in that noticed to white janey listed her reasons she said. I'm going to fire you. An white said that. A police superintendent called him and said hey. I'm going to be the next person i think that. Because white's attorney in that initial filing said a hearing where a conclusion has already been reached is not much of a hearing at all since then. We've seen the acting mayor kind of track. She's maintain hints that the boston police department needs to move in a different direction but even yesterday at the press conference when she was asked directly about what her next steps were and one of the reporters mentioned. Hey we see multiple outlets reporting that superintendent nor baston will be the next cake. Jenny said i never said that. You're she wasn't very careful with us Unlike what she has the press comes with us the day before the and at the same time that she said she had open mind was gonna listen to what happened in the hour. Long hearing she then proceeded to talk about the process for selecting the next commissioner. Which sort of says it's a foregone conclusion. In the thing she wouldn't answer for us. We as repeatedly suray. Maybe she answered it yesterday. At least more directly was there's a legal debate about whether or not a an acting. Mayor has the power to appoint a permanent police commissioner. Anyway that she gave any hint as to whether or not i know she discussed the process. Did she discuss at all whether she thinks she has that power. Yeah no. we didn't hear anything about what she thinks are the limits or lack of limits on her power. I will say that. She's made cabinet appointments before. And i think when she was on with you all last week she said the police. Commissioner is the only cabinet official that requires is hearing and this notice and this 'cause And she's made appointments seemingly permanent appointments for cabinet officials before so i think if history is any indication of what she may do it. It hasn't stopped her from making appointments. The four so white is not going to go quietly. It appears i. I assume even though his lawyer said Were looking at every option He didn't say specifically they were gonna end up back in court but they're gonna end up back in court correct. They are going to end up back in court. I think late in the day whites attorney did a hint that he would try to modify the case that they had in suffolk superior court. He said they will make civil rights claims attached to that case jim. I'm not a lawyer. I don't know if he's allowed to do that as of right. Or if a judge has to grant him permission to amend the case that he's already filed but you're right he's not going to go quietly and we're expecting that this will continue to drag on well. I'm so glad you mentioned this civil rights. I was unaware that he said it yesterday. Because what was striking to me. Was that the hearing part of what dennis white said. He opened his statement by saying. I'm a black man. And i'm paraphrasing. Essentially being railroaded. There's no process. This has been going on for centuries meaning to black men and yesterday right after. Kim janis decision mr carter. His lawyer said the exact same words my clients a black men etc is there and so it seems to me. Part of what they're contending is he was treated like this and fired in part because of the color of his skin. Have you spoken to anybody who thinks that anything that has happened to dennis. White from the mayor's office was racially motivated. No i haven't all of the establishment sort of power broker types that i've talked to have said why is really just a casualty of this reform pro reform climate right now I think that state rep russell homes and even in the case of seven mayoral candidates who shall woo. We heard them say that in a good world in a perfect world there would have already been betting and a commissioner. Dennis white either would have already had to address is domestic violence allegation his past or maybe whitten even have risen to the level of command staff But now as boston is looking towards reforming police personnel and reforming policy and reforming funding. That means that the way that the commissioner is chosen is also going to be looked at an amended. We're talking to sarai went to michika rec- hoffer. Gbh news right. I'm wondering this isn't city hall but it used to be city hall marnie white the former mayor. Marty walsh gives me the former former man he has. He has reiterated again this weekend that he did not know about the allegations involving jenness white Bill evans who was the commissioner with marty. Walsh said he didn't know about these allegations. what happens now with with with waltch and his his job. I think that that depends on what kind of case white ends up pursuing right. It'd be goes before a jury and a judge and they're calling witnesses and it devolves into more drama than it's possible that walsh could be called on to testify. You'll recall that. Rachel rawlins was on with you guys and said you know as an attorney she has to take very seriously someone sworn statements under pains of perjury vs someone to say. No that never happened but that could change. If a court case ended up developing and she was referencing willie gross former commissioners assertion. That marty walsh did no and the reason that's relevant for people trying to figure what's the difference. The argument that that whiten lawyer are gonna make or have made is if marty walsh didn't fact know about the domestic violence allegations at the time that he appointed him then it's at least according to them a lot harder for a for the successor at least the acting successor. To mayor walsh to fire firearm. So the bottom line is that this is not the end of the janey whiteside saga but yesterday is sort of of the new round seru. That's right that's right. It's a new chapter and just your point about what. Could happen with the relevance of walsh. Knowing i have spoken to a labor attorney who said not with specificity to this situation but that if an employer did know about things and an employee's personnel file at the time of their working and then suddenly they are fired with the reason that was known it does cast a bit of doubt on the employers given reason for the dismissal but that is not necessarily illegal. Sir thanks for taking the time to be with appreciate coverage of this. Yeah hey thanks so much for heavily. Me guys thank you. That was the voice of suray winter smith. She covers city hall for gbh news. You probably heard it on the news. Talking about this case Coming up we're gonna open the lines and asking you if you are losing. Trust in the state and local police as scandals pile off listened to eighty nine seventy ph boston public radio looking back to boston public radio. Jim brady and marjorie. And if you're doing in we're talking to gbh's serreyah. Winter smith about police commissioner. Dennis white getting fired yesterday. It's just one scandal sadly among others. There's the molestation charges against longtime police union head and cop. Patrick rose now this massive overtime fraud. We read about in the globe yesterday with the city. Cops state cops. They'd cops have their own overtime fraud issue we're taking your calls asking is always a cumulative effect on your trust and law enforcement and if it is what do we do about this. I mean it is not healthy for there to be this lack of trust than concern that there's corruption that the leaders are engaged in horrible things. Domestic violence child molestation again allegations at this stage. If if that trust connection is broken by the way this is on top. This is not a boston. This is national on the racial divide. That has been created After the the serial killings of mostly young black men but black women to buy cops across this country. How do we fix that relationship. And do you trust your local law enforcement. I mean bill. Evans us to tell us when something horrible happens in law enforcement could happen in minneapolis and saint. Louis it can happen in california. It trickles down onto every single police force. Even if it didn't happen there but a lot of bad things are happening. Right here ripen. Eath wanna know what your reaction is through at eight seven seven three zero one eight hundred nine seven again. This is not just for people live in boston. But for people within the sound of our voices who are hearing the taint that sadly is being visited on police forces because of the behavior of people like the alleged behavior of people like white. Patrick rose and these guys and women who think it's finest the'll wanna come over time we've been. We've been hearing all this year. How african americans have a much different view of the cops and might americans and african americans have long for good reason Been worried about the cops scared of cops telling their sons. Keep your hands wheel when the cops pull you over having the talk all those kinds of things and obviously white americans are suspicious for much different reasons because they are wondering if the police officer pull over is someone who has been cheating on his overtime. I mean that's basically what you which is thinking of child molester. Rose was allowed back out to hand. I know cases involving allege. Did you watch the obama interview on cnn last night. But there is a couple of moving segments were obama's been working with some young black kids now young black men will some of them are still kids in chicago and he asked him about the police. Former president obama. There was a guy who talks about how he took a circuitous route to get to Either i think it was school because he was so scared of the cops he would say to his mother wife or somebody assist there. He was worried they wouldn't become an. I mean every single one of them telling the same kind of story so for a whole variety of reasons. That relationship is broken. And we want to know if you're feeling it and if you have a way to begin fix let's go to john j p your first on boston public radio. Thank you for calling hi mark. Hey So i just i just like to say on the criminal defense lawyer. Oh and i've met an awful lot of boston. Police officers and some of them Including my neighbors are And have been excellent and conscientious and they probably don't get recognized for what they What they do every day on the other hand. There's a problem with the way in which officers get recruited and the recruitment replicates whenever the problems are and unfortunately there are lawyers. I'm sorry it's police officers who abused the time System in particular you know police officers can go to be there for five minutes. Yeah contracts requires them to be paid. I think it's four hours. Then they can run off into a detail and basically be paid for not being being taken with the same hours And that is an abused system. And it's a system that you know i as a taxpayer. I have to pay these bills. And i'm wondering why am i paying all these bills. It's ridiculous and so seeing officers who were making Three hundred thousand dollars a year It just seems like this to be a better system. We know what. I've also wanted to bat john to who decides who gets the overtime deals and the details and and is there a pecking order. And i said yes. Exactly and that that inhibits perhaps other officers ability to be honest about what their colleagues may be doing. Because you don't wanna lose those details and over my very very lucrative and a chance to make an extra twenty grand a year if you don't if you look the other way you know. I think we know where that leads don't we. I think the problem also has to do with who who gets who takes cases and brings them to court so that there is a motivation to go to court enter earn that overtime in court and in i've had a police detective or longtime ago in cambridge. Say to me when we caught a kid who did something wrong we might give him a kick in the pants and tell them not to do it again and they go home and he said to me but now you're getting paid overtime. Kids gonna get arrested. They're gonna get a record and the case is going to get strung out and strung out repeated trips to court and just the you know the cash register that keeps on going. Well maybe we're going to talk about this later in the show. Maybe zoom is the answer to that by the way john. Thank you for your call. I know you're concerned deeply about with john talked about you. Talk to me about it for years. You'll mind deeper concern. Is that needs fixing. Is this so called blue. Wall of silence kind of thing. Every time we talk about the cops of late all. I can think back on his report of this kaplan woman who did the white investigation. She approached the twenty one people. Most of whom were cops. Fourteen of them refused to speak to her about dennis white. And by the way if you wanna if you wanna including the current commissioner the guy. That's the interim commissioner one of the ones that would refuse. Is that true. I'm not. I didn't know that was true. But but We lost my train of thought. I'm sorry they refused to speak right. Which is in by the way if it turns out you wanna talk. And say hey. That's why did nothing. He's fabulous guy. That's fine lack of cooperation totally breeds mistrust than it seems to me that if good cops is john the color of the lawyer said a minute ago there are a lot of good cops and of course there are the way to prove your good cops is you have to out your colleagues who are bad cops and if you're gonna cover for him that everybody gets painted with the same brush frankin boston. Welcome to the show. Hi hi how are you doing right. i for two or three years. Now i've been trying to get the police to investigate cry. A certain crime and i was referred to Took a while to get. The help is referred to district four in boston some detectives. They're they seem to believe me. You know they'd ask me questions i don't. This is great. And then all of a sudden i would not hear from them anymore. You know it was. There was no reason given like oh. We don't believe you or it's too complicated to investigate. So what do you think is going on. I wish i knew. And i and that was one detective and then so i said well i'll try another had some additional details about the crime and I give to the society different detector. The same thing is just it. You know they show initial enthusiasm for investigating and then after a short period. Nothing no explanation. Why nothing it was. just nothing. Well you know. I feel i have an obligation. I'm not belittling in any way with frank. Would you just experienced. But i feel an obligation particularly in light of the fact. You mentioned greg long a minute ago. I just had a encounter with the cambridge in boston. Police were every reaction. Was terrific and timely. So i mean. I'm not obviously you experienced what you experienced. But there are other stories through frank. Thank you for your call. We are aware that you are giradi. Okay fine eight. Seven seven three zero one thousand nine said can i say. We don't much time for this but i want to reiterate what i said before the most important problem to address. Maybe the most intractable problem. The people who know best who the bad cops are who are giving cops. A bad name are their fellow. Cops they have gotta figure out a way to decide that it is not a crime and i don't mean that literally. Well maybe i do me literary that. It is not a violation of some horrible oath to expose wrongdoing in your ranks. When you see it in fact it's the best way to win rank and restore public. Trust certain say when you find out what happens. We know the genesis white case we talked about how the woman that was the domestic violence police officer investigating. This was retaliate. Roy signed so if that's going to go on the other thing is there's this unholy alliance between politicians and police unions that i think is very harmful to To what happens in as you always point out unions get what they want negotiations with someone who agrees on the other side of that to that point of view. And i think they just have to get a lot tougher tom. I would do something. This wasn't even the cops. This is a firefighters. Remember when he didn't likes the firefighters union didn't like something he did. They were down getting in front of the state of the city address. I mean i think there has to be possible. Well i think pot have tougher. They have to be much much tougher. That's got to be critical as this mayoral race goes ahead on the heels of rose and white and the overtime scandals and and the cop who bragged about driving his car into a protester then as quietly restored to the force. Whatever a month or two later this has got to be a central issue in this merrill. The people said that they do not want to support the candidate. That has the endorsement of the boston. Police use some and they're probably candidates who wouldn't want to support someone statewide. Who has the support of the state police union. Because you think well what does that mean what. What is what was the agreement there with between that politician. That union to get the endorsement of that union and whether it's republican governor or a democratic governor. They've wanted that not everybody. Feels that way margin. You feel that way but not everybody feels no. Everybody feels that way. But all i'm saying is that there's some people who come forward and say in their always take do not. They're not keen. And i don't think they have to worry about it. Too much not going to get the tourists with boston. Police dramas association but anyway We are talking in just a couple of minutes with tranquil. Eric are sports. Authorities here to go to the latest sports headlines. John eighty nine seven. Gbh boston public radio. Welcome back to boston public radio. Jim brady and join us alarm clock through latest headlines about sports and societies because their trainings and anchor and reporter for nbc. Sports boston a b. pr contributor and. She thinks she's going to the olympics on a couple of months. Welcome trying to go to talk to you. Sorry to break. Steve jim but i know i'm going okay. Sismi been told pretty even pretty with like definitely that this is happening well and it's really. It's just a few weeks our six weeks seven weeks. Yeah we're like six weeks okay. I mean jeff. As i've explained that you before it is like it's not like we're going to tokyo and i'm going to disney at tokyo and to get a bunch of restaurants and i'm riding on the train and it's a different scenario. We had a safety training the other day. And quite frankly it's gonna be kind of like it's not going to be a fun. Like lay hardy great experience like i have been told that we have to be tested and we can't get tested like how i've been tested a few times of since cases have gone down here and it was lovely because they no longer stick those long like nasal for land. Joel now long cue tips up your nose. Well that's required by the japanese government Twice before you even get there. We're told that once we land our process they will take two to four hours of testing quarantine going through everything being bubbled and separated from their. We're going you get into it. And at nbc marked vehicle you go to an nbc hotel. We are not allowed to leave our hotel except to eat and the hotel which is all nbc employees. Most of whom have been vaccinated. And i will be tested daily. Because i am in contact with athletes. I will be able to go to the venue where there will be sued available. I will be because i'm in constant contact with athletes. I will be mask at all times. i there are. We know gym's open. You are not to walk outside. You're not to run outside. You are not to take public transportation anywhere like it bubble which they've done in sports time and time and time again and i know but the japanese people don't want it and i it's it's unfortunate that it's come to this but i i would be blown away if all of the sudden a week or two from now they pull the game athletes there. It sounds like you're going to say that on tuesday. They're going to waterboard away. It's stay on the stay on this for one second that the story john powers has been covering the olympics. I think about three hundred years for the globe and doing a wonderfully well wrote this. Great piece molly marathoner and you just the opening paragraph. It's exactly like you said no. I won't even see tokyo. Be residing and competing more than five hundred miles north and sapporo. She will live in a five ring. Bubble compete at seven am on a sunday head home within two days. No opening ceremonies know. Touristy stuff you know. I don't want to belabor this because we talk about it almost every single week but the olympics is a big deal. And you know while i d- i wish they weren't doing it but for the athletes sake. I'm glad they'll get to compete. But is someone who who all your work is with athletes. Isn't this a huge part of going to the olympics. Being able to be part of this community that that none of these people are going to be able to be one hundred percent right. Like if it's like an jim to how unfortunate if you were a freshman in college straightness or a c. In high school or a senior in college all of the literal and figurative pomp and circumstance that goes along with anything that is a monumental milestone in your life thinking about people who were planning on having merger you. Your daughter was supposed to get married. I don't know how big original wedding was supposed to be how small it ended up twenty people and there lot you know there are a lot of people who had invited one hundred seventy five and had twenty or ten like bats to me though. I'm an athlete like i said this. Before if nbc. Call me tomorrow and said we're pulling all reporters. I'm really sorry you can't go. The athletes are so going to compete. But we're just. I wouldn't be up in arms about that wouldn't be furious. I'd be like cool. At least the athletes set to go to me have trained so hard for so long an extra year and they can't people keep saying we'll just postpone it just postpone it. You cannot postpone it again because we're already a year into the next olympic cycle so if we could possibly have if all things go as planned. There will be an olympics in tokyo in july slash. August twenty twenty one. There will be a winter olympics in beijing. A february twenty twenty two and there will be another summer olympics. I believe the next one is an heiress in twenty twenty four so you it's not like you can keep pushing this back in. It's just something simple you know. It's not like you can get a refund. You know these athletes many of them are aging. I mean i don't know how much longer simone biles you guys watch jacome believable pretty good twenty four. He's talked about how what she. She contemplated not going to tokyo because she was such a depressing. Moment molly sidell talks about the depression that followed they. Cancel these games. Like and i understand that like it's hard some people would rather than go on people really think that there are other people in the camp of who cares do it. I'm sort of more in the middle of. Let's find a way to to hold these games. That are safe enough for the athletes and that can allow them to achieve their dreams because it is so difficult. And yes like molly said al. I to will be leaving. The my event ends on sunday. August i i am unlike the literal first whiteout odd monday august doing pills go no collect two hundred dollars and i have no idea what that's going to look like so i usually do my interviews like on the court in a mixim but i have a feeling that i will have a bike. The athlete will probably have like a headset. I'll have a mask on. Even if i'm not close to them they will not. I will interview them in this weird sort of alternate universe. It's not going to be like anything else that we've ever seen before but i really truly believe doing everything we possibly can for the athletes to make sure the game solid eric. Tell us about the nfl this this. They're going to haul supposedly race nor ming little thing that in terms of his brain injury claims that they assumed the black players started out with cognitive function than white player. So tell us what they've decided about this. So this is something that You know has unfortunately been in practice for a long time of standards were originally created in nineteen ninety But the nfl in this all comes back by the way to brain injury and concussion right so there is a billion dollar lawsuit and settlement brain injury claims for former players who who rightly claim that the nfl kept trotting out there. Knowing the long term effects of concussions suffered on the football field so when they have now they have this billion dollar settlement and that settlement gets divided among a number of players who have filed and one suits but in order to win your suit. Basically you're a tier. Like how bad did we damage your brain. Mike so bad that you have early onset dementia or alzheimer's or not so bad because you just can't go into a room full of light which i'm obviously being sarcastic And so based on that scale is the amount of money you got but they they tested players on cognitive functioning and the scale that the nfl used was a use of race nor ming which automatically gave white players a higher settlement because according to this scale white players are more intelligent then black players so their cognitive scores would automatically start higher and then there would be a more precipitous drop whereas black players according to race more are less intelligent and would start lower on the scale and so many of them would never even have a big enough falloff to get the money and it's just disgusting. It's gotten so it's not that much. I am so glad you said. I was just about say. Maybe we should be asking. Emily rooney this question not you but you're here and you're in the middle of this. This should be a front page new york times story. This is one of the grossest contemporary examples of racism and are rich organization supported by virtually all of america. It is unbelievable. It's unbelievable and the fact that they know they say that from. Ap article that the norms were developed in medicine to stop biased and testing not perpetrate. It i mean but how does it make sense to me right. And god bless the women that do you know who started. His lawsuit was the wiser. No there who were just dedicated from the beginning and saying look at the deterioration of my husband who can't even fight for himself. Like i am not like the women really came together this and fought for them to get equal treatment. But it's just gross and it's disgusting. I actually i you know i. I didn't realize until i read this. That one of the one of the one of the People in this lawsuit is davenport. Like he played for the packers. I remember ashley davenport. I remember when he played for the packers and steelers and covered him albeit briefly and to know that he has suffered through. All of this has had to basically say you beat my brain in and kept trotting out there weakened and week out. And now you're telling me. I don't get a settlement because you don't think i'm as smart as my white teammates. Who got money like. It does fasting and the fact that just the fact that it continues to happen in the nfl somehow whitewashes over it literally. is is really gross. And i feel like. I'm partially to blame that. This has got more media coverage because i've only talked about in here i have show i o okay. We're talking to our sports authority to keep talking to her after. This quick break listened to eighty nine seven. Gbh boston public radio. We're talking to try there by the way. I'm jim brady and cheese. Margarine forgot who we were for a second. The conversation continues with tranny. So trying to cause nerik there. Can you hear me boost your ego. Can i boost your ego a little sure ahead. Of course every time. I go somewhere someone says. Oh my gosh. It's so nights to see your face and put it with a voice. Because i love jim and marjorie. Dog makes us very happy because nerik beveren loves you guys including me. Thank you very much to you last this. How about you or possibly on the verge of winning sucrose two million dollars point seven one point seven points deaths five. I think both whatever it's over a million dollars and you didn't win it because you didn't get vaccinated and you caught. Cove it on the golf course. Tell us about this guy. Jon rahm who must be ready to shoot himself in the head while woody. I don't know maybe he thinks that it's better than having a five g chip inside of him. I share john. Ron john trump things but so this is what happened for those of you. Don't follow jon. Rahm is a spanish golfer who resides in arizona He by the way has been eligible to be vaccinated since mid-march in arizona Now we don't know for sure that he has not gotten vaccinated. We should point that out. There is a possibility that jon rahm got his first shot or his second shot a week ago and just is fully vaccinated. What did he say. Why didn't he say my attitude is an athlete refuses to answer at means. They weren't vaccinated. Is that a fair rule of them. That's a fair assessment matt's he's probably not vaccinated and has chosen tanaka vaccinated. But i'm trying to be joe journalistic integrity here. So if you don't have that have no. You're not fully vaccinated you have to if you're exposed to it. You have to get tested. Every single danger tested much more frequently than fully vaccinated player. Jon rahm goes to the memorial It's actually it's for non major the pretty major golf tournaments. It's in ohio. Does he has a six shot. Lead on saturday almost assured to win the whole thing and he walks off the eighteen on television on saturday and the doctor comes up and you see him hang his head in his knees and puts his just out of like just sheer surprise. And you think something really terrible's happened but it's thought he has found out that he tested positive for covid and he has to immediately remove himself in contention and from the tournament he can no longer play because not yesterday quarantine and you know what i say too bad so sad catch honestly like everyone's on so devastated his guy feel so bad for really because he could have in his homestate already gotten vaccinated months ago. Something that many of us were clamoring for and it has been available to you since mid march and you chose natural so guess what that's fine. I'm i'm on my body choice. Dow go ahead. that's fine. Do what you want but then you get to suffer the consequences. I am not feeling bad for you. A men i should say agree with every single work and by the way i just wanna be clear since you said you were being journalistically responsible. Let me be semi responsible. One of the reasons we know. I use that term in quotes that he wasn't vaccinated is not because he refused to answer which to me is a dead giveaway but also as you intimated a minute go training. Because there is the rules of testing are totally different. If you have been vaccinated and the pga tour and even a spokesperson while they wouldn't say whether he'd been vaccinated or not acknowledged that the testing that he had encountered that week would not have happened where he vaccinated player on the tour. So i am with you. He chose not to do it. And now he's marjorie hoisted on his own petard. That is bad that you lost all that money. Guess what knocking jabari arm. That's free one. Point six million so great piece at times. Trump is narrow talking about differences between men and women's college sports massages for men doubleheaders for women. Tell us what this David lionheart of peace talks about. Yeah this is great. I love the new york times the morning roundup of all the news and they always have one big story every day. This was the big story. I believe friday so right now. The women's college softball words world series is taking place. it's an home city the men baseball men's baseball acquit. One is always held an omaha nebraska. both are massively popular television events. Both frigging money to the city. Both should be equal. But as you might imagine they are not as marjorie alluded to the headline was massages versus doubleheaders. So not only do women have to not only are like massages and banquet tables and all these things offered to the mail baseball athletes. The women athletes the stadium hosts a championship has no shower some blue. So they have to go shower. Imagine how big its swampy here last couple days like this is oklahoma from like made october. I cool in oklahoma city right now. They have to play twice on the same day. Which the men's team never have to do. They usually just play a regular baseball series that increases the risk of injury and the ncwa Said that they prefer the condense scheduled to hold down hotel and meals. Cough meal costs the men's college world series. They get off days ago. A golf outing free massage day. Celebratory dinner for coaches players and dozens of yet. It's you know instead of members of congress than state legislators trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist by banning trans girls in from sports. Why doesn't this pathetic. Congress address the gender bias in the nc double eight by the way everybody listening. You're right everybody listening. I am sure. And if you didn't you should google it right now. So the incredible video. We talked To turn about maybe a month ago in sedona prince. Who was this great baseball player from a great player. She's a great person. From university of oregon. Put out where. She showed the video of the training facilities for the men's a man in the ncwa basketball championship versus the women. And the women For those that don't recall was like literally you know four dollars worth of waged target exactly is comp- as opposed to this huge thing. It is grotesque and by the way for those saying. Well you touch on this women's softball not nearly as much revenue. That's true the audience as you said is comparable low one million. It's huge. Yeah i've got. I've got the numbers right here. The women's softball world series had one point zero five million viewers the men's college baseball world series at one point three million viewers so almost its approach so they bring in the same amount of television revenue and interest. And even if you want to go more to gates like how many people they can get into the stadium so the oklahoma stadium only has a capacity of three thousand compared thirteen thousand compared to twenty four thousand in omaha but they constantly have a wait list for softball. Today they can easily match the gates that the men match they just choose to not put them in a bigger stadium journey. Kushner great talk to as always thank you so much on accused. Exactly thanks trendy trainees and anchoring and reporter for nbc sports boston. It'd be pr contributor but can no for people who have daughters i. It is really foul coming up. What lessons can we take away from the pandemic when it comes to improving civil liberties. The aclu's cal rose joints for that more next eighty nine seven gbh. Boston public radio. Boston public radio trying to gain. The gaming industry backfired for separate krumlov. Former chair of the tribe was indicted for his. Let's role bribery scheme involving the tribes plans to go casino now. Brian moskvichov weeden. He's the youngest person to hold. The decision of tribal council chair is determined to restore integrity to the tribe after years of political scandals and financial struggle. Then we'll take your calls on how working an engaging from home may not be all that it's cracked up. The democrats are trying to figure out a way. Forward on buys agenda joe. Manchin has proved himself to be an obstacle with his bipartisan. Ultimatum compounded by his dashing. Any hopes of ending the filibuster c. n. n.'s. John king. george talks about that. Kamala harris push on immigration reform plus trump's enduring whole the republicans and how it's playing out in local elections that moore's ahead lost both radio. Eighty nine seven. Gp h much or you can listen to the radio. Eighty seven gp h loc- and jim logan marjorie so covert is exposed the injustices and inequities in our society from the disparities in our healthcare charger. Coney in prison system to election process. That doesn't exactly promote democracy to accommodate. Kobe restrictions state adopted some work arounds made things more equitable cow rose the executive director the civil liberties union of massachusetts says we have an opportunity to not revert to the status quo of inequities. She joins us online. Talk about this and more carole. Go to talk to me here. Hi cara cara earlier. This morning we're talking with one of our reporters here about the situation with the Dennis white the now fired. Just a couple of days appointed commissioner new commissioner of the boston police department We want to move to another issue involving policing and the city of boston. The story about surveillance cameras. There was supposed to be extensive network of surveillance surveillance cameras that has been proposed. A kim. johnny is fired as i. Just said the Commissioner she doesn't want these ext cameras to be extended. What's going on here story. Dig boston story. That revealed for the first time that the city of boston quietly seeking bids For a company that would pull together a vast surveillance across the reason. I'm more than a thousand cameras That we sort of linked together nine greater boston municipalities all the able to access each other And so this request for proposals was actually released by the city. On april fifth and the deadlines last wednesday So when the story came out and and the aclu and other civil rights groups serve raised the alarm about it We're really pleased to see the press. Pause undertaking a look at it and we hope that the either their jamie will either just this bad idea or at a minimum We'll wait until a new proposal. That's in front of the city. Council is house that she actually championed in on the city council de required to have more public participation in public conversation. About what kind of surveillance would need. You know the thing. I don't understand a about objecting to the for lack of better expression. The coordination of cameras in boston eight. I don't know if it's eight or nine surrounding communities. If there's a problem with that which you have an acting mayor janey seems to have. Isn't the real problem. With the fact that there are cameras there to begin with not just. The coordination is isn't that the underlying issue now so now. I understand what you're saying. Cameras on themselves. You know might be useful to at a post criminal investigation or something. What the concern is when you have a real time network of cameras that can track people wherever they go in real time without any kind of warrants or other kinds of checks and balances. You really have a danger of an ability to just Track all of us wherever we go in real time including to protest rally or our therapy session or or you know alcoholics anonymous session or our medical appointment. I'm and so what you really wanna make sure before you have something. That's a network real time tracking mechanism. you would have some checks and balances in place to ensure that it isn't abuse You don't want people talking there ex wives or something but one last thing. I'm sorry to be thick as a brick here if you're aa meeting the protests meeting you're going to and your medical appointment are all in boston. They're going to be able to track you in boston. Going every single place you go. The only thing that this pause the janey is imposed prevents is if one of those things is across the border in cambridge. The boston police can't see you going near medical appointment over the charles but was on this side of the charles. They can write a europe. Can you share your. I mean you're right. I think we need to have checks and balances on any kind of surveillance. Don't recall the time and that's something that aclu pushes for all the time the districts that even broader so that You know somebody in brooklyn contract somebody over in chelsea and you know all the time and again you wanna make sure that you have some kind of checks and balances in place. So these aren't abused For people to you know. Track their ex girlfriends or boyfriends sources. You know fi on their children or their neighbors or whatever it is they might use look of misuses. You could imagine taking place when you just have a secret surveillance tracking system that the public doesn't even know about so that's why we're pushing for is that we have a public conversation sort of considered citizen control of police surveillance. We can make a decision in a democracy about how much and what type of surveillance are willing to live with so just want to be clear about what the us position here is. Do not necessarily opposed to surveillance cameras but you are opposed to to not having transparency around. How the used right and we also are opposed to having real time tracking wherever you go all the time like that right now. Computers are so fast and microchips are so small that you could trust everybody wherever they go all the time right. You don't wanna live in that kind of a total surveillance. Society says a surveillance camera. A crime takes place and say gee. Can i get that. Atm surveillance camera. Because the crimes the key to this really is. If you're planning on slink. Around like you think i do all the time. Yeah i should do it outside. But here's the thing is that i think there is an appeal to these as obviously. That's how we caught the marathon guys as quick as we did but she's not opposing com. Can i just finished my question please. I wanna know how you. Because i think there is a public appeal. There was a rape case in brooklyn at two o'clock in the morning where they had the guy's truck on camera. So i think that has a crime fighting a po. So where's the balance. Here the brooklyn cops can start moving. Yep trained them and the other thing is. There's kind of a misconception out there that somehow things like surveillance tracking and surveillance helped to catch the marathon bombers. That's an urban myth. That's not true it's just simply it's just not true That's not how they recall but even if there are it wasn't elaborate on that i am committed. How how were they caught because that was widely. Their faces were widely projected all over the place camera. That was the product camera right. It was no. That's not actually how they were caught. They were pictures that were shown to the public and members of the public came forward. That's different than using things like face. Recognition technology or face surveillance to track people in real time But there are circumstances marjorie to your point where it might be useful. And in those circumstances we need things of like warrant requirement or in real time you can have a warrant requirement exigent circumstances if there's a crime in the process of being committed And so you know. Our legal system is really good at coming up with systems and checks and balances And that's really minimum what we're asking for with this. Rsp okay. so i just want to be clear. So in the case of the the red truck. That was found surveillance and was driven by a guy who raped a woman that would still be admissible and or what would be the would be the the protections around that right. I mean. I think that's the situation. Where if you have a real time crime. In the midst of being committed you might be able to suspend having warrant requirement. You get the warrant. After the fact i mean. That's true for all the time already today. That's just status both okay That's different than when you have an ability to try people and there is no work requirement and there is no check and balance at all and the whole thing is done secretly. That's where you worry about. The potential for abuse so with the aclu look for is is a check and balance over the uses technology to make sure that his he to keep us safe but not to deprive us of liberty just before we leave. This should be clear. Johnny hasn't put the kabosh on this. She's put a pause on yes and we will see where it goes from there. We're talking to cow. Rosetta the simpler brazilian of massachusetts. In my introduction you caroline the pc road for commonwealth of the title of which was we need a new post pandemic normal of. What'd you say. well you know. I think that there are a lot of things that we learned from. The pandemic one of them is that things weren't that wonderful of ahead of time when we looked at the inequities and inequalities in our society. But there are a lot of new things that we benefited from that we learned from one of the big ones is that we saw a greater participation in our democracy when people are able to attend things like town meeting remotely And so that's why the aclu testified last week In support of bill that has been filed by representatives. These scare lick senator. Jason lewis That basically say that all public meetings has to include adequate alternative means of public access at no cost so that people can participate in real time remotely So continue to make zoom available because we found out that really increases participation in democracy. And that's maybe one of the rare still because before you leave that usa us those say the word include meaning there would still be a requirement for in person. Meetings is just if you could make it to the meeting. You'd have access to the. Is that correct. That's right yeah it'll be an in person meeting for the public officials. They should be able to show her face to face the people they represent But you know it's interesting Salem mayor kim driscoll she actually testified in the hearing that the film's theme is seven hundred percent increase in public attendance. That there's been meetings during the pandemic. i think when people realize they don't have to get childcare or transportation all the things and they can participate in their democracy That they're willing to do so. And so i think that's one of the rare as love. This coming out of the pen is by the way i i. I worry that people are listening to this though. Are saying this is a no brainer. It's going to pass that a minute. The reason it's not gonna pass in a minute necessarily is as we've said a thousand times. We have the least transparent. Yeah government in the united states of america and for those who think that's hyperbole. Let me repeat the brilliant reporting by todd wallich when he was at the globe. We're the only state the only state that protects information in all three branches The way we do here in so Great idea but the assume it's a no brainer. I agree with you jonathan. It's an o'brien on the weak people need to let their elected officials now that they want us. And you know. I think a call to your state legislator or call to the governor saying that they want that you walk this. This is good for democracy. I think it's good for democracy. It is it's great tomography to see your public officials in action. I couldn't agree more. We're talking to the us. Carol rose go to a city council. Meeting your pajamas. That is my dream. I should say your hobby when you retire. You're going to be watching all municipal meetings. I think it's great fun. The comments continues coward. Be right back going to take a break. We'll be right back on eighty nine seven. Gbh boston public radio. Welcome back to boston public radio. Jim brodie madrid. If you're tuning in we're talking to cow row. She's the head of the civil liberties union of massachusetts count. You mentioned obviously the More of us being able to engage in meetings in your cometh magazine piece. Great piece by the way about. Don't need to go back to get rid of everything we've got during the post pandemic during the during the pandemic anyway tells that she talked about so there were two other things that both i think are important. Democracy one is voting rights as the others racial equity in terms of voting rights. We're seeing in reading about you. Know places like georgia and florida texas in iowa all these state legislatures that are trying to push input on greater voting restrictions. And it makes me so proud to just know that here in massachusetts our legislature is looking at a bill called both act which was filed by representative john. Lewis senators. Cynthia crane And this the vote's asked to do that would make things that we learned during the pandemic things like vote by mail and early in person voting permanent But allow things like same day voter registration And it sure you know audit to enhance public confidence in the elections. So i think it's so important that we learn the good lessons learned from that we can burn The voting system in our democracy in a way that permits more people to vote And it's particularly important to do it at a time when other states are really going in the wrong direction And then a couple of other things that we really learned about from the pandemic Was at racial disparities that we see in health care and our car several system where we lock people up Really problematic and they don't keep us safe and they don't keep us free and we need to end it You know the aclu along with other civil rights groups actually Filed suit During the pandemic to make sure that people who locked up who are liberty is taken away by. The state are able to get access to testing and treatments and vaccinations Many of them before we had anything like that. We're able to be released. More than four thousand people were released in. The vast majority were only incarcerated because they couldn't afford bail they're still they haven't been proven guilty of anything they just simply were too poor to make bill And what we found in in a nationwide study that included boston By the national. Aclu is that crime rates. actually over lower It despite the fact that people were being released from prison. So i think it's really important that we begin to burden deep lessons that we need to take a public health approach to the systems. That are are troubling us. They're trying to incarcerate prosser at our way to safety simply doesn't work And there are ways to do things in that we. It's incumbent upon all of us now to embrace those lessons of covid and to do the right thing. we're talking to a cow rosiak carol. You mentioned voting rights here. Let's spend a couple minutes on the topic. That is i think is everybody in. America has been talking about since. Joe manchin rotas piece in his home state newspaper. The other day saying he would not vote for the broader voting rights. Bill would support the john. Lewis act and you know rather than debating is. We've done ad nauseam here. What we lose by not having that the the the larger bill passed. I was looking into this john lewis thing last night and in great part. Please correct me anywhere. Where i'm wrong here is we've talked to you before about the shelby case. In which essentially the voting rights act was gutted by getting this requirement that voting areas. That have a racist history needed pre clearance from the justice department before putting in any new election rules. That's gone what the john lewis akwa do is restore that. But but from what. I understand john. Mansion would go far further and say that pre-clearance is needed not just in those jurisdictions with a racist history vis-a-vis voting but in all fifty states and mike quick. Read on this. Unless you disabuse me this and this is not the forgive. His his his decision on the larger voting rights act. This is a terrific thing is it is it not makes the john lewis bill even better than the john lewis. Bill no now. I think it's and particularly jim. I think what we've learned so the before shelby. This bad decision shelby that took away the pre-clearance requirement that pre clearance requirement was only required states. That sort of had a history of suppressing the vote. But now what we're seeing is in a lot of states in places like iowa wisconsin places that wouldn't have fallen for the pre clearance before now putting in voter suppression bills So sadly as the voter suppression becomes more widespread across the country. We need more widespread protections. And i think having your pre clearance requirements makes a lot of stuff For all fifty states because racism isn't confined to the south. And we know that in the. Let me just expand on this minute. Because i'm sort of embarrassed. That i had spent such little time focused on what mansions position was on this john. Lewis act if the john lewis act as expanded in the way that senator manchin would like it to be expanded. had been the law. Eight months ago virtually every not virtually every single one of these voter suppression measures that became law on the roughly. A dozen republican led states would have had to been approved by the justice department prior to them being enacted. Is that not right. you know. that's exactly right jim. And that's why it's so important because currently under the law if we don't pass this bill so you're right can vote can be violated but and you can go to court afterwards. And say hey. My rights left. November were violates. But you don't get the vote you still don't get your vote counts right. So you lose your franchise when you have a pre clearance requirement which is what the voting rights act has had for decades and has worked really really well Win a state puts in restrictions tries to suppress the vote they i have to get pre clearance or authorization or not in order to do that and hopefully they wouldn't get it. Because in a democracy the right to vote is the most modal the most fundamental of the rights that we have these efforts to take away. The right to vote aren't just an attack on certain people which of course they are but they're also an attack on our democracy itself And you know we may for anybody. Who's reading freely. Because we survived the january six insurrection. You know we are just we are still on the edge of the and these efforts to suppress the vote threatens to take over the this once again so i certainly hope that this bill passes And that we begin to restore the basic system of democracy and the right to vote. That are still under threat in america. Today we're talking to carol rose from the aclu massachusetts carol the us attorney for massachusetts andrew allowing his found pretty. Yeah the former guys pretty devastating in a tweet investigations and says found horrible mental health Lack of care in our department corrections. Toss so i mean the the again. The aclu was pushing for finding different approach. We have learned that when we d a de institutionalization the mental hospital. Back in the sixties and seventies. We didn't create an alternative and so as a result of vast majority of people who are in the criminal legal system. Who are incarcerated are there. They're suffering from mental health problems or substance use disorder problems And not being able to get the treatment that they need. The vast majority of people return to our community to our society. If we truly want to be safe than how we need to rethink what we mean by public safety and investing in public health services investing in substance use disorder treatment. And things like that. Not only just that help. The astros human beings and their families and their children but returns into our society and keeps all of us safer And so the aclu has really been pushing on making sure that we re mansion public safety by taking reinvesting in things like mental health services substance use disorder services and job training all sorts of things so the people can return to their families into our society That's better for everyone. And we've learned those lessons Know the war on drugs sales We know that now But that we have opportunity now and the findings that are coming out about the lack of ability of our criminal system to provide mental health services. Then we know that that's not the way to go. That's what they're trained to do. Like we can do better and now we have an opportunity to do better this story. We came on a while ago that this investigation that found these these mental health watches. It was supposed to be only for four days and went on for dozens of days and in some cases are many more than that. So is something happening now in the prisons were released after releases investigation to something change or was well. I think there's a lot of work going on along these lines. I mean there are a lot of wrongful. Death suits that are being filed. Now that we can look to these reports that come out. I think that there You know just by way of comparison was also a federal department of justice report on springfield police department And the years and years of abuse of people that happened by the springfield police. And then we're we've the has filed a lawsuit asking what did the what did the prosecutors do did. They not tell the criminal defense attorneys. What was happening. are those cases. Sort of like the drug lab scandals. All for seventy five thousand cases had to be vacated. Do we have another problem of systemic abuse that has led to the wrongful convictions of people and the wrongful death of people in incarceration You know the more these stories come out. The more the losses come out the more we have the fodder for finding alternatives and passing laws in the legislature getting financing the court so that we can use the law to create a more just system And frankly in doing so. It's not just it's actually make us more safe thank you. Carol rose choices. Every month she's executive director of the aclu of massachusetts coming up new leadership for the warnock trod. That conversation is next on eighty nine seven. Gbh boston public radio talk about the boston public radio. I'm jim brady. She's madria the mashpee. Watanabe have been in a fight for their land for over four hundred years. Twenty eight year. Old brian moskva weeden has been charged with protecting it for future generations. Last month won a four person race to become the new chair of the mashpee woman on tribal council the former chairman. Cedric cromwell was removed from his post after he was indicted for his literal bribery scheme involving the tribes plans to build a casino in taunton. Brian weeden is the youngest person to hold the position of tribal council. Cherry round on the message of healing and uniting tribe. He joins us to talk about how he plans to do that. Chen weeden pleasure to have you here. Thanks so much done. Thank you when niki suck good day until you you too. But i'm just curious before we start. We know a lot of twenty eight year olds and they're not not nearly as engaged in in civic endeavors. And in helping out the people as you are. Why did you want this you having a wild time now. Why do you want this odd. I wanted this job. Because i seen the need for leadership while we've had too many politicians and so on and so forth in our community in I seen the need for leadership for change. I've always been about the youth and protecting it. Just like dr did amon generations before us. And that's what i'm here to do on my also have a child on the way slats even pushing the. Get things right around here. Congratulations speaking of getting things right around here. This sort of hearkens back margin. I've talked about this forever. There were three felonious speakers of the massachusetts house in a row. And then bob deleo came and luckily we broke the string to predecessors ago before you pled guilty convicted felon the kurt the your immediate predecessors i mentioned is under indictment how do you restore trust and integrity and convince people that that's not the road that will be continued down that started slip the community on. It's the community that needs to heal. It's the community that's been affected by on these bad acts for so long on. I think that one of the problems with our former leadership was a disconnect between them and the people in not listening to the people on. That's something that we plan on restoring through Listening to our clan mothers are spiritual leaders are. Chief are medicine men You know all of our elders on nestle where you know trying to do with restoring the integrity of the tribe and you know just leading from your heart as long as you leave from your heart and you have good intentions. Then everything will be good in working on. Transparency is key in this administration to make sure we rebuild that trust with our nation. One of the things. We've been hearing when you hear about the wapping tribe of course for years. Now we've been hearing about this casino. So wh what is happening with the casino that seems to have been the dominant story in the news. And maybe that's something that should change. Yeah so the casino is something that's tribe has been going at now for quite some time on it started with the former administration in even before then Underneath glenn marshall's administration when the tribe voted to offer sue gaming. I'm at this point in time. I really can't speak on the gaming endeavors because we really need to bring it back to our membership and see this is what they wanna do and they wanna proceed if a community still supports gaming than absolutely we will pursue options. I read a comment from you though. And maybe it's what you're saying now where you referred to. The casino option is low-hanging fruit and said possibly needed a reevaluation. Is that tipping your hand a bit that you're not convinced that the casino is the the necessarily the right direction for the walks. I think a casino is a small drop in the bucket. More talking about the services and other economic development that the tribe can do Casinos are just the easiest thing for tribes to go at However what's supposed to be easy has been very challenging for our tribe and our people. I'm so i think it's best to just reassess everything and see you know what the community wants to do We move forward or not. You know that's up to the people by the way we should for those who were listening to this discussion and saying you know. There's a piece of this that seemed to come to a head in washington. I mean after approval was given a number of years ago Donald trump got involved and donald trump ensured that the approval of whatever you needed to proceed with this prior to you by the way i should say i think it was in two thousand. Eighteen would be revoked and the conventional wisdom is the reason he took the position he did. Because it's rare for a president to get involved is because he had friends and former employees who were leaders of The twin rivers effort in rhode island. Who did not want to see. Competition from nearby taunton. Does that ring true with you. Yes i think that Our neighboring state in rhode island Has not been very friendly to even their own. Tribal people the narragansett. It's i mean you look at the smoke shock raid. Luckily my dad's side of the family grew up in Charlestown territory. On so i grew up with a lot of them. And i remember when that rate had happened We also talk about cart. Cheery you know that is basically the narragansett case to say that you know they were under federal jurisdiction in one thousand nine hundred thirty four and that's why we're trying to work with our sister tribes and our neighbor tribes the northeast because we've been affected. The most were the guinea pigs so to speak. I wanna colonizers. I came here and a lot of these. Same ways have been imposed by the previous president and his administration and we're very hopeful for this new president and administration on especially with the appointment of secretary deb holland. We're talking to brian regan. He's the new chair of the mashpee watson. i traveled council. We should say the pilot who we just mentioned is the first native american to serve and a cash. Right of a president isn't or secretary which brian weeden. He's a new chair of the mashpee. warnock tribal council. You know we started at bryant beginning saying you were twenty eight and and young for this job. But i i read one of the pieces about you that you began getting involved and tribal matter matters back when you were teenager. I think sixteen years old. And you just mentioned your dad and growing up narragansett so give us a little bit of sense of your background so when i was around eighteen I had seen a problem in our community with people around election times like to talk about the youth and the elders and everybody wants to talk about the future generations. but we didn't have our own group So when i was sixteen we started in the mashed national on youth council in two thousand nine. I served this person of that. Youth council until i aged out after i worked with the united national indian travel youth also known as unity inc. Which is the oldest and largest native. American youth led organization. I believe they have at least over one hundred and fifty five youth councils and thirty five states including alaska and canada. I went onto service northeast area representative for the organization and then went on to service male co president and trustee for two terms. After that i worked with the national promising american indians and the i as a youth commission person member. I was a commissioner in the co vice president of the youth commission in two thousand sixteen. I won the ncaa. I and national indian game the socialization and youth leadership award. Wow rose people. In award from the tribe which is given to a tribal system that embodies our former leader massive soviet loosen meek when of protecting the culture and traditions to the fried So i've i've done a lot. Also the native of vote coordinator for the massachusetts from various boards and commissions in the town conservation commissions mental oversight. The town field committee. And also. I've been appointed for the newly established State mission representing more by the way we should say data weeden is twenty eight not eight as it sounds like from that resume. Okay we're gonna take a quick break and then we're going to be right back to keep on talking to brian. Who's said the new chamber of the mashpee tribe listened to eighty nine seven boston public radio. Welcome back to boston public radio. Jim brady madrid. And if you're in. We're talking to. Brian mosque with weeden. Chair the mashpee. One on tribal council bryant. We've been talking In this george floyd blacklivesmatter year. A lot about reparations for african americans and obviously another group where reparations. If he's got an argument to me it's native americans tell us you talked about being evolved for longtime travel activities. What what what's your take on reparations. And some kind of justice for for your tribe and others. I think that when we talk about you know The things in the injustice. That's been done to our people. You know One of the things that comes to mind is is the land of the reason why i say that is because it's always been about the land that's why the original match up and on tribal council inc was established because after you know citizenship was forced to punt our people in eighteen. Seventy in the town was incorporated from an indian district to a town and we have to pay taxes. We've seen a lot of our tribal citizens lose their ancestral homelands and their family. Way and We're fortunate that some tribal members still hold onto those lands and can say that those hands. I've never left their family How ever majority of our town Has been taking and You know we're working with the town but it's on the state to have those negotiations restitution discussing on. What something that i've used on existing hopefully with the governor math The work on some deals negotiations around land Around our waterways Aboriginal rights is definitely an issue. A lot of our tribal citizens get harassed on the regular for exercising their rights to hunt and game on our industrial homeland We paid for a lot of lawyers and legal battles. I'm just to fight for our right with and we're really looking for the state to work with us on that as well Along with other propping issues that need to be addressed within our festival homeland. Speaking of incest homeland. Brian moscato weeden. I was in a meeting several I guess a couple of months ago which started with the woman coordinating the meeting doing what she called a land acknowledgement. And when she was asked what is that exactly. She said it was a way for non-indigenous people to honor and pay respect to the indigenous people who lived and took care of the land where she was doing the event from before the arrival of you know white europeans and that sort of thing it seems that this land acknowledgement and by the way. There's this app for those who are listening which you can go to. Its native land digital where you can find out what tribe it was. That actually took care of the land where you are if you type in your dress. It's actually pretty great. How important is that as a as a gesture or a recognition. Do think. I think that the very important i think it acknowledges the land in the people one of the reasons why we are the mass womp and you know the womp and other originally has sixty nine villages Mashed bi qun herring pond or some of the Few remaining villages and communities that are still in existence today. And where name mashpee after. This place dp means the place of the great waters and when you eat a land in you brief from the land and you drink from the land you are the land and my land. Is you in our language when we introduce ourselves. We say new. Tomas my cpa new tomas meantime from but it literally means my blood and my bones is from this land when you the land of our ancestors back into the land and they become one with land you know and all that stuff when they pass on so you know. Land is very important The from public schools here in our town has done a great and fantastic job with collaborating with the tribe and they also have land acknowledgement posters. That were translated into warmth and screw. But i'll dude in That's a great success and we're seeing a lot of other school districts reach out to deprive wanting to work on land acknowledgments. You'll find you mentioned over and over again in a in Certainly other native americans as well about the importance of the land and preserving the land and taking care of the land and we're kind of in the midst of watching our land and our water get desecrated in polluted. I'm wondering where the womp and are on the whole climate disruption climate change issue right here in our backyard and mashpee. We're actually in the process of you know trying to establish You know a wastewater treatment plant Mashes waters there's some of the worst waters that we currently have in the commonwealth on cape and that's overdevelopment of like you know people like missy berry in the commons and all these developers who you know when they started developing the count let all the stewards and the run. it know. Go right off into our river ways You know the river from my understanding. A lot of our elders say clear. You could see the bottom of the river. That's not the case anymore. A lot of our fish and stuff on here. We have a lot of contamination. And you know so on and so forth that we're not able to get some of our industrial You know traditional foods that we eat this snowy we have to go out there So the water is very important to us You know we see a lot Even here in our waters with the pond our children go in there and they come out with a rash because utterance stuff. So you know. There's a lot of things that need to be addressed as far as global warming You know we're on a man-made island and You know south cape beach. Our beach year is a prime example of the erosion. That's happening and you know. We need to work with our neighbors on preserving this for the future generations. Well you have a full plate. There we congratulate you on your rectory and we hope you'll stay in touch with us. We really appreciate your time. Thank you ca- tabatai's thank you very much bryan mosque. Tweeden is chair of the mashpee. Walkin trap council turn weeden. Thank you again for taking the time up next. Taking your calls asking if you think zoom could be an answer to our work life balance dilemmas. Zinn nine seventy eight boston. Public radio. welcome back to boston public radio. Jim brady madrid tuning in we're talking. Aclu's cow rose a bit ago about Some of the pandemic practices that she believes should become post. Pandemic norms for example virtual participation in public. Meetings is one of them because it would make it meetings more accessible over. The years has come under criticism criticism for dehumanizing for giving us an excuse to opt out of our physical world favor of a virtual one but doesn't seem also gives us the opportunity to be more engaged. We're taking your calls asking. Should we stop a looking at zoom is making is passive and instead think of it as making us more participatory. If he could do more things bhai zoom. Would you be more engaged than numbers. Eight seven seven three zero one eight nine seventy but there's a flip side to this too. There is a. I think a danger of of being too consumed by the zoom way to connect with your fellow human beings and it may limit your real participation the world. I guess we're going to talk about for the next. Handful of minutes are the pros and cons virtual participation in the world. Would you be more likely to go to a public meeting via zoom the end up going to church or synagogue more because you could zoom. Maybe office meetings that you would avoid Eight seven seven three zero one eight nine seven. Why i started thinking about this martyring. I think i said to you yesterday. I'm not sure that it was you that that if eighteen months ago someone a leader in this country it proposed that we have a hybrid society where people go into the office three days a week and zoom into everything else. The other two days a week they would have been laughed off national ridiculous. It will destroy our economy. It's anti capitalism. Whatever it is and it turns out it's worked out pretty well for a lot of people but the flip side is like you and i. I like the convenience of comfort of at home and not having to commute and that sort of stuff but you also get lazy in some ways it does limit your real world engagement with other human beings. And i worry that just like we went from one hundred percent physical presence in the world two zero and then sort of a hybrid kinda thing. I think we could fall back in with thing. We do withdraw further and further and further and particularly in these pretty tough times in this country. I don't think that's a very healthy thing. So the thing. I was really excited about a hybrid life. Post pandemic is actually now making me a little vis. Yeah it is a hybrid. Oh not me. i don't think you could slide into a total zoom existence. I do well. I think you well now if you're doing it only partially if you're having a shot for days but partial could become an additional day amenities home for days a week. That's that's too many days as much as like being home but to be three days a week is in the office in two days a week at home or certainly at least one day we could home. i think. I think we've shown here it gets better. Be in the newsroom. Here physically with your colleagues or talking to your colleagues from your house and then fit with them physically. And so that's just one example other hand on the other hand we have a big work life balance problem and it's very expensive to live in cities which is where most of the work is. So if you have an hour and a half commute in the morning which is not that unusual. We have a lot of workers. How these long commutes you. You're wasting so much time. And in terms of your productivity you can be more productive at home frankly. I live ten minutes away from here. But when i think about the time it takes me in the morning just jay come in to me. My launch to pack everything up made the coffee. Pack everything up. Get the milk from it for jamming. Wanted pretty well for your whole life. Were doing that. You know the fifteen. But i think in terms of my reading the time i spend meeting or online looking for stories. I think i've lost our day. Because i because i don't have that time in the or at least a half hour day in terms of work because you get out of bed you start working right away or maybe take. Your kids scores something like that. Plus the other thing is. There's a lot of for for women. Particularly i mean. I have friends that went to college with the became lawyers. You know what happens to them most end up quitting you know why because law firms y you to work nine thousand hours a week and you're still going to have to work nine thousand hours a week at least be at home working into clock in the morning when your kids are asleep. Okay they have never seen them okay. Supposed that's how long you have to work so let's come apart not that people feel sorry for lawyers. I get that but mortars people who have tough jobs we ignore will acknowledge that for certain people participation in politics in work. Whatever will be heightened if they can do it. Virtually but what you're i think in. Denial about is those of us like you and me who can participate in things in the world in non virtual fashion meaning in real terms are often going to choose the virtual way which i think most of both was sort of agree is less effective whether it's a newsroom. Whether it's at a city council meeting whatever it is so again. Let's put aside for the moment. Somebody's working three jobs. Can't go to that meeting that school committee meeting for their kid that's five. Let's talk about that woman lawyer who want to quit because she can do whatever it is for everybody else. You're not worried at all about sliding into slaugther. Whatever it is and essentially live in the rest of our lives in pajamas. I mean i aerobics. In my case. I am eight. Seven seven three zero one. Eighty nine seventy. I'm not have made any decisions about this. But i i there's a pendulum thing on this. What else now. Shut up is the cost of childcare. That is so astronomical. And i'm thinking that people with young kids right now. There are thinking boy. We're going to save a fortune because we only have to be in the office three days a week before days a week. You're you're making the same point for those who for whom it will provide. An alternative does not exist. It's terrific for those like you and me and there are a lot of you and me in the world. We don't need it. we don't need it. We are choosing it and the choice just worries me. it's all. I'm saying judy in wilmington your first on boston. Public radio welcome. Hi hi thank you. I think your point. Jim was very good that yes. There is a large section of the population that we don't want to become cut off from society restaurants. Brought up you. Have you haven't though disgust. There is a huge component of the population. On the geriatric therapist provides care to patients in the community. They have life experiences insights That are cut off from government and society boy their lack of ability to get out and participate in addition it's also allowed a number of my patients to reconnect with family members. That they can't just talk to them on the phone. They wanna be able to visually see their family members. They wanna visually see their representatives. They wanted to visually able to attend church services but cannot they're just like in anything in society. Yes i think that We need to balance out our approach but we need to keep virtual as an option option for those who are shut in either physically or predominantly physically. I'm really glad you called. That was a great addition to marjorie is list. That is fabulous judy. Thank you much for the call. That's a constituency that clearly for home. We should make this permanent. By the way the reason we're talking about this in massachusetts all these emergency measures including zoom participation. That sort of thing expire on june fifteenth unless the legislature and the governor by executive order if he can or legislature passes laws that allow a whole variety of things to be done a long distance. Virtually it couldn't be done pre pandemic that way and judy. I think makes a wonderful a point about older people who just can't get to these things. Yeah and a lot of group. Things like Different groups people to where people may be going away for part of the time or whatever it allows everybody to join in To the to those groups. I wrote of quit. If i'm saying this correctly from quincy. Thank you for calling tie. Hey thank you for having me on the air sure I just. I just wanted to say that Videotape public meetings In the city. Of quincy i've been doing it for five six years so Lately since they've been doing zoom. I've been sitting at home videotaping the the screen. And what what i miss about. Or what about the regular meetings on zoom. They have the ability to get you to stop talking whenever they want whereas the live meeting They can make you stop talking. But it's not in it. They shot you walk with just pressing a button for second hold on. Why do videotape. All these meetings is for job. Or because your. It's your concerns sake. I call myself then. Wrote a fail and just one person. Just i videotape zoning meetings and planning meetings so if they are going to build twenty unit that make sure they don't build forty unit. I hope you didn't videotape. Any of my years in cambridge city council rodeo. Thank you for your call and thanks for your citizenship. That's so important when he's doing. Because i think one of the tragedies of newspapers demise is that there are reporters they this zoning board of appeals meetings to see which analogous go on rose doing a great service for his fellow quincy is served. Quincy arenas is you know the While we're using zoom. I a friend of ours just texted us and said you know live and live streaming. Is the future i. I don't think we meant. Maybe we came out this way. Zoom in the narrowest sense. I mean streaming is another. It changed the world in the most wonderful of ways. We've talked to a lot of people in the performing arts. Yup who have said things to us like we're getting to audiences that never would have been able to come to symphony hall or this stage production or whatever so. There are a lot to one thing i worry that we i guess. I want us to become a shot in culture and i have potential to be a shot. And that's why. I'm not just doing this in an abstract thing. I like the comfort of the couch. And i don't want to live on the couch. And you know what i mean and i worry that forced out of the borrow a couple of times. This exactly forced out of the borough. That's my bumper sticker. Let's go ape switch carols on the phone. Welcome caroli- hey jim. I'm kinda with you a little bit. Because i don't know i don't i don't to like marge i don't wanna get up and get ready and do this and that and and get up real early. My problem was this. I used to have later meetings in the evening some time. Let's say till ten o'clock at night. Then i'd have to get back to north station where you have a celtics game getting out and i have to catch a train and bam. I get home. I am so out of the world. And if i could go to one of those meetings with zooms great point the amount of time it saves me is just beyond now. That's a good one. That's another good one. Yeah the time factor to we. Tower combines it kind of at the same thing. He's he's very busy with his work. He's i think he's a teacher and he talks about Yeah teacher and he has an hour ride each way to was therapist and he has a good relationship with the therapist and he he can do it now on zoom and not have to drive all that way and by the way. That's another area. Obviously were medical care behavioral health care all that sort of stuff is obviously the access to that is dramatically improved because of the ability to do it in ways that we didn't think we could do it before trust. Thank you for calling fail. Thank you so Jim i your point before the pandemic for about seven years before the pandemic i had the opportunity to go into work. I were allowed to do Telecommuting my company worldwide. And i have a lot of meetings with people in india in europe england Nevada so i'm all over the clock and it turned out that even though i could stay out of the office i went in two times a week. And it might commute with seventy seventy minutes each way But the social part is important but it's also great benefit being able to use zoom. We didn't use it you know. We had teams we. You know we dollar parks so yeah you know. It was to get the connection. I was talking to people about meetings in a meeting. The the pre meeting when you're gonna you come in with your coffee and your donut. A lot of that social part. You miss on for totally true meeting going but at the same time i love zoom because it allowed me to have these you know. I work with teams closely. Directing people managing them doing projects worldwide. And we got a lot of stuff done And it will go down that without having that so well. You know what you're making the case l. for a hybrid world post. I mean you've lived a hybrid world and you're making the case that continues. I have to say. I wouldn't have taken the position. I'm taking here. If i thought that we live hybrid and stay hybrid. I just worry that we slide into a remote existence. that's all. I'm saying because the point you made before that that moment. When you're just socializing with your co workers i can tell you. I think our shows are better. I think our workers better when we everybody's in the newsroom. And you sort of their their ideas floating around that by osmosis or something enter your head and they end up in the air l. Thanks for sharing your experience with us. We appreciate his one from elizabeth. Isn't life hybrid. The keys for companies a treat employees is responsible adults in the judge them on the work. It were getting done as breezy professional and maxed out mother two or three days in his great but what i really need when we're facing a deadline five days in that maybe three days and but leaving it to thirty two cash the little league and that a longer day from home the next day it may seem a little chaotic but issue points out so as life. I get a lot done. But let's not pretend having someone sitting in a conference room secretly stressed out about something. They're missing in their personal life is quote working full-time period close quotas be. That's that's another great point. I mean your kids get older. I mean you may have childcare something until five or six o'clock when they're little but they have basketball games and they have soccer games. They have track meets. And what's what. This pandemic is proved. I think is people do get a lot of work done at home. There's no evidence. Karadzic has fall off a cliff so all sorts of parents. I mean i was one of them. You're either turning group canal every two weeks so he goes to see your kid in the basketball game or you're missing the basketball games. You know this whole thing of face time with the office. There was an anecdote in the story about one of these law firms. Where i wanted to leave your purse on her desk. Everyone assumes she was there which was running off to do something having to do with the kids. Just looking at me blankly. Jan saying i was trying to do with that woman said i should do. Shut up or something and she'd give five hundred dollars. I think i was trying to do a thing to the assumption from your employer that you're selling off all the time it's like the stories but these poor people in the amazon warehouse. They're getting tracked. Every time they make a move and how fast they can move and they're so rushed him. Take time to get a bathroom break. It shouldn't generalize the when is Gbh reopening in september temper. When is the globe reopening. I think september so there to employers who are not saying. We don't trust to do responsible kind of word of mind but most of our guys aren't alive employees I'm a lot of employers are suspicious or agree with watching the see their employees. Make sure they're all time. The line of jeff bezos. Is that what you're talking about. He could be one. So have you thought about when he goes in outer space but whether or not you want him to come back have you. If you contemplate colleagues say be great if you get stuck in pain remember. I think she may have said that. Eight seven seven three zero one. Eight hundred nine seventy kim from gloucester. Thank you for coach jim. I've been trying to go to my doctor. for what. oh well over. Twelve thirteen hans You couldn't win there. I didn't want to go into the office Sixty so. I got a bunch of stuff going on. Yeah i finally get a call from the nurse We want to schedule an appointment blah blah blah. Well the hell that You know a callback i did. We wanna do is zoom appointing call. I'm looking at it. What he can't take my temperature in blood pressure on zoom. Call so i did it anyway but it turned out to be very productive because actually following the doctor out the door. I'm not done my ailments and this and that but this time you listen to everything. I said for twenty minutes. What's it gonna do. Hang up on me so i was very surprised. The medical kind of zoom worked out very well from me. I'm not saying i tell you. I love open minded. People like you. I mean that jim. I thought you were going to continue with the same theme. You predicted be a disaster. It was a disaster. But it wasn't so. I mean there's a wonderful experience and obviously that gives a lot of people access to healthcare as i said a minute ago who mine other otherwise be able to get jim. Thank you for the call. I just hope you want. We had the succession with paul rebel years ago. Long before the former secretary of education long before the pandemic came about whether or not This whole virtual thing was a slippery slope. And you. I worry about getting off a gym from gloucester a minute ago. So are lower. Income people going to be told zuma's adequate or a phone call is fine with you and my wealthier patients. They can come into the office. You don't worry about a two tier world. Also marjorie savvy and mess in the road. He is a two tier world. People that do the controversial exacerbated. No i mean. I that that's possible. I hope you'll need to believe somebody's on the up and up. I like to think that healthcare people like doctors and nurses how about education. You think colleges are going to decide. Some colleges not all colleges remote learning great for kids who can't pay full freight and those kids who can't afford are outrageous tuition. Well they actually where the teachers. That's a great question. But you know i would think. Now if you're faced with seventy grand a year to go to some of these schools or doing remote for thirty five thousand you might say i'll take. That's an intentional decision. I'm talking about people. For whom the decision is made that kid who can only afford the lower thing doesn't want to do a remote education he or she wants to be in the classroom so they can ask questions of the professor the teaching assistant afterwards and that might not be all of. I'm saying things you have to work. Want us to worry about the downside of something that a lot of got really excited about you know what i mean. I think you have to face. The most people will be able to work it out. Jim and not everybody's going to be. I mean i think you're projecting a little bit here because you don't want to get off the couch anyway. You really have to do you remember years ago. We did a story. We did thing on the radio. This is actually a sad story about the woman who said this is a true story settled couch so long and it got to me. So i shouldn't like woman is out on the couch for so long and for such an export extended period of time. This is true. Look it up as they say that she in the couch became one that essentially the fibers of the couch happened. They sort of well. I only did background. The we've on the couch. When i basically i exactly i never where she went. The couch with her. That was the part is made up. The rest is totally true. I dunno marry your couch around. All day can be a hell of a burden especially in a hot day. Okay we are talking. Oh actually we're done with this because coming up. We're gonna talk to john. King your i about liz. Political headlines of dc. Keep it down. Eighty nine seven. Gbh boston public radio Welcome back to boston public radio. We're about to make contact with john. We haven't done. John king joining us in one second Not surprisingly the biggest political story in america continues to be one senator who most of american never heard of until i don't know few months ago joe manchin from west. Virginia this is obviously off the op. Ed he wrote in homestate newspaper in west virginia and which she said that he will not be voting for the broader of the two of voting rights bills pending before the senate which means they're not fifty democratic votes and that he will not be voting to break the filibuster at appears for anything. at least. that's what i took away from this. Which means the democrats would need sixty votes for anything at least ten republican votes to get any of these matters that have passed the house on a whole variety of things from criminal justice the guns to voting rights to infrastructure to the desk of the president so the consequences could be pretty extreme cheryl. Who knows you just emailed this. No offense to marjorie but jim has the sexiest voice. I could listen to him. Read the phone book. X o x. Whoa cheryl and you don. I'm not going to list her last name but you know who she do. Yes you do. Is you call up after the show jim. Now where'd you say caller up so we're gonna talk about that and the john is actually joining us online no. Cnn's chief national correspondent one of our favorite people and one of the most knowledgeable people on the political scene dorchester zone. john king. Hey there john off at the setup for a long fall. let's go. No no no absolutely not so so john before you came on. Jim was talking about america. Elected joe biden president. At least if you not be believing big lies at were but it seems as though joe mansion is is running everything and if he keeps running everything biden is not getting anything done look. I think this is a giant question for the country For senator manchin. Senator cinema and there are a couple of others mansion. Gets most of the attention center cinema. Get some of it. As i've said before on this program megi happened just to the north of us. Democrat from new hampshire senator. She's reluctant to change. Somebody's rules to make. Just let mansion take all the heat but look the president of the united states who leads. The democratic party hosts a very ambitious. Agenda is going to have to decide when to bang heads twist arms In trying to get his votes past mansion is front and center in that. But marga i think the president in the country and progressives also need to be candid in the sense that they only have a four or five six vote margin in the house and they have no martin in the senate and so i do think that if you look at the bold biden agenda and the even bolder progressive agenda. That's not to say some job. Say whether they're right or wrong. You're not gonna get a lot of that passed as drafted as written today but through this congress. You're just not and so the question is where is the president willing to lead and say i need most of this. And where is he willing to compromise. I think he has deliberately waited for a long time. Say let's do cove relief i. Let's do vaccinations first. Let's do the you know the pandemic the economy priorities one. Two three four and five. But i do think we're at that crossroads now. He's gonna have to make some decisions and things i think that'd be messy. You know john. What is the joe biden. Chuck schumer strategy here after this op ed ren and his home state newspaper. I guess over the weekend or whenever it was a couple of days ago. What is joe biden or someone. On his behalf do with senator mansion. What is chuck schumer due to one of his forty nine democratic members. What happens jim. I think you raise a critical piece of this question that often gets overlooked in the sense that both speaker pelosi and leader schumer are going to have to help the president through this and going to have to help the democratic family realize you know sort of what can we do. And what can't we do right. And so i and again. I think the clock is ticking. Now and so we'll show senator schumer for example bring the for the people act which is the more sweeping democratic. It's not just voting rights. It has a lot of campaign finance changes into it. There's no way it's going to pass the united states senate. There's no way it's going to get a sixty. Boats may not get even all the democratic votes antenna said immobile for it. I think there are two or three other. Maybe four of the democrats who are reluctant so do one approach would be for schumer to just start bringing these things to the floor and let there be votes. Bring up bring up for the people today. You can't advance it with sixty votes. You know that you get them some math. Bring up a you know whether it's a climate change bill whether it's an infrastructure bill bring up something the next day or the next week and see where the votes are and part of that is to remind progressive in the house that you know we understand your energy. We applaud your energy. We understand you can sell that back home in your district. But we don't have the votes for it in the senate how do you. How do you sort that process out. And i i understand the president strategy so far has the focus on the north stars if you will but if they want to get some of this done in the back half of this legislative session before we get too deep into the summer and then nothing happens and then we come back. It's an election year and even less happens that the president's going to have to make some pretty quick decisions over the next several weeks as to how to prioritize and then to ask pelosi and schumer to help them on the hill. Play it out. You know we're spending all this attention on joe. Manchin who is a democrat and did vote for massive covert relief. Bill we should maybe spend a few minutes on the people. I i know. Marjorie considered true obstructionist republicans in the senate with a few exceptions republican. Legislators across the country who are embracing these voter suppression bills that become law with republican governors signatures. And i have to sit. Did you watched jeopardy to see anderson. Cooper's hour long interview. John with brock obama last night. I did you know. I thought it was for those who didn't see. It was terrific and you. You've got a guy who is whether you like politics or not as so insightful. And so smart and so thoughtful. But you know i left the our every time anderson asked this guy who's been in that seat who knows what incoming to use his expression like from the opposition every time he asked barack obama. How do we fix this. You know it was sort of like we got a reorganize we gotta build from the bottom up. I left that our thinking. Even barack obama doesn't have an idea how to get out of this. This this to america's divide that we find ourselves in it. Was i being unfair to him or did you draw the same conclusion. No i i think it is fair. Locate he would have his response. If you're with us to say well. I am involved here and i don. I decided not to do so much there. I was just talking about this with my political reporters on my show. Insist to the same point in the sense that he's very thoughtful and he's very analytical about the problem i think his point about the media silos we've talked about these conversations before he's very instructive and i look. I think everybody should spend most of the time with jim jim and marjorie but then occasionally watch under running. But i mean i mean that you should have your favorites. Are people should have their favorites. And you guys were great. But if you're doing a disservice to yourself if you don't scout the other team mark you don't open your mind to listening to other points of views You're limiting your own growth right limiting your own. Forcefulness hasn't argue to argue against those positions that you find to be outrageous and the pro forma presents right about that too. Many people live in this media silo now where you only hear what you wanna hear. You only hear things that not and you think you're the smartest person on the planet. That's a dangerous place to live. He's right about that. I do think there are a lot of people say well. Then what are you going to do about it. you know. Brock obama You you are a unique communicator. You are a former president. You have a political network. And i think some of it is joe. Biden's president now obama's bit hesitant to get take to spotlight away. I i think it's also fair that he's enjoying his retirement and the celebrity piece of and he's entitled to that. I think we get into the midterm year. If there's anybody who understands what it's like to be punished and midterm elections. It's rock obama. He lost the house in his first one in two thousand nine then he got reelected. He lost the senate in his second midterm in two thousand fourteen. So if there's anybody who can help to understand. What joe biden. We'll go through what the democratic party will go through if they lose the next election. It's barack obama. So i think that would be the testing time right. Jim is he out there as we get closer to. The midterms doing everything. He can't talk about these issues especially the voting rights piece of it. Well you know the conventional wisdom was what really Hurt barack obama was gamma kerr. Because it was very unpopular at least at the beginning and then of course it change. But i'm wondering because i think so. Many americans want infrastructure. They want some of these. You know bridges roads. And i think a lot of women would also like a little bit of help in terms of the women's work that so underpaid so i wonder if just like obama was hurt by passing obamacare that the gop will be hurt by by not coming up with with a plan that can pass. I don't pay enough attention to this to realize who's blocking the stuff. Well i one of the lessons of the first obama term is that you know. Look past all these major changes to health care which by and the republicans focused on disruption because it was going to be disruptive a lot was going to change your healthcare and the good hadn't come yet because the law hasn't been implemented so you hadn't you didn't realize how much you liked have like letting your kids down your plan. They were twenty six. You didn't realize how much whether it's pre existing conditions or some other benefit from obamacare. And sure there were. Things about obamacare that infuriate youtube perfect everyone gets but republicans focus on the disruption and the and the economy. Do not come back separately. Stimulus plan did economy. Do not come back at the speed. The democrats had hoped and they had a huge midterm sweep. So number one. The lesson for biden is when democrats passing embrace them. Do not run from them. Do not know but to your point about the infrastructure thing. I i think. I don't know the answer marjorie. Because we've just been through this. Take the politics out of it's a disruption of covert and what it has done to everybody's lives and how everybody has to deal with unwanted change disruption So politically can you make an argument there about you know Do are people in a different place because of the pandemic when you pass big things or you have disruptive things. I don't know the answer. I think that's in part with the mid-term climate. It's going to settle that question. What you have marjorie. And i one of the few things. We argue about Off the air and on is is what is clear to the american public. And what is not and i would argue. If republicans who voted against the relief packages can go home and brag about how they brought spending to their district that they voted against their ability to convince enough voters that they weren't the obstacle to any of these advances advances joe manchin a democrat was the obstacle to all these advances in paid. Advertising is to me. Pretty clear. John no i think it can't. We'll will democrats successfully hold to account republicans who are trying that shell game. I will call it. Vote no on everything aetna on everything and then find two or three things to run home and brag about we'll we'll democrats be nimble enough Will it be in the districts that matter so midterm elections are incredibly complicated and we have no idea how complicated yet because we're still so far out But house elections are different from senate election. Tried you know. Are the democrats going to be on their heels. Because you know something happens to the vaccine rod or will. They be feeling quite confident. Economy comes back. The vaccination things are better. But i think that the tactical nimble -ness of the democratic party is critical when it comes to that question. Are you ready to consistently get in the face and call out. What the democrats. I assume will offer simple bolt hypocrisy. Well when you say how nimble are they. I mean if you were if this was a moot court or if it was a jury trial i mean the republicans would be guilty. In thirty seconds the jury would be back. Wouldn't wouldn't they i. Could you can make that case. Pretty strongly the question is the republican. You're talking about in a very competitive congressional district. Therefore it's worth putting the money in the advertising or do you just have to bite your tongue and be frustrating and walk away and realize okay. We might narrow this from a fifteen point reyes to ten point rice or twelve point rice. But we're gonna lose that district so he let him get away with it because we need our resources somewhere else. We're talking to cnn's. John cameron keep talking to him after this quick break into eighty seven. Gbh boston public radio gravy. Just tuning in. We're midway through a conversation with c. n. n.'s. John king so john king. We were looking at your website earlier today. in chris. zola. Had a great piece talking about foreign president and according to his sources trump really does believe he's going to be reinstated this summer. I mean can this be true It can be true that he says it to people yes Are here and we have reported on this mega even with the new york times. I think the first person to report this a few days ago. that in his conversations with People who support him in this idea that you know these audits are going to find this massive fraught and suddenly they're going to declare joe biden illegitimate and reinstate donald trump. There's a few problems with that are never won. The election was had very little fraud. Joe biden wanted Both in the popular vote and the electoral college. He is president. He was sworn in. And there's nothing in the us constitution or federal law that allows a president to be reinstated. So there are a lot of problems with the argument up but Donald trump doesn't care about the truth or facts and he keeps telling people this law and and he just said it just said this. You know i go through this. I know you guys wrestle with the. How much do you pay attention to. One senate lady is not true when it is not true and it is potentially destructive to democracy Do you just want to ignore it right Because a lot of people say crazy things however he's not just talking to the portrait's at mar a lago. He did this speech to the north carolina republican party of the weekend. Not the reinstatement part but the fraud part and so the republican party continues to enable him at official events awfully they raise money To say these things. Can you imagine if the ceo of your company traveled country lying. Yeah it's a seat. If the ceo of your company tr travel the country telling a bold blatant lie That wasn't about nothing that had a destructive could be potentially destructive debilitating to the company which is our democracy is the is the former presidents company. What he says is destructive debilitating in the republican party is enabling him because they fear him they feared his voters and they make money off him so we have to talk about it john. You're careful not crossing the line into Being an opinion. But i think this is a safe one to ask. Do you not worry about the long-term. Forget the midterm election consequences. I'm not saying they're not important to you. Worry about the long term consequences of living in this rabbit hole. That so much of america chooses to live in so i'm an optimist by nature. You guys know that. I'm a kid from dorchester. Whose family for part of my childhood was on food stamps. I grew up in a triple decker. I have traveled. The world has seen amazing things because of the value of education the value family that supports me And so i'm an optimist. I just just a born bostonian optimist. Yes i'm worry. You just say i try not to go into opinion. What i just said was pretty opinionated. The former president digit lying in the republican party. I wish i wish. I never had to speak those words but that is not that is not pro-trump that is that it's not anti trump. I mean it's pro truth and so sometimes we have to end the call. I do not want to get involved in these verses. Are i do not want to get involved in dc versus these. Whose idea is better. Who's the most compelling. I want to cover the story But but when when something is clearly not true it is our obligation to call it out. And i think if enough people do that we'll get through this but we are in a very threatening period of time that i frankly people were saying two or three years ago. That trump is a threat to democracy. I kinda shrug it off and said now. It's not that bad or he's just people will figure this out and i underestimated. I think that the how many people would join him How many people would look for an excuse. You know to to say. Joe biden didn't win. How many people are willing to attack math and facts and the rule of law in our country. So i think that there should be a giant wakeup call to everybody in my view should be giant wakeup call even more so to conservatives and republicans not let your party be led down this rabbit hole Because we need debates between the parties So am i. am. I worried absolutely. Am i generally optimistic and think we'll come through this after. I think we're going to spend a few years on a roller coaster with a blindfold on not knowing exactly where we're going to go and when it's going to stop but generally. I'm an optimist. We're talking to john king from cnn. Changqing president biden talked about getting seventy percent of americans with at least one vaccine dose by july four. So far. i think it's only thirteen states have met that goal. How significant this well. It's a big goal and this one's ambitious. A lot of people said early on the president had goal to the deliberately set a low bar so guarantee to meet them. This one is going to be tough. I was looking at these numbers earlier today. And we're somewhere in the ballpark of three hundred. Seventy five thousand americans. I think it's even dropped a little bit getting their shot every day and he has to get it up over above five hundred and fifty thousand to reach that goal so they need to ramp this up significantly to meet it. But let's say they fall short of it if they come. Close your sixty. Three percent of americans now have at least one shot if you can get to sixty eight or sixty nine. That's progress and the reason they're doing this marjorie is they're looking at know now. Is the summer this is the quote unquote good. Time for. cova outdoor doesn't spread as much in the heat and what they're worried about it. Let's say you know massachusetts doing great in terms of the vaccine roll out. Most of the new england states are doing great alabama mississippi tennessee louisiana. It's largely in the southeast away behind And so are we going to to the back to school time. In late summer early fall and see these regional pockets of cases researching you know in the pandemic. So that's why they're making this push trying to get ahead of when the weather gets colder To reach the seventy percent by july fourth. That's actually a steep climb as of today. They're not gonna make why we wait and count. What are the things that you guys on. Your website should mentioned this. you're talking about a foreign president trump. but this bipartisan report about the january. Sixth thing not this special commission but this report that they've been working on from again five partners I think so. I'd have to senate committees. yeah. I'm not sure what to community said work but in any case reason i mentioned it is They talked about some some intelligence failures but they also it says the report really didn't talk about trump's roll and i thought that was odd because it was bipartisan. So i guess once again. It's another indication of the foreign presidents in san with gop. Yeah yeah. I think you re you can read this report and this again defense you. You have a glass half empty glass half full in the sense that there are some very damning details about the intelligence failures That you know different agencies new information that he didn't share it very similar pre-nine eleven right. There were a lot of information but it was siloed in different places and it wasn't shared or didn't get up the chain of command to the right person or somebody in a position of authority just played it down or shrugged it off. So there's a lot of damning information as they reform the capitol police try to deal with the management. It wasn't just the individuals but the structure sometimes tied their hands. How to deal with this as they deal with those that. This report is very very helpful laying out some of the problem. Structural problems and personnel problems and decisions wrong decisions and sharing information but it doesn't even use the term insurrection. Because the republicans would not agree to the reporter fees that terms it mentions that donald trump gave a speech to a rally. It does not say he lied in. That speech doesn't fact. Check that speak and say that he said things that we're simply not true in that speech because for them to say that the republicans would not cooperate so they instead just said if you want to read the speech in the appendix to the report so it ducks a lot of the big questions and it glosses over some truth and so you could make the case that you know. Why do we have the united states. Congress making extreme case. But if they if the grownups can't go into a room and say we need to make points here. We all need to agree on a few points here. Democrats republicans male female from the west coast east coast somewhere in between we need to have some basic common understanding acceptance of the facts. Here jim this gets us back to the obama conversation. All of these things are connected. Just these refusal to address to have a common set of truth over then which we fight like cats and dogs. Let's have some basic common truths it seems to me. John is rudy. giuliani hot. people probably know that. There's this new audio of this phone call in may two years ago which you can hear him. Basically pressuring Ukraine to investigate. These conspiracies turn out to be baseless about The biden's she in hot water over this or what. He's being investigated a number of things and this is among the things seasoned vet being investigated for everyone to listen to the full forty minutes of this conversation and when rudy giuliani says he did absolutely nothing wrong. Imagine a an attorney who represents the president of the united states saying these things to representatives of a foreign government busy in a live war with russia at the moment trying to use his influence and leverage over them to do unethical things. It's just forty minutes of pure straight out corruption Sorry just listen to it. If you come to a different conclusion you know where to find me. Okay so if the new head of basketball operations for your boston celtics calls you on the phone and says who should my next coach be. What is john king. tell him. I'll little conflicted on this one. I think i think they they see what steve nash in brooklyn. So i think they see this former player. Steve kerr the warriors. I think they see the former player idea. Who would that be for us right. Is that chauncey billips that castle. I could see that. I could see that i think Juwan howard who is now in the college ranks. I i guess i could see that. I just i don't know we're gonna learn this new role for brad stevens to or you know came in from a college coach to approach so i'm fascinated by it but jim we have to worry. First and foremost we have to get the bruins victory on long island and keep the red sox on the streak one time care and before you go away when i was watching. Rachelle wolinsky dodger. Orlinsky throw out the first pitch at red sox game. I remember that one. John how many times you don a john. A number or one. Or how many times do i've done it once. And it was the only game the red sox wondering the yankees that series so. I've always told them they should see what happened. There i was in right. Field doctor lansky through that out. I was out there with my two sons watching the game. It was fantastic. It was cold as you know what but it was. It was fantastic to do a better job. Dr alinsky or no. I i was i was. I was a little high but i reached to the play. That's very impressive. dr landscaping join. Say one god. My older son told me my oldest son told me. If you bounce this i will never speak to you again. Pressure can take two weeks off to practice okay. Baseball player in high school. I was a mediocre baseball player. A catcher so. I did the reverse right better you than may john. It's a pleasure as always. Thanks so much for your time. We appreciate you very much. John king can you imagine i have a heart attack crowing the first ally john king joins every week. He's seen as national correspondent. Nacre this ipod expensive. Well let's to watch the video. Tell us watch the video former news reporter here. You can tell people. How did i choose. Not to jeff thank accused the sexism. I've got enough problems and leave it at that. Thank you again to john king okay. Every week we'll be back quick break you.