The Right Way to Handle Reviews in 2019 According to Yelp
Let me find out. I think one in nine reviews actually got the response so you think that you're one of those eighty percent customer centric businesses that is really like absolutely absolutely killing it and like their customer love. You and you have superior customer service at you're not responding to reviews. I'm sorry to say that's just that's just not the case well adam. That's disappointing mathematically a good way to open this year with a a really sad and depressing statistic. I here we r._j. And we we do this every day. You write books about this and it's so surprising and i i'm trying to figure out i sincerely trying to figure out the this is the case is it because we as social pros and customer service pros are more in the now about responding engaging with customers that are having issues in situations now now rather than issues that had been posted about an impasse tents. I don't understand it but obviously i think the table is turning that we we are seeing more engagement. Of course the successful brands are indeed doing that yeah. I think we're getting better we we. We still have a long way to go which because very clear in this episode featuring featuring john carroll from from yelp. He's the senior manager of local business. Outreach leiderman good stats in here about yelp about local reviews about how to interact with customers immerse on reviews platform. It's really interesting episode <hes> on a topic that frankly we don't spend enough time about on here on the podcast so you're gonna love it if it's such a you're the ratings and reviews game at all you want to sit through this episode of the show. You're gonna learn a lot <hes> before we jump in. He got a lot to hear from john this week. I just a quick in argument of our sponsors of course adam and his team at salesforce marketing cloud software release the new social studio. <hes> tell the kids about it adam. There is so much coming up in the next couple of months. That's you know one of the things we've recently added is the ability to engage with with with reviews and be able to listen to reviews from other for over four hundred different platforms and sites and more more engagement coming here and the very next couple of months so it's a really exciting time and i think it reinforces this whole idea of the importance reviews in empowering the right people in your organization whether the p._r. Comms or the marketing of the social teams or your customer service teams or those frontline employees to be able to respond to the customers immerse quickly and that's what we hear from john on this podcast yep absolutely salesforce social studio great way to combine what you're doing in social with what you're doing in reviews you you know those those have been quite different organizations for a long time and <hes> salesforce bringing them together into one platform which is super useful also show this week brought to you by our pals at emma terrific email email marketing platform allowing you to send a customized smart you know automated nurture email sequences and they've got a great team of people down there in nashville tennessee one of america's great cities in my estimation you can go to my emma dot com slash. Jay is awesome. My dot com slash. Jay is awesome as i always meant geno your other. I did not select to learn more about 'em but i gotta tell you you know. Email can get a little tricky and and emma you can actually get a real life human being on the phone who will help you make your email no better and and that means a lot to me. Great features great price great people that is all right. Let's get right into this. Week's episode john carroll senior manager local business outreach reach yelp here on the social pros gassed john carroll senior manager local business. This outreach at yelp is our guest. We can show john. Thanks so much for being here. Appreciate it. Yeah thanks for having me so tell us a little bit about what your job entails. They're yelp open the kind of the challenges that you're facing these days yeah so my role at l. has really evolved over the past five years actually started on our sales team and our new york office <hes> all all that time ago and then i gotta roll on our business average team which is the internal organisation tasked with you know working with business owners directly ossets primarily face to face a lot of the person time on stage at conferences things like that and we we're we're handling the tough questions like like where helping them you know talk through reviews and and you know y yelp league has ever combination software and things like that and also coaching them in all of the free tools <hes> <hes> one of the great missions. Our team is that like we really were oriented towards <hes> an are oriented towards just like education first and kind of help mindset and help integrity and then that role roll. I realized obviously i can get in front of three thousand person i three thousand people on stage a couple times a year but a piece of content can get in front of three thousand people in a day or a month uh-huh <hes> or a year on its own so i started focusing my time and energy on really building out our content marketing hub and starting to build a content marketing engine <hes> which i think building hanta marketing especially in an organization <hes> that is techy and moves fast like it's really about and i'm getting internal stakeholders on board and showing them the value of something that is a little bit more long term payoffs than a lot of the programs that we might have running now a sort a sales versus marketing construct there and and it's amazing because you know yelp is being a technology company. You've got access assessed tons and tons of data and so some of the content marketing that you're doing already takes advantage of your access to that data you put together a fascinating report recently that talked about the the importance of of customer service and i'm throwing up the air quotes now for those of you listening to the podcast <hes> that that customer service is super important in kind of how people leave reviews in when they leave reviews and and what kind of reviews they leave. Can you talk a little bit about what you found when he dug into that data yeah so i think in a lot of ways everybody is kind of like a mini economist. I always think that people are optimizing the marginal utility right. If you think about everything that you're doing in your in your mind very subtle way or doing a cost benefit analysis assists you're trying to minimize your costs and optimize your benefits so effectively at the end of that equation you have like your maximum utility per experience and what we found on is a customer service is actually one of the biggest factors in driving not so we we china couple of really interesting things so i totally initially to the study about how bad the impact on customer customer service on a reviews mccown a mentioned a review mentioned good customer service. What's five times more likely to be five star verses. One star dr <hes> we refresh that data and we found that it's actually now fifteen times more likely that a review mentioning good a great customer services five star versus on star. You're so that is kind of like the top line number that we focused on and then we really started kind of diving in from there and we compared it to. I think for a lot of restaurants you know are there are there are always concerned about the product and i think most businesses focus on the product but we found that break customer service is actually more important than great taste so for every one review that mentions gray taste therefore that talked about a great price thirteen that mentioned great customer service and then i think the the last really interesting part of that day the study is that speed of service is also incredibly incredibly important that there's not a category of business so we actually do the analysis across every single category and on our blog. We have an interactive tooling feature that you can get your category of business specifically. There's not a category on yelp that has not positively impacted <hes> by faster stor customer service that we found every single in every single category of review mentions fast customer service that reviews tended to steal more positive more negative. I think it's fascinating this idea that when people mention customer service in review it's thirteen times more likely claimed to be a five star review them when they mention great taste even in a restaurant scenario to to me. My interpretation of that is people expect great taste the restaurant so when that is delivered. That's not necessarily a five star review because you're giving the customer what they bargained for. However consumer's ars expectations around customer service is so low right we we don't expect much because we don't usually get much that when we actually do encounter a disproportionately is proportionately good customer service. It's it's so shocking that it induces that consumer to actually spend the time to to create post to review d._c. It that way as well yeah like i think i think the marketing buzzer that we might be dancing around his delight. That's that's a big word that people love to love around but you know you expect. If you're looking at a business i always think about y'all blake and he's hyper review site when i'm going on and i'm doing my research. I'm i'm setting my expectation. Okay then my mama's creating this like bar of brand promise in my mind and how business measures up to or fall short at the bar is really going to be how like what plays out in a reviews news. It's almost like this cognitive dissonance moment <hes> so for me. I always think about like if they're if they're exceeding that bar then that means that that equation is like off the charts unusually that the thing that's going to most likely impact that customer service for me so yeah i do. I do tend to agree with that is like it. If you have a really shockingly experience you're more likely to go online and share it and we see that in our reviews i mean over eighty percent of reviews on yelp about which is what we consider positive so. It's you know the majority of the reviews views on the site are are those delight looks variances in there are more five star reviews on yelp and there are one two and three star reviews combined. Wow that's that's an interesting in statistics. I don't think i would have expected that. I think oftentimes both focus will focus on the on the trolls john you mentioned something i think the fascinating and and and i agree with john jay's impression of the expectations for example at a restaurant that the food's going to be good. It's all about <hes> about customer service. You mentioned the importance of speed of service and i kind of want to take that to the next level and talk about speed of response or the speed of engagement with a customer whether they're having a great five star review on your platform or a one or a two star review. How important is it for a brand to respond in the platform platform to those and do you see any correlation with future customer service or future score when brands are more responsive and more quickly responsive responsive yeah so i think one of the one of the really interesting stats we kind of green from that study as well is that eighty percent of the reviews that mentioned spoke to a manager actually actually result in a one star of new still <hes> which is pretty shocking to me because that's one of those things that it's like this isn't. I think there was an article that came out a few months ago or the six months ago. That was like please like people just like talk to the manager. Have the conversations like like don't just go online and it turns out that those people aren't just going online. They're actually taking that that step. I am talking to the manager and there's a failure in customer service right traditional customer service is not succeeding <hes> which is a huge opportunity entity for businesses to figure out like you know. How can we possibly better serve customers in j. thinking hitters you. You mentioned this one staff that maybe you can help me out with letter. It was like eighty percent of people think that they have great customer service but when you survey they're serving their customers going like nine or seventeen percent sixty percent yeah yeah addicts from bain yeah. The eighty eighty percent of businesses say that they deliver superior customer service and eight percent of customers agree which <hes> disorder shows the fundamental disconnect between how companies think they're doing customer service and how customers think they're doing customer service and the thing about the managers. It doesn't surprise me because my observation. I don't have on this anecdotal. Is that if you experience poor customer service from frontline team member typically. It's partially actually because the manager sucks too right so so if you're like hey let me go see the manager. It's not it's not very often that that you know you've got some poor frontline people but then a great manager manager right sort of fish rots from the head so that doesn't really surprise me that all of a sudden you talk to the manager and the manager is throwing gas on the fire not not water yeah and there's there's <hes> there's this great business in indio california called t k b <hes> bakery and they have been on our top one hundred list for the past three or four years. I think two years ago they were the number one business <hes> in the country and i sat down with <hes> daughter. It's a it's a holy family. Operated business and molina was just like you can names melina. Melina was like i will ask people who are making sandwiches on the line is out of sandwich and if they can instantly answer yes we throw it out and we make it a gun and that is the kind of managerial attitude you know that takes when they get a negative review they round up as a team and they unpack it going back to your point atom like they're responding to those reviews or having those conversations in there doing timely way because businesses are so we tend to silo you know online feedback or online review versus in person conversation compensation grosses face bay verses <hes> an email versus a phone call and from a customer service strategy we must create unique strategies for each of this channels in and create the silos when for consumers is actually becoming an increasingly blurry world right like like some people are more comfortable going online or some people are more comfortable israel sending an email or or you know the versus having the manager come over because maybe one time they had a manager of maroon and the manager you know bark at them and they didn't have a great experience so you know maybe they have their their tend to choose a more like slightly passive channel <hes> either way from the consumer perspective. It's identical so businesses shouldn't really have you. You know an overly like different strategy for each of those channels like been global customer. Service should be the same if you respond promptly in person you showed respond. Promptly the online and that's one of the things that we really are trying to encourage business owners to do is participate in the conversation. <hes> we find that i think one in nine reviews actually got the response so if you're one of those eighty percent customer centric businesses that is really like absolutely kellyn it and like their customers love you and you have superior customer service at you're not responding to reviews. I'm sorry to say that's just not. That's just not the case. One out of nine reviews responded to. That's not good enough enough because if you said hey here's what we're going to do here's the new plan guys. Everybody gather on staff meeting. <hes> we're going to answer eleven percent of the phone calls. You guys cool with that right you couldn't you couldn't survive as business like that you couldn't you couldn't you couldn't respond to eleven percent of emails but because it's review man you know we'll get to some of them and some of them we won't on whatever right and and you have to. You can't think of it like that right. The customer has chosen that mechanism because they believe that is the the ideal circumstances or whatever it is. They're trying to express right. Nobody nobody spins a roulette wheel and says to help you know there's going there for a reason right and so we always say is that you you know you have to address the customer in the channels that they prefer not the channels that the business prefers an end. I cannot believe it's so disheartening. It's still only one in nine but i guess i i guess i shouldn't be surprised but <hes> but but it is kind of a bummer yeah absolutely and you know what we what i find his even anecdotally onstage in and asking people in the audience like what are they responding. Jill and most people are responding to the negative reviews <hes> which is shocking into me because i've actually these people going on there saying i love this place so whispering in the ear of a future potential customer saying this place is a nominal like you should we go there and they are single handedly shrinking your advertising budget does a little bit right like this is. This is digital word of mouth like which nowadays like remove the digital digital. It's just word of mouth. There is no difference between <hes> somebody saying this had brunch table versus somebody saying it online <hes> to the average consumer and eighty nine think bright local did a study and they've got an eighty nine percent of consumers are reading the responsive business underwrite so like i ll tell people respond publicly so on yelp you can actually respond launched with a direct message or you can leave a public comment. I always say respond publicly because at least you're getting credit for it right and and you know i think a lot of folks have this orientation to deep personalizing it and and you know picking picking arthur response and and really going after the small things that they need to crack but but that's just take the high road right. That's not the way that's not the way to do it. Start with thank you. Thank them for their feedback. I've never seen a review. Even the most negative review that doesn't have some positive president component of it <hes> because nobody wants to seem like they're that person just like went in and had a completely miserable experiencing. I didn't find any silver lining so even if the food wasn't great and the and the service was slow at least the staff was friendly or something like finite bright spot like you know acknowledge it and then address the concerns and then sign off with thank you for your negative and then on the positive views again start with the dank you find the bright spot. Invite them back. You know maybe use that as an opportunity to recommend something else that they might enjoy. You're not trying to push new products on people that you're trying to chillier response and show them that you're thinking about them that you care john. There's so many directions. I i want to go in <hes> i i'm. I'm i'm so glad you're on the on the show this week. I do want to go back to something that that you mentioned. You talked a little bit about the bakery that has been on your top one hundred list for for a while. I'm going to assume that if they've been on your list for a while they're doing things right. They have the right frontline employees with the right mantra on the right attitude. They have great <hes> managers and leadership. They're doing everything right and senior manager of local business outreach you have this opportunity go out and speak to these companies the ones that are like this company that are doing well and maybe companies that are not doing so well and my question for you is. Have you seen brands. You don't have to mention any names but have you seen brands effectively listen to their customer using yelp and turn things around and what are the one or two things things that they focused on. I that you believe gave them that traction to be able to follow through and and get those scores higher yeah so other others and scrape business that i i absolutely love in denver. <hes> the business owners named stephanie and she owns <hes> a few different boutiques now she's upset three three or four and one of the things that she mentioned <hes> and she we had her on for a webinar where she talked about how responding to a reviews actually really helped her kind of changed the direction and change the way that she grew her business and one of the things that you mentioned what she talked about you know this one customer who came in and attention small boutique right so during off hours. She's stopping. Maybe one person <hes> because she the overhead of staffing more than one person is frankly too much especially in the off hours so she had this one review where somebody came in and like it just happened to be the time. There were two customers in the store one of them one of them was being held by the customer. The employees <hes> and this other person's kind of walking around and the review is like you know i didn't i was walking around and thinking expensive but i couldn't figure out if they were locally made and unruly figure out like what like like what the store is about in perspective christmas busy so they didn't pay me a lot of attention which in in her mind she was like well like i'm a small boutique like of course i can't stop people to be running around and paying their overhead nakazawa limitation of mine but she's like once i got over that kind of initial initial visceral like adrenaline rush reaction because i realized that i should be having shelf talkers throughout my story so that i am touting that these are are locally produced goods by local artisans and that's why things are expensive because like money is going pockets of local artists so that was something that she may that was a positive change and i think what like the best businesses that are doing. This in the best doesn't <unk> engaging with <unk> doing is like they're they're getting over that initial like visceral frustration reviews and they're looking beyond not and they're actually looking at the reviews like feedback right and they're using it as ways and and and tools to help umbro directionally because you can go and make you know ninety degree turns and your business like every other day inaugural figure out what's working but if you have a source that is your customers or potential customers telling you exactly what you need to do to win their business that is providing much more meaningful direction for the changes that you're going to make and it's a small incremental micro changes and those you know changes that are coming from the frontline people who are on the ground where bubbling that up to you you you know that are going to be the most meaningful in the way that you that you grow in and actually sustain john. Would you say that emotional visceral this responses senses is one of the biggest mistakes that you see business owners make where they see those reviews and they they have that immediate emotional reaction. They either say hell. I'm not going going to respond this. This person is is is a bozo or is there another kind of common mistake that you see business owners make when they when they first read reviews views and kind of go through a calculated methodology before responding or changing their their fundamental business yeah. I think that folks tend to like i. I think the pressure responses is natural right like i think everyone everyone has that you know in in any situation i want so on stage and and you know somebody gave me some feedback at the end. That was like you talk really fast and i was like whatever like me that's brand. Talk fouts people can understand me. Whatever and that's that's like that's not the right way to approach that so literally every time onstage now i think about that exact these feedback and i have to stop myself. I'm like am i am. I talking too fast oftentimes. The answer is still yes but i am a work in progress. Just like we all are right <hes> so i don't. I don't think that the visceral reaction is wrong. I think that it is human and that is okay. I think what people do that is. One of the i consider that the stakes is they ignore. Ignore the feedback and think that it's anecdotal but as we now i always like to think about that like one nine ninety principal <hes> which was first observed on wikipedia all those years ago so that for every hundred people using site ninety of them are just going to learn and consume nine of them are going to engage in edit and only one of them will create net new so onto you have that kind of transcribes tower translates to compete is ninety of those people are out of one hundred ninety of those people are reading an article nine of them might go in and add an oxford comma or at a citation tation and only one of them is going to create a new wikipedia page article so when you think about this principle that has been kind of observed across the internet you know barring the like button and some social media stuff in there but generally pretty pretty consistent <hes> we find that like if you think about that and apply that to a site like yelp for every one person who has said it that means there are probably ninety nine people who thought it but just never took the time to write it down so you can't look at a review as just one on one off anecdotal person you have to look at it as a failure to meet a brand promise or an expectation that was set before that person walks into your business and you need to understand and where that is coming from if you want to solve it and prevent it from happening in the future john with with five g. around the corner and in growing reliance on on smartphones i suspect you're seeing more and more yelp reviews being created on the mobile app and and how how do you sort of take that to the next level is it. Is it a are is it using geolocation to say we know this person was in the business when they left the review kind of what's what's the future hold for for yelp in a manifestly mobile world yeah. I think you know we do have some tools that use g._p._s. now. I think like yelp as far is our our business autumn like what we think about. We're always thinking like clicks bricks. Where thank you and how do we drive. Your customers for traffic phone calls on things like that. We've evolved some really you know great tools and functionality <hes> that do that. I think early on we've we've kind of tried to use a g._p._s. really play with mobile and create more interesting incentives along mobile <hes> so one consumer is one of my favorite tools is a check offer of an that uses. That's exclusively on mobile devices. So what what's your businesses is a little offer that somebody sees <hes> on your business age when they're on the app or on the mobile site and new customized for yourself. It's free to setup <hes> and it doesn't cost you anything of anybody. Redeems that it's just an offer that you create that somebody is saying you know check into this business which means that they walk in user g._p._s. G._p._s. hit the button it looks at them from a geography and if they're in the business like chicken and as a result of checking in coming into your business they got a a free canister when they purchase a launcher or whatever the offer is that you wanna create there have been businesses that have been given free hugs handshakes or high fives whatever it is <hes> but like with that that's a really great kind of fun way to engage people a mobile and it's another way that like when when somebody does that kind of puts it in. They're like hey remember you. Were at this business so the next time they come in there and it's top of mind for them so that we we've done it with reviews. I think that's always people on mobile like we have our elite community which are like are super engaged users and reviewers and like it's always mind blowing to me a lengthen detail that people put into reviews. I think they're always going to be different. Cohorts reviewers like they're the people who you know maybe check in and they go to their desktop and they wanna all right the review out. Maybe they're pounding it out on their phone than in there <hes> so i think that's always that's always something to kind of to kind of think about is like how like what is the medium that people are are are sharing this experience with <hes> because you know what you may be lacking review contacts and our content and gun like this is like this is kind of more speculative at this point but like you're you're making up foreign photo content because it's so easy to share and take photos of a business so on mobile so i think like there. There are always going to be content trade offs depending on the medium you yeah that's interesting. I hadn't thought about it that way but it makes a lot of sense right a longer text review on desktop where you've got full keyboard but then and more usage of of photos on mobile because it's just so easy to take on your phone and then posted to yup that's that's fascinating i as i recall aw correctly your terms of service this discourage or prohibit solicitation of reviews and certainly not discourage or prohibit pain people to create a review that that being said it is obviously true that that businesses should seek more reviews <hes> because it's it's great to have additional feedback et cetera so as <hes> <hes> as as the head of a local business outreach. What do you tell businesses who want to get more reviews but you know obviously. They're not going to bribe people to do it. So what is your for best practices on another gene consumers to actually take the time to provide feedback via yelp. Yeah i mean so the obviously they're not going to bribe people to do it. As a little bit is a little bit tricky <hes> because we unfortunately do find instances where businesses try to incentivize and pay people to <hes> write reviews and we actually have a kind of consumer protection initiative where in those instances where we find really agree gis examples of people trying to by worst olympic reviews actually consumer alerts on their page we linked to the evidence of that consumers are aware of what this businesses doing and i always start with. It's kind of this pretty used symbol anecdote in story for businesses and most people can relate to and i think it really paints the don't ask for views in a slightly different light because us for me like like i think as a business when you're when you're concerned kind of myopically on on growing your business you're trying to think how do you get to the next level in the next up up and you think like wall reviews are willing gordon and i see this person on the street and they have a hundred reviews. I only have ten so i need to get to one hundred and like it just becomes assist the focus in the succession. Can you almost become like irrational attached to it in some regards and will do really i mean almost almost anything and actually find that <hes> asking reviews damage your relationships with customers and i've been in a few instances myself where i've actually not gone to businesses like even prior to working at l. <hes> and and drinking mr nascar review kool aid about like you know i once went to barbershop and they grabbed my wrist as i was leaving and the guy was like write me in review right simply because has i'd used his check on offer and he knew that i was a engaged helper but story. I always tell us about is about you. Know rideshare uber and i travel for work. I ended uptaking auto uber is and if you haven't guessed already. I am definitely about person who loves a weird conversation with my uber driver like i'm just like i get in that backseat unlike pretty much blown on outlook heinz ketchup bottle and read the conversation starters right <hes> so like every once in awhile i will end a twenty minute trevor twenty even a conversation where like we're imbibe in connecting. We're having conversations like it's gray like both days are more interesting now and as i'm getting out the guy will just be like five or five right john and like in that moment i wonder and i have to think like didn't we just have a great twenty minute conversation because because we're just two people passing the time imbibing like it was just like authentic when organic or do we just have a great twenty minute conversation so you could get a five star review and as a business a so toxic right like what what what a dangerous idea appointments plans in somebody's head because you're calling into question your own integrity and your authenticity <hes> which it is really going to undermine and undermine the competence you built up with that person in with that customer and you know you always hear the stats like somebody comes to your business. It's like three times in the back four times like seventy whatever percent so now i'm wondering like if i'm back that fourth time is the customer service is going to completely drop off. Awfully what can i trust this business missing since then sell much money advertising in getting not that i caused that new customer in the door that like to ask kerr view that removes consent from the review equation and then puts us weird burden onus on me as their consumer like that's not actually doing you any any favors not short term gain is going to have long term payoff. I think about myself as as i asked this question and also familiar with a lot of statistics <hes> john. I don't know if this from yelp but recently read a study showed that i think the average average person i need to read about forty reviews before they believe there's a correlation between the reviews and the and the points and i think another statistic said that forty three percent of of review you users your product included are only going to look at reviews over the past two weeks so we have this challenge as you said if we can't kind of ask people for reviews <hes> and we need to feed the kitty so to speak. How does this all work. My question for you is this. Have you ever done a study and looked at the review score of people's i yelp review and seeing how it trips that neo is is the first review typically a negative or a very positive one and as people give their twentieth thirtieth fortieth review do do points kind of mellow out batteries. You know that that is interesting. <hes> we haven't we haven't done that study but if i had to guess how that would kind of play out like most businesses as they're getting started my my mom growing up like she ended allie on. I can save first hand experiences. Most businesses are especially hurt. Getting started was a wreck right like like the menu changes fifteen times in the first two months on slide. You're you're changing new products. Stop china over your hours might change like you're you're. You're so focused on getting the ship to float that you're not really big event like will it sell and like i think that if i if i had to guess most people probably don't love writing like a one star review for a brand the new business so i'd bet that most kind of initial reviews skewed positive and then maybe that first ten starts being a more honest read <hes> and then over for a time if like as the business grows and evolves inserts figuring things out i would imagine that it would start trending up but that's i mean that's we haven't. We haven't done that data but i'm you. I'm gonna be all right now. I've got about fifty other studies. I want you guys to run so we'll talk about a plan. I got a whole list of it goes to put together. We'll do it together. We'll <hes> we'll have you back on the show to talk about new stuff. How do you guys. I know you mentioned. You're gonna building out a larger content marketing team. Being which we think is terrific obviously <hes> how do you guys use social as yelp using social for for customer service in your own words. If you've got businesses or consumers <hes> who who have an issue with the platform are they reaching out to you on twitter facebook instagram etcetera. How does that all that work yeah so we right now for for businesses <hes> we primarily focus on twitter as a consumer like consumer platform. We have instagram twitter. I and we also had some pages for all local communities so so yelp has kind of an interesting an interesting challenge not like where national brands but also we have these really robust local communities throughout <hes> show the country so <hes> what my local business outreaching does is we have like people in certain markets it's kind of out the country who are kind of either managing region or or that city and doing events there and and really cultivating community <hes> but there are counterparts were the consumer side who are really you know cultivating that elite community so like right now for businesses focus on twitter and we of course like kinda the best practices there of responding promptly <hes> you know saying on top of it like that that is something that our social team actively manages <hes>. It's something that we actually are very recently getting into as our organization is betraying in our in our marketing organizations which are in <hes>. That's a channel that were definitely building out and something that we see. She has more important so shameless plug at yelp for business. If you're looking for a business owner tips advice but while that will probably expand. I think you you know like other other. Communities and other spaces are relevant there as well like lincoln facebook instagram which are social team is it keeps on telling me is really important. I think i struggle with that. One a little bit because i like it's just visual that i find that you know what tends to do. Well will <hes> and what we are really good as more of the information side of things so you know i will still be convinced by them and you know but again like this is is like that is their expertise and i defer to the experts in in situations like that john. I'm i'm curious as it relates to content marketing for yelp which again in and it's it's by definition a kind of content type of company with all this user generated content as you look at content marketing. Something is a question that our listeners probably asked themselves selves. I see kind of three ways that you could use it. You could talk about yelp like you're talking about and how you manage reviews your product being it on the i tuned store or the <hes> the android marketplace you talk about how your customers retailers and establishments use yelp to to manage and curate engage with customers or or you can talk about the end consumer and how they get all this information talk about how you kind of balance. Those priorities are those pillars. There are other pillars that i haven't thought about yeah so why things and actually this is you know right out of right outta the jaber talk <hes> we kinda go with that like you know seven eight or nine to to one ratio where like ideally that is that is what we're doing for <hes> we because we haven't had a super <hes> like haven't had a super robots this country marketing program what we're doing right now is. We're just covering the groundwork like we're we're. We're doing some of that like product marketing go to market launch on ch pieces that we frankly probably should've add <hes> when we brought some these products so you know basic guides for products in entity oriels and end video clinton and some of that so <hes> we're doing some that brown that groundwork so i would say that that ratio is a little bit out of whack for us right now <hes> we when we started our content marketing program we actually worked with an agency who did some keyword research for us and the keyword research and kind of the topic that they decided on <hes> that we started to try to kind of go deep with toubon <hes> we've kind of found. His is a little bit to broaden. I think this is a challenge. All quanta marketers have is like the help metallica's really wonderful but it does have to have kind of adjacency to what you're talking out so <hes> example this as we're building our content marketing team and actually where we're interviewing somebody to to be my boss exciting. <hes> is like we have to like if you're taking a piece about how financing your small business and you'll get yelp and you look at a credit card company or a bank or anything like that like you know nine out of ten times. Somebody's probably going to go with that bank. <hes> and the pizza content from that bank card's yelp so how do we kind of tighten a narrower scope and our focus to things that are really adjacent to what we're doing as a company and that we're using thing is he's almost like bridge topics and bridge subjects that like you know we're talking to finance or probably five steps before we can. We can pivot that through successor articles all the things like that into conversation more directly about yelp but if we're talking about something like improve your customer service. We're talking about something like you know <hes> creating trusted consumer or or something like that then maybe we're only one or two steps away from getting them to read something directly about yelp. So <hes> like the reality is our <unk> are ratio is not yet in that ideal spot <hes> but like the good news is like once we do and we clear the unclear groundwork land cleared this brush than going forward. That's something that we strategically have really aligned on in early as i like where we are down to help right and we're here to help <hes> and with content marketing. It's it's not about like like selling cheer costumer. It's communicating to your customer communicating with your customer without selling going to them. I'm gonna think onto mark is what we do that is is everything but communicating to our customer while selling to them so <hes> that's. That's really okay how we think about the different in helping yelp is just one letter so keep they go on a t-shirt near you. I think it's it's <hes> it's a really great idea because there's a lot of misinformation misinformation disinformation in the business community about yelp and how it works and how you should handle it in those kinds of things and i think that's partially because the company hasn't done <hes> a ton of content marketing historically and you know <hes> nature aboard vacuum right and so so without information from you people are going to kind of draw their own inclusions or or rely on other sources of content marketing so yeah i think it's going to benefit the organization to to lean in to that approach speaking of leaning in the one the thing i wanted to ask you before we get to the big two if you told us off air that you are a near legendary perhaps truly legendary billiards player a pool shark and so i want. I want you to touch on that a little bit because you don't get a lot of pool sharks here in the social pros podcast <hes> to become a pool shark requires a great deal of time and effort and i and and i want to know how that happened in why you chose to make that your <hes> your one thing yeah so that's a near legendary i i'm i'm i'm also a fan of hyperbole so thank you but the so when i was a kid my parents type around divorced when i was a kid and my <hes> my dad lived in nash winning hampshire in <hes> turns out other than the mall others not too much to do and nash owning hampshire <hes> so open and confirmed that that there's not that i mean you know there's there's no day but back in the day like as a as a thirteen year old or a ten year old kid who was like respond world which is like in fact a very fun world world <hes> and then there was definitely mall in the mirror is there was pool <hes> so so my dad was just like you. He always played pool kind of growing up so he would shake me and like initially. I was like really bad and my dad has a hilarious guy because he is like mercilus like he doesn't. He doesn't believe in like kitty. Rules will are like oh. You got to shots because you can barely hold us jack like he will he he is. I will destroy you and like you will learn like trial by fire. The only time i everyone was when he like accidentally scratched on the ball so so that was that that was my childhood <hes> and like so from there. I was just like well. I'm gonna get really good at this and then when i moved to new york i right after school i you know tried out a bunch of different activities and just trying to like make make friends and things like that and could always enjoy enjoy doing was like everybody in new york. <hes> seems to have able so <hes> we would always i would just always end up playing there and then through that i actually met somebody who is in a league league on it turns out that new york has a really awesome l._g._b._t._q. Fully and i ended up joining that league and then briefly before i relocated san francisco is actually the president of the league <hes> so really it started as something that <hes> like i just picked up as a kid and really enjoy doing and then when i moved to new york it was a great way past. <hes> pass socialized <hes>. Let me tell you this <hes> playing pool as an adult is really a lesson in state dependent memory which i'm not sure if you're familiar with that that is <hes> but state dependent memory has been much like if you learn something in a certain state like say after a couple of drinks you are going to be best in that when that state has relegated ahead so really wolf becoming good at pool is also having to be kinda good at pool in multiple states of your life and in multiple states in itself so it is multiply that hundred hours by three uh-huh learn learn it three different times pretty much pretty much yeah. It's it's it's amazing. I feel like i feel like pool and darts. It's and billiard and pool. Let's pool darts and bowling. I think all share the same contradiction in that you know if you have a couple of beers you all of a sudden get better and then you get a lot worse right. There's there's like this. Roller coaster. Bell curve the wow. This couple beers is really helping me focus and then it goes right right off the rails at least grants. I remember volume funny mentioned bowling in my first job. I remember like you know we had this big. I was at macy's and we had this big lake. <hes> team oxide gonna just before the holidays and my boss is like oh like the woman who's in charge of our entire division vision is really good at bowling or do you like. Are you going. I'm like no. I'm like terrible bowling and of course he got the party out of all the drinks and like i bowl the turkey how the boss my boss is just like. Are you kidding me right now and like me and my lady who's the head of the divisions like all high fives all over the place like loving. My bosses just like what is going on. I thought you said you weren't gonna bullying and i was like i wasn't apparently i'm not that bad. John carroll is the senior manager of local business outreach <hes> yelp and also an expert at all bar games evidently so if you ever run across it minute conference do not play him for money at anything that is is my advice john. We're gonna ask you the two questions we've asked everybody here on. This sort of pros podcasts all way back for our first episode in two thousand twelve january of two thousand twelve to be specific. <hes> first question is if you could give somebody somebody wanted somebody who's looking to become a social pro. What would you tell them yeah. I mean this is. This is probably a tip <hes> that you've heard before but it just simply like know who you are trying to become a pro at talking to <hes>. I think that that is like knowing your audiences is the single almost important thing that you can do and oftentimes you don't know you're nearly as well as you think you find somebody else who's trying to talk to same or similar audience and learn from them <hes> so i'd say figure out who you're talking to know more and then find a mentor who can actually coach you and help you and mentor doesn't have to necessarily be a tangible i._r._l. Mentor <hes> that mentor can be the website or the content that you or that you followers subscribe to that you that you kind of brush up on a podcast that you listen to a webinar or that. You know you tune in to regularly. I don't think i don't think mentor necessarily has the most conventional definition these days. That's terrific advice. I think that's that is spot on and one of the ways you can learning metro. Audiences actually pay attention to your views and really listen to what people are saying last question for you. John carroll is if you could do a video call with any living living person <hes> who would it be and why preferably professional billiards player but you so other fun fact about me <hes> when i was at indiana he ended university bloomington shot up to bloomington jay <hes> i was a finance marketing art history major so have have always loved <hes> art and museums when i was in <hes> denmark we're onto the louisiana and there happened to be this marina abramovich <hes> <hes> exhibit and it's very seldom. I think that like when you are walking through museum like you turn a corner u._c. Something like just like makes you stop and unlike feel viscerally like anxious or excited or whatever it is and i remember going through the museum turning the corner and there was this one piece that i definitely recommend that you look up and it's called rest energy and it's marina and her partner who who lay and she is holding the shopped of a bow and arrow and it is there is an arrow nocturne it and he is pulling the string back and they're kind of leaning backwards in this the on the arrow pointed right utter heart <hes> and it is one of the most difficult tense nerve racking things that you can possibly watch and even in the context of a museum exhibit that you know she lives for another gig alive like you can see some of the words that she's making now talk of two years ago like whatever it is still just like so difficult and exciting using blotch so <hes> for me i think i think just sitting down and talking to her and actually just letting her talk abby would be phenomenal terrific answer. We'll make linked up in the show notes so to see that peace. We'll find a we'll find an image of it. <hes> put it on social pros. Dot com will have a transcript show and also will link up to some of the research resources <hes> the john and his team have created because you can grab those as well john thanks so much for being on the show terrific job congratulations on all the great success at yelp and your billiards accomplishments as well. Thank you here in bloomington. Come back for homecoming or something. We'll <hes> we'll do it up. Find a pool table on just completely. Give you all my mother. He's john from yellow. Peas also adam brown from a sales force marketing cloud. I'm jay baer from convincing and read. This has been hopefully your favorite favor podcast in the whole darn world is the social pros podcasts if you hadn't had a chance to leave us a rating review on itunes spotify stitcher wherever you get your podcast. That'd be super cool if if you did that. We'd really appreciate it. We'll be back next week with another fantastic guests. Don't forget every single episode is on social pros dot com. We'll see them. Thanks much.