One Flew Over the Cuckoos Nest v Ratched
talk never never say hello everybody. Welcome to forty going on fourteen. I m patrick joel. And i'm josh and watching. One flew over the cuckoo's nest and wretched. This week is backing up my theory that if your name is mildred. You're one of two things so somebody's grandma or fucking evil or somebody's evil grandma. Oh yeah i guess you could be. Both i need to modify this theory or somebody fucking evil grandma all right well. Let's address the elephant in the podcast. First of all. Mike is not here this week. Instead we have a guest star in blake from history of bad ideas. Everybody say hi blake. Hi thank you wanna give it a little bit of information about yourself sure. Of course hey Coming to you live from the cincinnati. Ohio History of bad ideas You're can find a son. Twitter facebook You know it's great to be back. I haven't seen you guys over a year. I was kind of missed out on the fact that there was no gen pan in person. This past year is normally. I like to come up and bother you guys. You wash your instinct game shows. And i've i've grown a full inch over the last year sideways out. You know we are. We are podcasting brethren. I think we started shortly. After you guys in i know we've crossed pollinated in the past several times back and forth though. I do have to ask. When did you guys move onto fifty going on fifteen. We're getting there. I mean. I was not yet forty when we started this seven eight years ago. I was the. I still am the baby of the group. I was like thirty seven thirty eight when we started. And we're up seventeen and a half months away from being fifty. That's and i'm the first one. Yup and then mike and then me and then eventually josh eventually me. Yeah so yeah. Actually you guys will eventually be able to drive right eventually. What for now. You'll find us at twelve not twelve noon on saturdays. We're not twelve noon on saturdays anymore. We're still on geek. Life radio though along with such shows as all things transform rush the shining wizards wrestling podcast. Html all the things. And klay radio's own red dead radar the sh- mortgage borg bom bom bom that getting there. It's definitely not it though. How events eventually but for now you can find us on. Itunes blueberry stitcher. Talk shoe padras. Fm noon fm dot com a spotify iheartradio tune in radio amazon music. And of course we're always on pod being where we'd be happy to have any of your reviews or ratings and you can reach us all the normal places social media and give us a call at seven or eight. Now wrap that seven eight six nine nine. Seven two seven ditto. Do we have any listener feedback. Speaking of which any point smells emails. None of that no no. Nobody loves us. What a much jerks he said because he totally checked the voicemail number. I think he did. I was convincing. Your bluff definitely worked on roll all right well. Then without further ado. I think it's about that time. Bruce week music movies t and speaking our. I don't know. I can't do the high voice because it loses me. So that's we don't do that voice either because i mean we want that lost and that it's not going anywhere all right. We'll see if that caught this weekend. Doing november nineteenth nineteen seventy five. The release of one flew over the cuckoo's nest right so music. The number one song in the land was island. Girl by elton. John followed up by lionized by the eagles. Too good songs. Yeah a watching you know not that one. No not that. One is is probably. The song went comes to fronting a band. I have sung more than any other. Yeah i could see that. Yeah it's just wild because Like it almost doesn't matter your age. You probably know that song. It's fairly easy to play and it's just a nice easy easy listening type song that if you don't listen to it sounds like you know it's it's about a nice couple if you don't listen to the words kind of like that's also true of island girl. Don't listen to the words. It's probably about a nice couple. No it sounds like it's about a nice couple. If you don't listen to the words okay never mind. Same is also true of berserk point. Yeah i think. I may have lost my point somewhere. Move along sign. would you like to making. I think he's talking about romantic. Love thing of the world sound like a nice couple point taking no shut up. All right so queen's bohemian. Rhapsody went to number one in the uk where it remained for the last five seventy five and the first four weeks of nineteen seventy six. Otherwise known as the wayne's world song yes Yeah it definitely made. It definitely made a big difference in in the everlasting success of but he mean rhapsody for sure. Like i'd heard queen before wayne's world came out but i'm not entirely sure i had heard bohemian rhapsody more than once it really wasn't. I mean it was kind of semi popular when it first came out but it was like a flash of the pain and only lasted a couple of weeks at number one. it wasn't like phenomenon or anything right. What i would have known would have been. We are the champions and we will rock you before world after that. Like i celebrated their whole catalogue said previously talking about queen. I mean it's still. I'm in love with no. I'm in love with my car. But i mean what is okay. Well then why why why. Why why why do you do that. bring up. i'm in love with my car. yeah. Brian may need some love once in a while. O'brien may is amazing. That song is but though moving on. Should i a bicycle joke here. That song is not good either. But i like that song. It's not working one song. It's a fun song. Fund sucks at bottom girls my best friend those are great songs headlong thinned iron eagle and i love that ending right. Yeah speaking of which. Thank you patrick for that video. You're welcome did look delicious. All right moving on travis. Barker drummer for blink. One eighty two and plus forty four was born in fontana california on november. Fourteenth was pretty confused by that blink minus one to plus four four. Just sort of weird algebra in the show notes. You too much homework. I think it's new math. I have to solve for blink. What the hell is released. November eighteenth the fourth studio album by rufus rufus featuring chaka khan eventually won nineteen seventy-six billboard album of the year one a patrick's favorite artists. Shocker chuck check a great eighty song. Yeah see and just another step in my lifelong proof of seventies musicians. This album shock. I was good back then and in the eighties fell apart like wet elephant poop. Just all the if you were good musician in the seventies you sucked in the eighties. That's the thesis a win that also carry over for rock bands that went into the disco era and then came back out in the eighties. This rolling like the rolling stones disc album. I forget what was at or even kiss even at some disco songs too. Yeah i really got sucked. Med yeah i know that's not going to make the show trying to think somebody to disprove that but so far would have come up with. We've occasionally taking issue with a couple of points but usually even if we love the song in the eighties. Patrick will not abandon his thesis. I would. I believe you're about seventy percent true. You just believe you're about ninety five percent true. Yeah because you like some songs that suck like. I just called to say i love you as much as i love. Stevie wonder that's a bad song it's just saccharin and crappy. There's like the the the backbeat is like like a casio preset backbeat. It's just the whole song. It's sappy and shit and i've got one that's not as good aren be stuff. You're absolutely right. Yeah michael jackson. All of his stuff is in the eighties. Yeah but he had quite career in the seventies as well. True could stuff. There's at least one dress better in the seventies to if you have to go to basically one of the most transcendent pop stars of all time to find your champion. I'll i'll give you that concession. Because there's not a whole lot of michael jackson's out there well then i'm writing this down. My diaries. patrick said something good. And if you're going to stevie wonder you can't just cherry pick because part time lovers amazing and it was in the eighties. I don't know. I don't know i seriously would not call that song beijing. I mean it's okay. It's got a decent beat. You know but. I mean the lyrics are kind of repetitive. And you know it's basically a song about About adulterers so. I don't know how great a bit of a soggy it is. I mean it's okay being about adulterers. That's that's relevant in the same way that we're talking about lionize. Don't listen to the lyrics. Goes to those about nice couple questionable island girl island girl question mark and finally dirks bentley. american country singer was born in phoenix arizona on february nineteenth on. Sorry oh yeah. This is real bentley's nine studio albums have accounted for twenty five singles on the hot country songs and country airplay charts of which seventeen of reached number one seven more of a singles have reached the top five. And i can't name a why can't name one either. Oh his big one was one of his first ones to If you if you ain't lovin. No that's that's george strait and i actually looking biggest hits and i still don't know any given name of the of the first one that came to run kind of plane no not that. That's literally his biggest hit. Because that's how google what's after the end long them gone. What was i thinking. That's the one that i know. Yeah yeah nothin about training and tears and beers and pickup trucks. Oh yeah what was i. Thinking is all about that kind of stuff good. It's all about his regrets of what he did while he was drinking. So i know what i was drinking but what was i thinking is a drinking. That's the only way to fly only with into the word. So i thought it was about a nice couple pilots. Shut all right. Moving adds a movies. A number one movie in the land was three days of the condor. A political thriller directed by sydney pollack and starring. Robert redford faye dunaway. Cliff robertson. And max von psycho. This mike would have seen for sure for sure. The only the only thing. I remember this movie is a weren't. They like a racing car on the highway next to the ocean. That's the only thing i remember. And i've seen condor man. I've seen alan re days of the condor i. I don't think i've ever seen this. I think max. Von sydow was eighty years old at the time too so so this is ten years after he was born. I mean it's got a hell of a cast. What i don't think yeah a guy. Maybe i may have to watch this. Movie's release this week included. Are you know what you know what i was thinking. I was thinking of the graduate. Somebody sorry two very different similar cars and roads and you know california. Coast way all right. I'm sorry i wish they thinking give warriors movies released this week. Included stardust in of the damned inserts macintosh and tj fear over the city permission to kill the human factor and the acronym of the week which is a a hd which i'm pretty sure stands for abba brutalizes. Hungarian disco regular waterloo. Nope sorry. I can't believe that's not what it is. It is actually a boy and his dog. That's the only one of these. I've seen hughes close. I don't think i've seen any of those in. If that's the case if these movies released this week you know. One of the kookiness had a very good shot of becoming as popular as it did if this was the competition not good. I want to see macintosh and tj again. Have you seen that. Sounds like a buddy cop show right his dog or his monkey. I know joel. And i watched a boy and his dog together. That's the one with back. Travolta it's miami vice of boy. A boy boy macintosh tj. That premieres right after a ten speed and brown shoe. You're thinking of don johnson on. Just yes dick sifi Movie that is boring shit. I believe it's a little rabi to guess who was macintosh and tj. It was at the prequel to be j and the bear is a story of the forming of apple and trader. Joe's that was fair over the city moving on tv hate moving onto television. That's my cue. The top shows in the land were all in the family. Rich man poor man laverne and shirley and maud. That's a that's a good line up right there. It's linda rollercoasters. With that is 'cause i don't know maud. I never liked maude as a kid. I never like maude. But as an adult. I've seen some episodes and it's not as bad as i thought it was. You know maybe. I need to revisit as an adult i do. I haven't watched it in a long time. So someone to reboot maude. It's gone the yeah. You're right all the just wait. That's what hollywood does i hope. Reboot liberated shirley i. Oh no i. I was as a latchkey kid. I mean i was baby sat by vernon sherline. Oh i love that show so much. My my cat is named booboo. Kitty all that so appropriate. Yeah yeah it's it's too it. And of course i mean how can you how come let lending squeaky never got their own spin off show. Yeah try not. They may have did. Maybe that's why. I don't remember it if it didn't go that well the lone wolves the lone wolves exactly and why didn't milk and pepsi ever take all right. Never mind i. It's it's a sped. It tastes like a a flat shake. I was going to ask if you had tried it. Yup okay. I have answer. They did make a pilot for a lengthy squeaky in the army show and it was not picked up in the army. What did they get drafted for vietnam or something. I guess yeah it was the head writer of laverne and shirley was asked that question why there was never a spin off and they made a pilot was called lenin square. You in the army and abc passed on it. Yeah what a horrible setting for the two of them. Why would you rhythm in a place that restricts the shit out of them like. They're not gomer pyle. You know they can't. They're not just going to go along with everything. Oh that's just i mean. Maybe that's the comedy they were going for the to greece being forced into the army being drafted and then the horrors of war. Good team squeaky edition. It wasn't a sitcom. It was a drama. That's let just often the corner rocking back and forth chewing on his hand. He's got a gun in his mouth in the bathroom then mash gone wrong. Letting squeaky mashed. Oh my oh okay So i guess. I should move on november. Twenty third sneak previews the first american film review. Show premiered this. Launched the careers of your guys. Chicago's critics gene. Siskel robert heaver. Who remained a staple among film critics as a team through various programs for the next twenty four years and i must add much copied in imitated even to this day. Oh for sure. I think everybody myself included forgot. Their show wasn't just called cisco any work. It was actually called sneak previews i'd completely forgotten that. I used to love watching that. Even though i hadn't seen half the movies at the time it was on the air probably not even that many. I always enjoyed watching it. Yeah i always had a good time to listen to this to bainer back and forth. you know they. They had some good conversation. Good chemistry and and Really enjoyed them very much as as much as i disagreed with a lot of their views. Especially roger ebert a lot of respect for that man and if you guys haven't seen his the documentary life itself It's really it's really good. It's a little hard to watch. Sometimes after he has his job removed. Yeah that's right. He had jockey answer right. It's a little jarring to watch but yeah but the technology. They used considering how much talking he'd done to basically recreate his own voice. Now it's pretty cool. Apparently only called sneak previews from seventy seven to eighty two. Then it was at the movies from eighty to eighty six and then it was just siskel and ebert with what i remembered from. Eighty six to ninety nine. I vaguely remember. All three of these shows. I remembered it is at the movies. I remember that had does my first introduction to them to all right now. I know you guys are waiting for this one on november sixteenth. Donny and marie. An american variety show debuted the show starred brother and sister. Donny and marie osmond. Donny had become popular singing a music group because he was a little bit rock and roll the osmond's and marie You know one of the youngest sister's to reach number one in the billboard country music with charts with paper roses because she is a little bit country. Yes i watched the show. Obviously i do not have happy memories of the show. It's definitely something i watched. It was one hundred percents. Something i watched because i don't know i don't know if you guys remember that little secret embarrassing confession. I made one show about this whole my former. Love for donny osmond. I wanted to be him. He was kind of cool. I used to tell people. I used to tell people that was my name i i was. I went through a phase where i was like signing. My paperwork is done teachers teachers by bye by elimination figuring out who it was. You know wearing a football helmet painting black and calling it. His hair color shirts bell bottom pants right split making very subtly overtly so subtle overtly sexual innuendo between me and my sister. You know that kind of stuff y through mix things up brought in their other twenty brothers and sisters from utah. Far too much hugging going on here on set. Do you know i. I would have to say in regards to her Health food commercials is. She's aged very well. It's either that or she had a very good plastic surgeon combination of both. Yes she she looks great. Yeah it's amazing now donnie. I can't say. I haven't seen him so he was yeah. He was on the singer season. Two or season one. Oh wow yeah. And he looked to they both. They both look like they're in their early forties genetics. They made a deal with the devil. It that's how they got their show. Wouldn't it be ironic. Don't think moving on you said trademark that real quick. Because i think you do have a good movie there. Donny and marie got their show. Donnie and marie and the devil. The devil makes three devil and masailand or a netflix series. Oh that's that's a likelihood true crime documentary but the osmond's trying to think it would be called. I don't know but they're gonna have tiger king interview. He actually like fits their era and genre of clothes and hair. I mean he's dead in. It's probably trying to play to the other chat. Josh yes yours. You were saved by octa infusing play. What a four believes moving onto sports on february nineteenth cincinnati reds. Second baseman joe. Morgan was named nationally. Mvp ray for cincinnati on february eighteenth calvin murphy of the houston rockets ended his then. Nba record streak of fifty eight games with a made free through cincinnati. Today actually wasn't his because somebody coughed when he was on the line. That happens all the time. Though i mean or i know i know what it was squiggly noodle the first time the squiggly noodles made their appearance in the nba arenas team on army with lenny noodle. That's right. Chris moneymaker american poker player. Who's two thousand and four win. At the world. Series of poker main event sparked the modern day poker. Boom was born november twenty first and that should say two thousand three win two thousand and four that his real name. Yes that actually is his real name. Which is one of the reasons him winning with such a big deal because it made such good television he was. It was an accountant named moneymaker and he entered a eighty dollars tournament online to win a seat into a bigger tournament to win a seat into the ten thousand dollars by tournament and he wanted to turn amounts and got into the main event and ended up winning the whole thing. And it's been a millionaire ever sets because talk about being Shoehorned in by your name right now and it caught on. He went on. I mean it's honestly literally part of the reason why i could make a living in poker. Is chris moneymaker because he got so popular at it. Made it made poker so popular so fast and so quick. He was on letterman. He was on I mean he was. He was doing book tours. And you know all kinds of stuff and it made an enormous poker boom that we're still kind of surfing the wave of. I'm glad i changed my last name. From fart sniffer festival. Moneymaker you'd take it never live. You would have had at least not shit scheffler right. Say who's who's the guy. He beat to win. That poker championship is it is last name. Like fourth street checker. No actually it was. Sam farr who was from houston and he's a guy that i actually have dealt to and i know him. Wow yeah he. He lives here in huston. He plays in some of the games i do. I smelt it joel marx. Never grenade i yeah. I started thinking about an idiot. All right let's get the hell out of this tweet. This last bullet. Point jason williams. Nba point guard and member of the two thousand six nba. Champion miami heat was born in belle west. Virginia on november eighteenth nicknamed the white chocolate he was known for flashy jaw-dropping plays on the court not to be confused with a shotgun williams from the nba. Right yeah not a big big difference. Big big difference indeed difference. Can you imagine being jason williams dummy dead jason williams and then having another jason williams come through and just like totally screwing up. It'd be like chris. Moneymaker had a twin brother who just sucked at poker was bankrupt. It's instead of winning the w. sob shot the dealer. Might the last boy scout and instead of being account he was like a busboy or soccer. Oh my god we need to get out of this tweet keyboard joel. He got the same musical talent that we have in our podcast. All right. so this week's show we are doing. A one flew over the cuckoo's nest versus the new network show. Wretched has one season on it. we'll be covering that in the now but for the then we're gonna talk about the one thousand nine seventy five like i said. One flew over the cuckoo's nest A quick summary here Written by jacob oberfrank whoever that is familiar with that name everybody knows jacob over for his name is my name to all right. Mcmurphy has for the jingle hammerschmidt joke and you did not disappoint. I don't like to disappoint. i don't like to just do something. A lot doesn't mean. I like to do it like then i like to do that don't we. All mcmurphy has a criminal past and has once again got himself into trouble and his sentence by the court to escape labor duties in prison mcmurphy pleads insanity at a set to award for the mentally unstable once here mcmurphy both endures and stands witness to the abuse at degradation of the oppressive nurse wretched who gained superiority and through the flaws of the other inmates mcmurphy and the other inmates band together to make a rebellious stance against the atrocious nurse. Wretched fairly reasonable summary. It's a little wordy but it's good. Yeah i i don't know if i'm jumping the gun or not. But was nurse. Ratchet really oppressive in this movie nebi. Now that i watch it as an adult as compared to you know a young child. I remember watching this movie with my dad. You know because he is a big jack. Nicholson fan and i remember back. Then you know kinda disturbed by but he is an adult and it doesn't nurse kind of get a bad rap in this. I think this is definitely something. We shouldn't safer later for sure that it's definitely something we need to talk about. I think that's a great question. But i think yeah. We're we're jumping a little too far off in the deepen from the beginning up cast and crew and some trivia and we'll we'll circle back. Yeah so this is a directed by meals foreman By her to him. Yeah for sure that was. That was a trick question. Okay jokey joke yeah. He has directed Lot of lot of things Each known throughout hollywood so. I don't think i needed this go through his list. Everybody knows him right. We lose. I mean the big ones. Like amadeus people. Versus larry flint. This is probably the biggest man on the moon. I don't know. I like that one. A lot hair beautiful. Hey i like here. It's one of my favorite musicals. Yeah all right. So i guess we'll go over a couple of things he did. Yeah yeah meals foreman The writing credits Lawrence how been goldman and the novel was originally written by ken. Cassie read the novel. Yes i have as well. So yes i i have read the novel a young adult having seen the movie i it was a pleasant surprise. Shame here yeah. Yeah josh have you read. this is the rare normally. I'm the one of the people talking has read the book. This is the time. I'm the only one who hasn't that's great. Yeah that was going to point that out if you hadn't like this be the first time we've all read it in josh. Hasn't wow he's usually the one that's read the book For some reason we have the play version of one. Over the cuckoo's nest was written by dale wasserman. Well i mean the play was a big deal. I don't know if it's in I'm trying to get two thousand. Michael douglas stuff or kirk. Douglas douglas michael where he played mcmurphy on broadway. Yeah yeah. He handed it over to mike for this movie. He's one of the producers. That's also why is names associated with rachid. That is all correct. I'm blowing the trivia. I'm sorry that's all good. Good one of the interesting things. I wanted to say about the novel before we move on past can jesse's novel is it from the point of view of of chief himself. Which was the surprising thing. When i i read it. It's good yeah. I was not expecting that so neither was i. Honestly tell you the truth as a kindred brother there it is like oh hey because you expected to be from. Rpi rb mc. Murphy's point of view. Douse the movie. Yeah exactly and then here know cnn here and everything from his his point of view and it made the movie making a little more sense. 'cause you understand the gravitas of him talking about how you know how small he feels like now. I feel as big as a mountain right now. And you know Gives you a lot more context for his character and the things he says for. Sure for sure Before we get too much into that again let's go through the cast We're going to go through. This is an alphabetical order. I'm going to pick and choose some of these because there's a lot of them to go through The the semi famous Hey it's that guy. Michael berryman lease ellis semi famous and horror circles. He's a legend. Yeah exactly he's you know. He's known in strict circles very well and motion does not at all Moving on scatman cruthers appearing in yet another jack playing terkel the guard the easily bought terkel the guard. Yeah right a young still short. Danny devito playing martini time initiate. This is nothing his so young. An unrecognizable is sweat. God every time. I see him in the movie. I think he's bob hoskins and i was watching it with laura. I'm like all right. You're going to see some familiar faces. And she could not pick him out for the longest time. Oh wow that is awesome. Yeah he's great. Hit meanness hit me. You hit me. Joseph alec as cini one of the nurses is land fenders. I guess you know. The famous louise fletcher as nurse. Wretched herself Let fletcher what else was she in. Its wish anything. A won an academy award for this. Yeah this is obviously what she was most known for. She did a couple of star trek episodes and flowers in the attic using fire spreader. Yeah so unfortunately not not much of a career path this but she did win the academy award. I mean she was still working until a couple of years ago. Yeah still alive good career. Yeah just solidly under the radar Sydney elastic as cheswick who basically Idolized mcmurphy wanted to be his little lackey much as he could until the day. They elected electrocuted the shit out of him and then he realized that murphy was not as for hero. Christopher lloyd a another one for loyd never answer you may know him as from such things as taxi back to the future when he bucks who framed roger rabbit and it's interesting that you got to taxi along here in this movie. Yep yeah that's true. We plays taber. Another one of the inmates ellsworth another inmate his played by dwight marshfield. One of the two girls that get snuck in who's the other girl rosenberg. Andy rosen candy. Rose being played by louisa moritz and candy being played by muse. Small yen louisa. More it's She was a stock like seventies. She was in a coupla cheech and chong movies. She was in death race but not death race. Two thousand death rates two thousand with david carey. Yeah she was she was in the jews in the rockford files like a happy. Hooker goes to washington like she was a standard female actor if they needed somebody pretty for a movie in the seventies kind of like christopher lloyd moving onto the next one these star of the show the famous a- jack nicholson again like meals. Foreman do i really need to go into his cv. Jack nicholson one of the most famous members of hollywood. This early film of his before he was huge. This was a movie that kind of almost made him the first movie. Well we're going to get in a trivia. I'm sure you're talking about the oscars. So yeah but he plays the arpey mcmurphy randle. Patrick mcmurphy the lead of the movie. The spark macguffin the the guy who makes everything happened the anti hero. Yeah really is then next. William redfield Famous character actor playing harding and his last role. If i remember correctly or pretty close to eat he died like the next year. After this will sampson as chief brandon juicy fruit. He was so good. Yeah this is. This is a great role. Obviously Vincent chevelle as frederickson. Another one of the inmates who like a very much very much like michael. Barone is not known by most but very well known by certain circles. Oh for sure like. He is a very distinctive character actor. Yep yeah when you see him you like. I know that guy. Yeah you're absolutely right. It is like i know that guy in boy does he look good in. This film is at part. I mean he played a lot of different things in men in black because he fit the fit the roles very well he's also boast in ghost. Yeah and then. Lastly the one last one talk about is very very young. Brad dorothy billy bibit participant pivot this. This was the first movie he was in the an introducing credit at the end of the Opening credits in what an action there. Yeah brad door. Who if you're not familiar with brad door Get familiar. there's odds are that you have been seen at least a dozen movies. He's been in and not even known it is a yeah one of the things that bothered me when i was watching this again for homework for this episode. I said i kept looking at Billion like i know that guy really know that guy because he saying things got very distinct is and facial features and stuff and then. Of course i had to cheat and go look it up because i can pinpoint it like. He's wormtongue. yeah. I mean some of the things he's been we go through it. He played the dock in deadwood yet. Doc cochran is where. I usually think of him. I that are star trek. He's been he's been in What else chucky yeah. He played the voice of chuckie. Yeah yep he's in Nightwatch with you gregor which is a personal favorite of mine to share. I mean he's he's he's a chameleon of an actor he liked gary oldman just disappears in his roles. He was sheriff bracket in the nba halloween films which was probably my favorite part of those films his portrayal but yeah so Very very young bread fun fun to watch him. Actors s off from a young age right. So moving onto trivia will samson as chief brandon was a park ranger in oregon near where the movie was filmed. He was selected for the part because he was the only native american the casting department could find your match the characters incredible size. I knew that actually thank god. He had some acting ability. I mean you know 'cause he doesn't say a lot but he still has to interact and play that character. And all things considered i i'd say nailed it for character. That doesn't say a lot. He's got a lot of presence in the movie. Yes in when he does speak. It's very it's very soft. You know contrary to like somebody that big you would be so this over boasts louise fletcher was so disturbed by her own performance that she couldn't watch the film for years by this. Really gonna come by another one of these bullet points. She was so upset with the fact that other cast members could laugh and be happy during filming while she had to be cold and heartless that near the production. She removed her dress at stood only her panties to prove the cast members. She was not a quote. Cold hearted monster the seventies admit those format. You know he does require some nude scenes letting squeaky were unavailable working. They were in the army and dean are. Bricks was a psychiatrist and director of the oregon state hospital where the film was made during filming bricks. Correctly diagnosed william redfield with leukemia. That would kill him. Eighteen months later they know how to him. That sucks. you're on this big movie that went on to you. Know be this huge academy award winning phenomenon. And what's your memory of it. I found that. I had cancer and then eventually passed away. That's dnr brooks was the guy who played doctor spivey the one who checked him in and everything and gave him his entrance interview interesting and lastly something i was gonna say earlier second of only three movies the other two being it happened one night and the silence of the lambs to win every major academy award meaning best picture best actor best actress best director best screenplay adapted or original so it was a good movie yeah to all right yeah is okay so yeah that's the cast a trivia and now is the time can macintosh tj so. I'll start with the traditional question. Even though i know the answer. This is not anyone's first time watching this. I presume no it is. It is interesting. I haven't seen this probably for maybe twenty years. I mean when. I first saw this like i said earlier when i was a kid i was watching it with my dad and then of course later i read. The book was pleasantly surprised sales from chief's perspective better and then you know like i just watched it this weekend. You know to get ready for you guys. And i watched it again. I'm like man. This is a really good movie. And then through different prism. Like i brought before in the movie version. I i don't think louise fletcher place. Such a horrible person is is mildred. I- rachid i look at it now and i'm like well. She's doing her job. She's trying to keep everybody under control kenya. When i was a kid. I always thought it was like more extreme but obviously the the worst thing she did was threatened to tell billy about you know. His sexcapades His mother whether she did know him or not whether she's lying telling the truth. I don't know i see i. I work in mental health care. Basically and since i'm in special ed schools and you do not serve people giving them access to services or medication based on whether or not they're doing what you say that that's fucked up. So yeah i i do think she's definitely horrid now she. She is lighter version of the character. Then we're gonna talk about in the second half but she's definitely manipulator and rules with an iron fist and a lot of the stuff. She cracks down on its mildly disruptive like. We're not talking about people doing harm to themselves or harm to others which is in mental health. Care that's going to be like that's when you intervene. Yes but she's just like i don't like these people aren't doing exactly things my way when i say how i say. And yes she. She definitely manipulates and controls. See when i've seen this movie. I've lost count. How many times. I've seen it one of the first. Dvd's ever bought and Matt brown and i used to watch this on the regular in college Freshman year and so like it's one of those movies. I can actually actually can quote. But i tend to agree with blake and as i was watching it and then moved onto the series. Some of our methodology may not be appropriate. And especially in this day and age would be you know probably grounds for dismissal. But you know i feel like she's kinda got a little bit of a a are out to be too well. I mean in in the key. Even ken ki ki was a little surprised that she became this kind of metaphor for the whole kind of messed up system because she is trying to maintain control in a situation. That can be a little chaotic. And i i don't feel like i feel like our hearts in the right place. She's just not quite got the right tools to do the job i think. She does care about the inmates while the patients to the extent that they don't defy her. Yeah and i think that's the key is i think she sees them as inmates. Not as people and that is exactly the wrong attitude like in the wrong business if you care more about controlling you care at all about your ego. And that's the thing is she works with her ego. Like most of the problems aren't necessarily a problem. Where the unit is being disrupted and things are gonna get dangerous. It's she's taking it personally because things are supposed to be her way and they always have been and as soon as her egos threatened she snaps back and she snaps back pretty hard. How much of that as her decision though. Yeah i think. I think i don't have the perspective of you know real life and professionalism in regards to you know mental health care in and stuff but in a d you both guys bring up some really good points that i really think about but you know it it is she she snaps into that It would what do you think that. She's doing is actually defensive. Because when she's running the group therapy sessions. You know she's working. She's asking questions. He trying to get people to answer in participate in murphy's like this is all bullshit what the hell you guys doing. She's like i think she's honestly doing what she thinks is correct and right because she points out. She's like well you know she goes around the the group saying he's here voluntarily. Leave anytime you want. You know this person's here so she's probably thinking she's doing great things and making progress for these for these guys because they haven't left. They're all there voluntarily which blows mic. Murphy's mine away and sets off a pretty pretty negative spiral. Because he feels like he was you know misled but some of the stuff that happens to the other people on the ward. I don't like. I said. I don't know how much of that is is policy. How much of that is the decision. And how much hers. Because i don't know if she actually is the one that sent them for electroshock therapy or once. There was the big argument. Everybody went sideways. Whether that's your least come away. The doctor's like i take them up. They need a a dose of electroshock therapy to cool the fuck out. And i don't know how much of that was here. It's for sure that the bigger villain then. Mildred ratchet is the system and mental. Health care has been Super dysfunctional still is but like things honestly. Weren't that different from this until about twenty years ago and they're still not where they need to be eight electroshock therapy to. I remember being when i was a kid watching this for the first time i was is by elza unbelievable. I'm like holy crab. They used to electrocute people's brains for this kind of stuff and and it is kind of interesting in following up a little bit with ken. Casey is you know Having him worked in the. Va you know where some of this stuff comes from. You know the guys that you want a good biography you go back and learn about this guy but you know and this is a this is a man who wrote this book in regards to shock therapy. That hoped himself up to a car battery and had his buddy shock and so they can feel. It's to figure out what it's like but you're right. It's almost like How somebody in a mental health care facility where you're supposed to be taking care of these people. Put them through this. Such a what i would consider a horrible and barbaric treatment. I mean as well. And and ken. Casey base nurse ratchet off an actual person That that was on where he worked. She was the head nurse there And i saw i. When i was doing some research. He was quoted that when he saw her again years later he said she was much shorter and much. More human than here remembered so you know perspective. I think that goes to the point of them being there voluntarily. They walked in voluntarily. But when you get into that situation with the staff it's almost like you create your own cage like after a certain point you've got this institutional mindset where even though technically illegally can you leave. Yeah but are you ever going to know. Because you're completely dependent on the structure. You obey s second nature and that's really what our anti hero is fighting against the whole institutional mindset where they're imprisoning themselves. It's that catch twenty two you know. Hey this is crazy. Yes that's correct so i'm crazy please. Grammy no the fact that you realize it's crazy means. You're not crazy so you ask you flying bombing missions. That's another episode. We we did. We did not so long ago probably like two years ago. Whenever i think something's not so long ago i find out. Oh yeah that was. Three years ago i love catch twenty but in but anyways. Yeah you'd think about it. And that's what i think is where mcmurphy in the movie stars to crack because he he's realized he's completely at the mercy of this system. Now how do you get out of the system. That says you're supposed to be there. Well and he. I mean ferrall intents and purposes at least from what i gather from the the what. We're watching the film you know and having seen it so many times. He obviously threw himself into that thinking. Okay you know go in here. You know do my sixty day evaluation or whatever and then beyond mary way or it's either way it's going to be easier than being at the work for work. He thought his sentence was sixty eight days no matter where he spent it. So why am i gonna spend it on the workforce spend it over here with all the nuts and then when he finds out. Well it's not sixty eight days if you go that route. It's when they say you can get out yup and when you're pushing back like he was i mean they have every reason to to keep you there and there are studies where there are people who did social experiments who went undercover check themselves into a mental institution and found it very difficult to get out like even once their credentials were revealed They had been forced to be medicated. They had been diagnosed and like it was very tough for them to secure release so stuff. That happens yeah. You hit on like a a phobia of mine. Is you know if you think about you know periods in history and all that kind of stuff. And then you know. Books and literature like nineteen eighty-four net not being in control your own destiny being at the complete mercy of the system. Somebody that's in control of the system in his just doing it because they know they can do it you know how do you get out. How do you escape that you're and when it comes to the staff sometimes it's like what you see is what you expect to see. You expect to see a crazy person. So you're able to interpret almost any set of behaviors and sort of like normally stress reaction. Yes exactly as being crazy. And if you're at now those situations i mean there's some wiggle room there for possible misdiagnosis. Because you know he in different situations you may react differently to that and therefore that can lead you down a different path than what maybe what happened if you would have done it al patient or if you never would have been diagnosed to begin with so you know again it It's kind of a slippery slope right i. I can only imagine what would happen. If i'd been voluntarily. Or maybe involuntarily by a family member committed like i. I don't feel that. I'm danger to society. I take care of kids. Who have this kind of thing. But like if i was in that situation could i earn insecure my freedom. I'm not confident that the answer to that question is yes but i'll fun fact. I was institutionalized twice of by choice And obviously was was made out fine on both occasions. But you know the diagnosis. I received while in the care of the hospitals was not the same diagnosis. That had once. I went into outpatient. You know psychiatrist Counselor group therapy sessions and bobby. I'm fine now so you know you never know it's Now after after putting it in this context now at little scary looking back on the schick dark fast even gotten to the right murphy that was going to save. You did end up on this podcast so That was a foregone conclusion now isn't necessarily going to bring that up when you said that it was like winning high. Do you have anything to say about. We haven't heard from you in a while. So i'm throwing you save us pat to confront you talk good talk. Yeah i to like joel. I don't. I don't know if i want to. Yeah i've spent some time in an institution like these before for suicide watching things like that in the past. And you're you're definitely right one of the worst feelings while you're in there is the feeling of. It's not up to me whether or not and not not having your own freedom. I mean it just like you know being insomniac and waking up at four in the morning and trying to go into the break room area and being told you know we're not gonna the lights on because the lights don't come until six just little things like that you know so. I'm just going to sit here on the dark. I guess it makes wanna go to prison because yeah for sure can't even i can't even imagine what the well. Yeah another fun. Another one topic. Yeah i spent seventeen hours in a holding cell once. I never got released in the general population or anything. Thank goodness but yeah that was that was fun for me for the whole thing was like okay. Well that's yeah don't wanna do that again is a turkish. Prison now is worse as a texas prison. Oh god man yeah yeah so how about the ending like since since i kind of feel. We're heading to a natural conclusion towards the break. Let's at least talk about the ending. Where our chief basically puts mcmurphy out of his misery. Iconic has a classic. Yeah well basic- basically what what has led up to. This is the fact that mcmurphy. Just it's a battle between a woman who win you. Stand up to her. She stamps you out as fast as she can because she does not play games. And then you got mcmurphy. Who is all about playing games. He's like hey. I just want to mess with you would have fun. We're having a lotta. We're we're doing some tests back and forth some ha ha. You know you do this. And i do that. He thinks he's like almost in a high stakes prank war with no just going to drop a nuclear bomb on you and when he finally snaps and tries to kill her after what she drove. Billy bibit to do when we kill himself. And he kinda snaps in realizes the stakes are real here. Tries to kill her and she says okay. Well you know being the that she is she's going to take it one step further. You're gonna attack me and tried to kill me while i'm gonna take away with you. Love the most your your freedom in your ability to think for yourself and taking her. i don't think. I don't think it was her decision. But i think it was definitely her recommendation. I definitely had a voice in that happening. You're assuming now because you never really see the decision if you if you go by the knowledge we have. Now of the show ratchet. I mean they. They make a point of talking about how the nurses run the hospital. Yeah even at that point. Doctor spivey wasn't the one that was around dealing with them all the time. It was always the is always the The guards and the the orderlies or looking for and when it comes to case management. You're going to go to the person that has. The data is collecting the data. And they're gonna make their recommendation. They're going to have the loudest voice so yeah. I definitely think ratchet personal vendetta is one of the greatest factors leads to his lobotomy. And death but i mean in a way it's kind of a pyrrhic victory for her because her voice is taken and her power sort of broken. Yeah but over. Mcmurphy is still a violent person. 'cause you get that in the past because he's had assaults your fucking that's right but so you know he is prone to violence in a remember. You know as as much of a fun loving guy. He is in the air you know he. He has pretty special pass in. He is prone to violence so but then on the flip side. I understand where you're coming from your right. You would go to her in the people that deal with them on a daily basis. You know but i'll tell you what the classic with big chief realizing what they did to him and I like the that he says. I'm going to take you with me. And then he's in the snuff some with the pillow as in like he's freeing him with his spirit right so it's almost like very symbolic almost native american symbolic i'm gonna take you with me. You know by taking his spirit with him as he finally goes and takes the idea. That mcmurphy had you know buster the window in he you know i. D iconic shot of the movie of courses him. Running you know Off into the distance running through the wall parodied on the simpsons. After you know after reading the book like we all said that he gives what he goes before he realizes he's been lobotomize. I i feel biggest mountain. Yes an emotional light at that point. I'm ready now. I have a question about this and Like i said that was founded on the simpsons but Upon watching this again and not having read the book and at least two decades i have this feeling and maybe i'm wrong. Read that when he's telling the story about his father and how you know he he. The bottle sucked the life. Out of him. I get the sense that when he Basically euthanize is big murphy. That that's the same thing he did to his father and that's why he's there. I don't know if that's true. Because i remember what what it said in the book but with the way he tells a story and then the way he ends it and what he says to him. It feels like he had done that before. As as a mercy killing. But it's a good theory. But the difference was as he'd he'd regained hisself were. I can't remember why he's in there. I haven't read the. I read the book in fucking had twenty years ago or so nineties so i don't necessarily remember why he was in there. That's a good theory. That i cannot disprove. It just felt it felt like it with the way they'd written the dialogue that that was. How great was that The whole the whole the whole boat seen take taking the boat convincing the harbormaster charter up. Professor all doctor goes through their all doctors. Except for the one nude except for harding. Professor harding everybody else's doctor. Dr martini dr. This professor harding. Danny devito said that that that that whole take that whole scene took a week to film and to this day he still gets nauseous even thinking about it should everybody but jack nicholson got seasick at one point during that week house. Good getting can i ask one question. I and i know how hollywood is and you know how hollywood can't come up with new stuff. In they loved reboot everything. So what do you think that. Is you know you kind of get it a little bit with rachid with all we'll do the prequel thing but do you think there are actually deal actually trying to remake this movie. I think ratchet turns into success. They probably will or they'll make it a series. Maybe that's the thing is. I think television shows more likely because you don't see dramas remade quite as much as other genres just like if you're doing sifi There's a fifty fifty shot if you're doing horror it's like an eighty percent chance if your movie was any good or sometimes even if it wasn't. It's getting remade. It's gonna eleven remains action comedies action comedies. Any of those fairly likely. But there's a real short list of dramas that actually remade. Yeah but it would be interesting if you would have to cast with actors from today. I i think you can almost make a good game. You know game an addendum to this podcast of who you replace. It'd be fun. But i think it would have to be a bunch of no names just like because none of these guys were known at the time. Yeah that's right. this is the movie. May jack right. And tom hardy as randolph speed. Networks i dunno played here declared bronson so the rock as chief. Tom hardy as nurse ratchet. Tom holland gonna be ronda. Rousey hollandaise billy. Bibit eddie murphy. Every other inmate and martini played by dana veto. Oh i think we're kind of headed towards a natural spot where we can take a break when we come back. We're going to talk about the ryan murphy. Prequel showing us the birth of the antagonists kuku nest wretched in the show rachid deal. When we come back. I want my cigarettes. Nurse ratchet cigarettes cigarettes great woman. We are back. thanks for waiting for us. We're going to talk about The new show rachid all about the it is a prequel to one. Flew over the cuckoo's nest talking about mildred nurse. Mildred wretched in the days before our p mcmurphy or story origin story. Exactly 'cause movie takes place in sixty. Yeah are late fifties surly six. I forget i looked this up now. I forgot yeah. They specifically mentioned the president at one point. I can't even remember who was no I think. I think it was ford during the early sixties. Yeah and the novel with sixty. Two tv show is forty seven through like fifty the first season anyway so the description taken off of net flicks is. Wretched is a suspenseful drama series. That tells the origin story of asylum nurse. Mildred wretched in nineteen forty seven. Mildred arrives in northern california to seek employment at a leading psychiatric hospital where new and unsettling experiments have begun on the human mind on a clandestine mission. Mildred presents herself as the perfect image. Of what a dedicated nurse should be but the wheels are always turning and as she begins to infiltrate the mental health care system and those within it. Mildred stylish exterior belies a growing darkness that has been smouldering within revealing. what true monsters are made revealing. that monsters are made not born man. That is a very verbose description. Thanks it's interesting that i i'm not sure. Granted i didn't hundred percent finish this. I know i'm getting a little ahead of myself but this whole true monsters are made not born. That is a description that at least at the beginning of the series is at odds with what it seems like. The series is trying to say. I watched the entire season. I did to actually. I made it fifty percent. I rarely make it through the first of these things that we watch for these shows. But this one i did. And it wasn't necessarily well spoiler wasn't necessarily out of just straight enjoyment of it was just because i started watching on my breaks at work instead of instead of just fucking around and playing gin and stuff so look to be an all growed up right ed made it. I made an adult decision patrick's growing up. He's all grows up. Let's let's get into cast in a guessing crew and series directed by ryan murphy. Did two episodes Michael up and doll two episodes nelson cragg jennifer lynch daniel minahan and jessica. You all did one episode. That is david lynch's daughter. Oh okay i did not know that. She's a director. And that is mr daul son and everybody should know ryan murphy from american horror story among many other. Yes but not from that. Sarah paulson connection. That is why it reminded me of american horror story. Okay we're gonna get to this because this is very. This is the most ryan murphy that ryan murphy ever ryan now. He's not he's the other half of his team isn't with him. He's got a different. I would've put so much ryan murphy all over this well i. I'm going to revisit get to that. So yeah series. Writing credits Ken cassie obviously for the original book. ryan murphy wrote all eighteen episodes. I guess so for developed using this well developed created and everything written by him. And evan evan romanski is that correct. Nevermind ski romanski. Six episodes written with ian brennan and to jennifer salt. I don't know any of those minor. Writers do you know I know her her sister pepper. He just wanted to pepper that in. They're gonna flavored spring. You guys he's pod all right moving on. Yeah we don't. We don't need another p like that. We had a problem. And i'll five gone with the string bean. I'm sorry so moving onto series cast. Obviously the the main star. Sarah paulson as nursing mildred rachid. You know her from such things as american horror story and everything else you watch on net flicks cheese everywhere. She's she's big right. Now is with justifiable reasons. Yes yeah and she's a particular favourite of the ryan murphy like he keeps going back to that. Well yes gasping. Her she is his muse. Apparently speaking of which the second cast member also is a ryan murphy. Favorite finn wit rock. Is that right in in there. I can't it's went rocky right okay. Been went rock plays edmund tolleson. The eze crazy is he not crazy. Is it going to the chair going to stay in the asylum edmonson killer of priests and savior of roosters lover of animals. Yeah he he plays his role really well she does. It would be scared a room with him. He's got a very intimidating presence. Yeah he he's basically the guy who's not evan. Peters who is like the other ryan murphy male lead and then of the list of Of big names actually continues down the line. We've got cynthia. Nixon playing gwendolyn briggs Mostly known for sex in the of course and she's been on broadway she's Well known actress. Judy davis as nurses. Betsy bucket judy davis Joel character aren't ya. tell us about. Judy davis the only thing. I really remember her from is New the new age with her peter weller. But she's he's an old school actress. That kind of. I mean she's still been working but she's kind of fallen off familiar to me. But i didn't know from what and knew joel. She was in barton fink. I was like waiting for you to say what. What was she barton fink. She's a minor character. Audrey taylor got movie sucked and i wanna say she was naked lunch. But i've not a hundred percent. Sure that now i think you're correct brent. What did you think of borton. Yeah she was a naked lunch. Yep she was Way of why did go you brent williams wife. Well they william burroughs characters by anyway blake. Yes have you seen barton fink a time ago. All right then you're excluded union on it because there's some dissension upon that film here. I wanted to side of the line. You were on if early. Petric's outnumbered in case fisticuffs. Come come call in. You know i wanna to know what side you were on Every every time barton fink comes up. it's very contentious. Yes all right moving on dr richard. Hanover is played by john. John briones now there. American horror story alumni. Oh is it just one season but a recent season. The huck finn again. The war veterans huck. Finn is played by jarver. I'm not familiar with him as an actor. He's he's kind of an up and comer he's done. He's got like twenty credits to his name right now but yeah he sees coming up this wealth. The new teen wolf wait. We did a show. Yeah it wasn't that bad. I was pretty wasn't horrible. It just wasn't great. Cw soap opera. Yeah exactly that's fine. He's coming out in the batman algeria. Go see up and comer. What i say you're right right and then The leftovers that's where i know him from otani. Who was he in the left overs. he was scott frost. He was stuffing. Dude all right moving on Nowhere you may know her from her storied career in hollywood miss sharon stone whose lays lenore osgood the wealthy woman looking for revenge for what dr hanover had done to her son. She was almost unrecognizable. Right well i knew. I recognize who like i was like. Who is that because she sort of fulfilled the same role type of role. That you expect jessica lang to play an american horror story. Good call. But i was like. That's not just laying. it's much younger. Holy shit that's sharon stone. Yeah she's now. You're no sharon stone. It took me a couple of episodes to figure that out next week. Amanda plummer as louis by the the the hippie. What would you call her. The peeping tom. manager yeah. I love amanda plummer. I was so happy to see her. This series nurse dolly who is The love interest. For mr. Ed mattel tillerson. This played by alice anglert. Yeah yeah suddenly. The the robot from futurama showed the cop and the the asshole of the year award goes to governor. George wilburn played vincent de frio holy shit he was an asshole held. Wow that's he'd good actor. Yeah they wrote that guy really really friendly like i think he jessica lang though for the yeah yeah. He's their visit enough rio. Which now retaining water i mean. He wasn't exactly small in daredevil no fluctuate so he really does. He goes up a lot of times for the roles. I think he wasn't. He wasn't small in the break-up either he so amazing he said yeah. I celebrate his entire catalogue. Donuts in the footlocker again. I'm back to the gun in the mounting is that sounds like the strangest euphemism of her and i don't know any of these last four need to be mentioned The very last one sofi okay. Nato played charlotte go ahead. I just mentioned her. You're supposed to say so fi. Okay nato played. You ruined my joke. Oh yes she's been in a lot of stuff like hotel rwanda. She was a minor character influx. Like i knew. I had seen her from something she's gonna be in death on the nile when it comes out. Oh she's she's done a lot of a lot of tv and she's one of those faces you see or know like i know her from somewhere but you're not necessarily sure where he realize it's everywhere yup the pivotal role in ace ventura when nature calls she the rhino the princess. That's where that's why laura who that is all right. Moving onto trivia murphy uses color in the costumes and sets to represent themes yellow equals deceit. Blue equals neutral radicals evil or badness. Whitey was purity. Green equals honesty. Sometimes the costumes subtly change you as one team transitions to another. I would not call it subtle. I liked the color cells. Yes i did too. But i would definitely not call it subtle now. Now it's a very loud show. Yeah as no back. Young nurse wretched is played by actress. Sarah paulson who is four years. Older than louise fletcher was when she played old nurse. Wretched in one flew over the cuckoo's nest. That's good trivia trivia. i was like what. Oh oh oh hi. And then he was like wait a minute. She's how much older for years crazy right. That will what's crazy about that. She's only two years younger than i am. Are two years older than i am. Yeah i was going to say. She's she's right in the wheelhouse between our ages. So the original nurse ratchet was only forty. She looks a lot older evil ages. You sorry louise fletcher or makes your younger depends. If you're drinking the butternut donny. Osmond not the years. It's the mileage. Did tied donny. osmond. I heard that tally role. Musical themes from the soundtracks of composer. Bernard hermann are used throughout the series including Excerpts from the subjects vertigo north by northwest at cape fear. psycho as. Well why would they put ridley that period cycle as well. What your psycho was made in three words sentence. And lastly when. Sarah paulson heard rosanna. Arquette on the media talking about how after denouncing harvey weinstein. She hadn't worked much in the industry. She contacted her to offer her a role in this bill. The role of anna. The worker who had did not even recognize. When i saw her in the credits says like who the hell is. I looked. oh she played anna. Well who the hell was anna. Come on man. You had heard amanda plummer both from pulp fiction routes. Yep yep so yeah As we said earlier thoughts no first of all a who got far farthest in this. I watched the whole thing. Joel watch the whole thing correct. And yes sir. I five episodes and i didn't get quite as far as blake. Did five five is the majority at least five eight true. I kinda altered. I've gotten what i needed to. I found this pretty rough watch but it was intriguing still but it was still a little bit a little bit difficult for me but there's gonna what what do you mean clarify difficult as in I i really. I really can't emotionally connect with any of these characters. And i think that's a good thing but you wanna root for somebody in this and there are times where nurse ratchet in this. This version of nurse ratchet. There are times where you're like you can't root for but then you kinda do depending upon the situation you know. She does have a bad side. Obviously you as the observer watch you never know when she's being manipulative and when she's being genuine honest yes. That is correct. You don't know if she's playing that person or character or their. She's being genuine. You know like when she helps break the two ladies out you know. Is she being genuine because she's realizing her own situation in her own. You know feelings that she's dealing with you know and you know. Obviously the relationship between her and her brother is disturbing at this point. But i haven't seen the yet you know but you get a lot more. You get a whole episode about that at towards the end okay. Good i mean. I intend to finish it. He's not joking. I literally up at show. Yeah so it's kind of interesting. Because you know i almost kind of want to root for her. Sometimes but then. I can't you know. And there's not really a redeeming character you know other than hawk think but But it is kind of graphic you know a lot of people you know sensitive but i love the colors. They're riding all intentionally bold flat nineteen fifty The the you know the cinematography. I like how the directors and the scene shoes at how they can just build a mood. You know visually. This is a striking serious. It is visually striking series. It is and so there are a few things that ryan murphy does well and that is cinematography and like building a compelling story where by the end of what's going on there's a breadcrumb that makes you want to find out what happens next and again i think that those elements are present. Here the and it is. I think that's probably why. I've i've made it as far as a half in intend to finish. I mean just. The intro itself lends itself to questions of. Why do things happen throughout the intro. And to be honest by the end of the last episode. You've only got a small portion of that intro figured out i'm glad you mentioned the intro because while i do not intend to finish this. I super appreciate that. The opening theme song is my favorite piece of classical music down aqap and you know what other movie that was in. It's been in a bunch of movies room. Stone is the obvious. That's the one i was looking for tombstone. Oh it was yeah. It is the theme song when she's playing the double a side billy zane. Yeah the the foul. Yeah oh yeah okay now and learning. I am learning something. I wanna say. One of the main reasons. Like i said this is the most ryan murphy thing that ryan murphy ever ryan. Murphy is because like every single character the word i would use to describe them as lurid like they're everyone either has a dark secret or twisted perversion or past. That is fucked up somehow. Like even like bucks wears his on his face from his time. In the war every every character feels like an rpg character l. Yeah they are a little caricature at times. And i was just like you know i. I'm not anti ryan murphy. Like i watched nip tuck. I watched like five seasons of glee. I watched a bunch of american horror story. Was i just kinda felt like i've already seen a lot of his storytelling and this is just more of the same. But one flew over the cuckoo's nest flavored. And i kinda think. After the episodes i saw i'd had enough i. I kinda got what. I needed out of this well and upon posting online. That was watching this for the show. I got that from a couple other people that said that you know the made it through a couple of episodes and stopped and they were like. Oh it's pretty pretty good made it through the whole thing. Yeah i i have thoughts but if you have something to say blake go ahead. You just burn something in me when you're when you're You're talking about all the characters in in you're talking about the rpg's in there. I think something. I just realized i come to this. Epiphany they're in a mental hospital and everybody that's in there is broken. Everybody is broken in needs fixed. So it's not just the people that are they're seeking help to get corrected throwing broken people. You're right they all have their perversion or the all heather in dale have. They're insanity and that and and yeah and the fact that they are the forgotten dregs of society is why so. Many charlatans are able to get an even on the staff there all the fake. Oh my gosh yes. Crack in your right reveals behind all the characters. Yeah so oh crap. I realized that in the cast list. We missed a semi major actor like. He's a big character. Actor are corey stall who Place the detective turn hitman. Oh yeah yeah. He was completely left off. And like i. i've been following him since. Obviously he was an ant man. But where i i remember in countering. Him was house of cards. Yep a main antagonist ant man. Oh sorry oh no. I was just i. When you're talking about broken characters. i was thinking. Well he's one of the characters that barely interacts with the asylum itself. Holy crap yeah. He's a pretty big actor. We should mention him that. That's all i have to say. I i have kind of a love. Hate relationship with american horror story like there are some seasons that like asylum. Which i know. A lot of people didn't care for is probably my favorite season that i've seen followed by a freak show but i i have a hard time finishing it by. I don't know if it said it's there's too much going on or that it's the way it's portrayed. There's something about the show that doesn't draw me back into watch another season and so i haven't seen a lot of the reasons so watching this I kind of came in a little bit without preconceived notion it while it is very beautiful to look at. I found myself hating what they did with the character. They turned to like almost. Like a hannibal lecter esque type villain and as i spoke about in the first half. I don't see her as that. And it's almost like ryan murphy's like okay. How can i make this. American horror story ratchet and the they turned her into this just multi. Murdering obviously came from came from the point of view that she was an evil woman and lobbyist through the right back. But i mean they they turned to into such an evil person that yes. It's it it really cognitive dissonance there for ya. Yeah it it. It was detrimental to the source material. Because there wasn't that much in the source material to build this off of and where he was pulling it from. I i have no idea but i found myself enjoying the experience of watching it as a from an artistic standpoint but hating it at the same time from the character standpoint and the big one of the biggest things that i had problems with is Well not the biggest thing but one of the things had problems with is if i remember correctly in the kinky book and then the the film it's a state run hospital. It's not a private institution. If i remember correctly and it which they run yeah can. That's why the doctor had kept having meetings with all kinds of officials. That's what i thought. And during the course of the show and spoiler alert. i don't know where they revealed it but she's not actually a nurse. I'm like what the fuck are you talking about. Yeah okay she might be able to slip through into a private institution. That's not run by the state. But how enough fuck did she get on to a state run mental hospital without any credentials. Why they ended up making it privately owned before the season was over and thirty was. Oh sorry would you going to say because halfway through the season suddenly there's a new character and she's the owner of the place and that's addressed. Just joel's question. Is she worms her way into an interview that she's not qualified for and gets a provisional like manipulates to make sure that there's an opening when they're going to need staff gets a provisional Like trial day and then hides the body for the doctor and all of a sudden she's invaluable. I don't mean on this show. I mean by the time the sixties roll around. And she's okay. I gotcha working with randall. Mcmurtry mcmurphy sorry A how in the hell did she get hired there. Because i mean granted things were a little different than but i don't think they were different enough that they would have hired her on and made her. You know the head nurse at this state run facility. If she had no no proof anywhere that she was actually a a trained nurse that she was actually went through schooling. I can even speak to that now. Granted this is private and not public. But you'd be surprised how often credentials are missing and just no one has done. A regulatory pass like people who are administrators. Like i want to be careful. Because i'm still actively in the inventory in the industry and i will clarify that. I'm not talking about anyone who i'm working with now but i have known people in the past that have not had the credentials to do their job and it's just been missed fake it till you make it and yeah if no if when you've been there for ten twenty years one even bothers to ask who you work with and until the state comes through doesn't audit of like does everyone have the qualifications to do their job. You can get away with it for literal decade. I dunno given today. But but i. But i understand your point when you're comparing this wretched to the floor of the cuckoo's nest the end. It's very interesting. My daughter's twenty five bins ratchet and she loved it and she was. She's american horror story fan in so this weekend we sat down together. I said. now you're gonna see where nurse ratchet comes from. This one flew over accused. Nasa told her about kissy kinky and stuff in. I think she was kind of shocked. Like this completely different person than what i know in for me on the flip side being. The old guy haven't done one flew over the cuckoo's nest. I come into this rash it. You're right. I see how i can't part of the reason that i'm having a difficult time getting through it but still want to is then. I can't put that ratchet. In connected to the ratchet that's in the movie like if they would have made a series and negated the whole nurse ratchet aspect and just like call the angel of mercy or something and it was you know about nurse flanagan. I would have enjoyed the series a lot more. But because you gotta be irish on racist okay. Nurse smith on that back to our andy. I just felt like they were. They were shifting over the the source material. It just. I think they did a disservice to the character of nurse. Ratchet in the original source material like. She's this nurse. Ratchet is much more Sociopathic and much more Just i mean for lack of a better word evil. I mean there's there's just there's there's no debate there's no anything watching. Once over the cuckoo's nest we can have. The debate is nurse. Ratchet watching ratchet. You'll you're like okay. Well the decision is made for you right. Oh she she's Prepared to hide bodies and and chop heads often stage murderers. And and just all this kind of crap you know She's gone well beyond just a woman who you know is a control freak too. She's just a straight up sociopath. Dexter type well on. Oh sorry i just wanted to build on this point because there's one thing you guys are missing and i don't disagree with you but there isn't big blank. Spot between one flew over. The cuckoo's nest and ratchet nurse ratchet also appears in once upon a time. Well as a very clearly evil character so the character as a villain. This is not unprecedented. As the only point. I want to throw out there but the characterization in in once upon a time is i mean i again doing. I've never seen the show but in the some of the The the study of it Or was it you know. People said she was like a big crybaby. And it wasn't it didn't really it didn't have the same tone as one flew over the cuckoo's nest and again i haven't seen it so i don't know you would have more knowledge on that than i. I have seen. Although i was not watching regularly by the time her character showed up but she has gone beyond just this character who has appeared twice and she is an icon of a very particular mental health nurse. Who was a bad person as the archetype and they're riffing on that theme in one of the things about about different big difference between the movie and the show is that it's a lot easier. It's kind of like the the jaws principal. It's like it's a lot easier to let your imagination go in. One flew over the cuckoo's nest as who. She is as a person because she spends ninety percent of her time. Just staring deadpan. And you can't have a eight episode. Tv show with nurse wretched just staring deadpan. At the camera. she's gotta have personality. She's gotta have lions she's got to have this and that so it's like one of those things where like you know in in the original jaws. The shark was much more intimidating. Because you saw a lot less and it built up tension in whatever whereas if it had been the original version like with steven spielberg wanted where the shark had been involved in fifty to sixty seventy percent of the shots. It would have ruined it. And that's kind of what happened with this series as they ruined nurse wretched by having her by peeling back to many of the layers. We'll and there's some aspects of the characterization that makes sense like you talk about you know how she sits there and she just kinda cold and and stares and you kinda get the sense that her job is her life when she leaves work. I imagine she goes home to a house by herself. You know makes her plane. White toews has her t. You know reads a book And goes to bed. you know. There's not a lot to her daily life. She's kind of shut down to emotional attachments. And i think they kind of playback i think she's like a an edm raver at night because they have her get into a relationship and it's obviously are going to be a doomed relationship eventually and the the nature of her relationship isn't accepted at the time so i can see where she would have some of those characterizations that are carried over. But sometimes you just don't do the han solo origin story. I mean maybe you're right. In this case less would be more you know so and i mean even in episode where they give her back story via the puppet show. It still doesn't justify our actions. It gives her more of a reason. But it doesn't justify it no not not at all and as far as just the overall story arc. I didn't like how they tied up some of the things by the end of it. I don't want to spoil it for you know for blake or anybody listening. That wants to watch the whole thing. I didn't like the the the day that they use to just. I didn't i didn't like it at all. You know what i'm talking about. Agile and how they're leading into a second season. Well no i'm talking about like what. What spurred the character coming back in the final episode of spurring on the escape and all that kind of stuff. Yeah i did not care for that at all. I was like come on. That just felt to hannibal lecter ice. Yeah and just to forced into everything as you know. It just felt too too lazy. There was a lot about this. That i didn't like just because i watched all eight episodes doesn't mean i liked it. I just found myself continuing to watch it because you know the game kept going so i kept having breaks and i mean i don't know if i would watch the second season or not i mean it's over fact i'm not going to if if and when it happens i mean. I assume it's done fairly well. I don't know what the ratings are but I mean they clearly of pitched it and it's got a listing having a second season. That's i don't know what stage at but that it's been announced so at least addaction spend picked up for sure attack happening. I just i don't know it was it was it was it was pretty. I mean but i didn't. I didn't like a lot of the characters. I didn't like the way it ended. I didn't like he's almost character. Motivations including for rooting for. Yeah the mayor. I met when we've had this discussion before on some of our episodes. I'm not one of those guys. It i don't need to have somebody to root for. I don't need like a character to like something. I don't care i just like a good story and i felt like you know this had potential to have a good story but it never really it just kinda through a bunch of shit against the wall and just you know didn't really have a great story just had a lot of average stories. I mean you can have deplorable characters. That are your leads. I mean just look at shutting it. Well it's always sunny in philadelphia. They're deplorable characters but you like him a clockwork orange. That's what i was thinking about. you know. then that's a horrible movie. Not a bad movie. But i mean it's it's it's hard to watch and your quote unquote heroes of the film. Your main protagonist is not a good guy. But there's something about it that you know makes it interesting and you want to watch it and you want to see the ark of the character. Yes in in your. You're right you want to give the character near the nature versus nurture one of you. Were talking about the breakdown. You know You know the the made not born when it won't have commented bay born says. So you're you're right. You're an observer i guess in your right. You don't have to be rooting for anybody. And it is kind of hard to watch. You know the you know You know what you're talking about. So you're you're you're you're watching them go through their story. I guess yeah. And i don't know i was the one that was talking so much about made not born whether that's even true at the beginning of the series and that may be true by the end but in the first couple episodes especially with the reveal that ratchet and tallest or brother and sister. I feel that If someone's gotten this far in the episode they're not afraid of that initial conceded. The series is that. There's something with this family. That if they were made they were starting to be forged into monsters almost from birth and that kind of to me begs. The question of the both of these members of this family were like this. Maybe there is something to the idea that they were born this way. Well and they they try ryan murphy or whoever came up with a i assume it's it's his conceptualization of it tries to make that point later on in the in the show that you know she wasn't born that way she was made into that bhai her you know her upbringing her surroundings or both of them right and they both kind of took a slightly different pads. But i still don't feel like the justifications that he provided are ample enough to really to ring true and i'm guessing that the justification for the brother is sexual abuse at the hands of priests and hers is society's pressures against any form of being out as someone who's a lesbian. No okay. I bet that would have been my prediction from what i've seen. Thus far i i would agree but the apparently there's there's a twist that i did not see coming. Yeah they they didn't they didn't go down the the The road you thought they were gonna go down at least but i mean it doesn't necessarily make it An interesting is not the word. I'm looking for but you know compelling got it's not the obvious Kind of not too predictable one right now. I mean it's like he tries to take. I don't wanna say a trope because it happens to people on a regular basis but he tries to take a certain trope for this type of behavior and he Kind of turns it up to eleven for shock factor. I feel but it still doesn't cause i know people that are been in similar situations that have turned out to be amazing human being so you know it can go both ways. But i don't know it just. It felt a little heavy handed. Forced the shock factor. You talked about gets back to my statement that all of these characters are lurid in some way and yeah. I think that's what i was kinda getting at. And it's it's it's murphy you know. It's he likes to kinda pushed the boundaries a little bit with his storytelling whether it's to the absurd or it's to the extreme From the other seasons of american horror story. I've never seen glee or what other show. You mentioned that he was part of a nip tuck. I mean they're scream queens. There's a bunch of others. I i think i've seen a couple of episodes of virtually everything that he's done and a lot of those. He's partnered with tim. Manera on who was a big Driving factor behind the x. Files so yeah. a man. Manera was a producer on this. We didn't mention him in the cast. But there are frequent collaborators and nip. Tuck is pretty is isn't it. I mean yeah. Yeah and i guess that's the thing is i know i've been like kinda down on this but it's more this in particular then His stuff in general. I know that i'm a fan. But i've obviously watched quite a bit of it. Yeah so there's something there. There's something of value i just. This one didn't hit for me because it was it was too much And i don't think it necessarily earned all of the this episode. We're going to discover three more sex scandals in two more people who are struggling with their sexuality like those are stories worth telling but. I'm not sure that this the framing earned those plots. Like i said it's just. It's just a smattering of average stories. Instead of just five or six really good stories and he's capable of telling good stories about people struggling with their sexuality in a society. That does not approve. I've seen that and other stuff that he's done. It is not it though. This was not. Yeah you want to see a more mature. Take on that watch pose Watch even some of the early episodes of glee. There's some good stuff there even though gag leaves not exactly hard hitting but yeah this. This one did not work for me. So are we at that point. It sounds like we're we're. We're gonna ask the obvious question. The thumbs up thumbs down for a few original end the the now i think so. Okay yes and no one else got. I say let's let's do it. Let's start with patrick thumbs. Up thumbs down on then. Now thumbs up for cuckoo's nest. Obviously it's incredible movie. And i mean i i would. I would like to go thumb sideways for ratchet. But i'm not gonna do that. i will commit. I will say thumbs down. Just because i i mean it was fine. It was fun to you know. It was fun but it was nice to watch. It was pretty show that i i enjoyed the costumes. And the looks and the cars and everything in the period piece and all that stuff but the acting was good. But i just i don't know it just. It was never really compelling watched it because i wanted to just get through all eight. It wasn't like. I felt like i needed to get through all eight. I was like okay. I think i'm gonna get through all eight for this show. And so i just did it and i'm not gonna watch the second season i don't have to. I gotta give it a thumbs down about usual. Well i mean obviously one group is necessary thumbs ups one of my top ten favorite films of all time for nurse ratchet if you could take it and make it a different character in the same circumstances based on that i would i give it a hesitant thumbs up But because you know they insisted on it being this character. It's really apprehensive. But i'll leave it at that just like i said it would be good enough on its own. Just that threw a big monkey. Wrench yourself a lot of things but nothing about your thumb. I'm giving it a hesitant thumbs up. But even though i feel like c. Oliver nurse ratchet fair enough. We're going to give our guest host on earth going last because mine is super obvious. A big thumbs up for one flew over the cuckoo's nest and a pretty emphatic. Thumbs down for ratchet work. Yes i'll tell you. What the one thing that i really learned this evening is that i have to work the word lurid more conversations like i like that word Still tree is another good one. Who've sultry i'll i will have to. I mean it's no brainer. One through you know fluid cuckoo's nest definite thumbs up Nurse ratchet i like. I said i'd like to give it like you said earlier. I like to give it a thumbs sideways. Almost going down on some things Really wishy washy. But before i could actually do a an opera down for it i i would like to complete the experience. I i wish. I did before We worked this evening but Life gets in the way sometime. So i made it so far through but i can't say for Alice anglers character. Give her three thumbs up right. So you have your thoughts about whether any of the things we've talked about whether ratchet in the original was a good person or not We did she get a bad rap. Ish she the monster that We're making her out to be throughout her character journey through multiple forms of media. I want to hear what you have to say on the subject Give us a call at seven zero eight and our app. That seventy six nine nine seven two seven and of course if you want to hear more of the show you can always find us on apple podcasts. Blueberry stitcher talk shoe poverty. Fm noon fm dot com as we said at the top of the show. We appear on geek. Life radio i. You can also find us on spotify iheartradio tune in radio son music all sorts of places and you can interact with us on discord on our facebook page. We're all over your internet's google forty going on fourteen if you can't find us then you're not using google properly and let's give blake a chance to plug history about ideas. One of the few podcast. Besides our own that. I've ever listened to thank you very much. Yes history bad ideas. We are not a history podcast in yes it. it's great. Thank you very much guys. I had a lot of fun here tonight. And you know we need to get you know you guys Coming on over to ours as well In the same thing. I tunes twitter facebook You know it's in radio Lipson gig life radio coming back. It's great Same thing denno all right cool and before we get out of here joel. What are we got coming up the next couple of weeks. Well we've got a visit to hazzard county to hang out with the dukes We're talking about sleeping dreams. Their road trip movie. Show coming to america parts one and do and believe it or not. We're doing a punky brewster. Show much against i think. Pat's chagrin. yeah. I don't believe it coming. I'm sick that we cromer. And all i wait now. That was a cartoon so thanks for listening. Thanks for being here. Blake my pleasure. We'll see you in the next coming weeks in the meantime medication time. I want might cigarettes medication time. I wouldn't mind cigarettes cigarettes. Let me. I don't believe i'm crazy. What who jerk offered here. The significance of that is that at the clearfield. Cheese company in kerr wins ville pennsylvania. Arnold narasaki debuted invention a method. Math methods are walkie. Doesn't derail me but method does to wrap six hundred. Individual slices prevented start over. Jesus christ. I didn't slammed a red bull before we start. It's raining right now. like i'm feeling a little tired of hammer back one of these things all right.