Dark Phoenix: What Happened and Whats Next? - Movie Talk
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We're gonna tell you how dark, Phoenix state, and then after that we are really into a second dark Phoenix story because there are a ton of juicy behind the scenes. Details that were eager to get into figure out what exactly happened with that movie. And then speculate what the right moves for the x men film franchise might be going forward. And I am Perry number off. I'm your host, but I get to sit here at this table with two wonderful people who I love doing this show with John Rocca and Haley Faucher. You're smiling faces fill my heart with joy on this Monday. We're not the director of producers of dark Phoenix, so we are smiling for damn sure. And least it's an interesting discussion to have. I am never rooting for a movie to fail. And I did actually teeter positive on dark, Phoenix. So it's a bummer to see this franchise fizzle out quite like it did, but so it goes, and hopefully they're celebrate future for these characters on the big screen moving forward to recap. The full box office lineup right now, we have the secret life of pets, topping the charts with forty six point seven million dollars. Number two into dark Phoenix. With thirty two point eight million three was Aladdin with twenty four point seven million four was Godzilla king of the monsters with fifteen point five million dollars rocket man came in at number five with another thirteen point eight million dollars Roca. You see this lineup here. What stands out to you? Well to me, you gotta look at that rule in their right mind would ever thought the secret life of pets, too would defeat at defeat. Expediter Phoenix even after Pakalitha. She thought they'll get it right. The public will come back. They did not, but the other we'll talk about all of that. I'm sure but Aladdin is the one I wanna give shout out to that thing crossed six hundred five million worldwide. That's incredible. Everyone thought this thing was going to bomb everyone did, and look at it doing its money. So those people with a small minority complaining about these live extra makes hate to break it to you and a small camp because a lot of people coming to see these films and enjoy them. So. Doing very pleasant surprise, and they're doing well, looking at this top five that seems to be the only one that is a good shape, you bring up secret life of pets secret life of pet no doubt, like months and months ago is always gonna top dark Phoenix to me. Even if dark Phoenix did better budget. Forty six point seven million dollars is extremely low, for secret life of pets, too, especially when you consider what the first movie made it was one hundred four point three million dollars. This is less than half of that. And I have a feeling universal illumination thought this was going to be a juggernaut of a franchise for them, and it's a little bit surprising to see that happen, when they both at the Mina cinema score. And then on top of that, this one seems to be getting better reviews than the last one. So even though I missed out on it, so I can't make an opinion on the quality of the movie for myself. I'm I'm a little sad to see this one not get the love it could possibly deserve especially based on Dave's glowing review on collider dot com. But, you know, you think about it, and I believe that first secret life of pets movie still has the. Opening weekend record for original animated movies, and I don't know. I like original filmmaking. So I wanted to see this one do. Well, well, it's not. I mean now it's a sequel of an original thing. Right. I guess so. Original ties based on anything. I feel you about a God Zillah right now. Haley, I know you're a big fan. I mean, it's, it's a bummer right? Their way around it last time I was here, we were kind of talking, like, well, we'll have to see how it continues to perform overseas and h just not doing it, it has one market left in Spain, which is not going to move the needle in the way that, you know, if they're last market was China or something, I'd say, I go, it still has a chance it can do big numbers. It's just not. It's not going to happen. It's sort of bombed out, and I'm I'm sad. I'm glad that we already have a guaranteed one more in the monster verse. Because if that doesn't do if it doesn't move the needle. I don't think we're going to see anymore. Yeah, it was a little disappointed to see that as well. Because I was thinking that maybe it had a chance of holding on a little better than it did in the states, given the fact that, you know, when I was busy, sitting there, comparing it to conch skull island, and the two thousand fourteen Godzilla movie. I'm like, well, this movie doesn't have as much to lose. So that means we're gonna. A smaller percent change. That's actually the highest percent change of the franchise. Now, what is it, sixty seven point five? And that is a huge weakened to drop, especially for a movie that opened as small as that one did do does this put the other one in question. Yes, they said it's still coming but do do you now push back. Remember Potter did that they've pushed back here, installments will they push this one back work stripped, a little bit more out of fear because of the box office returns. It's are any, I believe it's shot a wow. If it's not shot. It's ending filming at the moment because they've been in production for quite a while. Yeah. So they're they're in. They got a roll it out. And maybe I don't know what you guys think if it was a marketing thing or if it's just we don't care about these kinds of monsters, the way that we care about dinosaurs. I it's it's interesting, I think people were burnt from the from the conches go, and it was kind of have even have on. It was uneven and so was the original goes, a lot of people didn't like that Godzilla one too. So I think it just got. I think it caught up finally the audience is caught up like people complain about the transformers movie eventually last one last night was where the fans would like that's enough. Yeah I'm done. I wonder how this one does because none of these have been reviewed extensively in a great way. So I don't want to take away any kind of blame for the quality, these movies the franchise, the general lack of interest in certain topics. But given the fact that we're also talking about dark Phoenix, this episode, I am wondering if we're starting to feel the effects of an overcrowded marketplace, because this summer and partee every single summer is packed. We usually have one big release every single weekend. But this summer feels I mean, almost like out of control like there's really no room to breathe, and we always talk about how important having legs are. But now there's really no opportunity to have legs. So I just wonder if some of these lower numbers that were experiencing right now is just kind of a sign of the times where we're heading in the future that if you are not the biggest of the big, if you don't make the most noise at the box office. Your chances are just diminishing. I mean, it's certainly seems to be heading that way. And then I think it comes into effect. Actor of like making smart choices knowing that is the case like then you keep your budgets down. You keep your marketing down do maybe more of a grassroots marketing campaign than the plaster the posters on every billboard in Los Angeles type thing you know. And because there's, there's room, even with the demands of a monster film, to make a lower budget version of these movies that then these numbers, especially the overseas numbers become great instead of disappointing. If you keep your budgets in the right. Yeah, there's definitely a lot of factors in play, especially when we talk about the variety of movies on today's boxoffice lists, but staring into dark, Phoenix a little here. So dark Phoenix came in well under expectations and not only did it not meet the studio expectations for the week. But it is officially the lowest opening for the x men film franchise, you're looking at the chart right here. I thought it was going to come in just behind number nine, which is the wolverine, and I think I wound up predicting something like a forty five million dollars start for this movie. Whoa. That is a big. Gaff though. It is a major major difference here. So we're going to dig into all the details about why this might happen in story number two today. But just your initial impression of a number like this, when you saw those box office numbers, come in I what was your first reaction. Whoa. I wasn't surprised at all to be honest with you, because it always felt like a lame duck film anyway. And it's like when they cancelled it TV series four episodes in how much how m- how many people are gonna come back and keep watching the series and invest the time we all knew they're not going to bring any of these people back, most people knew that this is the end of the line for it. And the twenty two percent or twenty one percent. Rotten tomatoes was the nail in the coffin to me. So I wasn't surprised by this to be honest with you, I. Yeah, it should have been hired. Sure. But I wasn't like, oh my God. I'm not shocked. But instill the, the impact of that number still like, whoa, y'all messed up. I don't like. That's what all these reports are like, what could they have done different wrong? Everybody's sort of investigating that. But there's also just as you mentioned, this feeling that like there was no energy around you, barely even like felt that there was an X men movie coming out at all. Yeah. I mean, we have a lot of details that we're going to dig into right now, including something that Jesus. Guest Allom is asking for in the live chat right now. How much do those reshoot costs for dark Phoenix? So we're not gonna get into those specifics. But we do have a ballpark movie what the studio spent on dark Phoenix, and we're gonna talk about that in story number two. But right now I've got something you got to keep your eye out for on the collider video YouTube channel check it out because rally here and let me tell you about rule of to you looking for a Star Wars fixable Rula to is that show. It drops non collider videos, main YouTube channel as well as on podcast ones jed eye counsel feet. So go over there subscribed shirt with your friends, it's hosted by myself and Mark Fernandez. We talk everything in the Star Wars universe with a lot of deep dives and a lot of conversations that go all in, you know what to do. Subscribe join us there and. Is. It's method firms fourth July sale with a preview of our free free, free events. Get free bed accessories like two free memory foam pillows and two free mattress protector. When you take your New Bedford five ninety nine that's about you of over one hundred fifty dollars, absolutely free on top of that. You can save up to four hundred dollars on the best brands store wine, who were you in beat the crowds. Jor budget stretches further at mattress firm. Offer valid with a qualifying purchase. Restrictions apply out at participating locations only offer Joe's visit mess. Firm dot com slash sale. Hey guys, Perry here again, to remind you that this episode of movie talk is brought to you by DC universe. It's the first all DC platform for DC fans Jordan DC universe dot com and get sucked into new original series like the highly touted titans or catch up on favorites, like crypt on season one, you can also jump into new episodes of swamping dropping weekly and follow Abby arcane. She investigates what seems to be a deadly swamp born virus in a small town in Louisiana and soon discovers that the swamp holds mystical and terrifying secrets. You can also get your comic book fix with thous-. Ends of new comic titles just added to an already impressive comic library. This includes more recent titles and complete storylines, like superman secret origin, that, man, twenty eleven and Harley Quinn's 2013 also available on the platform are tons of the classic DC movies. We love like Batman in the original superman movie. And then if animated films are more your speed sign up now because reign of the superman and Justice league verse. The fatal five are now available DC universe is available on all your favorite devices. So if you're thinking about it before jump in join and get a years worth of DC content at DC universe dot com. It's mattress firm's fourth July sale with a preview of our free free, free events. Get free bed accessories like two free memory foam pillows and two free mattress protector. When you take your New Bedford just five ninety nine that's about you of over one hundred fifty dollars, absolutely free on top of that. You can save up to four hundred dollars on the best brand store wine, who we in and beat the crowds nor budget stretches further at mattress firm. Offer valid a qualifying purchase. Restrictions apply out at participating locations only offer does. Visit mess firm dot com slash sale. In addition to rule it in addition to Rula, too. We also have a ton of e three coverage coming your way all week, you're going to get it on the collider games channel the collider, video channel and also on collider dot com. So you're gonna want to check all of that out. And then on top of that, follow Instagram because Doreen is going to be posting some stuff from e three all week. It's a lot of fun. You got to check all that out, especially Dorian drinks. Hope you're enjoying that. All right. So we're number two here. Let's hit dark Phoenix from t- HR. They posted a big post mortem today, detailing a whole bunch of insider information they got based on the production. So according to this article of FOX insider told the outlet, there was a misguided feeling that apocalypse was an anomaly that we just got it wrong. And at first the movie release date was November twenty eight teen for dark, Phoenix after that, we know it was pushed to February twenty nineteen then with marketing over underway, FOX pushed the release date again to June third twenty nineteen in actually, it's June. Seventh insiders, tell t HR that the move was actually to play Kate, James Cameron, and his concerns for alita battling Joel. The problem is, according to the jar piece that dark Phoenix was never designed to be a summer movie. So Roka what is your take on this little first bit of information that we're covering right now? I'm, I'm wondering how they could be so. Misguide. To not know that there were problems with this X men franchise from the beginning, there have been issues. I mean last day did not do that. Well, then you hire the guy who co wrote last stand to be in charge of the Phoenix story, again, and get make them direct the film, then you reshoot over and over again. Like all of that, just to me signaled, a demise afford this film. And then you start pushing it to placate James Cameron, which to me makes no sense, for film like alita ballet with an absolutely no buzz and no one was going to see this thing in large numbers. So if they either playing the long game to placate him because of avatar, and then they sacrificed dark Phoenix, which should have been there, a great ending installment of the franchise in exchange, and that I think there's just massive mistakes all around them lying about. Well, I'm sorry. My belief that they lied about this idea that always all captain, while we didn't want to make it close to captain mobile. It's all smoke and mirrors. They knew that in have a good product and they couldn't get it, right. And they just dropped it. And this is the result. Well deadline actually also ran a report on some of the behind the scenes stuff. On dark Phoenix at according to their report, the claims that the ending was too, similar to captain marvel just wasn't true. No, one of the FOX ledge dark, Phoenix production side, had any Intel of what kept a marvel would be like before it was released. Yeah. That, that would have been the case, but also in terms of the release dates being pushed and pushed, and pushed and that final last push to, let's say, maybe placate James Cameron at that point. What's the big deal that seemed to this movie seemed to have been such a low priority for them at that point? And also the merger was Dundee peak deal, especially if someone like James Cameron, who is such a formidable strong force in this industry, I could understand why they would want to appease him and move this thing off its date. But the concern that they had about this, never having been a summer release is fascinating to me, and it's all it almost goes back to what I was saying at the end of the box office segment. I feel like that's the game. Some of these students are going to have to play with certain franchises is you're going to have to start designing things for other times of year because yes. The whole year round calendar is overloaded, but some are, in particular is almost like dooming, your movie because there is just so so much out there. It's also a matter of kind of what we were talking about this complete lack of buzz. I do feel that by continually pushing it, redefining the film. There was no clear marketing for it, and I'm really surprised. I thought Disney once they had it where it's going to lean all in on the last one. This is your last fire sale. Get your last excellent. We pull it off the market for a while. But they didn't lean into that. So there was no hook to hang onto. And when you keep pushing your film, like that, and I think it signals to audiences just as much to everyone else, what you said that it's not a priority sonnet priority for the studio. Why should it be a priority for us? Spy blowing to me, this is the premier franchise and the fact you treated this way for the chance that these avatar films might be good. We haven't seen Cameron of theaters in years. All of a sudden, you wanna sacrifice this thing it's insulting to the X, men brand that a lot of people comic lovers. Me love and adore and revere, and go see these movies for that to be true. Like this is just a horrible son all around. So now that's why we've been more doubly excited that it's going to Disney and the MC you and we'll see what they do with it down the road and having a hard time pointing such a strong finger at anyone over at FOX, just because, you know, maybe it would have been an issue for that original release date way back when I like I forget when they were in production versus when the rumors of the merger I started to emerge. But if it hit a point where folks over at FOX, which just like, well, we're gonna lose our jobs anyway, or we have no focus and we have no leadership because that deadline report also talked about just confusing it in the marketing department, who's to blame them for kind of dropping the ball a little, especially when there's no hope or direction for this iterative X men in the future. Yeah, I it's how do you sell that product? I mean at a certain point also when something has been on the shelf for so long. That's that says something to audience, right then? How does the marketing team convinced them that all the con? Notations are not accurate when the material itself is kind of met it's very hard. So I don't just point the finger at marketing, but it's a it's a factor. I don't think that anyone really knew what to make of this film, including it seems the people who made it, which is, how do you sell that shoots? Right. Why do you waste the money on the re-shoots and a vain attempt to try to save this film? It doesn't make any sense at all. If you knew it was gonna crash. Anyway. Just drop it as it is and move on. That's the thing that I don't understand. Overall, very curious to see what they do with. Oh, speaking of the money though deadline is predicting that this one is going to. They say it will burn out with an estimated one hundred million to one hundred twenty million dollar loss after ancillaries off the combined. Production peon, a estimated cost of three hundred and fifty three hundred and fifty million dollars, plus, which includes the re-shoots. So this is a pretty significant loss rate here and. I wonder if it will change plans for new mutants again, I still stand by what I said, last time we cover new mutants, which is if Disney is going to go ahead and let those reshoot tap and you don't bother doing that unless you have some faith you're going to get a return on it. Whether it is going as far to incorporate it into the MC, you or even just try to just turn out a single standalone good movie, but we also have a question in the live chat from Stephen geo who wrote now the X men have to share the production budget and schedule with the MC. You will they be able to give them the breathing room they deserve. So with that with that kind of question, it's difficult because I don't know the behind the scenes details about how marvel studios breaks down their budget. But I mean, yes, they will have to share it to a degree, and that's part of the problem again with the overcrowding at the at the theaters now is that now it's also like Disney overcrowding, and you got to think about all the different departments, they have, and even though yeah maybe they're staffing up a little more so than they were before. But there's only so much time and money and energy. To go around. So it could be a little bit of a challenge to spread all these movies out over so many years. I don't think there's a rush, I think people want to let it die for a little while. The Spiderman thing was an anomaly, Nick and the MC you got lucky with that by getting the right Spiderman at Tom Holland do it. But people were dumb with Spiderman, and they were able to bring them back, slowly. But surely, and now he's, he's backing being a permanent place in, in the but like this is a weird situation with X men. I think you'd let it die for a little while build up, how you want to cast it whatever find your way to the X men organically than what you already creating. And then release you gotta wash the taste out something fantastic. Four there's no rush to Melissa movie like that this quickly shape this pitch for you a little because I think what Stephen might be getting or how I kind of read his question is over the past couple of years. We've gotten those many MC you movies, and we've gotten these many X men movies now that they're all together. Is it possible to still? Maintain the same numbers, you know. And I don't think that'll be the intention either. I think that I agree with what you said, which is that they're going to give it a big rest, because it for all the reasons you said, and it just, they don't need it right now, from the number one reason is they're very much thriving very successful. And I think it was the t h r report that, that had a quote from someone saying, they're, they're going to take their time with it. And when they do introduce, it, that's ten more years of MCI movies that are just by having the x men. You've got a decade more filmmaking to do, so I think that they will integrate it into the plans for the MC. You not, not say, we, we have our MCI movies. And then we are X men movie. I'm definitely with you guys on that one other point that I did want to bring up which I found very interesting in that deadline article was there was a point where they said, dark Phoenix was originally planned to be two movies and that seems to me like it could have been the better path to. Take because one of my biggest issues with this particular story is that you needed a stronger foundation with the newer characters in order to justify this big moment for Jean grey where her relationships with these people are called into question. So maybe stretching it out over the course of two movies was the better way to go. And they were saying that Kimber basically played ball with the studio in those requests. And I wonder if it would have been an opportunity to creatively fight for the better pass who have taken with the story. I mean, maybe but judging by the all this happened in anything that would have maybe been even worse, and we're left with no ending. That's a fair point. I mean, maybe we wouldn't have gotten a movie at all. I needed the space to tell the story I think definitely even just right out of the gate. There's like one seed, and then it's like, boom you're off into this adventure that you've been wanting to see forever. But you don't there's no time to get hyped about the idea of the X men in space and all this, cool stuff that this movie was supposed to present because it's move move move move move when, in the these this new batch of X, men was never the, the leader of these films, right? It was always a pot it was apocalypse. It was wolverine in days of future passed. It was executor with a fast and magneto with fast bender McEvoy, it was never this crew of actors. And so they that doesn't drag you into the movie. It doesn't drag you into seeing this thing. And if they start center of two movies that would have made sense to let us connect with these people, a little bit more playing these characters then you can understand something like dark, Phoenix, happening, and feeling as feeling it as a tragedy and they didn't have enough time to Bill. Just like they did the first iteration of X men. They fumbled his dark Phoenix story twice. What is the damn rush? Let them breathe let them have adventures, and moved to marvel just showed you the blueprint ten years to get to the Thanos story. It, it can take time. Let us enjoy it. And they never do speaking about that to wrap up the segment. I of one prediction question for you guys. How long do you think it will be until we see the dark V-neck story that makes fun? It's inevitable. I feel like it's going to feel like it should why waste this rich story just because it wasn't done properly, especially if you earn it your swim. Many characters that are taxed the door Phoenix story that you need to lay the groundwork phone, very fair point coming coming from someone who doesn't read comics his just told about some of the most popular storylines and I was popular storyline. That excites me, but I guess, in my mind at this point, it is a shame that we never got a really strong version of this talents going thoroughly agree with you. And we'll see what happens as the issue, they may start laying the seeds for it down the road. But I think you say Dr phoenixville notch to start to have a little face to achieve now and nobody wants to see a for at least twenty years, at least at least and I don't think that's the direction they won't go based on what they did with Spiderman, which is we will not tell that origin story again. No, it we're done. We're not doing it. And I think that's the, the smart move in and obviously paid off the Spiderman. It's a shame that we didn't. Get dark Phoenix. But, like there's a lot of X men stories out there that are really cool. And I think we can branch out from this. That makes like you said, everyone just go, oh, there's so much of 'em. You've got the scrolls now we can definitely play with the squirrels are so much to play with the X men universe. The you can leave the dark Phoenix storyline for awhile. All right. I look forward to seeing what they do. And I'm still waiting not so patiently for new mutants. All right. Take one quick live chat, question of gopher one from ghost world. Who's writing for dune? I just finished reading the book, very much like game of thrones with this be better as a net flicks miniseries instead of a film. There's a lot to explain funny. You should ask that question because, you know what just broke right before we sat at this desk. Here's the headline that I've got here from the Hollywood reporter dune the sisterhood TV series of go at one or media. So an announcement for dune TV series before we get the new dune movie. Is it a good idea? Is that too much too fast, well, a few years ago, someone came out and said, I'm going to have one powering? Before for God's sakes, get it writing once, and then start talking about a TV series, Jim McLean. I on mailbag a couple of weeks ago. We talked about this and him, who is a man of knowledge and was like, I have a real fear of how people are going to consume dude, because it's such a massively dense book to now, start turning it into a miniseries to accompany. What you've got in the film here. It's very, very dangerous. I think it's the highest of high wire acts to pull off because it is a dance dense book eight did not go well for the dark tower. So recent example of all, you should probably do one thing really well before building an empire around it. I have more faith in dune, because it is Denise villanovan and I can see why they wanna do that. Do I wanna see the series? Sure. Do I believe it will happen, especially based on the numbers that blade runner got TB y'all? I can't wait until the first thing piece that comes across my desk with the headline is doomed. They're really clever without one. It's not going to be me. All right, guys. That is a wrap on our show today. A huge, thank you as always brightening, our days on Monday Adam in the booth. Thank you so much for your hard work same to you, as well Dory. And we're glad to have you back in town guys. Do not forget to liken share this episode of collider movie talk, also tell everybody, you know, we exist in podcast form as well. Check it out. Spread the love and tune in tomorrow. Three pm t live for brand new episode. It's July sale with a preview of our free free, free events. Get free bed accessories like two free memory foam pillows and two free mattress protector. When you take on your New Bedford, just five ninety nine that's about you of over one hundred fifty dollars, absolutely free on top of that. You can save up to four hundred dollars on the best brands chore wine, who were you in beat the crowds. Your budget stretches further at mattress firm. Offer valid with a qualifying purchase. Restrictions apply. Not participating locations only offer does visit mess firm dot com slash sale. Chopper crash, I'm Ed Donahue with an AP news. Minute in New York. The pilot was killed when a helicopter crash landed on the roof of midtown Manhattan. Skyscraper. It happened at the AXA equitable building. Governor Andrew Cuomo spoke to reporters after the crash and said the impact shook the building and caused a fire, but it was under control, and there were no other reports of injuries a tariff on Mexico was supposed to take effect today. President Trump says there's a deal to work out a worked out to stop it. The president says this deal has more to it and on. NBC CNB. See he wouldn't go into details. Very powerful tool. In addition to the very powerful tools, we got we had none of these tools, virtually none, or they were just being talked about. They've been talked about for twenty years with Mexico on Twitter. The president tease there'd be more to announce soon on Capitol Hill. John dean star witness during Watergate who helped bring down the Nixon presidency, testified special counsel, Robert Muller has provided congress with a roadmap for investigating President Trump. I'm Ed Donahue.