Day 1,033: Nine witnesses to testify in week two of Trump impeachment
Tonight we're now just hours away from the latest round of marathon impeachment hearings just as tonight new transcripts are out from closed-door witness interviews more administration figures describing kind of shadow foreign policy while the president labels them never trumpers tonight. What's on the line going into tomorrow? And what to watch for him. Why Congress is looking back on the president's Britain answers to muller knowing what they know now also this evening? The president makes an unscheduled. Yeah Joe trip to the hospital on a Saturday raising a number of questions all of it as the eleventh hour gets underway on Monday night. Good evening once again from our NBC. News headquarters here in New York Day. One thousand thirty three of the trump administration as a new week because underway another dangerous week for this presidency. Courtesy of the House. Democrats running the impeachment inquiry the next round of live televised hearings set to start just hours from now. There are nine more witnesses scheduled to appear just this coming week late tonight. Two more witness transcripts were released east more on that in a moment tomorrow the hearings resume with two officials who were listening in on the July. Twenty five call with the new president of Ukraine hands hence advisor Jennifer Williams and national security staffer lieutenant. Colonel Alexander Vincent Washington Post reporting. Vincent is expected to testify about his alarm over trump's request to investigate his political opponents. We got a preview of Williams testimony over the weekend when transcript of her November seventh deposition was released she told investigators she took notes of the call and that quote the mention of those specific investigation seemed seemed unusual. She also said trump's requests seemed to be about his personal political agenda as opposed to a broader foreign policy objective of the United States. She then added. When I went back to check my notes I had written that president trump had raised Barista she had also told investigators she did not know why I bere- sma the Ukrainian gas company that put Joe Biden's son on the board was not in the call summary that we all got to see the one released to the public tomorrow afternoon? We'll see lawmakers questioned former special envoy to Ukraine Kurt Volcker and former senior National Security Council. Official Tim Morrison Morrison The New York Times reporting tonight that Volcker will tell lawmakers. He was out of the loop at key points in trump's effort to pressure Ukraine Peter Baker among the authors. There's that piece he's standing by to join us. In a moment Tim Morrison worked for former National Security Adviser John Bolton and over the weekend his deposition was released he. He testified that Bolton had met privately with trump and August to try to persuade the boss to release nearly four hundred million dollars in aid to Ukraine and that Unquote Ambassador Bolton simply said he wasn't ready to do it Morrison also told investigators about trump donor turned ambassador to the EU Gordon Son Lund's involvement in the administration's effort to pressure. Your Ukraine quote ambassador son believed at least related to me that the president. It was giving him instruction Gordon Sunlen scheduled to testify Wednesday morning. It's likely to be an eventful day. Remember he has already amended his. I closed door deposition revealing that. He told a top Ukrainian official. The country probably would have to give in to trump's demands and announced investigations investigations into his political rivals. The Biden's if they wanted to unlock the military aid the Wall Street Journal says it has seen emails. Els Sunland sent to several White House officials keeping them in the loop up to date on efforts to get Ukraine to launch those investigations in the weeks weeks leading up to that now critical July twenty five. Call the number two house. Republican one of trump's more vocal defenders was asked over the weekend about about what Sunland might say on Wednesday congressman. scalise if Gordon Assad who met with the president a half dozen times this Summer testifies on Wednesday. The president said to me. We're not releasing the aid until they announced they're going to investigate the Biden's and Barack Resona doesn't that blow a hole in the president's defense. Well the president's defense is that those things didn't happen. Are you going to say that. He's he's wrong that he's lying. Look I know you've been asking and others vast hypothetical questions. Let's talk in reality. Are you willing to to abide by. Whatever Gordon's says happened by Gordon? I abide by what the president did and what presidents Alinsky actually receive SEIB. As we mentioned there are new transcripts tonight from two upcoming witnesses. One is from Foreign Service officer David Holmes. He's the one who gave gave closed door testimony. Friday he is to testify publicly. This coming Thursday. He's the person who said he overheard. Sunland tell trump over a cell phone call. Ukraine would move forward with the investigation that trump had asked for in that July twenty fifth call in his closed door deposition homes told lawmakers lawmakers he clearly recalls the conversation because it was quote an extremely distinctive experience in my foreign service career. I've never ever seen anything like this. Someone calling the president from a mobile phone at a restaurant and then having a conversation of this level of candor colorful language. There's just so much about the call. That was so remarkable that I remember it vividly. He went on to say it was assumed that American electronic communications vacations were being monitored in Ukraine. All of that brings us to our leadoff discussion on a Monday night. The aforementioned Peter Baker Chief White House correspondent on it for the New York Times Co author notably of the new book impeachment and American history. Mika Oh Yang Attorney and former staffer for both the house Intel and armed armed services committees and Katie Benner Justice Department reporter for the New York Times. Good evening and welcome to you all counselor. I'd like to begin with you here in New York. What is this week likely to yield? How further down the road on the story? Are we likely to be sitting here Friday night. So what we saw saw last week was the action happening in Ukraine are officials in Ukraine understood. Where the president's instructions and why it was so important that they're investigating corruption? This week the action moves to Washington Washington inside the White House. And we're going to hear from people who are hearing directly from the President what he wanted in terms of this exchange with Ukrainians four foreign investigation exchange of White House at foreign investigation of his rival and the Republicans are going to have a very hard time arguing that these are people who are not indirect communication with the president so there fall bax are falling away with each increasing witness. That's true every time they have come forward with a defense of the president. What they we have found is that defenses later undercut by the facts of the president? Didn't say this directly that the president didn't know every time we get a subsequent witnesses said actually I I heard the president say this. I heard the president. Say on a call to Gordon Sunland. I heard other officials tell me that this is exactly what the president told them to do. Peter Considering Volcker was special show on void Ukraine. If he indeed tries to argue he was out of the loop of phrase we all I learned in the lexicon from the the era of Bush forty one. How is that likely to go over? Well he's got some explaining to do in his testimony because he was the first one called in for closed door deposition -sition and some of the things he said in that position would later in conflict with testimony. Given by some of the other witnesses for instance he gives a blander description of the July tenth meeting at the White House that we've later learned included John Bone abruptly ending Ed and Fiona Hill Confronting Gordon Sunland and later golden saying so. You know I'm not gonNA be part of any drug deal. He has to explain that Y. He didn't know that Gordon Zahn told the Ukrainians that in fact the security the aid release was tied to whether they didn't announce investigations or not. Now what he's GonNa say in his testimony were told is that he hadn't been told about Gordon Sahlins this conversation with Ukrainians and he hadn't been told that the president's Alinsky of Ukraine was being pressured to go on CNN to make a statement and that that July tenth beating he simply. You didn't hear the things that other people have reported not challenging their accounts but says it's possible he was talking with somebody else at the time and didn't happen to hear the particular words that were exchange so that's going to be interesting because he's one of the witnesses. The Republicans wanted to call because they thought that he offered them some testimony that was useful to them he said in his first. Go round in the closed-door door deposition that he didn't know of any quid pro quo attached to the security aide. Now of course we have testimony to the contrary from other witnesses. Katie Benner the president. It has no shortage of loyal cabinet. Officers the guy you cover the attorney general among the most loyal to this president. Talk to us about out. The case attorney. General Bar made this weekend about the president's conduct. Sure without ever saying the word impeachment Attorney General Bar Basically said that the president has extraordinary power so much power that it can't be limited it can't be really hemmed in by Congress. He sees the impeachment procedure as is an attempt to undo a duly elected president and he sees what he calls the resistance and of course what. Democrats claim Solomon's resistant. He sees that as a way of undermining owning democracy going against the constitution and basically trying to say that elections have consequences now. What's interesting about this is that it almost lays out a roadmap for the argument game at the Senate may variable make so should the president be impeached? Should this go to trial in the Senate as macos mentioned a lot of the arguments that have been made by Republican. So far have been batted down as witness after witness comes forward so they may very well echo this argument. which is the president? Had the power to do this and it was not wrong. And of course that bumps up against the classic argument that the President or any one of us is above the laws of this land right and so what bar was saying that you know as president while President he he has executive power that executive power is to make decisions in his lane. His Lane just happens to be extremely broad covers. The Defense Department covers. The Justice permanent covers the State Department. And if this is what he wants to do. This is okay boy. Mika it's hard to know where to go from here Jennifer Williams writes the word Barista down in her contemporaneous notes of listening to the President of the United States on the phone. Barista the word the proper noun the proper now yes. That's right appears nowhere. In the summary We all receive which the president erroneously keeps calling the transcript. Read the transcript we would love to read a transcript of the call What does that omission tell you or is it insignificant? It's actually very significant. And one of the reasons it significant is because as Volcker testified Barista and Biden were linked inextricably in the mind of the president's attorney Rudy Rudy Giuliani. The he saw those things as a way a way of investigating the Biden's in a way that would politically benefit the president. Now there's some question about whether or not the president links those two things because burris itself was a company that had some questions about it. Don't corruption but it doesn't occur in the context of that it occurs in the context of Biden Heiden and so if burris must coming up if that's conveyed to Dolinsky is this is the investigation that you need to start that. It's very clear that the president is trying to get Dolinsky to basically engage in like the planting of evidence against a rival of his now. One of the challenges on that is there are limits on the present behavior in the constitution. It's not unfettered power. As far as his defense of the president the constitution says the president can be removed for treason. Bribery and other high crimes and misdemeanors misdemeanors. And what you see here in this. The President Sanctums Alinsky. I'll give you the aid if you start this investigation. Is the president trying to bribes Alinsky into a corrupt act the investigation of his rival by giving him something that is an official act from trump. That trump is trying lying to withhold and indeed when the speaker came out and use the B word bribery. That's the point they're trying to hammer at. That's exactly right and part of the reason why they're so focused on this question. Is it an explicit thing that the framers included in the constitution to say. The president can't engage in bribery which they understood as using the powers of the office for your own personal personal benefit and Katie Benner. Is there any peril to the president continuing to take shots at witnesses in real time which he did during the Muller investigation. It's now and every time he does that he puts himself on more peril. So for example we saw with witness former ambassador to Ukraine. He tweeted about her and he said things that she felt were threatening and immediately Adam Schiff said you know what we take witness intimidation very seriously almost in with the president was reading yet. Another impeachment Clause for him breading another article impeachment for himself right then and there witness tampering. He almost can't help himself so the heat is turned up as witnesses. Come out this week. It will be interesting to see whether or not he continues ten years to overstep his boundaries in a way that that the house could Hughes against him. Peter Breaker we have to talk about the president's health because it's an issue because he did something over the weekend highly unusual. We've all become accustomed of learning. You know today is the president's annual physical at Walter Reed. Well Saturday without any prior notice. A motorcade was assembled and the president was hustled. Out to Walter Reed it led. Do you all kinds of reporting the president had to deny was anything on toward said it was routine indeed tonight Dr Shawn Conley. Who is a a commander in the US Navy? The president's physician has tried to settle the matter. They've put out this memo. He wrote to the Press Secretary for Republic distribution saying it was a planned interim checkup part of primary. Preventative Care The president has not had any chest pain nor was he evaluated valuated or treated for any urgent or acute issues specifically he did not undergo any specialized cardiac or neurologic evaluations nations. That wording is important. Those denials there are denials of the rumors that we chase down and reported on and kept hearing all day long. So what are we to make of this at the end of the day. Yeah it's very interesting. You don't see a statement like this at ten o'clock at night from the White House vision. There's you don't see a trip to the hospital like we saw on Saturday very often to be honest with you. He did go through a regular Annual physical just in February. It's only nine months later. You don't normally do this without announcing it in advance as he had in the past now they said look. This is just an opportunity to get in some some partial test. In other words partial well Toward this annual physical. They will continue it after the New Year. The doctor said but suspicions and remember. There's a long history of lots of white houses and lots of presidents. Not telling that's the full truth about health conditions of their presidents and this is not exactly a White House known for its forthcoming nature to begin with. So there's obviously a lot of suspicion they're trying to douse suspicion with the statement. The doctor not just a statement by Stephanie. Grisham the White House Press Secretary but by navy commander who you presume is more committed to making sure that his reports are accurate. Precise and honest. And they're hoping I think to kind of put an end to the speculation but it does still leave a lot of questions. Why do they do it on Saturday? Why didn't they tell us in advance? What else is going on here? One good thing for the president. According to the exam results that the doctor release was his. Cholesterol is down. He's been taking medication for that is back into a more healthier range. That's a good thing. Obviously for his help but they didn't release any other exam results. They didn't release away. They didn't release any other lists of exams. He might or might not have taken any future exams they plan to give him with. We're much obliged to our big three tonight. Never never can tell which topics are going to come up at this hour Peter Baker to Meco Yang to Katie Benner. Our thanks for helping us out and coming on the night coming up. The new congressional investigation goes back in time to so what the president told Muller in his written answers and whether or not he was being truthful. We'll ask a former. US Attorney about that and later we have an exclusive on some new data showing the ways that Russia is already honing. Its Message and picking favorites in the twenty twenty election as the eleventh hour is just getting started kicking off this new week. Hey eleventh-hour our listeners. Steve Kornacki here. I WanNa tell you about a new. NBC News podcast. I'm hosting called article two inside impeachment. It's exclusively dedicated to bringing you the latest developments on the impeachment inquiry in the president. Donald Trump. Every Monday Wednesday and Friday. I'M GONNA BE TALKING TO NBC News reporters who are closest to the story. Sorry to break down. What's new? What matters and what it means for the twenty twenty election and our country since you love the eleventh hour? I thought you'd enjoy it. Search now for article article two inside impeachment. Wherever you're listening to this podcast and subscribe for free? Thanks for listening. We are reduced to saying things like make of this what you will but today. The president said he would strongly consider testifying in the impeachment. Inquiry discounts has charlie savage of the New York Times reports about the last time trump's submitted written answers at least to an investigation against him quote house. Democrats are exploring whether the president trump lied in his written answers to Robert Muller's investigation. A lawyer for the House told a federal appeals court on Monday raising the prospect of an additional basis for for an article of impeachment the acknowledgement refocused attention on a quiet debate among Democrats about whether any impeachment of Mr Trump should go beyond the Ukraine affair and also accuse accuse them of obstructing the Russia investigation back with us. Tonight is Chuck Rosenberg former. US Attorney former senior official at the FBI also happens to host just are popular. podcast called for good reason the oath. Alright Chuck what. Specific portion of the written testimony already submitted did is raising flags now after the fact subset question. Is this a makeable case. Yeah so the portion we should focus John. His President Trump's denials that he knew about the connections with wikileaks that he was soliciting information about it really that he had any knowledge that wikileaks had played a role in You know sort of exposing stolen emails to the public. And what should we you know. Is it a makeable. Oh case Gosh prior new. That's much more difficult question. Perjury is a hard charge to bring normally what you need to make a successful perjury case is a rather precise question and a rather emphatic. Answer and I've watched a lot a lot of congressional hearings but I haven't seen a lot of precise questions and so is it makeable. Yes is it easy. No and also the president couch so many of his answers in the following. Way In the best of my recollection. Or I don't really recall but and when you have those types of answers it becomes even more difficult to make a perjury case. Let's take the president and his word. He says he strongly considering Testifying I isn't if if he insists on written answers again. Why isn't that a waste of everyone's time all over again? It's a waste of everyone's time all over again as a prosecutor. I never took written answers I would never want a written answer are they are virtually useless. Sometimes you'll see this in civil litigation but not in criminal now. I know an impeachment inquiry isn't quite a criminal case ace. But it's a it's an analog to one and here's the problem with Brian those questions despite what Mr Trump said we're not prepared by him they were prepared by his lawyers lawyers and carefully so and so so many again so many of the questions were You know rather precise from the Muller team someone of the answers were incredibly. I believe they if I were Adam Schiff if I were the Democrats I don't want that it's a waste of my time. It doesn't get me anywhere. Doesn't get me anywhere. And it doesn't permit me me as an investigator to gauge someone's tone or demeanor or to follow up with more pointed questions if I don't think they're telling me the truth. I think it's a waste of time chuck late last week. We saw a rare bit of emotion from you on the subject of our secretary of state is surmised on the Air Friday night that it was exactly because as you had taken an oath more than once to serve your country and here's a guy or secretary of state Famously graduated number. One in his West Point Class S. Nineteen eighty-six and has been in his career and army officer. Why the question is why? Hasn't he been supporting offering air. Eric Cover for his people. His employees among them veteran foreign service officers. The subject came up at the State Department today. We'll show oh you pompilio and talk about it on the other side. I always defense date more poison. Greatest diplomatic corps in the history of the world. He's talking about Ukraine policy. So I'm curious if you you think ambassador Taylor has been an effective policy. And if he's going to remain his job or if the president has lost confidence in him deportment. Fantastic job. I we delivered in a way that the Obama administration has not delivered on Ukraine's thanks. Everybody have a fantastic so counselor. You heard him there. He was given a direct chance to offer support a direct chance to talk about his employees by name. He's an accomplished. I man Brian. And he's an intelligent man but he's a coward. I said that last week and derived absolutely no pleasure from saying it but I stand by every word that I uttered look leadership means taking care of your people and when they're being attacked by the president of the United States that imperative does not change. He has failed as people. He has failed as a leader. And it's deeply disappointing. And so he had a chance just now you showed it on camera to emphatically state. That Eddie stood by ambassador. Taylor an ambassador Yovani rich and the men and women of the State Department and he gave us nothing but platitudes. When asked a specific question he walked away? Hey there is his answer Brian. I know you well enough to know. There's no joy in your answer. Chuck Rosenberg thank you as always for coming on the broadcast here with US tonight. Yes sir sure coming up for us. Donald trump was their candidate of choice in two thousand sixteen Putin said so publicly but which candidates are Russian state media rooting for four rooting. Against this time around. This could be telling. We have new and exclusive analysis of this very question right when we come back. Did you want president trump to win the election. Did you direct any of your officials to help him do that because he talked about bring. US A special relationship back to normal. So we know who Russia favored in two thousand sixteen and now a new analysis of Russian back news coverage is shedding light. On on which candidates the Kremlin may be focused on heading into twenty twenty. You may come across their stories when changing the Channel or surfing the Internet. But it's important to remember when you see those rt or sputnik news logos. You are getting information from Russian state-sponsored news Outlets the foreign policy research institute has analyzed over seventeen hundred news articles this year from RT and Sputnik News. It found the following. Joe Biden was mentioned more than three hundred times and led the way in terms of negative coverage with a fifty three percent rating. On on the flip side the analysis found that Hawaii Democratic Congresswoman Tulsi Gabbard was the overwhelming favorite with sixty one in mansions and forty six percent favorable coverage. Our next guest Glyn Watts worked on the analysis and he writes this quote for Russia thus far Biden in two twenty twenty. What Hillary Clinton was to twenty sixteen here for his exclusive report? The aforementioned Clint Watts former FBI special agent a distinguished research fellow at the Foreign Policy Research Institute author of Messing with the enemy surviving in a social media world of hackers terrorists Russians and and fake news Clinton. Thank you for rolling this out here tonight. Thanks for coming on. Why focus on these news outlets and not the traditional twitter addresses the bots and the trolls that drove so much of it in two thousand? Sixteen if you look back four years ago compared to now Russia led the way in disinformation and use of social media. We know a lot about this from the Muller report fast forward to now. There's so much disinformation out on social media platforms. It's very very difficult to parse out. What would be Russia? Iran or China to other countries will will look at in this project or any domestic influence activity. And so. What's remarkable when you look at this going back to the last election and you put Very appropriately in the opening here Vladimir Putin doesn't hide who they like or who they don't like if you read read what the Russian news outlets are putting out what their take is on the different candidates. They'll actually signaled they'll point such that you can then go look and social media and you can try and find where that inauthentic activity is where those might be pushing where that faker manipulated news might be leading. Someone in a direction isn't quite the truth because we're all news consumers. I always ask you when you come on for a consumer guide. What Ca- what does this messaging look like? What are these stories? Look like. What's the tone home? What do they say about Biden that so good so bad and Gabbard that so good for example? Well there's two kinds of bias you can inject it doesn't matter what kind of News L. You're one you can. Just overtly stay bias inside the articles right. You can take a very positive slant or a negative slant or its selection bias. which is you just select stories analogous lex stories which then leads to a framing of a candidate as being positive or negative? What Russia does this quite fascinating as they are much like any? US News outlet. That's out there but they're very. Hey good pushing the corners when you look at those charts I always look at about seventy percent of mentions we'll be neutral and that'd be very consistent with any. US News outlet that you might see where we're always looking at the fringes when you go towards the negative or towards the positive you see that middle number of neutral move in one direction or another. That's where that very slight nick push left or right positive or negative is going for those candidates and so with Biden. It's fascinating not only. Does he show the most overwhelming compared to the rest of the field probably a lot. More percentage wise than what you'd see in the United States it focuses generally on a couple issues one his age and his health very similar to what we saw with Hillary Clinton's health back four years ago and then the other part is Ukraine hundred Biden a that sort of a conspiracy is already there and it echoes. A lot of what the president is talking about in the United States. This time around. They don't really rush. It doesn't need to make fake news or manipulated truce. America's doing plenty of that forum and you see them mostly recycling cycling repurposing specific narratives. This case out of the president and then pushing against spider himself how do they how do they talk up Tulsi Gabbard. They just speak speak to what her issues are but what they're doing is they're actually pushing her and pushing her content talking about or more than you would see typically in the audience base for Russia. They what what she says is perfect for what they want Americans to here. She is pushing against the established Democratic Party. She's army officer with a combat record. She's been over over to Iraq. She is saying that the US should withdraw from foreign battlefields. I think she alluded last debate. That president trump was backing al Qaeda and Syria which is pretty crazy statement to make so all of these things position on Syria visiting the side? These are things that Russia wants support. So it's natural for them to amplify her a her positions. We are not done in fact we are just starting this conversation with you because we've got a long year ahead. Please promised to come back and continue talking. I will and Iran. Ron is up next. We'll do a very similar analysis and we'll also talk about president trump and the Republican candidates using the same exact metrics as well test. I've not fantastic. But you know what I mean Clinton lots thank you so much for coming on coming up for US ahead of this week's public hearings. A smear campaign continues aimed directly only at those witnesses seated at the table more on that when we come back. Hey It's Chris Hayes. Sometimes it's good to just take a step back from the day to day onslaught of news and take a broader. Look at the issues. That's what I'm doing each week. My podcast why is this happening. Were exploring topics ranging ranging from school segregation to climate change. Well the way that I think of it is. Climate Change will be to the twentieth century. What Madeira not was the nineteenth century? It'll be the central subject of of questions about economic justice. Everything you care about in the world will be affected by climate and digging deep with guess uniquely qualified to analyze issues from mass incarceration to race relations as you so for the first time in our history at the national level whites are on the verge of losing their majority status in twenty years. And I think it's no coincidence that our politics are getting more more tribal. Join me for. Why is this happening? New episodes every Tuesday wherever you get your podcasts. Von of it's the target of a smear campaign by Roy Don shower transcripts. The president of Ukraine was not a fan of hers. Either I mean he did not exactly say slowing things squeezing never-trumper his lawyers the head of the never trumpers. They're dying breed but they're still there. Nobody had with all those people very few people that I know came forward and they only came forward when you as and some about them and never trumpers. Colonel is a never-trumper we'll be joined that you real soon. Not Clear what the president was referring hiring to there but he continues to respond to this growing evidence against him with attacks on the impeachment inquiry witnesses that includes an aide to his own vice president. Let's not forget. He called Jennifer Williams never-trumper and suggested she read the summaries he released of two calls with the president of Ukraine. That was his advice. Nice to her Williams who works in the White House was actually on the July call so she can do one better. She's one of nine witnesses scheduled for this week's public hearings with US tonight to talk about all of it Korean jean-pierre chief public affairs officer for move on and Allama of both the Obama campaign and the Obama Obama White House also happens to be the author of the new book. Moving forward a story of hope hard work and the promise of America and Rick Wilson Republican strategist outages due soon to be following up on his first work. Everything trump touches dies with his new work running against the devil due out in early. Twenty twenty good evening and welcome. Come to you both So Rick Wilson Given that lead in. I'm reminded that Senator Ron Johnson. Republican Wisconsin called Vin men a bureaucrat trying to a sabotage the president are the Republicans position changing on the fly. If you're a vulnerable Republican senator and one of your colleagues talking that way. It can't be good for you know you've got you've got to wonder about how far they can push this fairly bogus argument that are members of the secret. Never trump in Kabul. This is a guy who has had honorable and courageous service in the military. He has a serious person. And it reflects terribly on on guys like Ron Johnson. And the and the enabler caucus of Donald trump to try to attack their integrity and attack their history and to try to ascribe for them. You know I've missed colonel. Never trump meeting meeting sorry. Sorry to disappoint the Donald on that one but this is a guy who has seen something and as as have many many other witnesses now and it requires requires this structure that says every single one of these people is a liar and only Donald Trump tells the truth. That's the structure that puts them at risk politically down the line. Corrine a lot of Democrats a lot of folks remember what happened during the Cavanaugh hearings. We remember almost burned into your mind. The concern vases of of the flakes of the world of the Collins of the world. We know how they all voted in the end. What are the chances that this could and in a similar way so I think the difference here? Brian is that the longer that you see The public sees Donald Trump's criminality analogy out in the public kind of in the public as a top story the worse it actually is for Republicans and the better it is for Democrats. There was stories upon stories stories. About how impeachment would hurt Democrats but under Nancy Pelosi's leadership she has kept to the message. made it about the facts not made it about politics. Tuxedo impeachment is a political act. But you don't even see that the case that America have is so strong and what are Republicans are saying their message which is okay. Yes he did it. But it's not impeachable but you don't see that in the polling you. The polling is moving more and more the public opinion towards Democrats. The impeachment impeachment supporting the impeachment inquiry even to a point where they support impeachment and removal. And so this is where we are. And let's not forget about Kentucky Louisiana that has changed this whole game as well. Donald Trump put impeachment on the platform in Kentucky in Louisiana Louisiana Kentucky. Lucky they had ads. The governor. There had Republican governor had ads on impeachment so the the politics on this is changing very very quickly Korean. You're so so right to bring that up the reelection of John Bel Edwards just this weekend Rick is is Bolton testimony. A potential game changer to you if we we see him raise his right hand. I think it's important for two big reasons. The first is John. Bolton is a particular space and the conservative ferment. He is a guy who spans all the way back to the the Reagan era. Frankly even certainly before as a national security Republican he has never been Venal. He's ever been a guy trying to monetize anything. He's never had an agenda except for his belief insecurity. You can disagree with it or not. But that's what John Bolton is. The second thing is highly relevant is. He's the national security advisor to the president of the the United States who is going to have direct first person knowledge of the conversation. He is out there. Saying this is a drug deal is going to the council trying to to to to short circuit. This crazies Giuliani scheme. That trump has insomnia running. He's doing all these things that that are now part of the legal record and if he testifies about them it puts the president very much directly in the centre. We have motive. We have action we have we have. Donald Trump is the impetus for this program. And I think it raises the the stakes significantly for the president Both of our guests have agreed to stay with us over the break when we come back. The Senate Majority leader predicting the the impeachment debate will now stretch into the new year. Twenty twenty more on unlikely collision of priorities in Congress. Let's not forget the campaign trail when we come back. Well I'll tell you this particular point is it. Looks to me like the House is going to be on this until Christmas getting comes over to the Senate displaces all other business. The chief justice of the United States is in the chair. Senators are not allowed to speak if to sit there and I'm not sure how long it will go on. I don't know how much longer guess it depends on. How many more witnesses they have you expect that to be wrapped wrapped up before the end of the had? No idea again. I don't have any timetable for that. No will anyone notice if it displaces all other Senate business we hasten listen to ask House and Senate leadership there seem to agree on one thing. It is unlikely. The impeachment inquiry will be over by the end of this year could could still be well underway deep into the twenty twenty primary season. Here's how the calendar or shaping up by the way. There are forty three days until the end of 2019. Three days until government funding runs out. That's expected to get an extension C.. Kicking the can down the road and the Thanksgiving recess starts three days after that. It's twenty seven days until the end of year recess when the House and Senate go home until after the New Year air and seventy seven days from now. The Iowa caucuses back with US colleen. Joan Pierre and Rick Wilson Corinne. What should we remake of this and this is where I ask you if Democrats can walk and Chew Gum? There are a number of Democrats in this race with seats in one one of these houses. Yeah I think Democrats can walk into them. I think that's why public opinion is moving towards the Democrats argument because they're putting together a strong case of I stated before it's funny to hear Mitch McConnell Talking about the Senate business. When he calls his goals he calls his Senate the Graveyard Democrats Democrats have passed more than three hundred pieces of legislation? And a lot of it. All of it really sitting on the desk of Mitch McConnell so Mitch. McConnell is playing with the weak hand in his head only gets weaker. Brian what are the things that Republicans and trump want Mitch. McConnell to do is they want him to do one of these show trials for two days and be done with it but he can't do that because he knows that he's not going to get the vote and he has those vulnerable senators that no that the charges charges that are being accused of being accused of Donald trump are serious and a show. Trial would hurt them. So I think Dahmer Democrats actually have the strong hand on this and it's interesting just to see how week for the first time you see. McConnell is in this in the space working make the case. Yes I know you can make about McConnell and those vulnerable Republican Senators Bryan. I think what's the number one factor whether Donald trump lives or dies is politically speaking. Is Mitch McConnell Waking Up one morning and looking at the polling in Maine and Colorado in Arizona and other places and saying we're GONNA lose majority and if he thinks he's going to lose the majority. This will flip over in a hot minute. The only thing Mitch McConnell cares about preserving his majority in the Senate he doesn't Donald Trump could be is set on fire. And and Mitch McConnell would stand there and go. Oh I'm keeping my dirty good could deal. That's all over. Look like would he give a signal that a vote to remove is he would allow he would allow some of these people that he's kept in check and they are in that category of of Republicans. You would think would be right on this issue because they are people who have some integrity. We kept them very strongly in line saying our base will destroy us if we don't do this if we don't defend him at every turn these guys and I don't want even name them in part because we can name Mitt Romney obvious but there are guys that you would look at ordinarily and say the people with integrity you say Rob Portman for example. The folks like that who ordinarily would be people that that would reject. This is kind of criminal behavior outright and call him out on. It are not going to be in a position of Mitch McConnell. Let's breaks off where they feel as restrained as they do you if it looks like it's GonNa if the public numbers of move where the Republicans you to lose the majority games over Corinne you have me thinking about your mention of both Kentucky and Louisiana. Of course you're in the turnout business really. Do you think this will well and Power Democrats. You heard a lot of self criticism. After the last election that their ground game was week that they weren't going state and local. They were looking looking at racist feeling intimidated and not not deciding not to play. Do you think this will build upon itself absolutely if you look at the political result zolt electoral results in two thousand seventeen and twenty eighteen and now twenty nineteen there is. There is a turning point here. You have the the suburban areas you have a would turn out. It was a coalition if you think about it the suburban areas and black voters in Kentucky and Louisiana coming out and if I'm I'm the Republicans I'm very worried about losing in these two very deep deep red states and I think that there is a reason for Democrats to be encouraged. I think you have voters off their voters. Who voted for trump in two thousand sixteen now turning around in off year? Election saying enough is enough. We are done here and now twenty twenty is right around the corner. Rick Wilson the thirty seconds we have left explain to people that being a Louisiana Democrat. Crat would get you membership in the Republican Party in most other states pretty much Louisiana was a red state. Trending more red particularly after Katrina and this large accidents of African American voters. This this was a place where the we're flying into the rally on paper should have been a great idea. And if it had been President Jeb Bush or Marco Rubio present. Ted Cruz probably worked but right now it's donald trump who has a negative activation potential with everybody he he sees it. Look if I were if I were the Democrats I'd pay the gas cold air force. One is a good do rallies targeting seats because it is not working out like they think it does our thanks to two of our friends. Rick Wilson and Corinne. Johm Pierre. Thank you so much for coming on tonight. The eleventh hour continues right after this before we go tonight. Some reminders for you. Our special coverage of Tuesday's impeachment hearings begins just about exactly nine hours from from now nine. Am Sharp tomorrow morning eastern time Wednesday a more consequential day the normal starts with Sunlen testimony in the morning and then that evening we turn to the law firm of Mitchell Meadow welker and Parker the four moderators for the democratic debate nine eastern time. I'm out of Atlanta and then coverage post-debate right here. We'll be here with you for the entire day for now. That is our broadcast for this Monday. Night right as we start off a new week. Thank you for being here with us. Good night from our NBC News headquarters here in New York. HEY MSNBC listeners. It's me Chuck Rosenberg this week. On the oath I sit down with Roberta Jacobson. The former United States ambassador to Mexico on a day to day basis candidate in Mexico Sokaia affect more citizens of the United States than perhaps anywhere else in the world. Roberta Jacobson has spent her professional life in service to the United States. In her. Or case by advancing its interests abroad responsible for the operation of the US embassy in Mexico and for the crucial relationship with our large and vibrant neighbor to the south. It's very much bringing America to the world and bringing the world back to America. Please join me for that conversation with Roberta Jacobson the a former United States ambassador to Mexico. That's this week on M._S._N._B._C.'s. 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