#314: 3 Ways to Engage Your Team


Every human being needs to believe that the person they work for gives darn about. They are. They are helping business leaders grow themselves their team and their profits. This is entree leadership. Now, here's your host, Ken. Coming to you from the music city. This is the broadcast of leaders pilot for leaders. Thank you so much for joining the conversation. Oh, it's gonna be a good one, our dear friend, Pat Lynch Uni back with us again, you can never have enough, Pat. And so we deliver for you as always and can't wait to tell you about our summit backstage pass. Let's get to it. Pat. Lynch Yoni is the founder and CEO of the table group that is the business by which he does all of their consulting with companies and Pat always writes his books out of the actual consulting experiences. That's what I love about Pat, full disclosure pets, become a good friend. I think that becomes obvious in the conversation. Everytime. We talk and I think he's absolutely one of the best. So you're gonna love this very important conversation, human dignity and performance. This is great conversation for you leaders. And you probably not thought of it this way, but you need to. So here's Pat Lynch unit. This is fun to have you back on with us. And really cited about what we're going to dive into first year firm is pretty fired up about a new conversation about an old pretty consistent problem human dignity versus performance. What is this thing? You're seeing out there in the corporate marketplace. Well, if actually the reason I got into this business in the first place, but we haven't really been all that overt. And that is I actually got into this field because when I was a little kid. My dad got rest his soul heat would complain a lot about work, and he was a great employee. He was a salesman. He liked his customers. He did very well, but every night he'd come home and complain about work because of management. I didn't know what that was. But as I got older, I came to the conclusion that most people thought work was supposed to be kind of miserable or drudgery at the very least, and what we've come to realize, and we had this belief before, but we're being more overt about it is that it's not about. Performance of an organization versus human dignity. It's the two of them go together. And when you look at companies like Southwest Airlines Chick-fil-A, which we use all the time. And there's a reason it's because they're like this. If you do both, that's how you create the sustainably successful company that makes people's lives better. And so we are going to be far more overt about the a big part of our work is about human dignity, and that's not a detraction from organizational performance. It's actually a driver of. So let's go back. What have you found? Yeah. What has led to this? I mean on the servers don't think any leader would want to readily admit, we're not real great at the dignity part of this thing. That's probably not why they got into it. But there have to be some forces, maybe some factors curious what has led to this problem? Where companies aren't thinking proactively intentionally about how the dignity factor of human being walks into their company every day. How that's such a huge role. Organization will help. How did we get here? You know, when I got out of school many years ago. I was under the impression that organizations I call it. They were hard organizations heart organization said it's all about performance and in order to get performance you had to control employee's through incentives and behavioral limitations, and all these things and you did that for while. Eventually they got pretty stressed out. And ultimately, they would burn out and leave. And then you get more of them, and the organizations I were too big management consulting firm software company that was kind of the norm. And I thought okay, that's what a hard organization is. I guess that's how things work. And then I came to realize later that there was also soft organizations, and I learned this when I went to work in HR function at a company, and they were all supposedly about human dignity, and they did that they said we have to protect him coddle, our employee's. But as a result of that. People became very lackadaisical and mediocrity set in and then they become completely disillusioned and unmotivated and both of these left people bad, and what we realized is that a hard organization is not sustainable, and a soft organization is certainly not sustainable, and it just in case. People don't understand the software innovation go to the DMV. It's like these people are totally protected from performance issues, but they're not happy. And we think like talk to people that work in a unionized environment where they don't really care about their jobs, but they're protected, and they're not happy human dignity doesn't come about. When we're protected from having to work hard. But it also doesn't come about. When we're the whip is cracked on us to work hard without a sense of who we are as people. So we came to realize soft and hard organizations of the problem. They needed to be healthy, which is a complete commitment to both dig. And performance simultaneously. That's how I learned about it. My career originally thought, okay organizations are hard and then realized summer soft and neither of them works. Gimme some of the signs. We've got leaders that are listening. We've got people that are working for companies water some signs that you might be working for a company that's hard where the human dignity is is almost a non factor. Well, when you feel like the company doesn't believe that getting to know people as human beings is an import when they feel like these people are commodities, and they're going to quit, and we're gonna rehire other ones. And when they're not investing in the lives of the people that work there. That's a hard organization when they see turnover among good people as just part of the game of business. That's the sign of a hard organization. Also, when they think that employees need to be overly, man. Edged through rules. That's the sign of hard organization. See a healthy organization. That's both embraces. Both good things. They hire people only people that fit the culture. So they don't believe that they should hire anyone intolerate anything. But when they find somebody that fits then rather than controlling them. Inspire them you see the problem here is not everybody belongs in every organization and not everybody's inspire -able. So in a great organization, you don't feel the need to control people's behavior. You actually find the right people given the clarity about what's going on. And then inspire them and turn them loose. And as a result, they perform so the sign of heart organization is one that assumes people are going to do the wrong thing unless they're controlled through a lot of rules and a lot of incentives rather than just inspiration towards what's good. And when they feel like well, a good person left, but that's just the cost of doing business. Good people should never leave a healthy organization. Some good. Employees who fits the culture if they leave. That's the canary in the coal mine. Something's very wrong. No, you're going to be talking about that at our summit events. We're excited about that. And when those events when you guys are working with organizations for we leave the topic. What are you doing you come in with leaders? How are you looking at both of these? What are some of the metrics? We talked about the hardware is Asian but just looking at the balance that that center spot of the graph. If you will between the soft and the hard, how are you helping companies assess whether at what we I do as we work with the leadership team because if they're unhappy and they're behaviorally unhealthy, then it's never going to change the organization. So the first thing we do is we go in and we look at how does this team work together? Do they trust each other? And are they humble invulnerable? Do they know how to have good conflict all those kinds of things? So that's the behavioral part, but we also do and this is mostly about performance is we make sure that those leaders are complete. Lately. Utterly aligned around the basic questions about why we exist. How do we behave? What business are we in? What's our strategy? That makes us unique. What's her biggest priority, and who has to get what done so basic, basic critical clarity? So we are you behaviorally lined. And are you intellectually align then we say now, go out and tell your employees as many times as you can and put just enough structure in place to reinforce it over time. So that's really how to create a high performance organization. Then though, what you have to do is teach all of your managers how to provide people with three things they need to be engaged in love their work. And that is do they feel known every manager if they're not taking an active interest in like knowing their employees who they are where they come from what's going on in their life their family their aspirants if they're not known. They're not gonna love their work. If they don't know why they're job matters. They're serving. Someone in some way. Everybody wants to serve people. Everybody has in their heart the need from God to serve others. And if they don't see why their job is serving someone they can't love their job. And then every imply needs to know how to measure for themselves if they're being successful. If they have no evidence of their own contribution that can't love their jobs. So we I get the executive team clear, and you create a plan, and you get clarity. Then you teach managers to go into the organization and manage these people for engagement, and then you turn it loose and extraordinary things happen. It's absolutely right. Turn these people into just human productivity machines. Because now there's a fire and they get exactly really good. Exactly. And what's funny is the companies that get it? Everybody knows what they do. And yet they don't relate them because they still believe that it's about compensation and rules and the intellectual side of business, and they're ignoring the heart. You gotta have the intellectual. But without the heart. It doesn't matter. You know, this begs the question, though, why said that otherwise, very smart professionals. Don't say I wanna go find out how Chick-fil-A does this or I'm gonna go talk to some southwest executives or I'm gonna listen to what Alamo alley says about changing the culture. I mean, it's out there. Why don't they understand it in dig into it? You know, I asked Gary Kelly seat you of southwest that question. Once I said, Gary why don't all of your competitors? Do what you do. And he thought about it. He's a humble guy. And he thought about it. He said, you know, Pat, honestly, I think that they think this has been Neath them. So they look at it. And they go I'm not gonna act like that. I'm not gonna do those things. I didn't go to business school. I didn't go to Harvard Business School. So that I could actually take an interest in what's going on in the janitors family. This is all intellectual, and ultimately, it's a crisis in humility and humanity. They think that strategic. Case study from business school is how a company becomes successful. And they don't realize that Truitt Kathy built a great chicken sandwich. But that's not the secret to that company. Success? It was the culture he put in there, and it came from how he believes human beings wanna be treated whether their employees, whether they're executives whether they're in the drive through at his coming through to give food. He understand that people know how they need to be treated, and that is their secret sauce, and too many people who are intellectually self impressed fail or refuse to acknowledge that because it seems to simple, you know, what I don't know if I'm right here. But it feels like is I'm listening. I think that's spot on. But I think it's also much harder. It's extra work for the leader to do what you just described. This is beyond the boardroom. This is beyond spreadsheet. This is like this personal again, I'm a pastor's kid. But as I was listening to you talk. I started going that what you just described is leadership that we see modeled in ministry, or in churches. It's not just a leadership position pastors have to lead to make all these decisions. But they also have to lead organization that our people driven. And so they're they're on Sundays in there doing counselling. I guess padded just feels like maybe a lot of these big shots do it. Because it's a lot harder to lead the way. Gary leads and the way the cafes lead. Is that true? Yes. And actually, I should say that there's three biases that prevent a leader from understanding this stuff. The first one is what I call the sophistication bias. And that is this is just too simple. How can this guy without a college degree Bill world's greatest quick service restaurant, and I have four degrees from advanced schools. I should be able to beat him. So they think that goodness and successes sophisticated or nuances that way, the second reason is what we call the adrenaline bias. And that's they want something they can implement right away. If you tell them you're going to have to do this every day over a long period of time. And that's how it's going to take root. They're like, I need a ERP system. I can slam in their implement and see the and the other one is what I call the quantification bias, which is they wanna know what exactly is the ROI on culture. And if southwest and chick flame companies like that are going to it's everything we could never measure the impact in everything. So those are the bias sees and it gets to what you were saying all of those things make it sound hard. And when you realize it's kind of like faith, it's kind of like faith at same. Here's how to have a great life do this and this and this and this over great long period of time. And this is how you're going to find happiness here in eternal and people go. Yeah. I think I can find a better way, and they work, and they do all these things looking for a workaround and realize it doesn't work. And so yeah that sounds too hard. And the thing is except it's the everything else is harder. So true. We'll Pat him excited that we get to talk a little bit. We're not gonna give away will only talk about what you can talk about. But you're working on a new book, and I'm excited about this. Tell us what you can. Well, I probably will tell you everything. My wife said I'd be the world's worst spy. Hey, hey, I'm doing this reconnaissance, you should know what was going on everybody. Gather out. I don't keep secrets very well. So it's called the motive is called the motive. And what it is. It comes about because I was working with enough leaders. I remember I was in a room once the bunch of leaders, and they're asking me questions about how to make the organizations better. And I realized that a decent number of them were kinda rejecting my advice and kind of like the things you were saying before like, oh, that's too hard. I would never do that. And I finally thought why would somebody not want to do this stuff about creating a healthy organization performance dignity and all that? And I realized that it came down to the reason why they became a leader in the first place their motive, and if the motive of being a leader is self-serving, which is hey, I'm working really hard. Because one day I'll have the top job, and I will have arrived. Then they think now I get to do. What I want to do I can pick and choose the activities that I find enjoyable, and I don't have to do all that stuff that I did when I was working my way up the ladder contrast that with the other motive which people that say now that I have the top job. Now things get serious now on the hook more than ever to steward this opportunity. I have to do whatever is required. And if I don't that I'm not treating this job. This is a duty and a heavy responsibility. I think using the world of sports as an example. It's like the difference between a player who gets drafted in the NFL and they get drafted in the NFL. And they think I've arrived. This is it all that work has paid off. I'm going to have a great house. I'm gonna be famous. I'm gonna make a lot of money. Wow. This is going to be a blast versus the guy who says, oh, no more people are going to know what I'm doing. Now, they are going to be paying me money. So they expect a lot more me I have to work harder than ever. Because if I don't I will have failed. The difference between those two motivations is everything. And when you go to a CEO, and you say you have to do something that's not fun. But you're the only person who can do it. And they didn't take the job for the difficulty. They took the job because they felt like it was a reward. They're not going to do those things. So the subtitle of the book is why so many leaders abdicate their most important responsibility while that's incredible. And that's how I find it is like I'm not going to do that. I'm like, why did you become the CEO? And if they were honest with mayor had a few glasses of wine, they'd say, are you kidding? Because I this is a reward this. I get the play. Now have you seen the videos of the draft? Combine for Tom Brady. It's been servicing over the last couple of months leading into the Super Bowl. And this guy you should see the video footage of him. Now, I'm a Michigan fan fans. You know? So I knew about him. But this guy's drafted late. You know, nobody around. Six round he looks. He doesn't look like an athlete in these video now. And here's a guy that we all know a story. He gets his chance. He's a little known backup. Nobody's projecting great things. But he's reached the pinnacle of his industry the NFL football. And Drew Bledsoe goes down with an injury. And this kid comes in and he's just always out prepared everybody. Like, he just never took it for granted. There's something to be said for him versus teeing you up because I love when you talk sports versus a story like a toddler innovates or some boyhood idol, Johnny Mandel, Johnny Manziel's, another one, and they feel like well, this is just I'm so talented that this is what I'm supposed to get is not pretending to be a star in the NFL. I mean, that's a motivation as well. Gosh, Joe Montana said every year he'd come to training camp. And thought that the new quarterbacks they brought in because they have to bring a new ones might be out. So he had to work to earn his spot. And did you hear the story about this kid for the forty Niners this year, Nick Mullins? Yes credible. Third stream. Yeah. Right. He didn't even suit up. You don't even do after every game. First of all, he prepared like crazy. He's an prepared like I was going to start. And then after the game he'd go out I guess onto the field, and he goes to the rundown of every play that was called in the game. And he would act it out like he was the player. So Garoppolo gets hurt Beth or gets hurt. He goes in. And he is totally prepared. And I just love stories like that again, he sees it as a responsibility and as a reward. Exactly, right. I gotta go lead the team to victory, right? That's why you prepared because you believe you can do it, and you should do it. And it's a drilling, but it's like a responsibility. You take it seriously. Like, this is cool. Hey, I'm going through this right now. Right in an article. Actually, I grew up a Celtics fan because my dad's brothers went to USF. And so my dad got to know Bill Russell in Casey Jones years ago. So I'm a Celtics fan and they've got this guy. Kyrie Irving on the team who is extraordinary. But I think it's about him. And it's not about the team. And I actually posted that on one of these. I know I'm a geek about this on a Celtic site and said, I really think they need to trade him if they want to do better, and the I got ripped by their fan, or are you kidding this as the most talented guy ever, but I'm convinced that he wanted to be the superstar. And that's why he left the Cavaliers and went to the Celtics and they actually played better without him last year than they are this year with this undeniable, by the way, all you go look, and by the way, you can also look at now we're really nerd you non-sports fan stay with this. This is relevant. So you guys like Jalen Brown who stepped up last year and their numbers and contribution are down. Go look at it. This is an opinion. This is a fact our numbers are down this year as a result of him coming back. Their record is worse. I mean, it's undeniable that the guy's a cancer with the organization, and you know, it's amazing though. And this is ready or sports fan or not what happens this when you tell if you were to go to the leaders of that team in the organization or their fans, they would say, are you kidding? We would get criticized. Honestly, they would say we would get criticized so much if we let him go and this happens in companies all the time. Are you kidding? That's my top salesman where she's my best executive, and it's like, but do you know, how their behavior impacts the behavior of the people around them years ago before I started my company now I had an employee who was not a team player. Even though I said that was one of my core values, and she just got so much work done and took so much off my plate that I was like I'm glad and I did the worst thing ever. And I promoted her and the people on my team said, do you realize what violation of your values? This is. And so I let managed her off the team in a good way. I realized she wasn't gonna change. I found another spot for in this big organization that wasn't didn't have the same values as my the rest of my team's performance through the roof. But I had to be willing to have some people go she gets a lot done. Why did you let her go? It's like because it's more than just their individual talent and contribution. It's how that their behavior affects others and in the world of sports, how many teams just never get great Bill Belichick has gotten rid of some of their most talented players purely because they didn't fit on the team. Well, you don't want to stay here because it's so relevant. So one thing ability has done is he'll take veteran players that are cast off some of them even problem children on other teams. And the sports hog will say this seems like a risk for Bella check. He brings that player in their poster children. They go from problem child two poster child, this is a leadership issue. What what what happens otaly? Well, it's that the leader has to recognize that you're not managing people in vacuum. And again, individual talent, and Mick spirits and statistics are things that you think it's an intellectual decision. Here somebody, but it's there's an integrative emotional decision to. And you got to look at this person say how are they going to impact others and that's much harder to quantify justify, but you have to take that into consideration. And it's why Bella check drafts players. I mean, there's people that would still say he's a terrible drafter because the players he gets every year at the draft. You're like he that was a reach. And then it's like, yeah. But he saw something that other people didn't and he's looking for intangibles that are real hard to quantify. They're just hard to quantify. You can't measure a guy's hand size and teddy Bridgewater. Didn't get drafted by the Cleveland Browns three years ago because his hands were at quarter of an Schmahl or than Johnny Manziel's. Right. And it's like really, but look at the guy he's a model citizen. He he makes everybody around him better. People love to play with him. He's humble each hardworking. Nope. His hand size was this much smaller ridiculous. Well, you know, here's another thing too. That every coach I've ever studied that I would say. Great has a system, and so they interchange players, and I think leaders have to understand their own system. And you talked about when you were leading a company early on that one gal didn't fit your culture. That's your system cultures part of your system is the way we do just going to say that. Yeah. It's so you gotta bring in people that fit your system. This is what Bellichik does. Well, he brings in somebody. They knows he's gonna play the inside linebacker position. Exactly how I wanted to be played. I don't care if he's fast enough. He's gonna play the way we wanted to play it. So they go nuts. I know, you know, now baseball isn't the same as team sport as others. Although there's teamwork involved. But do you know that the major league baseball record for the most regular season wins in a season? Which is by far the best indication of team because the postseason is a crap shoot. According to Billy being in his book moneyball, which even if you're not a sports fan, that's a great book to grow. But the team that won the most games in the history of major league baseball was the CI. Title mariners. I can't remember what year it is. But I do know this. It was the year after they had finished trading away. Randy Johnson, Ken Griffey junior and Alex Rodriguez. They got rid of three certain hall of famers and the year. Those guys were all gone. They broke the record for the most wins. And so how in the world can we think that individual talent? Whether it's in a software company Bank, a restaurant or a professional sports team. Individual talent is not the issue. It's knowing your culture, and what your system is finding people who fit that and turning them loose. That's exactly ROY are. I wanna go back into a bit of what's in this book the motive. Of course, you talk about this a lot. And I don't know if I've ever asked you this question this way. But humility I mean, this is what's the requirement of being a servant leader. This is where you got the right mode of when you're humble, you know, a lot of these humble leaders you've already mentioned them. Dan, Cathy, Gary Kelly Alamo alley but what if someone's listening right now, and they? Oh, I don't know that I am as humbles I need to be or how do I assess myself in really begin to be intentional about humility because we're all human beings. And I think the premise of this question is I believe that you can be intentional about humility and guard yourself and keep yourself in a state of humility and try to guard from the trap of entitlement leadership, the praise the power all this. What would you say to that person on assessing our humility? And then how do we stay intentional? Well, I I would say that humility is a virtue. It's the chief virtue the root of all sin is pride than humility is the antidote to that. So it's a virtue, which means it can be developed. It's not an inborn trait. Okay. So that's really huge. Because I think a lot of just don't know if I'm not humble, it's like then get humbled. Everybody can be and what you need to do is ask yourself. If you see us Lewis had the best quote about humility. It's not thinking less of yourself. It's not like, you should think you're terrible person. It's you should think about yourself less. Are you thinking about others? Do you realize that you are not more important or better than anyone else in the world? We are children of God. And you are not more important. And do you live your life with that reality front and center every day? Now, if you're great at something, go be great at it and serve other people with it. And rejoice that you're good at it. But realize that's not up to you to feel better about yourself. And that was a gift and the definition of a gift that someone gave it to you. And that's God. And so become humble humility is so freeing and pride is so enslaving. So what I would say go read about it. Go read, the great writers read the bible read about all the people that really thought and there's books out today about humility and commit yourself to becoming humble because if you're not humble, you are not going to be happy. If you need really practical reason to do it. You're also not going to be a great team player. You're going to have real imitations in your personal relationships. And at the end of the day, you're gonna live with a lot of regret. So double down on that humility, and there's I'm not an expert on it. But I know that it doesn't come from mastering behavior becomes from really understanding what it is in recognizing that we have no reason to be anything. But humble one of the things you did you wrote a book, of course, the truth about employee engagement, and I'm studying all these data points. As part of what I'm doing on. The Ken Coleman show engagement is not good in America. Seventy percent of American workers are disengaged to the point that they hate their job as a Gallup two thousand seventeen poll you touched on earlier. Do they feel known? They know that their job matters. They can they see the measurement for their success. Is that those three things again that you touched on or are there other ways to say, okay, we're going to have to really take an assessment of where a company engagement, and how do we do this across the board and make sure that goes deep. I think it's a couple. Things. I think that first of all we have to disabuse ourselves the idea that engagement is a function of money and status. The fact of the matter is there are people like talk about Mike. Rowe his show, dirty jobs. There are people in the world that have jobs that seem very unattractive who are very engaged and go home at night feeling great about what they do. And there are people who make millions of dollars sitting in a high rise office in New York doing something relatively sexy and high profile who are miserable. So it's not about money. It's not about status. Even though the world will tell you. That's what makes somebody happy. And this is something I know you love career stuff. So do I and I love your books and your new one coming out. It's fantastic. If you encourage somebody to do what they're meant to do. They're gonna find more fulfillment. But what they need more than anything from their manager. Is they need to feel like they're known. Somebody cares about them. There are professional football players who are making millions of dollars working half the year at a child's game. And I've been around them in the locker room at training camp. And they're really unhappy because deep down inside they know my coach could give a crap about me. He never talks to me. They don't know what's going on in my life. He doesn't ask about my kids or about what's going on. And as a result, they're miserable. And we think what a spoiled rotten Brad. It's no every human being needs to believe that the person they work for gives a darn about who they are as a person. And if we're not doing that. And every leader I talked to Ken says, you're right, Pat. I know I have to do that. I remember when I first started working I wanted that more than anything. But Dan, I'm just so busy. And I forget, and I and I say we'll start doing it now, and they go that's going to be kind of weird and awkward, I'm like. Yeah. It is just people and say, I haven't really taken an interesting person. That's stupid. I'm sorry for that. I'm kind of embarrassed I'd like to start. Now. Can we talk about what's going on in your life because I'd really like to know, and I'll share with you going on in mind. No employee is going to turn their back on that. But. We have to humble ourselves enough to say, I'm sorry. I haven't done this. Well, interesting starts there. This was going to say keep the starting point was communication, not a reward not lavishing them with a gift or or an Atta. Boy, it was just hey, what's going on in your life? Do you know what happens when you don't know somebody and you're not doing these things we're about to talk about? But you pay them more. There's research that shows that that actually frustrates them. Because now they feel like they're being bought. You know, there is a social psychology study years ago. I remember I learned about in college. And I've heard it since then where they had these people on the street go up to somebody and ask for a favor. Like, hey, could you help me move these boxes and a high percentage of people did it? And then they went to people and said, hey for five bucks. Would you? Help me move these boxes and far lower percentage of people did it. They didn't wanna feel like it was an economic decision. People don't work for economics. They work because they believe in the mission they need money to live. But that is a satisfied and not a driver. When companies think we need to increase people stock and increase their pay and their bonuses. And that is going to take care of their engagement issue. They never get what they want. It's crazy. I gotta repeat this. This is so good. I wrote this down money is a satisfied or not a driver that ought to be a leadership mantra Yata chant that for I don't know fifteen times before he walked in the office everyday yet because you know, once you make enough money, you're not going to turn down a bonus or a raise. But it has diminishing marginal returns, but getting reminded by your manager, and your customers that what you did really helped them and being celebrated and known nobody you never get tired of that you want more and more and more of that. It's like love it's like a kid doesn't want their dad to buy more sneakers. He wants them to spend more time and to hug him and to to give him more encouragement. No kid says that's enough encouraged nobody ever quitted job. Like, hey, enough recognition. So true. This genuine on me. It's driving me. Santa's exactly so good. All right. It's gonna be fun to be in San Diego with you'll be here before we know it. It's always good to be with you in person. And you're on this program so much because we value so much and just feels trite only say thanks for being with us. But we just we love you, Pat. You do such good work for so many leaders, and you're always refreshing can't wait to be with you in San Diego at our some of it. Well, I could do one of these calls with you. What's the week? It's a blast. Always fun to have Pat with us, and he's going to be with us again at summit, and I can't wait. Speaking of summit, I told you people at the top of the program about the summit backstage pass people are going what in the world is a backstage pass. Wait, no longer, the summit Venezia's sold out for months, but we're gonna have so much fun. And we wanna be able to bring a lot of that content back to you. And we try to do that every year. And so now we're going to give it to you via the summit backstage pass. If you're gonna be able to watch keynotes from Dave Ramsey, Chris HOGAN, and myself and get the digital copy of the workbook. So that you can follow along and take notes is a great resource, and it's free. And I mentioned that it's free. It is free. Here's how you get text back stage pass. Now, there's no spaces all one word back stage pass text that two three three four four four. That's three three four four four or you can get the link in the show notes. All right. Big thanks to Pat Lynch unique for being with us. We love him always grateful for his. And we are grateful for you on behalf of the entire entreleadership team. Thank you so much for listening. We'll talk with you again, very soon. Hey, folks, I wanna make you aware that we have other great podcasts from Ramsey solutions. Here's a sample of the Ken Coleman show. According to a recent Gallup poll, nearly seventy percent of Americans are disengaged at work. If you dread going into work every Monday morning, and you're just trying to make it to the weekend. The Ken Coleman show is for you. Everyone has a sweet spot. You're sweet spot is at the intersection of your greatest talent. In greatest passion. We will help you. Discover what it is. You were born to do. And then we'll help you create a plan to make your dream job. A reality you matter, and you have what it takes. Join the conversation on the Ken Coleman show to hear full episodes. Just search Ken Coleman in items or go to Ken Coleman, show dot com.

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