The New Howard Stern, Ben Shapiro DESTROYED, and Kamala Harris Reboots | The Press Box
Okay. It's as Kelly and welcome to the ring podcast network. The NBA playoffs are in full swing, and we have coverage across all of our channels to keep you up to speed as we make our way towards the finals make sure to check out the ringer NBA show for daily coverage of the games from each series and the ringer dot com to read Kevin O'Connor, Dan Devine and the rest of our NBA experts breakdown every key matchup and don't forget to tune in every Sunday evening to the Bill Simmons podcast to hear Bill and Ryan russillo. NBA reactions from the weekend as always these can be found on apple Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. David. Facebook cofounder. Chris Hughes turned heel against his old pal. Mark Zuckerberg this week. What I want to know is he's it. Okay. For us to mainstream. The phrase turned heel. I'm glad that you brought this up because the ringer dot com. Reputable website the ringer die com. Used the phrase turning heel or he'll turn in reference to a certain game of thrones character four times today by my count. Yes. That is it. I'm I'm happy that wrestling parlins is has you know, anytime it bust into the mainstream. Although I think we all wrestling fans got a little bit beaten down by the Donald Trump is pro wrestling. Essay fest of twenty sixteen to present. But yeah, I mean, listen, it's important on the Chris used front to point out that just because you turn on your partner doesn't necessarily make you a he'll I think if you're if you're cutting ties with the with the with the behemoth Facebook, you might be turning baby face for the first time in your in your wrestling career. So it just depends on who the evil guy is who the guy from the forces of light is. Yeah, you're you're saying this is actually Bill does is actually a different wrestling reference. You're saying Chris coups turned face. Yeah. He's eastern. I that's that would be my wrath the top take. No. I mean, I don't I'm not some doctrine. I don't have some hard and fast opinion on the eagles a Facebook. But I would think that that would be book face you, build just because you build into the name doesn't mean that you're that. That's what side of the spectrum you're on. I mean, listen, you can toss your partner the replay glass window, and then strut in your sure, listen, a leather jacket, and it's clear that you're turning heel. But there's definitely some splits even. Violence, splits where you know, the the the active part, the actor the aggressor ends up, you know, more of a fan favourite than before. And I think that's what we're looking at with Mr Hughes. Mr Hughes, also great wrestler. We're the ball. God. That's so and so's music of media podcast. This is the press box a part of the ringer podcast network. The press box is the media podcast. We are not allowed to be late with your post-presidential memoir. Right curtis. David shoemaker, the ringer here with three topics for your pleasure and amusement. I David Howard Stern has written a new book. And according to the journalism angle does. You're Howard Stern has matured. What do we make it? The king of oh media's grownup period. Second haha, right wing wonder can Ben Shapiro got owned on television? We mostly laugh, but we also at marvel at the invasiveness of the British celebrity interview. And finally, Kamala Harris became the latest candidate to reboot or presidential campaign. What does it say about Harris? And what does it say about reading the tea leaves of the Democratic Party all that? Plus the notebook dump and the overworked Twitter joke of the week. But first David, but the time anyone is listening to this pod. Howard Stern will have published his third book, which is called Howard Stern comes again. And by the way, David can I tell you how ninety? S that double entendre of title is doesn't it remind you of the old days when Howard was on FM and would talk about someone pleasure in themselves. Like, we were just taking this whole language of FCC, mandated language, very funny. Anyway, if you've read anything for Howard's media to her, and I know you have. Yeah. The takeaway seems to be the journalist marveling at the way, he has matured the way he is evolved. He's not a shock jock anymore. He's a long form celebrity interviewer. What do you make of his purported transformation? Well, I mean anyone of our generation who who, you know, grew up more or less listening to stern. I'm sure remember is that one of his biggest points of discussion all along the way were were the various imitators various pretenders to the throne. And I think that you know, and this is the you've talked about a lot and written about to you know, there were wanna be Howard. Stern's. Filling up the airwaves during his peak. But I think more significantly influenced the entire subsequent generation of radio and television personalities, and so that combined with the sort of general moral decline of the culture, Bradley stated, I think made anything that he was doing, you know, they don't know there's really a place for shock jocks anymore, at least not not in the same sort of sphere that same that same mode of like just sort of poking the bear, you know, rabble-rousing that sort of thing, I think you have to have a much different tack to be, you know, to be that sort of offensive these days in its in its hard to be what Howard was, and I think that that coupled with the fact that he has certainly evolved as a human being and a lot of that has come. I think probably with his time on you know, we being unserious and not being in direct competition. Looking at numbers every day to to see what to you know, to sort of put him in the position of constantly upping, the ante. Yeah, it's a two track of Lucien, isn't it? Because on the one hand, I do think reading the interviews. It did one with David. Marchesi in their times. I want the Hollywood reporter that he has gone to a lot of therapy. He his obviously discovered some things about himself and so two rethought a lot of the stuff from his radio days. And I believe that there is the part of this as a sincere transformation. I also believe part of it is probably commercially minded, I think these things tend to be complex, and we try to reduce them to one thing or the other and in fact, usually with humans, they're both. And you know, he even said in an earlier interview, I saw that you know, he was worried about his relevancy and doing those kind of jokes about race about women about sexuality in twenty nineteen ain't gonna do it. And when there's YouTube and all kinds of ways to be quoted instantly, and to get in a totally different kind of trouble that he got into you know, in the eighties nineties, it just doesn't work. You know, I think there's a commercial imperative to where it's like if I still. If I wanna be big now, or I want to be maybe even different the being big is being respected. I do need to enter this kind of grand old man of radio phase, where it's like, oh, you know. Hey, you know, he's the guy who gets stuff out of celebrities. He's a guy can sit down the other day with the Shirley's there and Seth Rogan into this big interview that everybody was quoting to me last week. I just think that is interesting as a longtime Howard Stern fan yourself and listener when you read these pieces, do you begin to think the people who are writing them, maybe didn't listen to him twenty years ago 'cause my wrong or wasn't? He a good celebrity interviewer back. Then to like, this isn't just totally new is it, no. But I think even if you were listening to him twenty years ago, I think that the I think Howard being a great interviewer with sort of you know, would have been a little bit of a take even though. It's absolutely true. Right. I mean, the the conventional I mean, the overall opinion of him had little to do with the celebrity interviewing any. I guess complimenting complementing Howard. Stern's interview skills in the nineties, would you know, kind of like reading playboy for the articles. You know? Though, I do feel it became a take it became one of those takes. Let's call it early two thousands where everybody would start saying, you know, actually Howard Stern is the best celebrity interviewer. And for the next fifteen years. Everybody thought they were making an original point you hasn't controversy Otake. And in fact, everybody had been saying this a love this little story in the Hollywood reporter stern. I'm quoting here points to an early twenty fifteen interview with Gwyneth Paltrow that we've its way from a discussion of relationships to one of oral sex as a major turning point in his career. And here's Howard talking head. I said to her Gwyneth, do you blow your husband? I'm an asshole. But sure enough we start talking and she's fascinating. And I'm getting to know her. And then she goes, and then Gwyneth proceeds to describe a sexual act on her own volition. And then Howard says so she took me there. Now now, wait a second. So the idea is in either approach you really just wanted to know about Gwen. A paltry sex life. But. The ideas, you just went a different way to get there. I don't quite see the moral thing. And again, I totally believe he's a different person. But I thought that was really funny. I wrote a piece about Howard Stern and his relationship with sportscasters who are fans of his and one thing that Joe buck told me Joe buck a longtime stern fan, and then later a stern guest a couple of times is he said the biggest thing about his interviews at struck him one that he actually pays attention to what you're saying. And he rolls with you when you answer questions rather than just kind of asking, you know, what what's next list, and he said the other thing is his he's just so self assured for a guy who has made his entire living off describing his insecurities. He is so secure in himself that he can just watch you and be like, I know what to say next. I know exactly where to go with this and bucks whole the whole thing with me was like he always says in other words, so you give an answer. And then stern goes. In other words, and kind of restates what you said that's him kind of buying time thinking about what to say. And then boom he with the next question. Tries to dig deeper. He added through interesting. I mean, he anyone that's done any sort of interviewing. I mean live or, you know, in for printer anything else knows it like the that mean, that's the key. Right. That's that's the hardest thing is to stay absolutely present. And to be so prepared that you always know where to go. But to be present enough to take what your subject is talking about and lead to somewhere. Interesting. I mean, I think it's it's impossible to overstate how much his, you know, no matter how much he's changed. How much is history. You know affects the way that he interacts with people the fact that he he got such high ratings for so long that he got every celebrity that he wanted everybody who was doing a press tour came in. And they all knew what they were getting into. And I think that the Gwyneth Paltrow examples is a is a permanent one because I think that you know, she might have gotten to that to that line on her own, but she wouldn't have gotten to that line in any. Other interview. Right. I mean, she she she. I'm sure came prepared to have a certain sort of discussion on the Howard Stern show whether or not that was outmoded or not and even in even during his heyday. I mean, we I mean, I remember you especially see it on that old each show when they had a television show that was the clips from the day's episode or whatever some of the like, the raunchier parts of the show, you could just see him sort of enduring even at the peak, you know, because like people would come in. And he would just sort of be there. You know, there'd be this sort of like put on thrill, but everybody would just roll in like knowing what it was to perform on the Howard Stern show in that. You know, your mileage may vary on how interesting that stuff is in retrospect, but he, but even even Howard, you know, it seemed like it was just there is a certain obviously a titillation. But there is like I said, it seemed like he was just kind of kind of enduring some of that at the time. Yeah. He he had some interesting things with Marchesi to that effect where he said stuff like I was just trying to get people to pay attention to me. So I would say things that I didn't believe because I would just I was so of all I wanna do is lock down people's attention at fifteen. Minute intervals, and even he would key would cut off otherwise interesting guests and just blurt things out because he was afraid the guests were boring the audience so like he had Robin Williams in there or something. And as one of the one of the things the book, he regrets how he handled a Robin Williams interview. But he'd sort of thought he feared Robin Williams was boring. Just imagine that by the way, Robin Williams who was who was who did what Howard Stern did every time. He went on the tonight show and just lit up the place. He feared Robin Williams boring. So he would cut him off here is this interested me, this is stern talking to CBS's Tracy Smith the other day when asked by Smith. What makes you a good celebrity interviewer wide? You think it is that celebrities open up to you? I think what happens is they and I've spent a lot of time reflecting on this. You know, my whole career has been about honesty, painful honesty, you know, penis size insecurities. I hate the way. I look like right now, I'm so aware this camera, and I have my glasses off, and I look horrible you down. Well, thank you. But I feel that way. And so, you know, I think that kind of honesty when people walk in they feel that expectation that maybe they should open up. It makes a lot of sense to you know, if Howard has confessed everything then surely, I can talk about, you know, my bad relationship with my dad or a my divorce from my first wife. This is not be by the way talking. This is this is hypothetical celebrity my divorce from my first wife, whatever it is. And you know, I'm never going to go as far as he did. I think that's powerful to. Yeah. I think that's right. We can talk about it all you want. I mean, there's there's a there's certainly an aspect of it that it's just there's that certain something that only he has you know, there's a way that he can make you feel at ease enough to talk about that. And and obviously, the people all different types of celebrities in in people in politics and everything else people would never say that kind of stuff, and they, you know, found their way to sang it on the Howard Stern show. I mean part of it. I think you know at the time, and this is we'll talk a little bit about our president. But it seemed like you it was sort of an opportunity to say something in a safe space. Right. The there's part of it. Like, your you know, it was accepted. If you were there, if you're on the air, it was at the time, it was it was part of the, you know, you're part of the performance. And I'm sure there's a lot of people who are just dying for opportunities to save some of the stuff that you could only say on the Howard Stern show. There's also the radio aspect of it. The the volume that he produced in our producer. Evan was saying before we started recording. You know, he found some stern fan pages where they're just like trading old, you know, just like bit torrents of rate of episodes like like trading cards, or whatever. I mean, there is certainly the the aspect of it too. It's like, you would do an interview, and it would be lost a history immediately. You know, what I mean like it's not unless it was picked up on the show. I mean, like whose recording this stuff, you know? And there is there is a safety to that too. Yeah. They'll just disappear in the radio airwaves. I like your thing about a safe space. I also think there's this weird process now where every celebrity he goes, and does the interview and does it with any level of honesty comes up more liked than when they went in. And I know on. Dr driving around listen to Syria. Sometimes I'll be like. All right. The David Crosby interview. Now somebody I don't care about at all somebody who I probably just viscerally don't like for no reason at all. But then you listen to go like an hour. Plus with stern you're like, man. That was awesome. Yeah. That was that was incredible Melissa Ethridge. And I'm like, oh, wow. Most Ethridge is bad ass. I ever had had no opinion. But anyway, I've just I I just think that's so funny because I think that's actually to me the most surprising thing because you know, his old is old personality him screaming at Richard Simmons or something. And you you just kind of coming out thinking, Richard Simmons's, crazy and weird stuff. But his new personality somehow transforms the celebrity into somebody like like, I said likeable or Kuo's had this incredible journey that you've been on. It's it's really wild. I think that, you know, David, sportscasters, whatever, I think, you know, that obvious, you know, an ascendant event is podcast. Passed right? I mean, how many times have we? I mean. And and I and I'm sure that a lot of podcasters the best ones like Merrin came out of radio. You know, there's a lot of connective there too. But you know, how many times have you listened to that long-form podcast and been like, oh, man. I really like who whatever athlete or comedian or actor whatever better than I ever thought I wouldn't end it doesn't really click until a few minutes in. And it takes a great interviewer in it takes a link to a period of time, which only Howard Stern is one of the blessed. Few that gut that sort of time to interview people he earned it, obviously. But but he was the only one of the few people interviewing that link for years. I don't know if you're talking about long-form podcasts with the capital Eller lowered. His I'm glad that. It's the latter on Donald Trump stern tells David marches the New York Times, Donald is a will guarded personality. I think he's actually so emotional that somewhere along the line. He had to close it off. That's a valuable technique for people who have been traumatized Donald has been traumatized. Make no mistake up. Leave his father was very difficult. Guy. That's an interesting insight also on Tiger Woods. I love Howard Stern. The sports. Media critic he says, you hated him ten minutes ago. Then he got the ball in the hole and you're redeeming him. Why did you hate him in the first place? You probably shouldn't have hated him. Then because what it is life have to do with you. And now that he was able to be number one at putting the ball in the hole you love him. Again. I don't know. That's I I kind kinda wish I'd written that piece us oh in random stern news stuttering John Melendez also has a book coming out. Go on tweets, I find it very odd. That Howard Stern has coming out with another book two weeks before mine. What does he need to buy other house in Fiji? I just I just one that that stuttering John has a book at all. But two that he would think that Howard. Stern's giant Simon and Schuster book release was just programmed to two aces book out I love that. That's some good stuff by cetera. John. There are David outside of the overwork Twitter joke of the week where we celebrate a gag that was so obvious that all of media Twitter made it at exactly the same time. Can I start with an overworked Twitter joke lawsuit for you? Did you happen to see the peace Conan O'Brien wrote in variety with the title my stupid lawsuit, or he discusses the fact that he settled a case with a man who had claimed that O'Brien in his writing staff stole jokes. Oh, right Twitter account. Uh-huh. And also stole jokes from this guy's blog. A Brian's piece on the one hand is his very carefully written thing where you can see that. He's come to this conclusion where he's trying to concluding the case. I want to you know to overrun anything. But essentially, he's making the point that it sort of impossible to write original Joe comedy anymore. He is essentially just talking about the overwork Twitter joke of the week in his way. And that you know, we all come up with the same lines at the same time in even site. Some of the times that he and multiple late night. Hosts had the same joke on the same night. It's just funny to me that we gave everybody the tools to write gags. And this is the reason we do this everywhere because it's just funny and that everybody comes up with the same jokes. And even the professionals come up with the same jokes. The people who are paid to be funny anyway, that's funny. Anybody wants to check it out. Please do in other overwork news. Here's a tweet from the hill. David Sarah Sanders, who is of course, Trump's practice secretary hopes people remember her as being transparent and honest. Yeah. It was nowhere Twitter joke to have some fun with that. I really hope people will remember me someone tweeted as a power hitting gold glove center fielder for the Red Sox. I hope people remember me as Livia to Havilland what a poll that as I hope. And Finally, I hope I'm remembered for winning the WWE heavyweight championship and an Oscar for my performances Godzilla, thanks to Josh Sandon for that one. Some overworked Twitter low hanging fruit. Did you see the new coach of the Cleveland Cavaliers is university of Michigan coach John beeline? Yeah. It was a very easy of Twitter joke to say you could say he made a beeline a Michigan. Thanks to Cheesehead sports nut. It was very overworked Twitter joke that I don't understand. But I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna catch up when I get back to the states to say next week on game of thrones. The target area administration announces infrastructure week. I think believe. That I believe that has to do with the plot to his thanks to skirt Rambus for that. When our David topic number two. We gotta talk about Ben Shapiro. Oh, man. Okay. How much did you enjoy? This is mostly a ha ha I've got very little agenda here. But how did you how much did you enjoy? The Ben Shapiro clip of him getting interviewed about his new book on the BBC. I mean, I'm glad that we're doing multiple segments on new books. I think just for the literacy of our country. That's an important step. Amen. Yeah. That was it was it was quite a show, man. I mean, just one of the one of the all time, I don't know how deep I should get into this right off the bed. But I mean, the reason why this is great for anyone who's wondering like who the hell is Ben Shapiro, or why do we care? Ben Shapiro is the I would say the the leadings of new media conservative it when it comes to X destroys, why YouTube videos, and he is, you know, amongst a younger audience. I think this sort of the the sort of economy of debate club conservatism. And obviously, he's very. A young, and that's part of his calling card to he's been around since he was a a wee lad. So yet, it's pretty impressive though, that his greatest moment in the sunlight exists only on kind of ironic terms, right? I mean, the reason why this is blow blew up so much is because he got destroyed. He got owned. He got you know, his he got served up what he purports to serve up on a regular basis. And now, it's it's you know, it's online everywhere to. Yeah. I was also struck. I mean, I mean that that's the first part of this. Right. Is you get out of the nice bubble? Where people who like you are interviewing you, or you're just destroying college kids who are kind of helpless. Yeah. And it goes badly the second part of this to me, this even more interesting is just the fact that you submitted to a British interview and kind of belatedly found out what a British interview is about his. Interviewer on the BBC was injured. Neil who Shapiro at one point. We listened a little bit of the end of this. Yes. Fleming's that we play just a little bit of the end of the greatest interview in the history of books, and I've never had until that brief myself this. That's not the issue. You have. It's an interesting book. But my point is you book claims from time to time your book is well done so several times and I'm about to do. So again, if you would let me just finish the question, you bet. Turning on Judeo Christian values in this senators voting. What are the values that studying? It's back on. I, you know, I'm not inclined to continue in interview with a person is badly motivated as you as an interview or so I think we're done here. I appreciate your time. All right. Well, thank you for you time, and for showing that anger is not part of the American physical just goes, not Mr. Shapiro. We'll say goodbye. Amazing. My goodness. His entire reputation is sort of a lot of his reputation is based on this. This sort of boasts that he could you know that if given equal footing in a in a in a fair playing field and even playing field he could beat any live in debate. And he goes up against someone who's not even a liberal and who's not even trying to debate him, and he just sort of melts under the pressure. It's it's a little bit of a mind boggling, but you know, thoroughly enjoyable experience. Yeah. I mean, if anybody who thinks that as Shapiro did briefly that Andrew Neal is a liberal, and that that was the reason he was questioning him roughly about his book, I would invite you to check out the political positions portion of meals Wikipedia page, especially his views on climate change in HIV aids. He he's not a liberal in fact runs the company that owns the media company that owns. The spectator. The long conservative magazine. The funny thing about this is is I think Shapiro's just so not used to television interviews working like this. I have no doubt in America that lots of print interviews work like this where the person asking the questions is. You know, being skeptical is playing devil's advocate is taking flimsy ideas, and challenging the person who's being interviewed or on the book tour in this case to try to defend them or to try to bolster them. But that doesn't really exist on television in the United States outside a what like the political Sunday shows. Maybe I mean, I I was just thinking about this while I was watching this clip. What on American television is like this at all even with you know, polite sort of pushback. Yeah. I mean, certainly not much when. It comes to politics. Right. I mean, it's you're either. I mean, you're almost always going into friendly territory. And when you're not you're kind of very aware immediately aware that that's where you're headed. Are you? Sure, you get a heads up from your publicist. It's sort of surprising that he that. He was that. He was so surprised or so caught off guard by this interaction. But, but yeah, I mean, I just can't imagine as crazy as it is. I just can't imagine any place. Like, you said for polite pushback, and you could tell by his answer some of these questions about early abortion and various other things that he was either not in the mood or not prepared to to to answer these questions. For. I can't do the pod tonight. I was at a thing that the guardian had here, and it was the guardian live featuring Tony Blair, and it was like an hour and a half. And what was so funny? It was it was a journalist from the guardian interviewing him. And of course, what Tony Blair wanted to do more than anything was peacock about Brexit and lay into everyone left, and right who was responsible directly or indirectly for the Brexit mess that the UK now finds itself in but the interviewer was like, let's talk eight Mr Blair. Let's talk about your for like twenty minutes about your immigration positions when you were PM and just roughed him up really really nicely again, not being impolite, not destroying your owning anyone. But just actually having a semi confrontational tough interview and a crowd that was overwhelmingly pro Blair loved it. As far as I could tell because it was actually a stimulating discussion. And it's the way you're supposed to interview people. I was thinking like Isaac Kodner who's a Palo mine. Does his interviews over the New Yorker? I think those are great. And I think he's really really talented. But I think part of the reason people get such a charge out of those on Twitter and elsewhere is because they don't read anything like that. Yeah. That just doesn't that doesn't exist in their media diet at all. And when they see something like that like, yeah. Finally, and it's an it's an it's a it's a deficit in the United States. It really is. Because almost I I mean, I was watching blared, and I was like what American president would a be treated like that. And by the way, beasts of mitt to an interview like that, you know, in front of a crowd like what just like if George W Bush gonna go do that is Obama gonna do that? No. They're not for the most part Clinton, certainly not going to do that rather do a road show with with Hillary. Yeah. I just think that's a really interesting thing. And and again of all people to just stay. Into the booby trap. Ben Shapiro really is. And and by the way, if you want to hear the fun is wait till the BBC panel discusses the interview after enter Neil signs off their one of calls, a Shapiro nit wit. That's another great highlight. So we just Ritz talking about Ben Shapiro. What a what a time to the risk of walking headlong into our own overwork Twitter joke. There was a great. I mean, there's been a nice little mean, that's that. He saw a couple of times did juxtaposes two Shapiro tweet. Twin from may of twenty fourteen where he says the right side of history may be the most morally idiotic phrase of modern times history is not God and has no morality, and then of course, from very recently in twenty nineteen my new book the right side of history is out today. It's fantastic. And just keeps on giving. If you're a podcast and a movie fan like I am then you need to check out luminary. They've just lost a bunch of great original shows that you can only find on their platform, including a spin off of our show. 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Live on Hulu. They also got Joel to change his name for the process to Joel Hulu has live sports in bead, Damian Lillard get a tattoo that says Hulu has live sports the most blatant form of advertising ever. Clearly, they really want you to know that Hulu has live sports. And then you can watch live sports news your favorite teams, the biggest games on the top sixty plus channels for just forty five dollars a month. That's right. Follow your teams all season. No cable required. Live TV plan required. Restrictions apply. Learn more at Hulu dot com. All right. David topic. Debra three we've been covering some of the democratic presidential campaigns. And at that, we should get around to Kamala Harris because even though the primary is only a few months old. We already have a another reboot. So better Aurora rebooted couple days ago. And now Kamala Harris, according to the New York Times as Jonathan Martin aced it Wesley is attempting to quote, reset her campaign. You might remember that Harris had twenty thousand people at our first rally in January, but since then her polls have had gone anywhere. And what's happened? Is you sort of stuck between being a centrist former prosecutor and trying to ride the leftward wave at the Democratic Party Martin and Wesley right in the times, some Harris advisors and allies have winced at some of the senators overtures liberals such as calling out for the calling for the eliminating private health insurance and refusing to rule out letting prisoners vote dot dot dot, these supporters believe our pool of attainable voters said. Squarely between the center and the left. What do you make of hera's attempting at this early stage to recalibrate her campaign? I mean, the other thing I heard today was that she's that Iowa voters are salty because she hasn't been spending enough time there, she's kind of putting all over chips in the South Carolina basket, it just sort of feels like I mean, I the connective tissue. There is just that. It's I don't know just like an overabundance of gamesmanship of of of of like trying to. I mean, this is not exclusive to Kamala Harris by a long shot. But also just like what you're seeing. Now with the you know, they're all these rumors going around of a potential Biden Harris ticket like did. There are already in discussions about. It is the too much to ask the people just go to Iowa and try to get votes. You know, kinda see where everything shakes out. I feel like the more that we the the more the politicians try to game the system or you know. It makes it more difficult to vote for the best candidate all the gamesmanship in the world. Isn't it doesn't necessarily add up to winning an election? Do you feel and I'm sure they have like sophisticated polling things that we don't have access to. But you feel the democratic candidates are wrestling with the is Twitter real life question that we've talked about on this body couple of times. Yeah. I think they certainly are there's a degree to which it it. It's it's inevitably real because that's gonna be, you know, the first the first responders to anything that you do say right in that ends up shaping news coverage in that ends up shaping the popular opinion. But the question about whether or not they're indicative of anything other than just some number of hundreds or thousands of voices on Twitter. I mean, I think that's something that these candidates are dealing with every day. John's the trade has this big piece in New York today about this very idea that part of what he says is he doesn't think the democratic party's has really gone to the left. As much as it might appear in one of his are the arguments he makes is that are one of the pieces of evidence. He points out is it, you know, AO see has in many ways become the face of the Democratic Party. And there's two forces doing that one is Fox News which would love to have her be for their own gruesome reasons, the face of the Democratic Party. And in the second force is allies of AO, see or people on her side of of the party, who of course, also actually do want her to be the face of the democratic part because they like her politics more than they like Joe Biden's. But he creates this kind of media sense that the Democrats are in one place, and then you look at the polls and Joe Biden is beating everybody's brains out in these admittedly, very early polls. And you know, Kamala Harris, it was I June that article I just quoted, you know, making these overtures to the Bernie Sanders wing of the party is. Really and getting nowhere with them. And then thinking, wait a second. Maybe this isn't the way the wind is moving after all, and I should just run for president. As who? I am. I just think that's fascinated because it just to me it's all gets down to how much of the energy in the Democratic Party as its comes out in the media is just you know, shock and awe, and how much of it is actually the party in its voters moving one direction. I think that's a a really valid question. But I think that it's difficult. I think that that's an issue that that candidates in the voting public and we in journalism should be wrestling with on a regular basis. I also think that there's a certain sort of candidate that that will transcend the problems that this system, you know, that that that juxtaposition creates and and maybe in some ways it is a good. It's a good testing ground to see how the various candidates deal with such things. You have maybe maybe they'll bridge the two parts of the party or maybe they'll be just like Hillary Clinton and just win anyway. Yeah. And and then. And then the party will have to figure it out. You mean seal the nomination, Brian boys? And to go back to the the Biden Harris point, there is a big piece in appeasing politico today where Congressional Black caucus senior members are putting forward this idea that Biden Harris would be the dream ticket to be Donald Trump. So I mean, I this is this is silly season already though, don't you think I mean that that that actually would be an appealing ticket for the Democrats in a lot of ways. But this just feels like oh my God. We're this is a new dangerous phase of the of the media where we're already into dream ticket. Phase it is it is in an listen. I mean, the you can you can have great affection for both of these candidates, and I have some measure affection for both of them. But I mean as well as Biden is doing in the polls, as you know, intriguing is as the Harris candidacy has been I mean, both of these campaigns have been politically just sort of caught flatfooted at various points already. And I, you know, this feels more like a PR pushed in. Strategy are David list, dude, the notebook dump quickly topic number one. The most important news story in the world. Barack Obama's taking too long to write his book. This is from Edward Isaac devere over at the Atlantic Obama's memoir, which many people at that was going to come out and twenty nine hundred won't be published this year, according to a person familiar with the writing process, what do you make Bama taking some extra time to really, you know, iron out those transitions matures kicker chapter kickers go. Well, why listen this is this is this is what happens when you hire someone to write a book in the actually write the book, you know? I mean, if it's it. I mean, I remember when both oh when when both both both Clinton volumes came out, and you were just like, wait. They wrote like this person road eight hundred pages in the time between if you know, the publishing industry, those probably, you know, delivered nine months before the book hit the shelves meeting. Just they turn around so quickly often with almost always with the help of a some degree of ghost writing. And you know, I'm sure that that Obama is probably getting some some amount of help. But he's always been. Very proud, you know, author, and my guess is. That's what's holding up the process here. What do we make of the end of Edward Isaac, the tweet where he says, according to a person familiar with the writing process is that is that like a joke on the basketball source close to the process thing. It must serious. I got I hope so I really hope so loyal listener bent ks. More noted something David that. I also notice last week, which is a few times you've referred to the democrat primary democrat. Yeah. And party. Yeah. Instead of the instead of the democratic primary which sent a direct message about this. And I went I didn't I did actually demented. I meant to mention it. It might be the same person. What do you have to say for yourself? This is that's a hyper corrective, I believe I think it's important. It was locked into my head that people say this incorrectly. And I and I ended up doing it just like when people overuse, I when they should be saying me, I've I've I've ruined the way that my brain works in my mouth works by trying to be more, right? Than is necessary. David is not a right wing apparatchik. Could not tell from the rest of the podcast, I mentioned this earlier day. But Kamala Harris is not the only one rebutting his or her campaign. The AP reports that Betto Aurora is quote reintroducing his candidacy. It's time has gone viral and a Rourke will appear on Maddow, and the view V is not already to reintroduce his candidacy. So we are officially at Beto reboot. I just love this because it's it's such a great. These both pieces included. Lots of really interesting details about what the two candidates were. Thank you. But it's it's sort of a good way to get attention. Isn't it to say, I'm I'm ready to reboot my candidacy? I'm gonna go to the press and say LA staffers, Jj, boys. Let me let you in on my thinking here. Yeah. I mean, it it it it, you know. I mean, I'm sure there's some some advisers that would say chose weakness. But I think it also you could say chose him, you know, flexibility, and you're right. It does it does get attention. Now. It depends. I guess it remains to be seen how hungry for attention. So someone like better work will be. I mean, I think that appearing on motto is a good move. And at times, I wonder why you know these series. These top line candidates aren't spending more time on MSNBC, you know, at least on the primetime shows, but especially in the primary season, but you know, the view I mean, I guess we wonder if there's betting odds on whether or not Beto be standing on the standing on the table during his appearance there that I think that'll that'll tell us a lot about how hungry for attention. And that was part of the reboot that he had to stop standing on tables. I mean, he he better was weirdly shamed. In so many different ways. Upon getting into the primary. It is. That is just a just a just a weird wild story of someone getting hit with a ton of attention to that bombing out really quickly. The only other thing I have down. Here is the Trump calling Buddha. Judge Alfred Newman and. Which was won an incredibly dated reference. As yet judge was quick to capitalize on number two. I am genuinely interested. What what should the media do when that happens because there was a politico story going around about this? I think the interview where he gave it was political. And they're like three authors on it making fun of it. What do you do when Trump says something like that? How do you handle it? That's a great question. I have no idea. I I mean, do you had a response there's a back and forth. So that's the thing. But he just is it just buried in an interview. I mean, what politicos doing I think you could probably argue the politico doesn't really think it said important anyway, but it kinda comes down to do. We aggregate our own interview transcript or just leave it in a piece and let somebody else find it. That's one of the big it's one that's one of the, you know, the great discussions in modern media. Do we self aggregate? Yeah. It it's the politico is not exactly, you know. It's not a, you know, pop culture website that could that could put up a list ical about, you know, ten times offered he Newman entered politics or whatever. But, but but there does seem to be a little bit does seem to beg for a little bit of a explanation or backstory there, I want some some of those funny mad magazine headlines from our youth where we'll be like in Wikipedia blue cover, and it'd be like NYPD black. Socially, throwing up or something like that. I did find this funny for even tweeted this from the politico story, so they're writing about Trump in this this the offer Newman bit in quote, somebody anonymously listen to this Trump believes if you can encapsulate someone in a phrase or a nickname, you can own them a person who knows Trump said in a recent interview, low energy, Jeb little Marco that kinda shit really diminishes people and puts you in control of them. And that's what Trump is a genius for doing. Now, did we need to grant someone anonymity to say that Trump is trying to own someone or control them by giving them, a nickname? Did we not do we not know that? I mean, that's just like what? Now, it's really to me that is just really strange, right? Tie for David guesses. The terrible pun headliner. Book title now day, David. Let's go. All right. Come on. Do you? I had a couple of options. But should we just do cetera? John melinda's memoir. Oh my gosh. The difficulty here the difficulty here is that is that he's he's certainly done other memoir. He's written other books. Right. He has. I mean, I would assume that he that in the Howard Stern private parts heyday. When like everybody was churning out books. I assume that he had won it is it's hard to imagine. He hasn't. But I the way why why was Howard Stern's book not called the second coming. I guess he's done more than two moons. He's already done a second book. So the third believe this is I believe this is stuttering John's first book, but this is all I'll give you this. It could be the it is kind of like a generic stuttering John memoir title, if she wanted to if you really I mean for some reason, maybe I'm just stuck in the nineties. My brain Amelie goes to settling John's bathroom reader, which would be funny if you are familiar with a certain sort of publishing from the nineties. Yes, that's funny. How that the did? I stutter. Ooh. That's. Pretty good. It's not Ed. That's it's not at though dang. That's what I would add. You're right going for the one thing that people know about sitter, John, though, it is it is a speech related book, title fi talk. I don't know. I don't know. I I think I've gone as far as I can go the memoir title is easy for you to say. Oh, that's great. Pretty good. Right. Yeah. Yeah. I like that. He got some good advice. I'm very excited to see what cetering John to say. After a lifetime. You know, working in media. Maybe maybe young reporters that listen to the show can can get something valuable from that. Yeah. Had asked a question. So welter crooked on the red carpet. All right. That's the press box with this week. He's David shoemaker. I'm Brian Curtis. Evan the man we do do we do. We do. We think Jim Jim Cunningham at this part of the we do we thank Evan Campbell. What do you think the what's the proper? Thank you have cable for free hand. He's up killing bears feces dead. Chris I'll made it helps us with research more press box next week or lukewarm takes than David CO later.