Episode 77 debate night and the fall of Canadas old order
take. Hey Sandy Eh Nora. It's Monday night so weird for us to be recording on a Monday night but unfortunately there's a little brown outra right. I'm at and so we lost entire episode. But maybe I'll just have a conversation with Nora's audio file later and we'll recreate it if it still make sense it probably really won't but but there's a silver lining there is a silver lining and that silver lining is that we watch the debate tonight and so we get to record episode. That's all about the debate where we learned everything that all the parties are planning to do all their plans and there was like a really robust debate about all the different policies and issues. That are really facing people in this election. Yeah yeah the debate so this is going to be a debate episode but that was a joke. Yeah this is going to be a debate episode. But you don't I'll have to watch it actually. It's even perhaps better that you didn't because you didn't waste two hours of your life watching this debate but we did and we are going in to break it down for you. Talk about the big issues that they touched on and what they didn't touch on and before that I want to first of all show the folks that we met in Los Angeles this past week we got to go to podcast festival. We did the work. It podcast festival for women in podcasting thing and we met some pretty cool people so hello and we were not the only people who were canada-based there so hello and especially hello to the folks Matt Matt from north of the border. Yes and this past month a lot of folks been listening to the podcast. I have a feeling the election has to do with that. I hope that if you like Acre content you keep with it. You keep checking us out when there isn't necessarily an election going on and and share it with your friends. Maybe if you've got folks that have never really tuned into politics. Need to think about different things in different ways are to give you something to talk about with your friends. Definitely share the podcast with them. I WANNA shout out the folks who've given US money in the last couple of weeks it has been so awesome to get To get some of your funds. Because you're of course. Let us do this show so thank you so much to Monica Adam. Andre Vanda and Laurie from the past two weeks and of course everyone who's always ongoing wing who name. We don't necessarily see pop up every single month. We totally appreciate it. And I'm GonNa see you in a week. I miss you in a week league. Oh my God weekend when a senior next weekend because we're doing a live show that unfortunately you can't get tickets. It's too if you haven't already because somehow they're sold out somehow that popular. Can you believe I honestly honest to God. I can't so bizarre Have a bunch of friends who really thought they were going to be able to go and can't because they waited to the last minute just goes to show friends kind of friends or you but in any case totally fine because is it is a live show which means there will be a recording that you can listen to you afterwards if you were not able to get tickets so we will well either see you on Saturday. Or you'll hear what she missed Come the following Tuesday yeah and one final housekeeping note before we get into this super stellar episode. We were segmented by PODCAST playlist. CBC BBC's Podcast playlist this past week and so you may hurt us on CBC radio on Saturday a podcast playlist plays again in the week. And so if you're listening to CBC radio and you happen here. Sandy Nora talk politics they They picked up one of our clips from our first election episode. Where we were talking about the cost of living and so hopefully? Oh you do a chance to check that out and if you want of course the episode in its entirety you can check that out at Sandy Nora Dot Com. Sandy Nora. What what was your? What was your favorite moment? No is that the best way to set this up. I don't know if that's the best way to set this up. Maybe it is. I have a favorite moment. I can talk about my favorite. My favorite moment of the debate was the moment where Jagmeet saying turn to Andrew. Inertia turn to a maxine Bernie. I mean what's the difference really turns to Maxime Bernier and says that you do not deserve to be on the stage. Did you should not have a platform. I do not believe that you should be here when maxine vernay tried to do the thing that all right wing jerks tried to do when you're like I don't think that there should be fascism or racism or white supremacy here and then the the the alright or white supremacist jackasses but free speech free speech. Don't you believe in free speech. So maxine bring eggos Doug me. Don't you believe in free speech like or do you only believe in free speech when people agree with you and Jack means like listen. I got no problem saying that. You should be here like you should not be here. Your your opinions are dangerous. Dangerous for Canadians. They're terrible. You don't deserve this platform and you know what the world didn't explode. Nobody died it was the perfect thing to say. It's the exact type of thing that people should always say To White Supremacists to try to pretend this is like an issue of free speech instead of an issue of dignity eighty and decency and issue of like you know I only know white supremacists getting platforms and so take it from this debate and from Jagmeet Singh response to to this type of Baiting from the heinous right buck that. What is the way that people should be responding to tripe like that? He should not have been on that stage. So you know no no and we actually should mention that for folks folks who might not be aware so. This was a debate that was organized by a new federal commission that was set up by Justin Trudeau. And the idea behind his commission. Maybe we have to take this episode of the Liberal Schemes Because Sandy. Sandy your scheme radar is going to go off the charts so they set up. This federal commission to organize the debates and the a federal commission was the one that picked five moderators which some people liked i. I had criticisms of but you know it wasn't fatal and all of the networks had to basically join in on this debate and not have other debates. This is the only English language debate. And it's governed by commissioner and an Advisory Board Sandy. Do know who the Commissioner is I do I do that. Commissioner is and his name is David the Johnston and do you know how much money he made. When he was the president of the University of Waterloo? I do because we had a full on argument about it this weekend in La. When I I forgot about this because we must have talked about it at some point in twenty eleven or twenty twelve when it was happening but I must have forgotton Martin? I thought it was impossible. Nora says to me you know. He may remember that guy. He was the one who made a million over a million dollars as president at the University of Waterloo House. Nora Nora Nora. I know he was making the move but it wasn't over a million dollars that's nuts. Don't make no sense. And we argued over it and argue over it and then we went and we looked the archives of the Sunshine List and indeed. This motherfucker made over a million dollars as president of the University of Waterloo uh-huh. I'm I must have forgot about it because it just made my brain explode so much but it's just unfunny real before he was appointed Governor General. Of course yeah. Of course and while we're doing this research you also discover that he's still drawing a salary from the Waterloo. He is still drying a a salary from the University of Waterloo. What the fuck is going on? Yeah please explain. He's only you had a strong students. Union oh ooh that's true that's very true and so when you watch your tuition fees going up. No that people like David. Johnson are making tons of money off of your fees. And if you've ever wondered what university president actually does the the honest to God answer is literally fucking nothing that almost everyone who works in the university environment works harder than the president of the university for for like the like a Fart of the amount of money that that fucking guy made. So he's the amount but what. Okay so go ahead. So He's is the commissioner. There's also members of this group and I don't WanNA spend too much because it's such a fucking side of detail but it's actually really important. They're the ones to determining who actually gets gets to put on these debates and so on this board is fucking Craig. He'll burger what I didn't know that what. Yeah I I knew I knew you would notice. I'm so happy that you're going to get to react to this mealtime Rykiel yes the Executive Director of APN not an is the only person on this group that comes from media which is pretty interesting and we are considering that this is all about like the media that they yeah what okay and a Ptyon was shut out in having a moderator when the consortium decided who actually be able to moderate this debate and rather than offering a PTA a spot to host right one of the five Segments Day offered eap Tian to have a journalist. Hold a fucking microphone while someone asked a question no creative content no comment on on the air. Wow let's continue yes also on. This board is Megan. Megan Leslie who is a member of parliament for Halifax for the MVP. I'm pretty disappointed to see that. She has not resigned over some of the decisions that they made namely to fucking platform maxine game and the final person I want to highlight. Is John Manley. Some people might remember John Manley as being a member of the cabinet of like cut San Martin Martin at at the end of their their their terms but he is the head of the lobby Organisation for the Chief Executive Officer Organization of Canada. That my friends is why. Maximum Bernie got a fucking spot in the debates because there are three criteria that the commission set forward and and Bernie did not meet two of them God and yet he got his spot. This is damn mess. This is a mess so and he was a mess. It's a he was a mess. Yes that's the background of this. This debate so so what did how did bring you perform before we get to that. We even talked about what your favorite moment was. What was was your favorite moment? Oh Yeah my favorite moment was I had to out I I when no one asked bring it question because there's an open spot the leaders to all ask each other God if anybody had it would have been like automatic cancel. Come on totally totally. I think we actually tweeted his same meantime because I saw your and my second which is just goofy trio. Couldn't stop calling Jagmeet sheer so weird times to fully off the game. Aim tonight like I mean. He doesn't really avid game. He's generally I've never been impressed by Juno but I was like you know I felt like he was A special an impressive tonight but in any case let's talk let's go back and talk about bringing a burnt burnt burnt burnt Jane. We knew exactly what he was doing. Actually he knew that in getting this opportunity he may not You know like this was his his opportunity to say as much as possible whether he was supposed to be speaking. We're not about all of his shoes and to put his issues. WHO's in a way that seemed as least threatening as possible to people? He was trying to you know. Rationalize Shnell is some of his really racist anti immigrant then a phobic messaging with messaging. That was like you know we're Canadians. We're proud ought to be Canadians. And I'm just saying that you know I'm not I'm not trying to be racist or whatever I'm just I'm just being honest about you know. We need to be proud to be Canadian. Median and Blah Blah Blah like. He was trying to couch his really racist xenophobic rhetoric. In this idea of patriotism and and the idea that it's okay to be proud to be Canadian and why why aren't we allow to be proud but also he just did everything that he could to you interrupt as people as possible so that he could get as much of a platform as possible which is of course what he's going to do he isn't allowed in a lot of other spaces to speak because he's a ridiculous candidate and so he was going to use as much airtime as possible In this debate to further some of his really dangerous idea. Yeah and he he did so. He played at so cleverly that he was right up the gate dominating like anybody that likes one hundred eighty one that likes Bernie got a fucking boner watching this guy's performance since sorry for the fucking visual no and the moderators quite. Frankly were not promoted for it. They allowed him in the first half hour or so maybe even more he got so much airtime I would I would like I hope that somebody out there does like some sort of analysis on his airtime Justin Trudeau be because I would not be surprised if he got like Double Justin Trudeau's airtime tidily because because he just he just. He took every opportunity to speak that he could and he has nothing to lose right so all of the other candidates don't WanNa look like they're being pushy you're talking over. People Bernie has nothing to lose and the because the moderators weren't prepared to deal with that. And because you know then he relaxed or I stopped doing that after forty five minutes or whatever. It doesn't even matter because the most important time of that debate is the first half an hour. That's when the most people are watching because after it's like my God This is horrible. There's been no bathroom breaks socks right. Oh my God I missed a big chunk of. There's there's this so for people who follow me on twitter. I'm like tweeting about it and then I was was like wait. There's no commercials. There's literally no commercials I have to P P days allow for peak next time thank you. That's my request I David Johnston and Craig Keel Burger. My request is that he finally free those children and that they did not be seven to nine because seven to nine was like supper and bedtime it was literally the worst fucking possible time for me and it was a nightmare in my house to watch it so I was tweeting being while had two children crawling over me. Asking why Bernie and Blanchette were speaking such terrible French speaking English man. Okay so we talked about bringing. Let's just sheer shoot all right to left. Oh Yeah Yeah I love it. Let's talk about share. Would it what you think about sheer sheer has no oh rhythm like as a white guy. I like fears like if there's a spectrum of White Guy Rhythm he's for sure at the bottom of it like he was wooden he was awkward and he says he's got a couple of catch phrases that he says way too much like another. That's just not true. Now that's just a lie. Let's be honest. That kind of stuff in. It was kind of driving me a little bit like I was. I was really struggling to pay attention to what he was saying. He has the thinnest plot. Affirmative everybody on the stage and and I mean. He didn't lose the debate. I think that Justin Trudeau is the clear loser of the debate because he also has the most to lose uh yes one hundred percent but for me. What was most interesting was how the WHOA I was watching for? And this is a little little bit of insight. Basil for for Quebec's if you're wondering what's going on. In Quebec the the the Conservatives have been fighting for Quebec since the leadership race and Andrew Scheer. You might be surprised to know. This is not use any because I think we've probably talked about it but listeners may be surprised to know that sheer was the pick of Quebec conservatives during in the leadership race is French was good he was he was comfortable. He was personable and Bernie was kind of more the pick of people outside of the province. He didn't even win win his own seat for the leadership of the Conservative Party and so for for the last two years. She Has Been Building Building Building Building Quebec and tonight I think what we watched was. He lost a huge chunk of the ability of of of what will be his ability to win Quebec seats. There's a there's a french-language distinguish debate on Thursday. I suspect we're going to see even worse. Performance and e Francois Blanchet from the block totally did he walked in there and did everything that he needed to do. Due He'd he officiated the Conservatives in sheer look like a bumbling fool so that's what I was paying attention to a little bit niche. But I mean what else can you expect for conservatives my hi Alison share was that he didn't provide anything of substance. Did he everything that he said was like some sort of rhetoric and of course he was like really focused on Justin Trudeau. He didn't really focus on anyone else in the debate even in the times during the debate. which sh you know? I know. There's some criticism online about the format. But I do appreciate that. They got to talk to each other. Directly actually thought the format was pretty. Good myself myself. Yeah me too. Yeah I didn't love the moderators but I you know I thought the format was great. Like in his focus of to Joe like I thought he was being really honest. I suppose about like how much he doesn't like Trudeau or how much he doesn't appreciate like. It didn't come off as like some sort of rehearsed. First thing like Justin Trudeau did which we'll talk about later but didn't offer hearst. It came off like I fucking hate you and that was the first thing that was the first thing he sad like. The first thing he said in the debate you know was with some sort of attack on Justin Trudeau. It was about black face. In fact the person who talked about identity politics the most during this debate was Andrea Sherr which was fucking hilarious. Nothing of substance. NOPE policy. Nothing whatsoever all he did was attack all night and he had like these zingers. Were clearly placed Zingers Even though he was like honest about is like dislike of Trudeau. Oh most of what what what gave him the ability to turn to that more less Contrived Roderic was really contrived rhetoric. It was really bizarre approach where I suppose but there are hoping to do is to clip the debate and just have a whole bunch of clips of Andrew Scheer like trying to mark almost in a funny way chew? It was weird super weird. Yeah you're totally right. You're totally right like they. They think that they're going to win by playing extremely safe and their platform is pretty pretty pretty thin and you know Trudeau said during the debate that the Conservatives are just trying to win the same way that Doug Ford Winer Jason Kenney one with very very little details on their platform. And that's true. I think that you know. Journalists have not called all that out at all like the focus has been so much on Trudeau that the lack of policy in the end none of the policies that exist the bizarre promises. I mean yesterday's yesterday's big announcement. You probably missed it because it was so ridiculous or maybe it was even today because my days are now running into each other. Is that the conservatives want to create a fucking being museum dedicated to cops. I'm sorry what I mean like. Who are they running for fucking school like Who who cops did they did? They like what the fuck that is a federal election. Promise yes it's not right and so this so. This is where this is where Canadians are really stuck between such shitty the options that you know even people who are not ever going to consider voting conservative they benefit when the Conservatives are actually offering fucking platform in a vision because then you have an actual debate of ideas and instead we have sheer saying basically nothing throwing random shit like how great they will be reconciliation and how you can never sign the UN Declaration on the rights of indigenous people. Because it'll get in the way of of business I mean. He said that in the debate in the indigenous issues she's section and and and no one's going to focus on that I am not in the mainstream The headline that I saw was just that sheer called Trudeau. Oh a fraud and and so one of the things that I think the shears performance introduce performance really demonstrate is that we're really. We're witnessing the fall of the race ace and and we. We were witnessing that across everywhere. We saw that in Quebec in the last election last year and that is really what is happening is these parties are fucking spiraling rolling into the past. And it's like both amazing and super awkward to watch okay true. Let's skip over Trudeau and with him. Because I know we ask people we offer audience. But you folks want to hear an episode on the debate or an episode on Talking Liberals and I think that if we end it through we can shit talk larose for the rest of the episode. Okay totally so blanchette. So I was really impressive blanchette tonight I really. Yeah Yeah I thought funny was better. I mean I'm comparing him to shield us up right so I thought he was better than she'll do set. Who's like a very good politician? I'm looking forward to hearing him in French. I did not catch the Taos. David French debates. I'm not sure how that's GONNA come across. But the like the block has been in free-fall for many years and and like it was anyone's guess if they're even gonNA survive their last leadership issue with Martin Wa who was at the head of the block. So yeah I thought he did really well. I mean all he's supposed to do is defend interest and that's what he did. I mean interest in the way that they understand them and and I think that his goal was to take votes away from the Conservatives which he very successfully did while very clearly clearly staking out that traditional block support that might also overlap with the support of folks who probably lived in the regions. Definitely definitely don't live in downtown Montreal or writings in Quebec City. Were of which there are many that are currently held by by conservatives honestly. I felt that he was highly awkward. I thought that there were times debate that he was like arguing. Things that have been said like ten minutes earlier and it was like come on like catch up like keep keep up with us but on like I thought he was really awkward. Like I didn't really think that okay. I'll say that I appreciated that. He didn't have that really like unbelievable. Polish that some politicians have where. It's so clear that they rehearse everything like I really did feel oh like. He was considering the questions as they came and giving his honest opinion. And he didn't feel like a rehearsed mannequin Like like the fucking Trudeau and sheer really felt like rehearsed mannequins. And I appreciated that but I honestly I. That's how I felt about him. I mean I am someone that has to navigate another language all the time and that other language being his first language so I also off on my heart for the people that are struggling. Oh totally no no. I'm I'm sure that that might have something to do with it. And hopefully like during the french-language debate we get a better sense Of Him but I just Yeah the the only the only policy all highly that I thought was pretty interesting was his response to equalization where they want to replace the equalization formula to be a formula that that privileges punishes provinces based on pollution. I I was like fuck you BERTA. That sounds awesome. Yeah that was That was unexpected. Yeah I like an actual policy. You know what I mean that could have been debated but alas the row last interested Alaska so take a listen option debate. I'm GONNA live. I'm GONNA live tweet the French debate and In the one other thing that folks might be interested to know is that there's a big. They kept on talking about the line in Quebec that the block supports the block also supports support really terrible road infrastructure that super popular downtown city It's it's been ripped apart by scientists Including my partner so I'm really excited to see if they change If they if they do an about face on the gas line which is basically the same as L. L. G. in northern BC which the MVP unfortunately support is that a segue or maybe should do the Greens. I think the Greens are. I laughed. Come on because the block I mean the block is kind of like outside of the the political spectrum in some ways yet but I think they fit in the center. They do that right now. They do center. Yeah that's very good. Elizabeth Breath may I have a bias against Elizabeth me because I find her insufferable and I find her debate styles be very annoying. So it's very hard for me to listen to her with like the clearest fairest possible mind. Okay okay you know what I thought. She had some really great moments especially at the beginning where she was like okay. Can we focus on some reality here. She was really trying to pull some of the bullshit that Trudeau. She would was interesting over all the debate. Like just a comment overall is that Trudeau and share. We're trying to do what they normally do in a debate. But Elizabeth May and Jagmeet Singh. We're we're not really allowing that to happen. They they kept trying to pull them back. It was Elizabeth. May who started this at the beginning of the debate. Where you know? They started to argue with one. Another talk over one another or whatever about some bullshit about how. They're the worst at this that or the other and she pulled them back in those those those moments were really useful to someone who's watching really exasperated at the state. Our voting really embarrassing politicians so good on Elizabeth may for that but B but she also had some weird contrived moments that were like. What are you doing? He can just so confused out some of the strategy there because it. I don't know if they're getting some sort of prep where it's like. Oh look you can really appeal to an audience watching at home. If you say that you recognize somebody on screen or oh yeah That folks fucking not. It's just too much so weird. I just thought that she had a lot of like really contrived moments too and out. No I don't know what did you think. Yes so I I. I really had a hard time with how every ten seconds I think. It's a way for her to ease. He's into a question. She says. Something Super Fee. That is useless to listen to you. And then she will sometimes then pivot to something. That's interesting because she was one of the few that had policy that was is talking about policy and and the the real problem with the Greens is they have not figured it away to properly communicate why their plan is better better than the MVP in their minds and so it just sounds like sniping And it's the same actually the MVP has not really done this. Hasn't been able to do the same either. And some of the two parties argue with each other on the environment I honest to God. I'm like what the fuck differences is it like. Do I have to look into their plans myself and do the analysis myself because it it. It's all very technical and And neither is going to save us from catastrophic climate change and so I kind of wish that the that the Greens would have thought more strategically about what their role really should be in general and rather than like any time that she spent going after the end. Ep should have been spent really really digging into the other into the conservatives into the Liberals I I know that the Greens and MVP are like really fighting each other and a lot of writings. But but that's not going to be where you're not gonNA win one of those writings or lose one of those writings on this debate. She really wants to be a person that brings people together then she probably should have. I've done a better job Piercing through how the liberals have have made such a mess of the climate file. I also cannot stand. How fucking saying like touchy feeling and and loving everybody she is and how lake? Will you participate in our You know our non-political political fucking cross partisan bullshit. It's like who cares the I know what a waste of a question. We were wasted questions. He's like that. It's so ridiculous. Yeah no you're totally right about that. Yeah she she also. She was very thin on all of their other policy like on the environment stuff. She's very strong. She's very specific acidic but she was very thin on the other. Policies didn't even talk about the universal basic income which is one of my biggest pulse criticisms of them and And I don't know if you've got this but she said something like we're gonNA attack cash and tuition and just for folks at home to mission means education. Mike tuition means learning tuition fees. It's probably what she was talking about. Don't ban tuition. That would be bad for everybody. Super Bad So anyway she I think she probably had a good night. I would put her on a seven on a scale of one to ten But I was still annoyed having thing to listen to her. Yeah I think she had a good night. My her most annoying moment for me was when she said Mr Scherr. You'RE NOT GONNA win. It's the we're debating here is whether it's going to be a liberal justice you let majority or Justin Trudeau led. That was weird and that was so strange that she would do something like that. Because of course as we know if it truly is a minority government and some combination of the Greens or the end. EP hold the balance of power. They could of course choose a leader that is not Justin Trudeau if they wanted to and I think that it's really weird for her to put out that type of messaging that it's going to be Justin Trudeau no matter what because for the audience. Who's listening you know I? You know I just think it's really demotivating demobilizing to do something like that. Because obviously it doesn't have to be that way totally and also like like depending on how many seats the block get and how many seats the EPA and the Greens are going to pick up some seats. I mean this. This is a really exciting election for the perspective of anything can happen. So being like fuck you sheer. You'RE NOT GONNA win. He's a bit of a weird strategic. Move Yeah totally very strange K.. and Ep what a great night for Sing Holy Holy Shit he did so well yeah. I'm I'm really impressed. I'm on at so well. I'm not well I thought he was like where I thought thought he did very well was he was comfortable. He was having fun. He was thinking on his feet and when he was thinking on his feet his answers. Really good I mean there was a question I think that Bernie asked him and maybe actually you even mentioned it already or maybe I'm thinking something else but there was a moment where he Really turned the tables on the way the question Aston in. It's such an excellent way. That was like he is clear minded and and doing really really well yeah he he was like a real person person which was like more than any on the stage I I thought that his answers felt really sincere but more than that he kept turning thing everything back to policy every opportunity that he got. And that's what we need. We need a debate. That's on actual issues and besides Elizabeth me and meet saying nobody. There seemed interested in talking about actual issues and I could have benefited from debate between just may doug meets saying that I could. It really is and what the difference was between climate policies. Honestly totally. He was the person who was the most interested in talking about issues issues and in responding in a way that felt really real. Like you know when when asked about you know it was. It's just so strange that he was the person who is I asked about Like immigration or diversity and then everybody else got to respond to him in particular but he did so well Talking back to them I just I thought he did really well. I was impressed yet. The only where the only place where I was less impressed and it kind of is more better overall campaign because this is not unique to the debates is how how he responds to questions about cost of living the end. EP should own cost of living. They should be able to point out all of the policies that they want to implement went to really show how they're going to reduce the cost of living for average people and unfortunately like the he spends. I think too much time talking about where they're going to get get the money it's a it's an offensive. Move to make sure that people are like. Well how are you GonNa get the money right dogma. Getting money from the rich is really important. But he mentioned a lot tonight and I I would've liked to have heard more about those costs reducing measures for families. He didn't mention post secondary education at all The payers really weird actually. It was really surprised that he did not mention secondary education at all and I hope that that trend doesn't continue like come on basic well unless plus it's like a sign that they're about to release an interesting policy on higher education because their policy so far has been panned and they might with a bit of confidence and wind in their sails. Maybe they're ready to fucking promise something more so that would be my hopeful interpretation. But you know they didn't talk about home care they didn't really talk about Health health with care beyond Pharma care so lake like the Canada health transfer. What what are they going to do with They did mention their free public transit policy so it was just it was just a really missed opportunity opportunity. I thought but I mean these were not fatal These were not fatal errors. I don't think I think that his authenticity pushed through the lack of Of comment on some of their more specific promises to reduce the cost of living. Okay so now. Let's go to who the person who arguably should perform the best given that. He's the incumbent. He's done this before. This is his. We'll house Justin Trudeau. Yup what a guy. What a failed night for him I I actually thought he was going to snap at some point of tate? I thought that he was going to snap at Elizabeth May at some point. There was a point where they were going back and forth and I was like. Oh here he comes. Here's angry show. Here's the Guy Salina's Caesar's van has been telling us about. This is the person that Jodi Wilson has been telling us about but he got it under control but he got a little. I thought he was going to lose it on her. Yeah I really did he. He did not seem focused. He did not seem he was definitely not at. He's I mean like I don't know if it was the stress of the night of the stress of the campaign But like he was not watch on his game a fool disaster is but I say he he did not have a lot of airtime which is bizarre there. There are these moments built into the debate where anyone could respond to anyone. And if you've watched any election debates before you know that generally the entire hire debate is that like you can really truly interrupt anyone if you really want to. You might seem like a little bit of addict that you can do a half more time. which is what maxine? Brignone did that. We were referring to earlier. Justin Trudeau neither did that like interrupting at the moment where he was. He's technically not allowed. Even though the the moderators were being super lax about it. Nor did he do it at the moments where he could where it was like open open season on everyone one part of the debate and that happened at least four or five times and he did not make opportunity of that so there were large moments where you didn't hear from judo for really large periods of time which was really really bizarre. It was as though he was unprepared. Unprepared to debate policy and then he actually screwed up debating policy like he accused meet sing of having the MVP the DP having a policy to like build a refinery in Alberta and how that was bad for us as a climate platform and Jimmy was like. That's I I don't know where you got that from. That's just not part of our platform like I don't know what you're talking about. And then and then Trudeau repeat it. It it was it was like in Jug. Meet things things like. I don't know what you're talking about is very very bizarre and watching it. You know. I'm like I'm on twitter. I'm trying to figure this out myself. And it looks like he was either referring to and I'll BERTA and EP policy or initiative or Green Party policy or initiative which is just so bizarre to fuck that it up in the middle not even the middle at the end of a debate. Like come on do what's going on with you. Yeah he easily could have Taken taken apart the conservatives Promise on foreign affairs on on funding on international funding. He easily could have managed a lot of the other Things that came up in the debate and he instead he referenced. The Stephen Harper Way too many times. It's like guy needs time. I mean he is. He still alive like does that matter anymore. which was so bizarre because also both Elizabeth may end up being a very good job of saying you are continuing Harpers Policies like you have not undone and Harper's policies both of them made that very clear threat the night in their direct conversations with Trudeau and he did nothing like he had no response response exactly and and it's like the the veneers falling. We are seeing that shine disappear as he's being challenged more and more on his record you know I just finished reading the Trudeau formula by Martin lukacs and it goes through a lot of these issues that Trudeau promised big things that have not it delivered and And I think you know average people see it. Obviously everything from the reconciliation agenda to their climate change agenda to to electoral reform to the Saudi arms deal to the immigration and refugee treatment and then lies around how retreating people at the border. I mean people can see through this and you just feel that the campaign knows that it might be fucked which I think that the should be fucked. I think one hundred it. They deserve to be fucked. They don't exactly they're offering not enough. They're not taking any responsibility for the last four years and instead what we've been left with with our these skinny fucking piece of shit legislation like the changes to the Elections Act that has thrown third party spending totally until like confusion zone. This federal debates commission mission a whole bunch of of policies like giving oversight to Canada Border Services Agency which was a promise that they made. They couldn't even get that legislation passed because Oh why right Katrina KUSC Trudeau kicked out of his caucus in the Senate and so the Senate went from a body that was shitty but at least late followed party lines of what was elected to now being a bunch of the independence being like not all we want to take fucking six years to legislation. It's like Trudeau. You fucking did this to yourself. Congratulations you should have abolish the Senate which wasn't any promise which is weird that they're not talking about that actually in this election but anyway Also his climate change comments were. We're just so like dastardly like you can't you can't the type of shit that you put on on Twitter Trudeau like where you're like go. We band plastics dries. You can't say that in a debate standing next to Elizabeth May and think that that's going to fly but you can't do that. How how could you possibly think that the Zinger of like what he thought was going to be a singer when he'd like turned? Elizabeth Maine said. Climate targets are on a plan. I've got a plan. That's why we bend plastics draws like. What dude targets are in fact part of a plan clearly like usually when you come up with a plan like probably your campaign plan you have targets that you WANNA meet? That is totally plan. Getting rid of straws is absolutely auto plan. That makes no sense. That's not GONNA do anything to food. And it was just so it was just like such a bald example of how the Liberals have operated under Justin Trudeau for the last four years just like take nothingness pure nothingness directed at us over and over again and so all of those moments between him and sheer where sheer at least came. came out like looking like he was being honest and be like. I hate you. Justin Trudeau Justin Trudeau being like well. You're worse than me. Because and then sheer saying while you're worse than me because and you know saying well you're more racist. And she was saying well. You're more misogynist and then Justin saying you're more misogyny it was just so like who wants like what the fuck like. I did not tune in here to see you guys. Talk about how y'all suck more than the other like. It was really really fucking stupid. Yeah and he did a very good job to play like average Canadian guy. Being like Osborne guys Stop that yeah. Yeah yeah totally. So one of the cues that I picked up on Was the debate around the bill. Twenty one which is Quebec's religious symbols bill religious symbols ban legislation and. I thought that it was really interesting. The liberals it's have totally changed the rhetoric on this so we have a situation Quebec. Where like the block in the Liberals are never competing against each other? Those are two very separate. Britt voting blocks the block competes with the Conservatives they compete with the MVP the Liberals Compete with the MVP. So you can drive a van diagram view really want to visualize the provincial. Oh kind of climate in Quebec and then through the Greens in there somewhere fucking competing with all of them really and so tonight was the first time that Trudeau really laid into the MVP. For not promising to challenge Bill twenty-one in court and made some overture to federalism When challenging Blanchette in fact? I don't know if you've noticed. But I felt like fucking Pierre Trudeau himself was GONNA jump out of his fucking skin he he was like really turned on my talking about federalism at the end of the debate. And this says to me that the liberals are in panic mode because like debating whether or not. You should challenge bill. twenty-one in court I fully think the MVP made the right decision by saying they will not challenge it because the bill will has the notwithstanding clause written into it and so a challenge is going to go to symptom court. It's going to be ruled unconstitutional. And they're going to go and we've already declared section thirty three three. So what the fuck was that court challenge for. It would be a waste of time a waste of money. There's other ways need to be used to fight this legislation. We can have a conversation about that later but but I think that the MVP is is got it right on this one but the liberals knowing that it's such an unpopular piece of legislation in Montreal specifically that they need need to take away any opportunity that that the MVP might have to win seats in downtown Montreal in Montreal in general and and so. I think that they've decided like federalism. Federal isn't that's how we're going to do it and we're GONNA do it by challenging racists law because it's the right thing to do even if it's like I mean true has no problem challenging fucking legal decisions where he's in the wrong like for example. The Human Rights Tribunal that says that they're under-funding indigenous child welfare for example right. So that's a really interesting pivot to me and I suspect we're going to see that more and more as they're realizing that the end EP is going to rise in the polls and and and playing on Bill Twenty One specifically for outside outside of Quebec I think is going to be one of their main campaign strategies I think you're right I I I don't necessarily agree with you on the MVP positions. Perhaps we should talk about that at the next And our next episode. But I do think what's really interesting is the way that People from marginalized communities indigenous communities People of Color are being used is at within the rhetoric rider of all the parties And I'm not happy about it. I'm not happy about it. I don't think it's been you know besides the MVP. I think that especially the Conservatives really interestingly are using political are using people's identities Hannity's As a as proxies for trying to shame Some of the other leaders rather than actually talking about issues That that should be addressed and one final thing that I want to know and I know this is already a longer episodes so I just did you also think it was weird that all of the white leaders like congratulated Jagmeet on on the way that he dealt with racism throughout the campaign with the exception of did Bush. I I can't remember. He may have. I can't remember now They were all like congratulations on the way that you've dealt with that racism you so Justin Trudeau actually. We called them eloquent. You're so eloquent on racism. Did you catch that was it was like they may have walked over to the right is like would I mean it was so tear it was just so it just it was very lucky. Yeah there's there's a special kind I mean. Maybe maybe there's a German word for this. Because the Germans have such great words for like Trudeau congratulating him on converting racism. Having been the guy wearing being blocked face you very very awkward and so we've gone over time but I think it's important Horton that we definitely spent some time shit talking the liberals more I mean we already have. Oh Yeah I okay. Let's do it you know I'm always for I. I think I think that's what people wanna hear. And we can follow up some of the themes for from this next week but you know. Let's maybe take five minutes. What what do you want to say to people who are still considering voting liberal who would call themselves progressive look especially after performance tonight like I? I just don't understand how you could justify to yourself That it's okay to vote for Justin to does party. Not This is a party That is taking a decision of a human rights tribunal to to support People who've been harmed through terrible policies of can't genocidal policies of Canada in the way that it treats indigenous children. They're they're appealing that that decision despite all of their rhetoric on supporting and engaging with indigenous and first nations community like communities like nation to nation relationships chips bullshit This is a party. That has a terrible terrible track record on dealing with issues that are really at the heart of what some of the poorest the most marginalized people who live in this country go through. This is a party that has promised again and again things like Pharma care. Child Care Even their big marquee promise from the last election action which was to end first past the post their promises on on the climate crisis. None of these things have come to fruition and yet they come to debate and they expect your vote based on the fact that this was their entire strategy that guy sheer is worse. How could you continue to support people who believe that they deserve? Move your vote. Because they're not as bad and quite frankly they kind of are because they continue all of the policies of the previous conservative government's. That's right that they're not as bad and continue these really heinous policies that super harm people. I just don't understand and you know like there are people in this debate. The there are people in this election. That are actually offering real solutions. That haven't been given even an opportunity before that for you. Know for us to see what their record could be like. And I'm like fuck. Why would we want that guy again again? Why would we want sheer? Why would we want Trudeau? I don't know it makes more sense when there is a viable able alternative being offered to vote for that viable alternative. Yeah one hundred. I'm be voting for Andrew when I go to Toronto on Saturday. Yeah Yeah. Andrew cash has got my vote vote early. Yes I'm GonNa vote early Nice Nice. Yeah I think that it as I said earlier that we are in such a pivotal moment and if you are a progressive person that you understand that things are getting worse and they are going going to continue to get worse unless something major happens at the political level then you cannot vote liberal in good conscience. It's impossible and as things get worse. Like don't let people scare you into thinking that the Conservatives are just GonNa win there are people that go before between the Conservatives and the Liberals and as people that go between the Liberals and the other parties whether the sandy peer the Greens. And this is if if there's ever been an election shen where you're like you know what I won't vote strategically GonNa vote at a fear. I'm actually GonNa vote for policies that I that I like Or my local candidate who I like. Blake fucking do it. Because the liberals they're like an abusive boyfriend who just doesn't want you to realize how fucking bad it has been any like reading the newspapers. WHOA that guy killed his girlfriend? Aren't you lucky that I didn't kill like it's like these are all shades of all of Shit. They're all shades of shit that can easily be fixed. If the Liberals are confronted by a Popular Movement that rejects they're fucking form of politics and quite frankly there are communities in this country country or who live on this land who cannot like who who can't afford another liberal government can't afford another liberal government for some of these policies like for fuck sake there. There is a climate crisis that has all of our lives in the balance. It's and we can't afford another government that's going to say one thing and do a totally different thing. We know what they're going to do to have a long record of doing it and let's not forget to sort elections ago that the liberals tell you they're the only option but the MVP was the official opposition in in this country. Like there isn't just a only two options and like let's be clear that's because Quebec doesn't give a fuck about what everybody tells them about. What the options czar so? It'd be really nice. The rest of Canada would also be like you know what we're just gonNa vote for what policies were actually really interested in. We're not gonNA care what people tell us about how there's only two options there aren't only two options. IRT multiple ways that this could turn out and this is one of the best elections for us to actually make that happen It took it was a man.