Hall of Fame quarterback Dan Fouts and NFL reporter Tim Rohan of The MMQB.
Welcome to the Peter King podcasts where I bring you into my world, it's a world of professional football and the few other things about life this week. Dan Fouts pro football hall of fame quarterback and currently CBS color. Commentator also Tim row him. He's got a great new podcast series on cadence, thirteen, and for Sports Illustrated based on the life and death of Steve McNair. But I, I want to get a little human here. I wanna tell you a little story. You may have heard the podcast a month or so ago when I had Justin Tucker, the kicker, the Baltimore Ravens, you probably learned a little bit about him. One of the funniest things he said this most accurate kicker in NFL history. He said, oh, hang on. I don't wanna split my. Infinitives. And when I heard that I said, now this is a different cat. Any is, and I wrote about this a little bit my football morning in America column this week at NBC sports dot com. But I found Justin Tucker after one of the most trying moments of his kicking career, I found his behavior to be so interesting and so compelling and so good and such a lesson in this for all of us, no matter what we do in life that I wanted to pass it on to you. So as many of you know, Justin, Tucker, Baltimore Ravens, the most efficient field goal kicker. The most accurate field goal kicker in the history of the National Football League has been around for ninety nine seasons and no one other than just in Tucker, has made ninety percent of his field. Goals are better. So his accuracy also extends to extra points and with the extra points you go back to when Justin Tucker was a kicker in high school in Austin, Texas at Westlake high, which is all. Also drew Brees alma mater when he was a senior in high school back in two thousand seven. He never missed an extra point in highschool made forty forty when he then went to the university of Texas and booted for four years, he never missed an extra point, seventy one out of seventy one and as the sun set on the stadium. Mt. Bank stadium in Baltimore on Sunday. Something bizarre happened after this kicker had made two hundred fifty six consecutive extra points as an NFL kick, never missed one. So here's a guy who had not missed an extra point since he was sixteen years old. As I said in my column, just imagine the last time, Justin Tucker, missed an extra point. He wasn't shaving yet. So. Obviously, you know where this story is going twenty four, twenty three saints clock running out this is it. This is the last chance to tie the game to send it to overtime and Justin Tucker, booted the ball outside the right upright and miss the extra point, ravens lose twenty four, twenty three to the New Orleans Saints. It looked to me. I've watched on replay, twenty five times like a gust of wind took it right, but afterwards, Justin Tucker didn't want to make any excuses. He didn't wanna hear about any excuses. He missed it. It's his job to make it. And he approached the PR director of the Baltimore Ravens after the game. And he said, I like to go to the podium now understand that the coach and the quarterback and maybe one other player. One other star might go to the podium for the large press conferences after the ravens games kicker, does. Go to the podium, but he wanted to go to the podium because he knew a lot of people would wanna talk to them. And a lot of people wanna hear his thoughts and he said, I need to face the music. He went to the podium talk for about thirteen minutes and basically said at one point during his his talk to the to the writers, you know, I would want my son to know that you know when everything doesn't go right for you in life, you gotta face the music and you have to stand up and admit when you made a mistake. And that's really my lesson for the week. I just found that so accountable, so well done. So perfectly stated by him. And I hope you might go back and listen to my conversation with Tucker was very interesting. Talked about having a grandfather said, hey, just just make the damn kick. Nobody cares about your, you know what the weather is, what anything, and that's the way he's lived his career in the NFL. Just make the damn kick. And I just thought you'd like to hear that story about Justin Tucker, the kicker for the Baltimore Ravens. And now my conversation with Dan Fouts. Back on the Peter King podcast. So happy to be joined by Dan Fouts the pro football hall of fame quarterback and also a couple of other things about Dan. He's one of the forty eight hall of fame voters for the pro football hall of fame. We might sneak in question or two about that. We might sneak in question or two about the state of modern football and Dan Fouts obviously is you see him every Sunday Zeh CBS TV analyst and also Dan, I, I want everyone to know that Dan Fouts is incredibly bullish about his home state of Oregon. My family, my extended family, went out of -cation to a place near Portland out in wine country last year, and and Dan and his wife came in, met us had a glass of wine with us and he's like Joe chamber of commerce for the state of Oregon. He wants everybody to love it, and he did a very good job because I can tell you the king family on their first trip is a as a family as a tribe to Oregon. We all left that we said, man when we come back. So Dan, thanks for that, and thanks for joining me. Well, it's always good to be in the company of the king. Well, that's cool. So Dan, let's start with current events. You did the bears in patriots on Sunday, and I'm curious as somebody who is made his living, I throwing a football and now analyzing people who play football. I'm wondering what, if anything, does the patriots rain remind you of? Have you seen anything like it and what when you watch them and when you watch them this weekend? Dispatch yet. Another young contender to the throne, the Chicago Bears. What do you think when you watch them? You know, I continue to be amazed at their consistency, but so much of it has to do with with Bella check and Brady, they're the ones that have been here throughout. They're the ones that make it work, and it's a perfect combination as Bill is, you know, such a defensive guru and Tom is seen it all and done at all. So you just know that regardless of what the score is that the patriots are gonna find a way. And yesterday the way they found it was through special teams. It didn't have gronkowski. They lost Sony Michelle early in the ballgame to knee injury, but they had two touchdowns on special teams. So you know, what do you may be able to stop them sometimes, but they'll always seem to find a way you know what impressed me about that game yesterday is that so Cordeiro Patterson hands. The bears at touchdown. And he gets it back l. e. so I'm not necessarily patting him on the bag, but at least he got back to ground zero. He expects to return every kickoff the distance, and that's the way he runs. There's no hesitation in the way he hits the whole. It's two hundred twenty five pounds. So he's going to run through some aren't arm tackles as he did on that. Ninety five yard return for a touchdown. So he's a big guy with tremendous speed, and he's a very courageous, you know the phone, but was he had the bond is arm. It wasn't as if he was careless with it. It was just a good hit by quick count ski that knocked it out. So. What I was when I was going to harp on a bit is Dante Hightower, you know, here's the guy who may be as the most prominent single player on their defense. I'd say him in him endeavour mccourty. And here he is rushing from the middle of the punt blocked team. And obviously, if you play for a Bella chick, it's like playing for parcels. He would always have his starters play play in the kicking game, unless you're quarterback and I wonder when you look at that and you look at, he's not just he's not just, you know, burrowing his head in there and making it look like he's trying. He is trying like, heck to make a play like it was any other play that to me the way Bella chick has gotten his guys, you know, to play special teams in the play them at a high level over the years, I think is also a tribute to him. No question. It's about preparation and what the patriots saw is a weak link in the front protection unit of the bears Brown Necker got rolled up. Yeah, it was almost as if he wasn't even there. I had so much power to just roll him right back past the personal protector and right to the foot of the putter where any blocked ball basically with his face mask. That's how dominant that one play was by Hightower. And again, that was just seeing where the weak link is on that line and taking advantage of it. What's been your interaction over the years with Tom Brady would've what have your conversations been like with him and what have you learned about Brady over the years and or recently from talking to him. I don't know if you know that you're not. But when I was the sports director and sports anchor KPI x. in San Francisco for a couple of years, I, it was assigned to do a story on the top high school prospects in the bay area. And one of them was a kid named Tom Brady from Sarah high school. So I interviewed Tom and it's on. It's on the internet if you wanna check it out. The funny thing is I asked him, I pretended I, you know, Tom, I'm a college scout. Tell me about you. What is this God and report on you? And he says, well, I'm told I have a strong arm. I'm fairly accurate, but I need to work on my speed. What is changed. Strong arm and slow. But you know, he went to Michigan and at a, you know, a tough time. They're finally won the job there from drew Henson. So I go way back with Tom obviously, and it's a delight to be with him on these production meetings. I, I find him to be very candid and and just, you know, he first of all, he's at San Francisco giant fan. And so am I because that's where I grew up and we're for the Red Sox obviously to beat the dodgers. That's very good. You're in my tribe. What? What see, what do you sit? I take it. You were with them on Saturday in Chicago. Is that correct? Oh, yeah. And so what's what's his mindset right Now? Dan, do you think about playing this game? Every time he speaks about it, it's there's no finite and there's no finite end to him that it almost seems like it's certainly not an unlimited horizon, but he the sun's not setting on the guy right now. What what do you sense from talking to him? Exactly that. He's the same now is it was ten years ago, basically has more jewelry and a lot more money now, but he's still basically the same, Tom Brady, and it's interesting the way Brady and the patriots approach the season. It's almost as if they have four seasons you, you have the preseason and then you have the first couple of weeks of the season, and then you get towards the end of the season November, you know, thanksgiving. And that's like the third season, of course, by that time, they're in the playoffs and that's their fourth season. So in talking to him on Saturday, he said that, you know, although they now one four games in a row that they're still getting their, you know, their see likes and finding a way to to get to that next season and continue to improve. As a guy who played the game for a long time. I think you played fifteen years of, I'm not mistaken. What? What sort of respect or I don't know exactly what word to use. I mean, this is basically Tom Brady's eighteenth full season as an NFL quarterback and in his seventeenth. He he won the MVP. So I'm just curious when you look at him, what do you see in what makes him a guy who can keep doing this year after year? Smart. His mart in in every way has to do with football. He knows how to condition themselves during the season and in the offseason he knows the patriot offense inside and out is relationship with Gordon. Josh mcdaniels is is one that were sure that they, they finish each other's Senate sentences at times any enjoys the game enjoys the, the competition enjoys. The challenge enjoys his teammates and the results. Are this an amazing, you know career at forty one years old. Does he ever talk to you or has he ever over the years talk to you about sort of the inner game of of playing quarterback and have you ever had because I'm sure that he can sit down and have an interesting conversation with iron eagle, your partner, but you've been in the arena you're you've, you've gotta bust in canton. So over the years, do you find yourself ever him ever kind of probing you about the game. Once in a while, usually he's probing me for information about the opponent. But you know there is, you know, the the empathy that goes along with knowing what the positions all about, and and the pressures and all that goes with it. But he is is remarkable. And as I said, he's smart. He knows he knows everything seems like, doesn't it? Yeah, he really does. He's good at that. Can I tell you about my new favorite thing at home? I mean, it's not even close to my new Sonos. Beam, Sonos beam is the smart compact sound bar for my TV and the newest addition to my home sound system. It plays everything. I love so much to enjoy Sono supports over one hundred streaming services, and I can use airplay to enjoy music and my favorite shows for my iphone or ipad. And let me tell you I've gotten into podcast recently and there's always a podcast going off in my head. I want them around me at all times. I learned so much from both news podcasts. I love the true crime podcasts and so- Sonos beam allows me to listen to something not in headphones necessarily, but listen to something in one room in the house when something else NPR music might be on in another room in the house. Very, very cool. Now, not only does it have the all the streaming I need, but windy here the sound quality. It's brilliant using my being fills my living room with such great sound other rooms to I can enjoy detailed stereo separation for music plus crystal-clear dialogue for TV and movies, and I can't believe how easy it is to set up. There's no crazy wiring. Beam connects to your TV with just one chord it syncs with your remote, no matter what kind of remote you have even better is that the Sono at makes it so easy to set up now, here's something I wasn't expecting. Amazon. Alexa is built in. I get all the benefits of having Alexa. And now I even have hands free control of my music. I can use my voice to turn the TV on or off. That is a scary process because my voice is not necessarily great. To hear commands of like Alexa, turn on the TV. Alexa walk the dog anyway. I just I don't know why get into that, but it's it. You can do anything with this thing pretty soon. It will be walking my dog. But anyway, how great is all that, so get your Sonos today, don't wait. Don't you wanna listen to music in one room and a podcast in another or send sound from your TV everywhere. So you never miss a second of the action. Create the ultimate entertainment center with you're beam with your Sonos being so go online to get yours today. This is Wayne Johnson, and I'm excited to let you know that seven bucks productions and cadence. Thirteen are back with a brand new season of America's favorite podcasts. What really happened with Andrew Jenks us issues, Brian Jones, Jimi Hendrix, Janice Joplin, Jim Morrison, Kurt Cobain, Amy wine house. All died a twenty-seven years old. It has become known as the twenty seven club. Some say, this is nothing more than a media manufactured term tragedy. Randomly struck a group of people all at the same age. That's what I originally thought, but extensive studies going back over one hundred years show something else. What really happened now vailable on apple podcasts and wherever you listen, it's time to ask yourself what really happened. Let's go to a couple of other topics. I guess I would start by asking you. You know, you were an adamant, adamant supporter of the chargers, staying in San Diego and now obviously there in LA there's a lot of bitter feelings that flowed toward the chargers as they've moved up the four zero. Five. And I wonder now what do you think is the fate of the future of football in San Diego, you think there's a chance an NFL team ever goes back. Do you ever hear discussions about this. Not serious discussions. You know, there's a stadium problem there. Obviously that's why the chargers had to leave. So I would think that if any team ever were to relocate there, they'd have to build a new stadium I and and then go through all the steps required. But you know, it's it's a shame because San Diego is as as everyone knows is very desirable destination for Super Bowls because of the weather and because of the the city itself and the surrounding areas. So I always thought that if they could get a new stadium that obviously that the Super Bowl would be right around the corner because that seems to be the way the NFL operates when you build a stadium up new stadium and meets all the requirements, pretty sure you're going to get it Super Bowl. I hate to be pithy about this, but you know, I was thinking about this when writing about Paul Allen over the weekend, the the late Seattle owner. You know when he got that stadium built up in Seattle, I mean, and this was a generation ago. This is twenty one years ago when he got that stadium built, he put one hundred thirty million toward it plus the cost overruns. There were some. I don't know how much. And then there was a statewide referendum that raised three hundred million dollars. And again, I'm not trying to poop three hundred million dollars, but you know, I can see somewhere somebody coming up with that kind of money. You know to go toward building a huge new stadium, but now it's not three hundred or four hundred or five hundred million anymore. It's two billion and that and especially in San Diego with what with what the land would cost, you probably have to add even more to that. And that's why I think it's gotta be. I'm not saying a long shot, but man, there'd be a lot of hurdles to put a team back there. No question. And in California voters do not vote for stadiums, and that's a, that's a fact, and one that is going to be a huge hurdles. No question. This just occurred to me, you think there's any chance that an I. I see that that Russel Wilson is now a part of a perspective ownership group for major league baseball team in Portland, and I attended my first sports event in Portland last year. I went to see the timbers and that was a tremendous amount of fun. Really was a great crowd. I can see pro sports being extremely popular in Portland. Is there a prayer of a chance that an NFL team ever goes to Portland. I don't think so. I don't know if there's, you know the backing or the desire. I mean, you talking baseball, they, they've been talking about that forever. You know, the blazers have been a tremendous success in Portland, but I think the proximity of Seattle to Portland may be a problem there, and I'm not sure if there's public money or the, you know if there's enough public money to help fund that stadium strikes me, we would have to be like Phil Knight type guy. The way Paul Allen was in Seattle or I don't know anything about the the major corporations there, but I, hey, look, I think it's a great city. It's a great area. You know, it's like having Napa Valley in your backyard. You know the wine country, there really is beautiful. You got a great place. Dan. I appreciate come on back. We'll have another glass of wine with Dan Fouts of CBS sports. Dan. When I ask you about the state of football, I one of the reasons why I really wanted to hear your thoughts is that I'm starting to hear I Joe Staley of the forty Niners on my podcast last week and he talked about how he feels sorry for the defensive players and look over the years. You've heard a lot of contentiousness, hey, or they're too many rules favoring the offense. And but Staley basically said, I feel sorry for the defense because I don't know how you play aggressive football with these rules. And I wonder when you watch all these rules being made in the flags that you're seeing thrown, what do you think of the balance in the game right now? And what if anything, do you think should happen. That's a really good question because you know, everybody seems to being enjoying these wide open offenses, but Joe does have a point there. It's it's so unfair defense is now as thinking as you were asking me that question, maybe the solution is to let the defense play with twelve players and the offense just eleven because it just seems so many times now with these wide open offenses in these great athletes as receivers and running backs and tight ends that they're just running for free. And then after they they make a catch. They're breaking tackles because the tackles aren't as ferocious or is effective as they used to be because of the rules. But at one thing I've noticed last couple of weeks is some of the officials just start calling him like they did the beginning of the season. They're not calling helmet to helmet as much. They're not calling. You know, roughing the. Astor quite as much so who knows what? What's going on in the league office, but it seems that every year there's an emphasis on one rule or another. And what happens is they really enforce it early in the year. Then as the season goes along the officials kind of back off. So you tell me Dan, the first thing I thought when you said the defense, maybe the defense should play twelve players. I thought, okay, Dan, it's been great having you on a guest as a guest. Now we're going to put you back in the old football players home, but but I, I just thought to myself after while you were talking, I said, that's really, really cool idea. It's a progressive idea. It's a different idea, and I do not think it's a bad idea either get, it'd be really, really cool to naturally. As a matter of course, every secondary start five guys. Now, a lot of teams do that anyway. Now. Playing nickel on first down. But imagine if you had a third corner, just playing the game as a matter of course, on every play and instead of saying, well, let's your nickel guide. No, that's a starting guy. And you could play a fourth corner. He would be her nickel guy. It's really an interesting idea, especially because of the way offense is spread the field as early as I down now. And if you added an extra pass rusher you, you really see some some change there. So I dunno run that by the league office, see how far we. Dan, you talked about the helmet Talmant hits. That's what I'm on my high horse about this now because it's just that play was called whatever sixty two times in the preseason or something, and it was all the, you know, the the everybody was saying that, okay, the league is serious about it and it's like it's the league is the league cried wolf. You know yesterday on Sunday week, seven. Nigel, Brad him of the eagles came in lowered his helmet and hit Cam Newton helmet to helmet no flag. Meanwhile, in the Cleveland Tampa game, I don't know who the defensive player was, but Baker Mayfield got ear. Hold on a on a play, no flag and may feel turned around and said to the referee. He looked at the referee. It was as if he was saying, isn't that a penalty? I mean it it was two months ago, but evidently, you know, they're just put them in their pockets now and and I gotta tell you, is that those players that aren't getting called during a ballgame receive a call from the league saying, you're fine. Yeah, penalized during the game. So what's going on there exactly is, is the game still really, really enjoyable to you, Dan, or is it out of balance to the point where you might be losing your love a little bit for it? I still enjoy it. I mean, I hated defenses when I played. So I kinda like getting beat every Sunday. I just marvel at the athlete's ability of not only the offense players, but the defensive players to, and I enjoy getting to know the players and through our production meetings, you never know what's going to come out of them. And I think that I think the game is in good shape. I mean, people seem to be enjoying the Kansas City Chiefs in the Los Angeles Rams and how wide open and competitive that they are. And you know, can they keep it going? I guess who who can stop these teams. As somebody who three times threw for four thousand yards in his career. And when you did back. I think it was eighty one eighty two, something like that or seventy nine. I remember thinking this is the outer limits of football, and now the last two guys who've played quarterback for the chargers drew Brees and Philip rivers there among many who it's a matter of course, that they throw for four thousand and I wanna ask you just your thoughts on getting to know Brees over the years and getting to know rivers and what quality maybe you see, and you have found in these guys that maybe we in the media, and certainly the fans do not see in them. I think everybody sees both what those guys are made of. I guess the one word is enjoy -ment. They enjoy what they do in to get to that point. They work extremely hard. So it's it's great to see that type of dedication payoff week after week year after year for both those guys and for a lot of quarterbacks nowadays, we were talking about Brady earlier's the same is the same type of qualities that you know, you've got to enjoy what you do, but you'll enjoy it a lot more. If you work hard to get to the point where you wanna be. I'm gonna finish by asking you something that just occurred to me because I, I just started thinking about when we got together in Oregon last year, and we were just sitting there talking about life and and everything. And this thought occurred to me that for for people who don't really remember this. And for people who don't really know all about what exactly happened. You played in the coldest football game in NFL history. You played in the AFC championship game in Cincinnati in nineteen eighty two. And you, you basically took something from that game. You took a a health issue from that game that that that reminds you of that game to this day. Can you just tell me about what a what it was like playing that day and be what? What, what's it like living with that right now? Just about in the interview right there anyway. Now it's frostbite and you know when the weather gets cold, it's like my hands are constantly in a bucket of ice and for way too long. So you know, that's part of the game. Ironically, Kenny Anderson the Bengal quarterback who played so great that day as the same problem, we've we've shared exactly are experienced there and and our symptoms. So you know, it was a miserable day. It was windy. I didn't play very well. But in those days, quarterbacks didn't have the gloves that they have. Now they couldn't allow you to throw into keep your your hands warm, but you know, that's that's the game and and you just, you know, lucky enough to played as long as I did, and I've been able to play some big games and and have that experience. Dan fouled CBS sports. Pro football hall of fame quarterback, really, really appreciate you joining me and spreading some knowledge about a lot of different things. Thank you. Peter, you know that. Support for Peter King comes from our friends at rocket mortgage by Quicken Loans. It's America's premier home purchase lender. Let's talk about buying a home. It can be one of the most important purchases you'll ever make, but today's fluctuating interest rates can leave you with unexpected higher payments, and that can turn a great experience into an anxious one. That's why Quicken Loans created their exclusive power buying process. Here's how it works. They check your income assets in credit to give you a verified approval. This gives you the strength of a cash buyer making your offer more attractive to sellers. Once verified you qualify for their exclusive rate shield approval, they'll walk your interest rate for up to ninety days while you shop for your new home. Then once you found the one if rates have gone up, your rate stays the same. But if rates have gone down. You get to keep that new lower rate, either way you win. It's the kind of thinking you'd expect from America's largest mortgage lender to get started. Go to rocket mortgage dot com. Slash king that's rocket mortgage dot com. Slash k. i. n. g. rate shield approval only valid on certain thirty year purchase transactions. Additional conditions or exclusions may apply based on Quicken Loans, data in comparison to public data records equal housing lender licensed in all fifty states and l. s. consumeraccess dot org. Number thirty thirty. Now my conversation with Tim Rohan the QB. Back on the Peter King podcast, happy to be joined by Tim Rohan of the QB. Tim is a former peer of mine still is a peer of mine, but formerly, I worked with him at the QB. And Tim late in my time at the QB began to work on this project. And this project now is out it's a podcast it's called fall of titan about Steve McNair who nine plus years ago in July of two thousand nine was found dead in an apartment in Nashville. A mistress of his young girl in Nashville was found to have killed Steve McNair and then killed herself. It was called the murder suicide, and that's what the police termed it. And after autopsies after examination of the case was closed, but Tim row hand, my intrepid little friend did not necessarily believe that the case should be closed, and so he began to look into it. And Tim, your podcast is going to be a nine part series. Part one is right now up. It's done by cadence, thirteen, and you have eight more parts to go. And every week it will drop a new episode will drop on Wednesday. And I'm so excited about this because I believe that. Podcasts are so much fun. I have gotten into crime podcasts. I've gotten into podcast of cereal of somebody knows something on the Canadian Broadcasting company. I just listened to a lot of these and I really, really like him anyway, that's a very, very long way to introduce you. But thanks for joining me on the podcast. Things were Peter, tell me about the Genesis of this and what made you think that Steve McNair and this murder case was an interesting podcast. I mean, it started it started way back in the summer twenty seventeen. We were just kicking around true crime ideas, and Adam dourson s. is true. Crime editor approach me with an idea of running out Steve McNair. And you know, I think it's one of those cases that you know, I think people just kind of forgot about a little bit. You know, Stephen near one point time made the. Pro Bowl multiple times NFL MVP co MVP with Peyton Manning with Peyton Manning, and and he was murdered, you know, one year after retiring from football us thirty six years old and felt like it was really under reported story. Even though as crazy as that sounds, we thought it was under reported, and so we started looking into it. And you mentioned something there at the top that you know that I thought that this, you know that I started investigating this and I thought it wasn't a murder suicide. I think the reason that drew us to this case was that there was a lot of people that didn't think that, you know, I'm just reporting what those people right are saying. And so and what's interesting about this case is that you really don't know for sure what happened. I don't think anybody knows for sure what happened in that apartment, and that's what makes it so interesting. And quite honestly, the way this these podcasts really have become very, very interesting is that you listen to these and you're not positive. What happened in many of. Going right back to cereal the first one that exploded onto the American scene, so that in some ways, a lot of people say, jeez, I wanna know, tell me exactly what happened. Well, sometimes you can't know. Yeah, and there's just you're asking, why? Why are we intrigued by this story? It was just, you know, there's so many different characters. There's so much mystery around it, and there's still questions not were nine plus years later, and they're still family members and friends on both sides on the mistress side. And on Steve McNair side who don't think it happened the way the police said, it happened who still have questions, you still have concerns and their lingering, you know. And so hopefully this podcast lays those or that's what we're gonna do a layout. All those questions go down all those rabbit holes and kind of show the public. What's been kind of festive with Steve McNair case for the last nine years. So let's take a moment please, and we're gonna play the trailer to this podcast so that people can have some understanding exactly what we're talking about then when we. We come back from that trailer, which is a couple of minutes long when we come back from that trailer. I've got a couple of specific questions to ask you about the key people in this crime. Breaking news story out of Tennessee, former NFL quarterback. Steve McNair has been found dead this afternoon at an apartment complex there in now, saying, a woman was also found shot to death to death. After nearly four days of intensive investigation, the police department has concluded that Steve McNair was murdered by Suhil Kazimi and that turn, he'll Kazimi killed herself with a single gunshot wound to her head the totality of the evidence, clearly points to murder suicide. Steve McNair was the former star quarterback at the Tennessee titans. He was a former NFL MVP on July fourth, two thousand nine. One year after he'd retired from football St. was found dead in his Nashville condo with his mistress dead at his feet. The police quickly ruled that the mistress, Jenny Kazimi at killed him and turned the gun on herself. Run the anniversary of Steve's death. An editor at Sports Illustrated approach me with an assignment, go right about Steve McNair. It seemed like a fairly straightforward story. Then I started doing some research and I came across a former Nashville cop who still had some pretty big questions about the case, a guy by the name of Vincent hill. Vinson had been interviewing people gathering evidence and getting his own investigation, and he didn't believe Jennie had killed Steve McNair. He didn't think this was a murder suicide. He thought that the national police at royally botched, the investigation. When they said it was a murder suicide. I just looked at the circumstances. I said, there's no way that Suhel Kazimi aka Ginny would goal. That off Vinson starts filling my head with all these theories who stole sees money who still Steve's necklace is Rolex his wedding ring. She didn't take it. Then I start reaching out to Stephen Jenny's friends and family, and it turns out a lot of them have the same questions. It's not just Vincent hill. They of questions about the police investigation about Jenny supposing motives about the alleged murder weapon, researching open close case. It's like they closed it. Be four felt like they were even able to do a proper investigation. There's not a Persian is not ever him done. Thank about stays death is not just about his relationship with a twenty year old girl. His death is about money, pow. Power so forth. And so on. In this podcast will resume in the Steve McNair case nine years later we'll dive and all these questions. Good and all these rabbit holes and impose questions to people in power. He told me that they mad. They around me out today. I got a lot of people don't like me. We'll walk you through a family's fight freelancers in all the intriguing developments that have come up in recent years. It is very unlikely that two semi is the only component and Steve's death. The questions are legitimate enough that I think it's fair to reassess at this point. The Jenny Kazimi really kill. Steve McNair. No. Another story, complete underside to story, watching October seventeenth from Sports Illustrated and cadence. Thirteen fall of titan subscribe on apple podcasts or wherever you get your shows a lot of unusual. Things that have gone on up never been brought the surface. So Tim, I thought what was very interesting both about the case and in this podcast is that there are professionals. There are former police officers, former police officer, former private investigator who basically have a difference of opinion. If you ask the Nashville police department, and if you ask other people who now, you know have taken time to investigate it. They're going to think differently about what exactly happened. What can you tell me about the conflict of professional people in investigations and in law enforcement who simply don't agree on what happens. Steve McNair. Yeah. I mean, the tension there is between two separate parties. There's a Nashville police department and they're pretty much in unison on that in there say it was a murder. Suicide thing was a clear case. That the mistress killed Steve, and that's that just accept that. And then there's another faction of people and the only real professional there is this guy by the name of Vincent hill, and he's a former Nashville cop is a former Nashville cop who left the department and since turned himself into a private investigator, and he's of the belief that it wasn't emerged suicide, and that there's a big conspiracy going on and that Suhel Kazimi did not kill Steve McNair. Now, this relationship is really this tension between Vincent hill and his former co workers and his former colleagues at the Nashville police department. This is kind of one of the central theme throughout the podcast, this butting of heads against these two parties, and if people will go listen to episode one, that's pretty much what all of one is about is about Vincent. At one point he was one of he was considered a good officer with the national police department received good reviews scores. He was named office than month multiple times. They really lauded him. There was a few incidents. He got in. Behavioral incidents where he was suspended or going to be suspended by the department. And so he ended up leaving the parliament, he says, for personal reasons. And then this McNair case comes up and he decides to make this life mission to prove that the national police are wrong and that they botched the case. So then you get a whole thing about motives, what are people's motives ear? What are there, you know, what would you say is the basis for Vincent hill, believing that the investigation was done wrong. He just thinks he's, he's spent nine years investing in the case now, and he thinks that. You know, he looks at, you know, these are things we will get into the podcast, but he he talks about how you know if you look at the crime on a very basic level. The police say that Jenny Kazimi Steve's mistress. She's five four, one hundred twenty five pounds that she shot him four times twice in the chest in once in each temple and then shot herself. First of all shooting. These are all this is all in Vincent hills. Words here. This isn't me, but Vincent is of the opinion that a, you know, a petite girl who apparently never handled a gun before, couldn't fire that accurately hitting him in both temples and twice in the chest. As people have pointed out to me, some of these friends though, sound like kill shots, and it sounds like a professional shooting. And so he's looking at the circumstances like, okay, that doesn't exactly add up there with their any. Any suspicion or or any evidence that she had practised handling a gun before this day? You know she, she had never handled a gun before by all accounts, and you know it gets complicated there as far as like, you know, the police talk a lot about her background, right and recycle ethical background in what was going on in her life up until now. There's a lot of people who the police point to her actions leading up to his death, and they say she caught him or she was head suspicions that he was seeing other women. She was having financial difficulties in her life. She was stressed about money, and then she was arrested for DUI two days before a couple of days before they, they ended up being found dead. And so the police repainting his picture of her kind of spiraling out of control. And that's really a picture as we'll get into episode three, you know, coming up here, that's really a picture that Jenny's friends and family don't find to be true, and you know, they've looked back at all these events at the police are talking about, you know, they don't see it. Exactly that way. You know what's not smart job sites that overwhelm you with tons of the wrong resumes, but do you know what is smart? ZipRecruiter dot com. Slash king. Unlike other job sites, ZipRecruiter doesn't wait for candidates to find you. ZipRecruiter finds them for you. It's powerful matching technology scans, thousands of resumes, then at identifies people with the right skills, the right education and the right experience for your job and actively invites them to apply for your job. See you get qualified candidates fast. There's no more sorting through lousy resumes, no more waiting for the right candidates to apply. It's no wonder that ZipRecruiter is rated number one by employers in the United States. This rating comes from hiring sites on trust pilot with more than one thousand reviews. And right now my listeners can try ZipRecruiter for free at this exclusive web address, ZipRecruiter dot com. Slash king that's ZipRecruiter dot com. Slash k I n g ZipRecruiter dot com. Slash king ZipRecruiter. It's the smartest way to hire. Tim in general is we discussed this during the time when we worked together at the m. QB it struck me that there is some suspicion, at least in maybe some evidence that the Nashville police department may have jumped some conclusions such as the conclusion of his MS of his mistress, spiraling out of control that that may be true, but also there's a good chance that may not be true. Do you think that is at the basis of Vincent hill suspicions? Yeah, no, yeah. He talks a lot about, you know, in the police, one of the major things we as we talk about four. You know, one of the main points of the story is the gun that was used to kill Steve McNair. The police say that the mistress bought the gun from next con the day. You know the day before or the night, you know, a couple of hours before the murder, and so. That's a big point of contention because there's no evidence that appears no evidence of that gun sale took place other than the ex-cons word. And so you know, a lot of the seems based on, you know, in Vincent hills is a lot of the seems based on flimsy, evidence or evidence that can be contradicted in some sort of way. And so you know, it's kind of a back and forth. You could see you could pick apart so many different parts of this case. You look at the gun sale. You look at Janice motive. You look at, you know, where did she get the gun yet? So they say they said that she bought it from this guy in a parking lot, but they don't have they haven't shown video of the gun sale taking place. They don't quote Jenny's friends saying, oh yeah, I knew she bought a gun. There's no one that says she bought this gun other than the guy who sold it to her. And so you know, we find him credible. That's a good question. We get into the, you know, we get into the aspect of his credibility in for, and it turns out that he was untruthful at times to the police. And you know, that's a big part of four. So. That's that's that entire episode is deconstructing gun sale, Tim. I find that in true crime podcast, one of the best ways to do it, which I think is the way you have done it is you simply tell the story you do not at any point, say, here's what I think happened, and here's what you should believe. You simply build the house. That's what you do in. That's your job. What was your? What was your point throughout this process and how did you want this story to be told? Yeah, I mean, I think you know, that's exactly right. You know, like I was saying, you know, you know you're, you're asking Gengo met your last question, but asking if I think gilliam's credible, it's almost it doesn't matter what I think. Right. It's I'm laying out there and letting you. Okay. Here's what he's telling, you know, and I thought that was the process throughout the whole podcast because it is kind of. Subjective and you can either look at it from the police society look at from Vincent hillside. You look at from the family cider, whichever perspective you're looking from. We're trying to lay it out there to let you understand. This is what people think this is what's out there. And this is why people think this and then let you be the judge. And I think that's kind of what you have to do, especially when you know it's a case, so complicated like this. And also when you go somebody different directions, Tim, when we worked together, you wrote so many interesting stories and so many so many long stories. You wrote a truly great story about John Herschel, the retired Baltimore Ravens guard who retired basically to become a mathematician and go to school at MIT to try to get to be one of the world's most. For most mathematicians, you wrote a great story about Donald Trump as as a US f. l. owner of the New Jersey generals. So you've you've been really, really good, right? Eating about people in great depth. What was different about doing a podcast in great depth? That's good question. I think it was. You know, I mean, people are different when when they have a microphone for them. Right. I mean, even when you're a journalist and you're interviewing someone, you have your tape recorder on. You know, sometimes I think people can forget that tape recorder's there when you have a big honking professional podcast, Mike in front of him, it's harder for them to forget, but sometimes they do. I think that's kind of the art of the interview. Right? And it's like, you know, if TV Cameron for longer the interview, the better, I believe, yeah. You mean for podcasts? Yes. Yeah, sure. And and but I think it's. I guess it's it's the same skill set though, getting people to open up and you know you're using it. You're using the same tools and the real. The real difference I thought was writing the scripts. And like when you sit down, you're writing a serialized scripted, you know what you're right on the page may not sound great saying allowed and you know the back and forth of that and then sounds like you're writing like a, you know, TV show, but you know, it's a audio series and it was a lot of fun. Do you, you haven't finished this yet as we speak? No. So when you get to the end, do you believe that you were going to try to convince people in one way or the other? What happened or are you going to allow people to try to form their own opinion? I think I don't think I'm gonna you know, I don't think I'm going to take a hard stance one way or the other, but I think there is gonna be stuff at the end. I mean, what as you get through the whole series as I've been saying to people, I think there's going to be a lot of stuff along the way that sometimes gonna make you scratch your head and think, wow, I really don't think she did do it, and there may be some points where you think a while she might have done it and you know, we're gonna lay everything out there and let you decide, and I may, you know, at the end, I may give my opinion or I may let you know what I think, but I don't think that's going to be, you know, maybe agree with me. Maybe you don't. That's kind of beauty of. Thing. But yeah, you're right. The we haven't written the last episode yet and people have been. I've been talking on national radio and people have been asking me, okay, you know, assure you got something in we do have stuff. We have a lot of new stuff in here. We have a lot of. New information, and you know, we, we do thorough deep dive into the case and we bring up new stuff and we bring up stuff that probably a lot of people haven't heard before. And I think by the end of it, you know, I think a lot of people think this is going to be the definitive, you know, project on the Steve McNair case, I think this is gonna be goes deeper than anyone's ever gone before Tim. The other day, Scott Fowler of the Charlotte observer reached out to me and he said, hey, I'm putting out a podcast on Ray Caruth getting out of prison now for those who don't remember the Ray Carruth case Ray Caruth. And another man were found a complicit in the murder of his pregnant girlfriend. In Charlotte, trying to think about twenty years ago. I forget exactly how long it is and he's been imprisoned since then. The woman died, but the baby was born in the baby is developmentally disabled, and a delightful kid a teenager now or maybe around twenty and Ray Caruth is getting out of jail and Scott Fowler who has written extensively about this over the years is doing a podcast on this at the exact same time, the Boston Globe spotlight team. They're investigative team, which is very, very good is doing a multi part podcast on Aaron Hernandez and what led him to become this basically this monster. And so at the same time, right in the middle, you're coming out with Steve McNair podcast. This seems like one of the great coincidences in recent whatever, journalism history, but is it, is it all a coincidence? And what do you know about these other deals? It's a complete coincidence. As far as I'm concerned. And I don't know. And also not only that Boston Globes dropped October fifteenth. I believe the Charlotte server dropped the sixteenth and ours drop the seventeenth. They'll dropped on three consecutive days. That's crazy. And I guess you save the best relaxed. I don't know. No, those. I mean those. I mean, you know, when I saw those, I mean, I thought I thought, you know, we've been working on this for more than a year and it was a surprising even back then that no one in the sports realm or in the journalism realme taken had taken a sports story. And really, you know, given at the podcast treatment, but you know, it's a, it's a great form. As you mentioned at the top that you know podcast really give you chance to dive deep is something over a course of a serialized episodes, and you know, you can still use the same writing skills that you have as a journalist and the same reporting just apply sports. I think it's really good for sports journalism, especially having the spotlight team come in and do something, you know, significant. I've, you know, read the first two parts series and spend fan. Tastic excited to listen the right thing. I think you know, in looking at those and I, I think they're all three separate stories to right, and they're all interesting, true crime stories in in their own. Right. I mean, you look at the Hernandez thing and you know does is dead. And so the Boston Globe is kind of going back in trying to make sense of his complicated life. The right crew thing, you know, I think Ray raised coming out of prison, right? I think he said to be, we asked from prison, so I'm curious to see what kind of new information they have. But that's kind of a case. That's, you know, he went to. He went to jail, so his his cases kind of, I don't know how much mysteries there, but this Steve McNair thing, you know, there's a lot of people who still don't know what truly happened, right? There's this, you know ours is that there was this. The police came to the conclusion. There's a lot of people who've questioned that conclusion. Right? So I think they all three kind of take like an interesting, you know, look at, you know, they're all different approaches to, you know. You know, tough subjects, Tim Rohana the QB. Your nine part podcast series fall of titan comes out or has come out rather with part one. You'll have part two coming out this week and it'll be out for seven weeks after that brought to you by cadence. Thirteen, the same producers of this podcast. So I wish you the best, Tim, and I'm really, really excited to follow this throughout the fall. Thanks Peter around me on. Thanks to my guest, Dan Fouts and Tim row him. If you enjoy these conversations, be sure to listen and subscribe to other great episodes. In my podcast series such as my conversations with Roger Goodell John Elway and Chris Mortensen, you can find these on apple podcasts, radio dot com or anywhere you get your podcast and don't forget to leave a review while you're there. You can also hear the Peter King podcast on Sirius XM radio every Saturday morning at seven eastern on mad dog sports radio Sirius. XM channel eighty two. Thanks to the folks that cadence thirteen for their production work. And thanks of course to my sponsors, Sonos, quicken and ZipRecruiter. Please support them the way they support this podcast. And I'll see you next week.