Jim & Sandy Melgar
Thank you for listening to this. Podcast one production now available on spotify apple podcasts. Podcast one dot com in anywhere else. You podcasts I've said it before and I'll say it again. Don't cut bangs while you're stuck board at home but you know what you can do is dye your hair with Madison Reed with Madison reading and get Gorgeous Professional hair-color delivered to your door. Starting at twenty two dollars for decades women have had two options for colouring. Their hair is either outdated at home color or the time and expense of a traditional salon and with Madison Reed. Women love their results. There's gorgeous shiny multidimensional healthy looking hair and this is game changing color that you can do it home and look if you just came from the salon and what makes Madison Reed Color. So unique that it's crafted by master Colorado's who nuances of light dark cool and warm tones to create over fifty five gorgeous multi dimensional shades. Find your perfect shade at Madison Reed Dot Com and I agree. Listeners can get ten percent off plus free shipping on their first color kit with code first degree. Podcast that's code. I agree podcast at Madison. Dash Reed Dot com again. Ten percent off plus free shipping at Madison Dash Re Dot Com with code first degree. Podcast US degree degree degree degree. I the first degree supposed to have it in movies. Not a prosecutor tried to say she like came up behind him supply. Tim like cut flushes next from behind. Something crazy like that. And then he turned around and loved her too much to put a hand on her basically he just let my mom stabbed him to death. Which is ridiculous. It's just fucking ridiculous. Welcome to the first degree that true crime podcast that you might end up on my name. Is Jack Panic? I'm sitting far away from Alexader. Farther away from Billy Johnson and I am officially ready for this distance. Podcasting to be over. But we're GONNA jump right into the day because I think that the Jodi Arias series was next level and we have an incredible case to give to you today and we want to jump right in with one banger after the next bangers bangers billy what day is it well I WanNa Make Jack Cry. Because it's National Rescue Dog Day. It is yes. Oh it's just my dream to rescue a special needs. Frenchie dog one day one day. Thanks for that day billy yes. It is also international clinical trials day which is more important seemingly now than ever. Wow these are pretty. Relevant days adopt a Fox. If anybody cares you no Alexis has developed a new obsession with Fox's and Fos Fox rescues that also the laugh like humans. They're the most interesting animals. They're like raccoon dog hybrids that look like humans and have just deep nece in there. Is this Fos Fox rescue that you brought me onto? They also rescued Chinchillas. That I've seen pop publicity great rats today pop up in their Fox and the Fox and the cats get along. It's like through living. It's like it's like a storybook it's what about the what about the hounds and there billy. Well maybe there should be okay. I'll let them know okay. Well that's enough of that. So let's turn on the lights and turn up your anxiety because this could be today's episode is about more than a case that simply stole the headlines more than a first degree sharing her story today. What we're sharing with you as a story of a daughter's worst nightmare in there are few things more painful to imagine in the world than the brutal vicious murder of your father but there are in fact worse things worse would be if you knew the killer was still out there and were still would be if your own. Mother was wrongly convicted for killing him. The Melgar family lived in Houston Texas. There is Gem Sandra whoever one called Sandy and their daughter. Liz Jim had born in Guatemala and emigrated into the United States when he was a baby his family ultimately moved to Houston Texas and he was raised there and in high school. He met the love of his life and his future wife. Sandra shortly after high school the couple got married and they supported each other as they pursued their respective careers. Jim was fascinated by Internet technology and sandy nursing. Eventually the family joined the Jehovah's Witness Faith and they started a family and had their daughter Liz by two thousand twelve. Liz was an adult. She was living in Europe with her husband and life was just moving. According to plan she was planning on starting a family soon. We we were living in England and we had just started to make a move over to Switzerland because my husband and I were looking to move to Texas. We were waiting for his work visas that we were slowly moving things over and we just made it back. Tanglin to celebrate Christmas with his family. And since my witnesses and have you know don't celebrate any holidays But at the around that time I had also had a miscarriage and I had just gotten out of the hospital so I woke up. That left in ten thirty eleven. I woke up and I see all these messages and my on facebook. And everyone's telling me how much they love me and how they're just they want to be there for me and you know if I need anything. I'm not hesitate to ask them all sorts of things and so. I figured that these things are just connected to the miscarriage. So I've seen that. Is this news story. I- timeline and The police tape around my family home. You know my mom is being walked out By the police my dad's been motored. Nfl ONLY NOW. So in this chaos. Liz starts frantically trying to contact family members. She can't reach anyone but then she finally gets through to her cousin. She didn't even have much to tell me. She didn't even know where my mother was. She told me that the police had taken to the hospital. Because was seizure and by the time. I finished calling all the hospitals in the area because I went to the paramedic school that actually services my area. I realized she wasn't any of the hospitals and started calling the police stations. But nobody knew where she was either It took a while to finally find her already heading of the airport and ready to go. You know by the time I found her but yeah it was. It was very little in br formation and It was all a big. Hey we were in a huge rush. It's really weird because I was kinda shocked but it still feels like it's playing slow motion in my head when I think about that. Time list finally arrives in. Houston and her cousin and her mom are there to pick her up. And it's at this point. That was still knows very little about what's actually happened. All she knows for sure is that our dad has been murdered. It was such a. I need to see that she was okay. You know she. She did have like a bruising around her I she had these like horrible like we win purple marks around her wrists per arms going towards her forearms and she had a lump on her head and she was alive. And that was like asked for in that moment you know to see her sitting in front of me and there's just kind of felt like it felt like a relief at that time but looking back now. I see the are nightmare was just beginning and while initially of course unsurprisingly. Liz's mother sandy is in no condition to just answer a barrage of questions about what happened. Liz Of course is patient. They're all grieving. They're all in shock about losing their father. Their husband and their slather devastated. But here's slowly with. Liz starts to glean about what's happened. Sandy starts to open up about her experience that night. So in order for us to properly lay out the facts for you you need a little background information. So in the winter of twenty twelve. Jim was five months away from retiring. Which was a huge accomplishment to celebrate and there was another milestone to celebrate that December as well was his parents. Sandy and Jim were celebrating thirty two years of marriage. These who had been together thirty two years. They'd been high school sweethearts. Which is something extremely rare these days as we all know and appropriately that a special night planned the couple had made plans have dinner at their favorite. Mexican restaurant and when they got home they headed to their master suite for a dip and their big Jacuzzi style bathtub which. I'm Super Jealous. That they had at this point or this night. That sounds so lovely of antic night for a couple celebrating. Their anniversary takes a really terrifying. Turn brace yourselves because there's a lot to unpack here. So here's how everything went down so at four thirty PM on the day after Jim and Sandy's anniversary Jim's brother Herman and his family arrived at the Melgar's for family holiday dinner that they had planned weeks prior so this would be the twenty third of December twenty twelve when Herman his wife Maria and their daughters arrived. The front door of the Melgar's home was locked and no one was answering the door when they knocked. Jim And sandy also were answering their phones so Herman walked on the side of the House. He looked over the fence. He could see Gyms like half done home improvement projects. He had some tarps out. I mean he was always doing stuff like this in all seem sort of mom so but there was no sign of them in the backyard so Herman decided to walk through the garage so the garage door was open. He could see sandy silver car parked inside of it. There was a door into the home in the garage that entered into the laundry room. So the hope here is that it's open so it was open. He goes inside he then goes to the front door and lets his family inside his wife and his daughters house. The House is extremely dark. All the blinds are closed and suddenly as walking around sort of feeling out the situation. Bahir these muffled sounds in slowly but surely they start to realize that they are the muffled screams of Sandy. So they move from the house in. Herman runs to the Master Bedroom. Turns toward the closet in their. He finds a large chair propped under the doorknob of their walking closet. Which is right off. The bathroom in this chair is jamming the door and keeping it closed. So we've seen this before and movies. You put a chair under a doorknob and it creates the situation where it's very very hard to open the door. So when he you opened the door he finds screaming. Sandra tied up in a black ninety her hands and feet bound and she is just hysterical so Herman and his wife Maria Frantically tried to entice sandy but the bindings were too tight and they couldn't get them loose at all the eventually find a pair of scissors and cut her free one. Sandy was tied. She got up and started calling out for gym shoes crying out for him she someone into the bedroom and turn towards his claws and they could see his feet sticking out of the doorway. Jim was dead. He had a knotted rope loosely wrapped around his chest and telephone cords were tied around his ankles. He was covered in blood with Gash marks across his neck and torso. There was blood all over the safe. That sat next to him and his feet were tied with cord from the phone. There was blood all over the walls and another thing worth mentioning so when we hear Sandy was in a closet. Jim was in the closet. They had the kind of sweet where there's a bathroom in a each had. Their own sort of master closets in Sandy was tied up in barricaded in hers. Jim was found with his feet out of his so when paramedics attempted to render aid to sandy she was sobbing and she was sobbing to the point where she could hardly speak to the woman trying to help her. In the field report written by the first responding paramedic she noted that quote syndrome remained in a state of shock and had periods of crying and that santer quote had no sense of time and lasts recalls a time of about one. Am this morning. She did not realize that it was evening time. Approximately fifteen hours had passed. Sandra was disoriented paralyzed in fear and sadness at the reality she just lived through. So that's what? The paramedics observed when they got there then. The police arrived. And here's some of what they saw when they entered the home so they noted that dresser drawers in the bedroom. And in guestrooms of the homework pulled out and rifled through pill. Bottles were strewn on the floor. Sandra's person while it had been dumped out on the master bed in the white comforter on the master bed was dotted in speckled with blood chairs and other furniture. In the room or bloodied and speckled splash of blood as well and when they enter the bathroom they could see the tub that they had taken a bath in. Sandra Jim and it was partially filled with water. They saw a knife sitting at the bottom of the TUB. They saw a white blouse floating in the water and they saw a green a hand towel also floating in the water and they noted about this. This knife there were matching ones in the kitchen indicating that this had been taken from their own kitchen drawer so on the ledge of the Bathtub was a bowl of strawberries and then a container of whipped cream. Like you get glick cool APP something like that. I don't brand. It was but it was in the container like that so when the police approach Jim his feet were laying outside of the doorway. Ashby said off the closet in the master bedroom. We mentioned how his feet were tied the red rope around his chest and they noted the safe next to him and there were smears of blood on the safe and two small cues to the safe for on the carpet right in front of it. Another thing they noted was that there was a mop and bucket in the Melgar's dining room and Sandra told the police that she used it to clean up after their families dogs and they had four dogs two of which were puppies so she basically left this thing out because accidents were happening so frequently which which makes sense all right so that's a lot a lot of information. So what the hell happened. The police had a lot of questions and they're hoping that sandy could help them. Piece all these different questions together. Sandy complained about this bumgarner head but she ended up declining to be transported to the hospital to receive an additional medical attention for it instead. She went to the police headquarters to give a recorded statement to the investigators. Once they arrived. Pictures of Sandra's body were taken. There were bruises all over her arms. There didn't appear to be any blood on her. They took swabs from underneath. Sandra's fingernails to test for DNA. And then she walked investigators through everything that she can remember from the night. Sandy went over there at anniversary plans. She and Jim got home and they drew a bath and the master. Bath Jacuzzi and they took about together for a few hours. They talked about the future and everything they were excited about trips a beach house they wanted to buy after. Jen's retirement all that they finished in the bath and it was noted that they for sure had sex. That's what Sandy said and sandy went into her closet. Sat Down and started putting lotion on her legs. It was at that time that they heard dogs barking. Which is their dogs. Jim grabbed a towel and put on. Sandy slippers. And eating lockdown. Half put them on. You know like a man will hit on a girl smaller shoes that you can just slip on so clearly. He was intending to come right back. It's like let me just go over here to see what's up and Sandy said. That was the last time she ever saw Jim Alive. The next thing she remembered were barking dogs again. Only now it was daylight. Sandy had no idea what time it was. She was in terrible pain. She tried to roll over but she had a double hip replacement and couldn't muster the strength to roll herself over. She started looking around to make sense of where she was. She was in her closet. Her hands were bound. Her feet were tied. She was wearing the same black satin nightgown that she was wearing the night before right and when sandy awoke she had no idea what time it was. She had no idea who could possibly hear her if she started yelling. Screaming was the only option and eventually after his she'd screamed for what seemed like forever. She did hear voices. She started screaming louder. And that's when she heard the voice of a brother-in-law Herman who ended up ultimately freeing her us for everything that happened between the time. Jim Walked out to go check on the dogs in the night before to when she woke up the next morning sandy couldn't remember anything that had transpired. There are probably many questions swirling around in your heads right now. I is nice family and why but there are. Probably some of you. Having listened to a lot of true crime that might be wondering if it really is possible for Sandra to have no recollection of what happened right. And if you think that Sandra's memory loss sounds weird to you. It's really not. There are so many different explanations for this type of memory loss. The first is the shock trauma from this experience itself. So humans have developed memory loss or psychogenic Amnesia as this defense mechanism and survival skill to protect themselves from intense psychological damage. A person may suppress traumatic memories until they're mentally ready to handle them and for some people this may never happen at all and in addition to the trauma and shock of the night itself. We told you about the Grand Mal seizures. Sandra suffered from these seizures interfere at the input of information in the brain and therefore interfere with the memory and can cause memory loss after a seizure extremely common to experience confusion and foggy nece as new memory. Traces are not being laid down in the brain as they normally are also Sandra seizures lead to a loss of consciousness and violent convulsions. They'd gotten so bad that Sandra had to stop working as a nurse which is a career that she was really happy to be in and she has a seizure. It would be common for her to sleep for a long long time afterwards and wakeup really confused and a lot of pain. I remember being a little bit and seeing my mom have a seizure and I remember You know being taught what to do and who to call and to call those people and you know I did. Cpr training at the age of nine. And I learned started learning how to drive a car in case you know something happened in. I had to take over something else. She was driving and there were times where she couldn't even think straight she wouldn't know where you know. What common objects we use every day. Are you know when she has a seizure when she has a seizure? She's out of it for good twenty four hours. She can sleep that entire time And she's just trying to recover from the the seizure alone in this makes sense given that she slept essentially until four. Pm than next day. That's an and having the White House one day was exactly if it happened in. You know we saw and heard what the paramedic center field notes. This woman has no idea what time it is what day it was. She had no idea. It's the next day and I know we've all had that where we accidentally take a nap. And you're not sure if you woke up the next day or if it's nighttime it's it's one of those it's it can be super disorienting and I imagine having a seizure. It's such a stress on your brain that of course you sleep I'm sure it takes a lot out of you and your brain probably does that to protect you in a way too so the police press sandy about everything. Her marriage her religion everything affairs. What could be going on between them. They wanted to know every single thing and throw the questioning. She started to notice the therapy there. Probings slowly transformed into a tone that seemed accusatory. And she's wondering yourself. Do they actually think that I did this? Investigators then told sandy point blank that our story was not adding up the Astros. Explain why she had bruising on both upper arms and to this sandy offered several possible explanations? She said that she bruises really easily. For reasons. Related to a chronic illness medication she takes can make brews and her physical mobility was limited due to our thrice and bruising can happen for a number of reasons. I mean I'm healthy. And I'm covered with bruises ninety percent of the time because I'm clumsy in malnourished strew. She also suggested that. Some of the bruising may have been caused earlier that night when she tried to the tub to use the bathroom in. Jim grabbed her arm to prevent her from slipping. So sometimes we have these bruises all of us people. Ask where you got it and you just don't really know and that seems to be what's happening here when asked about their relationship. Sandy said that she and Jim had a great marriage that there was never any abuse or anything and the interrogated her for three hours. She was freezing inside the room. She had a massive headache. Just remember the ordeal that she had just been put through and she's likely a great deal of pain both physically and obviously emotionally and like we said Sandy was interviewed and interrogated essentially for three hours on the very same day. Same evening rather that. She was freed from her closet the same day. She found out that her husband had been murdered. And here's a portion of that interrogation Roy that you get out time when he's getting stabbed bludgeoned multiple times like that died screaming thighs. Just I don't understand the laudable that he lost in wherever you encountered heating out of them before you did came knock. You think there was ample opportunity for you to hear something in the. You're saying nothing. I mean. You could have run in the bathroom. You hear that what I don't understand. Could you hear? Could you hear yellow for help? You hear straightening when he was paying. We know that he suffered a lot help me. I need your help me. Help me on this. Can you help me? I need you to help me. Sandra can you help me? Tiny helps hinder. Please help me screaming for screaming after screaming even hang on health. Help me Sandra Help Kelly rather than I got you. A lot of pain felt me. Sandra need help defender. Sander healthy be need. Help here doc. His I need help helped me. That's I need a lawyer I. I'm not talking anymore because you guys are just trying to torture me here. Fortunate on massive for him. Love your husband Yes. My husband gifts wants the course think you do? Did you kill your to do with your husband's debt now? Now if you're anything like me when you listen to the audio this interrogation evokes a lot of feelings and it resonates in some whether you are the true crime buff and you're thinking about what tactics detectives are using or your empathizing with Sandra. Somebody traumatize somebody who is sitting there and listening while detective is essentially trying to mock what her husband could have been saying as he's suffering and it's infuriating. It's curious and of course. There's a lot of unanswered questions still at this point in this case. But what can very clearly see here. Is that this was mere after. Sandra was pulled from this closet. They're already convinced that Sandra is the culprit and it seems like the police getting really really angry at her. She's clear on some things she's not another things and they're not doctors. They're detectives in clearly. We've gone over the fact that it's very possible given her medical conditions that she would not be able to remember everything particularly had. She suffered a seizure so they're frustrated but they don't understand the full picture at this point but then they ask her an interesting question that sometimes can make people seem guilty but I think it makes them smart. They asked if she'd take a polygraph and she declined literally. Taking a polygraph is never in your best interest if you pass it. They can't use it in court to exonerate you point less and if you fail it you just look super super guilty in. They'll start looking at you even harder and trying make evidence exists. That isn't even there. So if you're ever acetate polygraph just say no. Would any defense lawyer would tell you to do? It cannot help you. Okay SORRY BELLY. What were you saying? One of the investigators said to her quote. We're GONNA find out everything about you. We're GONNA find out everything about your husband. We're going to talk to everybody in your neighborhood. We're going to talk to everybody that you're related to. We're GONNA learn everything and quote and Sandy responded quote. That'll help you look somewhere else to. Because it wasn't me and quote by the end of the interrogations that detectives frustration at Sandra. Lack of memory was clear. So when investigators asked Sandra she thought had happened to gem. She said that she believed that. It was a home invasion and it had turned violent for whatever reason. She wasn't sure because she and Jim had absolutely no known enemies that she could really think of it all. She racked her brain trying to think of anything that could have led to this whole situation. She mentioned that Jim had been driving slowly the night before. And he'd gotten into this tense situation with a guy that was getting them on their way home and also she and Jim owned rental properties and there was bad blood with one of the tenants but she didn't really think that that tenant had any reason to take things as far choose remorseful about not being able to remember anything because of course she wanted the person responsible to pay for the crime. So the you know at the time I it had just been a breaking gone wrong and I couldn't understand why my dad would have done anything so cavalier is to try and you know maybe fight these cheaper. I don't know what and then you know got killed because my God my God was from a little country. He also grew up In Guatemala so there was a civil war going on when he was younger and he always that. If anybody ever tried to come at me for anything I ever got held up. Mug or anything. Just give them whatever they want. Nothing matters because everything can be replaced except for your life. We cannot replace you so to me. It was always so strange that he would do something over his possessions right so he would defend. And that's when I realized that it had nothing to do with that he he probably thought they were hurting my mom or thought something had happened to her when they hit over the head and it is easier or something like that and then and then he tried to do something but. I think it wasn't until he. He thought that maybe either live for endanger. But other than that. That's all I can come up with because I don't know who would want to hurt them. I just think that somebody got greedy. I think this was probably a a drug addicts looking for an expert Saint. He's being questioned in an interrogation room. But meanwhile the crime scene is being processed so the friends tax are going over everything and according to court documents quote when the first responders arrived they did not encounter the traditional hallmarks of a home invasion or burglary. There were no signs of forced entry. All the doors and windows were intact. This thing about there being no force entries interesting so there's a couple of things I want to talk about here. And this is something they kind of hang their hats on First of all if Herman Jim's brother was able to enter so easily through the garage presumably Intruder could've as well and not only that so there are a lot of crime scene photos available online. And did they say there's no forced entry but if you look at the back door of this home in these photos it looks like this door was pried open personally so I don't know where they get this but also many many many suburban areas people leave side doors. Open people leave windows in? It's possible to get and out of the house without leaving like a destructive obvious. Sign that you broke in but neither here nor there but court documents also note that no personal property appeared to be missing valuables were untouched and in plain view in dresser drawers were only slightly opened their contents undisturbed but according to Liz Jim and sandys daughter things were stolen from the home. Many things many many many things and she pointed all of that out and she was not listened to so I called the police and I asked if they wanted to speak to me because I used be a really big true crime fan and no I knew kind of what you know how everything played out when something like this happened or at least I thought and then they asked me to go to the home walk through it and make a list of any items that I thought were missing so I got drought in Austin. I went to the house to do just that and when I get there that the whole room had already been taken apart where Where everything had happened. It had been cleaned and everything. So what was that was in the living room? I mean everything was a mess. It was really hard to tell what had happened there. So I'm looking around and I go into the garage and I automatically noticed several Pulitzer messing the larger tools that he had. My Dad really liked woodworking. And so he. Had you know a lot of really nice tools to do that was but nothing was in there so I went to his filing cabinet because he took meticulous of everything. And I'm so thankful that for that because that made handling all of this so much easier anyway I went back there and I grabbed the manuals for the tools like wrestling and making notice some other things and I'm in the garage and I see this black and green backpack on floor and so I walk up to it and I see that it got my mom's xbox in it and I call them and I tell them you know there's a back year that has stuff in it. I don't think my parents would have left here and I see two other back and they're both still on the shelves and one on the floor of the garage and they're still halfway filled with random. Bits and bobs from the garage and the police told me that my God probably did that to transport tool somewhere or that. He probably got rid of the tools because they don't see where they could in the garage. Okay well they were here before these manuals making this up you know. Wh Why did you ask me to do this anyway? So they currently get the they only get one of the backpacks say they decided the other two were my dad's doing for whatever reason they take the one backpack They take some pictures of it. Whatever and they leave and the funny thing about that is they later. Tried to blame it on me and say I planted that there to make them look incompetent or to help my mom however that might help stop how that's basically it started and once that started happening. I knew that this wasn't this wasn't going to be. You know a simple shutting in case they weren't actually going to try to do any work you know. This was first show and they figured out who they wanted to dependent on how their job was going to be made easy and they just went with that. Meanwhile gyms autopsy had been conducted. He'd been stabbed staggering thirty one times to his hands and chest all to the front of his body. None on the back side of his body. There was a particularly deep laceration to an artery near his right thumb which had nearly come off during the confrontation and that was likely caused a lot of the blood. Splatter in the closet were. Jim was found so in talking to Liz. I actually learned that all the reporting says that it was thirty one stab wounds but she clarified that. Actually he'd only been truly stabbed seven times and the rest of the lacerations were defensive. Wounds and they were More shallow cuts. There are no ligature marks or images around. Jim's ankles. Were the telephone cords. Had been tied so all. This is happening news of what had happened at the House of the Melgar's started to spread and it was hard to miss the fact that something big was happening in their neighborhood. The coldest weather home was had been cordoned off and friends and neighbors gathered and traded pieces of information that they'd been able to glean from other neighbors. It was like a game of telephone. Most wonder the impression that deadly home invasion had occurred at their house. So those in the same neighborhood. Were fearful that this happen to them as well so the installed security cameras and they got floodlights and they're taking all these extra precautions at every turn they could right and so the police of course as they threatened to do in interrogation they were going to speak to neighbors they were. GonNa speak to every family member they were going to speak to everybody who Sandra and Jim new so what they heard were was that the Melgar's were quiet. They kept themselves. They had regular comings and goings. Their lives presented nothing out of the ordinary at a glance. The also asked neighbors if they had seen or heard anything. Odd on the night of the murder had occurred in one neighbor said he was in his garage working on a project until one. Am and never heard a sound and this is worth discussing because forget who did it. It did happen. Forget who did it right? Somebody did it. Jim didn't hurt himself but one. Am is when it would have happened in this neighborhood. Nothing so this also proves nothing you know. I just think it's odd that you wouldn't have heard anything but yeah you kinda proves nothing either way like trying to say it was her. If it was a home invasion there is that that's a whole leads. Nothing if you want to treat yourself and I think that you should because you deserve it. You should check out. 'cause box caused boxes. A quarterly subscription box curated for women by women and it's filled with all sorts of as in critics and brands. That are ethical sustainable. An have a positive mission to give back and make the world better. Every caused box is limited edition and comes six to eight full sized products and you can get everything from skincare and jewelry to housewares and accessories. This caused box is amazing. It comes with a cute little Bento. 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D. R. E. A. DOT COM physical Dr- com and. Add a tux touch of luxury to your home care. So Abby is in this information seeking phase of course they WANNA know about sandy and Jim's relationship. What kind of relationship did they have? You know when I was growing up. I didn't see a lot of PDA. My God wasn't like that you know he didn't. He didn't show that much at least one around me but then after all of this happened and I started hearing her friends talk about her relationship to each other even when they didn't know that I was around like that I could hear what they were saying. I realize how much romantic my dad was. And it makes me ache even more for my mom that she lost that and I just. I don't know I get all emotional hair but guess you see. It really wasn't so is he? So after. The seamless process for evidence were tested. And here's the culmination of what they found. There was no physical evidence directly implicating connecting sandy to the murder of her husband. There was none of Jim's blood on Sandy. There was no blood on. Sandy's close gyms. Dna wasn't under Sandy's fingernails and Sandy's DNA wasn't under chimps. In addition quote. According to court documents there was no evidence of blood. Transfer with removing bloody clothing or gloves chemical processing established. There was no attempt by Sandy to clean the sinks shower Jacuzzi. According to court documents is that we're hoping that's what they did. They checked the drains and all that but there was DNA found at the scene. That didn't match sandy or Jim. Male and female DNA not belonging to milkers was found in several key areas. There was also known male. Tna on the drawer handles in the master bedroom it seems so. This evidence was completely ignored just because it didn't fit the police narrowed so it really seems like from the moment. The police had sandy in the interrogation room. They focus their attention and investigation squarely on her. But there were other leads. That could have been looked into at least a suspect with a history of violence. Drug charges and robbery was reported to the police by one of the local news crews as behaving strangely at the crime scene that evening right and we knew that people who do things like this do like to hover around the crime to see the aftermath. So that's Yeah Ray where revisit the crime scene right so? The police do investigate the suspect but they do so by leaving business card of his door after two failed attempts to reach him. And that's where this investigation ended. That's it that's all they ever did and there was also a similar home invasion. That was carried out in the surrounding area with nearly identical Mo and it was never investigated for possible connections at all right and so relatively speaking. There was very little forensic testing carried out on this crime scene in they basically cherry-picked what detest in what take seriously for example blood photographed on the safe handle and this was a safe found next. Jim's body in his closet it was not processed or collected despite the police telling the family the contrary so the family had seen mistake had seen these smears of blood on it and had seen it there are prints on it and they said to the police over and over like you're testing that right. I mean these prints this blood. We should know who's it is. They were appeased. They were placated. Yes yes yes for testing but that never actually happened So the safe was right next to my dad when they kept it in a closet and he died on his car and the keys were usually kept in the keyhole of the safe. Because it was one of those digital keyboards where you put your code. And then if you've got the right code then you unlock the key and then you open. Let's say that you couldn't just enter the code and not have the key and you couldn't just use the key without the code in the pictures you see next to my dad and you see the keys. Who are so. I think somebody probably got sick of waiting or whatever they were doing. Whatever set them off and then once they killed him. They tried to use just the keys at the safe and when they didn't work they just throw them on the ground. 'cause there's no reason for them to be on the ground like that But there was also this of blood on the handle which I hadn't noticed until I got the safe to my house and in Texas and that's what I noticed the blood so I contacted the police and I you know awesome if they had processed the safe and they or if I should you know save it for them to come and get it since they missed the backpack as well and they told me they hit already processed. It was no big deal. Just CLEAN THE SAFE. Not a big deal okay. So I took him pictures and I asked my husband and Kleenex. I WANNA touch. It was too hard for me to deal with in court. I find out it was never process. Nobody even bothered they. Just lie to me. I I guess so that they wouldn't have to do more work. I don't know laziness either way they lie to me and told me I could clean it. Which is what happened. So that's gone. Yeah that was really difficult and when they asked the CSI why they hadn't process it they thought it would have just come back to my mom. Anyway which is funny so she didn't have any blood or cuts on her. Then there was the male and female. Dna Not belong to the Melgar's found in several key areas yet. This evidence was ignored as it did not fit the polices narrative and we want to remind you that sandy had no cuts no wounds no bruising that would come from beating and stabbing a larger adult to death in contrast. Jim Sustained numerous bruises. Oliver's body abrasions and catastrophic damage to organs that would indicate a violent struggle and this includes fracturing both I sockets and to other locations of Jim Skull and a woman of her size remember with her health. Issues would surely seem incapable of inflicting. I think it's worth discussing this. Just I think that's the most fascinating part of this case is they've made it a point in the medical examiner said this. All of his wounds were to the front of his body in this means right to the front of his body there on his wrists there on his hands on his chest or on his face torso that means he was not caught off guard. It's not like he has a giant wounded. The back thinking somebody smaller than him couldn't capacity him with a sneak attack. He was confronted head on and the idea that sandy has no wounds at all. Not a speck of blood on her not is not a scratch on her is immediately for me. I'm just like how do you think it's her knowing how. How sort of frail she is. And I don't mean that rude way but double hip replacement prosthesis of the hips lupus rheumatoid arthritis walks with a cane. It's like how did she confront hypothetically if this theory is what we're going west. How does she confront Jim overpower him? End Not get a single cut or bruise or scrape on her. You're saying that Sandy did this somehow. Without getting a single wound the prosecutor tried to say she like came up behind and supply. Ten like cut flipped his next from behind something crazy like that and then he turned around and loved her too much to put his hands on her so basically he just let my mom stabbed him to death which to me is ridiculous. It's just talking ridiculous. Well it was interesting too because I was looking at pictures from the crime scene. And there's pictures of her hands and looks like her hands had just gotten manicured like they chip on her nails. They were pristine way better than my manicures in quarantine right now like her hands were they were spotless. So I mean and we've talked about the fact that you know stabbing somebody is not easy. Let alone the amount of times that he was stopped. So this is not like a delicate crime or even shooting. Somebody could have been easy enough where it wouldn't create that many conclusions on your own body so it's just it's very hard to believe and as a woman just just seems difficult. It's really leaning more towards that that a it's almost as if these investigators watched a lot of true crime and thought you know what the spouse had to do it. The fact that they They went they jumped to that. Even though you often look for for physical evidence and there's so many things going against this person doing it not to mention motive. We don't have any motive. We don't have any The the means where are the means of of how she would? Actually do this physically. The only thing there is opportunity you know. The police ended up processing the scene. And we don't really know where their heads at because you have to know at this point. Listen Sandy are just completely in the dark. Sandy'S BEEN QUESTIONED INTERROGATED. A couple times lists has talked to detectives a couple times but then they sort of ice them out in not set their sort of just waiting like what is next. Are you gonNA catch the person who did this and expected to be kept posted or at least in the loop in terms of the status of investigation? But that did not happen so I. I'm not sure exactly what was done in that time. That no-one with question no files wherever requested from adopter from anybody. We're just waiting in limbo and I think this pace pass through to prosecutors hands until finally landing on the case on the desk of the one that we finally ended up with but We always got the feeling that this was just kind of being passed on or somebody was waiting for something that nobody actually wanted to take this to trial because it was such a bad case against my mom and then a year and a half past when Liz in San Diego surprise but my mom was living with my husband and I had just had my daughter and I just finished dropping him off at the airport and I came home. And you know we have mailboxes letter at the front of the neighborhood so I stopped to check it. Open the door. It had been jammed filled with fliers from Houston area lawyers. That wanted our business for our upcoming trial or for the case against us. And that's when I pulled out my son and looked up her name the Harris County district clerk website and saw that she had been charged with my dad's murder. That's it that's how we found out so I went home and I had to wake her up and tell her like eight thirty in the morning and tell her what she needs to call the lawyer and she just couldn't believe it she was just she just looks dumbfounded and I felt the same way. But you know it was like come on. We gotta get moving. We used to call her lawyer. We need to figure this there. She went and purchased self-esteem never was never arrested. Nobody ever called her. Let her know that they were going to be charging her that there was an arrest or a wine out. Nothing like that we. We were all completely shock especially her because I mean you would think that when someone is charged with murder that they're police usually come their house and put them in prison so they don't go somebody else but I mean. I'm not sure why they do that or even. Let us know that that was going to be happening. Then on top of everything else. The lead detective. Who Was Sean Rubin Carousel? He was forced to resign two years after the crime to to forging search warrants and a different murder investigation but when his office was cleared out. Evidence from the Melker case was found untested an incorrectly stored in a filing cabinet in his office. That's crazy Dan so it's like again. This is one of the big problems in this case. They Cherry picked what to test so they would find this third party. Dna that was untested and didn't align with anyone in this household in that was something they ignored and certain tests in certain evidence. They're like hey we'll document this or whatever but we're going to squirrel away and pretended didn't happen in. This is an example of that. It's like I don't know why there were out for Sandy. Whether they wrote for her not a fair trial means all the cards on the table. Why are you hiding stuff in a filing cabinet two years later we're finding it? Then the evidence itself is basically unusable chain of custody. Can't reproved it wasn't stored properly. If it's organic evidence like DNA skin touched in a WHO knows useless? It's been a filing cabinet for two years. Sandy's trial began on August ninth of two thousand seventeen. She was now fifty seven years. Old Daughter. Lives was the testifying witness as she was not allowed to sit through and observed the entire trial. We were ready to get this over work. We figured the time we lay our our case out there. Everyone's going to see for what it is. And they're gonNA they're gonNA come back with her being not guilty. Because that's the most I mean to me. It seems onerous but I guess I had too much face. The defense opened by criticizing homicide detectives as biased in closed minded for cutting corners in this investigation. So defense attorney Mac. Seacrest said to Harris County Sheriff's Detectives Interrogated Sandy Wall. She was hysterical after the death of her husband. They then taunted her for not helping Jim as he was being brutally stabbed quote. These two detectives made up their minds within two hours of getting to the scene. Then the marshal the evidence around their theory the prosecution opened with prosecutor. Colleen Barnett telling the jury that Sandra Melgar came under suspicion after. She gave conflicting accounts of what happened that night. Asser story quote unquote evolved while talking to the police and the prosecutor said. I don't know that I have motive here but there's no way anything else happened. She just brutally murdered her husband. So this is the prosecution's theory about how this all played. They claim that sandy had Lord Jim into letting her tie his legs with telephone cord. Perhaps as some sort of sex game and then taken him by surprise using a large kitchen knife to stab him to death. So they're using this court theory as a means to explain how someone as frail is. Sandy was able to overpower and incapacitate him because remember all of his wounds or to the front of Jim's body this is not a sneak attack from behind. He had all of those defensive wounds on his wrists right so that's not all the medical examiner testified and they said that on Jim's ankles there are no markings that would be expected from these telephone. Cords if Jim had still been alive and moving especially considering that he was naked in the cords were directly in contact with the skin so emmy pine that the telephone courts had been tied around. Jim's ankles after JIM had already died. So this completely contradicts the prosecution Syria about Sandy. Pulled this off. Remember Double Hip Replacement Rheumatoid Arthritis walking with a cane. If if these courts did not cause any impressions on his ankles at all it means if they happen to post mortem how do they explain how? Sandy incapacitated him how she had the opportunity to attack him with a knife and the prosecution. Serey directly contradicts. The EMMYS findings about these Lakers on Jim's ankles so the defense challenge the jury to explain how sandy would have no cuts no wounds and no bruising that would come from beating and stabbing a larger adult to death in contrast. Jim Sustained numerous bruises all over his body. Abrasions and catastrophic damage to organs that will indicate a violent struggle and again this includes fracturing both. I sockets and to other locations of Jim Skull it was a lot. And that's that a woman of her size and with her health issues which surely be incapable of inflicting so as far as the prosecution's theory on motive goes they alleged in in. You know in many many interviews. Coleen Barnett the prosecutor has said. I don't really have motive in this case. So we have to take take that we've to start there but with a could muster and if they had to come up with something they figured that sandy in their theory wanted a divorce but she feared being shunned by her fellow. Jehovah's Witnesses so Jehovah's Witnesses if you don't know are not allowed to divorce unless the spouse has committed adultery which. Jim had not done this theory. Liz says is just completely fabricated and her parents had truly a wonderful marriage and when he was in at work he was carrying from my mom. Whatever she may need and not only that you know. He was the breadwinner and he was the one that took care of the home and maintained it and it was his health insurance. That you know kept US afloat. you know. We were very close and and things were great. I mean he always took care of me and my mom a one time. He overheard me tell. My boyfriend has shut up or that. He was stupid or something like that. You know we were joking around. But he told me that I shouldn't joke that way. Because you slowly start to lose respect and eventually crosses over into your arguments and you know. That's not a very dangerous precedent to set and it's not something that you even want to entertain. It's better to just completely. You know to always be respectful. Always have respectful conversation if you don't agree with each other there's no reason to raise your voice or yell and I still miserably at these things in my own relationship so even practice what they preach for thirty two years. Is You know. I hope that I can continue to have such a strong and healthy marriage like like they had so sandy's defense painted a picture of this happily married couple. They were best friends. They were high school sweethearts and no one knew the couple to be a couple that would fight the prosecution that attempted to explain exactly the steps that sandy took to execute her plan quote unquote plant. The prosecution proposed that Sandy Killed Jim in the master bedroom. And then wash yourself off in the master bathroom. Clean that sandy left the garage door open on purpose that she could be quote unquote rescued by her brother-in-law Herman the following day and that she knew they were coming in this part of her plan and she'd invited them over this day for this purpose so while we're on the subject of Herman who remember is Jim's brother Sandy brother-in-law. What do they think so they would have kind of the most insight as far as the authenticity of? Sandy's reaction of finding sandy tied up. Do they pick up on anything strange when they walk into the House that day so the family that found my mom and dad that night or that they were my dad's brother the brother's wife and their daughters And they have been incredibly supportive? They're always checking up on us. You know we're here. They need is we need them. And they've always been very vocal about their support and reassuring to my mom that you know. There's no way that that she did this and they just they WANNA help in any way they can. Yeah he was there. He found him he he was there before anybody else got there and I feel like is he felt like something didn't add up he would say so and I know my cousins would definitely. My Dad always emphasize importance on family and trusting each other. And you know sticking together because nobody else would have the way families would. He was As we found out after he passed away he was including that held the family together. The yeah it was because the him that we had such a nice and we live I always I can still hear him always saying about all he ever wanted for us to have an I lies and have the things you didn't have as a kid and you know he just wanted my mom and be happy so to be clear. Herman had never doubted his sister-in-law's innocence. And he was there and saw sandy's organic reaction and he believes her fully. Okay then the subject and court shifted to the robbery aspect of the case so clearly the prosecution is claiming that this scene has been staged and they theorized that sandy stage the crime scene and as the appearance of a home invasion. Barnett argued that the drawers were actually neatly arranged. They weren't dumped. But Sandy's defense attorneys clap back and so that there were many items of value removed from the House as proven by Liz's account as well and the defense played out how sandy's hands were completely clean and this is not only of scratches or wounds but also of clean of blood and like we said before. She didn't even have as much as a chipped or broken nail and in response. The prosecution pointed out a cloudy. Fingernail ON SANDY'S RIGHT HAND. And they said that this is proof that she had used cleaning solution to clean up evidence at the scene which is be biggest reach another reach that region. Cloudy fingernail means. She used this cleaning solution even though they couldn't find evidence of that anywhere else so now one of the first things and one of the most glaring things about this case that I'm sure many people have taken note of as you've explained. The circumstances is that when sandy was found there was a chair under the knob keeping her locked in this closet and this is stuff we see in movies right. We see cheer under a KNOB. Get locked into a closet or how you get locked into somewhere. That doesn't have a lock on the door to me. It seems impossible for someone to lock themselves in a closet. This way. How do you wedge a chair under knob of closet door that you're locked in well the prosecution? Of course. I'm sure this is one of the biggest obstacles they had to take on but they decided they were going to come up with an explanation so in court? They had an in court demonstration and the prosecution showed how sandy could hypothetically tighter south up and they use a video exhibit to demonstrate this. They had investigator pretending to be Sandy. Quote Unquote Lock himself in the bathroom and wedges share under the outside door handle using a pillow sham to do it. The person in this video began by entering the closet placing a pillow sham on the bathroom floor with one under the pillow sham inside the closet in the other end outside the closet under the back two legs of the chair. So if you're picturing this. Imagine the space under the door. The pillow sham halfway in the closet halfway in the bathroom the legs of the chair of the back to legs are on the sham. Right then the person closes the closet door so that only crack remains open. They extend their hand through the CROCK. And Lean the back of the chair under the outside door handle. So the chair was tilted at an angle directly under the KNOB and so the two front legs were off the ground. Then the investigator brings his hand back inside the closet. Pulls on the end of the pillow sham from under the door and suddenly this polling motion drags Char closer to the frame of the closet and once the door shuts completely the chair becomes wedge securely under the handle as had been placed there deliberately by someone on the outside of the door so this recreation. You have to know and I think this is a fascinating topic in this story. In the story they found the ship. They found a pillow case in the closet. And that's what inspired this theory right so in in there was a rip onto the pillowcase. So Sandra's hands and feet had been bound by like scarves and pieces of cloth and things like that. And they found this ripped pillow sham in the closet with her and suddenly they derived their theory and I think brings have a bigger conversation though. Were we saw this in the staircase right where this guy who who basically came up with these blood evidence experiment expert witness for the prosecution right and his experiments quote ended up being the reason? Why Michael Peterson God new trial? Because this whole business of paid or hired expert. Witnesses is very suspect and I really do feel like this is one of those situations where we saw this in in a staircase where there's video evidence of them like over and over trying to get the exact result they want and once they get it. They're all cheering and La like happy because they finally got the exact blood spattered pattern. They're trying to achieve okay so here. I feel like the same thing happened. How do we explain these things in the closet? Let's come up with a theory about how she was able to do this. And of course if you try hard enough if you're Harry Houdini investigator. You're going to be able to figure out how to do it in which this really reminds me of like. You're you're explaining this whole thing of like how they're trying to do. It reminds me of watching like a stupid video on Barstool sports. If somebody making like a long distance beer pong cup where it's like yeah labyrinth. Show the one time that you do this crazy thing. But how many times have you tried to do it? How many different ways did you try to do it? And how many times do you film it like? Of course somebody can do anything if you try hard enough and try enough times so just because you are there some wild way to possibly do it with these random things that you found in your closet doesn't mean that the person did it so many of the theories and evidence in this trial was a reach so the defense then shifted attention to the mishandling of the evidence. The cops tunnel vision their failure to properly investigate any other leads the fact that the evidence was handled by an unethical detective who was fired altering dates on warrants all of that and he's also detective who hid evidence in a filing cabinet office. That wasn't found until two years after the murder. They noted how the Police Cherry picked which evidence attests for DNA and which not to use. Sandy's defense claimed that she got sucked into this by a couple of cowboys sheriff's office who came up some theories and game over and after each side presented closing arguments. The jury went in to deliberation. And when Liz was in the courtroom attending be verdict phase of the trial she was struggling to read expressions on the jurors face to try to get an idea of what the outcome was going to be. Remain came back. We realized to go in there and yet they were crying and some wouldn't even look at us. They would even make contact. I contact and I I knew then that would. It wasn't going to be good so the jury came back with a verdict guilty. Liz and sandy were floored. Sandy was sentenced twenty seven years for the murder of Jim. Her husband and so as you can imagine devastating. Just it's crazy to think that if you fit the bill. And they don't feel like doing all. The LEGWORK can easily go to prison for something that you had absolutely no involvement in I'm still completely shocked at how despite having no other. Dna there and other fingerprints or other. I know that there was a male. Dna on somewhere And yet they still convicted my mom I just. It boggles my mind at how how easily this happened. And I'm sure that there are a lot more people out there that just don't have the same boys and they don't have the same platform to say. You know I should not be in here. I'm innocent people say that but I think that Yeah this happens much more than we realize only said I only want justice for my dad. I just want answers and whatever justice for him is true. Absolutely this. We'll be the right thing for everybody and I just hope that we're not fighting too much longer for it. Where things now. Sandy filed an appeal but her conviction was upheld. But then Sandy's case caught the attention of attorney Kathleen Zellner. Who is from making murderer season two? She's a big deal. Zellner reevaluate and doing more DNA testing to exonerate. Sandy and Taylor has helped exonerate nineteen people who were wrongfully convicted. And she believes fully and Sandy's innocence so the fact that Kathleen Zellner is helping with Cindy's case now is a relief and there is hope that sandy will someday be exonerated. But until then. Sandy remains incarcerated. And it's been a really tough pill to swallow. I think that's the perfect description. Forward is kind kinda. Put All your resources into you. Know the one person. I have left in trying to make sure that they're okay. You know I can't even have to Nelson's happen and there are times where I feel answer that I am not actually actively working on the case or working to do something to help my mom. It's just finding the right way to live and finding the balance and I feel like we're just kind of struggling and Klein our way back to some normal someone for life and we'll ever get there but you know bringing my mom home and finding out who did this to see an asshole the best way to start it another travesty in this case is certainly the fact that Liz hasn't even have the opportunity degree for father properly because she had to jump into action for her mom immediately. We we haven't had a chance to warn a home rehab. His Service of twenty nine th of December. I remember calling in store because I needed close to where how many anything appropriate. I just come in like closed but I had my bag in England and I remember going through the mall and just like seeing people walking by me and thinking like how can be shopping and going about your lies like I just get so angry because all these people could be fine and my whole world is just been destroyed and it was just this anger that I felt that you know that we had to feel this way and whoever did this was still out there to do this to whoever whoever else they felt like doing now to you know there hasn't been much time. Just stop and smell the roses. There's always been something a do or some fight to have and it's just I'm I don't think we can never actually mourn his loss until until we know who actually did this and my mom is home and the right person is behind bars It's hard for me to talk about my dad. I just wish that he could be here to see my kids because I know that he would have given them. You know the sun and moon if they wanted him to would have done anything for for them and It just it tells me that he's never going to get to see that and he's never going to get to see who I became or what we've accomplished and I just didn't killed me that he's never going to have another year with my long sandy's conviction was controversial. Her and Jim's family and friends have stood by her through and through and continue to maintain her innocence. So Sandy's conducted just one interview from behind bars. So you're Sandy. They got it wrong. Got It completely wrong. You say you're blacked out. At the moment your husband was being murdered. People watching might think that sounds so convenient. Yeah it's not like oh I have seizures and I had a lump in my head so I was hit and then went into seizure more than likely actually see. That's how it felt like when I woke up. Sandra did you kill your husband. I did not kill Spin and you have grandkids and my grandbabies missing out on I know I know that really hurts me. I miss them so much. I'm just GONNA keep fighting this until I oughta here. I just want to commend leads for continuing to fight. Tirelessly for what she believes in. So if you're as moved by this case by this story as we are definitely check out was his website. Free Sandy Malger DOT COM. And they're they're selling some awesome t shirts that say in Zellner. We trust free. Sandy Melgar and I'm going to buy one of these here. You can also make a donation that will go towards additional. Dna testing the could aid pain. Sandy's exoneration so once more lays we're thinking about you and thank you for joining us. If anybody out there has a story they would like to tell. Please email us. Hello at the first degree. Podcast DOT COM. You can follow us on instagram. At the first degree out Alexis linkletter at Billie Jensen. At Jack Vanik. Please join our facebook. Group searched the first degree on your facebook search bar. We're talking true crime all the time and grab some merch while you're at it and stick around because we're GONNA kill some time. Ed Remember only you can prevent serial killers. Keep your friends close but not close. Rescue dog okay. Thank you bye sources for today's episode. Include the Houston Chronicle. Abc News CBS News Court documents the Free Sandy malger website and as always our agree guest is always our largest source though. We're apart days were sharing more and GEICO would just like to say thanks. Thanks for sharing. Your savage dance moves. Thanks for sharing your. Diy Haircut fails thanks for sharing your inner lip sing star. 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This is all those real moments you talk about with your family and friends ever wonder what else life has to offer. Bring your curious appetite. And let's do life together. Subscribe now at Apple podcasts. Spotify and PODCAST ONE DOT COM. Okay welcome to another episode of killing time you know. I'm really sick of recording distantly from you is because what does it taken us. A thirty minutes to try to set up our audio. We're doing killing time before the actual episode today and it's been a pain in my ass. You know what I will say though that between all of the eating and drinking that we do normally when we are sitting down and recording together that usually takes five hours in this takes to know it usually takes us elise. Six to eight hours Roach allies. We end up ordering pizza and we make drinks and we gossip and we talk about like all the other podcasters. No offence guys. We talk about everything and we just sort of download on life does because last time now but at least that also counted sort of heinous rise. Mine yes molly. We did it tickle difficulties. I understand what you're saying. Yeah you guys are two of my best ease and it was an excuse to I mean. My life used to be so busy that I didn't have time to really hanging out with friends so it was kind of an excuse for us to socialize. And hang out all the same time being productive. We'll do a podcast together. Because we both are workaholics. And the only way we'd get to bond as much as we is if we worked together that is true. I mean that's really. We really found the key to life by doing that but there was a time. There was just like a certain time. We're during our podcast at number one. They were the longest they've ever been so the episodes were like an hour and a half long but then also for some reason or like procrastination and our hangs and then are drinking habits and then the food like the whole process took at least six hours for an hour and a half podcasts. I knew if I was coming over four. I was leaving until eleven pm which is which is four. Am for most people because check goes to bed at usually eight PM. You is. I tell you about a really embarrassing nickname that I've been given during quarantine by my boyfriend. Jared yes please so as you know I go to bed extremely early. I don't like I don't like being out after the sun goes down. I like to be in bed by ten PM and I've been quarantined with. This is the case. I've been staying up a little bit later. I feel very reckless. Like sometimes stay up until like eleven PM. But I've been staying with my parents in Orange County and jared's been here and they collectively love to make fun of me like and so they've been calling me grandma. My mother has been calling me grandma. 'cause I like to go to bed at ten PM and then also I've been eating not the best foods that have given me gas burping gas and they have called me the nickname of gase grandma you that nickname. That is my new nickname. All right so merch guess who wants to wear that. Gase GRANDMA Murphy. You'd be surprised there stands out there though mortified you guys you know maybe somebody like really resonates with that by the way. Alexis hates any sort of bodily function or anything like that. So we're all that's not humor. That was the nickname that I've been given against against my will. I don't WanNa take but now it is sometimes given a nickname that you don't want and then you just embrace it like I did with the tank billy. I was like drunk. Us convinced me to get a tank tattooed on my body. And I'm still WanNa do it somehow? Have we explained to our listeners with the tank is I can't remember if we have not no but I'll start so it originally started because I can drink more than anyone. Anybody in not really seem drunk at all or act drunk or be drunk really. I mean I seem just pretty much fine fact I do my best work under the influence but anyways so then it started. The tank started to transcend justice one area in my life. Drinking SORTA embody all that I am and my perseverance. And My Sadness that I've overcome and all sorts. So it's a beacon of hope in a dark dark pandemic world so I to a little tiny tiny tank tattooed on my somewhere. I Love I love the idea of a tiny tank because it kind of feminizing the idea of a very masculine nickname of the tank. But my favorite thing short and make it work for me. We'll make it cute but my favorite thing is you just got an amazing opportunity in your professional life. And jared deny. Had you flowers to congratulate you an in the note of the flowers it said you know. Congratulations we love you so much. Where so we can't wait. Wait to see how far the tank will go. And I you posted on instagram. I reposted it and I had so many questions being like. Oh what is the tank shark tank? Did she likeness? Did she sell an invention shark tank? No a lot of people who were congrats on the tank. I'm like thank you deserve. Congratulations but they think the tank is the project. But it's not new ways anyway gives the project you know you're an ongoing project. We're going to talk about Jacqueline now. Because it was her birthday a couple days ago and we had a very exciting birthday party day. We did. Jared you've forgot to invite billy to zoom. I know he's so four my birthday. I hate birthdays. I always try to go to another country for my birthday. But jared knew how he needed to make special or else. I would spiral into a depression. So he set up this amazing Imo Birthday Party with all of my friends. Everybody dressed up and made their zoom pictures pictures of me and it was so cute all of my best friends but then he failed to invite billy me so and the weird thing is is that. I sort of knew that it was happening but I didn't really know what was happening but I was. I was dressed up in all of my email. Glory with my my lighter had everything and my hair swooped over one. I just alone in my house with a single black balloon. Billy you could do such a good enough to. How long has your hair right now? Can IT FIT over your it? Probably could I'll send you pictures of when my hair was over my I before was a thing and learn exactly It was right about the time they actually before Jack was born. There was eighty seven. Eighty seven eighty seven. Jack was born depending on what monther I might have been a fetus but Serjaki. She loves to drive home. That I'm like six months older but I'm not GonNa let it fly. This time alive barely barely. Maybe not only alive how deliberate. You're glimmer and maize I that's right. That's right glimmer you know. You're like a Vodka Soda Vodka Soda. I expect Tino. Maybe next time we record the podcast maybe dress up in yes costume background. I don't know some eyeliner would be nice. You know what I will welcome you to the Black Parade Nice Mike. I'm romance lyrics. I was offended but now knowing that you weren't invited me a little bit pissed it writing. I knew I knew the group Chat I was in and it was all the Gals. But then yeah. We got expanded to Kelsey into Mary. People that weren't in this chat. I was like oh I didn't know we could extent because the Chattanooga was called Jacks Birthday we later added you to it by route. Not Chat but I didn't know that anyone else's invited outside chats anyways. Well you know what I will say that the most email thing I could have done was stay at home and just cry it in your room by myself in the class. You weren't invited. Yes exactly so. I was more email than anybody else on that. Zoom call so in conclusion. You gave me the Best Gift Than Anybody could get hell. Yeah by email alone and crying by yourself. Thank you very gets philly. What was the thing that happened on your birthday Jack? I mean that was pretty amazing. You know I've been very emotionally fragile through this whole experience and I really miss other people so that was so sweet seeing all my friends do such a wonderful gesture that I just couldn't stop crying even though I was really happy but sad at the same time I mean other than that you know a Jordan. I did some wine dancing at night. That was really great. All I want is to convince him to do line dancing with me and like I said he's a really good line dancer and Dancer and and I'm very shocked because he's very dense and like he seems like the gravity is holding his body down she'd sink right to the bottom of the ocean about he would be an anchor like he's like a diving bell. The armor suits. He's just that would sink to the bottom. He's very dense like he's he's like he's he's stocky. He's thin issue knows building bad on it. He's like a tube steak that's heavy he'll you what's great is that jared has do you know and listen to this and there's nothing you can do but actually edit it out. He's my favorite part about. Jared body is that I got this pool like a blow up pool but the pool is just this. It's this rubber and it fills up with the water. You don't blow the actual pool up but you can smack the pool and it's this big dense like it's just like smack and you have to do it and I've realized that when I smack his belly it's the same dense irresistible smack that you guys ever does he like when you do that I don't think he did it first but I think now he's coming around to it because I'm slammed 'em slapping. I'm stop and debase all right. Well Billy different too because otherwise we might call it. I think we need to call it time. Death Eleven twenty.