Ep. 176: "What Is So Different About Americans? Are We Homicidal By Nature?" (w/ Tom Mauser, Columbine parent)
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I see them blue ink to myself own no sees guy. This is rumble. and i'm michael moore. Welcome everyone. it's been another one of those weaknesses coming back after launch april twentieth. Nineteen ninety nine into our production studio. We were making the very first season of our tv series. The awful truth and on the tv set in the sort of ping pong room that sat by the front door. The tv was on and there was the back then. The term that rarely was used breaking news. Columbine high littleton colorado on the edge of denver. It has been a horror that somebody or somebody's inside of columbine high school in littleton colorado had gone in and shot up the school and the police who of young swat teams and decided to not go into the school because they didn't know who or what was in there and what kind of firepower they had and so they remained outside for at least two hours. Maybe some say close to three Of course back then. We didn't have mass shootings like that was something that was fairly new. It's not that we hadn't had mass shootings in our history and it's not that There hasn't been a lot of death and destruction here in the united states of america over the years back in the late nineteen twenties near flint Small town bath michigan. Where the treasurer. The school board was upset with some other people on the board were accusing him of some sort of malfeasance with the funds so the school district at that time you had these one room schoolhouses except this was a very large school house. It was more than one room and all the students in the entire school district went to school in this one schoolhouse in bath and the very upset. Very angry treasurer of the school board had gone in there the night before planted a bunch of dynamite Throughout the basement of the school and the next morning once the kids and the teachers were all in their blood up. Sn nineteen twenties. Blew it up and Host fifty students and teachers died so that was the largest school massacre in one. Thousand nine hundred. Eighty seven in a bath michigan until Columbine columbine twelve students in one teacher im- plus the the two students who were the killers died there but the bath bath massacre had long been forgotten. My grandfather was present there in the hours after the massacre at bath michigan in nineteen twenty seven. He was a country. Doctor is what they call them back. Then it a year of medical school and they put a call out to all the doctors in the area to please come to bath. And so doctors from probably a fifty mile radius Got to bath michigan with a couple of hours. People suffering and children bleeding in addition to the thirty eight were killed There another fifty eight. Who were injured limbs hanging from young kids. You know there weren't ambulances like the way we know them now there was there. Weren't you know the nearest hospital back. Then was far away so that the the doctors arrived my grandfather ride arrived in saw. The horror of the scene immediately went to work Triaging and trying to who needed their help. I and his help and trying to you know a lot of them have blood out probably by then he did the best they could do to keep the others alive and to treat them with limited medicines and things that were available in nineteen twenty seven. And you know the story was passed down to us Screen kids And so we always kind of knew about this and never we drove through bathroom. Always kind of a as little kids. You kind of a creepy feeling but columbine happened on april twentieth nineteen ninety nine and it shocked the nation and it shocked the world. There had never been a shooting like this before at an american high school. Not to this level mean obviously been shootings at schools through the years. You know sadly but not this. Not this. And i stood there in front of the television set by the ping pong table in our production offices and i was just. I couldn't take my eyes off the tv. What kind of country do we live in. Who are we in my head these questions just to just burning through me sick sick sick of it. All i said to my fellow. He'll makers working on the show. The tv show standing there all of us watching this so we have to do something. I don't know what it is. I know we're in the middle of this tv show but we Wow yeah this is what we're capable of this kind of death and destruction. Of course we are and if we all don't rise up and do something about this. This is going to happen again and again and again. 'cause this is who we are really at our core violence guns. It's just usually where you still doing it to other people whether it's the massacre of native peoples to take over this land the violence against africans forcing them to come here in chains and build this country us on our. We had a long long history of this and of invading other countries. Who weren't doing our will. I said i don't know. I know we gotta get to work here today. But we've got to do something about this. And i called up the canadian producers of the show One of whom was having to having is going to be in new york a couple of days and made a plan to have launched with them and sat down with them on the corner of eighty fifth and broadway in new york city. And i said listen. I know we're we're in the middle of this tv series. Put this this is this is. We have to stop this right now. If the nip this right in the bud we need to make a movie. I don't know what's going to say. You're do or be or whatever but in before i got the next sentence automatically goes done. We'll fund it. Michael donovan this guy. From nova scotia will fund it. And he told me how you know. Obviously canadians have been watching us for a long time. Quite figuring out why we are the way we are and i thanked him and Very quickly we got to work on a film that would take three years to make because in the middle of nine eleven happened. We had to do our series for the two years we were contracted to do it. We also spent decent amount of time in the denver area over that over those years filming interviewing talking to people running into marilyn manson. Who was blamed for these kids committing this atrocity and So i got a lot of people. In denver in littleton. Rami area really saw what they the pain that he went through. We're still going through in as we know now The mass killings continued in the years after most notably at the multiplex the movie theater in aurora Which is littleton is sort of south south south suburb of denver words to the To the east but all around each other all kind of interconnected there in then and then this week. A monday in the king super has show p ear market. La's make a market. it's got a pharmacy. it's got a starbucks. It's kind of grocery store all this everything. Andy young man. Twenty one years old comes in and not so much spraying bullets but in a very targeted way starting out in the parking lot just starts killing people. He goes to the wine of people that are lining up to. Kobe shot their vaccine at the pharmacy inside the market and goes right to the front of the line and kills the woman and said the front of the line and continues his rampage now throughout the store. Ten people dead but he doesn't i he's in a bit a little bit of a gun shootout with the police when they when they got there in. The first officer of course was killed. God bless him just ran right in to try and save lives lost his on but they didn't kill him i think they sh- there was a bullet that went through his leg. Didn't hit anything serious. And they took them out. Put him in the ambulance to the hospital. Arrested him and here. We are once again. My friends just seven days before this guy goes in to three different spas in the atlanta and kills eight people six of them asian women aged americans and again he is not killed. He's captured but what hasn't really been covered much. I'm only. I've only really seen it on. Cnn is the fact that in the seven days between atlanta in boulder. There were a total of seven mass shootings. We call a mass shootings defined by law enforcement the Shooting four or more people not not counting the perpetrator so for people are shot and injured or killed that makes. That's the definition of person. That's a mass lane. We've had seven of those in seven days between atlanta and boulder. That's who we are. All over the country. Philly san francisco there was one down in orlando violence. We are such violent people. And yet i just want to say this because in making bowling for columbine we decided that of course the solution to all this is going to be gun control and if we just have more loss trying to limit the guns being in the hands of the wrong people. That would fix our problem. That's how we started out making the film and we thought it'd be interesting to go to canada. Having grown up on the border in michigan with the canadians wondering why didn't they have the same problem we have and so There's a there's an office in ottawa. that's their capital. called canada's statistics or statistics canada. I forget it. I know it's in english or french. One we're comes before the other there. We discovered a very interesting statistic about the canadians. They're seven million guns in canada over thirty million people with seven million. That's i mean that's a it's a hell of a ratio. I mean it's that quite ours. We're usually one to one here. You know if we have three hundred million people they think there's about three hundred million guns in the country. Now we have three hundred and thirty million and they're saying there's three hundred and fifty million guns in this country but seven million guns in canada when you think about that. They're i think. The statistics said that there were approximately eight million households in canada. That's almost a gun per household if you averaged it out that way and we couldn't believe it we like you know. I thought they had gun control up here. Of course it was explained to us that hunting is the number one sport in canada. More people participate hunting them. Play hockey really. Our minds are being blown by this right. We can't even believe what we're hearing and with all these guns and yes they have. They have good gun. Laws you. It's very hard to get a handgun in canada. You can go to a sporting range and shoot handguns. The you can use it there for the afternoon but very hard to get a handgun but hunting rifles. You know you still have to register it and you have to go through if to prove you know how to use it. You've got to commit to locking it up so the kids can't get things like that but still there. There were all these guns in canada and hardly any gun murders at that time there over eleven thousand gun murders in the us and there were one hundred sixty five in canada. So you can do the math or you can see that. There's something wrong. Why aren't the canadians killing more of each other. Why aren't they more. like us. Seem like us if they watch the same violent movies and same violent. Tv shows as we watching You know the culture. I mean the culture's different. If you live on the border you know that but nonetheless. The culture is also very similar. They just don't reach for the gun when they get upset. So that changed the whole focus of the film. And i'm going to have with me here very shortly. One of the parents of the students who were killed at columbine he's in the movie bowling for columbine. That was the movie we set out to making spent three years making it and they miss tom mauser. We had a lot of respect and still do for him the tragedy that he and his family suffered through and he became an activist on this issue. I talked to him in a number of years. Now i'm sorry that the events in colorado the weaker now going to bring us back together on this podcast but before he joins us. I just want to say a few things because the solution here is not what we think it is and we made this point in the film. There's something wrong with us. As americans we started to explore that us the film. Now let me just jump in and interrupt myself here and tell you that in many ways what is wrong with us isn't what it appears to be for instance. According to the washington post we are far from being a nation of gun. Nuts because seventy eight percent of us do not own a gun. Seventy eight percent of all americans don't have a single goddamn weapon. Twenty two percent have guns and the vast majority of them are hunters. Her people use them for sport. There's there are those. Obviously who feel that. They need it for soft protection in the same washington. Post article pointed out though. And here's the scary part of this statistic that half of all the guns in this country so let's say that let's say there's three hundred million guns on this country just to do the math. Three hundred million guns. In the united states of america one hundred and fifty million of them are owned by just three percent of our population. So seventy eight percent of us. Don't own a gun but three percent of us own a hundred and fifty million guns so do the math on three percent you know. These are adults obviously kids. But that's what seven eight million people one hundred and fifty million guns so that means on average each of these huge gun owners each own at least twenty guns. What if any twenty guns for and the the perpetrators the killers these these mass murders. They aren't always who you think they are. It's these aren't punks. The killer of children at sandy hook elementary in newtown colorado twenty children killed in six staff at that elementary school twenty children. Mostly all first graders about six years old. Who went in there and committed that crime gyns in his twenties. A guy some guy who just shot right through the doors and windows and enter that school. It's funny if the suspect is of different color of a different socio economic class. We weren't allowed that we hear a lot about it but the killer of twenty first graders was the son of the vice president of general electric. They never mentioned that in the paper. Why is that you know as much as we talk about in. You know this is there. Are there discussing this already in terms of what happened in boulder that the killer may have mental probable. of course. anybody would do this as a mental problem. I don't think that shouldn't we should just make that clear. But the right republicans in ra they really want to focus on this mental health issue and yes. We have a big mental health problem this country and we need to deal with it but this twenty something year old who killed the twenty. Six people had sandy hook. He had not one but two shrinks because he was on the gold plan. His father's his father's the vice president and general electric. He had the best frigging healthcare. Best health insurance anybody's going to have in the united states of america and even with a two shrinks wasn't enough. It's something else it's always something else and we want an easy answer. We wanna quickly and we don't ever really want to think. About what else could this be. I don't know. I don't know if we really do want to know the why the guy in the second half of the las vegas hotel killed fifty seven people and injured hundreds. He was a multimillionaire. Did you know that so multimillionaire. So it's now always exactly who you think. It is in their reasons for doing this. I don't always exactly clear. But i think i think if we're ever going to solve this problem that we need to look at this differently and we need to look for new solutions because the old way isn't working thoughts and prayers there. Let's let's close the loophole in the background checks. This is not going to fix our fundamental problem that we as americans have when it comes to the violence. That is our problem. And we hate to be debbie downer hair. Because i do try to. I am optimistic person. Obviously i wouldn't be doing all this if i didn't believe we could fix things and make it better but i have to tell you my friends. After this week of seven mass shootings the two large ones bookending. The week atlanta in boulder. Maybe this can't be fixed. Maybe this is just one of these things. We have to learn to live with because this is who we. Are you know you if you live in the lowlands of bangladesh. The annual monsoon season the waters rise half the country is below sea-level in thousands drown. And because the way the earth is there that they have to live with it they have to deal with it. They have to try to save their wives but doesn't always work. Maybe this is just are are curse. Maybe this is the human ecology it we have to live. This is our dna. This is america and get ready for the next mass shooting tomorrow the next day. Yeah sometimes it's it's four people in detroit. It's three people in milwaukee It's five people in seattle but there may not be affixed to this because we would ultimately have to fix ourselves. we'd all have to be a nation that was not inclined to use violence as a solution to a problem. We would have to be a country that had universal free healthcare. So that anybody who wasn't feeling well somebody who needed to check in to a hospital to see a psychiatrist psychologist. We're not that country. Our attitude is hey man. You can't afford it tough. Tough it out. pull yourself up by your bootstraps. We got obamacare. But that still leaves about thirty million people without health insurance so We're not we're not entirely committed to this and so somebody that needs help can't get help. Then we suffer the consequences and the next shooter goes into the next supermarket or the next pharmacy or the next library of the next school. The next church next black church suck it up live with it. that's america. i don't like saying that. And i don't wanna live in that country so we're going to have to figure something else out. Aren't we because he's damn republican certainly aren't going to pass anything. They're not gonna join with us on anything. We don't really need them. In joe biden and the democrats in the senate have any kind of guts they will bypass this filibuster. They will deal with it and get these laws passed that we need including this one all the other ones we need and the people who have all these guns love their guns and are afraid that we're going to take their guns away from them. They need they need to cool the fuck down. You're a hunter you like to shoot guns on. The range have added. Nobody wants your guns. But if you've got twenty guns or if you've got magazines that hold thirty fifty one hundred bullets. We'd like to talk to you about that to see what you're thinking here. You're a menace a potential venice. Because you don't need that kind of firepower for your own self defense and you certainly don't need it to kill bambi somehow someway. We're going to have to fix this but we may not be able to tell me that's not true. Tell me there's a way. Because we certainly and i'm telling you people listening to this podcast right now from around the world. They're just shaking their hands. Like you americans you just gonna keep doing this. You stopped doing it during the pandemic. Yeah and then all of a sudden when things start to get back to normal spring break is happening. Restaurants area opening and mass shootings are back because that is as american as apple pie and this poor this poor sick individual who killed these ten people twenty one years old. He was born on april seventeenth. Nineteen ninety nine three days before the columbine massacre in now some twenty one twenty two years later he walks in to a suburban denver supermarket in kills ten. He injures no one because that kind of gun. It's meant to kill in only kill shoots all those bullets and there's no injuries. Nobody ended up in the hospital. If he shot you. You ended up in the more. That kind of gun should not be allowed in civilian society. The police shouldn't have it. The citizens shouldn't have it and we can talk about the military some other time but my friends. This is insanity thinking about what i was gonna say in in. Do tonight on this podcast. I thought i need to talk to tom. Mauser i need to talk to the man who was really the conscience of bowling for columbine and so i said the basil do think like so notice and i'm sure he's having his own week dealing with us and thinking about his son lost his life at columbine mehlis kate let's give them a call and see if he he would come on and spend a few minutes with me And to any agreed to he said yes and And he's here in the days. And the weeks and the years since tom mousers fifteen year old son daniel was taken from him at the columbine high school massacre in april twentieth. Nineteen ninety nine. Tom mazar has spoken in. Marched in organized written gotten laws passed and sadly been called upon to comfort parents who have also lost their children in this most cruel american epidemic school shootings in addition to his tireless advocacy. He is a longtime public servant having worked for decades for the colorado department of public transportation. I just want to read you a quote from a scene in bowling for columbine. He spoke on the stage in front of the state capital in denver shortly after The combine killings he said to the people gathered. I am here today. Because my son daniel would want me to be here. Today is my son. Daniel was not one of the victims. He wouldn't be here with me today. Something is wrong in this country when a child grab a gun so easily and shoot a bullet into the middle of a child space as my son experienced. Something is wrong but the time has come to come to understand that a tech nine semi-automatic thirty bullet weapon like that killed. My son is not used to kill. Deer get has no useful purpose. It is time to address this problem and then in the film. I speak to tom and he says to me to start of the blue poses. A question to me that altered the direction not just of the film but of my way of looking at violence and specifically american violence in this. This is what time said to me that brings up an important question. Then what is so different about americans. Homicide will in nature because in europe. Australia most other free world countries. They don't have this. They don't have people who snap and go on murderous rampage. They have the occasional person that snaps and kills a lot of people or about a pretty soccer rattles waker. Every time that i bring up comparisons with other free world countries. I hear all our culture so different for so different and as you said they have island games. They have violent movies. They have alienated youth. They like us. Don't have prayer in schools. What is the radically different. What is it about what is it what is it what is it what is it. I don't know you know what somewhere in this question lies. Not just the answer but the solution. My sincere hope is that is true. We have now with us. mr. Tom mauser tom. How are you sir. Good oh you michael. I'm well you know. I'm sad and mad that i have to deal with this again again so tom first of all i mean. Just how. are you doing this week with us. I mean it's got a trigger all those feelings and seeing innocent people lose their lives. Yeah it does it it. Brings it back to you. Especially when i start doing a an interview with the media and talking about daniel. It's bigger some of that. Was you know it was especially difficult. Because i got a phone call from a friend whose daughter was in that store when it happened. They're good friends of ours and our daughters friends and she she didn't she wasn't shot but i know that she's going to be traumatized. And just as so. Many americans are by these senseless senseless things over over these last Twenty twenty two years. I mean you have devoted a good chunk of your life Speaking out against this trying to get laws passed around. Go around the country. Or see you on tv I mean you have been tireless and fearless on this issue in the in and standing up to the nra and to the gun lobby you have we have. We failed if we fail with this. If we 'cause is this ever really going to change. Is there just something in our dna. That won't let us be released from the grip of as americans that this is just a thing now. It's been a thing for at least a couple of decades and i. I'm out of ideas in the sense of what is it. We can do to see that. This happens as little as possible. Maybe never ever get rid of everything. But but you know i guess. I'm calling you tonight for some help here in the in the sense that I feel like i in my friends. We've given it a lot and and yet here we are talking about it again. More people dead in a nation confused asking. Why don't you ask the question. Have we failed while our generation has. We clearly have failed the following generations. It's really up to those generates not say that we don't keep trying to do something and we. We don't help them ask the question themselves but yeah we somewhat really failed and i i'm an optimist by nature otherwise. I guess i wouldn't be doing this. Otherwise i guess i'm a glutton for punishment but you know i'm i'm still asked as i have been this week. Well why are you shocked by. This is it. Is it's shocking to this is still going on my responses now. No i'm saddened by it and up shocked at its app but no. I'm not surprised by it because we really haven't done very much to deal with it. We haven't we really need the young generation in particular to say we've had enough of this. We don't wanna live like this. This has to change the cultural change. We really need serious serious cultural change if we wanna see anything improve cultural cultural. Meaning what makes us americans. I mean if it is somewhat in greater otherwise. Why would we have so much more of this happening than in nations. That are like us. It's a gun culture. It's i think it's a violent culture. I think it's also a culture that we're so individualized in this country. We don't look. We're not a nation of deals with a community very much. We were so much about the individual when what it is about me and not so. We don't really reach out to people very well. Bigger problem frankly is the day to day shootings not as much as raw shocked by the mass shootings. But they really make up. A smaller percentage of of the deaths. A lot of these are domestic the killing people that they know and i think i really think a lot of it is because we're not reaching out to the people who who who are the perpetrators you know these these people who were lost in life you're on your own buddy. You know we meet really aren't very good at at comforting other people in dealing with other other people who were troubled i and then we also i think have a cultural thing of of entitlement and revenge and getty app people people especially in the case of of domestic shootings and the mass shootings. These people are really mad at other people and they're gonna take them down with them not satisfied the end their own miserable lives. They have to take somebody with them. What is it about us. Your i go asking the question of. What is it about us. That has so many people like this. The behave this way. And think this way you would akao. I'll ask you the same question. I asked you twenty two years ago. What it is well i. I think it's entitlement. I think we have a lot of people. I think we see this other political ways of people who feel some entitlement to certain things and they don't like being told they can't have that so they have they have a miserable life. They've been bullied or they didn't get where they wanted to go. And they're mad as hell they're gonna take it out on somebody. I think the countries that that are more community minded and more concerned about the humidity nation as a whole. I don't think they have as many people like that. They don't have people who were disposed of in and I mean you could even argue. That that's happened in the political field. Know how we how we elected the last residents a lot of people who felt i don't like what the world has done the main I'm going to select someone who Who reflects that and who's new speaks for me There's something about this nation a. I'm not saying oh people were like that. Obviously the i'm suggesting that some of the people who turned violence are that way but we will. We don't have many system set up to help those people to deal with them. We tell them. Hey you're on your own. Something has happened since columbine and frankly. I didn't think i'd live to see the day that this would happen. But the nra the national rifle association in the last year or two has been neutered in many ways and they had the file for bankruptcy. They're coming apart at the seams. There are actually less members than there were before there. Are you know the use of guns is actually been going down and down and down each year in terms of number of hunters that you know just basic gun us is donald and i said before you come on here that it's now at a point where seventy eight percent of all americans do not own a gun so some progress i think has been made here and and our greatest foe here the nra the gun lobby. They're back on their heels and they are They are not doing well right now and this may be tom. I don't know maybe this is the moment. Maybe the window is opened. Maybe there's a chance you know. I heard the president united states yesterday say ban all assault weapons. Wow that was. That was a shock. I was surprised to hear that. Frankly democrats used to be frightened of the nra right. Remember that we remember back in the day you. You couldn't get you certainly couldn't get republicans to be on your side here but you couldn't get democrats. They were afraid to take a position. They thought that's the death of you at the at the polls if you come out against the that's gone now now the. Nra is the one that's frightened. The democrats are the last two elections congressional elections there. There's a great Statistic here of the the nra endorse candidates. Were the ones that were losing. The ones who didn't get the endorsement the nra they won. That's how the democrats were able to take over congress in two thousand eighteen. I don't see politicians putting ads out there anymore. You know walking. Like john kerry and walk into the fields with a gun shooting ducks and shoot deer shooting things but are they going to change their votes. No i'm i'm not convinced they are. They are still lockstep with the gun lobby. The nra may be weaker. Let the gun lobby. In general in the gun industry it is still an industry and indeed as you said they are They're seeing sales. Go down. I mean what what you see in sales now is a lot of people buying extra guns even more rather than you know individuals but but but those people are still going to vote down anything. They're gonna use the filibuster to defeat anything comes before the senate. Well then we have to get rid of the filibuster agree you know when it gets when it gets to the point. Where over ninety percent of americans support universal background checks. Strong background checks and mitch. Mcconnell can say no. We're not even going to hear it when he was in power and now he's not and not in majority but he'll use the filibuster to kill it to there. Is something seriously wrong in this country. When that's the way we run. Things is basically a tyranny by the minority and we can't let that happen that's not democracy. We have to use this particular case as as evidence number one why we have to get rid of the filibuster. Forget about the other issues. When ninety percent of americans can't get something that they want. There's something wrong you gotta change. Otherwise it's not a democracy. I mean this is. I'm glad you brought this up because this is if we could get rid of this hurdle if joe biden would come out forcefully against the filibuster just call it. What it is. It's not democracy. Democracy is majority rules fifty one votes in the senate. That's all you need. We've got him you know. And that's should be the end of that. And and if he's got some people like senator manchin senator cinema wavering. Jesus you're old enough to remember what you know back in the day. The linden johnson's and the tipple neal's and whatever they brought him in. Close the door fifteen minutes later. They walked out of the door. They're voting for the bill. Yeah well you also ask them. How do people in your state feel about. Universal background checks with ninety percent of americans. You can't tell me that in west virginia arizona it's only ten percent or even only forty percent. Now it's it's it's more than fifty percents a lot more than fifty percent. So why why. Why are you not supporting it. Some of them are still afraid. We we we have to. We have to get people to speak up more and say this is ridiculous. Anybody in the last two days. Who said you know how bad they feel about what happened in boulder or or has said something to me about the filibuster. Whatever i said. I say this now i will now say it till. I'm blue in the face. Did you make the call. What call you call the senate. Your senators tampa call mansion. Did you call the senate switchboard. You know. i say this number. Whenever i can and i'll say it right now and folks who are listening. I'll put it right here on my page and want to get a pencil out or whatever to they. Still make pencils two. Oh two two two four three one to one. If you don't know who you're senator is when the operator answers the call Just tell him or her The state you live in and they'll connect you to to one of the two senators and then call back and talk to the other one. We'll talk to their their aides. Somebody will talk to you. They wanna know how you feel about this. Yeah i mean you know there's one hundred thousand people listening to me right now. There's two hundred thousand people all you've gotta do is dial two. Oh two two four three one. Two one boom fifteen to thirty seconds of your time lengths reflective without on with an example back when we were trying to close the gun show loophole in colorado before it went on the ballot. Senator who was leaked. Who's trying to get. The bill passed in the state legislature. Close the gun show loophole. He was at a meeting and a woman asked him. Are we gonna close that loophole. And he said ma'am it's not looking like it. She said why not. Why can't we get this close. And he said ma'am who's your who's your who's your state representative and senator. And she said. I'll i'm not sure he said ma'am that's why it's not going to pass. That is what it comes down to. Until people more people speak up and make their voices heard and encouraged her neighbors to do that and get involved in not count on somebody else doing it. It's not going to change. Who many americans think that this issue is a. The people advocating on this issue are extremists. You know on both the pro gun side of the zealots as well as the a gun. Violence prevention people. I'm sorry i. I don't consider myself an extremist at all. I do think that people on the other side are extremists. They're owning mac and we and we have to. We already outnumber them. But now we've got a. We've got to out shout them. They're very good at shouting. They're very good at intimidating. We have to play their ball game and remember the worthy majority in this case the ninety percent majority. Yes yes there was. Somebody i saw on the cable news here yesterday I don't know if it was either congressman out there. somebody said they. You went to some inauguration colorado on dc but he said this is their this. Is i think reporter saying that daniel would be his age. They would be of the same age right now. It annual lived. I thought oh my god and what. What did we all lose as a result of that. What did we lose out on. Who would he have been what you've done. How much better with the world of ben. Frankly tried. I try not to think of that. It's it's it's too difficult. Sorry to bring it up. But i want. I want you to know that you're not the only one has to think about this. And we do think we think about you. All of us who worked in the film This you have Been with us all these twenty two years and we're all as committed as we were before we just don't necessarily have the answer. We have some answers that can maybe explain who we are as americans but but the actual the path to success to end this once and for all well. I know what happens when there's no filibuster because we will immediately have whatever laws we need passed but that will require a massive uprising. American people calling that senate switchboard number and demanding demanding that these laws get passed. That's right. I wanna believe right now. This is our moment. Maybe my crazy thinking that this possibly be so many times. I thought for sure after sandy hook you know and and i i interviewed a some of the parents after sandy hook and i was going to do something and i i thought you know what the thing here we during vietnam the nightly news showed us actually showed footage our soldiers being killed in vietnam. That did more to war. People saw that at dinnertime and were horrified. Bring the troops home that became the rallying cry across the country. I think i think if people saw the crime scene photos from sandy hook that would be the end of that. There would be the end of the nra Because because i know nobody wants to look at that but sometimes the only emmett till when he was killed by the white supremacists back in the fifties yup. Yeah very brave. Mother brave mother. They sent the body back home here. I think to new york. And she insisted an open casket so the whole world could see what they did to her little boy and it was so horrific and it shocked the nation and it was a turning point in popular support for yes civil rights legislation for martin luther king for it didn't didn't happen overnight but somebody had to do it in and her doing that. So two or three of the sandy hook parents agreed with me. And you know we haven't done anything with it yet. Because i don't want any trauma to be triggered. The family members but america needs to take a look in the mirror in the mirror. Are those kids piled into the closet and sandy hook with close range the gunman blowing their heads off blowing half their faces off. I think if america if they would stop turning away from this and look at the actual humanity of it the damage it would be so sickening. Yes it's it's going to be sickening but we need to. We need to be sickened by this. We do and and that just forget about it. Ten days after boulder. Forget about it until the next one. I'm sorry to be so upset about this. But that is the reality. Unfortunately america the new cycle is so short people will forget. It's it's almost like thing. We have to count on is the fact that it happens so much and so often you know. This is the boulder shooting. There was the aurora theater. Shooting the the massacre in charleston. Now every city is gonna. Have you know some terrible shooting and maybe that will lead people say. Oh maybe maybe we need to try something else that with the new cycle this short. I'm sorry of most people other than colorado largely gonna forget this and they're gonna forget atlanta because it's too painful for them and they don't know they feel like they don't know what they can do. Well we have a right to bear arms. Oh gee what can you. Oh there's crazy people you know john kennedy louisiana's saying know it's it's idiot. Idiot control i mean. Come on folks when it happens this much. You can't just write it off like that but people don't wanna deal with it i think also there's too much reliance on those of us who are victims to speak up. We need more ordinary people. More people saying. I don't want to be that next tom. Mauser don't want to be the next victim. I'm going to do something now. I can't tell you how many other other victims i've come across said. I'm sorry i didn't get involved in this before now well and so am i You can't wait until it impacts you directly. You have to assume that it you could be the next one or your neighbor. Someone you love. And that's ought to be motivation to do something about it. You mentioned earlier that you felt that our generation the older generation has failed In we've failed our younger generations. How do you feel especially watching. What happened after the shooting parkland how they were guys. That massive march in dc and stayed active. I mean i've been really impressed with teenagers. High school students college students On this issue may be. Maybe what we haven't been able to do they'll be able to do it. Oh absolutely i think that they really can set set a different course and say we don't wanna live like this this this is craziness you know. Hey if if we can put up with all these drills that are so disturbing than you know what then the nra and its people. They ought to be able to cope with background checks and waiting periods and not having a salt Assault rifle they've had to put up with so much and i think they can bring about change. I really. I really think you could bring back. I went down there to parkland couple of weeks after the massacre there to see if it could help kids in and whatever they needed and I i think i mentioned the term you know. They're considered gen z. generation z. Or whatever and they said no. Don't cause that i said well. What would you wanna be called when art. What do you call yourself. And the young girl said we call ourselves the columbine generation because everybody in this room. She said and look looking around the room. Every one of us was either in our mothers bellies when columbine happened or born shortly after or shortly before and really hit me. I said really. I mean you guys this you call yourselves this. Yes that's in fact. We want you the adults to know that because you gave us this world you make us have to go through these active shooter drills the way we used to go through tornado drills when we were in school. We've we've nothing else but the fear that anybody could walk into the classroom at any time and kill us. That's our whole life. Yeah we are not gen z. She says we are the combine generation. I said wow. I just wanted to apologize. I'm sorry this is the world you've been handed. This should have been fixed long ago. The you'd have to be identified with the massacre into which you were born that year while. I'm glad i'm glad you have that you share that. Hope that this generation is going to do something is doing something you know one of the encouraging things that happens to me is when i get when i get a youtube message or an email from a young person. Who said they. They read about or video of daniel and they wanted the right to me. It's can't who wasn't even born then and they're taking the time to express on especially our condolences. That to me is so encouraging. Because they're they're willing to look at what something happened in the past and realize how that ties into today how it's still a problem I am so encouraged. When i hear from young people. Yes yes i am too. I am maybe we'll just leave it on that that There in lies the hope. But i want everybody listening to this to call that switchboard number the us senate To end the filibuster impasse this gun legislation to two two two four. Three one to this telethon. We're not raising money. I'm asking you to be pleased. Be citizen and call tom. I'm so grateful that you had the time to spend with us tonight. I hope you're doing well. Thanks it's it is people like you that are going to help change this world. You've already done it in many ways. You've changed many minds. Keep at added if you can but like you said. I don't think this is the burden that the victims have to carry. I think this is on us and all the rest of us we call ourselves citizens of this democracy that we have to start acting like it. Tyler thank you. You're welcome be well. Yeah and say hi to your family and tell them we wish them. Well i'll take care bye. Well that was Really something catching up with. Tom again in so happy to see that he's still working on this but we can't obviously leave it up to him and the other victims as he said. This is something we have to do. Hate is a few of the things that just want to catch up with the on before we finish. But before i do that i wanna take a moment to thank our amazing underwriter for this particular episode amazon studios those film people there and they have an amazing film out right now that has been nominated for the academy awards. It's called time. Time was directed by garrett bradley and it is the most honored documentary of the year in addition to its oscar nomination. It's been nominated for best documentary by the independent spirit. Awards outstanding producer of a documentary by the producers guild of america and all. This is on top of awards. That time has already one from sundance to the idea. A documentary awards. New york film critics los angeles film critics national society of film critics doc n. y. c. great documentary festival all these awards and they're all so richly deserved this is. This is definitely one of the great documentaries of the last few years and it's director garrett bradley this is her feature documentary debut and. i think that she has accomplished something very profound. She's made both beautiful love story. That's also a powerful film about america's cruel and racist prison industrial complex. I know you've never heard those words in the same sentence before love story and racist prison industrial complex. But that that's the genius of this film. It tells the story of a black woman. Her name is fox rich and she has spent the last two decades campaigning for the release of her husband. Rob g rich who is serving his sixty year. Sentence for robbery committed back in the early nineties. Garrett paints a mesmerizing portrait of resilience and radical of that's necessary to prevail over all these years of separation separation. That's caused by this country's mass incarceration epidemic. So my friends. Please do yourself a favor watch time. I'm prime and if you don't have prime if not a prime membership then just get a free trial just to watch this film. You know you can do that. It's fine they want. They want you to see this film so just sign up for a free membership. And i'll have a link to the film right here on the description page of this episode yet and i wanna thank of course amazon studios in the good people there the good movie people there for supporting this podcast for supporting my voice and supporting the work of talented filmmakers like garrett bradley and her excellent oskar nominated film time. I also want to thank another great underwriter of this episode here today and that is signal wire and it's been a lot of talk lately about all of us trying to get back to normal. We wanna get back to normal pretty soon. I know listen. We're all eager to get out of the house. I wanna talk about that in a second here. We want to get our lives going again and we really want to go back to normal like we had some of us. Don't want to go back to the old normal and the new normal that's been created during the pandemic hasn't really been so great on a number of levels. Think of how hard it's been just to communicate with each other in the ways that we've had to cobble together some sort of communication system so that we can work with each other and yet when it's come to doing this very thing whether it's our kids are trying to do it because they've had to be going to school while their home or whether it's you trying to work with your colleagues at work whether it's maybe you're nonprofit that you're part of your food co-op whatever it is. All of us have said during this year. There's got to be a better way to do this to communicate collectively with each other. Well there is and signal wire was built for this moment. You know the other methods of you know how we all are on our screens and we have all the other people were working with her on the screen. And it's in you know it's okay but it hasn't really been what you know especially if you want some quality you want great video quality angry audio so signal wire. They figured this out. You've got to check them out. It's easy to use in. It enables quick informal. An unscheduled interactions. The times have changed and the way we do business with each other is changing. And that's why now is a great time to get on board with signal. Wire sign up. Before april thirtieth at signal wire signal wire all one word dot com and use the code more. That's my last name and signal wire. Well okay get this. There's no bs here. Single wire will buy lunch for your first team meeting on single wire on your screen. All you gotta do is go to signal dot com and be sure and check the terms and conditions of this. But they'll buy your lunch for your first team meeting so don't forget signal wire dot com use the code more m. o. r. e. signal wire dot com. Thank you very much signal wire for supporting my voice in supporting this podcast in giving me the chance to encourage people use something new and cool in good So anyways again. It was great having tom. Mauser onto to talk about The continuing Roadshow of american violence and the sad said continuation of these mass shootings. Like i said before the time we spent in denver in littleton colorado making bowling for columbine it affected all of us and It it was actually. It was eighteen years ago this week where we all went to the academy awards because we were nominated for best documentary and And well actually. Why don't we just we have the audio of Diane lane opening the envelope when we would just play this in your. What's your understanding. The context of this is the fifth night of the iraq war and And walking in there into the kodak theatre was a weird. It's weird experience. A lot of us thought. Maybe we shouldn't be going to oscar ceremony five days into this horrific war but Bowling for columbine. You've seen the film if you haven't You can go here on my podcast page. We've we've put up for free here for this week just Just watch it if you watch it again if you haven't seen it in the last fifteen years or so but but i'm gonna play when a play for you right now. The ask her the asker moment in the The chaos that ensued and the oscar goes to bowling for columbine. This is the first academy award nomination for michael moore and michael donovan on behalf of producers kathleen glynn and michael donovan from canada. I'd like to thank the academy for this. I've invited a my fellow documentary nominees on the stage with us and we would like to. They are here they are here in solidarity with me because we like nonfiction. We like nonfiction and we live in fictitious times. We live in a time where we have fictitious election results that alexa fictitious president. We we live in a time where we have a man sending us to war for fictitious reasons whether it's the fictitious of duct tape or the fictitious of orange alert. We are against this. War destroys same on you. Mr bush seem on you anytime. You've got the dot. Wow i'm going to tell you that was the Security had to get out of there. I'm pretty quick but it was a great night and a great moment and a lot more people saw the film is resulted in talking about this issue of we as violent people. Still talking about it all these years later but Check out the film and also here on the podcast page. There's been a little tribute that tom and his family did for daniel mauser. So maybe maybe check that out to em- promise me you'll make that call to the united states. Senate meet a lot. Finally on the podcast episode back on tuesday of this week. I told you that That was The day that the said that the my vaccine shots are fully integrated into my body and ineffective in. I could easily Side with a mask on. Keep my social distance. Whatever and i was going to come back today and tell you all about how it went. But i didn't do it and leave. The house here woke up. I was going to do it. And then this thing happened in boulder and it just kind of want wanna talk about my liberation day day when so many more people lost their lives to something that we've spent all this time on what seems like to no avail so i'm still gonna i'm gonna go out. Don't worry i'll record some audio whatever you know It'll be sometime soon. I hope what is the south. Three hundred eighty three hundred eighty two days now as it jeeze. Then i've been inside my apartment so hoping to get out in the let you know about that but thanks people. I know you're looking for and facebook. Live or whatever but It just it was wasn't the right moment. Let's just say they handle cam. And i'll leave it there but But but we will do this Very soon all right my friends. That's it for today here on rumble. Thank you for listening. Thank you for joining in to try and stop this madness with gun violence in this country and trying to stop who we are and hopefully become a better people. It's possible right. I believe it's possible right be well. This is rumble. And i michael moore john. That gone mother's image mother superior. John gone zubiri mothers-to-be gionta mother superior. John john xuejuan. No y'all want yes it is.