Part 2: Sid Fernando, Bill Downes,Lenny Shulman, Seth Merrow


Of course who will see. We're back i. We're going to join us here and i just things more more internet commentary. I tell you another. I'll tell you another business story and other ripped from my life experiences There's this new york times article That has created I guess there was a controversy. Even ahead of the times piece is subway selling real tuna and i. I i guess this involves something a class action suit in california. I i will tell you an amazing story about my own experience with subway and and My friends i called on on them Sort of a separate entity of subway Janna brands jna. And i can't remember what. I what i was even calling on them. I i think actually not. I'm thinking about it. I think i've represented them when i was. Yeah when i was selling price club. I think i represented janna with with their serie me with the with the crab meat sticks. You know the the pollock. It's formed into full year thinking you're having crab doesn't does a good job too but this is gonna be late eighties so i'm in their office in boston. And i see these big what looked like aluminum foil. Aluminum foil pouches. They were flat though. They're very flat. And i. And i remember asking. I said what what what is this. What is that they said. Oh that's the tuna for the shops said. Really said wow. This is pretty cool. I forget what the wait was a might have been like three pounds of of tuna but it had been in a squished of all the liquid. All the all the tuna water you know that when you open a can and so all the the shops apparently did was tear. Open the pouch. Put it into a bowl. Ads the celery and whatever else in mayonnaise and mix it up and that that was their tuna. So i you know without explaining you know much more about what i one of my when my real role for years as as a food broker was was creating food items a mostly for the club stores and i talked to them. In fact i remember the sales guy. terrific i allen. Poppy and i said to allen said can you do this can you. Can you manufacture this in a in a the size of a tuna can six ounces. Three ounces said well no it's industrialists for food service. I so well this would be great. This would be great on the retail shelf instead of buying a can of tuna where you have to open it and then squeeze out the liquid liquid and they said now. Nobody's going to do that. And then of course. I had to wait and watch years later as as it. It's now all over the place. I said that was what i see. You know. Subway with the. Yes for my own personal experience yes they. They are selling the tuna. But that that. That's that's a true story. I said i'm sorry i didn't mean to bore you with With my food service tales of Yesteryear good morning case. We got said mike that as it were they've been telling me i should be reading this and that and All sorts of stuff taking place in the business. I'm going to have to interview you. I i've been all over the place. I i I i get like this as we get toward vacation I get you know. Go off on tangents. I am i am. I will freely admit that. I'm looking forward to getting the thick of the week off. Yeah great you deserve it. The we just were getting ready. We just had pat mckenna. I wanted pat to shepherd people through saratoga. What what's your summer. I haven't even discussed this with you. What's your summer agenda. I'm sure around sales time. We're gonna see you. Yeah i've been Down in florida for us Several months and know went to yoga sale And not going to be. Yeah probably probably my next Shit kentucky is Probably came in september sale Other than that you know we start to start to get kind of busy in the summer with the failty coming up agree. We have a lot of people that are yearling buyers and You know it's threats the the really starts in the summer and and you know we get a little pre by january february and then again. that's our cycle. Well i i I hope i see you this summer. And we we talked short. Yeah i although. I you know what i haven't looked at the well. It's it's late it'll be late in the season More ready and i'm well. No we're actually crazily We're going west. We've got the nhc in vegas But before that I thought to my self Why not why not take advantage of proximity and go to del mar for a few days. So we're going to do that As well and let's see the sale. The new york bred sale is the fifteenth and sixteenth. And of course the big sale as we discussed yesterday with browning the ninth and the tenth. I think we're leaving. We're leaving travers week essentially and. yeah so. I guess we just looking here on. I gotta figure then. I guess we're leaving. Maybe the eighteenth. So we'll leave right after. Yeah we'll leave right after the new york sale looks like on wednesday the eighteenth. We had out after the show. And then we're gone. I'm gone through the next weekend back for for closing week. Different different I mean look to the year that were trying to get normalized quote unquote. So there's so many different things taking place there well The the conversation. Yesterday with boyd browning and we're going to you know we'll see what today brings i. It's not a big sale today. Said obviously at santa anita There's there's few dozen cow breads In their That you would imagine you know sell well and overall i mean i i wanted. I wanted boyd's distillation of of of the the sale season as the two year olds wrapped up and it really end up there. There was nothing but positives To to come away with it. Seems i mean from from the boutique. Florida's sale through the deep ob sales. I mean this this. This was a good season and at those are great. Healing sale curveball. Ready made some profit and they're you know they drive except the marketing part also because they re invest in yearlings and today that creates competition with the end user buyer and Yeah the signs are pretty. Good that Feel should you know do well based on the these indicators and i haven't i haven't thought yet to to look ahead But marquee wise said who were the who who's hitting the market Among first crop this fall and summer you know go back and take a look. Convenient blur. yeah exactly I just thinking because they would've. I'm still trying to get a grasp of all the first crop right. Exactly exactly. that'd get started. Once we start to do the art sales analysis later this month for the then i get a better grasp of Who the who the freshman stallion at first is the sales will be. I mean obviously the big one. Everybody knows about his justify. You know it's gonna be it's maker to lose type of thing he you know you've got mendelssohn at the same firm as truth call more You know you got a bunch of what's coming up But it's always interesting to me are the the a surprise courses that we're going to start to see that surprised rack. Year was first weaned. What city of life. He's been retired to lane then and his wing chef a sold through roof. You know thirty forty whatever you know but very very There's big anticipation that fears mendelssohn to gamble. But but if you really look at you kind of out so then mental and so You know underneath to justify you've got some interesting horses That that are going to have their first yearling. And he's definitely one of them. And i'm i'm also i kind of thumbing through my my stack of of sales dotes There was just a piece actually Td on monday that i Printed accelerate and tapper and tapper. Tha- tha- that piece was last week but the accelerate Just the other day. And here's the thing you know you're talking about six that fee for justify then you're talking about know mental thing and City of like we both like around thirty thirty five. I think when you start getting attacked with your you're getting into You know the the twelve thousand dollars level or whatever and accelerate starter off at twenty so the the really interesting thing is just like buying stocks you know or value baseball talent is are you gonna are you gonna somebody Lesser price horses. You want to see what what they're feeling is like Because you get down to it and you really look at stallions and success. Some of the best long-term successful downing to come in that ten to twenty thousand. nine range. You know when you when you look at Hoists like intimacy chips. Warfront happened Blues the quality You know these are the horses where really sharp you doing buyers Fine for lack of better term it is valued really value because they tend to come from that range so like when we're analyzing First year stallions times. We've looked at you know we. We know this historical phenomenon that they comfortably ten to twenty five now range so we really. We really hone in on some of these standards. And that's why. I can give you a better reading of that as we start to look at it more. But i guarantee you ten to twenty thousand range but can't be ride. He was ten thousand two. There's another one right They come in that range and the worsens that tend to be higher. It's very difficult for them to succeed. Vis-a-vis the stud fee because they're the highest sheets possibly go right and so anything. Anything less is always a little down. You know what. I mean So any type of the now is always gonna look for beat upside and that's where that ten to twenty thousand range comes at munnings another one like that You know so. There's there's so much opportunity in that range and you expect the figure horses. You know you gotta do. Well you've got you know you're you're twenty to fifty thousand nine horse of course range in to those. I just mentioned mendelssohn city of right but again History has shown you know that that tend to twenty is very very fertile land and it just occurred to me because i thought of what John secure had to say last week with with us Said and now. He mentioned that the that comes to mind. Because we were talking about mclean's music and cloud computing right is going to have his plan horse five hundred. That's right. yeah that's right and so you know you've got something horses in their attempts but you know we've actually done internal i don't wanna give away trade secrets but we have programs where every year we look at that crappy down and we we. We categorize them sub ten ten to twenty twenty to forty. And then you know forty forty two to ninety and then figuring and what you do every year get a basis you take all your take some ten horses and you get a ratio of how many of these sub ten horses six and we only use conducted by the way just to keep the kind of consistent. How many of these sub ten horses are outperforming. You know it's very difficult to make us down to begin with so there's waited. But how many of sub ten horses outperforming their contemporaries. Then you go to kansas twenty. This group is outperforming temporary. And you come up with a ratio and we found again that ten to twenty is your big performing range so you say you you. You're doing a baseball draft right and you have your number one round as giving the millions those years six figures down here a ratio of where. You don't have to pay that kind of money. It's almost like money ball. Is there an area where people are finding say round five to ten horses seems to be really the ones that are ending up in the major leagues at a higher rate with let cost well. That's what we're trying to do. What round are producing the best results. Lease the money so this is why we can some sometimes recommend worsens. Can you wait ranges that you know people might be surprised about right particularly the first class. Because that's what we're talking about here and we discussed this before. But i crap forces tend to have your best books and said it to to kind of crystallize it. Just the reasons why it's so difficult. for horses to you know to make it As as stallions in in a crowded field. I mean i. It occurred to me to pull up the the july catalog. We came up yesterday with with boyd. And here are the names. And this is scrolling through Pretty quickly but here's the kind of stallions who are going to be introduced in july and august at phase ache And that sort of written them all over the place We just mentioned cloud computing. How 'bout bolt doro how 'bout l'armee mule that John always dreaming. we already mentioned accelerate. You mentioned justify mccracken but shero you mentioned city of light. How 'bout motown eurlings get introduced. They've already been well-received as Short yearlings and and his weanlings more spirits that you can do. that's right. that's right and colt is gorgeous. garvan gervin s- Eurlings are showing up sharp azteca hopper tune ity good samaritan at another a bill mott long-on value and we mentioned accelerate collected. There you go so to four o. B. jersey your be jersey. What one two. Three four tapper. There's another one five six seven eight. We say always dreaming nine. There's like fifteen right there. And i you know when when those get introduced some of the ones that you know that are in that category from the previous year or two. They get lost in the shuffle. And that's why when you explain a third. The third crop is the is the you know the maker break You can understand because the buyers. I mean look at this. I july cadillac. At how stacked that is going to be when people open. The cadillac. hasn't been made yet. I don't believe it's only online so you're going to be confronted with all of these. You know new faces and It drowns out right at shoulders. It shunts the you know the the not struggling but the you know the ones that got increasingly less covers In their second and third seasons Why the field gets you know so crowded why. It's so difficult exactly. And you know the third fourth your heart and off tend to get their worst marriage in those years to The the the other part of the in general quality of manners at first couple of times best which is one of the reasons why they do the back and so regardless of stuff feel at that level they ten they tend to get the back man so You know marriage. A group at the american group are so pivotal to the fan and If you can just conceptualize that in the first book you get you know good mare. Second crop lesser married. Third crop lesser for wasser. You could then he wise. You know linear progression of increase performance and then in the fifth year. If that and has done well saying with his first two year olds two year old. His mind run when he's serving. His fourth book bans so any this year you can have route and you know an upward swing again. And let's use a horse you've been talking about the core point using the visit. When first crop is came off and he got cloud computing was classic winner in his third crop is complexity which kept his name alive. So by the time breeders now were breathing in fifth year. Okay this is now that up year because had early success. Look at the results from fifty years there to grade one winners. jackie's warrior and drain the clock our product and mcclain's music year done when he got the upswing mares right now i can only i can only think about the and i bring this up whatever whatever this discussion rolls around i bring up the John nehru Axiom that you cannot make a definitive call. On a stallions results and progeny until they've had seven crops that that was that was neighborhoods rule law. Yeah and of course. I've tell i've always given you a corollary to that. Every time being that out and he was talking about an era. When you get forty fifteen books right that they've fifty fifty seven three hundred and fifty foles right. Essentially you gotta look at that and he told me well you know right now you could have three hundred fifty two i three crowds and and so this is why. And that's just it's just a result of during his your high commercialization and opening books It's why there's so much at stake in those crops now will work versus when he was talking about it. Where you know you have the sheer numbers so you you have to wait for the numbers to cook in before you get actually definitively say for various getting you know one hundred fifty foals in his first crop and another under twenty seconds crops and you know suddenly You know you can see why people are quicker now to write off. Its down because you know he's had the opportunity you know. Every time i talk about this stuff the number of baseball two very similar to baseball You know want to see you know you gotta give a guy at certain number of plate appearances before you can tell you know you know. Guy with a hundred plate appearances and baddie. Two hundred is different game from a guy. That's been the minors thousand play a pnt. And he's adding two hundred. You know the guy was a thousand. He's established himself. This guy's at two hundred. Where's the guy with the hundred you know. In his next hundred you know he could. He could four hundred and raises his average three hundred. So i mean you know and just giving you round numbers years so it points exactly were you saying but with news did say. Which is you. Need a certain number of in this case quote on quote plate appearances to really make much of the san. Juan went to or the ball. Fair eight hundred thousand minor league appearances and he's only two hundred you know he's going to get relief. You've got to keep going blind Unfortunately the fickleness of fashion and commercialization as into is not only baseball but Racing to and so league days now You know a young player may not have the luxury of even getting thousand freight appearances in baseball. You may get run out of the game with three hundred play the be because he has produced immediately and basically. That's what your point. What's happening in various what's happening with ballplayers players is what's happening. You now really everywhere. Everybody's got to produce right away or you're sent away shunted to decide that. So much pressure to purdue now we're now society and and time is no longer something anybody willing to get anybody and if you look at twitter chatter it's always a reflection of about to somebody does something and guys hejlsberg got bad. Crowd jumps in and boom. You're dawn right so our patience. Some of the some of the values that we've always society kind of value really have been corrupted to do what we become sub so often said and our conversations. We find a way to equate You know equate other walks of life. and and other arenas with you know with our business another example exactly right well said i appreciate it. I didn't have really a firm set The topic but we managed to find one pretty readily. It's always interesting of you and you know one of the hallmarks of your show being able to utilize other parts of society that explained in in in yours in my case usa today and reading reading related matters. I i always find that you can get a better grasp of anything if you compare it to other things that bell you know and you understand and and to be able to talk about matters whether it's bleeding indicates with greatest daito she's or other sports I think it helps understand Sport you're talking about and and and getting back to you. I think we do a great job of that. And you certainly allow me to talk it out here during the segment that you give birth fully appreciated as well. It's always just topical. And and i imagine that the certain segment. It's something i know. A certain segment looks forward to it. Every you know every week and Whatever whatever the the current topic is and and you know it is funny that today you know. Here's the final day of two year old. In training sale season the last of those go through and when we get back Two weeks from from today will. We'll be just a few days away from that july sale so this was actually a this was actually a perfect Perfect introduction to the second half of the you know the sale season and Said i have a good couple of weeks. And i look forward to talk the second half of the year. We'll talk to you got it. Sit fernando everybody. Sire watch pedigree focused brought to you by hillen dale consultants and by. Now you've got a real feel for what your mayors produced and how happy are with with their looks and then their action already running around front around the fields and For the for the next go around get ahold of said and roger five one four nine hundred eleven. Eleven will stay here speaking of eleven. It's eleven and Bill downs join us. Do a segment with bill looking at Those two stakes at indiana grand. Today we had a little half Segment with him on monday. Because of the carryover. And in fact i went over with yesterday. the carryover Results so Won't well we'll touch on it actually with bill because i'm curious how he did And we'll see what he's got for today but it it really a nice companion parrot. Companion cards The between indiana. I and canterbury later so there you go. There's bill and what did i You know this thing. Somebody i told you people i i don't i don't know if it's coming from. I looked to see if it was coming from my second computer. I've got I've got the second the older laptops which i had refurbished. I figured why not right. It was like three hundred dollars three sixty three ad. I think they they charged apple To refurbish the old one which was shot but You know as a backup right. And it's it's here in the office I'm thinking maybe. That's where that i because i can't. I cannot no matter. How many times i i'm you this. You know my main laptop. I can't find it and it's not the phone. That's that's beeping. It's so strange where it's coming from anyway. Bill down joining us next. And then leonard. Here we go. That's what i was looking for. The there's bill down. good morning. Good morning steve. Bell before we talk about the two stakes today. And i had marcus hersh earlier and got marcus's opinions but It was exactly. I thought it came off exactly like we suggested that if people were narrowed up and you know basically zeroed in on the obvious contenders including you know the potential to single rock paper scissor and even choctaw bingo that they could have played a three dollars. Four dollar five dollar pick five and they got back one hundred and twenty five dollars for every fifty cents. Yep i it was one of those days and even though it wasn't a dave to you know Put money into your retirement fund. That was certainly profitable. Dave you found the right singler singled and Just you know found a way not to make a mistake in that sequence well and those were the ones that you talked about and and i think we pretty much put everybody. I mean the one horse. That was somewhat tricky. Even though he ended up being the second choice truculent was the one the one horse that you may have had to have either stretched or or gone a little further than you know than the first pass but everything else was there. We said fifty five strong and show far in the nightcap. You said people could single rock paper with with confidence Jump right in was was readily apparent in that second leg and choctaw bingo choctaw. Bingo may have been even more impressive. Frankly than rock paper scissors was yeah. They're gonna have to find A little bit saltier spot. I think choctaw bingo. All three of those raises rather easily be better than the market indicates and last rates was a much bigger margin granted. So i think they'll they'll they'll figure out something where to where to put Choctaw next three wins in a row and still going great well. And before we jump into the stakes and the sequence. What did we miss yesterday. i have to run to to pennsylvania pennsylvania to was from mont bennington. Oh i don't know we didn't. It wasn't I was more gearing up for the for the car. Today we got a couple of stakes races and whatnot I'm just Pulling it up real quick as you can tell just remind myself you know doing the more line. I'm like six days ahead. I got call raises and getting ready for today's races but You know it was was more. Mike lower mike lara one. Another race He's had like six wins in the last Six race dates here at indiana grant and then I guess the most You know interesting horse. That one was traveling justice in indiana red. Who went first time on the turf and had a little bit of trouble on the turn still won by a length and a half or aaron west to is one with quite a few first-time starters I wanna say if i just thumb nailing i'd say he's about thirty percent with first time starter. The meat He he does a little bit of everything runs a meeting special way. Then they'll run some meeting you know he'll he'll run the gambit maiden special weights and made in clamours all over the place. And he's a he's an interesting guy does study you're handicapper and want to try get beat on on what which ones are live because certainly throws out enough live first. Time starters at indiana grant. You mentioned the mentioned that the trouble justice and sammy bermudez aboard thirteen to one they twenty eight sixty and notably was the only first time starter in the group. Yep yep i like csv going on the race and he just never ran a. You never ran a step in that and that spot Shows some promise. Last year was second best but Yeah troubled dust is is Certainly you know. It's whatever the to make sure what how old he is he is three are also be Like the snack stakes. I think something like that Those three year old stakes rates is on the tour. I think yeah he might be finding his way into one of those because that was pretty good one well and the other the other. Tricky ores in the sequence was thirty three eighty four. The mike lower winter been there done that. And those that got through this Sequence were well rewarded twenty seven hundred fifteen dollars for five for five and Let's see at a pool of sixty seven thousand so take ten thousand off. Gets it down to fifty seven thousand so You had about twenty tickets Twenty you know. Twenty fifty cents worth Some variation there of Winners that Because the price of the other ones were all the pretty you know pretty clear gemstone was was a takeover over three two two had the one to two winter For ravelli smoking richie so Other than those two prices It was it was obvious. Pretty out pretty clear. So congratulations anybody that it. Let's see if we can't help again today. Bill and Talk about the two stakes before we do anything else all right. Well the switch my pages over geared but the race in the eighth race are the stakes. rates is the who's your breeders sophomore stakes for phillies as ray six and the colts and geldings in race eight The eighth race is one That there's a lot of speed in the race so And a lot of question marks about whether or not those colts and geldings will go to turns in the race is probably a little bit more chalky with the contenders least in my opinion the The one that Marcus focused on diamond solitaire. Who he actually made His best bet he. He thinks that philly continues to ascend and i. I know it was only three quarters but the race that Very emilia in fact. We talked about her. I think Bell around that time when when she One that allowance For for duran and that was a terrific effort. And i don't know if she can stretch out successfully But that's the that's the key in here. Very amelia But marcus made a strong case. Diamond solitaire yeah. I would make the same strong case. I'm when they added blinkers. She turned out to be Even a better philly than once she has been in the past. I mean that was not very fast paced at all on may thirteenth mean. They went fifty one and four fifths. The have i mean they were casual is With a capital. C is the description for that early pace and diamond. Solitaire was not stats far behind. But just in golf. The the leaders at the top of the stretch and it was by by time at at that point. That's solitaire just Was to me was a A performance of of the week type of of race from her. So yeah. she's my my with my optic and she's potentially a single for me as well Very amelia is interesting You know. I had to give her support in the morning. Line and at seven to two based off just that the number that she got but it wasn't dirt sprint. I thought she was doing her best. She's a hard trying. Billy i thought she was doing her. Best bright up until the sixteenth ball. And then sandra kind of You know eased up a little bit honor still kinda showed the the crop of the last sixteen but she said to route rates is granted one on a wet track and one on the turbine. Both races have not been the best in the world You know they added blinkers to starts ago You know she's going to have to prove it to me I like her but i. I don't like her at at a mile. Sixty and going up against diamond solitaire Others in here timeless glory finished second diamond styles here last time. I always thought she had talent. She seems to be getting better. Here's the third race off layoff. She had a lot of. She showed a lot of ability last year. And if she's going to be able to win at this level. I think this would be at route raised. I think this would be the day that she's gonna show at pearl tiara. Lost hungarian princess to starts going swiftly side steaks with a huge favourite delivered as the favourite show. One route race But she had the rail and that was a very strong rates from top to bottom last year and it was at the end of last year. So she she has built an excuses for that that bad performance in november seventeenth. I surprised she runs A decent as well but My top pick is Is diamond solitaire. I in that six race. What are your thoughts on the voice. Well there's a lot of question marks. I got comments may have distance questions. And i got speed aplenty. I mean look at this race you got. Nobody listened to won his last. Two and is is a very very fast gelding. And he's trying to turn for the first time and he has sprinter breeding and he's got the inside and you know he's gonna get bad but you know i i. I have my question. I question with with his first. Raising d- winners asset that this is a whole different test because you got speed like sky judge on the outside a few too many who are also Orces with questions going around two turns a few too many has tried route raising the past. The indiana futurity didn't do that great But it's come back as run. Both races have been pretty darn good In in dirt sprints the one i can make a case for that is now going around race for the first time in two thousand and twenty one is sudden shift a son of unbridled express. We talk about ad nauseam on the show. Steve likes turf but also going to turn go back to its racist. Last year he broke the mate and when he stretched out the first time. Yeah it was just a maiden race but he went by twelve legs then. They put him in the indian. If you already in the early pace was not fastnet. Race at all in the indian november seventeenth and he finished. He finished a decent second. Now he's gonna get all sorts of speed in the race. Nobody listens few too many skyjacked. Anybody else who wants to go out there and crackheads and i think sudden shift at fifteen two one is Certainly one that needs to be used for sure In your in your pick five tickets. Yeah i'm poking around. There's just too many. There is a few too many with michelle elliott but no the There's just too many horses that are stretching out that and when you get that mean just horses that are naturally that are just naturally fast in stride. Even horse sudden shift who as a sprinter is usually a couple of links off of it. Well you know a couple of links office forty six and change The horse that that appeals is attis back to me at fifteen two one from looking for a price. And i've any chance i get to bet noble's promise The the kennedy mcpeek wonderful. Wonderful noble's promise and willie martinez nobles provice But i thought that he's backed might be the right price to play around with your certainly won his maiden race and the right way. It was just a field five. I'm just looking at the horses. Beat he didn't really beat very much buddy slowly but surely getting better You know he's somebody i might. You might be able to convince me to throw them in underneath the try. I don't know these ready to win this type of race. But he is getting slowly. But surely you know. I for me a sudden shifts Live at long shot than daddy's back But you know. I didn't put an extra room but just put it that way. Yeah i get sudden shift has got an i talked. I talked sudden shift up earlier to with Marcus love dr gorham and barker sticks and This is horse. Marcus pointed out. And you mentioned got got much better when stretching out last fall so sudden shift that fifteen two one and if you're looking for more than one big price that he's back the five As well my you know sit very comfortably right behind the speeds and might get Actually might be might pair up with sudden shift in that regard I think sudden shift is very a very much more of a tractable Type horse Those are the two stakes they go at five and six zero to any any thing that jumps off the page for your bill that wraps around the stakes. Oh thumbing through everything once again here. i mean. I think it's a okay. Let's talk seven indiana bread Philly mayor Allowance race going mile on the turf. And i think this race is is wide open ahead to make a very tepid savored shan. Danna the the one horse The favourite but She's taking on the turf for the first time in a row for the first time. So she's got all sorts of of question marks about her and there is a Philly that is making her turf debut. Try to try to be in a turf race in her last couple of races and they've been taken off the turf due to rain and that's the seminar bumble of love. A daughter hampton another vitrenko mayor who has produced three turf winners. So there's interpreting up and down for especially for an indiana bread and you know she's finished issues in this race as well last raises But they were both on dirt. I always wanted to see her on turf. And i get the I get the chance today because looks like it's going to be pretty Dry weather in the fumble of love at eight to one i thought was Another Horse that you need to throw in in your in your pick. Five ticket. Very nice and A terrific sequence and again to close out the week We look ahead tomorrow's card Nice big bulky fields so a terrific stakes day indiana and then later Into the early evening and into the full fledged evening At canterbury as well build nothing tomorrow because nothing next week. I should say because we're on vacation but Um certainly getting excited and looking forward to indiana derby week In two weeks two weeks from today. July seven thirty. You know you hear name and you know whether or not they show up or not. That's another thing. But i've heard basis for greg for foley and I heard about mr wireless as well for calhoun so Those are just a couple of names. I don't know. I haven't seen anything that's Told me otherwise. They're going anywhere else but those those dame's will start to get Narrowed down of that As we as we get closer. I know entries. I think nominations closed the day. Nominations closed at least get a list and then we can kind of start crossing off horses and and get a better fine tune that list. Well we'll see if we'll see if everybody. i'm not sure if everybody that's Entered at The ohio derby if they're all gonna go sometimes When we when we start to get the regional derbies rolling in. We'll we'll see some cross entry fact. Yesterday i had I had phil. D'amato and phil has got a horse entered in that Lady jacqueline and he said that he very well may not Run there and he might come for the general assembly. I'll be good bigly. I very good all right. You late breaking news well and we hope nobody's late breaking today out of the gate but bill will note it if they do bell enjoy the afternoon. We'll be watching later and benton and i'll to you in two weeks have happy fourth often. Thanks steve bill downs. Everybody build downs one on your twitter and in addition to do a great job on the mike Bills got a very good opinion. We've had a lot of fun in the last few years Going over these cards and the good racing today that then we'll take you into the evening at canterbury We'll stay right here and I think we've got lenny showman standing by and in my hands diane. I'm holding in my hand. They box of chocolate. Bunnies lenny shamans head to head there. A twin peaks reference for those of you that that are completely lost That's my my reference. Lenny awarded the ron jeremy reference anyway. But i'm tom may now. You know what this is your third opinion. I think third appearance in four weeks. Another couple of visit. You'll be joey bishop. I get like the cup like qinglin. Or how does that work. You get a dixie cup. Thank you me. A perfect The two cents plain Lenny the book came on saturday. And i was just. It was just delighted. Because i you know i. I knew you'd made certain references. The book is head to head conversations with a generation of horse racing legends and this also from university of kentucky press and last week. I referenced that when jamie nicholson was on with us and we were pushing Summer reading your your summer reading list With the to nicholson books. But this lemme you. You hinted about this. Maybe three years ago that you had the idea of collating these These interviews and these Conversations and talk about pulling them all together and and picking and choosing the ones that went into head-to-head. Yeah this is Yeah i it's a cross section of people who you end up talking to through the years and the there were just some really natural you know breakdowns and in the sections I i've let jockeys out of this. Because i i you know i have already done a jockey. Books so them aside It it just sit really nicely into into certain categories. I came to realize how you know. How many important And accomplished women i. I have interviewed through the years and it just struck me that horse race thing. You know it doesn't get the credit it's really the only sport where men and women compete together a on a level playing field. There's no separate league you know. There's no separate nation and I i've just been so fortunate to you. Know talk to people through the years like mary lou whitney and charlotte and barbara banke and trump the candy. Helen alexander josephine abercrombie. You know maggie mark Just so many people so that was a great section that came together and you know celebrities. I've been fortunate enough to to talk. To people. Like sam sheppard and both derek and david milton rick pitino and mike them periodically through the years. And you know this thing just kind of put itself together and it's not to any great writing feet of my own that i say this but but it's because of the interview subjects. It's just a lot of great and valuable information in here and great stories that all these people tell in their own words you know. I mean to hear. Bobby frankel talk about you. Know how he trains and how he changed the way people train. You know talk to tom. Derrick about bringing racing into the modern era from the way it used to be presented. Same with the great acog for tony leonard. How penny january. I was just so fortunate that she opened up to me about not only your feelings about her great horses but the mistake she made was with secretary through the years so they are just fantastic stories and information in here not not to my doing but but but drew these great people that i've been fortunate enough to talk to a couple of things lenny and just was it hadn't occurred to me until you until you mentioned Certain names but and i want to give people an idea of of some of the inclusions How many are are referenced that earlier absent friends and penny chinnery And bobby that you bring up tony leonard As well cot campbell The just just a a handful. Mary lou whitney That gives you an idea. And here's the veterinarian. Section dr copeland We just lost doctor levin what Six eight weeks ago. Yeah yeah Bob and beverly lewis. Yeah you know. There's a section on kentucky derby winners and and able to spend the day with with five lewis and you know and there's another section on on the great farm managers in a great farm owners in kentucky that i call kentucky hard boots but you know most solid these guys. Unfortunately we've lost and these these were the guys who plan the matings and raise the horses and you know the the these are the guys who really made history. People like bob court charlie nockles and and and henry wide and is are wet. The johnny jones. I mean you know thank thankfully some are still with us. Arthur hancock and governor jones and And and a couple of others. But you know you're you're right we've unfortunately lost so many of these folks and i think you know this book work not only as as a horse racing's books that it really works on a level of a history book you know as far as documenting really the last half of the twentieth century when a lot of these guys were in their prime Certainly they were with us through the first years of this century also but but it really is a historical documents. And and i just feel like it's so valuable to have you know talked to a guy like bob. Four million gotten his feelings on how to raise worse before they pass off the scene. Because you know the these guys were concentrated horsemen well in on that topic Most people i think from horse player From i guess worse player standpoint and a casual fan standpoint as opposed to stakeholders and and people who are directly involved there. You know there's going to be some of these reeds that People are very familiar with the the individuals involved in your mentioned some. But then you're going to get to some sections like in you know in the heart boot Chapters where somebody like ted car Is going to be a fascinating. I mean this to to put a parallel on on on the fact that book. You competed with You know better lucky than good that that was the beauty of of that book that that you you were introduced to people and you were provided perspectives and and a knowledge about the game and about the industry and the sport that you otherwise were you know you. You didn't know and Having you know having somebody like ted car Answer these questions and walk people through you. Know his his invaluable understanding and experience. I mean that that's an important thing to have recorded history. You may not know ted cars but you. You wouldn't have known cigars name if it wasn't thirteen car. And his son. Max who who saved them as a yearling when he ran through a fence and wanted to kill himself And of course orig- all of the great allen paulson horses Through the year. So so yeah the. These guys were absolutely crucial to this. End the see. But you're right on on the other level you know to you. Know to to read a guy. Like sam sheppard who i. I don't know if i've ever been more intimidated by meeting. Somebody that i that i was by sitting down with sam sheppard But but suck guys like kevin david milch just guys who are here as far as you know being you know just being a writer on any level and being able to sit down with guys like these and you know be able to talk for a guy like rick pitino. Just couldn't wait to talk of course is just so sick of talking about skin off that he loves sucking yours is. The imperial e is a humongous horse. Fan joe torry. These guys are like kids in a candy shop when you see him at the racetrack. so yeah it's It's a great cross section of people. And i'm just so so happy with the way it turned out that you know we read about all of these in under one roof and i and i hate to. I hate to make this reference but there are some inclusions here that You know obviously this is over the course of of your writing career. So there are some inclusions on very sadly probably couldn't have had these conversations you know recently or more presently so again have these they have these aura. But essentially it's an oral history. Yeah you're exactly right see. It's an oral history that i've taken off to cakes and you know. Put down on the page. But you're exactly right. These are these are not the articles either. Just the raw question. Answer interviews that i've preserved for this book so so you don't have to go through the filter of of my writing. It really is the interviews and the questions and answers in their original flora minor. Editing but I it's very unfiltered and You know a guy like david milch shoe more fascinating guy that you could talk to. I don't know who it could have been Because when you talk to a day the most there is no filter it's like he's taken sodium pentothal and there's nothing he's not going to talk out and there's nothing he's not going to be under percent on it out and Just as an example he almost got me fired like one year into my career You know david was an addictive addictive personality. Who unfortunately it's turnout lost millions gambling. But you know it was also addicted to heroin early. Earn his wife and Made the statement that you know a race going off half hour to him is like you know jabbing a needle into his arm every half hour while the president of togo at that time. I didn't much liked that reference and went to the publisher of the blood who has an asked from my scalp And now i be fired immediately and blessed. That was almost the end of my career before i've not heard that story before And who who beat the who. Who was the publisher. At the time i was i was gonna ask. And i'll tell you the jack ass was it if you want me to also but that's that's entirely up to you all right. I'll put the filter on his point. The it's funny. The the names and i just kind of looking at at the ones that then i that i've interviewed myself and that i treasure and From that you know. Obviously bobby top of that list. But but from the from the non Trainer side governor jones and jerry jones There isn't anybody. I respect more Just i mean i a real treasure and Of course has taken up the mantle that at airdrie for his father But you talked to him in two thousand and four You know so it. I suppose some of these. Some of these are going to be I imagine timestamped right. I mean there's there's going to be only the the experiences up. Some some are more historic like a penny january but others were their career zurve in full flight. Yeah thing you bring up rare jones and the thing i always take out vite interview with him was You know. I asked them how many massey have and he said something. Like one hundred seventy five unite said. I'd be bored to death. If i only had senator twelve mares and i said well who does the meeting because i did the meetings for all this is what's fun for me you know i i. I'll never listen to a bloodstock. Never two months and you think the itself mating one hundred and seventy five mares every year you know how how much you need to love this to to do that. And and and the guy comes up with three kentucky who enters so far you know It's remarkable how many there's thirty seven conversations here lenny. How many did you have to choose from actually Probably a hundred. I would say you know like i said. I've kind of taken the jockeys out. Because i did that already and i just i just wanted to present what i thought were the best stories Go in with preconceived categories. I just wanted to go back and re read all of these and really think to myself. You know who were the best interview subjects purely on on substance in what they told me and And these are them. And and i just I'm just so pleased with at all in going back. And reword rereading these and editing on then you know boiling down. There's just so much that you learn every time you get go through there and you know parts of them just give me chills to hear these guys in their own voices It's just knowledge. You can't get you just can't get it anywhere else. And i really think these people i there were just so were coming for the most part to me which. I can't thank each of them enough for because you know the things. They in florida just critical for anybody who loves this game and wants to further And there's you know the one name on here. Nobody is going to know and his name is. Es clark junior and his son of brought him to the blood horse one day he was not one of the original black jockeys who became grooms that he was the next generation of guys who hung around and eventually became a groom for Ben johnson and kelly and walked with citation on the walk over to the kentucky derby Rub ponder who win the following year's kentucky and was actually there when ben jones was giving the instructions. Eddie arcaro unless appear in about how to ride citation and called down in the derby that year which is become a a huge point of contention in history. You know in the annals of force racing and mr clock was there that day and His remembrances are here in this book. And i was just so on or did after. I got to interview him. I got to take them over. To cal- you met farm. Even though he had been working for directly for so many years you've never gotten to the farm and be able to walk around with him in the cemetery and listened to him emotionally talk about the horses that he had his hands on. And that's just you know. Forget i a lovely lenny and Looking at it here. Es clark junior. And i actually thought through just to see if there was a picture. But they're they're actually there isn't And that is something. I should mention the the photographs That were selected Th-the some care went into that too And the pictures are really nice. Compliment to to the conversations. Yeah i i. I wish we hit included more of but Yeah and i wanna thank If i could give a special shout out to my good friend wrote a ferrara yearly departed library. Not that she's not with us anymore but she's not at keeneland anymore where she used to be the librarian And is so if you talk to jamie he he would say the same thing if you talked to. Anybody has written a book about arts raising in the last ten or fifteen years. So i'll tell you what an enormous health road. is because in researching and getting these photographs out so that they can be used in these books and she just couldn't have been any kind or in helping put together some big shout out the road well and for instance the picture Some of them. Are you go further back. Obviously than the conversation but There's a wonderful picture of helen alexander next to the king ranch pickup truck which is really cool. That's great yeah that that that is the werner. That's a great shot. Yeah one of the things about about the book two when it comes to those families like You know like a helen. Alexander and the names that the people see whether their historic or or current and helen alexander is both You you'll you'll get some insights into some of the histories As well so. There's there's just there's so many aspects of this from the business side to the as you mentioned the insights and the breeding ted bassett's Inclusion here certainly appropriate and There's no i there's really no piece of this that is not going to engage people You know you've got Mrs weber so enjoy and maggie mawson here. I mentioned mary lou. it it's It's just gonna be. I think One of those things that people can sit down and they're gonna read right through this and in short order. It's a perfect summer reading addition to everybody's list. Yeah and charles. The who you know is on tv anymore. We kinda forget that is such a joy just has always been such a joy to talk to And who has such funny story to sell fish she. She was reluctant versus the to be picked to be on tv. But you know you you would know by by watching and listening to her because she seems such a natural that they had literally dragged her out. A frankly i sleep. The cat rights is You know she was. She would be good at it and it says that shoes. She was such a blessing. This industry for so many years now to head conversations with a generation of horse racing legends university of kentucky press and and as i said last week with jamie nicholson The uk press as is such a remarkable outlet in whatever arena. Whatever discipline that they you know. They green light books. I mean they they are. They are an author's friend To say the least letty and Was there was there any hesitation. How much pitching was necessary to to land To land a deal with this book. Yeah no hesitation at all That really embraced it from the get-go Just the choice to work with You know really let the they let their writers you know right in the fashion that they want to and now it's just great to work for you know i i try to get them to charge you for the book i sent out to the they wouldn't even take money such the kind of people they let's speaking of which in terms of ordering and in terms of Preorder and delivery where things stand. Yeah you can go right to kentucky press dot com and order it right from the publisher Amazon it's up there. hasn't been officially released. So it's an preorder phase. It will be shipped Sometime in july to you if you order it now But it is it avezzano as it kentucky press dot com will be barnes and noble and all that. Good stuff and Really i i i would. I would almost venture that to offer a money back guarantee. Because i'm on just that certain people will find so much enjoyable about this that i can't wait to get it out there because i i just enjoy i pick it up at any point in the book and i start reading and you know it's an hour later and i said okay i gotta go walk the dog but But yeah. I really have high hopes for this and i. I truly think anybody who loves to send. The street will enjoy that canada's well and when they're while they're there and ordering They can they can order all the other titles discography. Yeah and i right now tentatively I will be signing at nor shar books on broadway in saratoga august and One of the subjects Has agreed to sit with me Tom burke and is gonna do this signing with cool and unless he backed ad in which case i'll have to get a replacement but But tom is the as agreed to to do that with me. Which i'm just thrilled. Thrilled beyond belief that so August six Six o'clock David before the whitney come on out and get your copy there at north shire. And i'm very excited about that and you know tom. Tom can be mayor saratoga anytime he wishes to run. Obviously well i. You know hearing this now. I wish i could've gotten tom. Durkin to sign the as a witness on on our wills Ah ah skip fix facts. That is actually in the background and When you come to town obviously we will We will feature you on loose on the lead. Seth marrow are you with us. I am i am interview. We gotta have money on. When we're when we were up the sunday show syracuse alumni. Show very good. the cruel loves. You'll any the cruel loves you. They they're waiting for the lenny appearance every year. Now i have. An amazing appeals for guys can wear kilts for some kilt waiting A good well. And so the whitney. I if if you're doing this friday august sixth So let's pencil him. In for the eighth sunday we'll promo the science. Come on the get whether it well you know how long. How long are you going to be in town. I am not coming up early this year. I'm coming up in late july because my house is vacant. And i'm doing an extended visit. Oh that's tremendous while we've been waiting everybody's been waiting for you to you know to move into that house. You bought that house. What six seven years ago already. Twelve nicer unbelievable. All right so then. The sap is right on top of this and so We're gonna we're gonna look for yeah exactly Makes it yeah. Well what can i tell you so Hold on sunday august. First day sunday august. I think you'll see lenny on the show. And you know if you're gonna stay for august when i leave to go to del mar and debate you. Could you could jump in you. You could really be joey bishop. And here's your chance. I like that. Yeah yeah i'll be doc severinsen great. Yeah all right. Don't be don't be joan rivers though all of a sudden your over your over tv g competing with make i you know. I actually once sat with joan rivers and her dog in the sound booth. At bally's in las vegas are watching andrew dice clay perform so we joan and i have quite a history like the way i would have liked to have set next to joan rivers. Well andrew dice. Clay was before. I'm assuming she was a fan. She wants to fan. She wasn't fan out to yes. Yes yes So that that's the downriver sword. But you know i am very tight with melissa as well as the daughter so i can make that happen for that. That that Anything anything to take away from me is is is a winner with the with the fans. Bring melissa rivers and jon lovitz. Well we'll have a great show. Oh man yeah. Liar and jerry garcia's birthday august berg salsa. So are you did you. Are you going to go to deadandcompany before travers. You know i actually. I hard core You know Having seen the real thing. I i do not go to then company interesting. I'd yeah i'd without jerry. It is not Something that i would be afraid to go see quite honestly And without bill last year as well so now i don't do that but but i i certainly relish the seventy five shows. I did got say so. That's a nice good. that's three. I remember actually. Thank god for the tape so i know what happened and you know like you mentioned that you know you. Obviously you in and sat there are syracuse alums and colgate for me and the dead whenever they whenever they were marauding Across one part of the state to another or if they were heading for ohio or or you know heading for pennsylvania western pennsylvania they would they would make stops at cornell at syracuse at colgate very famous show. Actually the i know the colgate. Joe i saw them at cornell In that would have been what seventy nine was it. Yep yep was air The colgate show is phenomenal Seventy eight i want to say. Seventy seven seventy seven seventy seven hours. It was a blizzard Great show yes. They would hop the nate utica appleton syracuse rochester buffalo. I was working a lot of schoolwork going on those week. Well and and so the credit to the the the way the. What's amazing about this. Is that the you know. The student associations at at places like cornell colgate syracuse had. I'm sure a lot of schools or anybody went and they were in touch with booking agents and if if there was an open night in between you know a show at it albany at the knickerbocker and in in buffalo at the odd. They would get acts like this. And colgate had a famously a series of incredible shows including the dead and also Famously springsteen on on an off night and small venues yes arenas these were for like high school gym type of lices. Yeah well coal gates are colgate gates jim. The colorado court holds two thousand five hundred amazing little feet. We saw little feat not long before. George died and bob marley to the halloween. Show nineteen eighty which was unbelievable. Great stuff yeah funny funny and of course for those of you that the because i have to bring it up. Whenever we're all together like this i guess Eleni an i not far apart and we didn't know this until fairly recently we both worked at the united daily dispatch. I saw your quits recently. That you posted on social media phenomenal Yeah what. I just great memories right. I mean just a phenomenal marijuana. Great place to gain experience for a writing career on to persons sports desk and my added ours. The second guy and my editor couldn't write a lick but but was a great editor. Who taught me how to be an editor and you know is A a a skill that served me in great stead ever since and Man on night it was it was just a great place to start Really was that is crazy. Small world coincidence. If you're talking about small we're did you vote Cover little vernon downs. I did on the only one of the number one guy took a few days off because he would do that he loved doing that. But yeah we we would Make selections at vernon Every every day. That was running. Absolutely i did as well although i was not. The i was not the prime guy for for vernon downs. But i i put that feature up recently about harry hogan that That was the thing that lenny's referring to but my my beat was farm. The farm news of which there was no shortage and Religion news and of course tee shots. My golf column You know. Mrs mrs marian. Whiteley scored a per-. I hold one hundred and five yard. Par three thunderbird country club catastophe. This is what. I had a weekly column as well called the behind the bench called and i successfully pick the yankees to beat the dodgers and six games on the eve of the seventy seven world series. And i hit it right on ahead so i was. I was one for one in my world series nas and they are a daily i. There was no there was no experience. I been thrown out of school for a year and Rather than rather than go back to connecticut and face my parents. I taught john hubbard john. Hubbard got me John was a columnist for for the this batch and my good friend and and He got me he got me. The job there was opening and ended up being. You know a tremendous year and a half gig until i graduated from colgate I lived in. I lived right night. I lived in a little apartment. That rent i think was one hundred and ten dollars a month Which i remember. I remember it was just over a hundred bucks. It was It was a great community. So if you had the picture next to the teashops column. They recognized supermarket. Oh sure sure poor. Four the casino being up You know and there was a small town. And i'll tell you the one memory of vernon downs. It was the first race track. I was ever at a where i saw people. Three folding chairs to sit on the is looking at this i i. I've never heard of this before. It's pretty funny. Well that that. That was the topic earlier this earlier. This morning with pat mckenna. Joined us Head-to-head latest book. And he's got a million of conversations with a generation of horse racing legends. We just had a conversation with a generation of horse racing legends lynch marrow. Seth gets recognized all over the place every pictures on the wall. Hey now eight now. I if i don't talk to you talk in two weeks where i'm vacation next week. Okay next wednesday and look forward to come down the road and looking forward to august personnel and money sitting next to us up outstanding. Seth marrow len showman earlier. Bill downs and the action. Now this afternoon at indiana and marcus. Hearst joined us to talk about the terrific turf festival action this evening at canterbury. Good luck to them pat mckenna as well as we got everybody situated with their ticketing for the saratoga summer season and fernanda sire watch pedigree focused brought to you by hill and dale. Good luck today. Everybody talk to you in the morning. At the races here sirius. Xm summit the apple. God she does bryden down by the. There is a so z. Racing at the reasons. With steve on sirius. Xm radio horseplay. Here's the southern california. Daytime thoroughbred racing circuit is back at los alamos racecourse. Exciting summer meet. Day is friday. June twenty fifth. And we'll one through monday july fifth. I post once again. Pacific and has always exciting racing. Action is ahead are opening weekend features bertrando steaks on saturday. June twenty six followed by a great fourth of july weekend embracing on saturday. july third. the los alameda sturdy heads the marquee past winners of this race include eclipse award winners accelerate shared belief game winner and more on sunday. July fourth los alamitos will host a live money handicapping contests with two berths to the twenty twenty two. Nhc up for grabs and on closing day. Monday july fifth the racing action will be headed by the great lady m states force. Please remember the los alamitos features of traditional two dollars. Pick six with a seventy thirty split this summer. Citing daytime thoroughbred racing back at los alamitos race course for more visible alameda dot com.

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