Recapping a crucial federal leaders debate

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All right this is front burner fasciitis this is a CBC podcast Hello I'm Jay parcel and today where the two of them stand in the polls there naked neck any little bit of movement can start momentum going and then can change the trajectory of the election for either party so something that demarcated his performance I guess and his approach to the debate right right away right and and then they also have this thing in the debate where the leaders ah who works on and I say that because if you're a person who just sat down and watched that entire debate from start to finish and let's say you weren't super decided yet no that did not work on you fire the only two people in your caucus who are speaking out against what you're trying to do just for telling the truth tell me when did you decide that the thought he can't even remember how many times he put black face on because the fact of the matter is he's always wearing a mask he puts on a reconciliation mask and then fires we're going to break down the federal leaders debate the first featuring old six major party leaders it was a real chance for all of them to sell you on their vision for this the Attorney General the first one of indigenous background he puts on a middle-class mask and then raises taxes on Middle Class Canadians was definitely asked other leaders questions which I kind of loved because he didn't end up asking questions they just sort of ended up asking questions statements that were quite allstone apply to you yeah but a boom earn yeah I mean very purposeful move by Mr Scherr it was clear from the outset not just in the to drop it was a very pointed attack from Mr Sheer towards Mr Trudeau not that we didn't expect there to be those kinds of attacks but right away he called him a phoney and a fraud start right away with Andrew share what do we see from injury share right at the gate so right out of the gate it was possibly the moment that I think caused the most jaws and so how did he do there yeah he's basically positioning himself again solely versus Mr Trudeau as I'm GonNa make your life less expensive it wasn't a surprise that he was so directly aimed at Mr Trudeau and I think also it was a bit based on or at least Genesis Genesis of it rather was a bit based on conservative voter the stuff under share was saying resonates with you and in fact his performance probably the forcefulness with which he delivered those statements also resonates with you which eight of their lines verbatim so they had to land those messaging points because even if a portion of the audience is new to becoming engaged in this election surprise it almost seems so he was ready for the fight this do you think these negative attacks work is a good strategy for injuries here so it depends on country so let's get right to it let's not waste any time here Fascia Palos his here host of power and Politics Hive Ashi Hi Jamie thanks for being here my pleasure then yes you haven't the opportunity to communicate the essence of your campaign and I think actually to be fair both of them did that in this debate is the last debate the French one for tale where Mr Trudeau had come out very strong enforced kind of attacking Mr Shear off the bat and it had sort of like taking Mr Central Campaign theme affordability it's time for Canadians to have a break are universal tax cut will mean eight hundred fifty dollars in the pocket of a hardworking average income Katie speaks to the strategy that the Conservatives are employing right now which is to motivate they're already very secure base to go out and vote tells you a lot about what they think their chances are and where voting booth the other thing that was pretty clear to me was at Andrew Scheer wanted to take every opportunity he had when he wasn't hammering Trudeau to hammer home his the polls are right now because in a breakdown where each side the liberals and the Conservatives have a hold of their base it's about motivating them to get vote for you right right they just want to get them to the around the world I don't I don't know if it really chipped away at the conservative vote I mean time will tell on that I don't know how effective they were felt like Mr Bernie was kind of all of he just immediately turns to Trudeau he gets quite a few laughs and he just nails him on Avalon and ethical breaches and feel like I'm a bad judge of how this went over only because I've heard both their lines on these subjects ad nauseam three million times and I can't take it anymore purpose I my guess is that they maybe didn't in fact they probably help Mr Shears 'cause only in so far as Mr Scherr was able to say look can absolutely be proud of Canada's history you can be proud of our identity you can be proud of the things we've done and accomplished in the world while at the same time welcoming people from all had seventy billion dollars debt and you are you a real conservative no I think you are liberals and like what did he the map and saying what are the things that he said before without a ton of like factual evidence to back up the things he was saying and then he just pivoted after Trudeau you could see that's where his attention was yes very much so Mr Trudeau Trudeau is going to make it more expensive are universal tax cut drastically is is much better for middle income canes than his proposal just for those of us who have heard this like you know false dichotomy five hundred tonnes overhead also just talking about sweet burns tonight there was that really good who are likely to become prime minister why wasn't I hearing more from both of them and I'm not saying that's a slug on any of them I do think that is a function primarily of the format more we're going to give this tax cut. The child fitness tax credit the Green Home Tax Credit Trudeau makes her life more expensive the carbon tax and then Trudeau says you guys own in the tenor that his comments took were that question that you're referencing but that he was it was like all eyes are on for him in this debate and that's understandable given he's getting a lot of questions particularly from Elizabeth May in this debate on that and about some of the claims he makes about the progress that his government has made parts of credit for that industry are also got attacked from the right maxine Bernie a you don't want to balance the budget in two years you will in kinds of questions coming at them but Trudeau did spend some time during the night defending his record when he did know what was he defending and how Oh and I think it would just turn you off politics as a whole and that that's a statement on lots of the cross talk to the whole thing nobody can nobody acc says we must do and he was getting a lot of questions from Andrew Scheer on the whole messaging around affordability Justin Trudeau's attack on small businesses about how he's too close to corporations basically into Corporate Candida into wealthy Canadians you criticized Mr Harper and conservatives on giving billions to billionaires in corporations on from Andrew Scheer turned trudeau invoking Doug Ford you seem to be oddly obsessed with provincial politics there is a vacancy do you think he did he was defending it in the same way that he has for the past two years I would say on many of the same issues primarily climate they talk about Trudeau so I found myself a few times this debate I don't know if you would agree with me nothing about climate change were the only to do something choice tonight is do we pick a government that doesn't believe in climate change or in fighting like I could literally delivery explain how they would work he had a lot of airtime but I'm not sure really Like Landon any knockout blows on sheer I mean share basically address Maxime Bernier as though and this could be a function of the format as well but I felt like there wasn't enough trudeau and share you know like I if you're sitting there and you're deciding between the two to new markets so we can invest all all the resources all the money coming in from this pipeline into that green energy transition and while it sound so far which earned completely true the scientists clear your target is a commitment to failure. That's why it's so doable and achievable because it doesn't do what the for example the pipeline that maybe you do need to get resources to market but you also should be protecting the environment and and it sounds like a contradiction at times coming from him but I think there's a reason that he keeps using the threatening them making it harder for them to grow and expand and offer the types of opportunities that lead to the jobs that have much higher income earnings and even from Jagmeet Singh it's more than than removing it does and yeah I I agree with you that you know part of this as a function of the debate there were a lot of players on that stage and a lot of different types of middle ground lines and that's because there's a large swath of voters lying there okay so we spend a Lotta time defending his record but I have to say I didn't hear him hear what you're saying we'll be signing if you are a conservative voter and this is who I think in a and from speaking people on the war room this is who this was aimed at if you are leaning concern into invest in the middle class and people working hard to join it lifted nine hundred thousand people out of poverty including three hundred thousand kids we gave more support for students going do lie in that space right like there's a lot of people in the middle who I'm not saying this subscribe to the Justin Trudeau version of it or the low version of it but they do believe on issues of in the context of a debate very wishy washy because others are able to take a very concrete position in fact if you look through much of the polling out there a lot of Canadian really not right like there wasn't a lot of stuff put in the window but at the same time that is also a function of what we were just talking about that he was getting Criticize tried to yeah so you know shears question may pick any leader of your choice than any question of your choosing is an attacked whatever you WANNA call it from all sides during this debate so most of his quote unquote airtime was basically just trying to defend himself against that you gave fourteen billion more questions this why do you keep letting down the people that voted for you he uses similar defense which is that he has in a lot of these subjects which is asking myself where is Justin Trudeau and what did you make of his performances. He felt a bit absent to me on on several occasions. Yeah I did I did feel talk a lot about what he wanted to do with his next mandate do you think that that's enough right to just defend what you did in the previous four years and that but yeah he was I mean he was part of the debate he wasn't he certainly wasn't like dominating Mr Trudeau five seconds are a price on pollution helps Canadian to put more stuff out there more details about what he has planned but essentially the liberals home messages like we've done an okay job so keep us going right like keep keep voting for raise a good question like is that enough for people who are looking for something where substantial when deciding what snacks getting it from both flanks their industries basically saying you're spending your way you know you're spending your way to a bad situation for Canadians in juggling his talking will we may go more supports for seniors yeah again I feel like if you're somebody watching trying to make up your mind about who to entrust the government with over the next four years problem oh he does not have four years of leadership to run on what was he pitching Canadians tonight and how did he do I think if he pitched anything successfully tonight it was himself I I know there's a lot of other things specifically that has platform gets into I don't know if that was necessarily the strongest part of his performance about extreme he did I was actually really interested to see if the attacks from the right vis-a-vis Max would have an impact in this debate and I'm not an you think this I think this especially like on issues of immigration or the more extreme issues that Bernie has talked about before what Mr Bernie fails understand is that went out of the courts but he's GonNa drag indigenous kids to court that is wrong yeah positions he's articulated before in he did so confidently tonight I thought the let's Jagmeet Singh next who I will say I think doesn't distract the middle ground basically on climate for example Yes we bought a pipeline but either you have to grow the economy and you also have to protect the environment we need to get all right he said something like I don't even know who I'm talking to the maxine Bernie from the one thousand nine hundred who was a separatist was that the vaccine Bernie who is minister responsible for handing out corporate welfare thing that really set him apart from the crowd tonight was his disposition his level of comfort and almost an ability that the others didn't have tonight the fortunes of over twenty million dollars we're GONNA ask them to pay a little bit more yes we think they should very critical of the liberals on indigenous issues he wanted to fight hard to keep snc the same thing so yeah slogan move forward with a yeah so it it speaks a little bit too to that as well but Mr Missing Pardon me Mr Scherr over deal I dunno people giving me mix up option there is another option out there but he did have a very tough question to contend with from just introduced bill. twenty-one the bill messed up because those are pretty horrible tweets that you made in that's I don't mean that as like a very specific criticism of the other people like I could not imagine being in their shoes for sure even into this debate or Larry last week has he has I think you can you can say that he has outperformed them and I think that translated tonight he act prevents public service workers from wearing religious symbols like his jabs in turbans on the job the federal government under you would not intervene in the question of Bill Twenty you know basically an accusation that he's not GonNa do anything so I think if anything tempers the results of his performance tonight what part of the spectrum that you sit on he was probably the funniest tonight he had really good one line he has some really good one liners we WANNA do that again Mr Scherr thank you Ashley when the stakes are as high as they are for just drew Andrew Scheer but there is something to be said for the way in which he has conducted himself throughout this campaign so far Canadia he has ideas there he has positions on things there was nothing new again that he offered today that we hadn't heard dental care armageddon or tax the rich to pay for it just hedging of the question was really funny like I'm the only person who might do something I don't even know what that means how do you think Mr Singh handled like you said he had those one liners he was relaxed he seemed very knowledgeable about his own position and like had the ability to make jokes fact polling when it's just about his own numbers bears that out he has momentum behind him it hasn't yet translated to the party as full and I don't know maybe pseudo arguing over climate change he he just basically stopped and said look you do not need to choose between Mr Delay Mr deny there is another to be human and natural and stuff to ask questions front of big crowds and thanks for doing that I mean Mr Verde after hearing what was just said you could have just said hey kind of criticism you have failed to tell the truth is this scandal responsibility of any prime minister is to stand up for jobs and we would have done out maybe Tories Turban on purpose today what does it it was it was it was it was nice to watch seemed quite comfortable but unlike Trudeau one in Quebec it's a question where yes it's awkward politically because as Mr Blanchette says it is very popular I will say although Mr Saying saying you know I'm the only one who's going to do anything and to a degree I guess that's a bit true but none of them are really doing anything nobody wants to intervene in this thing we that that is still to happen maybe takes a bit longer to take hold but like for the expectations that he face coming into this campaign rate and land those one liners and seem yeah humidity's speaking of he probably have the one liner of the night when cheer and it all right and I know that we already saying is taking the position he is is because his caucus has insisted that he ends right like he's listening to his caucus they're saying please do not say that you're going to intervene so and basically every question he received in his scrum was around Bill twenty-one exactly as you described it Mr frame the question and was very pointed towards Mr Wien legally and as you and I have talked about many times you know the MVP is facing like a potential wipeout in Quebec and they have a lot of seats that they could lose their those writings and so he was allowed to participate in the debate to the ire of many of the other parties who said because of the views he espouses he shouldn't be on this stage talk of the debates Mr Bernie was not supposed to be in this debate the commission initially ruled that he could not participate he then was allowed to submit you know certain for the on -Tario liberal leadership and if you're so focused on provincial politics go and run for the leadership of that party and he basically say I have a shot at winning in these five writings the commission then set up polling in those five writings and found yes he does have shot at winning it's not a foregone conclusion that he will lose all AH lots in the air for for Mr Singing and EP in Quebec for a moment the controversy over having him there in the first place and what you think his presence at the debate resulted in it felt like it changed the first twenty minutes of the debate forty nine percent of our population believe that we must have fewer immigrants not racist they're not radical so yeah and Quebec is so important fourteen seats for the MVP they need to hold onto it in fact everyone I speak to in the campaign says the reason that Mr speech only when people are saying things that you want to hear you're asking let me answer it after a couple of minutes of this debate tonight I think people can clearly see why the pieces of data that that complied with or met the criteria that the commission had been assigned to decide on whether or not someone can participate what he did was. We'll be that question around bill twenty-one every single day of my life is challenging people who think that you can do things because of the way you look every single day my life I channel the frustration Sean Maxium Bernie a little bit we talked about maybe his message might not punch through he was kind of all over the place dealing with a lot of different topics but I want to talk about not even sure if if we would have been having that conversation around what makes a good leader and immigration had Maxim Bernie not have been there listing the chief financial financial officer of way way might have been a big mistake and so I just I just felt like that's a lot of Max I think you make a great point I was struck immediately by how much of an impact he had as a disruptor over the course of I would say maybe close to the first they all say they're watching it play it in the courts the differences and something that Mr Joe Actually surprisingly focused on her or emphasized today's that he says he's left the door open to inter and she said which I thought was super interesting and also I think a good place for us to end this conversation She raised the prospect of a minority government and it has agency and power to work together mission possible for climate action we call all hands on deck but I actually also want to focus on one thing the people and I want to be challenged and specifically actually a lot of what he said in the scrum afterwards French media picked up on the comments that both he and Mr Trudeau made she hit on her usual point of none of the leaders are hitting the right targets on emissions sheep after all of them for that we have to restore the idea of real democracy where every citizen the what case do you think she was trying to make to voters I think she's decided that the Liberals are going to win this election

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