Marty McDonald (BOV) Bad Rhino Social that Works
Recording sarah okay. Now i'm recording. So let's see if he can do it twice. Are we ready. I'm ready are you ready. I'm ready okay. Go hey this is mukunda from your wellness yogi dot com and you're listening to myth from broome beer whoo good job and not go all right. I'll be. I'll go away for a second. I'll be right back. Yes sir. are you ready to thoughtfully. Steer away from your revved up frenzied and far too often scripted life. Then welcome to room room. Veer with jeff smith where he guides you down. The road differently traveled by sharing unique experiences with guests who have managed to shift away from a life stuck on cruise control and veered their way into a more authentic and fulfilling one all sorts of interesting and kind of remarkable ways. Get ready to remove room beer with your differently. Traveled road chauffeured. Jaffa smith barney mcdonald. Thank you so much for being very very welcome to the show. How's it going man was going great. I'm really looking forward to a jeff. And i always have a great time soon. All sorts of podcast formats. Got me a little fired up today. Looks in just to have a great chat and we'll go from there. Yeah so talk. A little bit about Bad rhino inc dot com. And and what you've got going on that you're excited about today There's lots of stuff that i've gone It seems that way. Once you take a plunge into entrepreneurial land jer Everyday's always feel like that. And it's pretty much why i've been that is i like Of variety and the challenges that come up all the time. But you know we've been in business for seven years and social media. Marketing were in that focuses and leads with social media. That we don't do everything else that kind of releases to a digital marketing agency but we focused primarily on the social aspect. And how it fits into your marketing plan and we've had great success over the last seven years and hope to continue that in the future and Right now i'm super excited. 'cause i just put my first book out there yesterday. Wow wow for you So i just got a big box of them in in the office in in getting them out the door and it's called great beer not enough as we had a great crappier client for a while. And we've taken that knowledge and turn it into a few other clients but wanted to put a book out there One of my passions is craft beer. I don't know what that tells you about me but allows me out of tells me a lot because i used to homebrew so a cool. A couple buddies that did it. And it's a good batches. And some bad batches i i like it from the aspect of pulling communities together and people together and that's really what social media is all about is why it's drawn me into having my own agency within social media and i liked that aspect of community building small business arena as well as online. Yeah okay so this is room from vir. So part of what broom broom. Beer is all about talking about transitions but we also like tip toe through the tulips of your life. So let's go back in time and talk about Marnie mc donald's childhood. So where did you. where did you grow up. And and what sort of things did you do as a youngster sal. Back momo's forty two so we're in two thousand seventeen. I was born in one thousand nine hundred ninety five To great parents. I don't you know you can always talk about your parents. Like oh they're perfect. And ignore the worse but i saw the words. I saw the good stuff. I saw the bad stuff in two great people that always tried their best. And that was really instilled in me. All the time is you have to try your best and But no i mean. I was normal shy kid. I broke my arm when i was five. I have always one leg shorter than the other. So i had a lift in in a cast walking in the first grade or no kindergarten You know so. You have like those things that stick with the memories. But i was quiet kid. At times i was also allowed kid now. That sounds like totally different right. Yeah for the most part. I was like you know this little quiet. Shy kid in At school but you know outside of school. I think i was little bit different and grew up in did normal things. I played soccer I always would play street hockey. It was outside quite often de would always make go outside generation x. thing really because nowadays it's like every- everything's overly scheduled and require safety equipment for when we were kids right they were would kick us out of the house and and not leave at seven. Am and come back to me for lunch. Yeah no we had to check in once a day. That was the rule right swing by at some time between like a around lunchtime. I'm not only where you hungry. But you had to check in and we just go off in a lot of that stuff. You know Walking in the woods and riding bike through things and riding a bike not supposed to and then playing baseball and pick up football games and you were pennsylvania to just outside of philadelphia. Okay gotcha see. I was in. I was in michigan. So yeah our childhoods were very similar. I was born in sixty nine. So we're pretty close. I didn't see the big difference until they say like the late eighties early nineties. When i start meeting people that were born in that where they seem to be more structured. Like my sister. Who is eight years younger than i am. She had a little bit more structure in terms of activities. That she did she was she did different activities like dance and things like that she was like a little bit more structured in that but not much more she still did the same stuff for hanging out with friends 'til all hours of the day and night. It seems like even the most probably like eight thirty at night. Not like ten or eleven but doing all those things and hanging out in the neighborhood and you know having fun that way where all the neighborhood kids would hang out during the day and even in the early evening different it was before video games and vcr's and dvd babysitters get into. I didn't really even get into video games until i was like in high school. The basic ones were still around and we were. We had the atari and in television but they were never something that they could never really pull you in one hundred percent in the games got more advanced pretty quickly in the early nineties and right and they just kept going you know now look at the game feels like i'm like controlling a real person on a football field of the right right right. Well they they. Games got so much more amazing i remember having like a coleco head to head football and things like that those those little like single purpose electronic games that were kind of like pong. I'll just little led lights. You know that you move around and it's green good times so okay so you grow up and you're kind of a quiet shy kit right for the most part. Okay so then. Who did you hang out when you got the high school where you still like a quiet shy guy or did you come out of your shell a little bit. Yeah you know. It's funny. Is i look back on it as i was a quiet shy guy and then i i was. I was friends with everybody. You know. I was friends with everybody but it was never really like into hanging out with everybody. And it's interesting when my high school experience which i liked i wasn't like i hated high school. I was goes miserable keeping like my friends. Pretty close. And i never like get involved in any drama. You know. okay. Yeah i get you. I learned i was i wouldn't say it was. You know super mature for my age but a little bit more And not knocking anybody who went to high school with who might be listening to this But i always felt like. I would rather read a book or hang out quietly on a friday night. I still did a lot of the other stuff. It wasn't like i was a hermit. And but i started to grow out of that when i got in the senior in high school and getting out into a quote unquote real world. I had jobs through high school on. Begins i I enjoyed like quiet time. i still do. I still like to be alone with my own thoughts. And i don't know whether it's a sign of maturity craziness or you like yourself. But that's a combination thereof. I liked to be You need to injury. But i do. I knew i need quite often. Gotcha so that was kind of like high school. I was a little bit like that. I i know what you're talking about with With the drama thing. I remember when i was in high school I had one girlfriend in in the four years of high school that was from my own school and it was such a pain in the butt Because there was like now all of a sudden. I had this job called the girlfriend that i had to see in between i had to meet her. Like you know every every break in between class we had to meet you know and catch up and i was like oh sucks to learn. That wasn't too upset when that didn't that didn't last forever. I was like hugh. And then i made a rule never date women from your own high school so there were like two other schools. You know then. I only had the after school commitment right and this is before cell phones so young and i was a bit of an ambassador to so i had like my core group of nerd friends and then and then but we would hang out in different groups. Yeah and that. I went to a smaller private high school. So there's only like a hundred and fifty of us. I think it was the number a little tiny bit than it's pretty small. Yeah yeah In a big area too. You know like it's not like i lived in the middle of nowhere lived just outside of a major city in the united states. And right right I think it. When i did interact with people. I never really saw lake Will joe plays football or you know. Chris plays hockey. And or you know somebody was doing this as always friendly with everybody I didn't necessarily want to be involved with any of the bs drama. Like we just talked about. And i avoided it. And i think when i look back on it sometimes. I'm like ask probably a little weird at times but everybody is. You know you're growing up you know you're not mature you're learning things and do i wish maybe i was a little bit more. Social time saw a tiny bit. But i don't regret it because it made me who i was today. Sure no you know. There's always a cost right to anything you you get involved in you know So i always like whenever. I got involved in anything. I was always like this is cool. I like the. I'm hanging out with people because i'm gregarious and social but then i was. I had to go to stupid meeting. Always like there was a pro con thing right so i can definitely sympathize with your I don't want to you know. Get into that. Because i know die persons a drama queen. This guy's just you know. I get it. Yeah and then to the loud part Like i said has allowed interesting when i was. You know it out and about or involved with other people wasn't like i was shy like i might have come off that to a stranger but with my friends and other people that i would let in it was totally opposite but i just didn't want to be like out and about with like all that other stuff like it just seemed trite to me a little bit and then Kind of like what you said you like got a job with this. I don't really want that right now. He's booker watch a movie or go. Listen to music in and figure those things out so Yeah i think we're we're on the same page it was like we're always sort of like Outside the core group of friends we were like to win. Do we like this right right. Yes i'm with you okay. So i'm assuming there was a college experience somewhere. After high school. it was yes. There was a college experience. that's for sure. Let's talk about us so My entire family had gone to penn state. Okay now. I did very well as a high school. Student think is because the school i went to a very good high and had a lot of structure from a standpoint of getting ready for college right But i hated being in a classroom. Like i just i was just like You know like it was a chore like for me to sit there and there are certain classes. I love certain classes. I hate this like everybody else. But i like. The structure was so stifling. Sometimes that was just like You know. I don't know what i'm gonna do with college thing. My parents especially my mother never thought that i would get make it past one year school room. Wow i did not. I was not really good. I don't like people telling me what to do. Hence owning my own business ever yes. It is never really big on anybody telling me what to do. Not that i was not at all. I mean there's certain things when you're growing up that you feel like you know it. All right quickly earned those things not that. I wasn't open but she was like man in. She said like after my first year college. And i was definitely going back for year two. I remember we out to lunch and she was just like i'm really shocked. I was like oh why she's like. I'm just shocked that you're still you're still going to school. She's like. I thought that after your first year you were gonna come. Tell me that you wanted to work for your uncle and landscape in to sleep school behind and i was sitting there thinking. Well i was up a really good time at college because okay. I my college experience. I went back to speak to the business club. After i graduated years after i graduated and i just remembered it after everybody laughed like professors and everything. And they just like okay. You know here. We go the introduction and it was the students that was like you guys wanted to hear like how i got out of this place. Do you wanna hear like what. I figured out what i'd figured out was i had one professor Early on dr verney. And he had said you know he'd scindia's for diploma and he said tongue in cheek. Okay i remember. There were discussed already. I know i know. Afterwards i went and i just kind of santo like this is pretty interesting. Why are you say that all the time. And he's like well he's like you know he's like you think about grades and you think about that and he's like you want to think about your experience but you also want to learn what you want to do so i started looking at it from a standpoint of like how do i get out of college but then how do i just you know graduate because all your electives like biology and chemistry and all these other things part of it was. I learned a lot of in high school because it was pretty advanced in my high school. When i got to college. I went to shippensburg. And i'm not knocking ship. But the state school from a university level wasn't advanced as high school. Right right right. I was frustrated because a lot of those kids are in catch up mode basically. Yeah i had the same experience. Yes yeah. I was kind of like this. You know like you can say the arm if you want okay. Good was this. Because why am i going to do this and i. He'd said he's like you know just to really well and what you wanna do and then figure out the math and graduate and that's basically hacked college. I act eleven. I if you look at my you can look at my transcripts. It's kind of funny. You'll see as bs and a sprinkling season my business courses for the most graduated with like a three something so like a b. plus average right. And then if you look at the other stuff that i did. It's like wow like. Is this guy even functioning as a human. I figure out. Like i need like fifty two on this exam. Like how do i get the fifty two and just to keep the average get like a c. or even a d. and then it was like for diploma and it worked out and it worked out in worked out to be. I like all that side. That's kind of a hack and joking right was i was very social in college I hung out with a ton of different people of all different backgrounds. I met so many different people. But i went into my adviser and i said look. I'm like my grades are what they are. How do i make sure. I get a job. And he was like well. He's like what do you like. Do i like to work. You know like i'm landscaping. I'm not shy of hard work. And he had said okay well ply for these internships and i was one of the few people that are applying that had like real work experience. I locked the only way i can think of is. I looked in. I did really well in the interview. They just like me. Because i was talking about real stuff about showing up to work rather than what experience or you're going to give me and i got internship. Turn into the second internship that turned into third the fourth and the fifth. Okay without the internships. I would have probably had a tough time getting a job even in a hot job market in the late nineties because my grades were lousy and i just like appeared as like a lousy student. If someone looked at my transcripts internships doing doing really well. I like once. I figured out how i was going to graduate. I actually extended one of the internship. So i could work closer to thirty hours a week and took two classes and just strung out my senior year to a full year rather than a half year. Okay and went to five full years but completed all these internships so when i started sending my resume out i was like you had tons of spam. Yeah that's how. I college and outside of that. You know just to close the loop when i went back and i spoke to the students and it was so funny i was laughing for the first three or four minutes. And they're like well. Why are you laughing. And i'm like. I can't believe they asked me to come back here to speak and There's two buildings. I spent most of my time in in neither of our on campus. And they're like oh where were they. Anime one was or keys in the other. One was maxi's near the two bars. And i'm a shot pool and talk to people and hung out and yeah. Have you been a like a blast. They were laughing about it. And i said well the reality was you know and they say this but i figured out how to graduate but i also worked my ass off to get the internships and i worked a ton during those internships to get the right experience. Then when i was interviewing people and at the time i was a head hunter and head of talent acquisition was speaking back to the students mike. That's what we look for and we don't really care what your favorite class was. We're going to ask that question what we don't give a shit like loose warmer. Yeah in terms of putting this with You know with like your life experience to date model to leave. It means somebody that got a to just barely graduated and had like three or four internships versus somebody that was a student had no real experience leaning towards the student as a potential person right And that was i opening for them and they had a blast talking about it. And i i i sat there for about another hour. Almost an hour and a half afterwards asked answering questions and i was like this is pretty cool like resonated with them and it was just ruth right right. That's great though. I i can imagine all the college professors are cringing. Great shit you know what. That's where i will say. The college professors that did have in my management classes. Were not full of shit okay. Well that's good. They came from real world. I had to give credit there They came from real world jobs. They all had jobs for many many years before they were college. Professors and and that part really. It was cool because they taught from experience not from theory or book every other class. That was basically theory book. She's like my guide. You might as well just so quiet. The helmet you've been here this i don't need. I went to university of phoenix. And the and they're one of those the first on-line slash On a for profit schools so they take a lot of crap about being you know like a a diploma factory and you know they are a little i because they basically accept anybody that can pay but but but on the on the good side. I'll i'll say that they have a policy that says all the instructors must be working in the field idea. Remember that from their marketing. That is amazing. So i finished my a my bachelor's degree in psychology. After i retired from the air force. So i had you know way more than the first two years of college done already through to twenty years of messing around taking college classes here and there so they accepted all of those transfer credits so i basically in a year and a half finished the core of a psychology degree but all of those people had jobs in psychology. One way or the other so most of what we did in class was just pick their brain about their jobs which was great you know except for maybe the the stats class that was about. It is hard to full. Check your way through math right kind of basically just have to learn how to do but she was extra cool because she let me she let all of the class. I was only the one that take advantage of it. Use excel as long as as long as she could look at the formula. And you know that we had figured it out. That was cool right. And i was like one of the first ones going through because obviously similar age not too far off that we were allowed to do the same thing which i was like. We're going to study this stuff like in the future. Because you're just gonna have this available to understand no right exactly which you know. The thing is though. I think it's important because somebody will come up to you someday. If you're in that scenario and say hey who can set up stats in using excel. And now you've done it before you know. It's not brand new. You know you know. Yeah a good friend of mine. Old college roommate. Who's actually a professor now in dot. He worked in ton of different things he was explained to me Common core right right okay. I'm familiar okay. Like i'm watching some of this stuff online. I didn't get it when he explained it to me from the theory behind it which i can't explain norm. I going to do on this podcast right. But when he explained theory i was like. Oh that's not much different than when we were taught to do this. This and this he goes exactly. He's like where it it gets out of shape is people's people aren't looking at it. It's another way to explain the theory of twelve marbles. If you take away three you have nine. But what if i take away six and add five you know like and start to get more complex but you have to understand the theory behind it. And he's like certain people resonate with certain people won't but when he explained the teaching theory behind it so that you would know in the future. I was like oh so people are just explaining this wrong. And he goes. That's the issue. And i'm like So your point. Like i'm sitting here like hey m pro this or pro that. I'm just when when you start to dive into that theory. And not just relying people on utilizing their computers or their phones have to reach people in different ways and this might be part of the evolution night. I'm by no means an expert but to your point about explaining on the excel and all that leads to theory needed to understand that you need to really work through that so always interesting when you hear about people's different experience in education and where leads them. Oh yeah you know. I lucked out I took i up in michigan. And i think my senior year i had a class that was called business. Cluster and the my major prod project for the year and my senior year was the the instructor that was in charge of the computer people. He just had a bunch of books. You know those big ass computer books that you get in bookstores and they're all about one thing and it's like you know he was like so we. Each all of our computers computer geeks had to grab a book and then use the book to teach sell that thing and then and then make something cool. That was that was our big project so mine was lotus one two three on your profitably. Although which is learn that's why i learned all spreadsheets and all that stuff on there were like whoa. I forget why we were using lotus because it was the thing where is it was. It was the first spreadsheet Right ain't that that really got major adoption. I think. And i think it's the one that had the most Function built in and all that for complex business stuff right right it just turned accounting and all that complicated math crap on the ted. It was awesome. So yeah so that i mean to this day in every job i ever get that is still beneficial and mostly because there was no structure outside of that book you know just like read the thing do a thing to do to think back when you learn software from hook right right. It was fun. I remember that it was fine. Actually if you were interested in becoming really really good with that Any you would be able to take in read the book and then start implementing piece by piece. There's part of me as much as i love. My iphone intuitive and get into it. There's part of me that does miss that in the fact that right. You don't have the foundation. And i find that in in working with small businesses Sometimes where i'm like okay. It's not just as simple as logging onto facebook and twitter and instagram. And then just starting this like you need some of these basic principles to get started. It would essentially be going into lotus one. Two three and being like okay. I'm just gonna dump all of my business data in here and not know a damn thing about any of the functions or what. It's supposed to just be like okay. Here's all the data just threw it all up in here now. What and expecting it to work and it's fascinating because right go back and think about it and nowadays you don't even get any booker instructions with anything right Riley's like jewish where you started taking outright in. There's something to be said about technology there but at the same time It's pretty fascinating to me that when you go back and you think about like i remember those books and they were thick and they weren't even dummies books. They were gino. Worrying boring. ya every little every little thing you could do. And in a in a spreadsheet there was like an exercise you know step by step all you have to do is read it and then you had a functional spreadsheet with you know and you kind of learn the concepts as you were doing it you know it. It was fun it was you know. Learn by doing basically absolutely yeah okay. So what was your. What was your first job if you had one after college is probably came from one of those internships. Bet it kinda did so. I graduated in eighty degree in business administration with a concentration in Basic management and human resource management which was relatively new in the nineties. I'm coming out of personal but personnel. Or whatever you wanna call it But i liked it because of The the the people aspect of it not from dealing with people but from the psychology piece and i gravitated towards that and they took. I wanted to find a job my first job. I was a little bit picky about. I just wanna take a sales job or didn't want do Something that was just like your quote unquote will pretend. The management trainee program and i went to franklin mint federal credit union and there was a small credit union. But i got to do so many things for a young professional. I got to do payroll and learn about benefits and interview people and hire people and workers comp and get to do all these neat little things. I was great about it. In the reason i wanted. That type of job is. I wanted to learn what i liked in that profession and what a hated in that profession took about six months to figure out what i liked. What eight right right and that was like. But that was the purpose of the job. I turned down some some pretty cool jobs. It's pretty neat. Little potential companies In the late nineties. And i just looked for this little thing and i look back on that Because i left there to pursue more recruiting. Which is what. I gravitate towards okay but i had a lot of great managers and people that were looking out for me. Not just as a Professional but a person in it was a nice first job. didn't pay much But that's like everybody's first job right right gave like mini foundation to at least a start off my career for sure what you learned what you wanted to not be good at right was payroll this in the thing. Is everybody's so sensitive about Payroll stuff and then when you're in it you know it's just like any mistake is just like you know you could get everything right for years and years and years and years and years and you make one stake. It's like it right then they never tell me. Never say thank you for keeping the network three hundred and sixty four days but on that on the three hundred sixty fifth day. When there's a hiccup you're an asshole. I made after doing so i did payroll on my own. So twenty nine times So year in a few urine. Six weeks Every other week and I remember i made one mistake. Big mistake jared. I miss some minor ones which are easily rectified. Like hey missed the one over time. Our by you know by one hour. It's okay. Do you mind if i just throw the extra hour on next week. And then i'll just write it and let your manager know and oh yeah that's no problem. One day screwed up was with one of the executives and it was with the bonus and then 401k where it was going and this is a big tax ramifications when when max out your 401k and all this other stuff and i'll never forget like that was like the last straw for me. I just like i did this for so many weeks. Like perfectly minus these little teeny tiny mistakes that were easily rectify that anybody would s right and i just remember him like being unhappy rightfully so like it's a big deal and it was one of his first one's coming up in within the company but just remember walking out of that meeting. I'm like you know like like bent. Like i was getting i love it. It's like one one one little thing. But then i went back and i was thinking but you told me you wanted it the other way and then make which one is it you know and they went back and i was thinking and then i look at my notes which i keep a notebook with me all the time so when somebody says something i take a lot of notes and i went back and looked and i'm like no he wanted it this way and then told me i did it wrong and it was like. I'm okay if you need it fixed. But then like my manager. Was there like the president of the company. Was there like all these your. It's all my fault. They're going to throw me under the bus. best way. Possible to make sure this smoothed out. And i was like you know what now and i was like. That's really figuring you got to focus on what you're good at. Because life's too short to worry about like mundane stuff like this where you know. You're gonna make mistakes and anything you do. Nobody's perfect but right. Let's start thinking about things on a broader perspective and it was that moment where i was like all right. It's time to to change gears here. Yeah no sure. There's definitely jobs out there. That are typically like i said you know like every day you never get credit for doing it perfectly right and then you're a war criminal with the right mistake. Yeah i know. It's not the happened to my wife just recently. So and they actually got so upset at her that And it was just you know just like a minor thing. It was her fault. I mean really. But i mean she's been working in like thirteen years doing payroll and this is like the first major mistake and of course again. No thank you. So yeah i get it. Yeah and you know. Not that i look for a pat on the back on everything that you do. I don't or do i want that. But they're nice. Yeah but it's like the basic stuff. It actually applies to more and more. I see it in business and in stuff that we do is people when things are perfect. He'll say peop- right and things are rolling like ask is great At the end this is cool. And then you start doing something good or even better on top and then it's like. Hey this is like a one time thing that we're going to do Are you okay with it. Sure you know. And we like look. There could be some different types of responses. There could be some things but we think it'll really work out out now. That sounds great. Okay awesome then. It works out great. Let's say and then they're like well. Why can't we replicate this each month. And then you're like well we just went above and beyond to do it as a test like we'd like to do that but you know it's gonna cost you x. If we continue to do that and we kind of told you that before we wanted to do it. And we'll see what happens all the and then it's like it turns into this whole thing like you upset and easy and it's the same analogy. It's just always interesting to hear right. Yeah no right you get you get a whole different dynamic win client Client out whatever you know service provider client relationship. Yeah you get you get like so many different things on both sides it's it doesn't necessarily matter whether it's a client relationship or an employee employer relationship because at the same time. There's a lot of things that go in there like everybody. Everybody carries their own baggage. Good better indifferent into it right and then they have different expectations even after you get off the phone with them. Even if it's illustrated powerpoint presentation dog and pony power. You know youtube videos right right. They leap that and they say is going to be awesome their own page in. It's never the same we leave. Because we're like this is going to be awesome. Because of this right and they come back in their expectation is totally different based on what we thought it would be. But we're on the same page and is this like wait. What were you expecting versus what we did man. A lot of times it just relates back to the payroll thing going. Well here in my notes you said that you wanted forty five percent dumped into the 401k. And then the other fifty five percent you wanted to be paid out in two pieces but now you're telling me you want it all to go in the 401k to mac like and then you're like okay well where we miss on the same page here because you told me this versus this and it's like oh you wanted fifty five percent versus forty four. I'm sorry that's just a misunderstanding. But the expectation is that you would figure that out for them. i'm not. I'm not a mind reader for your expectation so eight that clearly right right. It's just asking extra. Follow up questions and nothing's ever perfect button. You can develop that with any relationship and it just comes back to creating those communication lines for sure. So how many jobs did you work before you Ended up starting your business. So i started I left the credit union. I went to a engineering firm where it was kind of a quasi head of their college recruiting. Okay i did that for about eight months and Who's now a friend of mine. Tapped me on the shoulder Said hey we'll have a start up Staffing firm in information technology world and It just had been like cross pass. He went to shippensburg. Graduated about nine years before i did. And there's a couple of the common themes and we just hit it off one night talking over dinner is like a mini interview and then I started there and it was genuinely a startup and we went from zero to twelve million spent five years there. wow yeah it was a long lizard. Aiding right and it was exciting and fun and a lot of work. I learned a tiny. I talked to those guys regularly and It was fun but the end of five years was time for me to go for a variety reasons. I went into consulting for three years. And that was kind of like being my own boss and right in two thousand and two is where. I really started side. Businesses I had the side-hustle before it was called the side-hustle sure. Because i knew i didn't wanna work They want to work for somebody for my entire life. and when i was with In source which was the name of the company with a staffing company. When i was there it was nice to see like people. Were actually doing what i what i originally really wanted to do. And i just started doing marketing on the side. And when i went to doing consulting doing more marketing on the side then after my consulting engagements wrapped up in i was laid off i Did more marketing on the side ryan. I took one last gig At a company called click click. Click view when i joined them in the business intelligence off first base. I joined them right before they went public and was Again in talent acquisition role. And i traveled. The world saw a lot of different things and met a lot of different people. And right when i started their march of twenty ten. We started bad rhino in august. Twenty ten in me and my partner. worked so that he would do the bulk of the work in getting. It started but i would lend my expertise. He had a lot of expertise in certain other areas and i basically worked like mad For about a year. And a half. So that i could leave I didn't know when i was gonna leave. Unfortunately i had some personal issues come up where like forced my hand a little bit which is a good thing but it was like a little bit unexpected and then You know. I was off to the races with a bad rhino ever. Since so how did you. What's the story of coming up with. The name bad rhino. That's gonna be interesting. Isn't that we keep. It is because people ask that question right like one of the reasons i kept it in capita should say not just me Wait a minute. Now that that means there's two stories here because there must have been a time where you didn't want to keep it entirely true okay a face the whole i'll tell you the whole story and a lot more sense. Yeah so my Rich is my business partner is awesome. He and i had met each other in source. He was really young. You still in college. He just started graduate school when we hired him and he and i kept in touch after i graduated and he went and worked at Oracle and once he got laid off there because he was with another company at oracle acquired and then they laid everybody off. He started a blog and the blog was going. Well that's when we reconnected. Like around two thousand seven just talking about like what he was doing in high was like keeping everything rolling since he got laid off and then With the blog he did really well and got mentioned in wall street. Journal and courier journal was on readers in reader's digest on sirius. Xm started like one of the biggest twitter chats at the time. He did a lot of cool things. And i when i started at click. I needed somebody to help me out. Because there's a ton of work and i got approval to hire somebody so called rich. I said. hey. I know you're looking for part time work while you're trying to figure stuff out a. Why you come work for me and you know you know it'll be easier to work for me etc Because he know me and it just worked out so then we started talking. One day came in my office and this is where the name starts come in and he said hey i got this idea for a business and at the time i was like i saw my side thing by kind of put that on the shelf a little bit but i was like i was already thinking about what my next plan would be but i was also thinking more one. What rich has to say. Because i do respect him and i know he had a lot of things going on in terms of his blog and he said keep asking me how i developed and built this thing and build an audience and built A crazy big following on social media. And he's like to be honest with you. I know but i don't know and i said okay. What do you think he's like. Why keep having these people ask me. And i need to have a response. But i'm thinking about forming a company in. This would be my business. And i'm looking down at my desk and on desk is. How do you formulate a social media marketing plan for employment opportunities within click how to leverage social media. How to do all this. And he's talking and i'm looking at that on my desk and i'm like huh. This might be something and they said. Look ever luma amount of time. I'm traveling all over the place but if you come up with a cool name i'll help you get started at that point. I was like. I'll help him just like map. It out in his mind into all that who knows like so richest very thorough which makes him a great business partner for me. Because i'm not at times. I think another aspects of not right so he goes all right cool. He's like well. That sounds good. And i'm thinking he's gonna be in his theros. He is two weeks for him to just come up with the perfect set of names to really start talking about. He comes back and forty five minutes. He writes down twelve names on my whiteboard and to them. I can remember the other. I can't remember for the life of me. One was bad rhino and the other one was moose horn fat right now and we started from there. We started building everything we had our first client in november and then we start really putting some pieces excuse me pieces together shortly thereafter to build what has become today and about a year into it you know. I said the rich when we first started and kind of put the pieces together to be formal. I said i don't know if we're going to keep bad rhino to you. He's like. I don't know and fast forward. I was at a marketing conference with some old agency heads and some highfalutin people in the marketing agency world and this guy pulls me aside and he's like i just wanna say like all the stuff that you did to really come up with your name your color scheme your logo all this stuff. He's like it's just phenomenal. How did you do that. You must have spent so much time. You have a a rhino. It's hard charging you put a bad in front of it. You logo reflects that that color scheme works that you must spend hours of market research and all that in america my mind. I was like if this guy is telling me this. And here's what we did. Is we sat in office. We came up with the name and forty five minutes. We said okay. Black and red. It looks kinda cool. We've favored our logo. Which we still have we keep up with a handful of cool things to wrap around the some of the story and some of the rhino pieces. I was like That's pretty good. You know like we're on something in terms of what we're doing right and we've rolled with that ever since so that's the whole story a it's some people like you need to come up with something. That's really cool like you're on safari and make up a story. I liked that story more. Because it's real into the truth there for sure. I heard the story of Of mail chimp right It's not as good as yours to tell you the truth. But i when when they when they came up with the mail chimp idea the chimpanzees were on tv a lot so the chimps were just really popular right and they wanted mail in there so they just said male chimp right and then fast forward they kinda like thought it was silly you know and kind of not very grown up but they were kind of stuck with it and then you know of course. Now they're happy with it because they're used to it but there was a time where they just hated it a little bit. You didn't get there right. You were you. Were just like me right. Maybe we'll change it. Maybe we'll keep it until you got feedback and people actually really dug it. I really like it. I have a buddy another guy that was on the show He is nuclear chowder. Marketing right and it's nonsensical but it makes a really big image right right. Yeah no hey. I love it good story. So thanks before we wrap. Let's talk a little bit you and how you got into craft beer. Because that's just. I did too but everybody's got a different story so did. Did you like bad beer for awhile. I'm a drunk. No good for you. Yeah drinking right now. How in the craft beer is a great great little thing so it was it was i was always the guy that would Try new beers all the time. Where i was like some are good summer bad always. I just I would always try a different things. Like i never wanted. Just have like. Oh everybody's having a miller laid off norway. Oh what's this beer and they're like. Oh that's like our local brewery. That was you know not really the best beer but hey they make this lagers. Pretty good right and then In the nineties member that first boom of craft beer Came through that first. Wave where you had all these little brew houses popped up which they were good but they were. They were just kind of capitalizing more on a theme for a restaurant. But i remember coming out of that like Having a handful beers that had been around since the late seventies which were like true craft beers like sierra nevada spin around and So around the two thousand seven ish. A friend of mine Brought over case anchor steam interesting. It's you know it's like it's i wouldn't call. It's you know smaller brewery. I don't know like be craft per se at the time like because there was always craft brewers around but it wasn't like this phenomenon that you see now right right and with victory brewing which is local to me and a couple of others that were floating around like yards and philadelphia and dogfish down in delaware. They've all been around for a long time but there was like any mass appeal. Like i would show up at a restaurant big. Oh my god they have. They have victory on tap. I'm getting one you know right okay. It was more like that. You know and i just started drinking these things and i just try and different things and i really like just trying beer like much like you do wine you know and right okay i was. I just wanted to taste. And then they did like food pairings and it just got into it and it was a passion to try new beers. You know wasn't like hey. I wanna go drink. Twenty of them right right. Just wanted to try them all like in. Have the different things in in different tastes in after doing it now and you know trying all these different beers An all over the country. I've had a blast like just learning the stories by them in right like logging is if you've ever read the guy that started logging nita's i think his name is tony. I can't remember his last. Check it out grateful because you listen to on on audible and It's great because it's kinda like the guy. I don't know whether he read it or somebody else but it feels like it's coming right from him you know it's a blast lake. Listen to and was just like yeah. This is really cool in terms of you know how they came about and like how they're naming beers and the company culture and the good things bad things and the risk see took in All that you know you know fun like to listen to. What i find was small business. I'm a big my achilles heel in businesses. I love small business and then i wanna help too much right and they may not be set up in a lot of the time that i look at craft. Brewing is like ban. If you guys just had like this little bit of direction here this could take off. And that's where like the. I wanted the research more beers. Not only drink them learn where their story came from. I never really thought about from a business aspect. And i was speaking at an event for pennsylvania restaurant and lodging association and i started talking about social media and how it can help your restaurant in the crowd was a bill kovalevsky in some other people from victory bills founder of it. Wow in a week and a half later. I got a call from their marketing team in about another week and a half later from that. They're hiring us as a consultant. And that's i the business part together to a passion of mine. And i have the book. That's out great. Beer is not enough and been working slowly working with some other small breweries and we're going to launch a little league campaign. We don't wanna work with hundreds of them. We wanna work with a handful and help them get started and really interact with their community appropriately. But also you know be profitable. No nobody likes to see a business coming. Go now for sure. Wow so so. What's your favorite style of beard. You have a favorite style or do you like to just mix it up a lot. Yeah i mean. I do mix it up a lot i do. It sounds crazy. 'cause this is just like when you read about everything i do like. Ipa's of course. And i've always have. Yeah but like the straight up like just pale ales now. I really like that have. They're just happy enough but they don't have all the heavy heavy hops scheme example like l. smith has a great ip a one of my favorites right kahlil. That's very very similar. But just a little bit lighter. Okay and it's just like and i've been really into pale ales a lot in drinking those because i enjoy all the taste with you. Know you don't feel like just eight ten sandwiches. Yeah you know. And i don't know you probably know this but So i kind of like have fallen in love with the west coast style out definitely. Ip right so there are east coast ipa's and the taste a lot different alive. I mean you know. They're the same style but you know. The the hops are the hop flavor in the hop aroma. On the on the west coast are like through the roof. Little crazy sometimes right and then also the The bitterness factor a little bit of really beefed up over here in the west coast. So i i tried some of the i know for sure. I had a couple of the The dogfish east coast. Ipa's and i like them but to me that is like it's almost like a different animal. It's so different. It's like oh yeah east coast west coast of which one year. It's like they're they're different. You know different I guess brothers or siblings in the same family right one hundred percent. And that's what i love about it that When you have different beers like that there's so many things that you can try and taste in. That's what is like am in a you for anybody out days when you're wondering like hey you wanna go out and get a buzz on. Go ahead try like session. I a as a little bit lighter in you. Don't think four percent alcohol and like a normal beer so to speak. And then you have like your other ones you know. It's a regular ip like eight percent. There's a huge difference drinking right to session ipa's as versus drinking like a a percent beer and You know it to me. Like i love the food pairing and some of the other stuff we can really taste it I did take a little break for a little while because my palate was like all over the map lake rows. Drinking something like. I don't know what this tastes like entering something else my dad. I don't know what this tastes like. Either and somebody told me that happens in wine and whiskey to you so you have to cleanse in between if you're if you actually want to taste it which is hard to do when you're when you're sitting in a brewery in sampling really dear. It's also hard to do. Now have a book out bing consulting with a couple of other breeze. And then you gotta try this and like this is what we're trying to convey and then you're like okay. I guess i got to try this. You know right right right. No i get it but that's how it all came about. That's amazing so yeah we go a thing. We share craft beer love well. This has been a blast. So let's talk a little bit more about what you've got going on. So your website is bad rano inc dot com and And you're helping small businesses mostly with social but it's a full service marketing operation. That's correct and then say we specialize small business but we also have quite a few mid size and even in the fortune five hundred we'd been involved with an consulting area so we've had a wide variety of people ask why we have a wide variety and simple answers we haven't really marketed our services that much We're actually just skating into it. You're seven you know doing things like podcasts and doing some other things because we based on referral and we've been able to work with a variety companies and it's really hard when somebody says. Hey there you know hairdresser and they turned to a local restaurant. Say hey these guys really killed it for us in a good way you should use them. And next year you're doing social for russia and then they turned somebody else in referral to refer all so it's a testament of the work that we've done but also makes it difficult to define niche. Sometimes that's okay. you know. i'm not a fan of niching so you know it's okay as a whole other podcast. We talk about good and bad. I know it works. it's just boring. You can't argue the effectiveness of a niche. But i would just it would just drive me crazy if i mitch. So i are brother. This has been a blast and thank you so much for being on the show. You have a good one youtube gray. Hit a blast doing it as well as great format in a fun time. That went by fast. Yeah it was pretty quick our thank you thanks for taking the time to ride along with us on another episode of bruise revered for podcast info and show notes. Be sure to head over to vv. Veer dot com. That's triple double e. r. dot com. Man that's fun to say and we'll catch up with you next time here on rooms.