GMs Making Die Rolls for Players
Eighty seven being recorded March thirtieth twenty twenty welcome to gaming. Nbs A tabletop RPG. Pasha podcast. I'M SEAN. I'm Brett's doing folks glad to everybody here before we get into Announcements I think. Well we played a couple of games slash weekend here the virtual Gary Khan stuff and then we had a chance to play. Astonishing swordsman and sources of hyper. Bore you with the one the only Tim Chin and I gotta say I gotTa say that Astonishing surgeons game was pretty fucking awesome at a good time with that lot of fun. The folks renown you know weighing Curtis Jeff and Let's see that Hobbes guy you me. It was fun. Damn fine time and I I said this on my twitter posts and social media spaces but I think. Tim Did a great job. I've read enough of the setting as I said we had him on the show. I know enough about it and I was ready ready for the environment. And you kind of how it wanted it to feel and I thought Tim bang-up job. So thank you sir very very well done Sean. What after we talked about it in as the first time. You've played it as well did you Did it your expectations or were you like That's that's about or something in between maybe I did feel as though it met expectations image. When I say feel right is like it felt like Tim inbred. We're talking about last time and didn't have those just another forgotten realms setting depth thing correct yes. I would agree with that for sure good. Good Yeah I think Tim did an excellent job with capturing the overall your what sounded machine sources sources have such hyper aurea about. I mean little call to Action Evil Gods I was die but when saint instead it was good. Yeah it was pretty cool. That's true that's right. Wayne did die I I. He's the only one who did die in a year. He'd he'd I big time you got cut in half. I did like Shawn's I'm a cleric quote unquote. Now he's a fucking bar and he's got to be a bar he's gotta be Goddamn barred. S turns out. Son of a bitch was a barn. The Bardi Clerics Investments All right so I did not have any other gaming Besides getting prepped. I've got two games this week with my home group. I'm running my avalon game one. I'd ribbon story the title of that one tomorrow. Kicking off with my boys and then Dungeon Madman's on Thursday. But you you Mr. Sean had some other Games. I'm interested in hearing about you. Play Low Fantasy. I believe in you also play Labyrinth Lord. It all started on Thursday when I Thursday. Who KNOWS THE BLUR? What a Play Delta Green. Yeah that's right. Yeah I like it. I liked it. It was it was good forest tied it into actual the end of the mission turned it into or tied it to an actual event that occurred nice and then of course we got to narrate the end of of our kind of arc like what what are characters went on to do. Oh cool is the survivors. And so because we blew up a large portion of Central America. Creating Earthquake Of course somewhere guilt ridden and found themselves feeling guilty and then subsequently going down maybe not such a good path where my character he went on to continue service in the military eventually Become a poster child for the Republican Party and that an actual candidate for Senate. Oh interesting. Us Senate Any you know through some of the wheelings Indian kept in touch with some of those old guys from that mission. They were part of a they. Were like donating money to causes. And so I would help do that. Okay on the sly but Yeah so let me ask you this. Not You played it. I had a feeling that after you've played this you might say oh I should have been running Delta Green with document guys the reason I say that is because those guys like shadow run and this has a more shadow run type. Feel on my where you've got a a mission thing to do black ops type of deal Lisa can so. Do you think that would go over? Better than masks with that group Yeah I could see maybe go over is relative but I think that action man. Yeah there is more action because you look you snoopy poke around data and then fuck you shoot people. British shot at things blow up right which is normal year regular food game at least not as often. No that's true so I but yeah it was fun. It was great. I had a really good time. It was a three hour short adventure mission. I definitely could see where I would given. My background turned that sucker up to about eleven not that. That's not a knock on forced to gary by any means but in style thing. Well Yeah I mean. They were like he gave Prejean. I didn't really look at the Prejean as far as like What weapons I was assigned like shotgun breach. Your Guy Right say I went through. I went through a full load out like Ferris forces like well. If there's anything special that you want let me know and I just went through an equipped to my guy as if I was that guy like all right. I need an M16 eight this things. I need to canteens. You know well to first aid. Pouch is nice backpack prick seventy-seven stuff. So cool man was fun. Where did you would you? Oh sorry go now. It's going to say that but going into what you're getting at then Saturday morning eight. Am played. In Jason Hobbes's game. Whitestone Tower was at the little fancy Hold on a second. I got an echo coming shoot. It is okay so we talked a little bit about low fantasy as pre-game bullshit ARY for The stashing sources game a Tim Wren in I remember hearing about it before going That's interesting seems like it might be a Brett Jam and I never got into it so I think Wayne Hopefully Mr Lumber owners can hook me up with a CA- his copy of the rules that can Off Him and read. So that's kind of a very nice of him to kind of Israeli nice of him however Hobbes said on the show and then afterwards he's like man. I love that game. I said okay cool but I want to know what you thought about it and because when I hear about it and I read it Worried about it. That's kind of like I said with a stylish swordsman like oh I have a vision. My head you may not know all the mechanics and the rules or whatnot behind low fantasy. But what was your impression? Did it feel as advertised right like the outset attendances low magic gritty realism stepping in? The you look inside and I am looking that doesn't have many marshalls at all. Or how would you think for HOBBES's game? It was good. What about sorry about how good the game was? Just how do you a gay? I'm talking about the game itself like did you like it? Did you have fun with the low? Fantasy said I did and the thing is with a game itself because it was enroll twenty in the player character sheets. Her really well done. There wasn't a ton of knowledge needed about the rules. Okay right so if you rolled for initiative you'd Click the initiative die roller and then hobbs would just explain 'cause in that game their success great success or failure and it's dependent upon your target creature Whether you need a success or a great success to go before it okay. So I didn't need to know what that meant. I didn't need. I would just click a button right. Where in the rules that would say. Well you have a target number this target numbers on your character she derived from this. And when you row it. Ed You go above it. It's a success if you go above it by this much it's a great success so literally would just be like it would tell me the numbers but I wouldn't even look at would just I would look at the end result Janet. Now Okay but did you like the The the mechanics overall. Who's far as fun? Felt did feel low fantasy. D- what did it feel like who's just D- with less rules are different rules? Would you think that way It because it had some skills still to it There was a little bit of an element to to that component That that did so it wasn't like okay. Here's basic and you don't have any skills and you're narrating everything so it wasn't the X. Odeon de de thing okay. All right that makes sense. Yeah it does make sense but yet found that you liked it did then. You played labyrinth. Lord as well correct. I did play labyrinth. Lord that was Paul Wolfe. Now okay. I've not played labyrinth. Lord however I have always heard really good things about it. Did it strike you as? Oh that's neat that's neat clone. Or Wow that's something I want on my shelf type thing or it's good I I I mean giving far too many one either all in or out all out options here but did you like it enough you. We can't play playing it again. Running it or so one of the things. I've had a personal appeal. If you will with some retro clones. Ism Lake House rules as far as the Atkins see right where they very much lake blah. But and I can't tell some of them apart in play feels. Sometimes some cases did was this. Because I've heard Lebanon's Lord. Oh it's like I've heard people tell me no it's like eighty no it's more like Blah Blah Blah. Whatever so what was your take off of it after you bleed I would say it's the way I have labyrinth. Lord and I have from the kickstarter and the the basic and it has basic and advanced versions in it and the advance versions unlocks certain classes. That weren't in the basic like I think assassin baby allusion Est. Look they raised says class or class plus race raises class. If I'm not mistaken I know people that are like Oh s. are just like probably if I have that wrong are just jumping through chaos right now but you know I. It's I couldn't get a hold of that in my head wrapped around by Self Brett because it's not like basic expert to be at least it didn't feel like it. I think the way Paul ran it. It did okay but when I was create my character on Mike. Oh okay. There's these things like there was a little bit more to it than just I'd have to look man. I'd have to reference so now that this is not a knock against game master player so if anybody takes this conversation as such I apologize. That's not my intent. I think it's interesting to me sometimes. Then I'll I'll run a game or plagued and sometimes like that was interesting but it doesn't really stick with me or I'll read a game system and sometimes I think when some of them don't stick with me like some of the ozark loans because I read through them go that's basically swords and wizardry accepted does initiative different. I'm making that up or it's a lot like You know I I dunno Oz Rick accept or whatever the case is it just needs to be different enough for me to want to grab onto it that it doesn't feel like a house rule off of decks or something. I don't know I guess it's got a really kind of grabbed me. And that's why a low fantasy seemed interesting enough to be because it reminds me a little bit for. I've been reading of kind of how DC SLAP ZERO S R chassis on a fairly newish game system mechanic was and Think low fantasy seems to somewhere piece. It's taking the feeling and whatnot but still putting that onto a newer game system chassis so anyway all right cool I'll have to fund me a copy labyrinth Lord read it and see what I think about if nothing else maybe pick up the PDF. 'cause antler relatively cheap and Scope one of those out. Okay Koo Koo Koo Koo. It was fun. We didn't do very well in the tournament but when he had to do. And you'll honestly I didn't know it was tournament till you just told me today. So sometimes tournament play to me at least in a brief experiences with tournament modules and such. There's not always the best way to find out feel like system because sometimes there's turn. Misconduct CONSTRAINTS ARE STRANGENESS. About it. That aren't quite the same as a regular game. You play with your friends so yeah interesting okay. Cool don't want to beat that one to death too long Is the the survey done jumper that the surveys dot as of the end of this recording? And so you and I will have to take a look at the results of that and see what we WANNA do on top of that. I may add that. I emailed my my masks group and because they were like. Hey Man we're playing Tuesday. Are we like what's going on? You Know Yemen updated us on what you WANNA do. Siamese them and said Hey I'm GONNA hang up the game for the type. Excuse me the time being because I've got too many balls up in the air for the most part so I was a disappointment Is What what say that again. We're the players disappointed like really like I literally emailed them this morning and said Hey I'm going to hang up the game for now. I'm willing to play every other Tuesday but does not run. I don't have the time to dedicate to it because I do. WanNa get Games off for Patriots. Nope I hear her patrons. I should say and what that looks like. And then what and everything else that I got going on which isn't a ton but do shit adds up but does does not take much well and it wouldn't take much just fire up zoom and go okay. We're GONNA play ready okay. And then just right. Last time we left off you're in New York City. You're dealing with this so yeah but also if you're on the game yourself right now what's the point of pushing it how it's coming but you sound like you were last time so little bit so having settled. I don't mean to analyze you there but having said that I think what's going to happen is we will come together. Figure out what we want to do and how we want to run games. We'll run online Obviously and then whether we're doing one shots media campaigns West marches style. Yeah lead time points of light. Type will see Gotcha. Okay cool man all right so surveys done. That's bullshit are- let's go onto random encounter raynham counter segment of the show where we had all emails voicemails comments from Social Media Sean you seem down. Maybe this'll pick you up all right. She moved bummed out. Miss saw comments referencing a few previous episodes. So he writes. So I live in San Jose. And I'm under a shelter in place order Woohoo more computer games than online. Rpg's but I'm a grocery clerk. So I get to go to work. First of all everybody out there be safe you included Saul absolutely man. And I'll tell you what that I hope I hope you portray well. I hear some horror stories about people treating folks in your line of work. Quite Shipley and May Pox land upon anyone. Who Does that to the? Yeah carry on. I've written to you guys in a while. So I have a few short comments on a few previous episodes books articles about our Beijing that I have that I have read I really only bought one and that was never unprepared. Which I thought was really good. It had some great ideas of cutting down near Pratt and focusing your time on what is really needed other than that. I come from the Brett side of jamming from the seat of my pants. I used to prep like crazy but now I just come up with cool problems and have the. Pc's figure out a solution that makes sense. How kick starters well? I don't think I do very many but my wife. Joelene always laments my kick starters. I like physical books I like. Rpg's that I find interesting like something that I don't already have in my in my according to my wife vast RPG collection I have kick started avalon by your Bud Brett sweet thanks man paddle palate in at quarter Aquar- cone in RPG. John Carter of Mars. I've been extremely luckily that I've gotten everything I pledged for. Pretty cool the practice episode. Who runs the practice episode Let's see says Well I probably have over ten thousand hours of RPG playing. But I have been playing since nineteen seventy eight and haven't really ever stopped and I don't think you need ten thousand hours to be a good RPG player or a gay master. What you need is to get rid of all the adult inhibitions You learn from In addition learn from your mistakes and play with various GM's and see if people have a fun time. See what and how the GM facilitates that fun that fun time audio so he goes audio episode. I've always wanted to do audio. But only every once in a while have I done something online but nothing more than background music. One of my friends ran a con game where he had a person. Just help with the audio a dedicated audio dude. It was amazing but most of us don't have that audio dude in your back pocket innovations in the RPG industry while this one blew my mind. Sean I think we gamers have not been all that imaginative in this area of gaming I'm happy just to get a pdf with a With bookmarks I think the best one I ever had was Nova practice but still get. Pdf's that don't even do simple bookmarks. I really like your ideas and somebody. Sadly not me should work on some of your ideas. I thought they were quite brilliant. Anyway being stay safe stay healthy and see you on the other side of the covy. Nineteen crisis saw. Thanks man appreciate you still listen and take the time right man. Awesome good input to Kqei. Let's see who yet next Bruce Comments on innovation and RPG delivery? This one is a really interesting subject now now develop any kind of only Layman's understanding of most tact but I can see all kinds of challenges only relatively small audience for a new potentially online poll. She format for a love to see it happen though. I just imagine you can get that perfect solution together. The last POLL TO COMBINE TAX IMAGES VIDEO. Hyperlink maps layered maps compatible. The ride with a wide range of virtual tabletop systems tokens for the same sound effects and music. How would you market it to keep? If you're an owner g product assuming you're publisher that'd be narrow minded likely more fragmented market space. We license it out to other publishers. For fee may be very mind that many apogee publishers are tiny. Do It yourself operations. We make it freely available notes of becoming the new format effectively replacing PDF or other e-books. Awesome then you have to swallow pretty hefty development cost to great idea but I suspect the cost developing the perfect solution may mean we're stuck with. Eds for a while yet. It's deadly purple sorceress. Dc modules are really great. Pdf most come with an appendix that contain stuff intended for printing paper. Minis maps often within without battlegrounds and handouts. Let's also relative easy to grab images and use them to make tokens and match online. Play Bruce what things that I'm noticing coming out of this and we set ourselves and Bruce saying it here just underscores at for me is the. Shit's expensive to make and get it in every time you hear the phrase the RPG industry. I chuckle because it's a hobby. It's a hobby industry. It's not an industry. Like manufacturing computers or an industry like you know making women's clothing or making furniture or or making electronic equipment or something. He's not car industry and so on. It's a very niche piece that I'm certain that other components of the publishing the book publishing so forth out there are probably passing our hobby. By but because it's a hobby industry and as you know as points out do yourself. Operations at is not easy to to to put those bills. Were put that time in his. It's part time thing that people do so I get that totally makes sense what you're saying so I'm buying we shall in there. Yeah good stuff to hear from Bruce from across the pond. He ran a ton of games past weekend. Oh my God did he ever yeah? Lot of virtual console going on for Bruce which is cool. Great stuff all right you ready. I'm ready. Let's get in the main topic showy. Yeah all right Sean. Real so Mr. Shane did this and it got me thinking when he was running. Astonishing swordsman sorcery pipe. Boy He did a lot of dice behind the screen. The Hey my character was a scout. Pick this scout only sneak. He said what's your I said. I got a six in twelve chance. I said you want me to roll. That he goes no I roll those cool and he had a number of those type of Listen checks and so on a he would roll for us and then give us the how what you got out of it and I forget. Loved it When I was picking locks who was you would know if you open the lock. That's on you. Okay Cool. I'll get to roll. Might pick locks thing so I was kind of neat born. He rolled when. I'm listening at the door. Would I hear you don't hear anything? Okay and there was a piece of timber old for Shit. Or Tim's fucking with me maybe budgeted at me. There's no they are. You know saw that wonder was in my head and I really liked it. So we're talking about those things where you know you ninjas movie silently mystery summarized trying to hear if there's any behind the door was trying to spot the hidden treasure in the library we're trying to smooth talk a guard or something so we've talked about this a little bit before and. Shawna mentioned doing it and quite frankly. Tim was one of the only game masters that I can remember in recent or distant past that have done it successfully to me and I I think put the time in to make sure that he had all the stuff written down but it really worked and implemented very well. I know some people hate it. Game Astros any dice for the players and vice versa. Games like Cypher System. Which basically all the dice raw player facing even Gumshoe from large part is very flerfu player facing. We've talked about that before too so shawn. Let's talk about this little bit. I want to bring back the should the game master be rolling checks for the players. Is it a it? Yes but it depends. Perspective is at a only in certain systems type of thing. So what do you think Sean when we did you like? Did you like having Tim do that? Or Yeah I think the way that he handled it was done really well in my opinion but I guess it adds to the game for you besides. Oh that's a kitschy thing that Tim does. Did it added to the game for Brett now? That doesn't mean it work for you right. I looked at it. Ooh mystery. I don't really know are gonNA have to go with this Intel. That game masters telling me this is Kinda cool. Did you have that same feeling like match just the thing? I did I didn't have a lot of those experiences like you did breath because I wasn't youtube busy. Track all your priest in the instances that Urugay master and you are determining who makes the roll the dice like Tim. Obviously I think many game masters or Dungeon Masters that have been doing a little little while have their own system of doing things so when they say if somebody's going to search it's always GonNa be me or it's always gonna be them depending or they're going to have conditions around or the criteria around how they make that decision on the fly. Okay so with Tim. He's probably got his nail down and he rolls that that way. I didn't have anything where if I had to make a check. It would warrant me not knowing the result as a player character. So even look at okay then so you didn't have that exact experiences. I did because it was happening to my scout. Did you enjoy the fact that I wasn't like hey? The interaction and that Tim and I were having was cool to you did you think. Hey that's cool the breadth doesn't roll that die. Oh yeah I liked how it flowed for sure and I do like the fact that you know Brett as Brett would not know whether he succeeded or not and he could play accordingly. I guess so. Yeah Yeah I think to me. It's interesting because when you talk about on the one hand will say hey. This is cool because in this particular instance. I'm listening at the door right these. They are pressed ear to the door timber dice. Do I win do I not do I succeed? What do I hear he tells me? Here's noise royal. What type of noise? How and all I could stop in. Keeping that hidden encouraged me as a player to play differently. And actually for me. It helped me play. I think we better for breadth anyway. Is that at a harder? Time having to take knowledge Meta Knowledge in transferred into confidence and by that I mean if I would have failed our look roll it. Well fuck well. I guess there's nothing behind this door. Do you know that's that's kind of? That's kind of how I grew up in the gaming spheres. I if you roll to do a thing and you failed supposed to play like I don't know so we walk in with finger up my nose due to do all my gosh. Where'd you come from all never heard thing too much noise to hear anything? Ha Ha it took that kind of bad joke autumn my mind and I had to for me anyway really facilitated Brett as player being more in the in the moment as my character and trying to figure out what I'm GonNa do what what do I do if I hear nothing. Well I certainly in the guys fairly cautious. I'm like you know he's cautious. So he's not the kind that's GONNA kick the door regardless but open the door and go into the room. I didn't bother to warn the rest of the way in here. Anything but get ready just in case type of deal right so for me. It encouraged me to play different slash better than if I were roll. The dice fail the fucking thing. I would've I know me other made some stupid. Meta joke and then try to get back into character and pretend like I didn't know any better this way. It's it really didn't know any better. I liked that I thought that was a cool a cool piece but I do know with some of my So players I've had over the years he was someone guys in my group. Some depending on your days are bad. Sometimes you Kinda give up. Look whatever whatever I duNno. Don't hear anything of course I don't leave this day. Suck it suck. He'd be hit Downer again. It has this. Meta impact to the player. And how they're reacting enacting the follow him saying chunk. Yeah that makes sense. It does and and you know. There's a good point ops puts up that mentions like it works well with skill checks because it doesn't it it prevents multiple players from say. Oh I'll I'll try the same thing right because they don't know whether you've passed or failed so it does. There's no skill dog piling. Why are ten people can listen at this fucking door? The skill dog piling. Yeah that's hilarious. Van write that down skilled at Colville used it. And I've used it before I see so it's not just it's not just a breath of the people. I gotcha actually get it from. My group said at age at back. Stop fucking dog piling like Wet West. Wow that's what you mean. Okay but you know. That's a good point. Like I never even thought of it because I think by saying up role for it automatically trigger something in everybody's brain. Oh I try I try. I try okay. Yeah where Sir. Like a search check right. Yeah a rule of four fucking. I can try go search. I just want yeah. It's so weird that it's like conscious subconscious. That happens because when you when it occurred with you. I mean nobody. I don't know if everybody had the Quote unquote ability to do it or the skill to do it. But it didn't occur to anybody that nobody jumped out of their seat to go. Hey while I'll try because they don't you might have succeeded yet so we had. We have people searching rooms and poking around and trying different things and everybody got to try the thing and in the rest of us just assumed if the other person didn't anything there's nothing to be found we didn't go well. Curtis Israeli searched and step aside attack. Ashi I'm searching this room now. Now that you know and in Curtis in in the other part he's up front with me my robes. Doing the thing. He's follow me at the cautious with the with delight and I'm just playing telephone game back to him what I see. He took it for literal. Whatever I told him what he what I told them. It's like okay. Nothing nothing nothing. That's actually how my character scrolled away a sackful of coins because no one was looking at me when I took account that even you know that was that was it but anyway from my chicanery there it was. I liked it. It had to play better and I think that the skill dog probably thing. I didn't even notice until you mentioned it now. thanks observation. I think it's it didn't happen because we're all like well. He tried. Why would I just walk up and do it for them right? Yeah there's no. There's no urgent like you know. I'm not compelled to do it. You know the we were doing with that and I think this aided and Tim doing this aided in this I was doing all the scout things my niece was to go. Listen sneak and do. No one tried to do that with me or in place of me even if I failed because that was my job right. That's what I do. Well when we had identify some stuff will jobs neck. Romance her in in vain tried to get him to help us. She's the world's worst necker masters we found out whereas we're sourcing probably good nicorettes terrible anyway. Point is is when those things went to that character. No one else will I? Can I do instead of him? That never happened at all right. Any attempts any ideas thing that the people under do Who's Jeff was playing? Paladin by Buddy Jeff no safer. Yeah Yeah Yeah yes. So Jeff's a penalty goes well as a pallet. I think I would know Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah and. We went. Okay and you even though you're masquerading as a cleric no one else in the room. Oh my character would also no religious stuff to it. Looks like he fucked that up. Can I try it? L. In each protection kind of fell into place. I don't know if that was just because quite frankly was a really good group to play with. I'd love to play all those folks again. That was fun but I think I think that helps in a kind of a knock on the fact that really helped to do that now. I think I have talked to players and some of them in my own group that they don't like it because they believe that knowing the Daryl helps them role. Play the result. Better Meyer usual response to that is well. You can't do or say loss. Do Don't do it. It'd be under Sheikh Door. You know you can't do that But I have seen good players and when I said my son with my players aren't good but shit for that but has seen players like okay. They fail and they take that to To a roleplaying place and sometimes quite frankly Folder community where people like. Well must have your wax problems or I was listening to the wrong door or God. Damn you guys are just so fucking loud stupid fighter. You'll be clanking armor. I heard the goblins man this door. Next time sit fuck instill. It turned into an inter-party roleplaying moment. And the concept of having that Darryl in your hands your success your success your success or failure success when you combine the two trade Your succesor is in your hands right any dice that are going to impact your character's abilities knowledge go forward go back to whatever that is is your fault you know you don't see well a DM foots the dice with. He's lying about that some. And if you're rolling everything in the open the game astros all the dice in the open. I mean all the dice and the open you ruling. Everything in the open doesn't matter who rolls it at that point because if we were using using online die roller for that one but everything we did was old ice in the open. Timbering for us doesn't matter because there's nothing secret about it anymore. I mean yeah so. Have you heard those arguments for before? Sean like hey no. I want to do this because of those things I want. I feel like it's agency thing. I WANNA be a master of my own dice. Destiny helps me role play. I don't trust the DM in some cases. I don't I don't see too many people at Games at get hung up on a lot of that stuff really There's usually maybe one person but that one person is usually a pain in the ass. No matter whatever no matter their purpose at the table just to. Kinda screw with you throughout the day. I'm waiting for subs game to irk me that that makes me this evening and bring you that. I think that same person or that type of person may not do it with a table full of strangers. Like if so. I have a friend of mine today. I've known for a long time and I know that. What we're laying out here in your. Would you have a player that would get hung up on that stuff? He would and he wouldn't do it because well wait a minute. I think I should be rolling that not you. I think it might be part of that. And then there's also a part of well I'm just GonNa Kinda screw around at the table and push peoples buttons. Yeah there are people like that and so he does that. I think I think sometimes he believes he's being just wait a minute. I truly believe that's my role. I should be doing that role. Why are you doing that role? I should roll. Come on man. Yeah and then. It's like I find go ahead. I'M NOT GONNA sit here and argue about it for ten minutes. Let their fine. It's not worth it. I I'M NOT GONNA die on that Hill. Yeah that's that so I think I can say this flat right now is that there's some systems Doesn't make any sense if all the days of the players hands. Guess what right either. Gm attractions or something else. I mean now. There are some systems where this discussion doesn't make a fucking sense at all. No right and that's fine. I also think that there are some some settings where sometimes we don't always think about this because we tend to at least in my space. I tend to think about this as a d. that fantasy setting look and search like a thief checking for stuff trying to say beginning even in shadow run. You've street Sam is trying to figure something out trying to hear a noise down the alleyway death this is right for gay mistrals dice as thief trying to hear hear noise or you know you're trying to smooth talk the police officer as the same thing smooth-talking the city guard or the bartender. Whatever cases you know so I think this is not the setting. You think the system can stop you. I don't think the setting would necessarily stop you. It is It just the style. Play that if you're not used to tell you the thing that usually slows me down and this is where I didn't have a chance. I made myself a note at the end of the game on asked him what how do how he keeps up on. It is the bookkeeping piece of this where a lot of us has gained masters. I feel we start with great aspiration of I'M GONNA keep track of everybody's skill checks so I can roll certain skill checks for everybody and then about three levels in we'll fuck I haven't updated my chart. I forgot I've got update. My Chart. Sell 'em bitch okay. Goal now in these days of online character sheets and so forth. I like if I was rolling. Roll twenty I could see everybody's character sheet game master. Who's look it up myself like a roll the dice table or something privately for it really want to keep it secret Or You could ask characters to use like deums guild or or even update spreadsheet. There's lots of different things in the Google Doc. You could do to put the onus on people but there's that chance that risk that the data you have is outdated. I think when the ways to get around that is I. This game mastery. Build yourself some discipline to always do it. Or there's a partnership discipline here as I will ask you. I need you to give me because you're going to go away you're GonNa Update your character sheet at the start of every game. I'm GonNa ask you did any of your skills change if you say no. I will not update the sheet. If halfway through game he said Fuck. I forgot. The answer is no because asked the beginning. I'm not retrofitting it. Because three quarters in this game you just realized the forgot to tell. Bret you updated yourself skill to combat while I would have made last twenty stalls church. I just forgot to tell you you know the time when you asked me specifically to my face. Hey Sean did you update. Yeah I forgot to tell you so I thought it and by really did know yet. We kind of black and white about it but I think you can. You can kind of do a partnership owner on a but at the end of the day it's bookkeeping that somebody or somebody's have to make sure that they're keeping track of the grind but you don't do let them at that point adjust their skill and move forward in the same in the same set so then in that scenario lets me. I said Sean acid the anybody updates our skill sean. Note Blah Blah Blah Blah halfway through the game because I'll fuck actually did updated myself. Skill is not bad two hours ago. Dude no however Tan Marsh Man. I know I'm skilled and picture but you could say all right cool but I'm not going back. I think my I think I would take the harder. Line Sean. If somebody wanted to Bemoan the fact that they shouldn't have failed quote unquote all those other checks earlier that evening or that of the session. That's on you Jack Asks. You tell me But I could also see being lighter on it and saying okay cool. Let's update from this point forward. You have a plus five and not a plus for coal to Hey Hey who dummy. I forgot to tell your bread. Okay Bush on off ago type of thing. I think at the end of it comes down to it's bookkeeping and keeping track of notes and stuff is not always a game masters worte players Forte. We all been this and we all have a thousand different things we think. Oh you know this time. This time. They'll be online notes after every session and this time I will update this thing and it it falls but do I think happens there. Is You gotTA RECOGNIZE? It fell in the only way to make sure that it doesn't is update. It then goes to a lot of our rope practice stuff. I WANNA keep track. These private skills like enroll these dice myself for you. We all agree. We thought it'd be great. That Brett skinner do this Sean. Aline everybody's in on board with and I leaned forgets and or breadth forgets. Sean forgets whatever. I think what you do. Is You every time you forget you? Correct the situation and move on and eventually you will develop that muscle in that habit to always do. It will just be a thing you have because I'm willing to bet that did not just wake am GonNa do this. Really cool thing I'll have this mastered you mentioned at the beginning of this. He's been doing it for a while. Has a mechanism at work from Mr Tim so he can get that cooking right and what he's doing. I WANNA find out I'M GONNA. I'M GONNA ask him and Tim. If when you hear this if you reply to us to be great that we ought to both privately we share it I may look at what Tim does Worked for me however I'm going to try it and then modified as I go but if it's something you really want to get kind of talked about audio and other things you gotta try it it's GonNa fucking fail at some point. You're going to try this God. Damn I forgot to update ex PARTE. Let's just stop the fight and get everybody's stuff updated good. Okay sorry back to it off we go. Yeah Yeah we're not winning Oscars here. There's no emmy awards for anything and we're not losing money time. We're hanging out having fun anyway. So I think it starts to fall apart on you if nothing else the group is saying. I'm not having fun doing it this way. Can we please stop? That's a different situation verses. Oh crap I forgot again God damnit Brett you forget every game. I know memorial yes. You are a moron community down. Give me a Goddamn bonuses so I mean each piece. But Sean is this something. You think you'd WANNA use I mean there's lots of you have talked about all that'd be really cool to do and this one. I think I want to try next time. A campaign going now. Yeah I want I would try it and I don't think I would have a problem. Implementing it Mike. Should you? Brett would be 'cause you you play a group with a group that's used to you at us two things role in a particular way. So now you're going to change juniors now unless you're starting a new game right. Hey we're GONNA try low fantasy we're GONNA try a ssh an we haven't played that before and then from that point forward you decided like this is the way it's GonNa roll everybody. You know what I'm saying like if if you did it in a game you're currently running. Are Those guys going to say? Hey wait hold on a second like we did before this way now. Now you're changing it and it's the third session in this campaign. Yeah it's not. It should be a big deal shirt building. I like about what you're saying. Is that for me? It would be assange swordsman. I want run it so if I brought it to bear their brand new game brand new setting. We've not played in for. It could be a great opportunity to try. It is not the mechanics that different than I or secondary is not hard you played. It's easy enough but it'd be great opportunity for me to implement something different and then say hey. No that thing. We did with with astonishing swordsman. I WanNa do that when I run Catholic or I WanNa do that whenever pathfinder or when I run five people. Yeah sure what that was cool. Yeah let's do that. I think this might be a case of a really good thing to throw into the next new game or the game. You haven't run in a long time system wasn't talking game system here just because it's not for all I forgot. We're doing different now right now. It's new it's totally new. There's no we just played five eighty. Now we're we're done with that now are out of the abyss and you're telling me we're doing that different because why again it's weird to change gears in the middle of a game that you've been running for a month two months or three or four sessions. Oh Yeah I kind of liked this new thing. I don't want to do it the way we've been doing it. The last I don't know twenty hours a play so I hope as they're all good with that right like my buddy al. I tried to do that a couple of times in five as we're kind of kicking the tires on it. I want your dude last. I think the last thing you did. They said really how many more how many more hours of this we got. He said well. I think you almost done. Let's do this next. Time is a okay. Good point like dude. We just figured all the other crap you want to modify modify modify. I think we would have been dead five five six sessions ago if we implement all these rules at once the beginning but yeah not only in the middle of campaign but even in the middle of same system. Same System same says you know if you've been caulk Zulu in for a long time and then you jump back to D and everybody knows dean occur. We've all played it before. But Hey I wanNA do some different. I got a cool idea to try to make this d thing a little bit different. Let's try this Dean Heller of it and he jumped over to you. Know a decent disick star wars game or something else with school systems and even games that don't have skill systems taxes and such where a lot of things I was reading the Old Fred. Minster Boxes Books and it was talking about. Hey skill check you know in the one day in the three eighteen score range. If you have a sixteen roll a D twenty sixteen or less you succeed. Well that's a matter of keep track of stats. They game like that. Quite frankly has definitely changed much. Plus you get magical. I don't like gauntlet of overpower or something but I just think it says I think this is pretty cool idea when the other things that reminded me of is Back in the day way way. Back like grandpappy Greg. Nerdy days the roll. All the dice like for everything. I've Read Council where the game to roll up all your character for you gave him to you. Do you have hats craziness? Yeah you're you narrate what you want to do. I swing my sword at him you know. Try series of feints and thrust cut for the jugular okay. He the rose dyson explains to what happened. Okay but a lot of time. I mean that's how I know. Some people played I met some folks Alison or some other folks that when I mentioned to them I was gave me at that time. But we all roll their own days because it was. You know I'm like real your will joan dice. We'll say well. We all rolled only two sets of days. We had passed around the table but they not. Everybody had ice another. I gotTa get a twenty sided passes around. The table is ages needs back. We didn't have a plus for a poly he drills at our disposal. But it's it's interesting to see how it Kinda changes. And then he take a game like Cypher. System where or Gumshoe and other very player facing pieces where push all the dyson all that Dicey Agency the randomized agency if he will onto the players. It's a different way to go and this is where I can see some people saying. I don't want to take that random. Is Your Agency away from me? WanNa hang on to that. I don't want to give it to the game after. I think this is a piece when if you're not if you haven't tried it before this is a very simple not until you tried it. Maybe do like Broccoli. Give showed Crap and he don't want any don't want it but at least give it a go and if not if you have done it you've had a really bad experience with it. Miami vice would be almo- my experiences in the past personally had been somebody bookkeeping. We just said fuck it and moved on. It's you know if you had a bad experience before. How long ago was that the same people so playing? Do you really want to try it? You know give it another go Deal but do you think you'd ever do the Sean? Oh Yeah Yeah I think so. Do you have plans to do the show or you. Just you just saying that to make me feel better. No I mean I think with the next game or whatever it is that Iran that I would look at things a little more clearer and see if it makes sense when we're running game Patrick sort of some. We should count. We should talk about two. We go through lest this is like. Hey do I take a couple of ideas and implementing? This could be a fun one. So Coleman M as like I duNno. It takes something that we actually come up with or or discuss. I should say we didn't come up with this stuff but something we discuss an actually try it out. I don't know see what happens. Actually if this bullshit all he craft they actually did that thing. They said left to meet folks. If you've had this work or not work or better yet quite. Frankly if you've got a mechanism a tool set how're you doing it And if you're like hey it only works for me in this game system. That's fine not knocking that but if you've got a tool that says hey whenever burning deedee five always do this. To get the info from our players are how are you keeping track of it? What are you doing that would be great to hear so? We can share that stuff around the old gaming bs Campfire here so cool you. Good men do good man. Let's get Brett Daryl. I like it was fun. Oh my God. That's really loud. I'll write daryl segment of the show where we twenty four miscellaneous points a gay man. Geeky we WANNA bring you get four this week I one kind of champions may twenty third to the twenty fifth twenty twenty That's being put on by the folks over at tabletop events. So the proceeds goes stored. Keep a table top events alive and kicking during these times so Jt and the guys that do this. They announced that they're shutting down. May I o the fact? They announced that we had announced all going to shutdown. May I borrow? Community is loudly stated. Clearly that they do not want to shutdown though should run the crowd funding campaign to help. Keep them going during the pandemic. Sir. Here's the deal. They're making any money at all for that component of their business because tabletop events. Guess what there's no events happening gary uses them? I got hold of the team and I said Hey guys as your shift in leadership and doing things be aware if this offer is available to you this going to be a son of a bitch because tabletop events for me anyway. That is one of the things that helped my partners and I take every con from where it was to the next level. Gary Khan uses it these a modified version of it but melodic different gaming conventions used this system and it is a rock-solid system use it as as intended it just fucking works so it's It's really cool. I'd love to see these guys stay alive so I'm thinking of Team if I can just donate some money if I can't make virtual convention you know how to from Italian perspective if you'd like to throw some cash their way. This should be good time to help. Help a good group of people that person. Goddamn good product for the game community so anyway. That's much but yeah it's really really cool features so who had good robust so check that out. There's they also have a list of things that you know if you support them they they're not doing a kickstarter because a have the people they have the audience to blast this out too. Because it's everybody that's ever registered for a game through their platform And they just don't WanNa give kickstarter five percent for something that they don't need to so I think they're they've gotta list the stuff that you can actually think if you contribute so much cheap. I don't know yet date with Brad or something. I don't know what's Goofy Jason wants them. So let's see what else next one the halls of arden full. It's Mega Dungeon published by expeditious retreat. It's authored by Richard Barton Chris Schorr friend. This thing is no joke. Ladies and gentlemen you can find it on Drive Thru. Have a link to it. It is not cheap but it's also very large Twenty two thousand one hundred sixty to encounter descriptions fourteen. Npc FACTIONS TEN MASSIVE LEVELS. Fifteen extensive sub levels seven dangerous exterior locations. One hundred forty nine new monsters This thing is a beast. So wow yeah full. Mpc APPENDIX WITH TEN competing parties at three levels of power over one hundred forty original pieces of art including twenty eight full page illustrations. So definitely a lot of production behind it We'll have a link also to the maps on drive through which is pave What you want for those. And then there's also a link to a blog entry where somebody actually interviewed Richard about the product. So you can find out more about it so It looks pretty cool for sure right. Nice and big and then another one roll gate if you heard a roll gate before Brett. I have not what Israel gate month. It's an online in character out of character chat tool so I thought it's nothing crazy robust but you know if you haven't heard of it some folks in the forms we're talking about. I had never heard of it before figure thrown out there so I think it's like a play by post is what Hobbes puts out there which is yeah so another resource for everybody to take a look at and then the last one map keeper. Which is a map tool tim to Shane used for our SSH? Mind game this past Saturday which we'll have a video by YouTube Probably put a link to that. So you're wondering what I'm talking about. We used zoom Streamed TWITCH AND COMMUNICATE WITH EVERYBODY. But Tim had this cool too aware. It's literally you upload up as a picture and then you take your finger across your tablet and just it's Fargo war base complex the map out and then you just erase pieces. You WanNA show the party. It's awesome. Yeah it's Iowa's only my buddy I found well back shared with with Alpha and my game group. And that's what we use when we're in person gaming so it's it's pretty damn cool and the nice thing about his any map does scale blah blah blah any map any picture ending. You want slap it on there and scrub away the black and show everybody. What they want is a character sees pretty cool. Yeah it allows you to scroll around the map. So yeah and then. There's what announcing cyclops. Can I think? Oh that's right Goodman Games. We'll put that in there. Thanks OPS Goodman Games is announcing cyclops con. All that's right I saw that and That's GONNA be April seventeenth to the nineteenth and it's an entirely online con So everybody in the world can participate support All Goodman Games product lies DC C. DC. Sealink Bar Mcc which is mutant crawl classics Metamorphose metamorphosis Alpha Metamorphosis Alpha as well as five so We'll see about that cyclops con. Check that out as well. We'll have lincoln the show notes for that one takes hobbs but otherwise that's it bret cool man good talking about next week know. I'm not sure yet I was going to get my kids in Mike's Tonight but I had this talk about and then the kids have been super busy. Running around like little Munchkins that they are so I might grab Agen Lana and get along talk about gaming and kids stuff and what they like about it. I have to figure out how to do that. Yeah I mean I've got another Mike here like the one I've got the C. T. The you'd let me so have that so I can have them can lean and swap back and forth. But they won't ever give Mike disciplined some transferred out by just one at a time or or one of them with a year buds and throat. Mike out of no not necessarily the nicest way to go. We'll figure something will figure if we if I could pull it off if not we shall see. I've got a couple of different ideas. Bruin I will throw things at you Sean Sounds good thanks everybody? That's tune in via discord as well as twitch you can catch us at gaming it'd be S. dot com for slash twitch. If you WANNA see us we don't have like a steady. Hey we're doing Mondays at seven. Bright I kind of re roll free flowing at the moment until we put down and schedules start to kind of solidify. Yeah calm down a bit but otherwise I'm Sean I'm Brett good night. Good game this episode of Gaming. Bs brought to you with the help from the following. 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