181: Can I Be Friends With My Ex?
What is going on guys? Welcome to ID podcast. Thank you for joining us today. Thank you is this the first show two thousand nineteen now I was gonna say happy new year Xu said in the last one. Well, we took a week off thinks I around guys we had some travelling. So we had to take a little vacation off of work. Yeah, we're back. But we have some great shows lined up for you. And where we are actually recording a bunch this week. We like to if we can batch them, you know, so like record five in a day. Save them up information, still great and new in amazing for you. But when our little three year olds at school. We gotta get stuff done, and we actually wrapped up amazing interview with a return guest. John Kim he was back on episode one thirteen and if you haven't listened to that check it out and. Today's show in John is known as the angry therapist. And he has a unique story in that. He was getting certified to be a stairs. There's as he was going through a divorce. So yet a very unique perspective on these things. And he started writing and blogging about it throughout this process and have quite the following online in. He is the angry, therapists, but he doesn't sound too angry to me. Things just got that. The catch eaten the name in. We talk about a really interesting topic that a lot of you guys have requested in that is can we be friends with our exes or friends with the opposite sex and the short answer is. Yes, but I'm gonna give it all away. Listen there are times when the answer is. No, so leave that as a cliffhanger. You gotta listen today's show to find out all the reasons to do it the right way. And if you should not be doing it in your particular situation. And as always we have all the links on the show notes page at ID podcast dot com. And if you guys check out John's first with us to episode one thirteen why it's critical to have respect in a relationship. There is a free download guide for that associate. We'll link to willing to that in this genus page. It's actually one of our most popular. Episodes. So check it out. Enjoy today's show today show is brought to you by our online course spark my relationship. Create more passion, improve your communication and build a stronger more intimate connection with your partner in less than ninety days. We've collaborated with fifteen therapists and psychologists to bring you the strategies marriage therapists, teach their clients to unlock a special offer only for IT podcast listeners. Visit spark my relationship dot com slash unlock. That's spark. My relationship dot com slash unlock. John. Thanks so much for joining us back on the show. Thank you for having me, John. We've given our listeners a little overview totem about your professional history. We like to start the show with having you tell us in our listeners why you enjoy helping people improve their relationships. Well, I went through a divorce about ten years ago and. I just got really passionate about helping other people just maneuver about better relationships and going through divorce also becoming a parapet. And so I just started to white in blog about love and my revelations. And it's like I just heard two truck people who wanted to get them coaching or therapy with their relationship. So it kinda just happened organically. And I really believe in is idea that whatever you go through in mice. If you're able to be there, and and learn from that, and you could actually use that in your story to help other people's so that's kind of crap and it's a beautiful story in in. Yeah. It's kind of. Fitting to obviously, you don't want to go through a divorce, but we have these moments in life where you experience something. And until you go through it, you don't realize like it's a thing like until your relationship suffers you don't really realize like there's this whole thing around relationships and like doing them better. And and obviously when you're experiencing it personally magnifies that can magnify it. And the fact that that you were training to be at therapist and Sarah. And I have in a way felt that way where we didn't think a lot about relationships until we started doing this. And until we got married, and then it's like man, they could do this way better. And that's why we love. Yeah. I think a lot of people see the boars or breakup as is Hughes trag- tragedy and the guns basecamp. Stale here or defective on their forehead and not true. You know, relationships expire, and it creates a lot of rich soil for you to reexamining and learn and what your contribution was the expression. My horse was actually the best thing. That's happened to me as far as we position me and sending on my my he journey. I would've total child man boy when I was buried, and it was in the divorce. That was the first domino in, you know, actually, kind of become a man, you know. Yeah. Sometimes we need like something to us out of the funk we've been in or or just, yeah, I'm into a realization like it seems that you have in and you mentioned the word journey, and and that's what it is. It's it's a never ending journey in this process. And we love being able to talk to people like yourselves and and get information for this journey in. Today's topic is one that we've had a lot of listeners ask. About it's one. I've thought about in the past Sarah, and I have talked about personally in our relationship in that is. Being friends with the opposite sex when you're in a relationship. So like if I had a female friend, and then along those same lines being friends with exes or former lovers and how we can navigate that. Because it's kind of like something you see in a in a gossip type magazine like headline like it's like one of these taboo, topics. So I'm really interested. I have a personal take on it. But I'm I'm really interested to hear your professional opinion. So let's dive right in is it straight to it. Poses in helping people with this topic. It's it's it's a big one. So here's the thing. I had the general rule that a lot of people wanna be friends with their exes, and I get that. But I think a lot of people on its with themselves or their intentions. I think you could be friends with your ex if you grew your dating currently and your ex and his or her partner can actually go on a double date and actually have a great time. You know, I think at that level without any kind of jealousy, or you know, any that are, you know, other that are not friendship related. So I think a lot of people wanna be friends with their exit, and then, but they don't realize they have feelings for them, or they're, you know, keeping someone kind of in their back pocket excetera, and you're not being friends with someone. And also, I think a lot of people after the relationship you don't time they could be with their. X and it's only going, you know, couple of weeks or maybe a couple of months and sticky comes back in, and you know, it's fair to whoever they're dating or themselves because they end up being like picking scabs, and they don't heal. There's obviously a lot to unpack here in. I think you just gave us in our listeners a great framework to ask yourself like could you go on a double date with your ex in their partner and everyone have a good time because. Yeah, it's like, yeah. I wanna be friends, and I'm just going to go and hang out with them like or talk to them. But it's it's my own thing, and my is not involved, and if they're in a relation of their partners not involved, and then it's like it's like a lot of things in relationship. It's it's not open. It's not open communication. It's like I have this secret relationship, even if it's not romantic with someone that I used to be romantic with and like you said there can be all different. Situations. Maybe they're still feelings there. Are you name it? But I think just asking yourself that question. Will put all that BS aside. And it'll be like, oh, well, no that won't be a good situation. And. It also like when you say you want to be friends with your ex 'cause there's different levels about here's Jeanne warm to be friendly and locates them once every six months, or do you want them to be active friend, your light? And you want them to be friend your life. Do you have any? Do you want that to be an ethic? Friendship. You have to be okay with, you know, say going on a double date and going bowling and see your ex holding hands or kissing curtain partner and being happy for her in most people. They're not they're, you know, yet, they wanna be without then it's like, well, how can you be friends with them? If you're jealous or have, you know, all these other feelings that that it's not gonna lead the soil for a healthy wrenches. How would you go about initiating this conversation with your partner and saying like, hey, I wanna have a friendly relationship with my ex and I wanted to be okay with you. And let's say that other person is not okay. How do you go about that dialogue? I think you have to be on. With your partner in your feelings for your ex where you're at you know, I think if if you don't want to be friends with my ex, and that's it and you put a period there. There's gonna be a lot of questions. Right. But you're like, listen, I have no feelings for my ex. We are now friends we've healed we've moved on. This is why and be friends with her, you know, etcetera, maybe we were friends before we got into intimate, and then your partner can understand, and maybe, you know, support and courage that, but if you're just like, I wanna be friends with annex you not bad. It's my life there. It's probably not good way to go in. So what if you do still have feelings for your acts, like you're happy with your partner, your super happy in reason relationships are hard is because they involve a motions and feelings we can't control those a lot of the time. So let's say we we love our current partner. But we still have like these feelings for our ex how. How can we talk about that with our current partner? I think it's not fair if you have feelings, even if they're, you know, residue feelings with your acts. I think it's dangerous. I don't think inserts your partner, we're spending time with that person. With your ex I think it goes to the question why? So basically, why are you what are you friends with your ex if he and you, and this is where you really have gone with yourself if you wanna be friends with your ex because she or he the navy person. And we've always been a great friend missing a friend. And and you can, you know want wanna continue to build that? I think that's great. If you wanna be friends with X because you can just in case, whatever you're now, those workout or you want to be friends with your ex because you know, you're still attracted to them on a certain level, or maybe you seek their approval and validation depending on dynamic their relationship. And there's something that you want from your ex or maybe getting something for you're not getting current partner. All of those things are going to be too. Dangerous territory because when you have that emotionally, you're setting yourself up for that to grow, and certainly you know because you're in your accent history. You guys get into getting emotional touched again or physically, and it's not fair to shoot into love. So can we talk to our current partner about it? So rather than reaching out to our ex and having, you know, aside relationship, even if it's just dialogue or motion. How about just talking to a partner? Like, hey, I I I want you to know I still have feelings for this person. And here's why like how does that conversation go or should it even happen? I think that's a tough conversation. I don't think it's needed. Because once you say you for someone else doesn't matter who it is. You're basically saying, I'm not, you know hundred ten in this emotion. I think there's something that you shouldn't. Tell your partner, but you shouldn't be talked about you know, what I'm saying. 'cause it's gonna harm to relationships. And I think that's one of them. You know, if you still have emotions and feelings for your acts, and you wanna hang out with your ex. I don't think you would tell your partner that they're like, I don't know how that conversation would be helpful in any way. I think that's something you this with therapists and figure stuff out on your own to make the decision either that you want you actually in your life or not it seems like it's almost a red flag to me if somebody is telling their partner that they have feelings for their their acts that maybe they're not maybe they're not in the relationship. They should be in right? Or maybe they haven't had enough time to to really, you know, clothes or he'll or move on you know, they're still residue there. Now, do you think that if you are already friends with your ex like time, it's Brian and now friends, and then you need someone right? Then. All the right to continue to be friends with your ex if that makes sense like if you start getting someone after the friendship is established, then they're meeting you, and the, you know ex been your life is to meeting as your life is ready. So you've mentioned these words a couple of times. And and I wanna point it out in in you said history the shared history, and and time so two of those things I think it's important for people listening to realize like you might be listening like I really just want to talk to my ex miss them. And and your recently broken up and for the right reasons, they're not the person for you. Sometimes you just need time to distance yourself from like the tat the very deep emotional attachments that that can take place in. It's not necessary. Early. Meaning like that. That was a good relationship. It's more that you were attached to the validation that they gave you or you were attached to the place that you live together. Like, there's all these things I had this experience that I I lay to realize with an X era, an IOT talked about it that a lot of my interest in in or like, I guess attachment is the easiest word to use was because the time we spent together was in traveling in another country. And I later realized like those experiences were tied in with the relationship that we had and it was almost more. So that time in my life. I was young. I was the first time travelling in a new country that that was like a big part of my attachment to that. That person that makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. And you know, here's the thing. A lot of our ECS is created, you know, the deepest imprint right in March with powdered snow before we met the one that that you know, who are socks off. And it turned out that that relationship was called opinion on that a lot of the toxic. Unhealthy relationships. Have the most itchy right? They produce the most glue, and those it's it's hard to be friends with those X's because of the dynamic, you know, what I'm saying to people have changed so much that they just completely different. So that then everyday difference is it the same. You're gonna fall into a comfort almost like they were drug, and you are realizing and a lot of people aren't don't. Dismissive of the power of that. And they're like, oh, yeah. You know, it's okay. On first starting you know there and suddenly before that, you know, that attraction or the draw, and it may not even be love, you know, obviously that didn't work. There was a reason why it's just that codependence. You know, animalistic may be and draw is. In the same pattern. And maybe you meet your partner for you. And it's like, nothing's changed. And then you guys break up again. So that stuff happens all the time too. It's so funny that you say that because I feel like among my girlfriend's the most toxic relationships are the ones that I see them struggling the hardest to get over. And it makes sense. Because like you said, it's just captivating and harder for them to move on. And yet is there anything else you wanna add on add onto that as to maybe tips for them. Yeah. I think if you if the past the breakers, I call it the breakers like, you know, the ocean you get it through breakers to reach calm wires. And if you're in a relationship, and it's healthy in you used to unhealthy. It was gonna be a lot of turbulence you gonna feel a lot of resistance of familiar. You might have you know, you mother take that for traction task. That and you actually start to really peel raiders and starting loving deeper creamy definitions of love, maybe you're, you know, maybe experienced spiritual then that deepening once that is healthy. I think can Crips anything that's unhealthy, but you have to this win. They're right. I think it takes time. I think it takes a lot of getting to know someone on you know, on multi layers, if you're just used to the initial attraction and today, I really believe in this low burn over the lightning in the bottle. And usually when you see someone, and and you know, you just lose track of time and the guy the person guy or girl blows you away. And you're like, this is the one I feel like there's a lot of stuff happening underneath that this functional and crazy that your son aware of and that's where it's coming from. Yeah. It's interesting that you say that we've talked about it in the past. But I've definitely I think Sarah would agree that our relationship has been the slow burn. And you know, and in the beginning of our relationship, I in even later on I would sorta questioned that or or wonder like men like why? Not that this is bad. But like why isn't it like, I can't breathe without you? And so much of that is colored by coacher. And and what we see in movies in the fairytale stuff in. There are relationships that are like that. And and do last forever, and that's a beautiful thing. But I think it's important to realize that it doesn't have to be that way in and like you said like if it is the other way where it's just like Superintent, there might be other things it's not to say that always the case. But that you're just overlooking. And a lot of things. Because, you know, our motions are are strong in the way that you guys met or or the example, I use of travelling in another country, and it's like these new experiences and. Could be the bad guy on a motorcycle. And like, that's like thrilling. And but the reality is he's just a bad guy. And the motorcycles not terrible husband. So, but yeah, it's an interesting point when you feel like I can't live without you wanna be with you every day all of that. I think that's young world. I think that comes from moving yourself in someone and lose yourself in someone that's that feels as the it's like cocaine. I mean, there's so much dopamine shooting troop rain, and it's also very romantic, and it's you know, it's kind of war being programmed and movies and media what my feels like, but that's actually not healthy love. And I think that comes from a place of feeling feeling holes in ourselves that comes from maybe something snows from Yulia dysfunction from us growing up like a lot of other things. And usually those relationship. Where it's like, so like, so so many so much fireworks. We just can't be away from the personnel. You physically get ill ago gonna relationships. They don't have legs that's stain -able. I mean, I think that that's where a lot of co-dependency control Josie in all of that, you you are two people coming together and kind of Michigan to one person and that being sound Antic, but it's actually completely unhealthy, and and not sustainable, so I just wanna bring it back to to what you said at the at the beginning as far as being friends with your ex. Of his there's a ton unpacked like you said family history. Our childhood attachments. To think about with with each individual case. But if you can ask yourself, if you're like, how should I should I not, you know, try to have this relationship with my ex if you can go on a double date and everyone's cool with it. I'm both sides. And it's like a good thing. And you're not lying to yourself. And it really truly is then that might be something to pursue. But I just think that's valuable thought exercise or and then maybe in you think it's good and then put it into practice in. And it's not good, then you'll know pretty fast in real life too. Yeah. You had that yourself if you wanna be friends with you, why if you want to be friends with your expertise to build a solid authentic friendship and no longer romantic or see each other in that way. But the friendship is solid that's fair. And I think that's valuable if you wanna be friends with your ex because you wanna take chance or you want insurance or do you want approval validation, or you know, there's something happening. You feel like you feel bad or whatever it is. Those are not reasons to be friends with anyone if you're not going to be good friend. Exactly. So. We could go on and on about this and all the different angles in their important. But I want to leave it there in in that super valuable as far as being friends with your ex for us in our listeners to think about let's talk about being friends with the opposite sex. So let's say I in turn have talked about this. And I used to think that you couldn't do it because there's always like this sexual attention, but my views on that change. But I'd like to hear yours as as far as if I had a female friend that was just like a friend that I don't know I met at the at the gym or wherever, you know, you meet friends. Is that is that kosher is that something that can go on that? I wanna tell you about today's sponsors. Today's episode is sponsored by babble. It's the new year and you guys got resolutions. I'm sure maybe workout or learn a new language put that on there. And if you're gonna do it you want to get babble babble is the number one selling language learning app in the world, we've told you this Sarah is learning Spanish and not only can you learn Spanish, which is super super helpful for us here in Costa Rica, but you can also learn French Italian German Russian Swedish and more. There is a total of fourteen languages that. You can learn in babble. So you need to check them out there at ten to fifteen minute lessons are available on the app or online, and they are designed to get you. Speaking confidently and your new. Language within weeks? So if this is your New Year's resolution, you can have it accomplished within weeks. He'll be learning new language. So you can try babble for free. 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Audible try it free for thirty days by visiting audible dot com slash I do or by texting I do to five hundred five hundred. That's awful dot com slash I do or text. I do to five hundred five hundred. Yeah. I mean, I don't think we should limit us having friends based on gender. I mean, that's that's I think it's ridiculous. Of course, you could be friends with I think that we get something from, you know, our guy friends that we don't from our female friends, and we get something for female friends, we give from our friends, but just as people gender aside. Everyone's different. And we shouldn't not be friends with someone because they're offered that gender. You know, again, it goes back to why why are you friends person the person because because she's hot And you were then that's you know, if you if you are if you are, and you are. Cheating someone else. And that's going to bring you lot of patient. If you're with someone because you guys are great friends, and you had, you know, get something from this person. And it's okay to get something from a friend that you don't with your partner. I think that's totally. Okay. It doesn't it doesn't make you do your partner less or who you choose a love. Maybe you have a friend that whole areas is the opposite sex. But that doesn't mean that you wanna sleep with that person or love that person. You just you know, maybe should the same sense of humor. And that's totally okay. Or maybe a common of passing from word or cycles that you don't with your say your wife. That's what that's okay. And do I have to be okay with that? And your wife should also be able to have guy friends that she has some things in common with and that there she wants to sleep with them. You know, I think the key as you alluded to is to be honest with yourself like are you you I want Rennes with this? Woman because I like a personality or because I'm a tract it tour in in. It's you know, it's funny. It's like we have this relationship with ourselves. We I mean think about that same lie to yourself. That's pretty like. It's pretty interesting. But we do it all the time. And and that would be an example of like, oh, yeah. I'm just I really like her personality but deep down. It's like, you're you're track did in in deep down, you know, that. But you're just choosing to nor it or or you know, lie to yourself about it. Yeah. And here thing. This is something a lot of people have struggled here. You are going to be attracted to other people. Besides the proceeds of there's no way around that. There's billions of people on this planet. You're going to be attracted doesn't even fall in love. But you're going to see attractive of qualities whether it's a FedEx or humor, or you know, someone's drive or whatever just like a day. You know, you're gonna run into someone at Starbucks and things like, oh, wow. She's very transit or she has a nice smile. He has a nice blind, whatever. And I think that's that's being tune in. And I don't think that we should more. That's or stuff Rassett or deny it because when you do it just amplifies it, right? And then there's a lot of people walking around with your shame because they have found people track. Did that the that the, you know, not their girlfriend or wife, that's very different than choosing to love someone? So, you know, love loving someone and as you through the world, you're going to be attracted to. Many people. I love that you say that because so often when you think of traction, you think of physically and not really the other attributes that people can bring to the table like you said humor or certain type of personality. So love that you explain that. Because it really can. I think make people look at it differently. Like when they become friends with somebody of the opposite sex. It may not be because they're physically attracted to them. It could be they have a really great personality or they're funny, or they whatever, you know. It's it's viral and appreciating someone noticing gifts, right? And and and and do the manager noticing their ass or no seeing their passion for something. It's okay. It doesn't mean that you want to build a life with that person. It just means you going around the world awake and noticing, and that's like that's not gonna stop. And also you have to be okay with your partner being attractive to people. To finding people at tractive. And if you're not you're gonna have a lot of anxiety. You know, you're you're gonna you're gonna create torture and suffering for yourself. So how do you call about hanging out with the other person of the opposite sex like how do you talk about that with your partner? How do you schedule the time? Like, how does that work for me? If I have if I if I have a partner who won't allow me female friends to me as a red flag in the the part with the partner that I'm eating of to me. That's a sign of insecurity, control jealousy. All of that stuff. It doesn't mean that it doesn't negotiable. But then there's the conversation there. You know, I think that a yet to be I arms with yourself. But then you also have to be honest with your partner, you know. And here's the thing Jozies. Okay. It's a feeling like anything else. It's the Joe's behavior. That's not. Okay. So we are also. Going to be Joe is if partner, you know, I don't know talking to some, you know, someone that we think is like be intimidated by or that has something that we don't etcetera and that feeling is temporary. And that's okay. And I think it's okay to even talk to your partner about feeling jealous. Not for them to do anything about it. You know, it's your own stuff, but it's a jealous behavior. So now, if he starts to be controlled any or you tell your partner that you know, she can't wear this or that. Then that's that stuff is talked to that stuff is damaging one of the it's it's a bigger broader topic or idea is, and you alluded to a little bit is that we're human, and we're going to be attracted to other people in this is a bit along the vein of open relationship, and or just not even open, but different a different look. Doc on monogamy, and it seems to be more and more in the popular culture. And and it's a very hard time right now. Yeah. And so into me fits into this conversation a bit like everything we're saying is in the lens of a monogamous relationship. And can we do this? And and it is interesting. That this conversations happening and people are trying different forms think. It's Dan savage monogamous, so different forms of monogamy where maybe that friend of the opposite sex is a friend, and sometimes it's more than a friend romantically in the lines get blurred. So where do you sit on this, and how this fits into everything we're talking about? Yeah. So move Unagi be is on trial L right now. There's a lot of conversation about this in a lot of people are are are not. That's and I know why. Because it's not a wiring thing, we're not born to organize, and I'll give me was created by, you know, at the structure, and it's if you if you challenge someone until them that that it's okay to not be monogamous. Usually it. It clauses whole house of cards. Right collapses. The the the picket fence, it classes that will Amy Jove hackery ever after on so people really hold onto with two hands. I think the Malcolm's practice, right? I think if the daily practice, and I think that it's okay to talk about other. Other types of of of of loving, you know, other types of relationships. So when you're probably or open, I I think it's depending on what you what you liking what you want and what works for you. You know? But this stuff we've never really talked about before and society, but it's become a big topic today. I think partly because of our culture, partly because we are actually starting to have more non-negotiables. We actually didn't seem to ourselves. We're not asking questions were curious about what some other ways of wanting someone looks like so in all conversations editor good, you know. I don't think they're things to be afraid of you know, what you want and we'll review and also works for you may be different fighters now, and that's okay too. It's an interesting area of conversation and research, and and I guess real world. Examples for for and I and I read it's I guess it's more kind of the bible of open relationships. It seems like is sex at dawn. Chris Ryan, which is like an anthropological look at that looking at other primates in human history. And how it led us to like you said the cultural contract monogamy, and what is our true nature and in. It's interesting to me from that perspective because I like to examine a lot of things in in my life in our life and try not to look at what everyone else is doing in more because society doesn't always get it right with a lot of things. And this is an example of I'm not saying, I know what the answer is. But it's interesting to think about in what I would. I'm not advocating for. Either or really, but having an open mind because it really blew my mind was like, oh, there's another way to have overlay ship. And because you don't even think of that because that's not socially acceptable. It's not even known 'em now with podcast, and obviously the internet in these these ideas are being more widely disseminated in in talked about. And it's something that Seren I've talked about quite a bit. And wanna talk about an explorer more on the show because I think it is interesting. And if you look at the divorce rate, that's like whatever it is. It's fifty percent or or over fifty percent, if something if a rocket if you're playing crashes fifty percent of the time, you might be like, maybe this is not we're doing something wrong here, or maybe there's a better way to fly. And that's kind of the way I look at it not even from personal experience. But just looking at those numbers of like wait in. I come from a divorce, you know, parents divorced. So I have that personal experience. But like, yeah, this is not working fifty percent of the time. Maybe I don't I'm not saying, I know the alternative, but maybe we need to explore different ways to do this. Yeah. Yeah. And you know, there's also religion upbringing of things that move stands monogamy as the only way to love our heads. Right. And I'm criminal, and it's something that that works for me now. But I don't know what what how what I'm gonna be five years from now. And I think just kind of being open to all forms just to bring up a lot in unit challenge. Shoot a stretch issue. There's always a good thing because they could also widened your Menges, and it can give you definitions on what love could be exactly. And that's kinda wanna wanted to bring that up in because it does fit into the topic of what we're saying is is outside of. Of of your belief system that you know, and I'm not saying this critically 'cause I've been guilty of it. I think we all have of like, oh, you're not supposed to be friends with your ex like that's like a common sort of theme in relation. Like, no. You don't talk to your expert. You can't have a friend with the of the opposite sex, and or you you can't have a an open relationship. These are been drilled into our heads. And I think if you just have like, you said an open mind, it's gonna make it easier for you to explore that with your partner of like. Oh, yeah. Like, you can have a female friend that you like hanging out with and it's not that you'd love me less or to be with them. I think that's a that goes with everything in life relationships activities trying new things like to have that open mind, but it takes practice. Yeah. I mean, look how far we've come with. I mean, you know, maybe like even in the fifties. The idea of even bidding sex toys into the room, you know, or all of that. And now, it's like there's nothing I think was different ways of loving people open relationships. Now, gimme polygamy all of that. I think, you know, six years from now, it's going to be more of a general conversation and mess of like, there's, you know, less stigma and less like this this weird thing. I think this judgment. Yeah. I think it's already changing an in. That's why love doing this podcast. And that's what opened up the book sex at dawn. I found out. I was listening to I think a podcast and heard about it and this was like three years ago. And I'm I feel like. I'm very open minded person. I I like to, but I didn't really even know open relationships were thing. And and it was like, oh, it's in the same way that like if I never knew that surfing wasn't activity, and then all of a sudden, I saw people ride waves in the ocean. Oh my goodness. Like, what is that all about? And I wanna I wanna see like these new new ways to experience life. And it's interesting doesn't mean you have to do it. But it's interesting to explore and learn about, and it can help you in your monogamous relationship by learning more about you think you've got to be good with one partner. Imagine the work that it takes to have multiple partners in the communication, and and everything that goes into that. So it's interesting dialogue that we'll have to have you on for a part to in could just dive into that. Yeah. For sure I mean at the end of the day, you're on this life one nine I mean, depending on your beliefs. You may you may continue. But in this body, you're in on at one time on his life. And what that means to us going to mean, you know, something different to you than than other people. And it's just always be honest with yourself, and that's not only with sexuality and relationships where you know, your definition of success and all of that stuff. So and I think people are more on his today than ever before. Which is exciting. Yeah. Yeah. And it's so true. What you just said right there, and it's a great way for us to wrap up in for our listeners to take home and think about when thinking about being friends with an X or someone of the opposite sex sex or anything in their life. So John why don't we wrap up by having you tell our listeners where they can find you online. Tell us about your new book. And then we'll say goodbye for sure I have a new book called used to be miserable. Fuck maybe guy. Timmy for life documents my journey from being miserable. To now being a lot less miserable. But of course, there's a, you know, a lot of revelation than sixty six season builds for it's written for men, but it's actually for women to a lot of Mair join because it kind of sets new standards and areas to look at like when we're talking about today about, you know, can't be friends with your eyes etcetera. So I really wanted to street level and talk about all that and you can find him. I have my own podcast. It's about ending Superfund and stuff there in shock clouds being with this podcast, and it's on, you know, Spotify teams and all that and then across from media just at being so Instagram Petra excellent. We'll have linked to your podcast your book and your past Assode that you did with us about a year ago on your show notes page on our website at ide- podcasts dot com, and again, thank you so much for joining us back on the show done. Yeah. Thank you for creating this kind of conversation and dialogue, and you know, everything starts with a conversation. So I. You guys for continued to talk about all of these. Guys. We hope you enjoyed today's episode as always all the links are in the show notes page as well as on the podcast description. And while you're on our website. We encourage you guys to check out our fourteen day happy couple challenge, we send you an Email for fourteen days with simple doable challenges to help strengthen and improve your relationship and on our website. We also have a bunch of free resources for your relationship. So we encourage you to check those out. We also have our love tribe on Facebook. We encourage you guys to join the tribe and be there for support for each other. If you have questions or just need, some relationship advice, we are all here for each other. The group has grown to almost a thousand people, and we love it. So we hope you guys during that you can go to Facebook love tribe fam- and you'll find this rate there. And if you. You are interested in learning. More about our flagship course spark my relationship. We hope you guys check it out. We have a special offer that is only four podcast listeners. So you can go to spark my relationship dot com slash unlock. And you can unlock that special offer and learn more as always thank you guys so much and we'll see you next week.