Ric Flair vs. Ronnie Garvin (Title switch, late NWA '87)


mm-hmm hey it's Conrad Thompson and you're listening to grill and JR with the Voice of Wrestling Mr. Jim Ross Jim. How are sorry man very good Conrad glad to be with you? Good to hear your voice. I've never both above ground and appreciate all the folks joining us here this week for another grueling chair. This is going to be a hell of a show. It brought back so many memories one of the more unique times in my professional life and some anxious to talk about of course what we're talking about is a little bit old school. We're celebrating the anniversary of Ronnie Garvin defeating the nature boy ric Flair for the world heavyweight title believe it or not and it went down on September twenty fifth so yesterday would have been unbelievably the thirty two year anniversary of this title switch the happened at the Joe Louis Arena in Detroit Michigan it drew about eight thousand paying fans are gate of around one hundred and eleven grand and that was pretty good business here in nineteen eighty seven and we should mention that these guys at wrestled each other many times over the years but the difference between those matches and this one as Garvan actually one he panned ric flair and wins wins the world title and that's not something that a lot of people were expecting even a week prior to this they wrestled September eighteenth in Pittsburgh and they went about twenty five minutes announce before both men were counted out before we talk about the sort of backstage goings on that led up to this win. Did you know that Ronnie Garvin was going. It'll be the world champion probably if I recall. It wasn't a long advance notice. I think maybe maybe a week you know Tony any being closer to Tony call the show which has a lot of fun. I thought we did idealistic back the first time I've heard back in thirty two years folks so I think maybe maybe a week Conrad. It wasn't the thirst for me to find out stuff in advance. I never really as prominent as some might think 'cause I. I always thought that knowing too much affected. My work on air wasn't a spontaneous. I just wasn't quite cutting edge as I'd like to be so I didn't really go out looking for the information. I think maybe a week I was surprised I was more surprised that the decision to put the title on Ronnie Garvin the NWEA title was even being considered because it came out of nowhere and I think maybe that's part of the charm y dusty the booker dusty Rhodes decided to go that way so it was a it wasn't it wasn't a well discussed because does he would not have ensured the pushback and with some there would have been pushed back talents and others in the in the in the loop because Ronnie was not hot Ronnie was not a working main events regularly Ronnie was on top of the world and of the role momentum. You didn't have any of those things but he was a hell of a wrestler a reliable durable son of a bitch without question and and going back and watching this match earlier today man those to some against beat the living hell out of each other I mean they mangled her. Those shots awesome those palm strikes always sayings Jesus Christ Almighty. It was so busy so folks if you do anything this eighteen minutes or so twenty minutes go find signed a garment flare eighty-seven stark aid and you'll see exactly what I'm talking about. It is a next level performance by both guys but we'll talk about the rematch. We're going to start with this match but I guess we should address the elephant in the room the physicality in this match in this feud whereas a lot of people look back and they say uh-huh Ronnie Garvin this or that the the brutality between the two I mean these guys were both waking up sore and stiff and if you've been waking up soren or in Steph and not really sleeping well at night you gotta try a purple mattress. purple has been founded by two brothers who've been developing special cushioning technology. They've they've had patented for like thirty years. 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Our listeners get a free purple pillow with the purchase of a mattress and that's in addition to the great free gifts. They're offering site-wide all you've got to take advantage of this text. Jr Two eight four UH Nash Eight eight eight now the only way to get the free pillow is the text jr two eight four dash eight eight eight. That's Jr two eight four eight eight eight message and data rates may apply but man the mattress wasn't the only thing purple these guys chests were purple when they were each other or not yeah it caught yes gone right. I want to say the perfect mattress on May the I get There's no when you watch these TV commercials. We all got him in every market. especially in North America furniture commercials are very privileged free province and furniture store owners store managers loved see themselves on television and they have horrible commercials They just got a mattress but they're gonNA give you all these ads while these matches are great but not a damn. 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He heard testimony. I WANNA check it out for yourself. Eight four that's eight nine looking to get a great deal on your mattress. You'll get a free pillow two and hundred nine risk retrial how do you miss with that a- as Jr two eight four Dash Eight let's talk about sort of the back story of this match because there's so much going on a few months prior to this US Crockett wants up buying out bill watts and you're part of that and I'm sure we'll have a different show sort of talking about that long form but now that we fast forward award a few months and we're here in September of eighty-seven what's your role at this point. You were sort of the right hand man Bill Watts before. Are you living in Charlotte yet. What's your day to day life? Look like within this new combined merged organization. I never lived in Charlotte during that whole time. and my responsibilities were to less working for Jimmy Crockett then they were worker cowboy. Jimmy already have people in place doing the things I was doing for bill they were in their rhythm their system so I basically helped format some live market interviews and not much more than we broadcast every week so again every week an hour talking about before we went on the air today these young cats Ah. Aws GonNA realize TV every seven days on a national and global basic Ena dates park it serious goddamn business and I hope it taken seriously I try to take my job when I went to Crockett because I knew kraken Hedda he had announcers he bought the great wbob coddle Tony Vanni who was young and tremendous Davy Crockett pitcher so I knew I had to bring my best game so that was focused on basically that and you know being able to team with Tony was nice thing. WF television obviously to the syndicated show but I was frustrated a lot in the early time because what sure where I was headed jobwise and of course the job I wanted was to be the voice of the paper views and to be on TV s in in a viable roll. It didn't start out that way but I earned my stripes at Dusty Jamea confidence in me and one thing I gotta say Conrad. Tony Shivani was total total class act all the way through the whole transition he was the incumbent he was a great announcer still is and we'll be kicking ass on Wednesday nights a and I love being around. Tony is true friend but that's what we that's what came out of that deal not just I got to work a nice gig and I got an assignments. I met a great France has been one of my friend Tony Pann for thirty years so this it was a really unique time for me to get adjusted mcadoo. All all the travel is living in Dallas and shorts in Dallas and go anywhere and I did so it was a it was a fun run but I was not doing any more than than I was assigned nine or whatever it was I was assigned to the best of my building case closed. Let's talk a little bit about where the company is at this point at least from you know in front of the camera ric Flair's your world heavyweight champion. He's been champs since August ninth of eighty six Nikita Co law as United States champion. He's he's been a champ since August twenty third of eighty six telly blanchard has been your television champion since November twenty seventh of eighty six your world tag champs or Manny Fernandez Vernanda as and recruit since December six of eighty six Barry Windham and Ronnie Garvin have been your tax champs since our US tag champs since December ninth of Beattie six or in your world six man tag team champions or dusty Rhodes and the road warriors in May of nineteen eighty six so that's says we're sort of coming into eighty seven. We've got quite a few champions. How did you think you know this was all going to work out when now the WF comes in and they bring another a- another group of belts were you as somebody who had been a WASCO concerned how maybe the talent would integrate with Crockett because there is the fear of well? They're just going to bury these guys like you know I think a lot of wrestling fans when you look at a more modern transaction like this when w w purchased by the WB I think most fans myself included assumed well. They're just going to squash all those guys and by and large that proved to be the case were are you concerned that that would be the case for some of your buddies from the watts days as they merged with Crockett of course I was concerned about some of those guys but the good thing there was a desi saw talent and guys like sting Steiner's Dr Death that the top of my head that could help him right away. I know that you know Terry Tales. TV champion much underrated that you you know he he did the honours at one at some point there for for Nicole Makita Cola I was worried about it and not just it was a tough tough decision for the booker to be in 'cause remember the pro wrestling businesses not unlike anything else that we can describe or talk about which makes so so much fun to be involved with and that is the talent or very they close quarters close ranks on the TV time the TV. Tom Talking about was the TV time tbs the Saturday night tbs show was heartbeat heartbeat the whole nine yards buying large that would be my take on it and guy and they're always so many minutes on that show there's only so many times somebody interview minute so so many wrestling minutes on that show the TV studios and everybody off that time is valuable. You can't get over if you're not on television and if if you're on television in a negative way then get over there either so I was concerned about that and I think desi had a handful because he had a lot of very all those guys you dismisses source champions all incumbents all you know on the on the dusty road side of the aisle which they had to because he was the booker junior Jimmy Crocker Saudi al so they they were defensive of the territory of the end of UA Crockett promotions so I I was concerned about that and at the end of the day or the WF could have had a trade a split some time on tbs on Saturday night give them a heartbeat instead instead losing on tbs you could strengthen that roster in my own pits Jimmy crock and raw garner in the signature air hanger in in in Atlanta was we have we have two leagues and these two leagues can operate separately there the AFC and the NFC and then at the end of the year we have a super bowl and then he got all his fresh product that you can utilize on on your paper patriots to stay fresh and and so that was the idea. Everybody seemed to like it but somewhere along the way it was either pitch to the wrong people. I don't know does he may not like it. I don't even know we never talked about that. Be Honest with you but some guys internally we're concerned are Conrad as you well know there. Paranoid is hail paranoid as hell and most of the time you'd think they have all the self esteem in the world and they don't so there's a lot of insecurities on display right after that the deal was made well. Maybe some of our listeners epsom insecurities picture your face in the mirror and see how those wrinkles around your eyes. How about crows feet or those under eye bags? I was getting a little bigger now magin. They're gone not talking about some risky expensive surgery just gone in minutes called Plex derm clinically studied syrup that visibly eliminates your wrinkles crow's-feet and under eye bags and minutes. It's the edge you've been looking for. 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I feel like this is something that we might well. We won't see but will now you've been using it when we see on. Aws next week he will exactly will you know folks the first thing that people look at you're talking to them or your eyes and the next thing for teeth I would put my teeth. That's cool idea but under the is folks is the money eliminate those bags look like he had slept in a couple of days. It looks talk a little bit of you know her Mr Thing get rid of that puffiness and the is tell the story the eyes of the windows to your soul and there's no the reason that your eyes should not look great. If you've got a cure in this is the cure and it is that what connor this it's almost like we're paying our listeners to try try. It is a great deal fifty percent off plus another ten dollars off go to trump dot com and use that Promo code grilling checkout. Let's talk about the the behind the scenes creative you keep saying well does. He thought that he thought that you weren't plugged in all creatively creatively at this point fair to say yes I say so when it came to the the call you're doing your broadcasting now. Now you're now going to sort of Mesh up with Tony Shirvani as you've talked about. was there any sort of production meeting or anybody said Rjr art and here's what we need you to do different or here's what we want you to try over here or does that not even really happen here. No no no. They don't change a thing they wouldn't be the key being aggressive and passionate does he loved my work and so did Jimmy and that's not knocking Tony or Bob whatsoever. I had a different style right and that's all that was just talking about. Two great pictures left-hander was right entered so they get you out so that whatever whatever the deal is I did a match on. UW Television I'm sure that some of the W W network or youtube somewhere where I believe it was Dr Death winning the UW Title I want to say he wanted against big. bubba Rogers Aka the big boss man or it was a woman gain name. I can't remember off the top of my head but I just saw pitcher on twitter the other day this week that had a locker room scene of champagne celebration all that good stuff but anyway back the story was that dusty call me they saw that match that footage and he said it is a good is best championship match. Call I've ever heard and that made me feel good because as a new guy on new district before that I it come in for cowboy and you know we we hung out always argued about oh you Texas correctness Texas. Oh you about the West on October twelve and so it was a it took me to my breath because I thought it was Kinda cool but here's what he did is. If this legend has it is truthful not me legend but the legend the story I think he he called Tony and David into the office to listen to that call because he wanted them to hear how you're supposed to call. A high stakes takes big time championship match and I don't. I don't think other than the last two or three years that David Crop never forgave me uh I get along with him and Tony courses like a little brother so that's all Kubat spot 'cause they raise the bar to where you didn't expect expected to go and be now your peers so you need to work with an walking away may look at the corner of their eye so they change a thing man and then when I when I did when I went to work on the D. show they call it. The B. As in a d with that was the end of gate pro wrestling with Bob Live Carl Bob have been the long-time clear by play guy and I said hey look to color Bob's Bosnian play about by Nope nope. I don't want Bob do color and he's we've talked to Bob. He's cool with it. So I go talk. Bob Bob the okay with this deal and I don't want. I don't want to infringe he. He should Jim. It's going to be a pleasure. I'm glad I haven't got responsibility knowing every storyline every detail everything you're going to get us in the breaks you can get us out of the brakes your fish the btr's mixed my life. I will help a lot easier so balsam boom. Not only were partners riding together. We're stopping to cracker barrel or going to get beat barbecue and I saw pitcher. They've got brought tears from is it had bob is wife Jan in me at one of the Charlotte Charlotte convention thing that God do whatever it is a nice event they used to have there and let me tear up because the the BOB and Jan who'd have thought Janet would go first Bob and Jackie luminous living in Raleigh but I just love work with Conrad. Just those are some Greg Monroe while the show is so much fun for me to do 'cause right now. I'm thinking about that or are happy times. There were happy times and I don't know a lot of our fans of one or two here's talk about multiple stuff and I'm excited to do here and it is a bit of a transition period professional wrestling by this point you know eighty seven seven and going on in the eighty-eight brock it's going to be adding rosters from Saint Louis and heart of America sports attraction and championship wrestling from Florida and the WF Wf I mean he's collecting them all here and I think that's what makes this title change that happened on September twenty fifth so curious to me because it comes on a nowhere and it's it's on a house show and it's not in sort of a hotbed of mid Atlantic Detroit and I know this has got to be a coincidence is but we're just a few months removed from the biggest wrestlemainia ever wrestlemainia three at the Pontiac Silverdome and that's I don't know thirty minutes from uh-huh where this title change is going to happen why so much major wrestling history happening in and around the Detroit area here in nineteen ninety seven. I think he had the right answer at the top of your statement coincidence I have. I don't believe there's any first of all Detroit for years and years with the original Ashiq territory and other emotions ran in and around Detroit was a hub they did a lot of business over the years had second first second third generation wrestling fans that were placed all over the community from years gone by. That's always a good start. That's why most of these also territory hubs have multiple generation wrestling fans in them because the office was they saw the people out about they had a regular shows. They're all the shows in the territory. Were there type thing I think the house show this one on one concept about the house show title change that promoters have used over the years that is if we put everything on television it lessens the need or the emergency the immediacy to go see a live event. That's not that's not televised so I had some the play in it and quite frankly. I don't think it was it was a bad idea. I think it got people talking about the house. Shows anything can happen. You know go to your ears showing up whatever but I think I I think that they're also would have on television so it'd be newer the bottom line here Conrad's this the company did did not have a main event for the NWEA title ten million for Stargate Star. Que did not have the match basically opponent for Rick Who's rick going to work with and I think that's one of the more misplace back in that era Ross who is rich should mention that stark eighty six even though the main event is is rick flair Nikita coal off. I think most people remember it for the Sky Walkers match but flair and the key to we're on top stockade any six when you go back to stark eighty five. It's flare industy. You can probably guess that stark at eighty four also flare industy in that time Joe Frazier is your referee but stark eighty three. He is a flair for the gold and really sort of the coming out party for rick he would win the world title for the second time in a cage match with Harley race so rick flair and your main event of star cade is akin to Hulk Hogan in the main of Wrestlemainia. It's just a matter who's it going to be across from an eighty seven feels like well. We can't go back to dusty. We've done that twice and it just feels like with this influx talent they would have come up with something else but they what they came up with was one if we had flare chasing like we did in eighty three and we put the belt on Ronnie Garvin which in hindsight maybe curious decision yeah obviously curious as well 'cause again Ronnie was it's not a regular fixture in the main events. That's certainly not to say that Ronnie Garvin did not have the skill set the work ethic the mental and physical toughness to be a main of inner with anybody in any territory which I think is one of the more unrest in history wrestling he was always reliable number. One asset is reliable physically millions. I said he didn't set home because because he's got a hangnail or a pulled muscle or something he was a Gamer but Ronnie didn't have any momentum and that's what we see today on television a lot promoters and bookers have got that have the balls to get somebody on a roll without having to have the the all the internal pieces that are moving agree with that move too many cooks in the kitchen can spoil the stew and I think we had a lot of cooks in the kitchen back then giving dusty feedback a brother. Hey this you know so I'm with you Conrad. This could have been a lot lot better a if we'd ask somebody ready. The bottom line is the roster had not been managed in that time in a more objective way headman this would not have have been even a remote matter because what booker if he's left alone and not having all this input what booker would not have opponent for Rick flair stark eight. I can't think of any that I can't think of any by the heavy rains already success that would have been your first priority and for whatever reason season you know you know he didn't want to be staying wasn't ready right by not enclose he he he didn't Wanna a eight want to beat the Keita again he didn't WanNa be Berry and that's always been curious to me. Maybe Berry I think this is the the theory that most people most wrestling fans wonder why wasn't it Berry and and I think you could argue well. It shouldn't be Lugar because he's the US champ and they want a big match for for dusty which I get but Barry Windham like he could have slid in there but so does his opponent and I wanted to get your take on this because I'm kind of surprised that this wasn't considered or maybe it was but dr death comes in as the U. W. F. heavyweight champion and since we have just purchased them and they're the big you know arrival company yeah now we're all under one roof and we can create our own little wrestling war. Why wouldn't we have had rick flair the champion Wrestle Dr Beth you? WF champion in and combined the titles and the main of stockade no good reason to not do it and to make it even better out of out ahead DR death affiliate with Jim Coronet cornyist bodyguard it could be the third guy to six man tag. He could be a lot of things but cornet would be in his corner corner and the vignettes and the preparation you know Dr Death God bless his soul. He beat everything that's path the cancer dagoes dagoes by that big bastard. I loved him then. I love him now. So my answer is not going to be unbiased but if you got doc ready with a cornet eh talk for him we're just introduced a sound bite here and there and was produced by cornet you could add him read effing hot by a a stark aid it would have been a tremendous challenge for the fiscal challenge that flair had ever had he was younger anger bigger stronger faster four-time legit all-american amateur wrestling. Everything was there but the one thing that was there in place that killing L. ING he was A. WF Guy for whatever reason I it's it's no different than dusty going to work for events. We talk about the Polka dots these guys are there with their egos and I'll get you. I'll get you then. I'll get you now to carry tighter the red rooster all these and there and look. It's not just this. This happens to all kinds of all the territories at some point these illustrations but I think dock was as they say today Conrad which I despise but I'll use it. He was on the wrong side of the aisle. That's just amazing to me is and you can hear you know that you had a lot of passion and for the decision did or the idea. Was it ever presented as best you know or was it just quickly dismissed well. Let's talk about doc he he he actually liked dock a lot but you know it was just a matter I think there I think there are other forces involved in this damn thing then that I didn't want to lose their spot in at the dinner table and when you get a guy like him that was a gifted natural athlete that you know he just looked. He looked at everything. You'd WANNA wrestler six to three hundred pounds faster flexible. Why are you not just saying what you thank here was? It is a dusty who was maybe hesitant to put them in. The spotty for a lucky would've taken spot is one of the top performers or somebody else I think I don't think it was per se I think it was dusty having to appease everybody in multiple other people who were worried about getting lose their spot spot. Let me tell you something that does pop that territory the Crockett territories we all know yeah and they had amazing. He was the best big match or big event promoter I've ever worked with this amazing vision and feel for the game but man he had he had a lot of talents that he had nurtured and it had brought in this scenario a Makita for example not knocking Akita whatsoever this thing this use them as an example Zampa he was an unknown he was just a guy who happened to be from Minnesota with big traps and great muscles great body and facial expressions freshness you look shifts great but these guys got hot Conrad and started making a lot of money and as wrestlers do S. athletes do as the General Society does sometimes when you start or the the cash is rolling in we foresee that it's Never GonNa end you and I both know people like that several of them and a lot of ballplayers they think it's never going to end and these guys could not let it in because they were either living in the biggest house their live. They're driving two or three cars paying for boob jobs and jewelry rolexes. They could not afford to have a cut in their income and a new kid on the block might be a difference maker that can be five maker could be that guy. I just don't they doc was ever. I don't think I think he was so much pressure to not put the nope with those guys over us. It was it should never been those guys in us. That should have been she crossed. I'm going to step in here. I'll learn saw this issue right now. We're all together or one team and pull the same thing. It's not us and them. Tom Get that shit out of your head but it never happened and to some degree what you mentioned earlier good point. It never happened with the other. WCW Gas coming into wwe back in the day. Let me ask. Do you think you know since we're just speak freely here. Do you think that maybe Flare Campaign for Ronnie because he felt like like put the belt on Ronnie but he's not a real threat to be in my spot so if I'm GONNA have to lose it and chase. I wanted to be with that guy because I now he's not really a threat. I think that Rick was probably realized and I'm sure it was frustrating that they didn't have somebody ready for that had Guinea by ready for him. That's where your idea about. Dr Death or somebody else could have been Scott Steiner for example. Let's say just spitballing here. There are other there are the new guys that were working for cowboy that could come in and a got hot with the right booking that didn't happen as we talked about docker steiner whomever rick knew this he knew that his matches with Ronnie Garvin would be as physically intense as fast likely would have seen in years on television which counteracted what wwe you was doing at at that time on top and then they're not air they were never known as a physical brand wrestling by lied larger tough guys. Don't get me wrong. I'm not bitch Nigga guys that was not the presentation that's not how they were produced and he knew that that matches be talked about for a long time. We're we're talking about here today. In two thousand nineteen so any new the match would be good 'cause running a hell of a hand so at running a lottery respect and more in the in the in the business running guards the first guy I've been cowboy that I met that flu zone plane in Beca today smart guy say this money invested well you know he's mature beyond his age and he survived the Terry Garvin a partnership and Terry was a wild man and then of course he's Jimmy Gardens Stepfather so he he was smart art and he and he took advantage of the opportunity and flare knew that Ryan give everything he had that have held a match and it would be a great win for Rick at here's a bit stark aid. Let's talk a little bit about what we're doing as we head in this as we mentioned rick and Ronnie have had some history heading into this they've had a lot of matches and eighty seven but I think most fans remember about a Garvin and Rick in eighty seven is the feud that had with Ronnie or I'm sorry Jimmy and storyline valet precious and of course US Jimmy's real life wife and it's going to set up a great American Bash Cage match and the result is really getting a date with precious and of course she's supposed to meet her at a hotel and now wouldn't you know it just happens to be a camera crew there inside the hotel room and it's a hilarious piece of footage. Maybe a little silly but the result is precious winds up being Ronnie Garvin in drag and there's a big bump into a pool and so silly shenanigans ends but this is a bit of a departure from the way the NWEA had been doing things. What did you think of this build in the back story of how this all got intertwined and how Ronnie was the cross dressed precious well it was it was entertaining by and large the Garvan common denominator connection was booking so basically dusty us Jimmy Garvin and his lovely wife precious as haunts in the storytelling and of course Gar another one of the more underrated guys ever in the business? I never signed do anything. He wasn't good at commentary tag wrestling single wrestling wrestling they face. He'll tell me somewhere he was he wasn't good. I I love to see it and of course wife Patty just she's still one human being and it's funny how she got she got out of wrestling. She was one of the few that said I'm not going back and she never has but that's another story of the time I thought it was good booking by dusty storytelling the Garvan company down moving forward and then the then the sore because everybody was sure that flare is going to be off the wall in a room with a precious in this hotel room for God's sakes and then running to be addressed drag was I had I had not seen that angle a long time. I don't know if I've ever seen anything before played that well as the drag thing but anyway it was good I liked it. I like this. I like the little enter a little entertainment because I knew even on the way to the to the party. The entertainment was going to be fine on the way to the big dance essay but boy we got to the dance that music is going to be bad ass and it was we should mention that this has all all sort of the the back story to explain why they're having these matches on the house show loops and the match itself but when we're talking about September twenty fifth nineteen ninety-seven goes thirty three in minutes and seventeen seconds. It's a typical brutal hard hitting match. The finish is gonNA see both guys standing on the top ropes flares trying to climb onto the cage. Garvan urban is GonNa Bang Player's head to the polls holding the cage up a few times and then flair would take two steps and of course do is face I bump straddling himself on the top rope and then falling onto the ring and when he gets back up Garvan leaps off the top rope sunset flip to gain the pin fall and interview world title and his Ronnie celebrating a lot out of the baby face wrestlers empty dressing room and come in to celebrate not something we see that often I would think of the match. What did you think of a Finnish and what was the reaction in real life from Ronnie being the guy with the big bill well rounding never overwhelmed by being being the champion Ronnie was more motivated by monetary thinks then the accolade of being the former? NWEA are the chance whatever so to him it was business as usual only a little better because it should be leading to a nicer Asher trip to the pay window. The matches a was a sovereign Oscar. I mean if there ever was matched a series between anybody any two guys that was slobber knocker Ronnie Garvin and Ric flair was the epitome of that analogy just fiscal as hell and quite I frankly even though the finish sounds mundane today's world and some younger fan what he did to four fifty slash or you didn't do it Topa L. C. L. Suicidal I think no he did a sunset flip off the top rope and in that era that was a high risk move that paid off. I never saw that finish coming. I thought it was going to beat him that he would. He uses finish the right hand so to speak and knock him out but so shock surprise real players have been handling all this he was he was right along with the ride he contributed thanks to the match and to the finish and that there's one I think that's evil dusty. flair had a great rivalry in now the ring that I believe that they always have the respect of being great performers great entering talents and that always allow them to see an issue objectively deeply and try to come up with some sort of solution this respect of each other the the baby faces celebrating with him the you remember this title win going to Ronnie giving any heartburn any of the guys no no it was again there. There are all the guys that could have been an pitcher. We talked about Windham. We've talked about you know whomever surveys staying too early for staying win on seem to be the obvious guy that could have been there but does he didn't really want does he had a special place of Barry Very and blackjack that whole Texas connection the West West Texas. He took good care Berry but I large but very very losing to ric flair would not have been a career killer any stretch imagination again. You wonder why Desi made that particular decision because it for bury. It never really played out we didn't well. I'm glad we didn't do that then because he went on and had this wonderful long run he didn't have a wonderful long homerun so I don't know what that all the dialogue behind the scenes advil suspect that does she had made a commitment to berry and he's not going to be clear so I'm going to be Berry and he's not going to do it certainly not going to the stargate. If I was GONNA lose buried GONNA lose Damn Shulin losing the main event of Stargate and I will tell tell the tear the house down in the process but that's how that worked but the boys are always lived there living in their own world again unless you talked about earlier they're trying to protect the rolex in her boob jobs and our big cars and big houses Melissa. They're not worried about WHO's going to go over in a in a work too dramatic fight well. It's interesting that you say that about Ronnie Garvin because he's been quoted as saying it was a nice big paycheck. That was my bottom line. Everything everything else did not excite me and I'll tell that being honest and yes. I did accomplish something in our. I can't say I didn't do it but my main goal was to get to the top. The whole thing was the object of money. How much money do I make year? How much money do I put towards retirement and I was planning out everything in my life and a lot of people blue that I didn't go to the bars? Drinking wasn't a part of your and have all the women in the world like a ric flair in Rod Limos. Toll People you saw me in a limo was because I was driving having it. I'll be upfront a little guy wearing little hat. Both feet are on the ground and I never dreamed it and the only dreams I had to be successful. I'm a regular guy pants dance on one leg at a time. I don't want to thank the fans without them. We wouldn't have anything and once I had the title. I didn't really care to be the world's champion was no life for a guy you look at a guy like Jack Brisco for example. I think he quit and just didn't plane want it. I remember him telling me that he was going and was never home and was in Japan one day in California the next but I guess flare love that life I would imagine he's been the champion many times and I think a lot of guys probably didn't want it and that's why he just had it so much is an interesting. Take on being the champion. That Ronnie says it's really no way to live. I don't know that we've heard that a lot. What do you think it has take their no a Lotta guys who said that off the record to me over the years Harley? It's hard it's hard. It was a lot like h Carl He. It was a road warrior man and not Hawker Animal. He was he was he he was a beast on a travelling. He worked everywhere and rarely had a day off career. They're here. They're in yawn or hurt all good stuff. It's just not for everybody because if you have a stable marriage or or a significant other that you have a stability with then being on the road that amount of time or your book more than anybody else in the world and more locations than anybody else in the world in a visit has no offseason one can easily see how damaging that can be to a family unit right and I think a lot of guys had those issue Ronnie was a family man he was interesting think for one reason he say rich everybody else's at basically but he's the C. says it for the money and when some lost all about the money bullshit. It's all about the money pal. Go Tell yourself walking. It's all about the money and Ronnie was just that kind of guy so but the championship was it's a lonely life. You're not traveled with your buddies. You don't just in a car and go into town and have the six pack of Beer your spouse or smoking a joint or something you're in another airplane the plane during a trained or somewhere you're different places all the time and you travel solo. You had to handle your own bags at your own travel arrangements hotel. We'll rental cars everything which I found to be ridiculous but nonetheless it could become a pain in the ass and Conrad if you weren't making the massive money that you envision that you would make as being this world champion and the price you're paying to be away from home. Then this suddenly suddenly this gig Ain't much fun. I can do better in a territory working on top and being home most nights and that's what a lot of them did well and Jerry. When you're home most nights these days is because you're rock and blue and you can do it right now? 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Let's talk about what Rick says about this whole situation with the title change the the fans liked it when he was pursuing me for the title and when he finally won they weren't as impressed and there's still think he was perceived as a huge star. Let me put it this way. When I wrestled Garvan we were part of the package wrestle dusty? We were the main event. This was another short term. Title Rain and the plans were made for me to win the belt back at the championship match and stark eighty seven and every year star catered held in Greensboro but this time Crockett decided to move the event to Chicago cargo. He was trying to make a statement that we're not just a southern company and hindsight it was a terrible move absolute insanity but Jimmy didn't WanNa hear about it. Greensboro is never going to be Chicago a don't tell that to the people in Greensboro these were loyal fans and we insulted them and as a result. They never forgave Davis Amen. I did not that decision bad decision. Jimmy put shot Greensboro was the Jim. I'm cross promotions. New York City it was a capital of mid Atlantic wrestling a lot of great markets in that area that region no no doubt but nothing compared to Greensburg because they got all the big big stuff they got flair and race at eighty three in stark aid was visit Greensboro event bad mistake and that's trying too hard to emulate and knowing that you're playing a move move here. You'RE GONNA advertise this move that you're going to have the show is going to be you know not in Greensboro and it gives me man all the time in the world to to come up with a counterplan a little defense for your offense and he did and McMahon out strategized Crockett and it crippled that who pay per view that we did there rick assaulting about they're not Greensboro Detroit our other Chicago show discovery show talking talking about sorry but it just didn't make any sense Conradi. You don't turn your back on your loyal audience you and are never we have. We're building building our audience here. We're GONNA always give Bishop Pasta can shit in. We're going to work hard for you and we're going to stay true to our roots so so I'm a big fan of that tradition in wrestling in Greensburg was a part of an amazing pro wrestling tradition that got forsaken and in basically for I can say greed or we can say you know motivation whatever I don't know I remember stay rick was right about that deal. No doubt Greensboro got screwed and they never said and nobody said we're sorry and then they never they never forget it to talk about how the never forgave it how about class champions where flair would make staying in March of eighty-eight. Excuse me they only draw six thousand fans fans without horrible and a month later I if the Third Crockett Cup only sixty two hundred fans this is usually a town that has a multiple of that but I think they're so disappointed with the stockade being Chicago than ever really recover no they felt insulted and and unappreciated the last thing you ever want your consumers folks for your business or any kind of business is for your consumers to feel unappreciated unappreciated 'cause they will very rapidly seek another place where they can find appreciation and we grew craft can tell you going into Greensboro borough for the first time for me was a clash won. The show that Tony and I worked where flair and sting forty five minutes why that could not have been formatted formatted differently and been an hour. I don't know say that's another probably a little political talk. Some guys needed more time which always tatum my ask a stupid. We have thirty minutes so you're not a good at work to tell your story in twenty. I didn't know that why are you the main event. Tell me again I forgot got. You can't go twenty minutes do thirty. I say bullshit allowing. How about that but it's so anyway we got there I think in this Michael Jordan Played Basketball in the ACC fine on all these great nasal hoop who starts right eighteen thousand seats twenty thousand seats? It's got six thousand on. It looked like you could shoot a gun often hurting body this what's crazy is a year prior march of eighty seven you guys would run that show. I guess that maybe it was before you were there but there's fifteen thousand fans there so the show that we all remember so much Marta. Da Clash the champions six thousand fans so we go from fifteen to six in just one calendar year in a lot of people treated to this on his relationship with Rick Ronnie Ronnie Garvin would say I've never seen him since nineteen eighty seven. I don't like being in that kind of world. It's bullshit but to each his own. It's his life and you live at the way you want to you. Don't respect it because to me. You're a goof when you blow your money away and you wind up down the road broke and if you look in sports and entertainment and you see folks had everything last part of their life life is just misery Wa- go through that at the end of your life and go through that financially I've heard all kinds of stories and I don't know that they're true but I wish him the best and he's never never done anything to me but I respect people that are down Earth people that accomplished many things about having to brag about all their feats in the world. How many women they slept with how many drinks that it can happen? One nine driving the Mercedes taking limos I got in the ring with him and it never cited a table and had a meal with him. I never met him at a bar. Had A long conversation traveled with with him. I never did any of that boy Ron Garvin coming in hot in here. What do you make of this? That's just Ronnie I mean that's not a good answer for you but Ronnie just Ronnie had no filter but he was a classy guy and he also had no fear. You've got to remember the physicality you see in that ring. Running Arben Arben is simply a manifestation natural personality. He was a bad ass so he'd be back up what he said but he's also respectful bill so I had when I read these comments I was a little shock because I had I didn't remember them but it sounds like him so he he didn't get personal rick. Just said you know this is not the way I choose to live my life so that was kind of it was just a he was a man's man. Hey there was more bitching and moaning in Jim Crockett promotions office with a talent and so forth that all be Cillari parts that we were leaving are they were leaving. I was GONNA taste. We were leaving Greece for for Chicago and they said the same thing. We're screwing up our this is our moneymaker X. Number Times a ear. WE'RE GONNA make one market and there was more bitching and moaning about leaving Greensboro about who's going to be the next champion because that Ester can change or the or the using the most oppressive weapon in all of wrestling the eraser. It's easy fix leaving Greece for the market had been cultivated for decades aides in decades and taking a great big up for you left was not the thing to do. Let me ask you about Ronnie Garvin. Do you think and and I'm not trying to be a flare apologist here. Everybody knows you know my relationship. But do you think that maybe Garvan has animosity to rick that you know he got up to this main event level but very quickly he's not figured in on top moving forward to the point that August of the next year I think August twelfth he's out of there. He's out of Jim. I'm Clark completely in less than a year after this would wind up in the WWF and we know that you know he had what he had their. I guess their nineteen ninety and bounce around a little bit with smokey mountain and things like that but realistically when this doesn't go the way he thinks my or most people wouldn't on the outside looking in by God you're going into the big show the years the world champion in less than a year. He's out of there. You think there's any sort of ill will from from Garvan the torch flair that maybe it didn't work out to be more for him. I would doubt it. I don't think so it could be obviously could be that. I would not be my sense of Ronnie Garvin. He just didn't seem like he he wanted to engage or attach himself to the the over the ever growing ever developing politics of pro wrestling and having issue in that respect over creativity very creative rather would be would it surprise me a is he was going to be angry at anybody he might be angry. Jimmy the Jim Crockett or dusty because they're the ones who make those decisions flair was falling flares getting produced but here's the thing about that. Let's say you're right Conrad with your session and you could be the the mashes that Garvin and flair had did not show me any indication nation whatsoever that either guy was giving us anything but one hundred percent. Oh yeah no sandbagging. I'm not insinuating that I'm talking about behind the things behind the scenes you mentioned a minute ago the most powerful weapon and wrestling's the eraser and it just feels like especially you know. Maybe we should take another step back. We've talked about what's happening happening on this side of the aisle as you say with the U. W. F. The end up gay but once the reveals we're going to hold this super show now that we've got the U. W. F. or under our employ and we're GONNA call it stark aid. We're GONNA put it on pay per view now Sarkhej it'd been awhile for awhile but traditional pay per view had really been Vince McMahon's man's playground thus far and they're going to run the big show here and Vincent Man can't stand that and wants to count program and he counter programs with survivor series the very very first one he creates survivor series to compete with stockade any seven so now all of a sudden at the same time heads up cable companies ace and fans at home have to decide what are we going to do here and it does feel like politically a bad spot to be in. If I was was a wrestler and I was reading the tea leaves we know that flare is a made man for lack of a better word the interview a and if the show does poorly nobody's GonNa point a flare uh-huh. It's his fault maybe Garvan when he takes the spot in the show doesn't do gangbusters business. Maybe because of the counter programming Robin Smith man he's GonNa wind up being the fall guy. Do you think that maybe there were other wrestlers who who saw that and maybe Garvin didn't or rem overthinking overthinking no. I think it's possible there Conrad on. I don't think you were thinking it because that's just the nature of the paranoid bass pro wrestling. It's the finger-pointing endless never ending and I'm sure Ronnie you know the whispering innuendo somebody they say so I was talking about you know you're you're the reason that we need to get paid for by right now the reasons that didn't do well for stark aid. It wasn't a one man show it was it was but there are a lot of other good stuff on that show that we haven't even talked about that was a card and but the McMahon and the WWF the time they're they're they're they're the ones that kill star Kayden and that event because the least these pay per view cable systems were had to make a choice by and large and big man had the biggest muscles he had the biggest record come off wrestlemainia three in the Pontiac Silverdome. Nobody was going to cross so all of a sudden. The pay per view raucous favor of us was available so few markets the some biscuit ahead a one hundred percent by rate not made any money. I think I heard one time that after that that Crockett's mid one hundred grand on that thing into paying her body that's that's a that's. That's the sanity that's crazy so that whole that whole Greensburg decision was huge because they never got their nerve Greensboro back and Conrad quite frankly elite when Greensboro lesson to popularity. Vs agrees for Lesson all the sudden the rest of the towns in the territory started noticing and that was bad thing. Let's talk about what Ronnie was doing. After this match well I mean if they had a math like that today it'd probably be looking for some the MD trusted leader in the industry and they're committed to providing you with the best natural support to help you feel your best now. This is something I can't stress enough enough because I do get a lot of tweets about this all of their products are. THC Free so you never have to worry about any associated high. 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CBD MD MD DOT COM and that Promo Code is Grill of course Romney didn't have any CBD MD but he's on the road October tenth he's go to a with Tully blanchard on the eleventh he's doing double shots in Cleveland and Cincinnati and he's GonNa beat Rick and both of those is going to have a two out of three falls alls maths that he is victorious in Kansas City on the sixteenth and on its way there he's going to wrestle some other challengers GaAs lock Allen Martin exactly the big Big Day Bingo part of your issues. How was Ronnie Book going into the start to the December not very good album Martin Martin I look I'm not being disrespectful Alamar? They like Allah. Martin is a household name and Ronnie should getting wins over guys that but for some reason why the there was probably much paranoia about their spots and their positioning and how much time they got as any territory I was ever involved in guys again had had had blown all their expectations out of the water that could move the money they were making and so some of the stars that would have drawn big houses therefore everybody would have made money off that stop couldn't figure out ways to lose news without hurting them and I find that one of the bigger cop outs all wrestling folks you can say whatever you want and your your opinions very good good does mind but if you're not talented enough in a performance art to to orchestrate and produce a match where you don't win but you don't you don't get you're not you're not humiliated are are just devalue to to do nothing. You can't do that then you really in a wrong us us. I just believe that can be done. It should be done and I'll that car and we talked about this car here. We're talking about God. There's I think there's a draw own. It was good I liked that but the queues and count outs and things could have been stores could have been further much better if they weren't left open ended or there's always thought that we have there. Hey Ru than we thought out okay so we don't have a Finnish now so I I don't like that I don't think it's her business thing the business over the years on this era of pro wrestling and the JC fee company you saw always multiple will count outs or disqualifications on every card and because we've got to protect this guy I don't know who you're protecting. You're not protecting the business and that's the main thing yeah and they're going to do their best on TV to try to tell the story we see lots of promos from Rick He's giving credit to Ronnie for for beating him but he's vowing to win it back at star Kayden we say some promos and interviews from Ronnie but what else he much in ring action on TV or any sort of physicality with Rick and then we start to March stark as we do a stark AAC control center on October Seventeenth Hey control center that sounds familiar. Ronnie Garvin is going to be see there as they're announcing the rematch flare Garvan it started any seven and this is also the announcement of the infamous no title defences after October seventeenth eighteenth stipulation. This is sort of fascinating to me that he's not defend the mill between October seventeenth and the big show so what's what's the logic rationale here well again finding people that can that they can beat is an issue shoe protecting a majority of the start back major stars roster that felt like they couldn't lose without hurting him irreparably if he's not I don't have much book between those times but you know you the margin for error in getting someone injured stipulation was very unique. You know if I'm telling the story I was talking about the fact that garbage it's going to be. He's not gonNA defending the title he's going to be able to heal. He's going to be able to be one hundred percent. He'll be berries ever been scheduled adjusted. He got he got a big break here. We're not having to defend the title before he meets Stark Eight. There's a lot of ways to skin the cat in that regard to Tele bobble store this believable but I think that's kind of a nutshell. Who's it going to beat and they wanted with all the focus on stark again going back to we started this conversation? The W the Endo Gay did not have a viable opponent for Rick Flair as hard as that is to comprehend so now having the Switzer title surprisingly surprisingly Aldo where things you mentioned was their way of creating talking to buzz and now Flare Plaza baby face and he's chasing not a bad formula which just so sad that Ronnie Garvin was not put into position to be hot quits tells me that the decision to make Ronnie Garvin the champion was a decision made a a late in the game. It was a long term plan for Ronnie Garvin to ever be the end of a champion but obviously or if it had been he'd been he'd been ready for he was ready for it. Let me ask do you think by this. Point are Tober seventy. You know so we're less in a month after the title Switz- do you think that perhaps dusty had buyer's remorse could have could have but but the buyer's remorse would have been the solution for the he'll that is make sure you stay ahead of the curve and make sure you've got more than one person in the hunt for the title. Ah should be if you're if you're the US champion like lex Luger was going into stark eight the US championship is nice is a great honour one hundred so the hall of papers have held that title many of them Amerifactors but the bottom line for wrestling in that era or era in that company company wants to be the world champion. It should be that way for everybody unless you're two champions which I still think it's insanity but the the I believe that uh kind of what I'm thinking Conrad. I don't think that I think it was a knee jerk. Decision is a risk we got. Nobody better right now. I don't WanNa be Barry. I WANNA be a stage not ready yet by Blah and then I don't Wanna I don't WanNa beat Nikita again he'd beaten last year last year. Get get that but you would say minute to yours row. Lets you were destined flair because they have the magic Ali and frazier stuff so I don't know man I think that it was was a shirt. Buyer's remorse came across the dreams of mind but he never did really afraid that way he was not good at embracing negatives and smartly Conrad maybe in the big picture and the craziest business that might have been a blessing in the skies for 'cause he didn't carry that the negative bullshit with him from day to day he he had to be the most creative imaginative person in the company and to be that person you cannot be working in a negative hayes and that's what would have happened if he'd have brought that with. It just seems weird to me that there's there's no classic Horton Horsemen beatdown down in a parking lot. It's just I don't know the build feels a little different here but everything about the show feels a little different. Davy Crockett is on record talking about the decision to move from Greensboro into Chicago and he says an I really disagree with my brother about the move stockade was Greensboro. Jimmy may have won a national presence but guess what we weren't in the main arena we were in the college arena the US billion. Let's try to the people in Chicago. We seem second ah just based on that I was in charge of production and our cost tripled nothing against unions but the south is a right to work region where you don't have to wait for approval from Union boss plus. You've got now the cost of flying all those people up there. It just didn't work this was going to be our first pay per view and Jimmy was banking the whole company on it but Vince McMahon decided to create survivor series to run on the same day at first. Jimmy didn't think it would be a problem we'd have stark eight in the afternoon and one fan both pay per views back the back. They'd see that we we had the better product then Vince told the cable companies. If they wanted survivor series they run any of the pay per view sixty days before twenty one days after the Royal Wrestling Wrestling Federation was a proven commodity and very few cable companies wanted to take the risk of the original two hundred that we're interested in stockade only five carried it after expenses. We only took eighty thousand dollars so it's an unbelievable situation here. What a coup? The Vincent Man pulled off the result is stark eighty seven eight thousand fans Chicago which is a fraction of what it would have been in Greensboro and had been greensborough. It has a bar rate of three point three three on the UNDERCARD upshur will examine another time but it starts with Eddie Gilbert Rick Steiner and Larry's obese go go into a Bisco easy for me to cycle into a draw stink Michael Hayes Jimmy Garvin then Steve Williams Dr Death would be very welcome to retain the U. W. F. The rock and roll express would beat the midnight express on the scaffold appaled maths. They're trying to breath more life in Skywalker Gimmick Akita coal off. WHO's the industry ATV champion beat Terry Taylor who's the WF TV champion to unify the two WHO TV titles which again I think would have been a great idea for the world titles and the main event Anderson and Blanchard would beat the road warriors by the Hugh so they retained their tag titles? Yeah I mean it's the Roadway Chicago I duNno road where should win. There is Bingo. Hello and don't leave it open ended. Nobody nobody moved down the road any farther. I'd love here on the new aren't Anderson podcast. You don't talk about that sometime. The fact that the best tag team in the world without a doubt for a long long time if they weren't midnight express were as far as the hillside was concerned and and they had to figure out creative ways to get out of their their belts so forth titles and not still not beat the road warriors it was an unintended situation situation that will work one time around but then when it's done repeatedly there's problems and there was this that's what happened that we devalued that attraction in both arn and Tully and the the road warriors in my view with that sort of finish. That's something else your co main event dusty Rhodes would be lex Luger in a cage to win the US title and I mean I guess you know we're talking about structuring this card and the way the business is the importance of of of feeling professional Polish and prepared when accounts right now the most important time is now for small business owners especially people who produced their own podcasts being plugged in and prepared when an opportunity comes up as crucial these moments happen all the time and they're happening right now. Having a business card the shows professional rational you are in your pocket rated. Handout is the first step making something happen. This is a big deal. We're going to help you own the now with free shipping on any any business card and inequality you choose whatever style finished shape paper wherever you live and you get free shipping and because you can pick the colors fos designs and images just it means you can create something as unique and compelling as your business. If you're ready to get started on Your Business Card it's easy plug your information and logo in hundreds of fresh designs John's tailored to your type of company or Upload Your own original layout. You'll pick everything paper style. The stock the quantity everything that's right for you and you can upgrade great to a unique touch like rounded corners when you order and he receive your cards with free economy shipping and all we're talking about here of course is vistaprint you you can feel good knowing that vistaprint. He's only carefully selected inks that are also going to be on responsibly sourced paper stocks. Your satisfaction faction is one hundred percent guaranteed or your money back. They'll make it right now. I should give a full disclosure here obvious vistaprint since two thousand six. This is somebody that I have been doing business with long before they were doing business with me and vistaprint wants you to be able to own the now in any situation which is why our listeners will get free shipping on all business cards any sow any quantity is go to vistaprint dot com and put this Promo Code in Jr here. Get Free Shipping on all business discards any style any quantity limited time offer. It's very very affordable which is why I started using it when it first started business on the now and vistaprint dot com that Promo Code is Jr and you support our show and you support our sponsors so wanNA support vistaprint's Jr no. You've done a little business with print over the years there. It's hard to be yeah they are and they they're pros is. They're pros the I might. WWe Business Cards Kinda got out dated and so I don't use anymore and I I haven't got any business cards yet from Awa so I wouldn't have been as for myself and I found my right around the right tacking part of reprinting this vistaprint so folks It's a IT'S A it's part of the personal standard operating procedures. Nowadays you meet people somewhere especially the way I do and you don't have time to engage a long conversation catch supplying complain a run for a car. Whatever the case is and somebody hey here? Can Can I get a hold of you and you give them your card and make sure it looks good. You know we've talked for this. RIQUESA cases before is part of the Presentation Ama slick good paper contemporary looking business card simpler. The better are is GonNa get you down the road little farther and vistaprint com the sitate all that with us if you get it for free shipping and how about this. It's very portable I I can't stress that enough as a new business owner. Keeping my expenses in line was very important vistaprint help make it happen. If you aspire to land big man you gotta look part and having a great business cards checkout vistaprint use our Promo Code. Jr and let's talk about Dr Main event started at seven and I'm GonNa get to Meltzer's right up here. Rick flair regained the title painting Ronnie Garvin and Seventeen minutes twenty five seconds of the second cage match Garvin was booed badly and from when I was told flair was cheered by about seventy percent of the fans live there were fans. Even chanting Garvin Sucks can tell Ronnie wasn't too happy about all this but it just shows how badly Crockett industy have had their fingers on the pulse of the Public Garvin did lots of scratching and they did all the hard shops but this was still a disappointing match in fact act I would say it's the worst flair matchup seen sixteen months. The match was almost exactly the same but worse than Choi title-match which everyone saw. I can't understand why the biggest show of the year these guys can't vary the repertoire Beth last three minutes were spectacular with all the near falls. They had a ref bump but the REF recover cover quickly. Let's say flair from getting pinned with the knockout punch. A Finnish saw garbage go for the best brass flare dropped him backwards so gardens head hit the poll on the cage of Flair pinned him give them credit for doing a clean pin two and a half stars. This is of course going to be Rick's fifth world title win but but Meltzer didn't love it very critical that feels like a rinse lather repeat from Detroit similarities with its cage match again and the even the structure on this this particular show it's the second cage match of the show which in and of itself takes a little bit of the specialness off of it. Doesn't it absolutely absolutely does well I. I like the match better than Dave me. Be Honest with you I did and here Dave with his is is the criticisms of flare Kinda unusual so he was very convinced. He was right on this in his opinion and he and his opinion so I I enjoyed it. I find it interesting. How wrestling kind of keeps feeding itself we have star cade? They have two hundred cable company so one of carry star cade in the afternoon and then cover cover these survivor series at night McMahon actor men does this new and then he does one more move up his sleeve that intimidating the cable companies. If you carry it you're not gonNA have our business and so again coming off that big moneymaker at Wrestlemania three the cable company saw a rebirth in in this new business call pay per view you see this man was king pay per view so they didn't want to piss him off and now this is using basically the same game plan to try to block the growth and the other blocks nice faucet start for a w next Wednesday night October second because they moved from their network to to USA the show and it won't be the last counter move to to do. I guess you'd say restrict Dr Grothe Conrad but I don't know I history continues to repeat itself best one wars doing this. So why would we think he's going to do anything something else that he would. He shouldn't do anything else he should be very aggressive and make it as hard as he can for anybody to gain any part of a market share in his world. I get that so that's why this whole thing is going to be very interesting on Wednesday nights. I'm not big on the war term. It's fashionable. I get it Monday night wars. I got it. I was there about the t shirt hold on yards but his his tricks are not done and he always he's had the other ace up his sleeves so he moves to go head to head. Crockett moves a starting time McMahon Kit does want move starting time from the night to the afternoon but he puts the pressure pressure on the cable companies that you're gonNA play ball with Crockett and go play ball with us your call. It's crazy to think that you know this is all going on behind the scenes means but it sort of inside the company everybody's sort of wondering what about Ronnie Garvin and there is such a I don't know timing is everything thing. I've learned that a lot in business and this this is one of those moments especially where you've got a few bad decisions here in a row. Maybe it's been argued that it was a bad decision to buy watts. It's been that it was a bad decision to move from Greensboro to Chicago. It's been argued. It was a bad decision to try to go head to head on pay per view and obviously they they didn't know that but they didn't just sort of stay in their lane. They wanted to pursue this new endeavor which is very costly and just everywhere you look it feels like there's something thing else to criticize or critique or wonder and it's a perfect storm of bad decisions and maybe none bigger than than Ron Garvin where the fans just weren't ready for him but perhaps some of that blame doesn't belong on Ronnie belongs on the way he was presented on TV Rick would say of the Matt's here that Meltzer was critical but I like you enjoyed because it was hard hitting from the beginning a lot of the fans were booing Ronnie. I remember exchanging chops with him and hearing garbage socks Garvin socks you see garbage popular in places like Greensboro but Maha I living persona ric flair was ready made for a city locked Chicago and Ronnie came across his to southern and I know that dusty Rhodes depicted himself that same way but dusty. I think you get away with it because he was such a much better interview any had more care or more charismatic personality. I wouldn't characterize this as a great match but I definitely enjoyed myself Ronnie and are pounded the life of each other. He beat my chest raw. I was rubbing neo four and into Muskegon for a year. It's amazing. I didn't get a staph infection action and that's not overstated. You know our our six-man tag team partner here on the show Bull Ramos Aka Dave Silva went back and watched this match for the first time in longtime and called me all excited like Holy Shit. These guys beat the shelter each other they did man. Hey the great thing for a a voyeur wrestling voyeur like I said my role I should say what do you do for a living. I'm a brushing broadcasts. Just start seeing a wrestling enjoyer to set at Ringside Conrad and although some bitches got into the corner or or they were one guy was is based like you get their shops. Both guys God Almighty there. If you're the old wrestlers used to say you got to make it look good. You got to make it look good so you you gotta work. Snub Not Steph not hurting me about he was snubbed big difference that anybody sitting at rinkside would tell you my God. I thought the stuff was fake because there's no way that what those cats are doing could be perceived as anything thing but real and that perhaps it really did have some hidden animosities in their soul as men for each other and it just manifests itself in the wrestling personas so I it was it was physically intense as anything I've seen and the sad part about it Conrad for me not talk to other guys about this match there in the media so forth is a lot of guys liked it and they liked it and they should have continued but apparently the the plan was to get Garvan as a champion from the fall to stark eight two months two months and then moving I'm on and then when they moved on you drop a card and once you get that big check from star Kate and he started rigor Mooney again for being a middle mid card guy hi then sequester culture shock which is prompted Ronnie to leave cash and creative right cash and creative folks so he went to wwe with the sad part about this deal to me was that I'm a traditionalist and I respect the history of the businesses. We've talked about here as Conrad Ronnie Garvin was a kind of guy that you would covet to be in your territory or on your roster without a doubt. The son of a bitch is going to be on time. He's going to be ready to work. He's GonNa be in shape. He's going to be clear headed. He's going to work snug. He's GonNa he's GonNa respect the business and give the fans who is working with a physical match where they either yeah well. I don't know what these other guys that Goddamn Garvan bad ass. That's he's he's he was is everybody's he has ever checked every box via great star in wrestling from by the time I got it till now he still he's he's everlasting because is at Seta Trait live with reliability that goes along with being a star. They should mention that not too terribly long after this. Maybe just a couple of weeks we would see aren't intercept team with Ric flair against the road warriors the road warriors pick up a win and that would result in January being announced that Road Warrior Hawk is going to be to get a world title shot at the next pay per view which is January anyway twenty four thousand nine hundred eighty eight the bunk house stampede and the world title will not be the main event there but we'll go on next to last but it's a it's a tag wrestler against flair which further proves we had the right champ but we didn't really have the ride opponent. the main event of course would be the steel cage bunk house to impede the dusty road could win. There is a Garvan on this show. It's Jimmy Garvin in a dark match. Ronnie Garvin is nowhere to be found on the very next pay per view and wouldn't you no it they thought they outsmarted McMahon running on January twenty four th but instead of running pay per view the cable systems at wised up and wouldn't let him do that so McMahon McMahon just created the royal rumble put it on TV for free to make sure that nobody had to pay the wrestling that night they could just come here those tricks wrote McMahon sleeve in a big way and eighty-seven were they not great strategist yeah you survivor street smarts all that good stuff got that degree from East Carolina and Linda nonetheless a marksman and he's always got got the ace up his sleeve because he's got all the assets he had all the power. He's everything he was doing. He was dealing with power and influence. It's so I'm I we knew that things are up at the clash of champions that too was a free show that was a free show on tbs clash one Greensboro ironically. We're talk about it and you guys are going to strike back there and then when we we we hit a good lick and got a great rating in an affected adversely affected the favor man was for producing that night. TV is got the limber tail and the cable companies who large chunks stock and Turner Broadcasting went to Ted in his higher ups who says you can't compete against ourselves now. Wait a minute. What did that get into effect it didn't it wasn't a stark airtime so may man had the influence he had the big muscles and reality and in fiction so we try to counter had a good show didn't mean didn't mean nothing? It was a one off so well this the mass we're talking about the man that did not mail it in here and if you're looking to mail it in let me tell you nobody. It has time to go to the post office. You're busy. I'm busy. I love this. I love the sponsor. All these people Conrad. What are you talking about? Is You love stamps dot com my man come on that's right Oh the traffic and parking and lugging all that stuff in now. It's a real hassle and that's why J. LO STAMPS DOT com. It's one of the most popular time saving tools for small businesses or just busy people like yourself. STAMPS DOT COM has eliminate trips to the post office and save you money any with this council. You can't even get at the post office. STAMPS DOT COM is going to bring all the amazing services of the United States post office right here computer for your small office the sending invoices but online seller shipping out some products or even a warehouse sending thousands of packages a day stamps dot com can handle it all with these civil use your computer to print the official. US Post it's twenty four seven for any letter and package any class of male anywhere you WanNa send and once your mail is ready just handed handed to your mail carrier dropping the mailbox that simple and with stamps dot com. I can't believe this is real. You get five cents off every first class stamp and up to forty percents off off priority mail not to mention a fraction of the cost of most of those expensive postage stamps dot com is a no brainer saving you time and money and it's no order more than seven hundred thousand small businesses already you stamps dot com including us here on grilling Jr alive. You've gotten care packages. If you went to save with Conrad Dot Com check this out decided you were going to kick the tires see if we could save you some money we send you some stuff in the mail and we've stamps dot com to do that and right now our listeners special she'll offer that includes a four week trial plus free postage and a digital scale without any long-term commitment. All you gotTa do is GonNa Stamps Dot Com Click on the microphone at the top of the homepage and type in this word grilling that's stamps dot com click on the microphone at the top of the homepage and type in our code owed grilling and jr you but he's stamps dot com for a long long time longtime man long before I start podcasting and along before you can I join this holy Audio Union. folks this actually this. This is so smart to do it so stupid not to do because I don't like going to the post office and I had to go sometimes because I have a post office box fan mail okay enough of that but standing in line. There's always align our foe salts here in Norman and I don't know about you. Guys not trustworthy as I should be about. Our peers are public public. I I want to get in and out of the post office. You know what I'm saying. I'M NOT GONNA go wanted detail that but give me give me out and more this stance dot com assault all those issues. If you conroe Sean about you're going to save time or if you're lazy bastard like me and you don't want to park and found a place to park drag your stuff standing in line waste more time you can't get back then continue to go to the post office and God bless those workers but you're smart and you won't be efficient. STANCE DOT COM is the only way to go and Conrad. This offer is extraordinary yeah usually when you're getting into this and I gotTa admit when I first started my business. They didn't know about stamps dot com so I got one of those expensive postage meters. It took me a little awhile to get smartened up man. I'm overpaying STAMPS DOT COM. It's fast. It's easy. It's affordable wanting to do this. GO TO STAMPS DOT COM click that microphone and type in our code. You're going to be glad edged. Did let's talk about Jim. Cornet Man Jim cornets never at a loss for words he was there for all this and he ended up to this flare. Garvan Mazzi said flaring Garvan were having incredible matches. This is night after night to the point that flair had a prescription ointment. He was putting on his chest because every night they would trade chop so hard the flares chest would be bleeding because his flair was making Ronnie Kill him with those knife-edge jobs black and blue. Irani's over the top hand shop were taking layers of skin the an awful flares chest every time so flair had this antibiotic ointment on his chest stop if we're getting infected because that many layers of skin peeled off with every job nope you gotta go out of your way to see this. They've got a couple of matches. If you WANNA see the world title switch it is available author McDougal machine and found. It's probably on on the network somewhere but I can just click and find it there. But of course you know where to find stark eighty-seven you should probably watch both of these matches. I'd be curious to see which one you liked better hitter Jim. You've seen them both. Did you like Detroit or Chicago better. I like Chicago Alex Cobb. I like the a little bit better. Mainly are maybe because shorter and not because I thought the other ones too long I did kind of but they didn't need that much time on and tell the story that they told there's no they can still do thirty three minutes or thirty plus whatever but I think he got to construct a thirty plus minutes story that has different ARCS six different timing. I thought that match the the Chicago was more succinct and just all around a better match both them regressive progressive as hell whether they're cringe worthy to watch cringe-worthy call because you know is hurting and you know you know guys and they're in pain gene and they're doing this because they're pros so it's the thing you don't see much anymore. In pro wrestling guys are so leery of being physical physical. It's easy to go to your producer or your boss said. I don't want to work them anymore. He stiff. I heard that more than everyone be comfortable hearing in my career less several years so that's not how those guys were tougher the better and if you can handle inlet come sit down and watch this amazing it's outstanding and I love to hear your feedback. Which one you like better whether it's Detroit Chicago throws the the feedback on twitter its aunt? Jr Dylan that's an JR grilling and there you'll also see and I can't believe we're we're making this happen. I've convinced you to stay up late in Nashville Nashville right after Awa. TV Super Show live DOT com. That's a real thing Tony Shirvani Jim Ross and myself and Zanies as a Nashville just after the W show of course we're talking about November thirteenth. If you haven't already make plans to be Nashville what a night of wrestling it's going to be we're going to be on the heels. It'll be the first show after aws full gear in Baltimore and you know there's GonNa be some fireworks at that. Show see how those stories are playing out and in just a couple of blocks up the road man Zanies in Nashville. What a great venue? What a great time? We're going to have with our pal Tony Shirvani yeah somebody good. I've I played zanies before it's a great club to show like ours is intimate friendly. You'RE GONNA go see some great wrestling in Nashville there at the fairgrounds for Awa then Conrad and I will Mosey Otani and join us so we have a lot of things talk about but it's primarily accused Nice story show rather stories being told so four should be a lot of fun and and maybe somebody will be nice not to bring me some Chimera Conrad met their Zanies or Lord. I had to show their your two ago and we had our catering was that had he beast. He's fried chicken. Can anybody's hot chicken baby. It was the place to be. There's lots of lots of funny Nashville but I I WANNA mention again. This is an eleven. PM Start so you'RE GONNA go. You're going to go to the show you're going to have a great time and he w and just a few blocks up the road Erna Mosey up hang out with Tony Shabani and Jim Ross and Ryan after show like that the guys you know they're going to be looking for something to do. There may be a w superstar drop in or too. Don't you think could be I'll be shocked. They weren't offended in addition to we'll be fun. I AH nationals great town. Hey maybe Dixie Carson show well. You never let him I was in Nashville. I think Raphael took took Dixie lunch and and the time I saw you there show we we ran into R. O. R. O. Pal Jeff Jarrett he was there and I'm Steve Patty. Who's now one of our mortgage advisers are saved with Conrad Dot Com team and this is a great a great town great wrestling town and what a great wrestling not it will be on November thirteenth? Go ahead and plan on calling in sick on Thursday the fourteenth going to be you don't WanNa miss and the tickets are not going to last as long as they're not many of them so don't be don't dilly dally and so conor also excited. You're not talking about this me head down to Alabama Alabama coming up in a couple of weeks on the fifth and sixth of October Saturday and Sunday in Dothan and you're the only guy that I know that smart to pronounce the last thing correctly from that Akon come on man fanatic on alleged gentleman fanatical on is a huge event like a comic con Pop Culture Con- you know I wanna be a Q. and A. and sign autographs. We're bringing barbecue sauce and in in slobber knocker books assign personalize they bring you swag offs on your stuff and that's going to be the weekend Saturday and Sunday actor our first first aid w show so there should be a lot to talk about and I will probably not be making any appearances of media other than our podcast is here so that'll be interesting opportunity that would be very quoted Cuna. I can promise you because everybody's the most analyzed thing in the world world unfortunately in our world right now being a very much exaggerating is the Wednesday night wars not is not global warming is not hunger is not violence on women or anything. It's really important but the God damn Wednesday night wars I gotTa talk about it so so you can get your chance to talk about it in Dothan with me face to face on October five and six Oh come on and join US Decca Sauce Davey. I'll sauce it for you. Hook it up fanatic Khan dothan. They're coming your way don't forget Super Show Live Dot Com November thirteenth grill. Jr and what happened win in the same place at the same time right after the W show you don't WanNa miss it and you don't WanNa miss next week. I'm excited about this when Jim you and I have laid out a lot of our shows shows of what we've got coming up and next week is going to be another barn. Burner France at the subscribe button is absolutely free. You don't have any money out of pocket pocket but next week show something. I can't wait to talk about with you. It's the first Helena sell it's in your house bad blood nineteen ninety-seven it's the debut of Cain is the night we found out we lost Brian. PULLMAN are so much meat on the bone. What are you looking forward to next week? With this show yeah it is Shawn. Michaels looked at that is a fiscal wrestler tougher than he was given credit for being booked and broadcast a ah the heretofore there Sean Michael became the you know the giant slayer so to speak in the is a lot of people who thought that there was no way away Michael's could match up with the undertaker and man. What a mess ship it was it was it still when I saw the earliest mention I can remember calling calling on pay per view still get flashbacks off it was that good of course that day is Conrad mission you know I had a very close relationship that Brian Tillman from O. Egan's from Calgary to WCW then to wwe great belief and Brian and we found out that he he died? I had the night before Minnesota thank and that was shocking all over so it was a hard day to process and get through for me because you'd make these relationships nations shifts like Barry Switzer output bulk so you said you know you know. Jr when you recruit these slayers you're recruiting for life and I've kind of looked at it that way with a lot of the guys I've tried to help along the away I still help when I can your your survives friend and your friend for life or you're simply not friends so we're losing brian the way we did. They're not get a chance to talk to him or or anything. Along those lines was a very very challenging then go out and call a spirited of Ed ed with the Helena Cell and the hell I it's almost deals the first time it was built good. It was a unique structure. You know it was Satan's playground. All those things devils Deci all those Satan Listrik Hell Asia's analogy I came up with for

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