GOP filibuster protects state-level voting restrictions from Democratic reforms
The show we had nine stern on. Msnbc did you know. I did not know. I think of myself as someone who keeps reasonably up to date with the news and current events but apparently i have been out of loop because i did not know that aliens did nine eleven. I had no idea. I only learned it today. How do you navigate a course through material that encompasses ancient civilizations baxter terrestrial 's secret societies. And what is the relationship. Between those hand. The governance of our modern world. I was able to learn about ancient race choosing breaks. They are most of the all untrustworthy group that has ever been involved with humanity. The ticket netted approach to help the managed st experiment see declassified document that describes a cataclysmic series of events. The main message from the are for us to prepare ourselves. You know. I had no idea. I thought i knew. I thought i knew about these things. I did not know the the aliens and that what they did. I didn't know they are preparing us through the end of the world there. I think in a cause the end of the world. I don't know if that's supposed to be good. The aliens these cute little like deflated. Pillsbury dough boy white aliens. They're kind good but it's also kind of the end of the world turns out it's all just hidden right out in the open. That was a movie. Do we call these things a movie. That was a film that was released in twenty nine thousand nine at least twenty nineteen when it was posted online The same filmmaker also made vis the year before now in this you will recognize some of the same dudes from the other movie but in this movie they have different haircuts and they have different purported expertise tire tracks. That's no footmen. The germans had a settlement on the moon. They had a settlement on mars and they were doing this as early as nineteen thirty nine between the age of sixteen and seventeen years old. I was transported to the moon. And after twenty years i was age regressed back in time and then return to civilian lots. This money is going into underground military bases and secret space programs with technology far beyond what many of us could even realize at some point. This is all going to break open. You get involved. The more compromised you become the may actually kill you see. The giants skulls the skulls of giants there at the end the giants who were also maybe old rich dutch people who got their portraits painted. The i i know ha ha. I ever seen those together and if you put those right next to a turnip i'll tell you what turns out that the giants were maybe the ones who did nine eleven and also i think shot jfk. I it was the giants or it was the aliens that did that may be the giants got killed by the aliens after they shot jfk. Honestly it's hard to figure out. But i will tell you. This filmmaker has evolved over time. His aliens have gotten better looking. They've gotten more more stylish at least cooler. Can we say that. His aliens are getting more hip overtime as his movies about them. Evolve there certainly shelter in the in the in. The man's later work to be sure. I mentioned this I mentioned this. And i introduced you to this. Filmmakers work because for the future of our republic and one of our two major governing parties. It's important to know that that guy the aliens did nine. Eleven guy has a new movie coming out this week. His two thousand eighteen movie was nazis in space and alien skill. Jfk his twenty. Nine thousand nine movie was aliens. Are eating our dna and freemasons watch out and here comes the end of the world. But don't worry the aliens very peaceful siemian and they'll be cool with you if you watch these movies. Those were his previous works now. His new movie which comes out. This week is about the arizona on the so-called audit of the arizona presidential election result arranged by republicans in the arizona state legislature. That is the subject of his next movie. And he appears to be sort of the authorized documentarian of the arizona audit. I say that because his movie apparently does feature all the people who are doing the audit all the big players the opening scene for example in the trailer for the film. Is ken bennett. The arizona republican officials who has served all this time as these spokesman for the audit that there is talking to the nazis on the moon. Aliens did nine eleven filmmaker but while he is if you look at the background he's at the site of the arizona recount audit thing at that arena in phoenix. Talking to the aliens. Did nine eleven filmmaker about the arizona recount. The movie also includes lots of footage and testimony from the guy who writes books about treasure hunting and his big claim to fame was inventing a hand held barcode scanner shaped like a house cat. That's the gentleman who now claims to have secret. Technology can't disclose to you which he calls kinna medic artifact detection it is secret but it is supposedly being applied to oliveras federal election ballots to prove to prove that donald trump must have secretly one. Ask the secret cat scanner. The movie also includes apparently the ceo who has maybe also the sole employee of cyber ninjas. That's the firm the guy who's actually running whatever it is. The republicans are doing with the federal election ballots in arizona. His name is doug logan. Ceo of cyber ninjas. He was shadowed out visually in the original trailer for the movie but they used his voice. When local reporters in arizona recognized his voice and realized that was him The filmmakers re cut the trailer to make doug logan's voice digitally altered when everybody laughed at them for doing that. They issued a third version of the trailer. This one with doug logan from cyber ninjas cut out entirely but if you think you are ready to learn the truth about the twenty twenty arizona election results and you specifically want to learn that truth from the guy who finally figured out that it must have been aliens who did nine eleven and wow jfk to watch out they might steal you and take you to the moon for twenty years. If that's the guy you want to learn the truth from about the arizona presidential election in two thousand twenty He had some big news for you this week. He will not be shocked to learn that he announced this news on a telegram channel. That's for followers of the non conspiracy theory but that's where he made the announcement. You guys you guys. His new movie is ready. He did the aliens movie in two thousand eighteen to the different aliens movie in two thousand nineteen but now his twenty twenty. One movie is ready. It's apparently shot on site. At the republican arizona election audit in phoenix. It is premiering at a church in phoenix this weekend. Which i think means it's time to the end of arizona. So-called audit this week is when whatever they're doing that so-called audit is supposed to be wrapped up and the big culminating event will be the screening of the official documentary about what happened in arizona. And how of the arizona. Auditable expose the trump truth of honestly the reason we know about any of this because really good reporters dog reporters at the arizona mirror and the arizona republic and local. Tv stations in phoenix and groups like arizona. Right wing watch have been documenting. This stuff for posterity because you otherwise wouldn't believe it but a significant portion of the country a majority of republican voters across the country. Say they believe that. Donald trump actually won reelection or at least that there was significant fraud and there were many irregularities in the last election and when majority of republican voters. Tell pollsters that what they are thinking of. Is this so-called in arizona. Right all there's a recount their right and it sounds like they're turning up stuff that's really really bad. Well now from the guy who brought you the movie On the left about the secret space program growing aliens deep inside the earth Were about to get what i guess is the authorized documentary expose of the arizona thing including the support and involvement of the republican officials and contractors. Who are running it and it would be hilarious. It still kind of areas except for the part where this is the basis for republicans in huge numbers now saying that the last election was distorted and corrupted by massive fraud and so nobody can have any faith in the election outcome and therefore republican controlled legislatures across the country must dramatically restrict voting rights and change the administration of elections. So we never have another election like twenty twenty again. I mean it will also be the predicate for whatever's going to happen in our country in august when arizona says they're going to release their findings after whatever. It is the cunanan cyber ninjas. People did to the ballots in the voting machines in arizona their report on their so called audit. They say will be ready in late. July or early august and august says he will be reinstated as president. He expects in august to be reinstated as president presumably. He believes on the basis of what arizona is going to say found in this thing that they set up in this local arena and had documented by the nazis on mark sky. This just doesn't seem like a healthful way for a mature democracy to handle the transition of power you know and it you know maybe it all seems like fun and games until an angry armed mob. Storms your national capital to stop the election results from being certified or someone reporting to the pro-trump faction in your state. Legislature starts banging on your door demanding to know who you voted for threatening that you seem like the kind of person this seems like the kind of address that feels a little shady to them. And that's going to be reported as fraud. The watchdog group american oversight this week obtained a bunch of documents from the republicans who set up and have administered the so-called audit there among the documents they obtained. Was this one reporting back. Apparently on a door to door canvass quote by a citizens nonpartisan grassroots project. They say they went door to door. In maricopa county and pima county arizona knocking on people's doors asking who lived there and then asking about their vote in the presidential election in november and then reporting up to arizona republicans that literally most of the addresses. They went to seemed like likely fraudsters quote to date over. Three thousand homes have been canvassed in order to verify the integrity of the voter rolls. Fifty two percent of those canvas addresses required. An affidavit for an irregularity fifty two percent really a majority of households in arizona are seen as needing affidavits because of irregularities as reported by. Volunteer citizen canvassers this tracks with news that we saw a week ago in the republic quote. People are knocking on the doors of yavapai county residents this in arizona and asking how they voted in the last election while falsely claiming to represent the county recorder's office according to sheriff's office officials. The mysterious door to door survey has alarmed local officials. It comes after the justice. Us department of justice warned arezzo senate republicans against plans to canvas voters homes as part of an unprecedented review of november's election. In fact that warning is true. In may the us justice department of senior us justice department official wrote to arizona. Republicans warning them about what they were doing with this so called audit warning them about strict federal laws that govern the handling of ballots voting machines after a federal election arizona. Republicans blew that off and kept doing exactly what they've been doing before. Which means the justice department apparently didn't mean what they said in that letter because they never followed up our took any visible action despite the implied threat in that letter. But the justice department letter to arizona warned zona republicans about what had been there stated plans to go bang on people's doors to ask them about their vote in the presidential election after doj sent that letter warning about the mishandling of ballots and voting machines. Warning about plans to go door to door asking voters about how they voted arizona. Republicans responded to that part of it and said yeah well. They didn't have plans to do the door to door stuff anyway. But now in this records request. Thanks to american oversight. Know that it happened i mean what arizona. Republicans had reported to them from these volunteer. Canvassers is that it was thousands of arizona who got knocks on their door with random people holding clipboards trying to appear like official something demanding to know about their vote. In the presidential election. It happened in maricopa county. It happened in pima. county happened in the pike. County the justice department explicitly warned arizona against doing this warned arizona. Republicans because it's against the federal law that prohibits intimidating voters in this way they got the warning. They apparently did it anyway. In three counties thousands of households is the justice department going to do anything about that other than their stern warning. They sent in may followed up with no action in response. Anyone hello is this thing on. We don't know what if anything the white house and the biden administration more. Broadly plans to do to try to defend voting rights and to protect election processes against this unprecedented and still rising tide of pressure from republican controlled legislatures and republican state houses around the country. Today reporter for vice news says she asked the number two senate democrat dick durbin. What would happen next on. Voting rights after republicans filibustered. The democrats voting rights bill in the senate. Today elizabeth lenders wrote that Senator durbin responded quote. I'm not sure meaning. I'm not sure what will happen next. He then hinted that president biden is quote doing a lot of things that haven't been announced publicly before too long white house chief of staff. Ron clain retweeted that pointedly. Literally with a little pointing emoji seeming to endorse the idea that there may be actions. President biden himself for the biden administration. Broadly is taking on this issue. That we can't yet. Okay i'm intrigued. I'm looking forward to finding out about that. But whether it's potentially justice department action to enforce federal laws around the handling of ballots and not intimidating voters or whether it's something else they've got in mind when it comes to the law when it comes to the path of legislation it did hit that big expected speed bump today thanks to democrats unwillingness to reform the filibuster rules in the face of republican willingness to use the filibuster against absolutely everything even voting rights. All fifty. republican senators voted today. That there should not even be a debate on the voting rights. Bill before the people act that also meant that republicans didn't even consent to considering to even talking about a different version of the bill like for example these significantly reduced iteration of the bill proposed by conservative democratic senator joe manchin of west virginia. Senator manchin has been the focus of attention on this issue because because of the peculiar angle he took on this thing. It wasn't just that mansion said. He didn't want to vote for a voting rights. Bill unless it had republican support. He said that but he also expressed this relentless and sort of inexplicable optimism that some republicans would support voting rights in the end. When he wrote his op ed. His hometown paper recently expressing his opposition to any voting rights. Bill that didn't have republican support. That was sort of an implicit criticism of his democratic colleagues in the senate for writing voting rights bill that no republican senator could support senator mentioned than his theory to the test though he wrote his own version of a voting rights. Bill actually showing his own ideas his concept of the kind of bill he thought republicans rightfully should support and should be expected to support on voting rights. Senator manchin drew up his own proposal. What he thought should get republican votes. The republican leader in the senate. Mitch mcconnell responded by calling mansions bill or his proposed bill quote rotten and then today republican senators fifty. Republican senators voted to not even consider which i mentioned put forward. So does this change. Senator mansions mind about any of this. Does it shift his idea that no voting rights. Bill should pass if it doesn't have republican votes now that he sees the way that republicans are approaching this issue in terms of deciding what they're gonna vote for what they're even going to vote to debate what they're gonna vote to even here. Does this change his mind about whether or not a voting rights. Bill must have republican votes if it is going to be a legitimate approach to this issue that deserves support. We don't know senators leave at the end of this week to go home for a two week long. July fourth recess what senators hear from their constituents when they're at home about the importance of voting rights. That may be determinative here as to whether this is now over or whether there might be in next step at home in phoenix arizona. Today this was the scene at the offices of democratic. Senator kirsten cinema. She is the other conservative democrat. Who's been a real hold out on this issue. Also insisting that since republicans really ought to support voting rights. Democrats should give up on it if they don't. I know i know. I know her. Constituents clearly no in addition to these visits at her office today senator cinemas also facing ads like these ones running on arizona. Tv stations just blasting her for not being willing to get it done for not standing up for voting rights now. I don't know how this is going to end. But i do know that. Republicans in the states are going maximalist with their position on this issue to the point where they literally aren't ashamed to have the dude who makes movies about nazis on the moon and aliens doing nine eleven becoming the official documentarian for their effort to promote an election fraud narrative about arizona because they need their election fraud narrative to bolster not only republican disrespect for election broad strokes but specifically to bolster republican efforts in all republican controlled states now to rescind voting rights and make voting harder they are going for a maximalist conception here senate republicans in washington. No that is long as the filibuster is there. Democrats have no options in terms of backing up voting rights clear on that the republican party being clear on that in terms of whether there's going to be any federal protection for voting rights clears the field for republicans in the states to go maximalist and shamelessly as far as they can on this issue to make voting as restricted as possible to target voting restrictions. And the the the administration of elections in a way that is maximally partisan to their advantage and so they proceed unless democrats can figure out can get their heads around the fact that this is what they're up against and fight the same kind of fight on the same kind of terms. minnesota senator. Amy klobuchar is an original cosponsor of the voting rates. Bill that stalled today in the senate. She says her next move is to take the show on the road. She says she's going to start doing field hearings out in the states. Documenting the stakes in this fight and taking it to the places where the fight is being waged. Senator klobuchar joins us next day with us across the nation. Constitutional rights are being assaulted. And i fear that if we don't act as a body in this moment we will have cross a dangerous rubicon in our nation. Why some people hiding what in for what purpose. At whose behest. We were reminded on january six that it is up to us to protect against threats to our democracy. Honestly i would love to get some support from the other side of the aisle but we have to be honest. I don't expect we're going to get it so my republican colleagues. This is not the end of the line for this bill. This is not the end of the line. This is only the begin fail. Warnock of georgia. Amy klobuchar of minnesota were among many democrats today who spoke out in support of s one for the people. October voting rights. Bill head of this afternoon's first big vote. Put it on the senate floor for debate. It's already passed the house. If it can pass the senate it will go to president biden and he will sign it into law but that effort to get it onto the senate floor. Today for debate failed all fifty. Republican senators voted against even starting debate on the bill. This was a filibuster. They required sixty votes to get this thing onto the floor and republicans insisted unilaterally and unanimously that that would not happen republican senate leader mitch. Mcconnell promised to make sure the bill stays dead that it never goes anywhere. He vowed today to quote put an end to it. But despite today's defeat for proponents of the bill a chorus of democratic senators said. This fight is still beginning. They're not letting this go. Senator klobuchar for example chairs the rules committee in the senate and tonight she announced her committee is packing up and heading to georgia to hold a field hearing on voting rights and on the voting rights. Fight in georgia to hear firsthand from voters in one of the states where election rules in voting rights is being are being radically restricted in the aftermath of president trump's reelection loss last year vice president carmela harris is technically the president of the senate in that capacity. She presided over. Today's vote afterwards. She also promised that this is not over. The issue here is is there actual access to the voting process. Or is that being impeded and the bottom line is that the president and i are very clear support s one. We support the john. Lewis voting rights act and the fight is not you can hear the reporter at the end. They're saying what's next what's next. Which of course is is the key question joining us now. Is minnesota senior senator. The chair of the rules committee in the senate. Senator amy klobuchar senator. It's great to have you here. thank you so much. thanks rachel. what's next. Where does this go. Its next we're going to georgia. The rules committee has not gone on the road for twenty years and that is just the beginning because my colleagues. Maybe should have learned a lesson in georgia. My republican colleagues. And that is. I smiled when i heard the great center of worn act. Speak the guy who set it all probably one sentence. This is all summed up that some people don't want some people to vote and guess what when the people of georgia saw what was happening back in early january when they saw the big lie being perpetrated on them when they saw their elections being undermined by the republican party. They turned out and they voted. They didn't just voting one democratic senator. They voted into. So we have the people on our side on this big time rachel. Democrats republicans independence the bill polls. What seventy eight percent. For many of the provisions. We have a united party as you saw the vote today so we are not ending this fight and one of the ways we do. That is getting out of this capitol dome and heading out to the state so we can hear from people and so my colleagues can hear them. Because it's hard to hide when you have people talking about standing ten hour lines without food and water or people trying to find one drop off ballot box in the middle of harris county texas of five million people or the discriminatory voting practices or six states. Still requiring notarized signatures from notary publics just to get an application for an absentee ballot. That's what they're going to hear when we go out there to states across the country and is it your expectation that that kind of pressure and that kind of public support for the the voting rights protections that were in this bill. Is it your expectation that that will peel off. Republicans who will decide that. They want to align themselves more with public opinion on this that they see the light on this and republicans repeal often support or. Is it your expectation that democrats in your own caucus will decide that. This is important enough and there's enough public support for this that this is worth a new approach to the senate rules that allows this to be passed without republican votes. I would take either. But the point is that. I'm not giving up and center warnock's getting up no is nor is senator merkley. We are not giving up. And i favor abolishing the filibuster and i came to that decision. After years of inaction after seeing how important legislation on things like climate change and immigration reform things were. there was even bipartisan. Agreement got stopped because of an archaic procedure. And i don't think our colleagues on the other side should be able to tyrannise us in the country and hold the country hostage. I don't think you should be able to filibuster our democracy. That's what i believe but of course yes. We have to convince some of our colleagues to make changes. They've been open to reforms. You've heard senator manchin talk about the standing filibuster and we can proceed that way and we can also put pressure on republicans but the point is there are so many provisions in this bill including by the way the disclose act to go after dark money and our politics that is overwhelmingly overwhelmingly popular. And i'd like to see my colleagues on the other side. Vote against that or my honest. Adzic would simply says the social media. Companies have to put disclosures and disclaimers on these ads. So we know exactly where the money's coming from all of these things are going to be on the ballot as we move forward. I mentioned a few minutes ago about an exchange with senator durbin of illinois That a reporter from vice news had with him today in which. He's told her that he wasn't sure what was going to happen next procedurally but he also said that is it was his understanding that president biden and the biden white house or doing a lot of things on this that haven't been announced publicly but that might be materially relevant in terms of what happens next. Do you have any idea what he is talking about. Is there someplace else we should be looking in terms of next steps or what other resources might be available for voting rights protection. There's a lot of things we're can infrastructure package right now and there's going to be bipartisan group. That's negotiating hard but there's also going to be a second package and we include election infrastructure in there when it comes to the justice department. You're looking at people like vanita gupta. That's over there people at kristen clark. These experienced leaders who understand voting rights. This is not your daddy's justice martian. I say your daddy william bars justice department anymore. These are incredible forceful leaders. Who know what they're doing. So i can't tell you exactly what they're going to do but what i can say is. They're going to make sure that these states out there who are even thinking of impinging on people's right to vote. They're going to go after that. Because you can't do that. in america. this is fundamental right shared by democrats republicans independence. Anyone that wants to vote in america. Something our whole country was founded on the simple idea of democracy and these guys whatever they are cyber ninja. Whatever they are they are messing with us right now and people in this country. Don't like that look what they did in georgia back in january. So we've got major major work in front of us in on many fronts. Rachel so i don't want to take away from the work we've got to do in the coming month on infrastructure and build back better But i can tell you. There are a number of us at c. the evil that's out there and we're not just gonna pretend and go away. That's why i'm bringing the rules committee out on the road. Minnesota senator chaired the rules committee. Senator amy klobuchar of minnesota is. It's great to have you here. I know that this is the start of a different kind of fight here. Thanks for keeping us apprised senator. It's great to see you. Thanks rachel all right little jarred by the whole daddy william bar thing. I'm just gonna take a quick shower. We'll be right back a year ago. My very good very old friend a producer on this show. Stephen bannon published a book. That is basically i mean. It's not a reference guide. It's a narrative. But i have since used it as a frequently referred to reference guide for how to understand today's politics and how to understand what's not the same between the two parties The is called the impostors republicans quit governing and seized politics. The basic thesis is that the republican party is different from the democratic party in one very specific way they are post policy whatever they may have been in the past or whatever they may have been driven by in the past the key insight you need for understanding them today is that they are not working on policy anymore. They are not working on governing. they're working on powerrr. they're working on messaging. They're working on all sorts of other things that benefit themselves but governing policy running the country not a functioning dynamic inside their party at all and a post policy party uninterested in governing is of course a very nice very empty vessel that can with shocking as an over by say a demagogue with no goals behind beyond his own power and ego. Here's a little piece of it. This is actually from a brand new afterward to the impostors which is just out today. In paperback steve says quote among the hallmarks of post policy thinking is a rejection of data evidence and expertise in the case of the twenty twenty presidential election. Data showed trump losing the race. Badly the evidence to the contrary simply didn't exist even experts from trump's own administration rejected the president's utterly ridiculous claims indeed christopher krebs the nation's top cyber security official at the department of homeland security celebrated the fact that the elections were the most secure in american history and we're untainted by regularities. President trump responded by firing christopher krebs for having told the truth when even general william bar said the justice department couldn't find evidence of systemic fraud trump parted ways with him to. It would've been awful enough. For an american president to borrow the playbook us too often by foreign autocrats but the calamity was made vastly worse by his party's willingness to endorse trump's democratic assault with limited exceptions congressional republicans cheered the president on while he tried to overturn the results of his defeat unmoved by trump's apparent madness and the toll it was taking on the integrity of the country's institutions. And of course that effort has only grown in pace and scope since the the effort to undermine the results of the twenty twenty election is now the animating force within the republican party. Which more than anything is working on. Rescinding voting rights and seizing partisan control of the administration of elections. And it shows no sign of slowing down quite the contrary. But here's one other important. Point steve's make. Steve makes in his book. And this is part of why i love. Stephen have worked for them for so many years since literally. We were kids. I think of us kids. He also writes about the fact that it is not inevitable that the republicans are post policy. Party it is a choice they are making and you can prove it. Steve says quote it would be a mistake to assume. Republicans are incapable of effective policy-making when utilizing gerrymandering techniques to give republican candidates unfair and undemocratic electoral advantages for example republicans have demonstrated in uncanny ability to carefully utilize evidence in pursuit of substantive goals and north carolina. For example an appeals court found that republican officials drew legislative district boundaries that targeted black voters with quote almost surgical precision. It was part of a racist schemed undermine democracy but it was also a reminder that when republicans are willing to set their minds to it they are able to roll up their sleeves and do substantive work in pursuit of their goals. Their goals are sometimes of aren't but the party at least has the capacity meaning. They're numerous they. Just don't choose to be when it comes to things like bogus. Election fraud claims when it comes to drawing maps for electoral advantage they can be very numerous and from from all of these incredibly specific targeted laws being passed and republican controlled states. Laws aimed at making it harder for certain people to vote in easier for republican officials to overrule election outcomes. They don't like up to and including tonight's united republican senate blockade against even debating a new voting rights. Bill republicans are showing. They can set a goal and work toward it. It's just that the only gold. They seem to have right. Now is making it harder to vote and undermining faith an american elections joining us. Now is my friend. Steve bannon a longtime producer of this program. The editor of motto blog dot com and the author of the impostors republicans quit governing and seized american politics. Which is out today in paperwork. Paperback with a brand new afterwards. Steve congratulations my friend. It's great to see you. it's to be your thing so much. This is the part will remind people that you were also the first ever guest on the first ever. Rachel maddow's show where you were sitting in front of a fake bookcase now. Thirteen years down the road down the road. You're still my guest when i need to talk to you. But those are real books in their angle annoyed by the fact that when i look back at that originally interview you look the same and i don't seems terribly unfair. It's a wig. That's pretty much how i do it. That's my secret steve. I want to ask you about what we saw today. And that conversation. I had with senator klobuchar. Seeing republican unanimity against even debating. The voting rights. Bill seeing senator mcconnell defined this as something hill die on this is not a problem and therefore it needs no solutions and republicans. Entertain nothing on this issue. How does that. How does that fit into your broader understanding of what the republican party wants and what they're good at is acquiring maintaining power and that is really their only principal focus their only principal goal. And i think today we saw evidence of the atwood would democrats did was approached this as a policy matter. They saw problem innovative solution. They relied on data. They relied on evidence. It turned to experts and they put together a credible governing solution. The we had governing party should would we see from republicans we saw the opposite we saw them discard the data. We saw them discard the evidence. We saw them focusing on their their political goals are ideological goals. And that's very much in keeping with post policy thesis. A governing party would approach this debate entirely differently and so that a symmetry where democrats are approaching one way. Democrats and republicans are approaching it in a post policy way that a is the defining problem in my mind if american paused takes today you and i talked about this idea this insight into the difference between the parties for a long time before you wrote the book and we've been talking about it ever since and now with the new afterward and the paperback version. I feel like the conversation just keeps getting deeper. But we're in the same place that we were and we still have the same pressing question in terms of what the country needs. Which is what do you do about it. We don't we still don't have a playbook for what to do. When one of two major parties in the country gives up on the idea of governing and decides to work as you say essentially just on holding power is there. Do you feel like your understanding of this on has advanced to the point where you can be prescriptive as to how democrats should approach combat with their partisan counterparts here given the differences between the two parties. I think that some democratic senators make the same mistake but some voters make which is that for years. We could make the assumption that there were two responsible mature governing parties and voted with that decision all the time assuming that that both democrats republicans despite their differences had the technocratic wherewithal to solve problems and the point i emphasize in the book is that that assumption is badly in need of reexamination because to assume that republicans are governing party is is to overlook the radical transformation that we've seen the party over the course of the last twelve years and so when i see some democratic senators people like west. Virginia's joe manchin. We make this assumption there sticking this old fashioned assumption. That republicans are the same as they were there not. They've made this transition to being oppose policy party in by that i mean they've abandoned the pretense that policy making the substance of policymaking matters altogether and that means that there's no point in arguing policy with them essentially that the the the the field of combat once they've decided as power only has to be power politics right. Exactly right right. When republicans focus exclusively on the acquisition and maintenance of power and then we have democratic senators treating them as if they were a member of the governing party. That is that is that leads to inevitable breakdowns. in fact we've seen several of those breakdowns just this year on things. Like the first debate of twenty twenty one on the the democrats could relief package whether we see from republicans. A preoccupation with dr seuss said followed on infrastructure on january six commission on voting rights again and again democrats democrats who talking pass another because the parties are not just asking not just offering different answers. They're asking different kinds of questions. Steve bannon is a producer on the show. He's the editor of motto blog. Dot com There's probably nobody writing On politics and a daily way in the world that has more influence on the way. I think about politics than the great. Steve bannon Steve congratulations on the paperback again. The book is called the impostors. Republicans quit governing and seized american. Politics is out today. Paperback edition with afterward Steve thank you so much for your time tonight my friend. It's great to see you. Thank you so much. All right more ahead stay with us polls are now closed tonight in the race to be the democratic candidate for mayor in the largest city in the country And even if you know absolutely nothing about new york city politics even if you've never been to new york city you probably still know that. The democratic primary for mayor in new york city is essentially the whole ballgame New york isn't what it used to be. And whoever the republicans picking their primary that person dollars to doughnuts will not win the general election in november the democrat candidate will have a huge advantage. It just means whoever wins. Today's democratic primary will likely be the person who goes on to govern the city that has a population larger than roughly forty of the fifty states to consequential thing and the field of contenders is gigantic. Former presidential candidate injury yang The borough president from brooklyn his name is eric adams the former Sanitation commissioner for the city. Kathryn garcia lawyer and civil rights activist mile wiley. Who whom you have seen here on. Msnbc and her roles and msnbc contributor that's just to name a few that's a minority of the candidates who are running but whether or not you care about who is ultimately going to win. This is going to be fascinating to watch because this is the first time. New york's going to be using ranked choice voting. You don't just vote for your favorite candidate you pick your top five and list them in order of preference one two three four five. If your first choice doesn't win and gets knocked out your vote gets reallocated to your second choice or third choice fourth choice. Even your fish it's complicated. At least tabulating is complicated. Even the voting isn't all that complicated right now. We're starting to get the first round of numbers on who voters ranked as their first choice. We expect to get more of these first choice first round numbers tonight but if nobody gets fifty percent they keep going until somebody does. The actual tabulation of who ultimately wins the democratic primary is expected to take until next month before we actually know our own. Steve kornacki is watching this complex data as it starts to come in tonight. He's going to be giving a full update to my beloved colleague lawrence. O'donnell live in the next hour. So you will want to stay tuned for that. Stay us all right. That's going to do it for us for now overnight tonight. Of course we're going to be watching. Election results come in in new york including the new york mayor's race also the very interesting question of who will replace sivan's The new york state prosecutor in manhattan. Who's been pursuing this complex and potentially very consequential criminal investigation a former president. Donald trump and his business. We'll have coverage of all that and more tonight here on msnbc continuing now. The wage meadow show weeknights at nine eastern on msnbc.