63: Interview With Patrick McKeown
Welcome to episode sixty three of the rapid change matters. Podcast A conversation with leading proponent of the Butare breathing method and author of the oxygen advantage. Patrick mckeown my name's Howard Cooper and for over fourteen years. Now I've been fascinated with helping people to create personal change quickly but I still come across. Many believed that losting personal change has to take a long time consisting of reliving traumas or deep psychological analysis or simply that flawed notion that understanding. Why you have a problem will somehow make it go away. I'm on a mission to get people who work therapeutically with others to shift their thinking and realized that these beliefs and not written in stone. Rapid change can happen so to help you open up to. What's possible I'm chatting with top therapists and agents of change. Who are out there. Getting real results with real people really quickly before we get to the interview. I've got big news. Rapid Change Works is now running live training events and you can check out the latest events coming up by visiting rapid change dot works where you can also download a free quick to read. Pdf on five strategies to amplify your client response along with all the information about this episode and episode. Still to come now with the interview. Today we breathe some new life into the podcast. My next guest is the author of the book. The oxygen advantage and is someone who's trained thousands of people to breathe more efficiently. A leading proponent of the buteyko method of breathing. He may change your views on breathing for good myself. A good enormous value after reading this book and practicing the methods outlined the number is huge benefits and using some of these principles in Cloyne work to especially helping people. Things gives me enormous pleasure to welcome. Patrick McEwen to the podcast. Welcome Patrick thanks. Very much aren't good to be here. It's absolutely fantastic to have you hoping we can straighten because a many appoint listeners might not know much about you or your background or how you ended up. Becoming one of the leading proponents of the view take methods. So maybe you could give us a little luck era affiliate justify your back pressure as close as it's not a career that you would. You would go into at least twenty years ago by choice so I fell into it by accident fit into it because my own how tissues as a kid growing up I had chronic nasal obstruction. I was a chronic map reader. If you're breathing mattress sleep is impacted. Map-reading is also causing fast oppor. Chess breathing that results in education of the mind and mouth breathing also feeding into asthma. So when you have a breathing pattern disorder such as fast process breathing. It wasn't just impacting my asthma but it was impacting. My sleep and it was impacting anxiety. But of course she'll learn to live with us because you know what our way and I used to always been used to say to me. They could hear my breathing. Our did I have a head cold and debt. I still fat no matter how much era breed that I still wasn't getting an affair and it wasn't because I was under breathing. The Problem Mazda developed the habit of breathing too hard too fast too much air and that will find the face of what's often toll auch and told to people who are under stress. They're often towards take a deep Brett. Did take a big Brett. It's entirely the wrong thing to do so I was. You know after a fifteen twenty years ago. Remember exactly but Saturday was twenty your twenty years of in and out of medical doctors and hospitals and I came across an article in the newspaper about the work of a Russian doctor constantly. You take up. This is back in one thousand nine hundred page and he said two things he said. Break through your nose at all time. And he said breed lange so I started using his exercise to decongest minnows. And that night then I tape my mouth. Tonight used a nasal danger and the first morning. I didn't find much of a difference but the second morning I woke up fitting act and I woke up feeling more alert than ahead ever done that. I could ever remember. There was something that was a difference there and you know. Let me think of breathing. Breathing seldom gets attention and when it does get attention. Oftentimes the information. That's put out there. It's it's not correct and it doesn't make sense and oftentimes. I think it can do more harm than it can go if people believe that hard breathing and taken big brats is going to have calmed them down. It's entirely incorrect. So what I would like to explore his. Maybe why have misinterpretations convenient breathing? Why has breathing being overlooked? What role does breathing have to play with? People that hangs is he and poor sleep. And what's the connection between breathing sleep anxiety so to cut a long story short? It made a huge difference to my life. My background is economics from university in Dublin Dublin I wasn't the corporate world and then in two thousand and one. I had lunch that I wanted to teach breathing. So I trained in Russia doctoral. Butare he was alive at the time and he crashes may a comeback to art in two thousand and two and I've been teaching fulltime ever since I've written eight books. My latest book the oxygen advantages going into fourteen languages. And I teach this internationally so unfortunate. I found a job that I absolutely love to do. And it's very satisfying. It's very rewarding. And you know it's it's tremendous to be honest with you. It's really interesting. Hearing that one of the questions that I wanted to explore with us you knew that you had sort of congestion people. Colvin's it on your breathing. You mentioned earlier and then you suddenly see also all this thing about this on that you've never come across before. What was it stuck out to you? That the help she guy. Oh okay. That's interesting. This something there about what is. GonNa say that. I WANNA try because it'd be so easy to dismiss something a lot of people you know when you say suffer fools outside of cognitive biases. They go well well. Let's probably rubbish. Just carry on debriefing harder. But but you didn't you Kinda went. Oh hold on the soap. Make different hair. That's interesting well. The newspaper article and might not have been the first time to the cam across the importance of nose breathing. But certainly they are to. What struck a chord with me. And I was conscious that I remember being in hospital with Asman back in nineteen ninety four and also that same year we had our nine five ounce had operation. My nose fixmer knows but finally the operation surgeons never told me to break through so the surgeons at dressed as lab -struction but didn't address. The Habash and this happens with children are not US towers of as nasal operation scoring on. Children are having a noise removed but children encouraged to NASAB right afterwards. It's a real issue. We can't just change. The obstruction would act changing the behavior but I remember being in hospital with asthma attack. Nineteen ninety four to medical doctors. Come in this sense my breathing and they commented that he breeds both through his nose and trude as much and that stuck with me so I knew there was a problem there and probably that nays breathing was the way to go but it wasn't might prefer droop because if. I try to reach my nose. I felt I wasn't getting enough air so I needed techniques to be able to decongest my nose and all of these techniques have been available and written about like when I look back at this when I knock cash journals written by over one hundred years ago looking at how mark breathing can affect your children. How these kids have no attention in school. How to grow their face? I would cause crooked. Tish how deep the Like the face dollar and expressionless The teacher is accusing the child of of daydreaming. That was made and falling asleep. And we have a fifty percent of the fifty percent study. Children are persistent map breathing and it's completely being overlooked and it's a huge problem. Doors a study conducted by Kanban in stratford-upon-avon. It was believe I think if if I can remember correctly was a nature study looking at eleven thousand children and they looked at children with sleep. Disordered breathing and mouth breathing is a contributory factor to the children would sleep disorder breathing. They if untreated. They had a forty percent increase. Risk of special education dates. Now you know. Why is this being overlooked? Why is nobody talking about my breathing? Why is nobody talking about mark breathing during sleep and I would say dealing with People Xijing? How can you have a camera? And if you don't have asleep good sleep quashing and we have to consider that the bidirectional relationship between breathing sleep and the mind if we are stressed out. Breathing gets faster and upper chest but faster and upper chest. Breathing also feeds back into stress. And GITEX TO MIND. Can you have a Cam? Mind if physiologically you're breathing faster and upper chest. If you have faster and upper chest breathing map we think it impacts your sleep quality. You don't achieve deep quasi sleep and you will wake up feeling refreshed if you don't make fieldwork feeling refreshed. You're more likely to be anxious because you cannot concentrate. You cannot be productive so you cannot achieve everyday tasks that you want to do so your sleep is feeding into anxiety but also if you have an agitated mind. It's difficult to fall asleep insomnia so individuals who can't switch off where there is incessant and repetitive activity. Where there's one taught after the other approach by we're ruminating on on issues that are going on and we end up twisting and turning you know for a couple of hours before we go to sleep that's going to also result tin and waking up feeling refreshed so an agitated mind affects our sleep sleep quasi can impact. Niger tasted mind and agitated. Mind affects breathing and how we breathe effects. An an agitated mind how we breed affects your sleep. How am I stop talking in his ear? Because sometimes they go into like I remember speaking to a group of psychotherapists and I told him you know. I didn't tell the money thing but I explained cognitive behavioral therapies tremendous but it does not changing response to physiology and we know that from studies. And if you are working with somebody would anxiety with depression with high stress levels with post traumatic stress disorder. How can you really make 'em huge difference to that individual's life unless you look at sleep and unless you look at breathing and those are two things and the research in terms of breathing is not just about taking that big Brett it's not just about focusing on the bio mechanics of breathing is as often emphasized and yoga and Palatis breathing is more complex. But it's not that complex at the same time. There are trade dimensions to breathing biochemical by mechanical and cadence of the Brett and the breadth at South by working windisch. It can impart a tremendous terror -peutic beneficiary from sympa practice that you bring into your everyday life because it's true you're breathing that you influence the functions of the body. That's outside of your normal nausea Automatic control so I think it's a great inroad but when we talk about breathing we need to quantify and qualify wash. Are we talking about and how to make the changes to breathing? Because we don't want to make mistakes with this. If an individual has a belief of taking hard full big bricks they actually do more harm than good. Do you think so I I would like to just before. We get to lower clarify for the audience. What specifically the Buteiko method of breathing is a not gonNA bunch more questions a more things that I'd love to explore with. You is duly essentially through giving out advice as we grow up from hearing parents and counselors. Who Don't really understand the mechanisms get in the way of just the natural understanding of how to do it. I always knowing today. A too much analysis in too much outside influences gets us to basically practice and screw it up and then we have to reload. And that's the thing that I became to to to say sure will answer the first question. Dr Buteiko was focused mainly in the biochemistry of breathing. He said dodged. There is a normal partial pressure of carbon dioxide in the blood which is correct. It's forty millimeters of mercury. But if you re too hard you get rid of too much. Carbon dioxide from the bloodshed the lungs carbon dioxide is not just a waste gas it performs a number of very important functions in the human body for example. Your blood circulation is influenced by carbon dioxide. And if you break too much air you blow off carbon too much carbon dioxide your move too much carbon dioxide from the blood should the lungs and this causes blood vessels to constrict so many of your listeners will have code hands that can be impacted from breathing to heart. They have brain fog that can be impacted from breathing. Too hard and cold fish and other aspect of carbon dioxide is that it's not just a waste gas people talk about bringing oxygen and get rid of carbon dioxide because when oxygen transfers from the lungs into the blood in the blood carried by Hemoglobin Molecules which are proteins inside the red blood cells but we need to presence of carbon dioxide as a catalyst for for red blood cells to release oxygen to the tissues. And that's the board effect that was discovered back in nineteen o four so again if we are breathing too hard we blow off too much. Carbon Dioxide disinterring causes red blood cells to hold onto oxygen stronger and as a result less oxygen actually gets delivered throughout the body so the harder we breed the more blood vessels constrict and the less oxygen gets delivered to tissues organs including the heart and the brain and hyperventilation. If you are most people I think will identify with this. If I say to somebody I want you now to take ten full big breaks in and out of your nose or mapped. There will often feel lightheaded and it can happen. All it takes thirty seconds on power breathing to reduce blood flow to the brain and it can reduce blood flow blood flow to the brain by up to forty percent. And that's a significant drop in a course that hard breathing synonymous drought or evolution. Would fight or flight with stress so stress of courses making us breathe faster but then it doesn't make sense for us to stop breathing harder in an attempt to negate stress. Because all we're going to do is to make it worse. So that's your take was so soon centered solely on carbon dioxide on the biochemistry getting carbon dioxide levels normal by normalizing breathing fine. He said that people aren't breathing. Too hard they are breathing too fast and they're breathing often upper chest and often true a minute. What this is doing is impairing circulation and oxygen delivered. Now you could say like at so to answer now would do take is is a super matinees. It's absolutely brilliant. But I also then started oxygen advantage by five years ago and I started oxygen advantage for this reason while for a number of reasons. But here's one of them. I brought together courses. I was giving courses back in two thousand ten because of the financial crash here in Ireland and people were. Were you know? A lot of stress was a lot of anxiety. And I started giving mindfulness courses which I've accused interest in mindfulness and I've always been following Passenger courses in reading up and a lot of my work would have been laughing at the spiritual aspect of as well as the the breathing and respiration however I often fat. Mindfulness wasn't sufficient and also we need to bring in functional breathing so I called it. The mindfulness matted why not bring in mindfulness but also bringing Buteiko and also bringing in sleep but I couldn't have noticed much. Ninety percent of the people who were attending females and we had very few male CEOS coming to the to the courses and I was wondering like may answered the ones that are most often than Nash that are stuffing with anxiety depression. But why wouldn't they turn up to a breathing course because it wasn't maybe it wasn't suited to the Alpha male tendencies and that's how oxygen advantage was born to some degree. Because I want to do a program for sports performance to increase concentration to increase resilience and to give different breathing techniques. And what what it gave me was a great freedom because Buteiko is beautiful. And who am I to change Buteiko because it was developed by a Russian doctor it's very very pure matted and I didn't want to deviate from that but what's agenda advantage. I start off from scratch and I could bring in the biomechanical aspects from Utech but I can also bring in the bio mechanical aspect. And I could also bring incoherent and cadence breathing. I could also bring in breakfasting. Intermittent type high poxy carpet company trend. And that's basically rectal exercises to kind of for sports performance but my point here is meditation is prescribed and often recommended for pupils. How can you meditate when your mind is in emotional turmoil and when I was talking to these youngsters coming in and we had three thousand people come in over twenty ten to twenty thirteen? I would always ask them. How many of you here have ever met in your life and it was. Maybe ten percent wasn't that high because a lot of them are newcomers and asked money of you still meditation and a completely dropped off and I think there's there's a message out there because it's not. Sometimes we think of the guy who has meditating the guy in the lowest position and destroyed back in. He's all the beads and he's got the robes not that's fine. Meditation is not how you watch. It's not what you do when you're in a former crashing but it's how you bring this into your everyday life. I had an agitated mind money. People have an agitated mind and if you were to look inside the heads of most individuals you will see that. Their minds isn't Arron estate of an emotional termite even though to have lovely white heat and present you with a smile and if you go to North America today everything is good. And how you doing and all of this stuff. But it doesn't tell you what's going on in their heads. Your Life is a meditation. We carry our Brentwood us. So what I wanted to do was to bring people's breathing attention onto the bretton their everyday life to get them out of the head but to do more than just get them out of their head. Increased blood flow to the brain increase. Oxygen delivered to the brand changed by mechanics breathing because the connection between the die from and the mind but also changed cadence of the Brett slowing down the breathing for practices. A five point. Five six permission to help improve Vega told by receptors are trade for your beigey response. You SINUS ARRHYTHMIA. So we're not shout breadth is something you carry chip and if you think of breathing don't just think of breathing in one dimension. When I was a beautiful instructor my silo was all about biochemistry and I didn't focus in the by mechanics and I didn't focus on the cadence of the breakfast do yoga instructor. They're often. They're silo is the by mechanics. They don't always love the the biochemistry and they don't look at the cadence of the Brett heart-rate very busy their luggage. Cadence coherence of breathing. But they don't up at the bio mechanics and don't up the biochemistry. We can't just think of breathing of dimension and in working with people anxiety and emotional termites and I have learned a lot over the years with working with these groups and oftentimes by making mistakes and people into a fear response by having them do brat toiling because people would panic disorder. You know some groups have very strong feeling towards the fear of suffocation and when I'm having people reduce that breathing volume of course we are generating Air Hong keep them. Tell them to keep going in terms of exposed or by Tehran which would be going but at times I was putting them into too much of a fight or flight response. And so you know you learn a lush and this is what experience an aging years down the road. I realized that I know something about breathing. But there's a lot I don't know and you know it's it's really one thing about the break but it's it's a wonderful thing to work. Wish I mean I think what was interesting is is one of these things that so easy toy. Look because everyone else. It delivers civil views. Just sitting there. What do you mean if someone said to you? Can you learn to move your arms up? Let me miles an expert in doing that severely replying to focusing in on something that we all take for granted an looking at the details on the way on this idea of do we a wheeled bowl and breathing perfectly and then we kind of get accident. Influences the dysfunctional patents. I'd say we wear at one point for breathing perfectly but we have to think of that. The breathing of the infant from day. One that's going to be coming from the breathing of the mutter and it's not that I'm here to put the emphasis on the mom Bush if you have a muttering estate of stress and they are breathing imperfectly. That may be disturbing gases. Could that impact the infant? That's a question I don't know. And we certainly know from craniofacial changes and I've seen it with my daughter that she was born with a very high narrow panish and that's not ideal because of course than the airways compromised. And if you have a small knows our patch more likely to moderate but infants are born breathing through the nose because the soft Polish at the back of the Moat and the EPA cloud is meat so in actual fact. An infant is an innate nasal breeder you know lifestyle factors have changed breathing so much food and lack of breastfeeding during infancy over vent over. He should houses are houses. Now got so much. Installation people may not be opened the windows and it lack of physical exercise talking talking is not good for breathing in terms of because when you talk it increases to respond to race and it increases the tide of finding which is the size of the Brett. This intern is causing over breathing. So people who talk for a living. They will often find that they are very tired at the end of today talking. That's not because of the mental concentration but that's because of the act of talking because they're breathing is harder than their metabolic needs. So you have to consider that when you breathe hard you're blowing off too much. Carbon Dioxide and talking is causing you to breath hard like when did our ancestors get up thousand years ago very few of our ancestors good up. Eight o'clock in the morning got into work worked in some office for some multinational company under stress talking on the phone all day long having to put up the competitive politics management with their open door policy. Saying that. We're looking after employees the calling employees associates and team members and order during his pitting and milking. And you know it's a really wonder about I think at sometimes. It's really a deception and it's a deception in many organizations. When I was a twenty year old I used to be jealous of the Guy I was the guy into SOC and they used to be jealous of the guy going into the big tall skyscraper going into the big six or Big Five accountancy firms. Want a wonderful job when I'm forty six and all I can say is thank God. I never had to work for one of those companies. I was in. You know I think the my only point I'm saying is it's distressed. It's put on people and you could ask to question. I don't want to go away from a book. You can ask a question here. Is it because I was in the corporate world and I didn't like it and I found a lot of stress the fat I had put stress employees under me as well. Because the monthly targets to me and people my managers of my level we were all pitted against each other. It was all dawn. You know so one handed. I just feel that it was just when I look back and also the profiling the company that I worked wish there was only about one person over thirty two years of age and the reason being is because they got guys and our twenty s they could pay them a low wage. Dinka put them under a lot of stress. Could mold them. They could melt them and when they burnt out they could get rid of them and could replace them would even younger guys so my point here is. I was in that position but was it. The job that was causing me distress or wasn't my reaction to the job. My resilience at the time wasn't good. My sleep wasn't good. My mind was already detained and after mind is agitated. This it doesn't take much of situation to put into that stress response Coming back to your question was do. We breed naturally perfectly. Yes and do we now breed naturally perfectly probably no? I think lifestyle has really gotten the way we are not. We are not living the way our ancestors live. Our faces are changing if you look at the work of professor. John meal from from London his son. Dr Mike Mulas is carrying on if you read the books. Nutrition and physical degeneration published back in the nineteen thirties in the shape of the human faces changing the airway is becoming compromised and as the airway becomes compromised those results in my breathing but my within poor breathing patterns. But we have to look at. I suppose during the genetic influence and breathing on persons but he panic disorder P. T. S. day that breathing impacted. It's not just exiled. Changes breathing patterns breathing patterns changing anxiety and in the literature. Eighty percent of people wit anxiety have breathing pattern disorders. We have to change Nash. So one of the reasons why was painted interview was the two reasons one. I knew we talked about this briefly before but just to fill the listeners. In the I've been a working with clients the many many years I would say since reading the book. The oxygen voltage. I just haven't been able to stop noticing people who I'm seeing with anxiety coming in and being a math breed the site conversations said to you like ninety percent of the People. I'm seeing you know it's eighty percent of the research but yet certainly seems very very high and It became more and more interesting to me that have commodity be looking at the way the mind is looking at this and then ignoring something which is so glaringly being presented so often so that was one thing and the other thing that led me to the book in the first place. Which is it's kind of a personal story which is all show people which was many many years ago I ended up having having a free test of the GP to check breathing. Function equals in To come and get the results you need to go in and see him and of course your mind salts wondering what is going on. Maybe Asmara. Maybe something else and he went well. There are some signs. He said with his concerned. Gp Face that awesome signs of Restrictive lung capacity. So of course. What did I do think the luggage will do? I went on Google really helpful. The only thing I could find With the phrase restrictive lung capacity was people took him out restrictive lung disease which talked about being fatal. And you can't take a deep breath them so I was told to consult on my the appointment three weeks time. So what would I do unconsciously or even consciously I would say to try and reassure myself that I was taking in Naples taking into Fox gin and I didn't have restrictive lung capacity will take a massive big deep breath. Said I'd really WANNA feel my lungs expanding and if I could feel expanding then I would not feel reassured. The of course my lungs wouldn't restrictive. So why did that For about three weeks but I noticed off the first few hours maybe even sooner only was beginning to struggle to feel like I could take a deep breath in it wasn't satiated and say we sought to say Shit. This really is a thing. I must really have the restrictive on capacity. So I'll tell you what I must do. In order to reassure myself. I'm definitely am okay. I should carry on doing even deeper breasts and so we'll have to live with the closer three weeks. Mother told me ended up at the consultant. I really struggling to shortness of breath. I really couldn't breeze a I was really convinced that I was about to. Dolly of restrictive lung disease On his Pretty Sutton and of course. The doctors just kept telling me a well challenge. It could be laity related. They said So just take some deep breaths. That was the only thing they could ever do will say to me and of course all the coming back. No wonder if ironically the consulting even said to me. He looked the Roman ruins. Gps sense and he said. I don't know why you've been set in. He's misread them. It will. You'RE SPIRO. Attributing zoff falling but at that point. I didn't feel fun because so I'm curious that I had this thing that I've seen thome does at Hunga. What would have been going on busy logically? Som Me while I think. I think it's very common that you know if we have a stressful event in our life. And you know it's a stressful event. That's been going on for say a number of weeks or months long term as opposed to short term as opposed to something that happened over few minutes or if we have perfectionist tendencies that we place high demands on ourselves and society puts a lot of pressure on us as well. You know all all ages in terms of and your a-levels you know getting a job getting house all of this stuff and that can impact her breathing. And if we get into a habit of persistently breathing a little bit faster and a little bit harder dot. Intern can change the biochemistry of the blood. Now the body. Dan Does want to normalize Ph but in the process the kidneys don't buy Kharbash so you have a reduced buffering capacity lower co two and. It's not everybody would exiled. He has lower co two but it is common that people would anxiety our genetic predisposition towards or even just perfectionist tendencies develop breathing pattern disorders and that breathing pattern disorder becomes habitual so even when distresses removed the breathing pattern sort remains and one of the symptoms of breathing pattern disorders. It's often common air hunger. So we are. Hunger is when one would have saved an increased sensitivity to the gas carbon dioxide. And you'll have a knock leash and they will typically have a well trained. Athlete will typically have a reduced sensitivity to the gas carbon Knox because carbon dioxide. That drives your breathing. So as carbon dioxide comes from the from the from the tissues into the blood as carbonated increase in the blood blood. Ph Drops in the brain reacts by sending a stimulus to breed. It's not oxygen. Drives her breathing. The but the body doesn't like it's the body doesn't breed to bring in oxygen. Yes in the process. Of course oxygen has brought in but the body breeds to get rid of excess co two but if we are overly sensitive to co two are carbon dioxide accumulation. I'm breathing this harder now. There are very simple exercise and actually go to a couple of them budget. I'm going to go to a history. There was adopted cloud lung from Popper Hospital in Cambridge back in the nineteen seventies and he was one of those physicians he was adjust physician. He was seeing Unin crime prevention and he started writing bash and he called it the Factfile Syndrome. He said you've got a group of patients are going from doctor to doctor. They are having a myriad of different symptoms an altered. They're having symptoms which is not just related to organ system and he said that these patients are going from doctor to doctor. Doctor Doctor Doctor. They're having these tests. The tests are coming back. Negative the the doctor. Dan thinks that the the patient in front of them as a hypochondriac because they have earned array of symptoms that are not related to each other and that the patient is often to to go home towards go home. Take a deep breakfast themselves. Day Dr Claude Code the Factfile Syndrome. Because he said that the thickness of the patient's file is a diagnostic. Clue of white or chronic ventilation syndrome is present on. He said the tip of the file gives us more information than the contents Darren. Now why was that not taken aboard by the medical profession because medical doctors? This is taken from a book code and behavioral and Psychological Approaches to breathing. Ring back in one thousand nine hundred four by two medical doctors. They asked a question. If hyperventilation syndrome is causing so much difficulties at their. Why hasn't it being embraced? Their conclusion was medical doctor. Said it wasn't dared demane that it was the domain of psychiatry. They handed the field of breathing hyperventilation syndrome to the psychiatrist. But two psychiatrists said it wasn't dared to Maine. They handed it back to the medical doctors and had fell between two stools. And you know even physiotherapy and physiotherapy of course is a wonderful modality but teaching die from Ati breathing but not teaching nose breathing. That's a mistake. You cannot achieve die fanatic abdominal breathing without breathing in and out through the nose. You know we have to consider that the airway is one airway it's unified airway. We have to think of the knows. We have to think of the lungs. We have to think of die from and asthma. One reason that it hasn't been embraced as well as because it takes time to work with clients and medical doctors don't have time. They're they are required to see four patients every hour and I know one medical doctor. We were like she's one of our own structures and we have a number of medical doctors on our board but the workload that they are put under like. How can you realistically assess somebody's breathing? You know in fifteen minutes and literally a don't have fifty minutes. I think her workload was seventy clients. Day was what she seventy patients. A day was what she had to say. She account just no way. It's not possible so as a result them it's turned every it's turned it into a prescription machine because of speed because of efficiency and and breathing is just one of those things could impart so many different benefits. Now I'M GONNA before I go off on a tangent I would say to people. Slowing breathing can be difficult enough for some people. Did the mind as education as I said before you know meditation is often prescribed. But how can you meditate? If your mind is a mess literally so I would say the best way to do that. To do. Small toads it has a calming effect in the mind and an exercise that you could do or anybody could be doing that. Has No side effects is take a normal breath in and out through the nose and the holder knows and count to five says number breath. Dan Number breath at five four. Three two one let go. I'm breed norm for ten seconds. So now breathe Norma for ten seconds. This seems such a simple exercise and again taken over breath in and out trio knows whole. Gino's five four three two one. Let go but breathe in ambery norm for ten seconds so you just breathing normal for ten seconds and again taken over breath in and out and hold five four three two one let go to breathe in and breathe normally for ten seconds and again taken over by in and out and hold five four three two one case. That's one exercise that can be very useful when people are stressed. Because you know hold your breath The mind desiging aged as opposed to just trying to focus on your breathing because you focus on your breath your mind goes off. You're focusing on your bed. Your mind gets out goes off you get frustrated and then you give it up whereas you can come down the central nervous system and all you're doing is and it's interesting there. You've taken up so mucus and the reason being is because Hydra taken over by the international hold and as you how'd your breath carbon dioxide increases in the blood a little but nitric. Oxide accumulates in the nasal cavity. And when you laco. You're carrying that nitric oxide into your lungs. The nitric oxide doesn't Bronco Donator Tabs. Open the airways so if there was a little bit of mucus trapped in the lungs it can bring up so I just give you a couple of minutes in the biochemistry to sell if you sit back into the sack chest. One hundred zero bugger. Naval doesn't matter how do you know just I give you a very simple instruction and what I want to just chew it into your breathing patterns feeling Brad coming in. There's your breath out. There's your breath coming into the body and there's your breath leaving the body dish breath coming into the body and there's your breath leaving the body. I would like to do is slow down the speed of your bring Ben Okay. So there's your brats scenario Brenton really slow to a certain shouldn't see as much movement and a really relaxed and slow prolonged explanation having a relaxes slow prolonged the nation and then take a very soft and slow breath in a very soft and slow breath in very soft and slow and a prolonged. Relax sex elation and the whole objective is to breathe by thirty percent less air into your body. You know that you were doing correctly when you feel their hunger. This is the biochemistry aspect of breathing. Not Concentrating to die from. I'm only concentrating on reducing the volume of breathing reducing the minute ventilation to allow carbon dioxide to accumulate in the blood to generate a feeling of air hunger. Keep practicing that just for about thirty seconds or so now. When people would panic disorder practice dot sometimes a concept into a firefight response because they have an aversion of suffocation. This is where we have to go very gentle with them. I want to give the Matisse Spoon of disaffiliation to deconditioning their body towards that feeling of suffocation but I don't want to put them into that firefight and it's a tremendous approach because you know when you slow down your breathing like Dash. Generally you will find. What in three to four minutes. You've got increased Walrus. Live in the Max your hand getting warmer and you feel drowsy so it's great exercise to do before sleep but the Air Hunger. We have to be careful which another aspect that we looked at. Dennis to buy mechanic so if you sit back into the chair I put your hands either side of your lower to rips. So you have your side have your hands either side of your lower two ribs and as you breathe in that your ribs are just gently moving out as you breathe at. Your ribs are gently moving and as you breathe in your Ribs Agenda Moving Act and as you breathe at your ribs gently moving so as you breathe in your lower ribs or gently moving out and as you breathe at your lower abs or gently moving to breathe life with this so you can breathe. This is a deep Braxton. The true sense of the word use should never hear a deep Brett. Deep Breakfast means that you are breathing low so because we want to maintain the biochemistry and the by mechanics and now what I'm GonNa do is as you do that. Bring in cadence breathing and going to simply just have your breathing for five seconds and breathe for five seconds. So I'm just GonNa time here so you're breathing in two three four five four five hours in two three four five three four five pause in two three four five out three four five pause in two three four five at three four five pause in two three four five out three four five pause so that there is simple cadence breathing. You're breathing in for five seconds. You're breathing for five seconds if you look at the research on cadence breathing in terms of influencing the autonomic nervous system the functioning of the body. That's normally outside of control. We have to think of two branches. The power sympathetic branch which is responsible for rest and digest and the sympathetic branch which is responsible are regarded as fight or flight. And even looking polly Vega Terry. But we want to do is we want to achieve a balance between the power sympathetic and sympathetic response on by practicing five at six percent. Sorry six Installation for five seconds exultation for five seconds or in relation for four seconds explanation for six seconds it brings about a balance between the par sympathetic and the sympathetic nervous system. It's it's amazing. The research that has been done in terms of cadence breathing and coherence. Hartwig freighter Benxi and you know stimulating. Vegas narrow of improving out of your ventilation and conditions that are associated anxiety has been looked at post traumatic stress sleep depression. That's just an indication of the Bradfo I would say to people is. Don't just focus on breathing in for five and act for five seconds. If you were doing it do it for a slow. So in other words think of the balance between the biochemistry by mechanics indicate and some breathing you want to focus on one dimension and sacrificed. You're too that's what normally happens breathing and I'll come back to this nose. Breathing is absolutely the foundation of all three dimensions because your nose slows down your breathing to allow oxygen transfer to take place more ready from the lungs into the blood. Nasal breathing imposes resistance to your breathing to have a more normal carbon dioxide. Yes you can still breed too hard breathing through the nose. You can have fast upper chest breathing breathing through the nose but you're less likely mouth. Breathing is the worst thing that we can do. Nobody should wake up in a dry Mac in the morning. If you have your might open in the morning you know if you have your Matt Open during sleep your sleep. Quality is not as good as it should be so I think. Yeah it's just simple term and I would love to see this getting out. There in terms of people would excited because some even if they just practised at it will cost absolutely nothing and and put it into practice now. Of course you can go deeper and I've only wants to give you a snapshot of Dash but for people to start doing that at least check to the half. The Matt Open are deciding Because sl every few minutes is not A. It's not a good idea sign. It can suggests that the person you know they have air hunger that they are feeling that they are not getting a air. And how do you address that air hunger while nasal all the time do all of your physical exercise? Which closed even if you go for a run. Initially it's tougher. But if you expose your body to a little bit of air hunger by eater slowing down and reducing breathing volume are going for a walk with your Matt closed. Are Running with your Matt closed if you can do wish dot and turned than we're quite near breathing and your breathing becomes naturally slower and die for matic. The air hunger reduces so what we want to do. Is You know you think of panic disorder. Years ago people used to say what if you're having a panic attack breathing out of a bike? The whole purpose of the by not bringing oxygen but it was to trap the carbon dioxide that was coming from the lungs into the bag to rebrith that carbon dioxide back into the lungs to increase it in the bloods because as carbon dioxide increases in the blood blood flow to the brain increases across at archery. Stylish and this is a calming affected. The brain the brain fields air hunger when it's not getting enough oxygen and a panic attack when I look at the people the breathing of people who are prone to panic disorder. These people are teetering on the brink of symptoms. It's not the crowded place. That'S THE PROBLEM. It's not the supermarket. It's not the the driving the car. The problem is they're everyday breathing is not rush that they have a habit. And that's all it is. It is a habit of persistently over breathing. I'm breathing incorrectly. Which can be changed. I'm by doing that. You Improve Your resilience when you do go into a crowded place you are beverly but to cope with it but I have to say yes. Sorry I'm just GonNa face place when I talk to a group of individuals who work with mental health. I spoke about Debenham of functional breathing. And I said it's I said cognitive behavioral therapy is absolutely wonderful which it is but I said to them I said it's not addressing respond to physiology and nobody wanted to hear what I was saying because they fat Dash I was saying that communism behavioral therapy wasn't good enough. Which wasn't and that. I was saying that you know people fat that the healthcare professionals that I was talking to because I couldn't get over it like I was running through my mind afterwards. I'm saying now I know why. Breathing hasn't got into healthcare and it hasn't been embraced in in psychotherapy because the individuals that I spoke to that day they couldn't accept dash. You know. Breathing does play a role. And that's why I would say to you know any of your listeners. You're probably wondering. Why is this so good? I haven't been told about it. We have to consider human nature. Here we are all resistant to change in. Oh if if I'm practicing something for twenty years as I was doing reputational. I was resistant to moving outside of beautiful. It was only when I did. Oxygen advantage that that kind of open up that door so I think it's a very in Asia I think it's enormous trade of the human being. We are slow to embrace our to adopt a change. Some people do but the majority of people are not resistant but I would say to the listeners. Give this a go. You know because you will generally feel the difference in two weeks and even if you were to just sit back into a chair have your lips together just but one hundred your chest one hand just above your Navel Choon into your breathing and gently slow it down and gently slow it down to the point of a little air hunger so deliberately reduced the amount of air coming into your body do it for a miniature to see how it feels if it's comfortable and continue for three minutes if it gets a bit stressful take rest than start again. Can you influence your blood circulation by slowing down your breathing? If you start to feel your hands getting warmer you know that you're on the right track and it's not just that you're increasing blood flow to your hands. You're also increasing votes brand. Sorry Howard could across through the night something fun I was GonNa say Just briefly straight it when you have people seek people who coming with anxiety that a traditional therapeutic therapists psycho therapist counselors who all essentially centrally pseudo being the very over-simplifying breathing strategies to people And just getting to take deep breaths and then doing the and so will end do you. Don't just sit in the whole goodness me. And that's keeping them trapped essentially. Yeah I would agree on. It's not offering any benefits you know even would like it does feel satisfied to take that big. Brett because you're stretching everything and you're releasing ish but it can disrupt the biochemistry and data's the issue I suppose I realized gone back. Maybe fifteen years ago that not everybody wants to hear our wants to hear on a different approach. But why did that? That's why I wrote so many books because I can put out the information that you know. Nobody's think about covert at the moment nitric oxide. There's pinnacle tries nitric oxide for covert nineteen in two thousand and five krona virus which was SARS grown viruses. A family of course this is a different strain but the SARS virus back. In Two thousand five laboratory experiments showed that nitric oxide inhibited. The replication of the cycle Dino's as a source of nitric. Oxide just cynical tries if you put in chemical tries nitric oxide you say you will see the doors. Clinical trials now on nitric oxide is a treatment of the current Cova Nineteen. But nobody's talking about nose breathing so I wanted to get information out there and I did. I just did a Webinar two weeks ago unquote at nineteen and it was oversubscribed. I didn't realize zoom. You can only have one hundred people and people were disappointed to wants to hear to open it up on. Youtube and I put it up. It's after having a half million juice and all it did was go to exercise and talk about. What can you do here? So this is the beauty about getting the information to the general public. Having people putting it into practice you will never like auto at say. Is it would breathing. Don't think that don't have it in your mind and it's good to be taken does hired big Brett's because it's not going to increase oxygen and just ask yourself. How do you feel you're feeling lightheaded? It's not a good son now. I understand what hollow tropic breathing? It's a deliberate hyperventilation for a period of time as a stressor to deal with trauma. That's fine it's short term. But it's not how we should be breathing all the time I'm concerned. But how is the person breathing whom they walk down the stretch Howard breathing Dr Truecar Howard a breathing? They are sleep Howard. A breathing. Negoti distress dots the breathing that we need to be looking at so there is a time that people will be practicing hyperventilation after during the technique etc. I don't teach hyperventilation. I'm trying to address dysfunctional breathing patterns. So I was GonNa ask you about the with the with the impulse method because officer people have been using it the is and I think there was an idea one point that he had some special sort of genetic disposition to be able to stay under the Wolves. Redo with these things. Because course he's used his framework to be able to teach other people to do successfully to now switch so even though you don't teach it. Does that fly in the face of some of these things that you're talking about or is easily explicable. Within the methodology coming from a like in terms of in terms of the science with the vim half technique gone can look at his agok. A one paper that was published by Matteis cops and I think it was published in twenty fourteen and still up to the terms of bill. Oxygen Saturation didn't increase during the hyperventilation during the retention which was the breadth tolling bill. Oxygen Saturation really dropped quite remarkably to mount everest. 'em standards you know to lower your back down to forty. Fifty percent is incredible really and did the individuals doing them half were able to stood ash. They're carbon dioxide levels dropped and didn't return back to baseline and really what the locked at the deadlock that the impact of the hyperventilation it's thirty brats followed by a Bret told that breath in hold for ten seconds. Thirty thirty hyperventilation big brexit again Within for ten seconds etc they looked at the increase of epinephrine as a result. So what it did. Was that the technique the breathing technique. It's stressed at the body which increased happen Afri- distress in the in the body which caused the body to make adaptations. So I think it's an interesting. It's an interesting model interesting breathing technique. I'm not sure if I would if I was teaching the technique I'm I wouldn't teach it every two comes into me into my door because I think some will it will suit so and I think it won't sue daughters and it was like me working with responding panic disorder. I taught. I could use the same technique. Would all people coming in? I would see some people that could cope quite well but air hunger and other people the it was scaring the life out of them so I had to change all of these exercises and this is what experienced it so you know we. We have to bear in mind that different subsets innings is in panic disorder and we shouldn't be tailoring the approach to these individuals. But this is what experience does. That's what I learned through. Experience can still part Dash. We impart that onto her own. Instructors like say to them. You Know The mistakes that I've learned over the years. I'm hoping that you don't have to make these mistakes because it can take. You wanted to figure out what's going on here. You're seeing this student in front view on instead of making them feel calm. You're making them have the opposite effect and the issue is that. Don't come back to you the next time because you know they think they're making your worse whereas I've learnt dash and this way then I can prepared to student but I can also prepare the instructor so a lot of people. Now that we trained we trained a lot of healthcare instructors providers and this is great. I think breathing now is becoming hotter is becoming better well known and I have to take them technique for part of that because it is really the breath out there. It's not a part of Western poacher. Western culture is to be doing something to be achieving to be constantly going Western culture. Is You know the the guy who sits in the corner bringing his attention or her attention in words is considered maybe Dahshur but one of the best things that we could ever do in life is take attention out of the mind onto the bread into the body in terms of concentration in terms of well being in terms of happiness in terms of bringing a stillness to the mind because the chattering mind. How do you quite into traffic mind? Well I would say we have to change breathing physiology. There is a connection between the die from Andy Emotions. If you're breathing fast. Upper chest breathing. You're going to have an increase shopping. Mind look and Google Stanford medical school slow breathing so stanford medical school slow breathing. In March of twenty seventeen day identified a new structure in the brain and Locus Kerala. And they said that. This structure first identified it in mice. They sent it. This structure is spying on your breathing. And if you break fast destruction the brain is relaying signals of education to the rest of the brain and if you breathe slowly. Destruction the brain when relay signals of Cam to the rest of the brain so true out our evolution the only times that we ever got into a state of fast rapid upper chest breathing was in times of emergency and stress. Now if we are breathing that way all of the time it's telling the body it's in a state of emergency and stress. So I forget the point that I was going to make. That was off one time. But yeah it's it's yeah it's coming coming back to just embracing it from a number of different perspectives and looking at the potential of the brand product. Pongy we've talked a bit about anxiety where he focused on that. But of course you mentioned in some of the books that you told you that wouldn't he would ask Visit nonsense issues. It so what you use it for in terms of tracing conditions justice for all the stuff as well as the main conditions that work with with breathing is is sleep insomnia snoring obstructive sleep apnea for example. Somebody who is snoring or somebody's having obstructive sleep apnea. It's more likely than they are. Mouth breathing hard breathing fast breathing because this is increasing the turbulence in the airway diseases causing resistance to breathing if you breathe hard. You're more likely to snore. If you read lightened slow your breathing. A soft and just not as much resistance and also the negative pressure. Your Airways less likely to collapse. If you're breathing his life. We have to bear in mind that how bridging the day determines how during physical exercise. And how we drink sleep so disorder. Breathing is by thirty percent. Awesome as about twenty percent thirty percent. Because of course if you breathe through your nose your nose exhibits a protective mechanism for lungs. Your nose warms moistens regulates volume but also nitric oxide by breathing. Truth in those nitric oxide. Sterilizes the air redistributes the bud threat lungs and nitric oxide by redistributing the blood TRAYVON's increases the pressure of oxygen in the blood so the Po to this was discovered back in nineteen eighty eight the Po to in the blood increased by ten percent with continuous nose. Breathing versus mark. Brayden like an you know even despite this despite the BOHR effect in nineteen zero four despite this recognition in nineteen eighty under some tremendous doctors. Writing about one is in the air knows intro doctor from New Zealand contractor James Barclay. And he's written some great stuff. Finish your doctor. Claude from hat papered hospital in Anchorage in the seventies Super Timmons late. You know there are doctors writing more and more out of about this but I would love to see getting into the mains into the hands of the general public children. You know we have children coming in. We've put our our free completely free. All of the exercise for kids a completely free online and we put them up in Youtube. All of the exercises so I wanted children. Children shouldn't be you know that there shouldn't be a reason. Why on each ear Child regardless of where they are in the world that kind of practice breathing exercise to have their hat so because sometimes I was thinking about kids might be able to afford it but with if they now have access to the Internet. They can just do. It is such a strange. We've twenty clinical trials. Asthma and I've been involved but five of them co over the last two of them there in children we showed really good improvements in terms of sleep and asthma in children by getting them to breathe through the nose. And you know. I think it's remarkable that we are making some inroads there so yeah come to make a chart. Asthma sleep anxiety children and athletic performance. Those are demand fields that Bush. And I think that comes across as until conceived as a feeling at which I had as I read some of your voltage was just kind of share like y all people more people knowing about this this site but research is so much. Ns useful stuff and and saw that is not even complicated or difficult to mattis. Now why is it not being that? I mean going back to that story of me being the spiritual consultant in and him to say well. You know it's probably just anxiety. Just take debretts announced these people whose job it is to see people who are struggling with breath day in day out. And it's not even on yourself. I think it's too simple like you can also ask the question. Why weren't we taught about stillness of the mind and school and you know we were. We were taught to think we were trained. How to analyze to decipher to reason to break information into tiny pieces. The mind was developed into a thinking tool. We were trained. How to think but we were not trained how to stop thinking and that's simple even though it can be challenging bringing our attention into the present moment taking our attention onto the Brett you know bringing our attention into the body awareness you know it's simple am and but look at the potential know like how is somebody who normally presents How is that addressed? Is it often using maybe prescribed medication? And if you look at some of the clinical trials and dash that the prescribe medications often don't even perform better than the placebo effect. You know so like I suppose I. I've often wondered why I as a kid why I wasn't taught today's debate. I often wonder why people would sleep disorders. They are not taught. Today's liberate people would ask Meyer. Dana talked to nasal bridge because people would ask a typically breed open mad faster and harder Britain which is feeding their condition. But it's just that the Brett. It's not seen as being sexy. It's not you know if you're doing. A clinical trial is a medical doctor. You don't want to do clinical China breathing because it's not good for your ego. There's no you get no respect out of that. You know your colleagues even despite you have great medical doctors who are interested in breathing but the colleagues to do them. You should be doing research on stem salads. You should be doing research than latest. You know the latest thing that the best thing that's out there in terms of scientific progress how breathing but despite its ash breathing is so simple. We should never overlook the intelligence of the human body. We have a great function there. We lost when I just for few minutes. It's really vitally important. That we we give it to consideration so if people listening to this and nothing kidding okay. Just they'll send what I gotta look into when they go and how can get in touch with you to find out more. And they could. If they're interested in terms of anxiety and panic disorder and depression. I would say to go to Buteiko. Clinic DOT COM. That's B. U. T. E. Y. K. O. Finnick DOT COM. I also wrote a book ten years ago on this. It's called anxiety free and it brings together. Mindfulness with the beauty commented on if people are interested in sports performance oxygen advantage dot com so oxygen advantage dot com on about performance concentration resilience. I'M BEAUTIFUL CLINIC DOT COM. You know different tents and two shoes and you mentioned that you recorded the youtube that a access people could do during the nineteen that just a date. This compensation that swear is now Drills the debate that we're having this conversation says the U. K. is currently in lockdown. It's the hunks of the corona at that pandemic. Would you be to Shat? Only the podcast page linked to that VIDEO NAPA National Schmidt. Five to all of those exercises would be helpful for the mind because it couvert nineteen. If people have responded to a distress I have to go very easy and of course if people have emotional distress I have to go easy so the exercise in terms of small battles gentle slow breathing light breathing in actual fact. That could be a great place. That's forty minutes so not only. Could it help if you have responded to distress but it will also help if you have emotional distress and I would also say to people does if you wake up. Dr Act in the morning stopped looking at getting your Matt closed during sleep. It's very very important. It was one of the best things that I did in terms of waking up fit and refreshed and remember as being a youngster in school. You know if you don't have the if you don't have a good night's sleep. It's very difficult to concentration that I would be looking at page and above but my attention wasn't there because my attention was stuck in my head and I think it's all it's all interconnected so we need to get you know we can't just look at Tab. You know breathing by itself but I would say definitely. Breathing is Bryant. Put the focus on but we have to take into consideration consideration emotions and sleep after. This has been so fascinating. Thank you so much time out of your busy schedule to To Talk to me into chef some of these souls I really really really hyped all the people listening and look into this in more detail and stop playing around with it. Not just full themselves but also looking brought up How the people looking more functionally not just The psychological stuff around looking at nap breathing in the impact of that six. I thank you. Is there anything you'd like to add share with the audience that I have not directly. I'm going to twenty minute relaxation. Mp Three five that put the I'll give you the link and it's deceit that that's found in the buck anxiety-free and people got a lot of benefit from it. And so you could listen to this before we go to sleep or whatever I sometimes this to myself. So it's relaxation bringing together relaxed breathing exercises just to allow you just to take some time. Ask Give give yourself arrest. Take a holiday from the mind untested. Thank you so much Patrick. Brea Prochet Guitar Time Today. I hope you enjoyed this episode and if you did one not share it with anyone you think might be interested uneven head over to itunes to give us a glowing review. You'll find more about what's coming up on our facebook page. Facebook DOT COM forward slash? Rapid Change Matters Hyphen podcast. And of course we'll find all the links relate to this episode plus those upcoming live events that will help you hone those change work skills.