Storyteller Conclave Episode 8 Creating Dynamic Characters
You're listening to the podcast, Detroit. Visit WWW dot casting Troy dot com before information. Friends wall, complete episode eight of storyteller conclave cessation about helping you run the very best tabletop role playing game that you can, whether you're new storyteller. Or dungeon master learning the craft or you're an experienced tiller looking to take your game to the next level. I am Sarah, and I'm rob. We've got a few news. Updates again and nothing exciting. But our patriot is live. So you can easily show your support and people have, and we love them. We love our supporters. You guys are fantastic. Please if you guys have ideas of what we can do four patriot. Let us know. I mean, literally just send us some ideas, please. Also, we know that the site podcast trait does have a listen live issue. If you're listening live, you are using the app, and you're doing it, right. We did get another update from the engineering staff here. And apparently we've boggled their minds with what the problem is. So hopefully. They're gonna take care of that real soon. Like, hopefully, the, the people set up the streaming service, I've no idea what is broken. And are they're like, oh, that should fixed it. Nope. No, so and it's not just affecting us. It's affecting everybody. I mean, what, what I wanna did they try turning off and back on again. I'm gonna turn it on. And walkaway. Right. Walkaway unplugging plug it back in. That's right. Aright so, yeah. Out of nowhere. We decided we were going to do a show about creating dynamic characters. Do didn't we go over this? I mean when, when you creating dynamic PC's basically, all of the rules for creating dynamic NPC's kind of apply episode three so upset. Three. We already did a ups owed on this. So tired. Let's do her up this. Yeah. All right. Just go to episode three and you'll get all this information. We'd like to thank our supporters from patriot and get them recognize we we'd like to thank our music from glee, frog. And we can we always what? All right, buddy. All right. All right. We'll we'll do this. We'll we'll do this. We gotta do an episode. Okay. All right. We can't just dump them like that. Where do you wanna start? Well. At the beginning character generation beginning or like before. No, seriously. I'm you need paper and pencils and sometimes dice. I mean maybe maybe actually a little bit before that. Okay. Because I think when you're creating PC's at, you know, for for game you know, y'all have to start in that kind of conceptual phase, you know, Tempus story that you wanted to, you wanna tell you got your players in a previous previous episode. Yeah. But if you've listened to our previous episodes you've gotten this far in, you know what you're fucking doing. You've gone this far. But now you players need characters to play in your games. So I think, you know, the first place to start is having a, a conversation with your players and kind really the whole care to creation process for the underlying rule. I think to, to everything that we are about to talk about is that the creation process needs to be a collaboration between players and the story. I agree with that. I think the I mean let's let's be really more simple. That is about communication apps. I think every game that I've ever played. It's only gotten better when there's better communication between the storyteller and the players like whether it's e mailing constantly, whether it's, you know, how the new stuff using a discord channel to kind of throw ideas back and forth and get those things going get concepts and pictures and, and ideas and sometimes tropes, even around, like just to get an idea of the setting and everything, I think that gets everybody's juices flowing, so communication collaboration key. Absolutely absolutely opened the. So I think that the first incursion before you even get to characters is discussing what the ground rules for making those characters right? Okay. I'm gonna stop you. How do you feel about pre Johns? I, I know I've set that against you in one of my games. How did how did that make you feel do think it was worth it? So my whole attitude towards Prejean characters is much like a five year old being told to take their medicine going to kick. I'm going to scream. I'm going to say it's yucky, and then I'm gonna take it and then I'm gonna feel real good a real real good about it afterwards fair. Okay, because I already know my in my mind the pros and cons. What do you think the pros and cons are unregarded to this? Let's just be narrows. We can't hurt. So the pros definitely of this Tila, creating the, the Carter is in handing them out to everybody in the group gives you the ability to create characters that, you know, will fit well within your story. Right. And especially if they're. Are certain archetypes that you want played out on the you can you can easily do that. The obvious downside is, though, is that it does put some limits on the imagination of your players from standpoint of maybe they had an idea of what a character should be. And you just handed them something else. Maybe there was a certain class, or certain ability. They were looking to explore. And now they've got different strictures on their on their character expression. I agree with that. I think it was for like my seven. See game full characters because I didn't flush out everything. I didn't flush out the backgrounds as much I didn't give in spend all the points I gave you guys points to spend as well. I just gave you a good basic outline of what your character knows going into this. Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. And it's it's worth with while keeping line that appreciate characters just a starting point. Right. Where even if you hadn't given me those points like you would is it like sixty percent of the character was done, and then you basically love you at last thirty forty percent off and said, fill in some blanks where you. Right to kind of customize your character. But the but the core of that character's done for you. So I mean that, that's one way you can take it. Even if you are handing full characters though, it's, it's a starting point bright. And I think that kind of lends to a, a sub level of that, which is where you say only like, I, I need this to be a certain way like your game that you're running for me where you saying you needed. Either be part of the fighters gold are part of the major skill. That's it. That, that that's that's where I'm framing. It's lightly ISM frame. You don't end at work. I don't care how you got there, but Yep. Four fifteen of the third era. You will be a member of the fighters Gill, or a member of the major guild yet, period. And that's I mean, the same thing to be said for like any other games. Like, hey, you're all musketeers whether you just started whether you've been doing it for forty years, or whether you're somewhere in between, you know, like maybe year, laid off a little bit. But you're still work at your still musketeer yet. Like, that's how you guys are all connected, absolute. I guess then. Okay. The the, you have the kick down the door of anything. Well, there's one there's one more level of restriction this. And that is, you can create anything but we're gonna put some restrictions on the sources. You can use to do so only players handbook only players, handbook or only official supplements, like no. You know, the Gardini has looking open source sort of thing called on earth are Kana, which is all test material Ville, the Rodham like that. Yeah. And, you know, there are still several iterations that sort of stuff coming out in a lot of straight tells you be uncomfortable with using that sort of thing. So typically, I think you can also use that for like blocking off the broken crap that happens. And I think most people who run just kind of casualty indie games. Use either either the one we were just talking about where you have to have certain things in your backstory to fit in campaign or this one where it's just like, look, I don't care, whatever you guys going to be a generic adventuring group. But I don't want, you know any Phoenix nights from the, you know, unofficial supplement that came out what you don't want to play a as a humanoid t Rex with a telling of eighteen. I am three colds and a trenchcoat. Honestly, great idea. But then you've got the sky's the limit which, you know where it's you can do anything. And I think you've got to know the system as you can't do that as a new storyteller. Oh, sure. Sure. Sure. 'cause you're not gonna know. What's, you know what's good? And what's, what's broken? And what's not? Yeah. So and, and honestly for my, my advice for, for new storytellers on this would be to put more restrictions not less restriction. I agree. Shit. Can get out of hand real quick to say no? Don't be afraid to say. No, but you can also do the yes. And that works just as well. Yes. And but you're crippled. You know you can't do these things. Right. And like we said he has to be a collaboration between the player in the storyteller. Have that discussion. Okay. What are your thoughts? What are you what are you thinking about creating this game? And how can I as a stray tiller help you create what you want? Yeah. You want your care to be palm Wadi from from, from dune. All right. How do we do that in seventy exactly? Exactly. All right. Now, I know we put in here in the shown, as we said the character questions I think we kind of I will say, we covered this in three and there are literally so many resources out there for asking her to questions like, who is your dad? Where did you grow up, who is, she had the things like that? Exactly. So I think go kit Bashar own questions. Pulled them right out of the book but it's, it's a way to help flush. But I think moving on from this to some of this talked about, I think, is really going to help bring us back to that where that's going to be kind of the finishing move. But like you would brought up that people are people PC's people. Right. So they're gonna be flawed. They're going to be quirky. They're going to be confused. They're gonna be driven or passionate about something. You know what quirks, can they have who did a alternately hate? I think like are. DND's ranger class for the longest time had you had a hated race. And that's still kind of thing around you. Right. So, like I don't think that's much core is a benefit, but I think it can be a cork if you help it. Yeah, I, I mean, I think in early editions it was it was hated race. I think now it's just like preferred race is like I don't have anything against, you know, colds, I just happen to know a lot about them right grew up around them and exactly it doesn't mean you're gonna cut them down. But you are quite good at it. If you had to right, right. I've been hunting kobylt since I was this, you know. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm an elf. But I grew up with half leans, the really, awesome people into everything about them in our so. But I think like corks themselves are fun. And I think they can be really neat stuff. That doesn't have anything necessarily to do with gameplay directly. Yeah. Absolutely. But I am we talked about a whole bunch of these things. Like I like how you thought of superstitions. Superstitious is a great quirk. I think that, you know in before crossing river during a prayer. I thought that was really glad saw that your notes. Like I actually really liked that one or like sleeping with teddy bear. Yeah, is a perfect one, because it sent superstition, but it's, but it's, it's a it's a sentimentality ignorance act. It's an emotional bond. Yeah. And one of the things that came up recently because we were talking with one of our with actually medoff about a mouse guard and in mouse guard. They have kind of a quirk but not. But I think it fits a little bit in here. I wish I could from what it was called. Yeah. I know he's going to yell at us. Chilly. But so bring it up mad at medoff. It's a good idea. And that is like, what your character is known to do. Like what's their what's like a trip that they have? And like one thing that they listed in the book was I always draw my sword at danger at the sign of danger, and I'm like, okay, that's seems pretty straightforward like you know what to expect like. Oh my God. Something jumped up just jumped out of the woods, and his growling, shink sorts out like without question. Whether or not it's a good idea or a bad idea. You just did it. Yep. You know, or like I always protect the innocent now that's a little biggest but at the same time, like you've gotta make up snap decision on who's innocent in the situation. Yeah. And then that drives you, but I think just like the other pieces, it helps define who you are. And what your what your first instinct of actions going to be in those things. But because you're making that statement and it is a statement like you said, it's very clearly statement you're saying this is something that is my character. Her and in those situations, this is how I react. But it also says that, that's a situation that you're focusing on. Absolutely. You know, like I will protect all books like, oh books are sacred plan and the great thing. The great thing statements like that is that first off. They define a set of action. So obviously, if books are endanger. Well now you are prone to put yourself into that situation. Whether whether that's a wise idea or not, it is. Now a situation, you feel your character feels they need to interject themselves into but second off things like this are great jumping off points for writing other parts of your history. Oh, totally why what is your character? Got with books. Father was a librarian Oko about your father's. Yeah, leinen. Tell me about your phone. So I, I think that the three the three main things I would suggest every PC come up with. Right. Is a quirk a flaw and a an attachment of some sort now, you're not talking flaws in the sense of like a mechanical flaw. Like, I'm I am like I instantly harmed by cold iron. No, no, no. No, no. Yeah. In, and that's, that's the thing is, I'm thinking, more personality flaws. I don't drink tea. Signally. Staircase, Sarah, speaking here. Okay. A bit of a control freak. I will quietly agree without quietly. I will quietly. Don't, don't get. You're not gonna tell me anything I have already told my therapist sister, but I'm bit of a control freak. And it agitates me when I'm when I feel out of control of a situation, a but that's, that's a character flaw of mine. That is something I have to work through, and it something where if, if it does, come up, it's, it's not like a like if I had to quantify myself as a player character like I don't know that that's anything that would have a gain aspect, too. But it would certainly be something that guided my role play. So let's, let's talk about it in the sense of character like one of the things that I liked about that we both agreed on their two different systems, but they have very similar flaw in them. Seventy calls at accuse vampire calls them disadvantages. No, no, no. I think you're thinking of fate, fate our fate has asked aspects and in seven see, it's, it's a star-crossed basically that person always falls in love. Oh, sometimes for the wrong person. So as a flaw that one was vampire. That's true love and listed as a merit a flaw. I think that's a flaw, right? But that's that you're talking about fate, and it was funny. We were sitting at dinner and Sarah, grabs this Pat of butter like the little like cups of butter, and she's got her figure, she slides it over to me. And she goes, you know, as your character, there's a hot chick in the room. You can you can take that he and take that 'cause because if you take it, you get this little bonus, and that's basically, how seven c does it gives you a drama, and you can use that drama die in any role and things like that. And that's how does it with points? But if you don't take the Pat of butter, you gotta spend something to avoid void not to compulsion on that. And sometimes it's hard for people to say, okay, well. I kinda understand that. And I think we were talking about as a social aspect, and just is a cultural thing geeks have pretension for hearing me Mlikh things and running with them, and we have to sometimes stop that compulsion in bad situations. Case in point, I think all of us even Kate in this room can remember moment time, when we were sitting there having a conversation at somebody. I don't know maybe said something that had to do with wood. Okay, so there and that's what it is, is. That's our natural compulsion for the seventeen year old part of our brain to kick out and start blasting or make a joke about it. I'm five I'll minute. That's fine. That's fine. The whole thing that's the and that's exactly the reaction we usually have is myself. My inner seventeen year old took over. Right. So you took the little Chit. And now you have that, but the compulsion hit you. It happens shit. See exactly exactly. But there are times what it is solely inappropriate. Like the executive your company said. You know, we are going to sell much hard wood as we possibly can do will sell the most would and you have to sit there and go. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. And that's that's when you're fighting it, and that's a flaw that is that something we all recognize and that's an easy way to quantify it today's standards. I think so. Yeah. Characters have flaws but, but I think it's also important to have like little flaws to agree, the little plus that are that are like quirk level flaws. You know, sure not anything that's going to be necessarily compelled by the storyteller, but lake things that you just kind of roll in, because there's a great line that I love is beer because. No interesting story ever started with a salad that sounds like a challenge, because look, all interesting stories take place because somebody must something up. Okay. Yeah. Han flicked and conflict resolution is the essence of storytelling. And if you don't, if nobody messes up, nobody crosses a line somewhere along the way. Then you're not going to conflict. Yeah. You don't have any story to perfect people are boring people. Yep. Okay. And there are immoral to of different people out there and we're all interacting different ways. And it's you know who who do you wanna play do you wanna play the character? It gets everything. Right. Or do you wanna get the character has a struggle a little bit? Right. Who has to earn their victories, who has a character arc that takes them through maybe resolving past trauma, or a vengeance a slain, relative or something like that. Or some, you know that, that admittedly, they may not be dealing with two. Well, you know, I mean grief grief is a powerful powerful thing and common in historic common. Yeah. And people don't make the wisest decisions when they're depressed maybe your Kurtzer has a substance abuse problem. I played a, a fighter in one of under. Yeah. Played a fighter in one of Rob's. Previous games. Who was a an ex gladiator who'd gotten kicked out of the gladiatorial arenas because they were juicing with with magic potions and they got caught doing it. And you didn't care what the potion was just. And so what I was doing during game. Play was I. Yeah. I would I would I off spend all my extra gold on potion? Look, that's just where it went on. So anytime that Kurt you're need any extra cash. They were always broke healthy stack apportions. I didn't care what those potions were you have five bowl strength, fine. I am buying them. Why only have enough money for four I'll take him? Exactly. And then during game play I was just rolling a die. Like whatever die was closest to the number. I currently had and I would pick a random potion and I would drink it anytime we gotten to combat because that's the only way that character knew how to fight was juiced up on magic spells, and attitude changed instantly whenever look, another character buff them with another spell or something, you know, but it. These these sort of flaws that, that I'm talking, and they paint Lee start painting that picture like if you don't know where to start. That's not a bad place to start. Sure. Because then that can gin you back to the twenty questions. She may not be prepared for the twenty questions or you may look at the twenty questions and then do these corks it'd be like, you know what I need to redo those and I think that's where backgrounds and histories come in, because you can start like you said, is, you know, in here, simply as like I joined the militia got drunk, one night and ex, you know, and that tells enough about a character, right there. But you could also write a twenty six page in depth world analysis of your character that search, great grandma, you know, and, and puts who you are in the world. But I don't think that necessarily gives you any more or less detail about the, you know, than, than a short narrative about how European I and you have a dirty old, you know, office on the second floor with barely any light in the, the cargo trains, come. By, and you have to pull your bed down from the wall and drink your fifth of scotch. That's the old the cheapest that you can get, you know, that tells a lot about character invalid, but it doesn't tell anything about your backstory, and that's what it used to be Eddie valiant otheir named Jack Daniels. Exactly, exactly. It's moments like that you can think about, but then you really have to think about like, how did he get there? And you quickly figure out is professor was also a Cobb and got killed by tune. You know, and that's what simple things like you drop a piano on him from forty stories, up hell of a wit ago, it really is. You know, and changes, it does change him in it makes him very flat. So. I can't even with you. I know I know guest over so don't start the music. I know you close close he was looking at it. So I would say, for history's challenge yourself, 'cause sometimes, maybe you do short histories like maybe you're just a quick person does it like throw something else in there at the same time challenge the storyteller a little bit. But always work with them. Yeah, don't get so in depth in your story that when you handed over to the storyteller there, like this doesn't fit it all in the world. But the storyteller also look at that and say, hey, can, we change the name of this town to this? And you say that you were part of this thieves guilt. Can we actually make that just like something a little lighter than that? Maybe it was just you and budget scoundrels, who called yourselves at thieves guild, you weren't sanctioned in any way. Yeah. And, and there you go. It's yes. And kinda moment and this nameless villain. No, he has name. Here's what his name is. You know. Oh, yeah. You know, his name, by the way. It's pretty awesome. You know his name. Yes. All right before we get to dip in this. I know you this was important to you. And that was as that arch types archetypes, I should say, and classes or clans or, you know, when you're talking, vampire or, or even societies yet, nationalities in. Yeah. In seven C you know every game has even if they're classless loveless systems, have some sort of categorization fear, fear for characters so always wear robes and appointee. Hats. He says we're going to call these. We're going to call these classes just for the for the for the hand of it. We re we mean all of these blanket, archetype terms, framing now I want you all to hear me. Very, very clearly wants you to just take a moment to ruminate on these words. Classes are not in a scape -able prisons. Period. Okay. I agree with the a class is a stereotype Jesse will give you a description of what a common representation of that classes will will take wizard. Sure, okay, wizards, wear robes. They hang out in libraries, all day. Most of them have familiar 's the only use stabs they wear big pointy hats. They have big long beards. They're frail. They're frail. Exactly. Okay. These things are maybe commonalities, stereotype, maybe stereotypes. Okay. You might draw some draw some lines through through through through the demographic say, that's all the turn out, but they're not inescapable prisons. So my advice to storyteller is helping create, you know. Oh, helping your PC's create their characters might vice to any players who are listening to this look at what you can do to challenge the stereotype, that your class puts out for you. Okay. Way, more fun. So, for instance, you know, try making an athletic wizard okay. Try making a clumsy Roque, I like clumsy lucky Roque a haunting. That was pretty awesome. Try making a scholarly barbarian. You know, don't use into your dumps out. They're not old on my wife. In a lark, played barbarian who was learning to be a lady, and it worked so beautifully. It works. So it was hard. It was challenging his home system because it was stacked against the whole way. But it was neat the way she worked at all out. Yeah. Up by the end of it. She she was courtly she, she were hoop skirt, and it was funny. Uh-huh. So, but man, if you piss her off and get her get her to get a battle-axe in her hand can't take her down girl out of the bar Burien but not the barberry out of the girl. It's she'll drop the hoop skirt and kick your right. Or you're barred with social anxiety bottles of that idea. No, how to weave magical spells intricately into every note that comes off of your loot. But. Oh, god. I don't wanna talk to girls ready. Trent resident. Yeah. I mean he's an amazing artist. But if you have a conversation with that, man, I would say today's a lot different, but, like Vicky met him. No awkward. Oh, I mean when when you do it all by yourself in a studio. Oh, yeah. You know, it's, it's different. But yeah. Yeah. So not that we know anything about being locked in a small room and not talking to anybody else. But kate. So, so I put that out there to, to players everywhere. And that is just, just try to think of what your character needs to be. And what you're could be. Yeah. You know, challenges stereotypes now. I'm going to say that, right. And I just I got very preachy there you did. And then I'm going to completely contradict myself. Oh, Lord, okay. Sometimes it is also fun to lean into the stereotype and increase the thing where you're going with this. So I'm going to give a big shout out to one of our guests on the show. Chris, Chris who made probably the best wizard I have ever seen in any game of dean D in all of my years, sir typical. So stereotypical now. Stereotype cranked to eleven what, what meme non was is a he is. He, he took he took the wizard and turn them into the most ostentatious grand high mega of Cain, Myton cosmic. Oh. Oh. Okay. So for those of you who are also who've eons, if you remember the what the robes that the original doctor the time lords had. And you actually in the tenant years, you get to see images of them. One or two. Yeah. With the giant collars, and the ring and all kinds of that holler that literally came up over their head. It was almost like like like a God like a hood, they've been starched too much kind of more like Paul drains that like had the edge so that you almost had defenses. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But he, he had that as his robes that we were like, okay. We got where this is coming from. We, we have a time Lord here. This is fantastic. Character came from a may jockocracy, where the media and the majors were the ruling class. And so he had this haughty like I should be ruling over all of you non-magical PR, because I learned magic, nice studied it, and I'm so I mean, he literally called the lyric spell. Beggar spell beggar was brilliant and they had to beg for their exactly. Revoking them. Yeah. Yeah, my hermetic magic can call upon lightning, and you have to ask nicely. God decides they don't like you that day too bad to better. And then you talk about, like like making not just a barred, but, like like David Bowie making the next David Bowie literally the sexiest you know, like just dripping off them with sexuality and innuendo and like being able to be close, when they walk they almost slink as they move every, every, every phrase, they speak is a sonnet every note they pluck is a symphony. You know that sort of care, they don't they don't have to swing a sword. They don't have to. Absolutely. Absolutely. And so, so don't be afraid to, to lean as much as I say, subvert, them, sometimes just cranking it up to eleven is so much fun in just the opposite to make the big dumb fighter go all the way. Let biggest the Dodoma st- like you walk into combat unless they point the direction to tell you to go murder. You're just gotta stated like oh, a puppy, you know. So yeah, so so be prepared there. But, you know choose exactly the important thing is that you are the one making the choice. Yeah. To make the character this way. Not because you feel you have to 'cause it says an book that this is what that classes like. But that you say okay this is why this character fits that particular archetype in the way that they do bright. Right. I think the last note that we've got an here really is the part that sits on me. And that is the we need to make sure that no matter what you create as a player in no matter what you're watching is created as a storyteller. They have to be able to work together at some level, even if it's contentious, but and I'll, I'll go back to this. It can't be contentious from the start you before you roll dies before you sit at the table and utter. Your first words with that as a character. You don't wanna preset that contentiousness because I think you're setting up a trope. Failure almost at that point of your trying to create a failure. And you don't want that to happen. Yeah, if you're gonna fight don't set them up, fight from the beginning may get make it an in game reason that that happens. We're Ganic Louis, but right. And, you know, and honestly, remember to be fronts. Yeah, absolutely. Like, don't don't try and drive them be like, oh, no. That's gonna ruin game plate. Nothing. No. I sure you there's other things that can dice will ruin game play someone role playing just gonna make things interesting. Exactly. You know, in the, the other component of that is just remember that you are all friends sitting at the table that sometimes okay, your characters will get into conflicts. You know, we referred to your character, and my boyfriend's character rose in Cranston guild and starring. Yes, laurel and hardy. Yes, they argue and bicker. Do Hans Tinley. Fantastic. His cleric is really strong willed, and my boyfriend's previously aforementioned asshole, noble, is an asshole mobile. He's fantastic at it and these fantastic at it and the two of them just have. Personality conflict. Yeah, start it. But the important thing is, though is that you're never mad at another player for what happens on graph paper, no never, you know, keep it in game. And honestly, a good thing to do. If discussion is getting heated break character. Yeah. For just a second just go. Hey, are we cool to continue this it out? You know, look, I want. I, I need you to understand. This is my character who's pissed with you who's pissed with your character. Right. But Sarah is perfectly fine with, with rob right now. Are we okay to continue? And just get just get rob say, oh, yeah. No, no. This is in character. All right. Cool. And and Furthermore, right back into it to take breaks. And if you need to step back and, and I would say as a storyteller, if you feel things are getting on a hand pause. It. So kick us. Pause. Are we still in character? Right. You know, because this is going on. And sometimes it goes on too long. If you need to break that scene, and literally, you know, have that moment where they walk off angry and then cut that scene and move to the next scene. Yeah. And you can talk about the resolution that fight later between those players. But either way you need to keep the story going, you can't just let it sit on that scene. That that's advice actually could probably take. Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. All right. Secondly, I, I'm gonna back you on this one be weary as a storyteller of someone creating a dark, improving lone wolf, I think, if you're creating that as a player, you need to back up and rethink, I think, all of us have one of those are her are past, but. Oh, I definitely did. I don't know if I've ever done that because it's not it's not something I do. But okay, let me say this, though. Maybe maybe not all of this. Yeah. But a lot, a lot of people's first characters are the dark and brooding lone wolf because they're sexy. They are, they're, they're, they're kind of that cooling, John wick style character. Like he's the one in pop culture right now. That I know. I agree. Hundreds of them, we Rogan. Yeah. Example. That one. I don't need anybody. Wanna sure? Yeah, exactly. And they're just gonna do everything themselves in the darkness in their heart carries them through to their to do their mission. Just anybody they're not going to talk to anybody. They can't show weakness. It's a very sexy style. Okay. It doesn't fit well in dean, d I don't think it fits well in a lot of systems. Are I I'm using dis shorthand for role playing games? In seventy seven. See, I mean if you look at someone like air, Mus and Athas like the each of those characters were little bit of that. But there was still something to tie them together. And that was the musketeers shirt, so I think you, you can get away with it. But I think as a role player, you need to acknowledge that that's your back story. I think the problem is less with dark broody and more with lone wolf. That's I agree with that. That's I think we're liberal comes down to typically your, your lone wolves are lone wolves because they are dark and broody, correct. Correct. And it's, it's okay to have angst. But make your angst work in a group because this is a group game. This is not DNC for one bright. I like your next comment because I heard about a game that I wanted to be part of that Chris was talking about at one point he had players who wanted to do. An all. Dwarf campaign and all I could think of was an all dwarf clear campaign. Oh my God. It would be epic. Like I like could you imagine? I literally just a logical fights. We. We're, we're getting ahead of the point. We're, we're discussing the point without making the point, the whole thing is, is that you can have it doesn't mean you have to be diverse, right? You don't have to have the typical Lord of the rings complement of one elf one dwarf one. You know, in a one clear, one fighter like fighter, rogue major cleric exactly know that the holy the holy trinity sort of, you know, human dwarf, half fighter healer tank. Yeah. No. You don't. You don't need that the, the group that I would reference actually sutting Phoenix of who a lot of you in the geeks. Fear may know has been about on a geek and sundry big party. Okay. Okay. Los Angeles side DC now we totally Detroit Indy scene, which didn't make that heaven. We do, but it'd be great. If we had some like A-List celebrities like there's somebody from Detroit, we just have to find them. Yeah. We do. We do. We do but she has a group called sirens. Yeah. And they are all bards. Oh, while they are collectively a rock band. All you Miller gemin- holograms. Yeah. Oh, that's bad Sayer in adventuring band. Oh man. That are. Are all bards all taken like different different barred colleges for their for their for the things. Okay. And like even in that they chose different spells, so that they do have one that kind of axes, the healer. They have won the kind of acts, a lot of, like, you know, Eva -cation styling label spells 'em. They all kind of synergy is and work off each other, but yeah, there it's a one class one gender party. Specializations tight. Exactly, exactly. But I mean that's the cool thing is that like even fighters you get you get into some specializations for just fighters alone. Like a Paladin is used to be its own thing. But it's a fighter what you can have a pallet. Who's a clerk, you know, that is true, clerk, you could actually have a second palate in who's not, who's just a, a murder. Dude. And especially with like fishing, indeed, now on one of the reasons I love the system so much a lot more freedom to do that. Sort of stuff used to have to multi class to get spells as a fighter now that just have the ultra tonight. Yeah. Like you wanna you wanna sling up close and personal spells sometimes channel through your weapon directly church. Sure, yeah. Yeah. That'd be a rogue. That uses spells, like illusion and enchantment spells sure, we got a whole class for that, you know. Yeah, I mean it's, it's, it's interesting like you had talked about in that the game where you had meme non we had Ravana, and they were both wizards. But you, you put them next to each other, and they're totally different people. They're totally different styles or two different everything. Mike, Mike character in the very same game as Menon the grand high arc Mejias. Yes. Was was risvan a- and she was a. She she grew up in a mining town up in the mountains. And she had a talent for the Arcain that her mother discovered very early, and she her mother after the passing of her father scrimped and saved and bass guitar up to the witch on the top of the mountain and said my daughter likes magic, can you train her and that was it like she literally learned magic on a mountaintop in a hut. Yeah. In some podunk like the pot population fifteen ROY style village. Whereas like meme non was literally a collegiate wizard. He went to Harvard and then his unfortunate circumstance turned out that he ended up being the, the assistant for his like you know what are we gonna order the call? Those when you're like his intern ship was for this ridiculous made who basically used him as an. Experiment. Most of the time and things happened. So, so, yeah, very different worlds end up in the same party in, like, well, I know so much more than you because I went to the Harvard for magic and I have a degree to show for it. And risvan would walk to go. Oh, yeah. I learned that out on the farm. I know what you're doing. Yeah. And he's like, how far girl match me in intellect. And it was great. It's hearth. Wisdom versus book was still wisdom. Exactly. All right. So I think I think we did do cover everything that we wanted to kinda did. We're making excellent time really are. We've got good time to go through these questions and actually enjoy. And we said we were going to carry these questions over, and we did, we did, we definitely kept you guys met elfin technology? We have your questions and we are totally gonna go over these, and we want to in next up. No, no. We're going to go from so, okay. So metal headed. Question in the vein of Prejean characters what about playing pop culture characters such as serenity crew in the firefly PG or get any given superhero in a superhero game. No one. I, I looked at this honestly I kind of read it differently at first, and then sir, I talked about it because my first intention was. Yeah. Go ahead and play a trope you know you're gonna play it differently. You know, be if you wanna be now be male, and then rereading it with Sarah. Oh, if I'm gonna play the firefly PG and the storyteller says, okay, which one of you is Mel, which one of you is. Oh. Yeah, I not I, I would never run that game because I have a vision of who Malas and have an idea of what he would do in a story, and I know what characters I like. And I think if somebody else's playing Kaley and turned her into some kind of I don't know, like an idiot tart who couldn't actually do mechanical work and, or her roles were terrible or as a storyteller. I wasn't properly intelligent enough to say, oh, yes, she would automatically know all these mechanical things we would get. I would see a lot of table fights happening. There's, there's a lot of that there is definitely. There's the knowledge factor. Oh, yeah. You talk about that I've seen all firefly. I've seen serenity but admittedly, it's been while. Right. And I am not enjoyed it. I enjoyed it a lot. But to say that I'm part of the fandom or anything like that is probably a stretch. I gave it. It's again was due attention, and I, I enjoyed it thoroughly. Yeah. And then I moved on, like, I I've what I've read a decent amount of punisher, but I am in. No way upon us your fan. And if somebody if I ran a superhero game and punisher was in it, and the person knew every issue of punisher in knew everything about it. They're literally gonna walk all over me. Yeah. What you as a storyteller and be like, well, no, no. He actually has three hideouts in this issue at this time period, he would have had this, and then he was working with these con-. You know, it's like wait and your players either going to be disappointed that you're not living up to their expectations of the character or they're going to be angry that you're messing up their charac. Later, correct. And so I way it's either way it's bad. It's bad move. So I'm sorry, met L. I think. No, I'm not sorry that we have opinions on this. I take that back. I'm not sorry that we have opinions on this, I would say, for me from Rob's point of view. I would find it exceptionally challenging as storyteller to try and do that properly, and to give it the credence that it deserves. Yeah, I if I'm gonna play devil's advocate. I'm going to say that. I think there's, there's an opportunity to explore deeper into a property that everybody loves in his familiar with, it takes some pressure off of you to have to come up with characters, and Lauren stuff at that you can literally just hands on the box set and say here watch that, that's the world book, right? Inversely I suppose fan fiction, you know, it's a bit like it's a bit like writing live fan Fiqh, but that's about the best, I can give it, you know, how many people when you say the word. Oh, it's a fan Fiqh make that cat face like your snow making the cat. Yeah. Right now, I just hit them, like making stinky, face take FanFest very personal. Yeah. I think that's the key is that FanFest very personal. I think when you turn fan Fiqh into a role playing session, there's some, you're gonna run into risks. Yeah, so let's leave it there. Okay. You wanna do technologists question next out. Sure. All right. Await we will do the other one. Second. I just wanted to pass it back on a no. You had a huge chunk on this one sharp. Sure, okay. So technolog- asked us who is your favorite character that has been at your table? Not Mike irked. Correct. Not something you created what made that character memorable or special for you. So I had to think a lot about this one. We're talking about a lot of gaming history. And a lot of games and there were a lot of good memories from those games. A lot of good characters in those games, I am going to give this one collectively to my entire adventure group. Oh, man adventure tells the an society, the pulp action nineteen you no go adventure tells the a on society. I love with us did in alphabetical ODA. Yes. So I'm gonna give it to my entire adventure group, a short-lived as they were because I was going through some stuff in my life at that point. And could not continue running the game. But Mark my words we will continue that game. Some we aren't dead yet, and we can get back to that. Yes. We can we naps out to that. But to, to further answer the question why? And who these characters were? So adventure is a pulp action game. It pulp is really about taking those kind of stereotypes, those tropes, and kind of blowing them up to be something that's a little larger than life. Little fend has stick, and in a time, period, not off of, like dick, Tracy, the Rocketeer. I mean yeah there's are all pulp. Exactly. Just trying to help people who, who may not know, the Rocketeer the phantom, the shadow skycap in the world tomorrow in the world. Tomorrow's amazing. What to a degree of the early the captain American america- I? Yeah. Like history. The venture was bit pulpy and a same with wonder woman kind of had some pulp characters to it. Yep. You know where you you've got these larger than life personalities that wrap the character, you know, you know, you want your villains to, to maniacally laugh Knox in boxes. Shouting at his podcast rate podcast player right now to mention doc savage there. Doc, savage perfect thing. So, so when when I said, we're going to be playing adventure. Yeah. And I asked my players to create characters for me. I was little, I was a little worried that they wouldn't grasp what pulp is, and with the essence of it is. And. Rob's, wife Vicki came to me and said, I wanna base, my character off of this real life person, and life of me. I not remembering that really person is, she is screaming at home. Right. Not hari. Yes, yes, the a sexy spy also like a movie star, but also a spy, and I was like, okay, okay. She's like it's based off a real care dress at all right? All right. And she goes and her name is Gracie, demure. And I was like, oh my God, you got it. And like I shed a tear on like this is the most beautiful thing I've ever heard demure race. You named your cursor Gracie demure that is that the mazing and out of that game. We got Gracie, demure. We got Dr Lawrence Critcher, who was a crypto zoologist cr- crews in creature. Yes. Who had a, a, a, a yeti companion. It was yeti. Correct. It was a companion Butler, right? A yeti Butler going on. We had the, the barn Stormer Ila may Hawkins. Know what was cool. She could pilot and anything like a rickshaw down street. That was literally rolling one wheel, she would be able to figure out of that work, but that by plane. Oh, she's urgency by plane. Yeah. Sh- your character shameless Finnegan, who is the most stereotypical Irish bruiser, but the term piketty even terrible to say it that way but it's the truth we had Zing lease. I the Jade dragon Princess. I mean it was all of these characters now it was kind of going through. Like I'm sure grace, he was my favorite and I'm like, oh, but locked Dr Lawrence, creature was great like, but he LeMay. Hawkins was great. But like shame, as you know, and you know what? No, it's, it's all of them. It was that entire game. Yeah. I mean it's in. It's things like that, that help remind you of not only a system and play style in a setting. It pulls together. It is a book in itself in your mind. Exactly. And so, yeah, I would I would. Say that for me the most memorable character. It's hard 'cause I have run quite a few games. And I've connected with a ton of players on a lot of different levels. Does a tough one? Right. It is really tough for me because I didn't take as much time to think about this one nearly. So I, I may revise this over many, many podcasts, which can keep this question on the list. But if I if I go with the group because you did a group shirk, I would say it was my children of heroes game that Iran, I loved in, in those again, those were the characters that I prejudge up to a point yet. And then you guys took off and I ended up with brilliant kids. And it was it was Harry Potter, ask in the sense that your all kids running around a little school. You know. But at the same time, you were the children of heroes, like they had made their money they had made their Mark that started the retirement, and they're like my kid is going to have a good life. But not all of you knew that your parents were heroes, some of you just knew them some of you didn't know them at all. I knew who all your parents were in the background. But you didn't. You didn't know how you got there. I saw. No clue. Exactly, exactly. And I found that as we went to that story, I didn't think it was necessary to expose that part. It wasn't an important thing and we just kept rolling with it. So what your lives created that made it, and it was beautiful. Watching guys crow up, basically. And there's a specific scene that I'm gonna come back to this, actually. Sarah's seem that we adjust finished an encounter where the kids had to rescue some of their classmates and other individuals from basically Cobol effectively, now keeping in mind that seven see, for those who don't know the setting monsters are not really a thing late they exist, but it's not like dean d it is like, oh, look marauding orcs, right? It is like it is it is more to the sense that they are their thing. Things of myth and legend, in some countries myths, and legends. Do come alive specifically in countries like, Germany, where they're like, don't go into the dark woods or the red cap will kill you. And he is a thing you know, they told their children don't go out there, which is will literally sneak you into their home with sweets and then cook you and these things exist at the seven SeaWorld. So when these monsters showed up on the edge of town, it was meaningful. And so there were like ho crab. These things are here. Now, what was interesting was is that somebody had made a deal with her character and said, if you can get me, some of their blood and things I, I would trade for something you want it. It was a specific gland. It was it was a perfume that I was trading was an expensive perfume, correct. Because you were you really wanted that perfume. And so this little girl shows up late one night with the head. Of I wanna say two or three in a sec something like that. And it might have only been one regardless severed. Head were covered in blood from head to toe from the fight and hacking these things heads off, and like lakes, literally stone-faced walked in set the bag on the counter the guy doesn't even make eye contact with you literally deter, Joan carefully packs up the box in a nice package rep hands, it to you, and you just coldly walk out the door and back to the school, without Sayeda word all I could think of, was that toll walk back your feet walking on the cobblestones was the only thing that could be heard that whole damn city shutters just closing. Exactly. Nobody was like there was no little girl. You know. Nope. Nope. Nope. That's that person went right back at their house like dogs coward away from you because the smell of the blood of the colds on you. I mean literally it changed you. It changed you as a person, and many, many years later, that character is still kind of suffering facts from. Such grisly out. It just it's card you. So I, I will have to say I do love those characters, and I loved that scene in particular stays with me and it was beautiful was absolutely beautiful. Art. I think we have one more question, right? Yeah. Mattis medal. Fast. How do you go about introducing new players into an existing campaign with great care? Yes. An I say that there's a couple. I'd say there's a couple steps to this at run through my head real quick, and that is they have to connect with the other players in a hook way. They have to be able to be meaningful to your plot as well. And I think the easiest way that you can do that. Number one is communication. And number two, is think about them as a as adding an NPC, dear story. Why are they there? Why do the players care about this thing? What makes it significant? And sometimes that's a matter of weaving their backstory into this into the game. Sometimes it's a matter of making it meaningful for the players to need that person. And you have to step away from the obvious things like oh, this person's your new leader like some players, Anga fall guy, you know. But part of it the other part of it is looking at your players, and saying, hey, as a group, I'm thinking about adding this new person and for them. Going. Yeah. We totally wanna play with somebody. Let's bring 'em right in. And then let you know work with that a little bit. You need to have energy. Just don't wanna drop somebody into a game. Yeah. That's actually a really great point. Is that you're not you're not just adding a character pitcher also adding player? And you've, I mean, step one make sure that that players cool to be sitting your table. Yeah. You know, make sure that your other players are okay with them being edited the group, they're just as much a part of the game as as you are. And you know so, like we had we've added what two new players since we first started. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. In fact, the mad elf is one of the yes, yes. And with both players I mean we're talking these are good. Friends of ours out of out of game, bribing their close. Friends, we love them, like family. But I still had that discussion with player group going okay. This person's gonna make number six is that too big right? Are we already stretched too thin? And we, we had an honest, goodness discussion of like won't know, we would really like this person in our group in spite of the fact that we understand that six is unwieldy number to do as a as a group we were, we are willing to take that, you know that that burden on that we understand that combats take longer piece gonna take longer. There's going to be that much much more plot that has get added in et cetera. For the game, but we're willing to take that hit to have this person with us. Okay. Good talk. I thought that's what you were all going to. But we still had that discussion. Yeah, even after the years of it. So exactly. So, yeah. So, and then when you when you add the, the, the character in, I think it's important to start right off the bat, regardless of what the situation is give that character their own bit of plot. Okay. So, for instance, when we did add the metals character into my game I began the scene with him exclusively. Not even the group or not even introducing him to the group, but just you walk into the Guildhall. Yeah, here's what happens. You talked to the guild leader. She shows you around. She says, you know, she talks to you about your, your bits of magical expertise, you introduced to this NPC, and that NPC and you have these conversations and then she says. Oh, look here. Come to other PC's that I believe, you'll be working with right? And I introduced him to two of the other pieces that were part of the major guilt, and we went from there. Yeah. Like a good TV show. Right. You're, you're framing, the important person as they're moving through, and then connecting them to the story, but, but not only that, though, you're. It helps to make that player feel important and involved. Because if you just walk in and go like, okay, so, hey player characters who are all here and established in the story and all have their own importance and stuff like that. The newbie shows up to what are you guys gonna do bring, you know that, that newbie really feels like? Oh, hey guys, I have green is right. And now it's up to them to kind to interject themselves in kind of, like we've themselves into the story, and I think it's a really crappy thing to do to a player, you know, give them their own. Bitta plot real them into the story and, and then handed over the PC's who've had five of the game sessions before that to do their own stuff. They can spare twenty minutes. Yeah. For for your new player. All right. Well, I hope because we just got our two minute warning that that was enough of any answer for you medal, and for technolog- next week's topic is going to be on table etiquette. Or what DND in some of us. Call herding cats. So we'll talk a little bit about that. Remember that you can find us on Twitter at S T underscore conclave Instagram as to underscore conflict, and discord, please join the link in our Twitter feed, and come ask questions about stuff and talk about show. Oh, and now you can also find us on patriotic. That's patriot dot com slash storyteller conclave. And that's all one word together story. Todd conclave speaking of patriot. I would like to give a big shout out to our Petri on members. Eric and away named after actually the exact same Ila mate, hawk it. Let's write the exact person in real life. Thank you so much for supporting the show. You're definitely keeping thing going. We hope to hope to make more great content for you are intramural is beyond the warriors by frog or out term is what you're hearing in the background is put Princeton San by mid air machine. Both from free music archive dot org. We're done at prod cast a trait dot com, you can find them. Podcast trait on Twitter are engineer is Kate, and we'd love to thank our families picky and Sean, all of our friends who play seventeen DND with us. Enjoy your evening. We love you.