Deeper Digs: And in the End: The Last Days of the Beatles with Ken McNab
Hi this. Is Ellen. And you're listening to pence. Impulse that. On. Spring. Enroll archeologists. Christian swayed. John Jay. Talking. Now. On with the show end in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make diggers. One of my favorite lyrics of all time. Of course, that is the last words spoken on the last. Beatles album ever made. Well. Yes. See I'm leaving out that the supposed to be left out her majesty that is and in a minute, we will get to know our guest today to have all of this make sense. Ken mcnabb with his new book and in the end the last days of the Beatles. So hold tight. Okay business. Well guess what I'm on vacation, and since I'm recording this ahead of time. Not. Much business. Well, just a thanks for listening. And sharing with your friends. We've been getting a lot of mail these days and are. Extremely humbled by your love and attention and affection. 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We've got some big news coming up a very shortly with a very large platform and probably I'll be able to enhance it when I get back. So keep an ear open for that. Okay. That's it very short and sweet this week on the business. Let's get into it. Give me. You give me off. Go, she should you Feel. I only give you my. Committee. Stick. A. yes. You never give me your money written by Sir. Paul. thought to excoriate the devil in their mitts manager. Allen. Klein. Without doubt one of the big reasons for the demise of the ban in nineteen, sixty, nine and nineteen seventy. not the only one for sure But we will see a big factor in the eventual demise of the FAB four. with us today is Ken mcnabb who has written a very detailed look at the final year of the ban end in the end the last days of the Beatles. It is a month by month account of the disastrous nineteen sixty-nine for the ban, and while nineteen seventy is really the death nail of the Fab four most of that year nineteen seventy was more the actual train crash. The Year of sixty nine was where the wheels really start to fly off. Yes McCartney self interview published on April Tenth Nineteen Seventy is considered the historical moment most historians point to as the official end though some others. Point to December thirty first of that year when Maka Sues John George and Ringo. As the end I kind of choose that because I, you know. Look I do think some mostly the public who were completely ignorant of the internal events held that continue to hold out. Hope there was no internet that you weren't getting real time information of you know I it was a very opaque behind the scenes. Oh, most of what we know comes out much later. But let's face it. Once you sue your bandmates highly unlikely a kun-bae is in the future. and as we know that really was the end of the four never held the stage together again. Though I wonder if John had not been murdered if they would have done. So at some big important event. It's a question that will be asked of Mr mcnabb here in a minute. were there other reasons for the death of perhaps the single greatest cultural phenomenon of the Twentieth Century Oh hell? Yes I mean. Certainly Yoko or more specifically what John expected from the other three when it came to Yoko. is plenty of noise to cause rifts. and. While she was an easy target to pin things on early as time or on. We found her situation was really only the tip of the iceberg as they say. George realizing he should be treated better as a songwriter is another big situation. As we know he goes on to do some incredible work post Beatles and let's face it his contributions on the last album road are stellar. Well Really You, know all of the the individual shine after words. In various incarnations throughout the seventy s and that is great But of course, the sum of their parts and all of what could have happened had they soldiered on is. Always. Subject to debate if you will but I also think just growing up as men and wanting their own identities in the universe is a huge factor I mean we all grew up and life changes. You know a band is like a gang especially when you're young. But then you get married, you settle down you have kids. In the end up getting tired of that other marriage, you know the one with several other people in it and let me tell you. It's hard managing all all of that. Well, at least until the kids are grown and midlife comes and you desperately want back in the gang. Anyway. All of these issues are addressed in an investigative manner by our guest today who is a journalist after also no surprise. Ken. mcnabb is a lifelong Beatles fan and well respected journalist with Scotland's evening times. He lives in Glasgow with his wife and children. And this is his second book on the SCOUSERS who changed the world the first very appropriate title being the Beatles in Scotland. which was published in two thousand eight. All right. Let's get into it. Let's dig in as we say around here. Here is Ken mcnabb. Wants those away. Once those away. Get. Home. Sleep. We'll see. June. Welcome to deeper digs, Ken mcnabb, how you doing today Thank you very much having the. Oh Of course of course, I think your your coming to us from way up in the northern reaches of Scotland. Yeah, normally limited based in. Scotland White I away from my own sort of. Looking Advani missed the AETNA. Definition of Scotch mist. Distance. Early. On the noise. Nice. Together we. My and I up in. In a waste in Scotland Fife. Nice to be. occupied. Waiting to. Oh. Yeah. I Bet I. Bet everybody deserves a little vacation now and then sell. Well, let's let's dive into your book and in the end. So I guess the first question might be and and you know this is a sort of an obvious one. A lot of people have asked Apple. Let's get your opinion on it. If John wouldn't have been murdered in nineteen eighty dea think the fab four would ever return to record and tour again. I very much dirty because she. Very. The loss of discussions over a ten years old the binds break-up. Discussing. Being. Saying, you might have to on the same page. was. Never was an occasion where all the. Good. Reasons for about a mini fussing to the members. When they split up officially in ninety. Seven Terrible raise of. Tenable legacy of feeling between them. because. They had been they helping mushroom growing and say it'll useless so long. It's inevitable the. People Alive School in different directions this year off in different directions you get older they form new associations you on ships. Are, there was never up point and it did take some time those winds to heal. And and even in the. member. Will think of. Songs been involved with that Benedetti fight. To Pike and. Regional disowns keep the county. Goes. How ill may pointed to each other through the songs in the Lennox on song the winds took a long time to. Have Your sleep just probably run of venomous. Estimate Nationally did take some time for them to reconcile to put enough distance. Bluewater between them all and then for them to at least have some kind of. Friendship in a sense but attain against in nineteen seventy five, which is not along. When you consider binds nowadays. Private to make an album. Nineteen seventy five join Lennon's reconcile that you go into a game they have a son coach join and he says well. Guys. Hop taking five years to look after to give my son my against and I neglected to give all son because early on. So it was never any point Christian where only on the same page. Quite. Quite beautiful because. The money. But together. Using. But. They've been thrown all kinds of money at them. Including thirty, five, hundred dollars from Lorne Michaels, which was probably the closest to the the the the the the serious offer that they might have actually followed up on. That was the only one that that maybe. Just. Because of the joke of it and being goons, fans and Saturday night live being the next iteration of the goons if you will they might have. That Because oil McCartney actually watching together Mill Chris Uber. George showed up the next week and said, okay, let me have the check in novels. For All four walters take my piece of it. I think. Jerry's. Yeah I don't I. Don't know if I agree can I mean certainly you're right in the seventies it would not have happened but you know, I, think of live aid and in nineteen eighty five and I think if John had not been murdered that that that's sort of cause of fits right in their wheelhouse for all four of them and they could have been. Persuaded to come back together at least for a one off for something like that and you know by the time you get into the mid eighties and certainly into the nineties and definitely ended the two thousand. You start to see some of these bands at had a you know a lot of money at the end what have you get back together because of installs Ya. A side of things and the reality that you know especially for these four guys a while they did some some great stuff on their own each of them individually, and we'll talk a little bit about that in the in a bid They together knew that you know the you know being a musician myself. You know there's sometimes you find magic and it's hard to replicate that and let's face it. I I don't think there's any four musicians that have achieved more magic than these four guys. Mean John. Abadie strong sentimental street. And it would come down to join. I mean, sure. Oh, definitely would have come down to John Yeah. Yeah Paul would probably done it. A Ringo heartbeat would have done it and George probably would've begrudgingly went along. Don't have been. Reluctant conscripts by. Atlanta had leaned on it off then an. Interesting scenario about Liberia the hostile this. will go F- would be assuaged enough to. To convince them. This was the proper platinum. This was the right car toys. But I am not quite convinced Nude Donna and John Lennon. Late, the idea of them be maneuver into doing it I mean it was always talked likely. To. Dentist conversations with Jordan Johnson. But then of course when it came down to hottest. Didn't complete. The Minute Gambill said that Will Cohen get your note saying. That that point artisans senator antenna kicks in thinks why are we going to do deep wholesome and Y- on this late? Aldrin's. Now no your. Without John Impossible You know luckily you know the the they get together for anthology and do some things like that in and of course, we got free as a bird out of that with the three of them but you know, yeah, I, mean, you think you know the you know let's face it the precursor to live eight was concert mingle dash and You know that that kind of sets the template for that. So if John was around, you know they certainly. Wouldn't have done it for the money you know led Zeppelin's a another example who was thrown gazillions of dollars and they didn't do it mostly because Robert wanted to go and do something other than So there is something to be said that maybe you know one of them would have said, no I'm off this or or they would have continued to you know to have their own lives or their inabilities like John did for for between seventy-five and eighty. Two rage Sean in those very formative years. So you know like us with rock and roll archaeology, you come at it from a Fan's perspective. So let's get your introduction to the Beatles and how you became obsessed enough to write not one, but now two books on the Fab Four. Well. First of all, you music as a teenager. She always play somebody said to me not so long ago can did you ever see the Beatles live and it was? Absolute and How do you think I? showed. The sexiest. But you know kind of like oh mean my music tastes. At but always combined beachell simply to the strength of the songs. The strength of the past, but also for me. Story. Story of US four guys and how the lakes. And took linked into Twain Ed from that point is like a four star in the Constellation and how did you start of IT Elaine? Of Food of them came together to create. Unprecedented bind if you wait. So I was always interested in I was always interested in the and story of the bind as always longest. Show an such. Gao such a year. What was each album each album being progressively better than the last level. I just need to grow as individuals and as a group. WHAT PD, on. The Dick Change the world you know wasn't fought to young member. But. Books, I look. SEC historical analyses on. The Beatles jeans, the world form the better sue them using at night chain I I think we should open thankful for that. You know I don't what happen again where a bind sunshine a cultural influence on the entire planet not just young people but but you know older generations you the only bind in history which even know still have that crush Many. And it was funny because if you listen to the songs is a huge leak. So something white safely example somewhat, she loves you set up an alleged. always always amazed at the dose of. I saw rates US recessions as individuals and story even today I. Think Story is credible. Like this Kendall Oval that you could make up. I agree when we started the original rock and roll archaeology the first podcast one of my questions that I wanted to answer which had been, you know a my most of my life was okay. Do Two of the greatest musical geniuses of the twentieth century grow up less than one mile apart from each other that. That there's something about genius. What does that mean? What how, how does one accomplish that and of course, you know what what you come to find out is that you know the first is the emotional connection that John Paul had we with each other the loss of their mothers around the same time and that created a bond like no. Other the timing itself of them just showing up right at the moment the willingness to put in the effort, the ten thousand hours in Hamburg or what have you, and then the luck of the draw of you know getting hooked up with somebody like George, Martin a headmaster who was perfect for them that helped them grow as individuals and as musicians. Journey. Tradition which is. pitted. On the way you know all these magical events or these touchstones, the opposite to she sense cheap. Feet. As? Growing up. So coast each other and forming up on because it was so young. Definitely and John Lennon. Interesting. Israel. I think you know the dynamic between a John Lennon would know have choice McCartney as created auto unless you believe something to offer and I think that they know that that is a partnership of couse sense. and. Not. Wait until. Of course, you know things slightly we use sweat we come off the wagon towards the end. I was leading to have been talking about it being a fantastic story. To individuals come together to form this partnership, this alliance which changed. Now. Well, I, also, think you know unlike a lot of bands in these guys were workhorses they you know they the the studio was their office. They literally would come into work every day. You don't get a cup of tea and you get to work You know like any other you know blue? Collar. Or white collar job They would just come in and do that. They didn't get lost in They never lost that that aspect of it it just constantly punching the clock punch out and they treated a little bit more like you know traditional songwriters You know you'd find in the Brill building who recognize if you know this is it's a job and all the accoutrements stardom and fame and things like that are less important in they constantly seem to understand that better than most. Yeah. In a sense you touched on the. Humber, I don't say the Honda watching bind in history than the Beatles. You must've been but. As well. All these. Financing up stone finessing the. Voice to thanks and then and then rain the. Make a become A. Cooper recording behind you're talking about what to albums. Yeah. For singles. Yeah Maybe once become a bit when then you go the films. Nothing. Ever. Ninety two. Trump or creativity into such a short. Yeah. Has Seven Years Yeah Yeah. Say. Mushroom and say this whole news. New York. This is quite the norm for Bein institute five years to make an album. Jake socks what it takes. These guys were relentless in the Esi and I think you can. Always, it the. Comment from buying instant anybody said to the show ended he's go week off next week. McCartney Bullshit Vashem. Tassie we can buy and I'll. They had. A week off from tooting and that's That's also to be find Chretien to albums a year. A year. Once, America won't you own your? European tres, I, mean. Eh. World Tours Yeah Known Stock Trade No. I in between old idea, you have to look to the next album to the next single. Yet. recorded. And it was landless an I don't Hey. I know. Nervous systems together in the fish and I think maybe having a little guys in the bond ilk. The four right guys all seem to balance each other out. You know I I've said, and go to my grave saying without the addition to Ringo. There's no Beatles That was that final piece that just created not only abounds personality in an some some wisdom of that Ringo brings, but you know this unique plain style which adds to this unique soundscape that they They are able to lean on throughout the the the years of recording together you a huge lingo financial you know he does. Backdrop noon again. But Sleep full shades of the same script. Christian and if you remove one say. Doesn't walk. Now falls apart. And that now Django thank you y'all had I could possibly. Can yes and you you hear great dramas. Ken's born him when he was alive and. Neil pair on and on. L. One of them a abide were to see Ringo Starr is a drama and the overall. And I think bingos not bengals thumbing the beachell. UNINVENTIVE simply. So many ASTA fall. You only have to listen to the driving tomorrow never for chemicals. Yes absolutely. Certain That so it's not seem we've got. To the point. Then he Never bind. Said tomorrow never news was of any fos. Modem. Translate? Because of that jump. Suits very interesting renova he's. Huge wrangle. Without. Ringo doesn't walk. Now. Without Ringer a work. His quick word from her sponsors, we'll be back in a bit. And now that to the program show. This is your second book on the Beatles. I being the Beatles in Scotland. So what did you discover in the first book and the Foster was Expected after they took a toll the book. Just seen base slightly. John Lennon's cousin Stanley Parkes. Lifts giblets another. Glasgow, so I wound up. Regular. Phoned up on, he said come on on. The my son, who is only sexy. On on, we had a long conversation of join on and he was such only mine. You know he had on on a father abortionists. Pet of joins duties. On them. Enjoy, your show me all these. And obviously. You know always script. Ole God damn. Chemo we on his house thinking well, Coochie do a book about connections to Scotland. Because join us to go up to the North's go for these holidays. West Stanley is. On the way to be the whole thing began to teach sheep. And I was one of the things one of the do was, would it be possible because? The People don't know that the bathos to is a bind wasn't humbug any that it was in Scotland. For I'm bookings he did a very small shirt of Scotland with a single, johnny gentle. On. Oh, that's as the backing band. And I I say oh Percent Name. Would it be possible to get an eyewitness account of every. The ever plead in Scotland. Including these guys where there? No. Can't. Have something wait. Geeks I go twenty I witnesses. So I thought that was an interesting an interesting coincidence, but you know the vet. These people I clean crucial elements. All Guy Code Ninety eight whose ascension. Cleaned on the one of the bastions of love me do because George Martin Van Gogh, right. An interesting show to Donovan the sixty four, sixty folks. Also comes from Glasgow. So he he went to India with them. And again, it can do to context and I witness accounts Susu away you've been able to together a video lots of connections to skull my county of course, had a farm in Scotland Yep. I eventually links called. He's. Vache. NAMED CHECKING OFF Scottish places. So enemy I pictured advanced on a slowly ounce rail and I was. I never expected to. Not. Speaking rejoins cousin. To pitching the whole thing together. So it was good. And? Maybe, eight years later Su Board. Could I is another. Problem is. Many. That assume any now? Oh, the most rick written about Bandon history. There's no two ways you know to try and bring something new to the table voice going to be an enormous challenge. By New I did thank him nineteen sixty to get from. Scotland to blow it in the northern the template. On. Everything. This is this is. A heavy lift I mean, what do you think it was necessary to write another book on the Beatles and especially about you know their last year's ban not not happy times and you know dea think you've got to untie the Gordian. I don't know whether you ever tied to go the and it came to nineteen sixty nine. Brazil, obey. Chiaki and very young to you all. Know. You. Know the beginning to come off the wagon. Increment in the studio. WENT TO BE? Stations Benny. The way. A new and innovative police passing or professional. Joint John Lennon was like Keno Top. Tenacious. Because you know. Problem with drugs and he was unhappy is bind situation. Novel conflicts taking place in the background. Such as you mentioned yourself as a haven, west is a heavy. But to try. To the walls. So that you sat committed that heaviness so that you've been able to shine some light and shade on the whole. Doing Glen I mean amongst Pete Yeah. Yeah? Yeah. Yeah. The book is not all doom and gloom you first of all, you break it up. You know over the twelve months. Each chapter is is is a month in the in the the life in the Beatles and You know it's not all doom and gloom You know there are plenty of things due to to celebrate both personally and as a band. Yeah. I. Of all this kiosk came some form of creation and always does friction can link to grandma is a pity that. So many conflicts taking place in the Viking. It's incredible that they actually months to do any work. I mean the money's to keep up got race your. Problems in a yet. On the Latin after led to be such an unpleasant experience s incredible that actually able to to get back in the shoe to do one wash double one last wall plates. And Saints. So. You always bike to I I talked to him in. Love the bond even Dacas Woman's. Jumps point of view s agree stony an education even even the by is good in the sense in. Charleston or you can just saying the names, John Lennon Own, McCartney, John Tyson stop needs still coney eaves and to Pew Bipolar on what was the most difficult point. I think is a is an interesting situation. But medal darkness. You still have the music at the end of the day is amusing the. Strongest D-. Yeah Oh without doubt You know you mentioned earlier you know we were talking about just the. You know the the. Like aspect of the band and how they took their job seriously and then the immense amount of pressure, and then the time crunch that you put into it. Lesser Human Beings would have just put out you know maybe a song or two, and then a bunch of crap. But that's not what happens. Here. You've got you know as you said, seven years of almost every album being subpoenaed earlier to the one preceding it it's just. It's incredible. Any you know whatever angle you look at it it's really just an incredible period of time. You anybody in history each. Album is forward by a much superior. I mean you can argue whether the way. The sound and he's already. But. It's a double album. All these discussions are very healthy. I'm a great believer in. One of the magical things. As, you can have so many different points of. I still come at the same site to go. Just thank you know that you'll never see no exodus find again in terms of the fluency of subsequent generations but. When And As, a good example of the. Quite going. Question the worst would did. spotify is not invite a Lennon Megani. So but it's a George Harrison Song here comes the. Because active, we'll take your child's Mois. Let's coming up on the rails. But often I I was always fascinated by the Even know what? Reaching the end of this was so much happening in older lace spoke of ended on. What casting the what s help Rates in the van the end. which is also incredible. Oh I completely agree. So do you think that first ring of the bell towards their demise was the sudden death? A Brian? Epstein? It has a significant ought to play. You say finding the division bail in a sense. You know lying moist. The Guy, who wrote all these strands together Louise quite prepared to. DEAL WITH POLGE twins joins wends Georgia's. Rangan have anyone's because he was quite happy to go with little. And he seemed to be able to compartmentalize all these different issues and create some kind of unique. At I died all of a sudden the ship take tiny as long as on the looks. A. Note to. No, the debt needs somebody to be a business mind I. mean you may have left by it's one of US Open ended questions. You know when? Yeah. Yeah. Because Brian Brian as as as good of a personal manager he was. Business Wise. I might give him a C. Yeah SASINA. Semesters. Yeah Yeah. So they always had that side of the business side was always influx and and I think to your point if things had gotten a serious with. with Brian and really looking deep into the books yet they may have decided they needed. Somebody. Clinch. Yeah, yeah you know. So that gets to the first point because you know you know Brian is the year before You point to apple cores. The first major issue to create Dunkin the gears that the three boys. that three of the boys understood the need to keep them of financial issues quiet. but I think Lennon's spoke to disconnect echo where he laid bare the company's deep problems. Why is that and You know do you think do you think Allen Klein saw that interview? No, I think that's Our claim is a demon king of the Beatles. Stoning. Saints. You know the company. Apple. diastrous henning when he even a lot money coming in from the way I'll James Taylor. Many. To walk up to their. New, still spending more than about bringing in. All these terrible. I owe US languishing in the apple votes. No rancor company. Joe Joins the company. But Apple as a business entity voice on an? Stay. Of. Collapse. Sixty nine. Interview, you mentioned. Thinking maybe Cheek John Wayne nevertheless did saying this interview to He. Dungy's last fifty. Bucks. That she's dull. Point. That statement in disconnect. Sent up alleged flair and not rates Leah additives we all the reactor one to New York. And Setting New York as. A mind winning. Shot. ki-hyeon's a smoking kite May. Have, unconventional. A conventional. Booking Pie in his. Office. Hines and the fussing he says, when you see thought Stephen Is Gotcha. And he's name else is our in Clayton was. Ones, but who's clean them bashing and life was that he was going to get the Beatles and when he saw an instrument, he was convinced that he was ideal passing to make his own pitch to take all the running of apple on by doing. So becoming define. Over beaches. At that point what is that chase is moved into Clay Ben, you know all sorts of movements take place in the bullet and and I think that was a key moment in what became the slow dissolution of it behind. The intervention violent claim was a significant ought. A significant element in the makeup of Beatles to call. Yeah. Yeah. Now, the walkout at Twickenham studios by appears to be the first real concerned someone. was actually serious about leaving the band. Wouldn't you say? Say. Vagrant Josh was just. I think he was just saying. Yeah. Now, we we know Ringo had threatened. You months earlier during the white album but but you know. Convincing Ringo to come back would always be easy. Yeah I think I mean cynicism Ho Ho y of into Johnson's DNA. Suffer Fools gladly and he sat. Was Smuggling Takes Yoko Ono enter the way to wait. Beatles family. Now, I've been very careful not to blame because I. Think you look at. It does anybody any good. There was a whole combination circumstances involved. Jia. George. A you'll find you can wake setting the. And the also failed many McCartney where guessing his subs. I was not happy guy and quite. And All. The stations of walking and Hugo. And I went getting. OUT AFTER A. The? Walking Vinnie will. Jackson Mielke. We'd see. I was going to ask about that since you brought it up. Is it seems to me a little bit of revisionist? Absolutely one hundred percent is and no matter how you? Please just yes. The bottom line, my friend you cannot. Simply. Redone. Tyson walks on the beach on a Saturday and estimate in Johnny six in a recording. Because he doesn't think this is walking anymore no amount of and by and by the must use Pizza Jackson Fine But New York Jason is going to change history. To happen. Very interested to co or walks I one hundred percent as Santa of vision. I understand bingles already said it works great while he would say and understand posted loose great understand that you would say that but end of the. Misini. Forever see I'm sure mostly. Four. Hundred dollars a footage. Beg To be some. More often moments but I. Oh. Yeah. The end of the they were not vegas place and you can't change. No it ends in the dissolution of the band. They didn't get it back together. They didn't work it all out not. Be Interesting. To Now, we'll see. We'll see. Yeah. Yeah. All right. We we mentioned Allen Klein definitely of the Demon King in the story but let's talk about Yoko You know it's interesting that most observers over the years have pointed less at Yoko, being a a catalyst of the breakout of the break-up, and while you don't exactly point a finger at her, it seems she's not exactly loved in the mcnabb household. Not. necessarily. It's not Christian love. Is Not questionable and I. Just I just didn't want to become. So stereotypical I single as an easy target for this the thing that may be one of the one of the key key. Elements of this project. Titian voice to try and apply some context to everything to tie apply some perspective to try and see things sued. Over, fifty years and clydes. A SPE to the events up and then and SEAFORD fight. Maybe comedy toast contemporaneous comedy gotten home. and. He's very easy. You must have made those railed nor she voiced. Japanese. American. Of Me just attached to media commentator tame. And you scape us on television. She was ridiculed for being an album gone out just a main claim to fame his film join. With people bikes aids you know and she was perceived is this we have Japanese American Benny. By the Me Luke. Joins by to this lovely go. To and to this Hannibal Robber who but all that said you kind of ignore that clear fight that Yukos arrival on the scene alienated to antiquity join George and Ringo. Studio was always there sacrifice India. Obviously the what know Santana of Mule Chauvinism, attached. Because of north of England boys. So different than is no. I. Studio Voice where the walk and then all of a sudden is you're setting Georgia's. Eating Biscuit. Oh worse than that having a bed broaden. Into the studio. With a mic over the I I again. Being. In bands my whole life I can't even imagine and I would not have taken five minutes. Yeah. you know. I don't care how. Good or important She is You know especially by being a lover to a particular member. Now that now, you have allies now now now the the dynamic shifts completely and utterly and. You just don't know how to respond or act to that I. Just you know I CAN UNDERSTAND A. Number one there I do not believe that Yoko had anything to do with breaking up John's marriage to Cynthia that was inevitable. and. If not heard some somebody else so that that there's nothing there whether Yoko is a you know a an avangard artist and the worth of our art I think in some ways that case has been proven that. while it is a very you know esoteric and and perhaps out there it still is art. It is meant to confront you and I think that's that's a good thing but her interaction with the Beatles and and be honest with you I think I blame John More than Yoko she just went along with this and he you know let's face it. He you know a lot of people say oh so and so. Has Daddy Issues I. think it'd be fair to say that John had mommy issues and Yoko kind of filled some of that that whole for him and at that time because he wasn't getting the emotional support from the the band that he considered his being you know he brought her in to to kind of help on that but in a bad way yeah, I mean he's Very Honda me of. Trying to be devil's advocate, but it's very hard to defend some of the CONDO. Do Place the time. John Wayne I offered out obey possibly Justin's to what was happening in this shoe. And you mentioned on the road. Did cotton and skull and no. On. An Wayne, a company. You can just imagine this scenario Georgia'll. Of because it didn't know what can join me. What's going to be tumbled can image Yeah. He has a couple keynote top tonight's. Is Head on. Heroin. But you can just imagine the scene. I was trying to make. This. AN ALBUM MOLES A. Account the Calibration Lake An Incomes Yorker with a bed with a microphone draped over the toll. I think NASA. Tipping Point I mean it's bad enough when you stop to offer. I'm solicited. Opinions on songs I think not we now because. As I mentioned I think join. possibly. He was really obsessed with you or you miss clearly upset. Yeah. And it's not a stretch to imagine the she had of Zandt -ment towards what's McCartney in particular because we? Point joining poll. Of the ones you then. You'll find the broncos on and they have this. Then he tightened relationship. No Yuko appears in the scene and he's completely infatuated by not just by. Stake -cially but intellectually. Lucy's himself and Yoko to a degree. So pose what you mess on the savings and he's watching. US relationship with e has based dating disappeared over the is I'd also be as creative collaborates dissipating over the is so if any hops deal west. Somewhere in the makes his jaw China's wondering what is going on. So. All makes this Pathak. Storm, of conflict. But you. Kinda me. Your involvement with joint the Eventual Cup of the Beatles s impossible. He factor but is one of many contributing factors to the Ohio. Yeah, I mean it's to me. It's. I the the the Allen Klein, and we'll we'll talk more in depth on that You know the business money side of things, creative differences all of that is completely understandable and that's a natural thing and it happens to a most organizations one way or another. You know if they've been around for a period of time but adding a significant other into the work environment they are they're always going to look at you and say that your the one, your the best you're the one that's carrying the load, your the one that brought this altogether your. Off because they that is their position in in a in a net normal natural relationship to begin with, and it just completely shifts the the dynamic I just don't see how you can get out of. This thing falling apart I think if you if Yoko wasn't in that particular position you know her and John Together and all of the stuff. But let's take the bag out of the studio Let's not have her there while they're working. And doing their thing you know things might be different but because that did happen you know it's I. Think a bigger factor. maybe secondary to the business aspects. There's an. shnell element. Christian and the problem. and. As a musician yourself, you understand this and a bind situation where you have Abedi dominant s analogy away join land. And you have A. Dominant personality, Paul County and he's watching the older the bricks in the wall come tumbling. I. Always Beach Ealing chief. He was a guy here. You know he would have kept going and. If he could. And he's. S side tumbling. And he's got choice. Does He. Does, he go to join and see join. Can Be just lead yokel say and you know whether reactions GONNA be. John Lennon with a going. Point at. The beach are ova. Yeah Yup. Cola. Is Benny much time to be a so Kofi Annan only beaches are team center the Henry Kissinger diplomatically? Yes. Diplomatic. Old All these different pieces together up while walking zoo aligned. Aligned maintenance infested field. I. Understand. What you're saying you know he doesn't want to you. Know is the beaches in an I and he doesn't know how to play. Apply. And subsequent events should. He raped. A It really hurt him more than any of the arrestees. Yeah Yeah So, how does how? Do you deal with a guy like landon and say to. The. Dude you can't bring your wife to rehearsals. Crazy. Hey Babe. Just, that one gets me every time I just I i. All I know is that I I wouldn't have lasted five minutes. The patience of job in Paul A let's say so the Allen Klein. Man seems to be this incompetent person most responsible for speeding up the process. He seems Trumpian in Ego and boast the fuck you money quotes You know the other thing is he's the only one Yoko liked. Like Oh man this is not working out very well I mean he says. In essentially a new. York. He was already manager of the students. A most. Unconventional broken guy over these konate shots on these pike. Not. To. HR overhaul could. Manage, Sancho and settling. Nacho fact for John. Lennon. But late in the underdog and signing again. Takes you. Christian Jewish. People. Who Don't you know you our Clayton one and having these Pudgy hines with glee? Close Bait Open able to manage the spine. And the and the other corner, and this again speaks to the developing conflict between John Lennon, Paul, McCartney in the Blue Kona. Rely I know we have joint Paul McCartney was speaking vent will join Eastman least. Smith. Was Being Misciano many well-known New York, shoe base family finally of low interest payment lawyers and and they couldn't have been more depth. Clay. s they had left in the Sea of tranquility. Recalling The. Wreak Privilege you know the five hundred dollar suits you know the the expense shoes expensive it's I. The good life. Complete justices of our incline. I'm landed right. We which she that I don't i. Can and it's extremely. Humid wanted to clean. But they were looking for business manager, they were looking for somebody to straighten out their business financial issue. I don't understand while the other three do not see through the the con of of Allen Klein and while the Eastman's you know smack of privilege. The fact is, is that I just of feel like they would have been able to straighten things out maybe AMS wouldn't have gone south northern songs maybe didn't go south and things like that, and you know the the other three just I it was almost like they just didn't want to do. What Paul wanted to do and and I get I, get from what you're saying I mean you know I the look and feel a you know a bunch of ugly Americans you know to begin with the of privilege not exactly a conducive to you know three scousers and you know oh in the fact that that you know they were GonNA end up being Paul's inlaws which you know is almost as bad as the the Yoko. Side of things with John. Only added to the COURT IS BETWEEN MCCARTNEY? I an Landon Ringo and George West Gist by by our claims. Hustle and I say. That you mentioned that you money attitude. Oh, you know you know wherever you want I'll get. I'll let to get named songs, which is a publishing company. I'll be able to get to nothing. You lived. Sucked in by the bombast by the false promises by the MT rates. And if somebody. Offers you out I'll get you a million dollars so nothing. Then that's good and there's certain basis. But to see too good to be true. Good. Lucille story sugar which. West, but as I said business naive I. Mean you must have member these useful guys who are still in the twenties. Mean landed in Landon wrinkle or only twenty eight. Still Young guys and been through a lifetime of experiences and everybody wants a piece of you and it's very, very hot who's the Biden the and all this But. POGBA US always in most social class coon justifiable and he in the same way that Lennon with a seduced by. What he classroom entity. My county was equal wasted. By the classes of the Eastman's sense you know you only have to go for Dinner Caesar Picasso here when we of crooning painting here. Thanks. Mia. So again, to principal to Alpha meals the bind in opposite corners businesswise. Hasn't passively because. Linda Yoko never going to be no based offense I need this is going to. Be in the spate of mines Konno's. Sold off all of a sudden. You call indefinite eighties you only went. May, agree on we're might find some calling ground even. Is a music. Yeah. Yeah. So let's take a little side trip. So during this time Ringo goes and makes a movie called the Magic Christian with Peter Sellers and what's really interesting about that is. That the Peter Oh came from this comedy troupe called goons and the Beatles loved the goons are, and in some ways you can kind of see that repartee. Of The goons in them in front of the press especially in the in the early days and then. In the movie is two members for Monty Python, Graham Chapman, and John cleese, which is like the next iteration of the goons of the Beatles and in that and I just it's it's to me to see all of that come together in this little side thing was was interesting. It's an interesting comedy crossover isn't it The next iteration of the goons McCain ice. was huge champion of Monty is. the most expensive home movie ever made. Was Life O'Brien. Pizzas Ringo Staunton how Unusual. Think Bingo stated. Assume, many different personalities and. You. Can See for one day to the next but to this guy talks. Briefly, called loosening. Wasn't. It can also took some of the last night by all the. Yeah when he got in same one of the things about the. What's your ties to people in us to bring some? Proper. Connection. Scenario at a spoke to push McDermott. I'm deb and he negatives. Mentioning you notice in the boot because Betty Nansen getting the sustainment. While winger was filming with sales. So on this potato on. Range that he would meet also. Beatles, and he was extremely nervous. because. Vani you. See I'm cynicism attached to photographers. More showing. Example. This guy is in front of all rituals I did find us up team when he's in find what? And Pizza sales dipped i. you Brunette what songs together so he was a good ally. And the court voice When. Trying to? Trying to soften with. This guy and Since the Gentleman Aiba Trust Bruce with my wallets and not quite y'all celebrate because he's not gonNA give, Huma. His own tree into the bind. Another monty python elements of at George Johnston said. And idol the BBC. Telecom BBC on any Fox night. Is was aired because he couldn't believe it was Susini. Couldn't believe it never appeared on television before. That they got away with Nicole. Isn't James You. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah that's that's a whole nother rabbit hole. Believe me I could go down but so let's let's get back to the business side of things. 'cause you know It seems to me the the loss of names and northern songs especially is just At such a hole to try to dig yourself out of when you begin to process the fact that you know your life's work. Things to other people. Yes. Not Benny. Swung any assume any? Of India Gong so should. Your On, with all these babies Oh that's you should've included data the in the bibliography. I middle of this Van Dyke of the Beatles. North. Northern songs. Again. Takes. was, willing. Is Publishing Company. And it was a last Bochco good on which the. Day Mass. The food is if you like because our unclaimed because it was a guy called James owned northern songs and he wanted to sell the company on storage to the highest. And this was one of the last moments where when McCartney in a business sense it was. Because, by together and they decided to prove the. Past. Businessmen sources to. Steve. Seymour's was seeing their songs insulted. So is better and the new of soaks the songs could be used for anything advertising jingles you name. and. Alan claim. Even broke laying on Eastman's together a short period to try and mobilize all the forces and and form a common front. If you're late to try and keep the Soames within the show Lennon McCartney. Of, course ultimately, it failed because the songs were bought by each. Bay. A company. On an Lennon McCartney loss control. Of the songs and of course, the implications of cascade through the decades ultimately to the likes of Sony Michael Jackson, which is a whole different student. When it was it was very important. I talked to him a bit context. One of the things that. Process, you can find that decision taken in January or February nineteen sixty eight you may not find a or the empire or the implications of my decision voice until before find Munster annoying. When they stopped trying to fend off committee aggressive move to keep somebody else to song briefed them. Eventually the wall stop fate Himba, mangy thank you. That was that was Lou grace. The same. Had ultimately washed the bottle. I'm the bullshit when Alan claimed. They next meeting A. Awful between John Lennon. McCartney Ringo Starr Joe Johnson was. Our Klay Museu. As twenty four hours, maybe forty hours since then and landon moist see the. Because wait flagship been hoisted had. Had No fifty percent control so they wouldn't own song had no control. And landed worst seeming. INTO ME TAKE Wasting saying new record do for capital? I thought our the royalties. Not, meeting as. The wine he wants to. I want a divorce. That's up to twelve. History has shown as. You know when just bought it. But if you enter the context of having wash control of his own songs, I think is. Quite. Mr To the whole thing that. That was the last. That was a fatal slow for John went in the beaches he might have to give. Give the Cat Assira another push. But when he wants to northern songs became up nothing. Woman ready to say to. The end game here and I think that was onis made. People just think he. Kept on seeing. No, I. Think we need to get back to shooting I think we need to get back to. Thank me need to. Find. And landed just kept on saying no, no no, and at some point I do think that it's been buried under sediment of time. One of the reasons why John Lennon. To. Because he was so angry. Song. Losing songs. Well he should have been angry at himself because the reality is that you know this all lands at the feet of Kline. He boasted and made the promise date. Names for nothing would be a problem getting You know the ownership of northern songs and he failed in those two a huge huge pieces of business. Now, he was able to negotiate new royalty rates with Sir John Lockwood of the capital And I think that kind of saved his ask what you say every deadly. I mean, even even to even after the. Songs. Names that tobacco. And this nearly that even. The skills never seemed to fall from when ice and he couldn't see Alan claim was. He was in my guy baking talk re small and small delivering. Action. And Me Reminds me of somebody. In the public eye today, let's see who might be. Interested to see the scale soul from the eyes of the American public over the next ninety days. or or we all end up like John? Lennon Great. Another side of thing that occurs. His the competing weddings. Yeah. Since thing isn't it? It's just. I mean when you're that famous. You know you. You're GONNA be splashed across every newspaper in the world when you get married and so I think you know a Paul Mary's I, and that pisses off John. Now what you have to ask you a question wonder what's the big issue here you know me John Wayne Wait to himself as. Often. Conventional and yet he doesn't use conventional thing you can imagine which is to get money. Now. He was the first. This simply Vibhuti even extended into the. McCarthy Odd Juxtaposition that might within a week of each other. to. joppy's American wife's district to photographer who aboard the plane and went. On. In Gibraltar. At up some fascinating stories on one Josh we be and the plane he didn't have better. Crooked Daiga and Situation Printing Golf will gave. To say, well, you such-and-such police such and such a came Pizza Brian me call apple in to. See. Your. Such things Hamdan on the and only when he was standing on the Tom as you to airport. Is the reason for them being there and these vibes who could I can just again, it seems so calm newly biking because they thought the why the phones working talks by. You. Know supplements. espionage sevices because the Beatles regarded as A. swanky establishing seems so bizarre. It does, but it's not out of the realm of possibilities doing what we know. Now of you know certainly the American FBI. and. Their treatment of John trying to become a citizen. STORY SEEMS TO BE A. Nixon open a book or John Lennon Emily's Johnny six nine now. Now, not long after his election victory and obviously Lennon's. Antiwar Stein's anti-vietnam stunts is materialized vote and sixty nine don't have ever closer to nexans attention. Away. Yeah I it certainly did to to stay in India United States when they they moved to New York. So. you know they do get back together to make one last album I. I. Don't think that I initially the the idea was to make one last album. It's just let's try to get the band back together. Let's try to get back to the way things where they brought George Martin back who had been left out of the let it be. Sessions to work on this thing that ends up becoming a Abbey Road But what's interesting and I, you know I I never quite picked up on this and I got this from your book and that is while both came with some strong musical choices certainly on the Lenin side of things there is a lyrical failure and you know I, you kind of exposed that, and now I went back listening to some of the songs Yo Sun. Kings perfect example where yeah you're right. There's just not a lot there there is there. Well I think an. Perhaps. Squad controversial by do think that joins head-on. Program will in nineteen, sixty, nine, hundred, artistic creativity to. I. Completely. Agree. I mean come. Oh and let it be checked. Good. Don't let me down his great psych. Course unit houses away of the previous. Was Awesome. So many high omits come together is poorly even know even after all these years one of the most popular tax on FM radio even note. What? The likes you think, what is he talking about I e maybe he it doesn't have to be token. Minnow. Just any also if you have a late. I one how she's so heavy. Only, something wait twelve. Watson. In the whole thing and it's an eight minute long. y'All. And I just wonder with any evidence as sentiment supposition. But I just wonder with a head of stymied has when. Empty slightly because Paul McCartney was come to cable with somebody song. Michio. Let it. Be is a very good example, a song which even probably become an anthem to the world and and some oppose Michio Watanabe. I will say you never get on East Greenwich. MAZING track. I of course, we all know her nice vary biting. One of the world's fastest songs re listening. Dan. And he has brought some degree medley silver. Joy Up. By can't join joins. Me Must must've once again you're looking at. But how many said Christian dust fat. Into the coin set of the album, the concept of the mainly and seamlessly. So you don't need to analyze. Elated Lenin. Himself explained I. Want You. She's so heavy. Along the flowing rains it if I see somebody zoning and don't next Asahi. Kaycee. Excuse me to be a better topic. Is there anything I can do to help you see? No Do, you have to do. He added a state, the context of the song. A mild point of view I'm just thinking it doesn't sound great come to means. Agree so. Many special please. Beatles finds off fictions. Yeah and it's been covered many times and. Rightfully so You know it's It is interesting though that you know you can really kind of see the heroin problem most overtly in in the fact that the the lyrics are so sparse and and and not up to par of what what he had accomplished in the past in you know I think you're right. You can just you know those slap it right on the addiction problem. When you look at some of the Pacers overtaken. Benny last pictures of them together as a bind. Much as it pains me because I might be. John John was the undoubted. Hot Bind. Binding spirit of the bind without him additional bind. And painful. To Watch. Some of these images from August who these creel, he's not wear. Any boy people controlling finds drink to some really good stuff. Chine, and. Get back to a sense but the of teachable. Benny beeped and he is A. Pinpricks and he just looks each. Miserable Miserable ask because it's not just the it's not just. And A until the. Fed Up and you have to say give them a Greek. Join. Doing. Thank you to where rail. Now now. But At the same time there are moments of joy and You know one of those, which is you know codified in in history I know of a little bit about is the recording of the ballad of John and Yoko about John and Yoko is marriage of which Paul. John Calls Up Paul one day and says, Hey, I got this idea for Song my income on on down and you know. Working on it and the other two guys are gone off doing their own thing and Paul. Of course, me Yeah Dalby right down and they spend you know eight to ten hours working on this thing, play out the two of them, playing all the instruments and the people around them have said that this was you know a just a normal joyous Beatles session between two guys who were supposedly at each other's throats. Joyous. Cushion. Actually don't I owe it to have the line through this maybe doesn't take so. And and you'd always. Does seem like the Beatles. Even know all handled the domes and you know. Some Guitar Watch and I think it does see. Even at the height of all the WHO is e even at the height of professional past deputies were able to set say I don't come calling to. And this spring the speaks. To, the enduring the hide and I think the oversight. Despite. All the sniping from the site joins older sniping megacity new I think think that you know the the still had this this attachment, each this point, another breakable going and is interesting I think. One thing John. Lennon's defenses John Lennon. It seems to me had an incredible ability. To Cope pop mental is his moods. You know. One day he would be shouting also insults McCartney would've business disagreement. I screaming and screaming his wife much who that must have been do. and. Then the very next day two of them sitting next to nose in a studio how many college to join Yuko as if nothing is. Exciting as decode actually does exist. So I do think it speaks to that. Ties bind. And I don't think he's. Really You know I always used to think of. This. That despite all the things waits. The people unite and the millions of fines. Wanted them at the end to end up with regarding, which is four guys who really loved each other. Really tight. And unfortunately feet just go. By is I. Yeah. Generally genuinely believed that. December the eighth nineteen, eighty January loved each other. Not Change. Sexual. No I I you know in the end, and that's that takes me back to the the beginning question of you know. Would they ever gotten back together and you know again I just think. Had Lennon lived Over something would've would've put them. I it would have been 'cause in into me I keep looking at live aid and say you know Geez that that eighty five at the perfect moment for them you know Geldof, and his 'cause. He was able to convince so many others to to jump on this train There's no reason why he wouldn't have been able to figure out a way to make that happen but you know again that's conjecture You know we'll. We'll never know but I gotta say that we have a mutual friend who was there at the recording of the ballad of John and Yoko in you quote in your book and that's John Kosh a con host on on on our network I've heard the stories from from from cash on you know the the end of that last year because he was there are all the time and then you know he was really John Guy. He was brought in by John and got worked on the ors over campaign and things like that But he was also directly responsible in putting together the cover of the his first album a cover of what she's done over twenty five hundred nowadays. But you know imagine that your first album cover is Abbey road You. Know under under his art direction as as the guy putting it together, and it's an interesting story. How that all comes about and you know a th there's all kinds of issues going on back and forth and you know Cauti- makes the decision of not putting the band's name on the cover of this new album put out. Yeah I mean you know again Colossians one of these guys I. If I can get in touch with them. Then he might be not always used these Christian if you can cheese. And some people told me story so often forget the Hooghly desolate people are always in our main. Studio older fight the one that beach does not appear. On the cover of. The students healthy screen because he was a young guy. Standing much join guy go. Quinn. Lot, which is Jim. Yeah I phone don't that one was no. Any area on on the album cover g went absolutely molesting cost to view whether it be conscious Vaso Botvinnik. He kicked you. Only have to do is look at the cover of this album and if you know these guys and welcome to. then. You're living somewhere else. So he view the and of course, jobs law which. He thought that would be commercially disastrous I and I. It's the o'clock in the morning foon. CAUTI- GonNa. Expand and. Upper class towards shall we say? For, this mission. She. Thought would cost. Millions of pounds I helped him win and albums before she looking at known anybody who doesn't orgies guys are. Coming from another planet coming sky in Europe. Right Right Right So let it be. They are able to kind of resurrect this and now they're you know they're competing versions out there. Let it be naked which is really Credited to to Glyn Johns and how he put it together or versus Phil? Spector. Do you have a preference? I quite liked joins mix Yeah quite join makes A. Beatles unplugged in a sense. Won't before entity arrived in the scene? And it does how stop miss which is quite appealing. and I can understand that you know this. a division of opinion between. The long way. And, the orchestrations has been applied to does. Cycling. Sickly sweet. Been Young Christian and the only best night but him. into the bind was the spectrum. So you kind of become very accustomed to. and. I don't heat I can understand why accountant he did because it was a decision taken against his rushes. Has Control I being a consultancy understand with then I get. them off. So Do Glenn joins makes his respect deserve some. Upbringing by the way of the Cross universe from the dead and went to. Is a great side, the album. With I think they'll. Hansson leap which is much more prominent. As opposed to the single version. So. You know it's one of those moments not. Until ends. In Quench Joyce Mixes. Be Interesting will be whether we get your. Commitment. With with the People Jackson movie right. We've Yeah of course well. I'm sure Giles will want to put his fingers on on that. Hasn't has been. Yeah is what he is accomplished. Yeah. Yeah Yeah Yeah. There's there's no two ways about that that the Giles Giles's done a good job of of resurrecting these sounds and making them making them a little bit more modern. Enabled to probably haven't even longer life than than they had. So. So we said that you know September Twelfth Nineteen, sixty nine when the first Beatle John Up. You know makes a real declaration of independence that sticks but climb pleads for him to keep quiet. And he doesn't he doesn't that was another thing I. I didn't know that he had a spoken to a journalist and told him I think during the Toronto Plastic Ono band, the first show of that that act that now the Beatles were over but you can't say anything but John expected him to say something. Yes. It was actually in Canada towards the end of the year RIA. Mooney Hawkins was one of the old. That's right now, this is the second. This was this was the second trip back when they appear trigger. Oh. Counted out. On and near December. And the guy you mentioned this comfortabe connolly voice a London evening. Standard. Fruit and was counts he was very friendly with. Wayne in I'd Macau I woke Donghai wire. Between Truism you'll embedded careful nor to tying Eichel one or the other and as John Lewis Document now ebbing record away. To. Con. He's actually met with landed top this farmstead and when I just come over. Here. I I couldn't wait to tell she's So he grew. And he says the before even say this whole. Details. Now, this happens I could maybe two months after after he said to McCarthy's because as I was with camera knows. Nobody news from John C. Diesel. No. Not Not he's aren't shell we. We'd seen Ringo leave and come back with George. Leave and come back. So nobody's quakes your. Guys I was only joking. Banded. Granddad Conway chums out to see him in. Canada, the fussing wedding system is. Of the Beatles. And make currently. Most. Shocking East paying thinks he's sitting on the show best biggest inch of the worker. Is. The PS but you can't tell anybody. Well you can't. You. Can't tell. Until I'm ready. So. then. You know I saw generalized into view of life was the landon. He doesn't mention John Lennon has. Messed up, which is not tell me to keep it quiet. And Currently scientist. Then tell anybody not so and then five there knowing hormonal issues, foucault album and say the so while q name and the. Makes it betty create. Beatles and it's all up. So they call. BITCOIN is. Fueling record. To. Louis. I Landed of course, it's own themselves because also. Headlines over the world although. A way because he. said. Becomes the villain knowing the story. At the moment. And of course, Landon says to me, why did you? May Conway said well, you told me not. And he said you the Degel you'll login. Why can't you rate? So you know think recalling me what's Ain't say thought he was being set up. Because when You've been able to assess the Disaster I Regret. He missed on the you say the shortest strip, August Korea. Right. Right yeah. So Paul on April one, thousand, nine, hundred seventy does a self interview and that now is considered the the official announcement though I think some still held out hope throughout nineteen seventy wouldn't you say? Yes there was always a possibility it could get together again. You. Know I mean people always older is all branch the some of it own the way don't can. I think the. Wrong. Things will last. Then you mentioned alert the concert for Bangladesh and George Harrison's fussing with all things must pass all things must pass. Yeah. Strong efforts off. And then you go into plastic ono bind. He's already done McCartney. And saw my son. Not, exactly a strong effort. But. We, we know he was going through some very, very difficult to eat i. think he emotionally suffered the most of. I think he was tenable. Pointed terrible blow in his personal life You know he's smoking before. You drink too much alcohol. It's not really like you kind of could Zoro himself on site inside depression. And eventually, of course, he had to take the session. He was the one who tooted decision not. An author for head to break away from the beach he had new auction. But Too Soon Beatles and author the company to be rescinded. Yeah I say that the the end of the beales is December thirty first nineteen seventy when the lawsuit is filed officially when when Paul sues the other three Beatles and their management would you say that that that's a? Facial Wayne in the signed. Christian with. A novel by viewing to a long time for the winds to heal for the. Toxic and. These winds were safety, and of course, you stopped to each other songs. In the press and when we do not so he just gets. As he was. Asleep and this unfortunate. The war between them was played. How quickly because it didn't do either any fevers and. Of course, it may find's. United joins. Count. On a union culture how? And it just added to the code is. Picking the binding itemized or you need love couldn't find that seem wealth when Needed it most and by the ten months. Yes. And even off the land in and hottest. Basically wise up and the skills that ice and the shot while claim. By but I. Companies. Can Use Finding Divine I. Owe a sudden. Made. No I think I think. You mentioned to ever colder combine a hobby. If John John said, let's let's put it back together. Yeah Paul would have would have figured out a way to make that happen and and you know in today's world. It's funny. Have had many discussions with. You know with the legends in their position where you know. In the back in the day you either were abandoned, you weren't a band. Now Band can go on hiatus. They can do solo projects and come back together after a few years and everything's good and you just pick back up which you know in a weird sort of way just seems normal and the idea that you know an artistic endeavor should just end. you know just goes to show just that that you know the commercialization of the corporatization side of things the business side of things just takes over so much that you you inevitably just take on the language and the expectations of a business as opposed to you know four guys getting together making music always take the you know that if I, if I get a couple of obvious question. I see a bind Susan in rockall number. You, know. The famous famous armistice poem, each shallow weedy then I she these four guys walking sides a walking is Zebra crossing an into history I enough saints? Quick. Pass new point you. Not. Because there was no L. Aesthetically, it makes perfect second. More diminishing towns by you may get by five years, you might get back in ten years. And you make an album of course new you hold off against you hold up to the light against the white album. Well, it's not quite. Better To The beachell sailed snow doing album is an analyst sudden your reputation in your legacy and keep before New to get it by because all of a sudden looking a law of diminishing returns if you look find the students who I walked. Over the years. Or seven after seventy, eight it's really a classic in their. Becomes difficult. I'd all of a sudden they have become even aware for the fine to the do you call the? hoppy. But oh I just saw them last year believing he. Just, is great and as far as the lion ban, they're just as good as. or You just said but but as far as putting music together getting composing that You just say. Says, my argument. Become you know Soviet bind I've foods, and. Goods. Are would have heated onto the Beatles ran by the become. A abundant eagles example even glades knee having. To. STOGIES and they satisfying. Thing you? Conscious Obese Puglia on the style Jer fleetwood. Come into the. And incident. That's okay. There's no law that says you can't do that. I. For, the Beatles I have wanted to be able to look at. And say, that was a moment where student Vienna and and everything. Of what I'll coach where I give tinder integrity under trade ago a bond. So, as we said, you know. December thirty first nineteen, seventy We both agree is the end of the Beatles officially a, but you know a Lotta people point to Altimonte as the end of the sixties and I completely disagree I think that's too easy. A point to I I personally think at the end of the sixties comes with the end of the Beatles that really they are the cultural touchstone of the decade if not the late twentieth century and maybe even the entire century and you know they. End on December thirty, first nineteen seventy. So wouldn't that make the better you know if I if you had to point a finger which is difficult for archaeologists and historians. But if you're at a point finger at a particular moment, like some have done with Almonte, I think a better marker is December thirty first nineteen seventy would say man December yet absolutely that mass movement in the signed where those no real of not of the Tom and once you start bringing in lawyers and I mean I mean, not the ban raising six game. Franken. Slow I. But I mean, I mean the nineteen sixties not the band but the entire decade comes to a close on December thirty first you know as opposed to. December thirty first nineteen. Sixty to. Six, year. B B because that is the end of the Beatles, and the Beatles are really what the sixties you know. are really about this. You know this, they were the the soundtrack of the decade they pushed the envelope that commented on the Times The Times a affected them you know that just they are in in. Encased in that counterculture more so than anything or anybody body, and it just seems to me that if you WANNA point a finger at a particular moment, it's not altimonte it is them and it has to be their demise which occurs exactly one year later on December thirty first nineteen seventy. John and I am. because. Near the end of the your book, you suggest the nineteen sixties provided a small window when a chunk of humanity briefly realizes its moral potential and flirted with a collective belief that the love you take is equal to the love you make. McCartney's flaming me such a such a lane and it just seemed to sum up everything about them. You know especially when it came to young people, they they able to marshal a movement even able to. Make people feel better boat themselves through the Music Mindy said to me by the Beatles so much. I love home abides talk when the students all the classic opened by. I can usually go from Warsaw to metallica often shooting, Butson also, Noko. Ended up. Using the soldiers meeting hockey. soulmate me hockey and. You'll never see a pdf investing again I think we have so many young people way out sue motivated to be a movement for Change. Unfortunately change as A. Constant it's never it's never when police it went team. Moved be nice if it was. Eminent nervous but for that. Because you did mention ultimately and ultimately. Changed things in terms of. Moot. CINCINATI him but for a short pdf in history I think Beatles affected some kind of social and cultural change which was good for the Klina. Once, again. And that's too bad. So you know. What was it about them in your opinion that we all still obsess about just four regular blokes from northern from a northern English town playing American style music. I. I mean it's the ultimate. What can move Ettelaat and say a conundrum you why fifty years? Ago Is let you and I made. A young minds game but somehow. The songs have. Appeared songs seem to up taking on a life of the wind and. Songs. But enmeshed in the middle of oldest. Personalities. All John Lennon. McCartney Thomason. Bingo stop and they seem to have deacon on I. said he if he should especially medical I mean that's a lot of people in America who stole a gallon, the Beatles even sixty. Sixty years old fifty five years on I some candles. Coaching divinities. Held in his high an eye, the sound become. Influential. Because they all have. Influenced so many binds subsequent to so. Does speak to the quality have but. As I mean you know? Why did we still talk about? So many years after the after the events. Why do we still talk of? You know what we? Re told him. He's a quarter century. Half a century. We still talking but the Beatles, another fifty years type when you and I are pushing up. Now it's a nice probably yes. Because there's always something you you can find and that's why I wait wait. Equate the for me a phone something you. Post something using the table. Now who is covered and see the painting decades has done in a connor. Lacking Roy. And never spoken before so that I, always Louisiana can be teased. With the beach seem to absently. I saw phenomenon also to win and I don't see changing I think no, always be something you ended the. Music all songs. I think it was a very, very special time. That is. Something I harp on of over and over again, that you know musicians weren't treated You know like mythic creatures before The rock and roll age and you know now it seems that the sun is setting on musicians being treated that way again, you know you know this this is this is not how music normally works it just you know it became you know the Language of for at least two generations if not three generations and it's been replaced. music doesn't hold the same sway that it it for for people like you and I you know social media is now people have asked me well, what does think it's hip hop rapping a no no, it's not music at all. It's it's social media. Now is holds the same place that music did for. People of our. Age So. you know you quote Lenin in the book. After he gives back his Mbe talking about the communist menace and American paranoia and him basically saying America won't be overrun by communists it will fall from within. he was trying to quote Sin Zoo their the art of war. So was he just pressing? Your. Lunch and I was you being prescient? An interesting. And you know John John Join boys interested in politics but. Also I sit nobody attached Yorkers anybody. Can text poetical beliefs by doing anything license? What he'd been Crescent, it's an interesting some interesting observation, I mean John Lennon in eighteen issue. I. Can Question. Would you how? Would you been in a motivated by? Come, American politics of US myself that question Ma'am American politics are love reading about not just come climate over the come climate makes it more fee but I. I don't. Make me wonder woodland if he had been alleged. Being motivated to. Speak against the administration. Now says, no, I mean John Usually after double fantasy. The couch. You say. What you continue point life and maybe you`re It's one of those. By. Don't think you've been about. I think I can see that with some authority. I agree. I think I think he would've spoken up and you know it's interesting that you brought up at yeah Born nineteen forty he would have been eighty this year and it makes me think of any boils last film yesterday where you know the the idea of of a world without the Beatles what WH- would. They still have been huge in you? Know you know to Danny's movie? Yeah. They still have been. It's because of the songs it's all the banners. Well. I saw movie 'cause you guys my wife. Tell you this I. Sat here and saw why didn't I think of that? Why didn't? I mean think. So simple. Why the blazes? and. I think we all did. I can because you always looking for something that hasn't been done and the interesting thing the Beatles legacy in January. One of the visas for hops as because of the Taiji who stroked the join line and thanks to the host on his Mata in eighteen eighty had gotten hopkinton. Perhaps. Uti May know how I quite smart people stuart. But. It's incredible to think that. In December before to use as really. Yeah Yeah. Well. Ken mcnabb, thanks so much for being with us on deeper digs today what Chris it's been my obsolete plays I only hope people can understand this accent combinations between Sean Coney in one. So Schumer so buoyed. And so hit. And hopefully, I'm obsolete donated booster seat when America Wasa friends Medicare never forget as. It's better well received a on this eight of. An America was a promise lines, the Beatles. Sweeter. Sweeter. On Nosy Woah you're such a US Asti bikers of black American music with which and the middle. Zanny keen to emphasize point and they lost Dominica and I think a account he's been shown over all these years America's Luxembourg. Activation of area. Wise words I convey. Atkinson. Any Scottish. that. This has been MIJIC. Know Wow. I just have to say as the rock and roll archaeologist. First of all I, just love anything about the Beatles and Ken has done a great job of factually taking what we now know would fifty year rear view mirror and peace all the contention, the inviting the little things that add pebbles to an already growing mountain of crap. Do go out and grab his newest book and in the end the last days of the Beatles wherever you get your good reads, and especially, if you're a Beatles, not only his Beatles in Scotland is a must have for those funds net ticks. All right. Okay not much on my mind this week well other than a little vacation from podcast land. Yep I'm going to UNPLUG probably the most I've done certainly since the beginning of the pandemic where I literally do work almost seventy s a week in probably even before that Probably since last year that I've been able to really really unplug. So I'm looking forward to that but real quick. I don't know if it's just me. But we've we found this interesting thing about the Beatles songs whenever we go to find the perfect one for a situation. They, almost all weirdly fit for whatever the occasion. or or maybe a set of songs to choose from always seems to fit and there's always a Beatles song to fit any occasion weddings, funerals announcements praise melancholy what your needs might be Lennon Mccartney have what you want. It's weird. I haven't quite come across this with any other ban usually I have to think about it or worse. There is nothing exactly like I want to say subtly in a song that belongs in context to what I'm talking about. Especially in the rock rock geology podcast. The Beatles just seem to have a song that fits for any need. It's like the hallmark card selection at your drugstore. Anyway. Something for all of us to ponder while walking in the woods or not enough to sleep a try it sometimes, and you'll see whatever the occasion there really is a Beatles Song. Obviously it speaks volumes to their universal appeal and even fifty plus years on. They are still part of the Zeitgeist. Okay. That's it. For this episode next time I will be amongst friends and colleagues very excited about this upcoming show when Pantheon podcast host of side Jams Brian Reese men. and dear, friend of this podcast and Brian your dear friend as well. Journalist extraordinaire Jeff slate. Join me to break down to old time rock and roll films recently given the DVD upgrade treatment up Brian did the new commentary on the David Essex and Ringo Starr vehicle from nineteen seventy-three that'll be the day which is an early rock and Roll Tale set in fifties. UK Very different than What was happening in America the music you cross the oceans. You know the culture of the society were very, very different You know postwar England was you know not experiencing the boom in prosperity that? Post War America was, and that comes through in this in this picture. In in in many instances, it's it's definitely one to to check out and to get a different perspective on how the UK was back in the the pioneering days, rock, and roll and then. Jeff joins, US where he and Brian Provide the commentary on film called pop gear. It was called Popular in the UK Aka Gogo. Menia in the states, which is a collection of UK ax in nineteen sixty, four presented on camera. Know I kind of like for the kids to sample Well, let's just say we all have a lot of fun and lass. So make sure you come back for that one. All right that's it. I am off a wish me luck and hopefully come back charged up and ready for more. Of course I will until then I'll let Paul have the very last word. And you'll keep up the rockin. Pretty nice girl she doesn't have a lot to say. Nice girl but you change today. But I'VE GOTTA get a belly full of wine. Nice. GIRLS THEY WANNA make a mine. Deeper. Digs hosted by Christian Swain. Produced by Chris Wayne and Peter Ferry Farrelly. Sound designed by busy signal studios engineered by Jerry Daniels. Cristiano, Donald and Leslie Barker. Find Olive, our shows, notes, and social links at Pantheon. PODCASTS DOT. com. Contact social at Pantheon podcast on facebook and instagram. tweet US at Pantheon pods. All songs can be found using this podcast for purchase or streaming wherever you get your great music. Please pick up these amazing tracks. Hi Their pop is greetings from rocks back pages in swinging London town brought to you by the Pantheon podcast network as Bob Dylan Sang. We were so much older than younger than that. Now cannot possibly be true. No, we are young at heart and we do have heaps of fun when we invite special guests to join us and discuss everything that's new and cool on rocks back pages the online library of music rising guests have included petro boy. Neil tennant film director, Mary Harron ramones manager Danny Fields Creation founder Alan, McGee, and countless stars from the world's music press. 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