Fitbit for pets and can Maru stop online bullying?
Serious question as your cat reached its daily step counts. Yes this week on. Download this show the fascinating. World of fitness trackers for pets. This more reasons for it than you might think also on the show across the world more than half of girls online have experienced some form of harassment or abuse. But can it be tackled by check. Bought an automated pace of technology to advice on how to deal with it and twitter have unleashed the lightest new failure. And in surprise to precisely no-one lots of people are complaining. What is it and other really brought to the complaining but find out this. Is your god do the weekend media technology and culture. My name is marc fennell and woke up down by this. Yes data is downloaded. And we are joined by technology writer. Reporter andy breakfast. Presentative ibis say west implying. Nikki haley lovely bay and she is a psychologist. She's a sophist psychologist cyber psychology research. I knew i'd sit. It would get me jocelyn borough. Welcome back down the shai. Thank you thank you all right. So we're gonna walk across a few things in the show but i wanna start with something. Very strange happened to twist in the last couple of days. What is it. it's cold colder flight Another in a long line of twitter. Faith.' that nobody else for knows what to do with the basis of it is a bit like a a story on facebook or instagram. It's a tweet that disappeasr twenty four hours later theoretically a the appeal the tweeting without consequence. Now i'm going back over twelve years of things you've said to bring out later on if if you is in trouble but twenty four hours disappearing tweet. People have been saying that appear at the top of the app and paypal and not enjoying it. I can tell i got. I think you're being very generous with it. Is one hundred percent or rip off of instagram. Stories was a rip off of snapchat jocelyn. Tell me i'm wrong. You completely correct. I think they should have just called. Brain fought though because it seems like we were already kind of just tweeting out. It was kind of like that internal part of your brain now. We haven't even kind of less permanent aspect of that on twitter and can't do fight always in man why couldn't they just give us the ability to correct typos instead. That's the only thing. I think that twitter actually needs to be doing right now. The part of this. I found confusing papal used to using inscribe stories or even facebook stories which is remarkably similar. Why has it been a negative reaction to literally the same functional piece of technology on twitter. Just like why do you think there's been that reaction look personally. I think that many people use twitter and completely different way to why they use the other platforms and soifer may. It is much more of an academic space. I guess a workspace. It's not as personal and definitely not as visual an iconic understand what turned into he because it easel about kind of not having the pressure on things being there forever and being trolled through and that potentially being used to ruin your life if he did say them at a time. Where maybe you you've changed your opinions. And things like that. But i i don't know i think twitter's really busy and we go there for different things so let's just kind of yeah not have so much noise. We use these social media's bases in very different ways i don't think we want a homogenized experience across all of them i mean for me. Twitter is mostly about sort of you know maybe a little main occasionally. But i'll get very time bought facebook's about being earnest and and i don't really use a lot of instagram to be perfectly honest dies. I just don't understand why. Twitter thought this was necessary when there are so many other options about this and i think you and i have had chats about these in previous incarnations like i think when instagram stories we will like what hang on. Hasn't snapchat got this covered. We do this every single time. Trying to get young to kind of use it. He's that kind of one of the things that you know. Maybe missing from twitter because life is not the same Younger demographic who were doing the tiktok so the all that kind of jazz. I'm just trying to get. This is the sort of thing where like we winge about it now but in four months time rojas using it because i vaguely remember having the same reaction to instagram stories story. We did but you also remember the reaction when twitter changed a favorite to a hot. Yes backlash against utah. One the fault might be with us down. I never thought. I would say that. But i think maybe we just i think people get really funny about changing me. Spaces like remember. When easter the only status update on facebook could do was like framed in jocelyn eve johnson. We really freaked out when that change. And every time there's a reformulation of the layouts are instagram. The layout at the moment. I can't find my notifications because they've moved to the top and so we do take time to adjust to that and we get because i think we're using it so often we on autopilot when we are looking for these things anything new feels like. Oh my gosh who's vein in my space sometimes is that we have that reaction like like. I'm not necessarily asking you to to a psychological assessment of the uses of twitter here. But but what is that that that sort of that is their accountability that we get with user interfaces. That is hard to bright johnson. Yeah i think so. I think we get used to knowing things are and it feels like the furniture being rearranged when we have no control over it like we can try laundryman. Oh the on different walls. So obviously there's reasons why they do that so that we're not getting comfortable when we are kind of having to rediscover a news more attention to Be become more engaged again So this cognitive Lloyd i guess that goes into all whereas this gone an exploring it and then getting used to it. So it's just kind of shake us up and rattles back into paying a bit more attention to that particular platform. I think we don't tend to light change but then we also tend to forget. That happened sort of after we've adjusted to it Go back to win. People threaten to quit quit instagram on mass. Because they changed the way the gradient worked in their logo. You remember that. Believe it or not. I have forgotten this incredibly huge event. At the time. I will say this in classic twitter style. I haven't made this to work particularly well. We've already seen it work around that. Let people look these twenty four hour disappearing flakes well after that twenty four hours had expired. No no twitter fixing that now but it doesn't seem to have been rushed and i find that really curious in the same wake. Instagram also rolled out a new version of its app with a pretty significant giants to his layout and and and they could be. I'm just calling different people. But i feel like the backlashes bane as dramatic even though i think they've actually changed quite a great deal to instagram. And one of the things. I've noticed is when i put my finger. I have different parts of instagram. A little pop up. Hey this isn't where it used to be. It's now up there. Are they things you can do offline. Innovative design particularly something that people use so instinctively that the thing is not to go to a certain part of the screen things. You can do that help. Make that transition feel less jarring for people. We can warn them. That it's coming rather than just kind of popping up and i think even with the business suite that facebook is using it has been that transition and there is you wanna use the old kind of interface or do you want the news. So there's of these choice point before they throw you into the deep end so one is just preparing the brighton. For for the fact that change is coming and then absolutely kind of guiding you to things might bay At an an. I guess giving you a little she to'real when you update your apple. Whatever to actually show you where things have moved to and kind of. Yeah she you into that new space. Generally there don't move anything i mean. It's so intuitive. Like the you know the little icons a little icons. He just talked to scan a little bit harder to find them again. It's getting you to pay attention and re retune habits tori that new Interface interfaces interesting because interfaces separate two features again and i think we're more resistant to additional features maybe than we ought to an interface design will initially get cranky. But if everything we're looking for is still there will adjust to it quickly any fatal especially one on for especially on a service where we have been asking for change and significant change and not getting it. There's a frustration he. There's always a sense that we're not being listened to as users and i think that's what three really kind of peoples are up on this download. The show is what you're listening to. It is your god to the week. In media technology and culture we have psychologist jocelyn bra joining us and nikki. Technology writer and breakfast presented with abc western plains. Mock fidel is my name and it has been cold. An anti harassment chat bot. That's been designed by young people for young people and i want to get into wide exists. But let's start with what it is jocelyn. Can you introduce me to to monitor. What exactly is it is a chat. Bot we'll help you do with. I guess guide you through what to do if you're being abused or harassed online so it works like many chat box chat bought it uses and l. pay not neuro linguistic programming note natural language processing so basically econo- guesses and has look what kinds of questions that people might ask in the space in the way that they might frame them and they kickoff a conversation to help you actually navigate through what to do. If you're experiencing the different forms of what we innocently. I guess would commonly cold cyber abuse. Soy the a safety commission has a whole section for adult cyber abuse. That includes things like doc. Single date fakes and stuff like that. So it will literally is a little not human thing which will help you navigate that information to try and get the help that you need when given the The research plan deed around these was that huge numbers of women and girls are experiencing on harassment so this as mentioned dot com from the girls rights organization plan international. Any technology collective feminists nick. If i was to open it up. I'm just on a visual level. What does it look like. Sort of designed to actively. Avoid so the gender stereotypes. It's been quite clever in that regard. But how do i interact with. The default was the target audience for it. Look it does look like chat window and it's really quite fascinating have apply with because it gives you options of how you want to respond. But the very natural language as jocelyn was saying so essentially. You feel like you're engaging in a conversation you not in your responses you choosing from a limited range of responses but it does feel like a failing natural conversation in a chat style window. We see that young people especially have a preference for online communications or something like kids helpline actually off online chats and things like that because they're much more comfortable in that online space and saw given that where we're really dealing with hundreds of thousands of people across the globe pre potentially these information. It's a really cost effective. And affective i guess way of looking at what are some of because it gathers information. I guess as you by stone were asking questions. About and kind of issue. I you experiencing so it's actually gathering daughter as it guards and then directing paypal to obviously the trusted sources of information. So i think it's effective and it feels A gap to the degree that it can maybe help with some lower level experiences and then direct on the right actions to take so. You'll lower cool Police would you safety commissioner. If you're in australia for instance so it's that intermediate step that's really helpful and it makes people in a space that they're really comfortable. That's more just concerned with it as how it is i guess marketed one of a better term. Wanna make sure that people using it understand that. It's it's providing information. It's not a counseling service. Which i just worry when we hear the term chat bot yeah given that there is such a rise of that great chat based influ devices when it comes to counseling that people do understand this is about information and i think it works pretty quickly like one of the first things that will say is are you safe and you have an option to indicate. Am i safe no. I'm not safe. But i don't know what to do. So that then will open up. I guess the next decision tray of what you what you want to answer as to where you are and then direct you in the right place. So i mean i guess i was conscious of interacting with it because i was like well. I'm not paying her. So i don't want to take up your time and there was like all right. But you'll notice person euro-border a dozen matter which is exactly why it can be so effective. Is it tells them you know. As long as the back end can manage of queries coming in I'm not necessarily using up your counselor. kids helplines time by Exploring that with with an actual person. I guess so see. That's exactly the thing i not abroad. How does it change. How does it change a person's interaction if they know if they know that it's not real like do you think china's abba hy-vee the sorts of questions you ask if you'd realize is there's not another person on the other end of the line yes the anonymity effects i guess is what drives a lot of terrible behavior online but also is what allows people to be more authentic and take risks with asking for what they need saw To some degree. I think yes the you might actually be more honest with something. If you know that you're not necessarily being tracked Or you're not face to face with another human let alone just typing to another human. So i think it works in different ways for different people based on what their concerns are because with maru you have limited responses anyway. So there's a limit to how much difference you can be giving in those responses. That's right a very specific kind of area that it's looking at when you go outside of the itself onto the website. There's an incredible amount of Racehorses they're in a lot more information and kind of help guides own different kind of it was designed Certainly not within. Australia was designed with the act of all around the world. How did i sort of accommodate for cultural differences in communications jocelyn Look i think that have just Really exploited from different an. I think this is built into the chapel when economy. Indicate where you are that we some of those differences Show up There's obviously a an lbj. Lbj t q a Element to that And as i guess that collaborative nature of just An the research itself which is brought up exactly some of the challenges in those different regions an and the stylized Of abuse whether it be kind of slut shaming or Homophobia all of that sort of stuff. Nick the other things like this around the world that already existed in otherwise. I've seen a lot of chat bots when it comes to mental health. And there's been some really intriguing ones out there from whoa bought to Wiser a number of those. They tend to work The short term goal oriented Johnson took more about these but they tend to be more around cognitive cognitive behavioral. Therapy changing those behaviors. They've really affected. There's been a lot of research done into just what is going to mean for the mental health and on a couple of years ago twenty four different chat bots were kind of Put under the microscope and there was a lot of hope that in a couple as we could say some really really interesting things being done in that space so yeah. There's a lot of work being done here. Yeah got really fantastic example Again you know some of these scores little way to deal with the intermediate issues that people might have indirect people through some of the basics of cognitive behavioral therapy And sometimes can do a better job than maybe i would do face to face in therapy because it sticks to the script and actually speaks to Exactly you know i'm human. I'm gonna ask a whole bunch of questions whereas if we would when we manuals sabe and one of the reasons that you know some people would say it's not effective anymore as effective as it was when it first came out people go off the script a lot more they. Introducing flack Therapy into it and and it's not a pure form that someone like iron beck who created it actually would have delivered as standard is party. Call so We actually can track People who are using these and measure the outcomes of things like what really well Because it is is but then again just like with marar we really want to be able to capture people who are maybe not benefiting from that is other coma did koi. He's going on and other things that they actually been your need the The nuances of of human observation and conversation to pick up the the gaps and fill those gaps in. What support for johnson. Just three people listening to this might not be familiar with that concept of cognitive behavior. Therapy walk us through. What exactly is seen as one of the most well recognized kind of therapy with the biggest evidence base so the very basic solve. It is the three as well. I generally share with moist clients. The first one easy to catch yourself having a negative thought or habit loop from the one that you can't get you know getting yourself talking to check in with that foot two rue. He's a evidence for it is helpful. Does it actually moving towards where you want to be and then to finally change so actually shift. Oh flip the thought into a more positive iteration of what you're actually your goal is the way you wanna be. What role do you think. Artificial intelligence can play in cognitive behavioral therapy in the future. If given that it is sort of methodical at its buys. We've had fantastic programs for many years for mu gm you. I'm gonna forget all the names of the ones that have come out through from you know old different organizations For several are usually their web based the fact that they're moving more. I guess to Apps and that mobile aspect again just Port a lot of ability to deliver. The menu is standardized. Kind of program into your fine so I guess many paper That sense of. I'm not really talking to a human and getting the language rights are really getting the empathy in the responses and even the kind of local language the way that you would talk to retain now versus even a couple years ago. Some of the woods that he'd us might be a little bit different so It's all about obviously with iot needs to cape learning and it needs to cape adopting and it needs the people who i guess program it to cape adopting it as well. Sorry just specifically with tackling harassment. Nick the other programs out there that stood out to you as being particularly effective at dealing with it may be creative in how they deal with online harassment. Look nothing like the synoptic. Been really intriguing about it Dc's taking it to a level where it's a pro ching the people who are being targeted in a way that they can feel comfortable communicating comfortable talking about what's upsetting them as well as giving them access to the information. I need a daunting anything's done. At quotas intriguing lays down. There was a little while ago. I don't know that anyone caught the goodness spots. No what's that couldn't goodness kindness going to have like a mind fun. Around these monica lewinsky had announced and basically if somebody had tweeted you something a bit main you tweeted goodness bought or the cons and it would tweet you back the kind of more positive version so it would almost. Cpt the the rookie rookie tweet. It's something with having i remember. I used to feed it things for a while. The opposite of trolls. Yeah yeah you get the kindness bought to do it for you. I love some of this invasion and even on a more basic level I know this year. A text based counseling service really took off for people in rural areas. Where maybe an app wasn't perfect. Certainly a web chat wasn't quite. I weren't comfortable talking to someone face to face but actually takes back and forth with a real person was an incredibly effective wife them. I think we're we're approaching. These mental health concerns by targeting. What a person is capable of dealing with capable of opening up to. And i think that's really essential and we've gotta get creative about that is possible download. This show is the name of the program. You're listening to these. You'll god to the wake. In media technology and culture you listen to the voices of psychologists jocelyn bro. she's the founder of digital nutrition and also nikki haley who is technology writer and the house of breakfast on the western plains. Marksville is my name and does your pet native fitbit. I feel like. I know the answer to this. One really stretching the would need there because that is the thing that nikki haley exists have existed for a long time. But i love the so much i genuinely. I really do this one in particular the series tag. These are the guys who did the accounts that have to get the fifth and look. I love the idea. So we're talking about dogs cats eighties monitoring their movements but when it comes to an animal we learn so much from their movement so we can learn health. We can learn mood but we can also learn going during the diet. You can track them no just for health but making show this dying within the area. There's supposed to be. But also i think there's implications here for what wildlife could be getting damaged by how many times you'll pit strang out of where it's supposed to be more of these one hundred of them. I think they're fantastic. Okay so we are talking about something called the companion kala here. Nick cappos since. I'm just going to discount off the things you just said jocelyn fit. I literally thought this was about arben dogs. That would not getting enough walking in. Were trying to drag noise depression or something. I'm sorry it's so unbelievably redfin. I was like oh no those dogs in apartments not getting enough walks. And then i was like oh nari. It's a five thousand dollar so if you run amok and you get out of your backyard and you harassing the local i by pluribus. Whatever as of now she's sorry like. I'm not a dog person on looking at three tricks in my backyard and they do not need this color. Yeah i just didn't get it or people already put their feet on the dog so they can like fake that they get lots of steps anyway if a hood that's amazing this attack by like the pet owners. Labile whatever meek matinee argument for why there is benefit to tracking and quantifying the movement of want. Well i got for five dollars. A five thousand dollars is i'm not gonna lie. There's many many cheaper options out there but they do quite necessarily what this one does concerned about pets. That track abilities really good as i said before. If your pets lying around all day you could be looking at mood or health issues and if you're not knowing what they behavior. Is that th really good to know. There is a health aspect making show. They're getting enough movement as well. But i go back to especially cats and dogs roaming well without the area. They're supposed to be. That actually has implications tonight if wildlife. And i think this is really really important now. I remember five years ago at the big picture that they do in las vegas every year. There was so much take on despise the website. I was working for the time. Put me on the pay technology bait. And i had to run around and do nothing but talk about hitler show. I was crazy. But some of the ones i had there were amazing. Motorola had designed a doug cola that included a camera and speak us not only. Could you track where your doug was. Say what it was saying. You could issue. Voice commands to your dog over distance. All this stuff goes way deep day. Would you like what technology justin do you think would benefit your relationship with your chickens out of anything in the world. I have chicken cam video chicken squad because they've really mindful that just kind of pick around. I mean the brightens the size of a pay and they quite hilarious. So i mean we could. We could put a guard pro and they had and just give a little united. Mindful pecking To the world. So i just have to. What what what does mindful chicken look like as distinct from a non mindful chicken. My chickens affray ryan. I guess sorry. I've never really looked at caged caged chickens and gone. Oh you look different. But i don't know. I feel like we're going. We look we need a new fry's strolling around like a choke with its head still on yes of all the different kinds of technology and i don't mean to pedic because i do understand the arguments you put up earlier or very strong mic. Please come up but in terms of all the tech that you did encounter. Are the things. There was lots of outlandish stuff at the things that you think. Actually you know what this should become more mainstream because right now everything you disarming sound like there's a hell of a lot more technology of pets and they raise for like keeping track of my children. It varies significantly more. Because i think more people are comfortable strapping technology. Do they pets and they are their kids to be perfect. Would want us indicates the school with the caller on to in new south wales. You not allowed to send your kids with smartphones in or even smartwatches yet but if market can say yeah no. I've never known that. Do genuinely think there is needs to be a better awareness for pet owners about what they're when they're not around. I'll just a non hopping on about but go back on the cat book. I'm not a cat owner anymore. I'm a cat lover. And i know that are destructive baseds when it comes to night of wildlife cat should be indoors only and if you are not going to be an indoor cat on then you need to have a really strong understanding what. Your cats behaviors are when you're not there to look after it because that's part of the responsibility. I think something like this could really help. I just think be cost-ineffective to those with the not really going to care about you. Know spend five thousand dollars and you cats call about there's different solutions like the good old bail or the thing that will if your cat gets out. Okay you cut out then watch warning system for the ninety wildlife to go okay. The cats on the loose. Oy what kind of things cannot then do to make sure that. It's not having that impact. Because i agree. That's an important one but the bill is still being the cat from doing the damage. Something like this is giving you. The understanding of what damage can do allowing you to make the right decisions wrong. Sorry i am listening. I'm also just updating your bio on the down this show website to just say nikki. Haley cat lover lover so strange we are out of time. Jocelyn barua co-founder of digital nutrition. Psychologist thank you so much for joining us back on the pleasure thing. I look forward to having you back again and nikki. Haley dada no wait. Sorry just cat. Lover cat loving tequila. Welcome thank you for coming back into you and with that high. If you're enjoying the show Plays later review on whichever podcasting app and a very big. Thank you to those of you. Who have already downloaded other show here at. Abc stuff the british stall. I think you might have seen it. It's gone to number one on the ethereal apple. podcast shots. That are those of you. The downloaded it very big. Thank you to you as well. I'll back next week with a brand new website download. The we'll say then by.