The One with the Cockatoo


I love this podcast. Support this show through the acoss supportively. Joe it's up to you how much you give. And there's no regular commitment. Just hit the link in the short description to support now. Fifteen seconds guided been journal and admission sequence. Uh nuts three to report report. It feels good. I once again. Thank you for joining us. This is the space nets podcast episode. Numba two hundred and forty four. Oh my goodness. I was listening to someone the other day. Scott about the ram two hundred episode of whatever podcast. They do one of the one of the australian national television networks. We've done two hundred episodes two hundred and forty three point one. Yes got a lot more than us. It could all over any second andrew both well as possible. Yes and of course you heard from him already you my partner in crime professor fred. What's earn. hello morning andrew. how are you today. I am well sir. We're anticipating rain. It's going to be very windy for the next week with rich. That time of the year with the wind starts to whip up as the season changes. We find this. Tom of you very very windy so not looking forward to that. I'm not a win. I and i have paint win. One person like a bit of wind. We've come the rain already. Shows going through from get it before us. Well it's coming coming in from coming in from central australia. So it's coming in from the northwest out of out of queensland and in fact the system that's coming through is crossing the entire continent which is extraordinary. Don't usually see that kind of system but yes indeed. We're looking forward to this. It'll just i think. A lot of places are going to get their monthly average in the next two dice which is certainly broken. The drought now coming up on this episode of space. Nuts fred. we're going to discuss the probability that esther royds quite common. Not just the one or two space duties we're going to. We're getting dumped on from a great height as it turns out there's also a new twist on super messy. Yeah sorry about that new twist on supermassive black holes and we're going to tackle a couple of questions someone's asked a question about planet nine and spiral galaxies. It's all on space nuts this week and thank you for joining us by the way but before we get to all of that fred. I'm little update on nasa's perseverance rover. Has it moved another two and a half meters. Perhaps no move yet again. But what they've done now is six and a half meters come on. What more do you want birdie around the globe. That's what i want. I think they'll be coming. I'm sure so what we've seen. Though is the testing out of facility. Which is really super impressive. It's got a name that super as well as call super cam and cam is is mounted on the on the master of of perseverance and swivel around. Look at things but it can do five different sorts of analysis. Whatever it's looking at two to study the geology of miles and basically it'd be one of the things that will assist scientists in choosing what samples to to cash in order that they can be brought back to a later on so they'd be doing health checks on super can an all it systems. An apparently everything is in super-duper working you order one of the things that's super camp. Is that microphone that we heard sound from before you remember. We heard the sound of the wind on not after touchdown. Actually we got that recording. They've they've recorded something a little bit more. Earth like the the sound of their lasers upping the rocks because this super cam has a laser zaps the rocks. And what you do is then the sort of little plume of gas. That comes off. The rock is allies by the instruments on board so there is a confirmed. Yes it's iraq talk but is it contains all those building blocks of life that we're looking for and perhaps satan signs of me nonsense and things of that sort of proteins anyway. That's very exciting. But an unnecessary tend to recording of the laser zapping the rock. Which you don't have to hand. But i can tell you what it's like because i can do it. It just goes. Did you get died. A similar sound when now has a similar sound years ago when i was getting my eyes lies it. It's the same thing as you can see. It would to pluses yet anyway. So that's big step. It is people are very excited by this few places where he can find the images that except back some spectacular fred. Your definition images are incredible dot. Try the these pictures of the rocks that they're looking at which just like rocks but you know when you see the detail on them and you think goodness on mars. This is just a stunning. It's great stuff. Yeah it is date so on the progress we will well good from yes And and you know at the right way going. By the time we get to episode Three hundred and forty four space nuts. Perseverance will have moved. Maybe nine point two males who knows nobody from the jet propulsion arteries listening to this on their driving skills. It's a mistake to do. I hope they know joking. But i'm told a lot of people. Don't get the estrada sits if you because we self-deprecation sarcasm of pretty common slice too. I love it. Love it love. She'll be right guy. Let's move onto the next topic and this is one of my favorite topics as you alluded to your email when you sent me. It's the space back in the news. And the probability that these things are being flung at us from other solar systems on a regular basis. How so well. It's actually early studies before which you always refer to as the spice dooby do whatever i always. I still think it looked like a breadstick andrew nelson. I'll stick with the space the space baguette. This baseball of course they we all the studies before that was discovered suggested that we would from time to time visited in the inner solar system by objects from from other solar systems. Basically things that have been slung out their own solar system wanted through space for a few million years and then they pass through house. Never going near to anything to be caught by by gravity. Although it's possible that that could happen accidentally one of these. Things came near enough to venus. All the sun could end up being a satellite of venus which should be good cops already or planet of the sun. That's not happened to this. The odds of that very very low. But the odds of something coming through the solar system from time-to-time chhaya these things called pious os or interstellar objects and they basically. That's that's what coach is is that they don't belong to our solar system sometimes called akzo objects or excellent bodies so when Third wave to events drew because it was twenty seventeen when moore came through but then actually less than two years later the second to stellar object came through and it's a comet called off discovered by mr bar is off in ukraine or russia. He discovery told us that comments as well because that was definitely a he got near. The sony started beaming out the plasma that comets release in fact an analysis carried out on those that showed that actually the comet has the same sorts of materials refined in comments on the earth or in the solar system so is distributed. Commodore gary the might be the debris from the remnants have come so that might be what makes the oceans but anyway but the fact that now we've seen these two means you could put you can put a much bigger emphasis on our get a much better idea of how frequently they might turn up and that work because now be done. There is an organization called i four. I s which stands for initiative for interstellar studies. Sometimes i four s with the number four between initiative for interstellar studies which is really sprung from this but members of that institute and a number of other institutes of done. This research on looking at how many of these things might fly. And there's a lovely quote that i want to read to you because it is really. I think quite stirring it comes through marshall eubanks. Who's the chief scientist of of a number of different private companies space initiatives asteroid initiative. He can tell her these things going. But this is a lovely quotes. He says just by proving that they exist in other words because these two things came through the solar system it has a profound effect creating a field of study almost from nothing field that funding authorities are just beginning to really recognize interstellar objects provide us with the opportunity to study and in future literally touch extra bodies decades before the earliest possible missions to even the nearest stars such as proxima centauri so stirring words and react to that. I think it's quite true. These things provide an opportunity. If we can have the wherewithal to grab or at least to do a fly by of wanted to put all these like the super can't type instruments and see what these things you have made of do all the rest of it so there's a number of different kinds of missions that are proposed but before i get to that. Let me just mention that. The studies now indicate that roundabout seven of these interstellar objects probably pass through the solar system every year. And the issues detecting them. You've got to pick them up with us. We could do that now. Because we've got this. This was going to say flotilla. But they're not floating array of of of near objects telescope discovers truckers. Things like stars to their on haleakala on the island of maui instruments of that kind which are able to look for a moving through the solar system. Usually they're objects belonging to the solar system. But they can't pick up these others as well. So i think the estimate now is around about seven interstellar asteroids per year but only about two into stella a comex. The that rare. Perhaps it's partly because of the dynamics have come comets normally hang out on the on the boundaries of solar systems and occasionally get disturbed to fall in the thing about comics is generally speaking very small that nucleus of a comet is only probably seldom more than twenty thirty kilometers across and then forms this beautiful town when he gets near the some asteroids route about the same size probably brighter. It's a very dark on the surface as well so anyway. Whatever the deal is it looks as though there are enough of these to really think about how you might into set them. How you might you know. Basically further research on them. There is actually another another quotation. I think again from dr eubank. We assume that come from are formed with stars and their planetary systems. The after they are sorry and after the after they're on their own. They share the same galactic dynamics stars to another ones. This is how you start doing statistics. For how these things might swirled around the galaxy. We use the to known isos. One one i am. The one i refers to it being the first interstellar object detected to i borisov the efficiency of past and current astronomical surveys to estimate the number of these objects in the galaxy and stellar velocity estimates from the guy of mission. A mission looks at the positions of stars very accurately to estimate the velocity spread That we should expect. And as i said they think there might be seven astroid coming into in and to to perhaps a largely a biggie. Pardon they dropped that statistic. It's not to per year it once every ten to twenty years. So they are much rarer become comments. You may. Yeah it is. I'm just wondering how they differentiate between local comets and asteroids that are now solar system and the ones coming from the outside that being flying at us by people who obviously lock is very much but Is it all about the angle. Is it all about the angle of the tack the spayed or it's it's those sorts of things angles lesson bonkers comments long period comets come from all angles out the cloud which is to the wrapped around the solar system but the the key thing is the speed because he you know these two objects were both traveling at speeds that could not have bound to the solar system in other words. There was no way that we're never gonna stop and go around the sun. I think who was roundabout twenty six kilometers per second. It's it's highs philosophy which is very much above the escape velocity of the solar system so it comes and goes. I think it's more a case of its. it's gone. oh look this earth accelerate. And maybe that's right. Nothing flurry still got this puzzle. It did seem to have some non gravitational forces acting on it which thought to be perhaps ejected material coming from it the boosted direction. Still the theory that it might be alien that avi avi lobes idea that an is. He's just published a book about that. Well this way to be a best seller probably the e-eh. I think the what they've suggested just going into detail of this. But how do you how do you intercept them. One way to have things. I think we've talked about this before. How things orbiting in space that are spacecraft that have got a mega kinda lumbini rocket boosters attached to them and they're just waiting in orbit for something to go past. I think suggestions where you might have three of these spread around the us orbit and then once the once cited something you hit the button. Send off in the right direction to chase after whatever it is And seeking photograph which would be a good start fantastic different image. I mean we you know it. A pin sell issue whether you're is an alien spacecraft if we could go to close up photograph well it's being chased by tesla. So you never know though shots there was i mean i think ilan must did look closely at whether they could mount edition from nice x. Hardware to to chase after not possible would never catch it now. And i think that's been part of the problem so far. These things have passed us before we realized that were they. I mean we were. We were asleep for new because it was christmas and we just went what we really need to probably find them before they get here. Just in case they getting a bit too close become the actually borisov was detected before before that it before it passed the closest. But but even that you know the speed was was too high but it didn't mean strongest could get a good look at it which is why we know it had these various chemicals in its coma. Okay well keep your eyes peeled coming into. It can fire i into this. Is the space nuts. Podcast with fred watson that him and andrew dunkley space nuts. Welcome back. Thanks for listening to the space nets podcast on whatever platform you choose we. You can find just about anywhere these days. Whatever your favorite podcast distributaries. Yes thanks for listening or watching if you're a youtube and if you're a supporter of the space and that's podcast financially. We just want to send it at thanks. We've had a few more people sign up in the last week or so through patriot and supercars. So thank you for doing that. It's just a couple of bucks a month to put into the kiddie. We are aiming of course to make space and that's totally and utterly use. A focused use a supported listener supported rather than going down the commercial lawn. Which is what we are doing at the moment but in time if we can get you know a thousand patrons it'll be about us we'll just look after each other and that's that's what we're moving towards so if you'd like to become a patron you can do that through our website. Spice and that's podcasts. Dot com up in the top rod hand corner. There's a button called support. Space nuts. took us a long time to think of a name for that button. Many committee meetings. That's what we decided to support space. And that's click on that and different options or pop up on your screen. Choose whichever one you want you can if you want to make a donation you can do a one of their nation to repay powell's well it's totally up to you to those who have signed up and ran dropping a few dollars in the bucket every month. Thank you greatly appreciate it now. Fred. let's move onto our next topic and this is one that once again we're gonna be talking about black holes because they are the most mysterious things in the universe and people got all sorts of theories about them we. We're only just now starting to create images of them and now we've discovered that day they might be another pace to this fascinating puzzle of supermassive black holes. What are they found out. Now and he's it's scary scary injured. It is that black holes could move. They they can actually take all the movement of their own. And that makes it even more steps. Gary because it comes up the idea of things moving through space which are independent and able to do their own thing. But it's not actually quite as bad as that so what we have is some research that has been done on whether the black holes of the centers of galaxies and we know that supermassive black holes. Because we've discussed those many many times. We think most galaxies have a supermassive black hole at the centre. Whether those those black holes can actually move independently of their host galaxy. And that's something. That's a little bit counterintuitive because the reason why this thing sitting at the center of the galaxy is because he's not moving everything's kind of swirling around it but strontium is at the center for physics have a private university. they've actually found an example of a supermassive black hole that is moving relative to its parent galaxy or host galaxy. So there's a really nice quote that actually sums it up. I'm always very happy to quote the scientists who are doing the work here rather becky up my words. This is dominic. Pearce is an astronomer that the center for astrophysics at harvard. He is actually the leader of the study. Says we don't expect the majority of supermassive black holes to be moving. There usually content to just sit around but he says they're just so heavy that it's tough to get them going. Consider how much more difficult it is to kick a bowling ball into motion than it is to kick a soccer ball realizing that in this case the bowling bowl is several million times the mass of our sun that is going to require a pretty mighty and so what they've done is exactly that they looked at a galaxy in fact survey ten galaxies and looked the the black holes that caused. I'll put a bit more detail on that in a minute. But the galaxies that fairly easy to measure their motion you basically just use an optical spectra after noble way that we do measure the movements and galaxies. You've got to essentially got to filter out what we call the hubble flow which is the movement of the galaxy because of the expansion of the universe. So they did that for distant galaxies but the black holes are a different kettle of fish. How do you measure the velocity of a black sea. It to what they have to do is look at the accretion discuss the swirling disk of material that is around the black hole swirling around being sucked in and they specifically looked for black holes whose accretion discs contain water. Now it probably vaporized water but it's h two and as that water gets excited. It does something very similar. To what a laser does it becomes selling called a mazer. Mazer is well. Laser is light application by the stimulated emission of radiation stands for sorry about all the cogs joining its story. The door open fully. Shouldn't into fish done. Explain for those who don't know cockatoos big wide gala. Type birds with a sulpha. Kristen their heads and they get very excited. And i. it's usually gangs have hundreds and hundreds. Yeah we've got a lot a lot of the map to peace and quiet. Finish this story so it was a a major is the same thing but with microwaves. In fact moses came. I actually back in the fifties when these things were being developed maser microwave applications application by the stimulated emission of radiation and a similar phenomenon to a laser. You get this basically a beam of radio waves and that allows the radio antennas of any a set of radio as usually the use. Something covy i'll be i which is very long baseline interferometry. You can actually measure that philosophy with great accuracy. And so that's what they've done they've used these mazes to measure the naturally occurring mazes to measure the velocities of the black holes compared with velocity of the galaxy. A nine out of ten were arrested. Black holes were sitting doing nothing much. He said the center of the galaxies. But one actually wasn't one was moving at fifty kilometers per second relative to its parent galaxy and so the next issue is okay. What's what's causing it to move one of the one of the other One of the other scientists working at of these projects. Jim condoleeza radio astronomy at the national radio astronomy observatory in the united states. He says what possibilities is. We may be observing the aftermath of two supermassive black holes merging. the results of such a merger can cause the new black blackhawks to recoil. And we may be watching it in the active recoiling or is it settles down again. So that's something that ties with the work that people have done and gravitational wave of strong we see black holes merge but the other possibility is there might be you might be looking at a black hole. That's part of a binary black hole to black holes orbiting around one another. What you might be seeing here is a black coal one of which has the accretion disk so it causes the maser radiation. But the other doesn't have that it's a much quieter one and so you don't see the effect of the second black hole you've got one that's visible one. That's not. it might be only the motion that tells you that they are two parts of a binary to two parts. A pair of black holes gravitationally connected really interesting stuff. It will be many further operations. I think just to find out what's going on but it's really quite a new line of study. I mean we've talked about black holes ad infinitum over the last forty years or however long space is going but we've not talked about the rounded saga galaxies. Now now a bit. I suppose when you consider that just about everything in space is moving for one reason or another. It makes sense doesn't it. Provide from black holes moved to the fact that they merge from time to time says one of them's moving at least yeah. This is the galaxy in that. Yeah so yeah. It shouldn't really come as a big surprise. But how many and how often and what's causing suppose is going to be the subject of future speculation and study and ultimately confirmation. I guess but yes. So what one in ten said. That's right well out of ten is moving. yep okay and and sounds like The one of the ones that discovered is moving quite fast which is a little little disturbing but it's too far away to worry us imagining severely so in fact this is i think is two hundred fifty million light years away so it's a long way off but Just a point on that if the when black holes merge we know this from the You know from the gravitational wave detection when they do this final spin around each other. They're approaching significant fractions of the speed of light when they're doing that. So they become highly relativistic. As a really uh surprise they some residual momentum if to impact the sean exactly yes after this collided at nearly the speed of light. You'd expect a little bit of a wobble fifty kilometers per second. Well i think i like my terminology. Residual momentum agrees that if you look okay. I think somebody should use a watch this space as we say because they might be more on this in the in the future as they unravel the mysteries of black holes your listening to the space and that's podcast episode two hundred forty four with and and fred watson nuts. Well thanks for supporting the space. And that's podcast and thank you for listening on whatever podcast platform you. We are on many these days and he can find us just about anyway and thanks to youtube followers have thought numbers would have declined fred once we started putting vices on youtube. They've actually gone up I think we got one thousand six hundred twenty followers on youtube now which is very exciting. So thank you for following us on youtube. Thanks to those who've recently joined the space and that's podcast group as well on facebook. That's a group that was created by the space that's audience in a place where you can join like minded people and discuss your interests in astronomy and swap ideas and maybe ask questions and get some thoughts from your fellow space. Nuts that suspend. That's podcast group. Of course we've got the official space nuts facebook pages well which is growing in numbers so w-w-where joined them all just log into everything. Why not and just become a real space then now to have. We have got some questions. So let's go. I lead to the university of arizona. Hello fred nanu. This is western from the university of arizona in tucson i was listening to a recent podcast. Where the topic of planet non came up once again and i know the reasoning that people think planet nine might exist is the elongation of the orbits of the transient tuyen objects. I was wondering since this is not universally accepted theory. What are some other explanations for this allegation of orbit. It just seems really odd to me that there would be a an irregular orbit. If there were nothing out there love the show guys and keep up the amazing work but we'll try and when it becomes amazing let you know. Thanks western questions nine. Because when i was young i used to play soccer for those in the uk football and we played against the team cold weston and they used to bait us to they. Were pretty good out there. In the hunter valley coalfields with of cessnock incur carrie. I applied for a team called the shocks which was weird because to. It's nowhere near the ocean but we were connecticut shocks and blue. We weren't very good. But i was. I was with the first team that was created was a brand new club when i joined and got to start somewhere but yeah thanks for the question western Yeah planet talked about many times before there's been all sorts of theories one of the more recent theories there is no planet not. It's just a whole bunch of other stuff acting like a planet so yeah one wonders what is causing all this influence. Read if there is if there's any influenced too because that's i mean police finger on it really still a controversial idea that we have these what they call extreme transnet tuning objects and. It's really only a handful of them. Think is less than a dozen that have an alignment because their orbits are very elongated and it looks as though they're the elongation of their orbits. He's all in a particular direction and the original suggestion. The scientists have proposed this and the number of actually mike. Brownies one chapter. He owes another these. Scientists said that alignment must be due to the influence of the planet which we discovered the very distant planet. And that's what we call planet nine so so. This has been looked at in great detail. Now because i guess you could say there are two camps in this whole business the ones who say there's nothing there what do say something that there are a few people who suggest that it might be a black hole rather than a planet of primordial black hole. That's another thing that popped into the mix. But i think we talked about not very long ago which seems to me to be worth taking into account and it comes from a group of scientists have conducted what they call the outer solar system survey or us and what they've done is looked for more of these extreme transnet union object. They think they found their looked in detail at eight new objects all with very long semi major axis. That's the distance essentially the length of the elongated orbit. A half that leela. You hope it length. Which is why it's called any major access over the semi major axes. So they've looked at those and the found some that are not particularly aligned in the way that the original scientists looked up and then they've done all kinds of statistical studies to try to account for the ship bias which is always something. You've got to be careful when you're doing statistics you've got to look for biases baby. You only observe at one time of year. you're keeping away from the milky way or whatever those biases creeping of one day account for those they find the the in fact quotes the orientation of the orbits of the objects with the largest semi. Major axis was statistically consistent with being random. Another words the alignment disappears. The alignment still there. But what they're suggesting is that we're not saying no picture because of our biases not seeing exactly what what is being told. What's being told might be that. There's just no clustering until they're distributed right around the sky The basically the parameter that defines the direction of the alignment of job is something called the argument of perihelion which is a great name. Arguments used a different word the different way there but the certainly plenty of arguments going on the astronomical community so that perhaps is the main one but there are several other explanations. That people have proposed for these for these alignments whether they're real or not and still going on and trying to find planet nine. If it's really there so bottom line is we could be looking for nothing cooper looking for nothing or we could be looking for something in the wrong place or there's something that we could be looking for isn't what we thought it was It's a pretty wide open question. Well i suppose if we keep looking and never find it will ultimately have to conclude. There's nothing but i mean you could. You might be able to really tell for example as more of these extreme transnet union objects are discovered and they will. Because we've got bigger telescopes now. Wait till the. The ruben observatory comes online. That's the eight meter telescope. They'll survey the whole sky in. I think every three or four days astonishing that comes align within the next year or so. Then we'll start seeing many more of these and it's possible that the whole thing might then disappear. You find that the completely round in our intentions okay. Now before we move onto the next question. Western said he was from the university of arizona in tucson. Now understand you bay nerine. It's a pretty special place many times. Actually it's it's part of astronomy partly because right next door is the is the national optical astronomy observatory at kitt peak. That's not very far from to some but tucson has an astronomy department is called steward observatory which which has many very fine astronomers working that including some friends of mine. One particularly good friend of mine. Who i still keep in touch with. We were students together at the university of edinburgh and he went on to become a professor of astronomy to song. He's done some great stuff actually has written some fantastic books about life beyond the earth and things of that sort. Chris impis his name. Hello christopher via listen to this but yes he's there and something else that's their university of arizona is the arizona mural obara tree which is where the mirrors are being made for the giant magellan telescope. Seven eight point. Four meter diameter eras cast in the rotating often the mirror laboratory. And it's as and that's why they're being polished as well is located inside one of the buildings. It's the standard. Actually the standard people. Look i think for the baseball field. My of the wrong score. Wow but yeah. It's a huge concrete structure which is very stable in temperature inside an empty. Because it's all tiered staircases and ti seating so they've occupied this with this gigantic mirror laboratories well visit every. Wow how amazing. I'm glad i'm glad western got in touch with us to look at that. And thanks for your question western. Hopefully we didn't answer it for you because there isn't an answer yet but maybe one day let's continue on this This one comes from poland. Could be kentucky. Hey guys. i'm robert. Mckinley from kentucky but these days eleven poland. My questions pretty simple. But i think the answer might not be an that is what causes the spiral in a spiral galaxy Much really looking forward to the answer. You take easy to thanks for all of it. It's caused by a fairy floss. Machine candy machine is what causes the spirals. That's that's my theory. Well for a while. That was as good as any and because that because they present actually the spiral arms. It's one that took a law of sorting out. And it's one of those things where the silting out took place within the time spot my career so i remember when we were fooling around with all kinds of wild wonderful theories but they it's now well understood and the the fact is that we we look at galaxies we see these lovely lovely swirling patterns. Some of them are very symmetrical almost infacy symmetrical looking as if the been painted so the question is what are they made of and i thought he's obviously well they're just strings stars that kind of wound up by the rotation of the galaxy. But you don't have to work very hard to prove that. That can't be the case because when you think about the way galaxies turn our son takes about two hundred and forty million years to go round once that means that it's gone round more than fifty times in the you know in the lifetime of our galaxy and so if these things were strings of stars it would have been wound up something like fifty times maybe bit less but something like that and it would look like a clock clock spring. Not many people know what clocks is these days. But it's very very tightly wound the wind. I know what a clock spring is. Because my mom's dad. My grandfather was a watchmaker. And i used to. I used to go into his workshop at the back of the jewelry store and i just was mesmerized by all the mechanisms and all and usually sitting there on his stool with his glass on just working away inside. Those little watches and clocks are gushy was brilliant. He was an instrument fitter in world war two for the f. up in the pacific and came home to watch watchmaker. You little sod long story but you know when you look at spiral galaxies it all the kennedy thing now they've got gentle curvature then nothing like a wound up spring and so the something else. That's really interesting. If you take an image of a galaxy using infrared light rather than rather than noble visible light what you then seeing his old the old styles the spyros disappear the really so what that leads to the suggestion that it's the hot young stars that blue stars and in fact when you look at spiraling they're are from blue in color that you're seeing they're the ones that make that that makes us by our structure so what it suggests. They're short lived as well. Andrew those blue giant stars. They only lost a few tens of millions of years. So what you've got is some process that actually triggers the formation of the stars in this spiral pattern and and then goes away. And that's what the answer is. And it goes back to the nineteen sixties to chinese. American astronomers chow kia chow. I think he's a big man. That's how his first name is. It's his second name is lynn. Cheer char lynn. And frank shu linden shoe. They were the two people who figured out what's going on. And it's basically something like a sound wave that passes through the gas in our galaxy and as it passes through it triggers staff nation. And you get these hot blue stars burning and shining brightly. And then fading away this pattern then passes along and it's so it's almost an optical illusion the spiral arms they're they're formed from the hot young stars that are being compressed by the density wave called identity wave as it passes through and that actually is turns out to be the right answer that form spiral up. So it's far from intuitive so quite different you know quite a different thing and date i i suppose you just look at look at them and say well that must be caused by the rotation or must be caused by some kind of gravitational effect. But now it's it's sounds like something completely different and and i believe not. All galaxies have spar alarms. Do they know that was quite right. This elliptical galaxies. Don't they we think that's because the gas that they've evolved from the period when you've got the disk with gas in it that's making spiral arms. They're much older galaxies or possibly even from resulting from mergers between different galaxies. And then there are. Things called irregular galaxies which are well irregular. That make sense all right west robert. I'm sorry thank you so much for the question. Hope life is good for you in poland and We welcome your questions of course and please send them to us via website. Space nats podcast dot com. Click on the tab. I'm doing it right now. And it'll bring up the interface where you can record your question by pressing the record button. That's how it works. As long as you've got a device with a microphone should be record. Don't forget to tell us who you are and where you're from or where are you from anywhere from as is the case with rob it and Underneath that if you don't want to record voice you can do it through the mile interface where you can put your name and a mile and location and and the question must must. I guess we could use that too. But it's all on our website space. That's podcast dot com. Click on the tab to send us your questions. We're coming up on an old question episode. I think we'll do that next week for it. Sounds really luther that we got some questions over the in the bag and hopefully we'll get some little not be great indeed we will But that wraps it up for another week. Thank you fred. Despite the trials and tribulations that no ever know about seamless episode three hundred forty four of the space. That's focused out. We will see you next week. Thanks for it sounds great. Cu andrew take care fred watson astronomer lodge out of the team here at space nuts and back to the studio who's going to have a lot of fun putting this together and from via andrew dunkley. Thanks for your company. We'll see you again next week. Bye bye notes. This available at apple. Podcasts google podcasts. Spotify radio and all your favorite podcast plan. You can also stream on demand at god still paul. Another gas. Production from thoughts dot com.

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