LWW 90: Epilogues
welcome see lesbians. He writes we plan. Liden and tb mortensen conversations about writing and lesbian fiction. Join us as we drove back the curtain and logan to episode ninety of lesbians. You right this week. The topic is epilogues joining me. Claire lydon is my co host. The almost happy to be american again. T malkin hello. Tb how he today we not talk. Politics is still. It doesn't look a messy. I'm not gonna line yes okay. Let's let's not talk politics. 'cause you government is still refusing and argument is still fucking up so yes. Let's get on to how you weeks. Being i know is kind of like the us uk or dislike. Hold my beer beer beer you. We have more incompetent people charge. I guess i shouldn't say that. But still i'm not sure we could actually but need to get off the politics because vin. We had one day of extreme elation in this country and end our dislike the oath of this. When did we record last. Was it last week. Indeed i was. I was just entering my my my sorta holiday ruskin. He played two weeks off. But as we just said it's pretty stressful here with politics in the Let's not forget. Covid co vida's raging weren't serious Over here with covid so I had to go to a happy place again. So i started writing another london novella because that's my happy place. These days since the setup The first one in the it relatively much better than i anticipated. I thought you know like top ten release. It was the number one spot for a while. I was very surprised. So i've started writing another like novella about another american. Who moves over to London this time him taking us back all the way back to two thousand and eleven because that is the year. I actually moved to london and it was very exciting time because not only was you know. Was that in a new country. But this was when you know the queen's diamond jubilee coming up and then the next summer lived in september. Two thousand eleven. The next summer was the london olympics team member help. Everyone was as happy. i remember. it was amazing. Like you didn't walk where you skip seeking lottie da. I think everyone was going back to the time. 'cause fucking i need some happiness in a so. My holiday is being spent writing a novella on other news. I ended up getting the audio files for life. Embiid's money code right was harper bliss so for the second time in two months. I am audio proofing. Cooperate with the pandemic. the dates haven't been working out quite as we planned. And so i didn't have an audio proof. Set up for this. So i have to do it in. I really hate this job. I have four more hours to get through today because Acs is being very slow. Proving blogs nisa christmas book. So i'm a tight saying doing your holiday very well. A goal decide you printing he walking. Yeah i pretty much fairly to hold it with. This was the worst thing. What am i gonna do doom. Scroll the entire time or go to my happy place. What would you do happy. Happy wins in. Did news and happy news of macleod. Just released her new book accidental honeymoon. And i've been sharing with my readers of this news. Because i had to. I w- it willingly with miranda to a couple of vineyards and i ended up suffering suit through some hellacious Hangovers as they don't drink a lot. But when i do drink buzzed really quickly. But then the next morning really sucks and so people should buy this book because i had to suffer a lot to this book and i love another question. A navy told me that you bought a wine to get three the election time. Say did you drink bad. Have hellacious. However i use my my desert wing causes which are much smaller so each night i would just have one of those so i wasn't getting s buzzed or anything. But i work through it. Because i was having a little glass of wine in reading a book and trying not to doom. Scroll are you doing scrolling. I've tried t put my phone away from my bed. Say when i didn't have the phone by the bed then i avoided the time that gets me is wanna wake up in the morning. Say i try not to do that. I'm not succeeding every day but more of the now. Just leave the fine out the bedroom all right so in another way i'm trying to avoid doing scrolling. I finished season three of killing eve. Did you these three now. I watched the i e series And when i went to work series three it was just when the coronavirus struck and it was just a little bit too dark. Say actually we have more. Sierra was hoping you watched it really wanted to discuss the gate get over the darkness. And what is the good kind of dark this because it's hilarious. Yeah it's one of the series though. I just forgot about so. I think we were supposed to three episodes in the at night. This not in the mood for this right now. Say we will get back to some put. It was funny though. 'cause i finished a season three last night in I watch it on hulu in obviously since finished it because usually when i finish an episode like automatically accused the next episode but this time instead of queuing of the next episode because it was over accused of handmaid's tale and i was like well as a rome. Come for our times and other news in hell. I really of failed doing my holiday right yesterday. I went to go get my flu. Shot and i remembered that my tetanus shot needed by needed another booster fort usually try not to get flu shots because loan old. They make me feel like i have the flu for the next forty eight hours. But they've been telling us this year is going to be bad so we should get our flu shots so i i was being a good citizen. Got my flu shot. But that is why. It's noon here in massachusetts and i'm still in my jammies because i feel like hell. Ktbs wearing a fetching sat of pink pajamas with little kittens live them. It's not expected when i go in the same co tonight but again asked week. I purchased five pairs prepares of pajamas. I don't usually buy pajamas but You know how you went through shouf. As a few months ago. I am going through the jamma phase where it is. Keep buying more pacino's because they don't think i'm ever gonna leave my flat in k. Is the native the new fashion. So maybe the next five weeks. This were jealous for you. You'll be like older. She's going to wear today. That's my life I fucked up my holiday. A try to go to my happy place and i gave myself the flu. What are you doing while i am trying to strive three. I two weeks to launch on my festive. Romance christmas mistletoe. And and it's it's been. I think i'm feeling a little bit flat this week because We have gone into lockdown again in the uk. So and everything's feeling a little bit. Haven't we done this before we could have avoided it. So i think everybody's fed up and i think i am. I'm trying to g myself up for the christmas book is went up to the team. Yesterday i had a few little Software glitches so it would did feel a bit and slowed this week by. Please is out one of the software things that went wrong. I put put some changes in to one of the drafts. And then the next time the next draft i go. It wasn't then i was like. Oh my god am. I going mad. Is this like you know. Menopause striking or getting the onset dementia but night just turned out that mesa. The stuff i put in but some of them are putting a different drafts. Said that set mahaddin to spin gonna slam like autumn putting the right drop down. And then when i went to put from what into one which is the formatting of where. Yee's i'd have a mac. So i have to use my mac and cloud account which pretends i've gone back and my client account didn't work and it said i said i can ease welham say that when i was just going to put out to my team today so i was just like fines to get a friend of mine to element for me and my mind. Cloud cast estona working. They just haven't updated it. Because apparently there's been a new mac system catalina out since last felony the book which was september. It wasn't a very long ago so there's been a few glitches this week. I'm hoping that the one i set out to the team is the right version. I'm sure he'll vaccine. If you really will be new published rate me to in your head. But 'cause i remember who we are passing the word talk about conflict because after we got out of the Dropbox stage and you're like you. Can you teach date out. Because i'm not in the habit of doing that because on my side it tells me when i look at the file folder. It tells me what date it was when i saved it. So none the habit of writing date in actual were like i need to know. I don't want to pull the rug one. So did you not do that. Did you not put the rate in clear. I think i went against my in rules. Tb perhaps and not identified the day and no man. i just update the numba so An idea day on as well but they updated the number for some reason. It's my number one thing always if you're gonna make changes updates anyway slight panic this end but hopefully of cool everything but now this week now got out to the teams and that's sort to give but now Today i've just been finessing the blurb Which i wrote a while ago. And i came back to its day might need some work of updated my website and i've done a blog with the first chapter preview and said there's still a lot of days i'm just still up in the launch world. Basically what you're saying you hate life at the moment you're british and you won't actually see height is a strong word tv some strong head and the so much of it in the world. I don't want to spend any more around. I'll be pleased when i've got my ducks. New rate has pretty that way. It feels like. I just need to get the monterey and y- still go hound tool might till don't twelve days so this time but it feels like i want to get it done now just that everything's in the right. So maybe by the end of this week i'll have made a bit sore out back in lockdown. Are you like a full lockdown or is it just during curfew hours not much not exactly the same but pretty much in a while baas restaurants shut you get any go out full to get medication and food travel is is not advised safe fairly looked at this time next week. I'll be feeling at the. I've got everything done and say dan. I'll be feeling a little bit more chipper. Oh and the other thing that happened this week was i did a virtual author event with max ellendale which is really cool now. I didn't fly this up last week because she asked me. Now so we can under the puck out too late to flag up. It was really cool. Actually because she invited her face with regroup and so he had probably About fifteen twenty people in there and we did a reading and it was acuna and it was actually really cool. And i needed for these things because i also did a audio cuna in name author her facebook group a couple of weeks game and decided that i prefer doing video and audio as opposed to writing. Maybe that's when people ask me to do written stuff for promotion On their website. I think i prefer video woody. Because ryan's what you do day. And i think i'm quite comfortable in front of the cameras. Say on maccabee that somebody would hate. You'd be fine. You'd be finding you'll pajamas. No i'm actually doing earning talk at the end of this month for reservations in her and i opted to do the The writing threads. Because i didn't want to have to shower. I can inside. tv's everyday life yes So that was really good. I really enjoyed The virtual author of and adobe mac. So that was that was good spurs update. This week is internationals friendly. So when applying this weekend however last time out we played badly and we won so we winning ugly were on title winning form in the second place rena. We all know who you play. Last week we played west brom. Yeah and we won't really shitty. We played terribly and we won't one now with an eighty nine th minute winner. So who scored harry canukus. I saw he milestone in his scoring career. He's had law. He's a iskoe. Turner goes and three hundred games and then he scored one hundred and fifty in the premier league. Say the boy done good for one season one to the other news. Is christmas movie watching. You know how busy of been busy getting the christmas ready to go and all the other things that imboden it. I still still watching christmas movies. That's how busy i was. But now but now i've restarted and i worked a couple of really good ones actually. There's a really one called a christmas movie. Christmas and is about teases aris movie critic. Christmas may christmas and is fatigue sisters. One of them hates christmas movies. One of them loves christmas movies and one of them and they both wake up in a christmas movie. It was very funny. Say hallmark gang. A little bit snappier but the one of the things that happened. This week is trailer. The happiest season came out as well. It'd be seen back during the renaissance. So she made it still running rallies look at year. You're looking drained. Abounded it's kristen stewart it's written and directed by clay davao quay lady kristen stewart stars in korea. Lady say and it's co misdemeanor from shits creek in it playing a game. You know here's pretty funny. I showed as well. i hear. it's funny. But i've started watching the first series and it's terrible say i wasn't the everyone says the first season is you have to watch it and it gets really funny from the second season is not very you have to get through just read like civilta of each some battle. I was thinking you really have to go through the happiest season. I'm very excited for it. But the anything is easy on hughley. Some hyping That we'll be able to get it somehow in the uk. I dislike week by this point. The phone for you and the other sad thing that happened today. Is that nikola adams as dropped out of strictly. Come dancing nastro. Radio dot z. Is like dancing with the stars in the us and nikola adams is a olympic champion boxer. She is also gay and she didn't want to wear dresses as she asked if she could be partnered with woman as she was his potted capterra and she's been doing really well. It'll be really looking forward to watching her dance. The last two weeks. And i think were going to do this week. And then she sat to drop out because catchier is tested positive for covid. And that's the rules. If you partner test positive or year you have to drop out. Because they all the bubbles so the first same sex couple on three dollars as historic and they're the ones dropout sites bit shit but they gave them the brakes conspiracy. Yes i think that that is homophobic. I wasn't positive test with kevin. That is my lies. Matheu that's about. It sells guns comments. What you got coming onto a lot of comments this week of first off. We have a jamie moody a fellow author. She wanted to think us. Again for our inspiration and guidance through writing and publishing. This has been such a chaotic year. But when jamie looks back jamie has nothing but joy and gratitude because jamie became an author. So congratulations jamie for pursuing through the world's worst year probably not because there's been a lot of shares of our lifetime more lifetime all right it. We have another comment by different. Jamie jamie's currently in the process of catching up on all the podcast episodes and jamie has fallen woefully behind. Think somewhere in july. I think. I think that's where a lot of people like this really checked out of life. jamie good luck getting caught up in. I totally understand. It's it's been a weird year. I can't express it enough. How fucking weird this has been. But also we have come from neyland Frigging lows lesbians rate. Podcast frigging loves it so Thank you very much for the next comet a nancy just founder. Podcast ansi says you. Loonies are a pleasure to listen to and she thinks me tv. Thank you for. Validating might hit my own tennessee toward f-bomb so yeah i don't think i don't think this is the year for me to try to the of bump plucking nine fucking nine can't do it so there you go is he. Will this keepdriving that bombs to this fucking bed year. Aren't we have a comment from jan. I asked for a listeners to weigh in on the pink and orange contest. Are you ready for chance answer. You're wrong it's dunkin donuts for the win. Because that's what i think of when i think of pink and orange in was that visuals placed in john's head is no amount of fashion. Sense could prevail so sorry but jan does have a she said perhaps an enthusiastic participation in the giant date house we kept talking about china's l. Yes a k. Yeah well sure how that will go. I mean who. Doesn't i mean he wouldn't be enthusiastic to participate in vaginas all right john. Thanks for laughs every monday. So i'm glad we make you chuckle. And we have come a comment back from richard for you. I don't know if you noticed if you saw this comment. Richard is back wayne in a rugby. And you said that you are too scared in. Richard says that richard heard. Nothing scares claire. Not even rugby would be allowed to be. Just a spectator plane is not compulsory. So richard really wants you to write the rugby romance and still not gonna happen richard. Sorry every it's been put nicely central to i'm still t- scarred criminals on your side of the gen who wrote in and thanks for altering had questions on our. Ask anything episode. She says it's been helpful in a price as an liked her own fame. The podcast have another one gen. Go on with just giving them questions. She asked me right to and were afraid reports. The process gm's pajamas. Pink kittens on white britons on pajamas. You get it right all right said. Let's get onto the topic of the week. Which is epilogues. So this is posed to us by zoe. Oscars anything as we do. Break out into a whole upset. And so he asked dna epilogue other advantages or disadvantages to writing them. She says sometimes. I wonder whether readers would like to be left alone to imagine their own endings. Personally as rita she loves them buzzer writer. She doesn't is it because it's her idea. And quite frankly she could a number of dips into the couches futures. Or is it because she doesn't want to end is a writer thing she asks lots of questions. T be wrapped up in one. Big question from zoe. It's it's the questions isn't it. So what do you think a epilogue donate them delight them. Do you want them. He loved them. Should we go back actually. Define what a luggage. We need to make sure that people understand the distinction between an epilogue in afterward an epilogue is actually a continuation story usually set in a little. Bit in the future of what the future especially. If it's like a sifi but Afterward is where you kind of distinct people so we need to make sure that we have that straight in epilogue on actually means concluding word. Did you know that i did. I did smile research. I wonder if we have the same article. Probably do to question is do. You need them or not see i. I was trying to think this morning before we got on the air in didn't get very far of how many epilogues have actually pinned in my own books. And i think they came up with four or five. At least i know we wanted one golden summer or or golden summer augsburg. I'm just gonna circling oaks and still one go by the way. So i know i've done with that in a few recent books i've done it. Are they necessary. Here's the problem is i. it depends on the reader. Some readers really do like i had readers right mean asked me you know when you like the fast forward to the epilogue and you skip over like key. Parts of their light suggested. Why don't you show it. Every single step in some readers do want to continue with the characters they wanna absolutely everything analysis impossible so i think it depends on the readers in. I think it depends on the entry. I think for a romance especially for happily ever after i do a lot of readers wanna know five years down the roy down the way that they are still in that giddy stage and skipping everywhere in loving life. What do you think say. I did elinor but at looks and a bit like zoe as well as a writer. Paul me wants to lather. Read it to finish the story themselves and imagine what might go on. But i also senate readers overwhelmingly up them and as a reader i i quite liked them So the i probably right the more often than not these days My just written the app. Look for my christmas book and if i look it much sadly for my standards so i do. What them. I think my son lanes if you look at my son lanes more often than others look so for christmas. I don't know if you can answer this or not. I don't know if you wanna give it away. But does the epilogue take place on another christmas. Yes t is down. The line i was curious is a romance. it's got a happy ending. I'm not giving that way. I just wanted to know really stuck christmas landing. I stuck because you wobble within. I didn't fly tv. I stuck chris's landing so look the pablo worsen. yep either. The file chapter is christmas day and then And then the epilogue is not christmas day. But it's christmas tease lecture. All right right. Are you okay with the christmas book. Now christmas missile. Mistletoe might be ak because the landing is stuck i think readers love to see they happily ever after obviously in a romance and we are remers. Writers antelope cements. What's already happened in the book and wraps up the story in a neat bowed. And i think from a personal perspective it should give the reader happy field. That's what i aim for and writing them. His one thing that readers have asked me for before actually. Even one of my editors has asked me for proposals. Now i think sometimes I don't wanna make every epilogue the same you don't mean as different characters overseeing different stories but so many breeders have written to me when i've written epilogues without proposals and ours and told me that they wish they'd been a proposal in the epilogue. I'm not gonna put a proposal in every apple of but oh my god redis readers in my experience. Love to have a proposal. An looks i are. They don't have done it once. Maybe twice the generally them just a dip into the future for you main characters and from the emails i've had from readers. They are loved. What what are the things you should not do. An look an epilogue. She'd tied up some loose ends in your story and it should always be about your main characters painted them. You'll couple right and it should never leave your reader. Confused battle is a bad epilogue on. Isn't it like the goal was almost every chapter history. Should it be like that was weird yet. I think it should be a natural follow on from the end be shouldn't competent. The the key thing is it shouldn't be that compensate for weekending. Say don't think the i can just have this last last chapter. And if. It's not quite there. While i can fix it in the epilogue. Now you'll book should actually end in the final chapter but like consider the epilogue like the icing on. The cake is the cherry on top of the icing on the cake. I mean you cake. I mean my christmas book for instance. It's a bloody showstopper right. If it was a cake it would win. The great british bake off right. would it be. What takes kate new christmas cake. Obviously it would be a three tinted sponge extravaganza. It probably be you know my ice cream. Flavors maybe it would be pineapple. Mango pineapple mango flavored with coconut. Oh god yes three. Tis and maybe a jelly infusion on the talk. 'cause that's what did bake off this week. The did like jelly are. It was very strange. I'm not really unrelenting love. Jerry say. I wouldn't go there but he barks cake ever epilogues you. Debbie like kate remorse march. They deem are you doing a just why it was a big fan of your ice cream. Flavors looks i won't cake now anyway. Backed epilogues sedately. Really confused is no compensation for weekending. It shouldn't be long. This is a really key thing. Actually because with epilogues. May i always think chapter length. I am for two thousand words for an epilogue. I'll probably if it hits a thousand that's fine It can seat does but i think on the shorter side make it snappy to the point and he just needs to give your your reader a flavor of what's happening in the future. I'd say thank forget. Thank forget that you can put kovacs in their say boomerangs. So if you if you have something beginning then you can go back to it in the epilogue and then the person reading would get the warm fuzzy feeling because actually when i read i did that increases because well you know when i read back when read the epilogue. I was like oh. I was filled with warm fuzzy feelings. And i'm like well. That's a good sign isn't it i. I never did that feeling. I'm reading my own words. See i see this. This focused therapy nine. 'cause from feeling like have i sent the right version. Are now thinking yeah. It's pretty good pretty it landing anyway. Tv site tell me how would you agree on. The house reminded. Look yeah i would definitely agree and i would. I want to reiterate that it should not be replacement for the ending. If you don't have an ending tear book the book is not done. The epilogue is not the ending. I know they both start with e. But they're not the same thing flood literally is just that little extra spice for them. And i i would also keep it short because there are gonna be readers like i said who constantly what more. But you can't just keep writing the same characters show every part of their lives. That's called a diary. But yeah i think those are all he stepped and i think the other reason we have been talking safer about epilogues withstanding books and all these things that he said Valid but the other reason he could an epilogue was to set up the next book in a series or The sequel say tell you reader enough to get them excited about the follow up Now do the in the london series. I don't have epilogues as a role will do as i'm just gonna let me. I was trying to think this. What books have epilogues nate. I could not remember which ones and did it. And i was too lazy. I was in my pyjamas. So i'm just looking at mighty london and i'm lying as an epilogue so great Series books can have an epilogue as well they'll with your epilogue in the series books especially since the london like the woman lost series. It'd be difficult because still be the same story arc but with your london. Books are all. I mean. they're setting the universe but they're all standing loans with characters make appearances but they're not the Main characters in each story so that will stand lane books but they're all saying the same universe and the same characters weaving in and out of each book. Say i'm just trying to read the epilogue for made in london zero. Sure if he said if the next book thing necessarily ni- because i'm just is is how to look at that date thing is something you can do obviously with the epilogue but i think Again with this one with the major in london just went a month or a year forward in the main character's lives and the book started with them doing a family photo shoot with one of the characters doing a family photo shoot and she didn't have a partner and her family's always had partners that and then the book ended with an a year later with them going to the family together. Say it was quite a you know. That's a cool back to cuba. We gotta go back in the epilogue in one golden summer as well so you can do it in series books as well and you can set up the next book or i think basically what i try to do in the london books is set up the character for the next book throughout. It's not it's not just done in the final chapter of the app. Look so whatever. The readers spy a new lesbian. Like that's the new one. Yeah and i actually in the london book in made in london it be one character and but this other character was such strong character are so enjoyed writing here. Those actually now gonna be book. Seven is now about india back to the comments. Because i realized when you mentioned the london series of one of the commenters had had something for you and i didn't pass it along so i'm sorry so. Nancy said moore of london series. Please especially so her soulmate. Cleo hell echo o. Nazis taking a claim claim cleo. There's a tight little book for that. Fan fiction yes Worry nancy london. Book seven hotline. The nights is coming out the end of january of nailed the data and next year. You probably get book as well. Because i know what it is on. What benign is as well saying gang up to nine but yes. I am going to get chris book out and then straight onto an book seven. They rest for the wicked. Tb books were originally split speed linden series everytime. We mentioned a linden series. You keep saying you know like you're not even a million. I'm gonna have known you is it. Is it set number now or you're not sure night i'm positive this would be non books and then offering comparably ended but never say never. Is it going to be like the thing with covid by a pajamas and never see each other. Yeah yeah it's just gonna be a whole book zoom cools. Because that's what the world wants. So how can we Some up Epilogues do you personally like them. They delight reading them. It depends um sometimes. I find them a little too cheesy but if it's doug well especially if it's a story like the characters just like totally fell in love with yeah i mean they're cute. They're usually quick. They should be quick in there. Cute and you just get a peek like do they have a baby or To get married or something like that so yeah. They're nice. But i don't necessarily always need them. No i am a much more of a story person. Like i liked the ending to be like. What am i trying to say. And you like it to just stop. I think that hifi log in i quite like it if i had to come down on one side of the other i like to read them and i generally do them. I think i didn't say much in the beginning. But i think now I always think an epilogue. I native redes- loved them. So i wanna give readers what they want an online is rita say on epilogues thumbs up for me. It's a thumbs half-mast from tb. But i think especially in romance. I think that they're strong. But you shouldn't story. Shouldn't need one but remains raiders lottery to read them. Yeah that's the thing we need to reiterate your story does not need epilogue navy story needs to have log is not over. You story should finish. The epilogue is the icing on the cake. We won't go back to cake. Cb will have a mountain bright so let us know what you think. Do you like at lock. Steeler reading them delight writing them. Is there a book whereas has got you and just made you go. Oh my god that is the best epilogue ever wanted to know about listeners. Reaction to your clear cake. Yes pineapple mango and coconut cake for the win. Although you know that. I did do a mango taken cake. When my brother and his wife came over couple months gay and it was designed sta. I'm just going to say that. I think any version of cake would be a disaster for. But i really want cake. Still join us next week. When we'll be talking about the importance of rest and recuperation which debbie knows all about having to sabotage the holiday. Say she's going to be taking those along with everyone else. So in the meantime stay safe. Have a great week. Keep rising everybody. Thanks for listening team lesbians. You ranks listening every week for more conversations on writing and lesbian fiction and you can make sure you never miss an episode by signing up to on newsletter at lesbians who right dot com also. If he could take a moment to lever of you wherever you listen to this podcast. It would help more people to discover us. Thanks very much and see you next time.