HOUR 1: Bad loss for the Hawks; Sixers beat Nuggets; Ric Bucher
It has always we are brought to you by Ziprecruiter. The smartest way to hire try ziprecruiter for free by going to SIP RECRUITER DOT com slash. Enter on show today style. We've got Rick Euchre the NBA enlightener coming out in about thirty minutes is GONNA join us for an hour. We we were three and last night in our in our first ever scallon pals better the night all three of us you me and McDonough nailed our picks against the spread last night so three no free money. We're handing out here. We're GONNA keep doing that every day like I said we could be terrible but last night we are great so hopefully if he did some sort of parlay with those three teams are probably a richer man today by the way were great yesterday did you Emmy I did you see. I mean some word Emily Man. If you were a gambling man you would have been praising the Lord to I flipped over because I ended up. I was like this. Game's over. They'RE NOT GONNA they're not gonNA cover so I up and over to the sixers nuggets game and then I saw there an overtime and they're up by like eight and and I'm like this thing is wait a second so I missed it live. I ended up watching it back after watching some of the highlights. Listen I'm a lucky man. I took a minus eight and a half last night. That game was the hawks were leading most of that game. And they're up six points with a minute left trae young declares that over infamously now all over social media Jimmy Butler everybody's posting about it and the and the heat end up getting into overtime and then covering the happen that you own a twenty to nothing runs scale from a minute. Left in regulation -regulation all the way through overtime twenty to nothing run to cover so listen. Sometimes it's better to be lucky than it is to be good scout. Yeah this might be the hawks. Ah when you have when you're on the road against a good team and you go up six with fifty six seconds to go and you can't close goes out and then in overtime you can't regroup. That's just that is Cerruti and Ryan mcdonagh calling it. Be Calling it for. What is these guys are too young and not ready to win yet and they had a good game like those guys played good? They moved the ball. They did a lot of good things. But when we call it nut cutting time nowhere to be found nowhere to be found and you talk about your boy. I'm telling you you think your boy too big time score because he scores a lot of points big time scores. Don't get outscored like that down the stretch. Come on well you know first off. You're talking about you're saying my boy. Ironically I hope because I mean I. It's not that I don't like trae young but no I don't know your point scorer your boy I I'm talking about your boy. trae young young. He's our boy he's my boy. Whatever but I don't think he's here to score he scores point but I don't? I'm not looking at him like to me. A score is a guy get his shot. Got Any time of the game late in the game. They're going to get a good look like to me. trae young is a playmaker. He the ball mover. He gets other people involved so therefore a big time scores people who are third in the NBA and scoring Cerruti. Don't get outscored like that and cannot answer the call so to me. Well more playmaker Anchorman Scorer. I'll say this though. I mean in his defense. Listen it's a young team. I I've been on record multi thing I just don't I didn't think this was the year for them. I think we're we're showing. Why even without John Collins? I typically if you're up six with a minute left. I wonder what the wind probably probably like in the high nineties. Right Ninety nine ninety ninety nine percent so there you go so what happened. was those cow. They took him out so after that he he ends up passing to Alex Len per dunk puts them up six. He does the it's over. It's is over almost like a Mazda. Vince Carter in the dunk contest in two thousand and as a minute left they take him out of the game. Lloyd Pierce obviously still a young coach and inexperienced coached. Take some out of the game. I I kind of understand it scowl for defensive purposes. Because if you'RE GONNA win that game you're going to need to get stops right. And they clearly the he hit a couple threes and tying it up singing it's overtime and after the game trae young was asked about it and I didn't I didn't see the salary thing but there was some quote saying you know He. He just seemed he seemed unhappy and a little bit befuddled by why he wasn't in the game so he gets taken out now from about a minute left in the game and it gets put back in with under thirty seconds once the game had already sort of been tied to sort of try to go and win. The game is that is that a massive mistake by Lord Pearce because on one hand. I go transit bad defensive player and you need to get stopped so I understand the substitution the other hand. You're like okay. Are you GonNa take your best player off the court when the game still not over yet you still need to score some points so that was a mistake because when you're up by six the only thing that can really beat you is three right so if you don't the reason neck wreck trae young not a good defender. Because he can't rebound his position and down when he ain't he gets posted up right too small so who cares like I want the Miami. Am Heat with fifty six seconds ago up by six to post up. trae young. Do whatever you want to do and I would kill trae young. Just pull your hands back because you gotTA think they get a post up you move the ball. Many forces guy off the blog maybe takes dribble saw time. That's in your favor all you have to do is take away. The three point shot at that point. Then who would you rather have a controlling pace or controlling the last shot. Yeah you want trae young running clock down to less than ten. I mean you can even give it up to side to as I get it back ten seconds to go so now you think you're go- Fifty six say it takes sixteen seconds down to forty to say he thinks clock down all the way down down. You know twenty four seconds you still have a four point lead. You have to play that game so in that sense if you like. I agree with peers. If you need one-stop one-stop and they can get a two or they get a three or the offense rebound can kill you but when you're up by six there's no re there's no reason to take take trae young out of the game that's not GonNa kill you. His size is not gonNA come into play. When you're up by six and we'll come into play on different possession so mistake I mean I like appear spot either great guy? I think he's a good coach. You know how much I've talked about him. He was team. USA You know they. They talk about Japan Gun. He talked about how great he's been. How all the coaches have braved about him but up by six a mistake you just run you? Roll trae young because he's your best ball handler and as soon as that game went to. Ot Scou- yeah. There was zero chance to hawks. We're GONNA win that game. There was zero chance. That Ankara's Wild twenty-two nothing's bad but even if it wasn't twenty two zero once the the hawks had been like again young team they had been up the entire game. This we're coming up. Yesterday we talked about trae young being upset about sort of all the losing in the teams are promised. They you were getting you help and we're going to get you some help. We're going to get you some more help. It's not going to be all on you. We're going to get John Collins back so this would this would have been their best probably win of the season Scowl and they just blow in in pretty terrible fashion and. I don't know if you saw instagram. After the game to Jimmy Butler posted a video. Basically sit with the video of trae young. Basically saying the game's over he said this is mad. At trae. Young is a teller of the future. He was right. The game was over and you have draymond green. You Have Klay Thompson you have even Joel embiid all get involved during the crying Based EMOJI and try to trace credit he tweeted about it too he just Kinda you know shoulder shrug. He played it off pretty funny on twitter as well. So listen young team. I don't I this but this is all. This is my issue with the Hawks but I will say this to Duncan Robinson. Some of these guys on the heat that they're getting production from Bam out of bio triple double last night Kendrick Nunn thirty points. It wasn't all Jimmy Butler. It was the other guys on this team. I famously said that I have been wrong on the heat that I am not early in the season I wasn't buying them as a top and topped your team in the Eastern Conference. They've clearly proved me wrong so far I mentioned to see what they do as it goes as as we get close to the December fifteen trade deadline and then the the the actual trade deadline in February you worry about whether or not they make some moves on the squad because I gotta I gotTa start with them more credit and I still don't think that there are team east. That can win the East but Dan. They're going to be a tough out in the playoffs playoffs. Yeah those guys are good because they put the time in like in the summertime. He's guys they're they're working. Hard Donnas has is organizing workout so like like I've worked out Dunkin Robinson going into his senior year at Michigan and he was good. I think he's a good player. His shot was much slower. You know I think he made because he had more time time with with John Does in Miami and He needed to get himself in great shape. Not good shape great shape or you never get tired. You wear people out. And that's exactly what he did. He got his shot is quick now he left it by his foot. Work is better. And he's in great shape. He doesn't get tired. He runs before he runs off screen. He moved the ball quick. He's very similar to Joe Harris in that sense. Like Joe Hairs has gotten in great shape. That's quick release and he knows when the ball is coming. Can I get a shot off or not. And if I can't he doesn't mess around just swing does somebody else and doesn't cut guys are hard to guard i. I hate guarding guys. He's like that much rather guard like delayed isolation players thing guard guys never stopped moving and can kill you with one shot. Yeah ten threes last assisted that they have going on there in Miami and I mean crow about the Jimmy Butler thing and I'm eating crow about the and that's okay but sometimes I listen. I backed them last night. Minus eight and a half and we'll take that when baby so three no to start Scallon Powell's do some of our best bats. We'll I think we'll do it every day to close the show. That'll be a kind of our thing is like all right. Let's look at the slate and we've always talked about Wednesday nights are are some of the best. Probably the most underrated day of the week. We've got a good slate tonight. You got your Celtics going against the Pacers in Indiana. That's a tough one. I think the patients are actually favored in that matchup. So we'll get to that Close the show out the other big game last actually. Do the one big game last night was the TNT game. And that is the sixers remaining undefeated at home beating Nikola Yokich and the the the nuggets and this was this was a game Murray got her Kinda early on missed most of the game but it was an impressive showing from embiid and the sixers and like I said they're great great at home but I was more. I don't know how much of this you got the C scale but this Yo crossing this joke is thing okay so you missed the first. The first Yoga Shell was held scoreless in the first quarter. And Tonight Greg Anthony. who was on the call was Kinda calling them out saying? Hey this is a big game. You're going against embiid. You need to come out aggressive. You need to come out and looking to score looking at you know kind of you know. Take advantage of your match. Take advantage of matchup. 'cause obviously it's a good match them bead but you know be the star that your team needs you to be and he thought he was way to pass the burly on he kicked it out later and this has been a sort of a theme with Yokich this year Scout. I don't know we've talked about the weight thing and I know some people think that's overrated. Some people think that he does really needs to get himself into much better shape. I don't know if it had to do with it last night. But Yokich Kinda goes to these. Lowe's where he he he kind of loses himself within a game and I think that's something that's been hurt Doug at this year. I expected it in August to be a little bit better than they are. I mean they're still good. Team is still sitting at the conference at Fourteen and eight but I thought between them and the jazz the continuity thing that they would have the advantage of over the Lakers over the clippers even over the rockets. We're trying to kind of get Russell Westbrook into their roster and both of those teams have been somewhat disappointing this year. What did you make of? What did you make the sixers win? Did that say more about the sixers or did that. Same more about Yokich in the nuggets. I'm not down on Yokich. Because like everybody is inserting their opinion on how he should play but he's so inside game really effective like so Yokich was in Boston the other night and Tommy Heinsohn was killing him about his weight in the way that he plays. He looks like he's tired tired. All the time is always open but he had thirty twelve against the Celtics. So like how tire could he have been out there killing substance and in the first first quarter he gets. I get it like you want. Everyone wants to insert their opinion getting that he should go out there and shoot the ball every time or dropped forty or whatever it is but what he wants to get everyone involved. That's just the way he played it. How do we know that that's not his version of how he gets his own rhythm so he could be effective? He likes to touch the ball moving. Besides the side going to dribble handoff in late in the game. That's when he can go and do by the way like I said I missed the first half and I was flying but just looking at plus eight an NBA minus-eight so like if we're saying he wasn't effective. He was the fact that they help his team win. Bench that of the nuggets and which is odd. Because usually Vincent sixers sets. That debt didn't do Bible show. I would never get Bible was good. I will never insert insert those superstars and especially you know guys like draymond green right good example of him. He doesn't score a lot of points in the game there. You'll be texted game so many different ways to run the offense astrium. We take a true point guard that gets everyone involved. Why are we in turning our opinion on how he should navigate his own game? Do you think I mean we. We've sort of hit on this before or because this this was like the match up of really the only two contending teams that have a center as their best player right and that's sort of like almost a dying breed in the league right most most teams they they go wing player. I in the bigs are usually kind of like the secondary pieces even if you look what the Lakers like. You know the bronze so running that show the only other team that might be in that category as the T. Wolves but I wouldn't consider them contender by any means and Mitch. They've lost five straight. They're kind of freefalling right now. So these are really the two teams in the League that that play through center that play traditionally a little bit. I know Yoga's because more playmaking center than embiid is but they're sort of bucking the trend of the rest of the league and it being a wing league do you. Do you have like a half it in well well. I don't think this is the honest. A traditional big boasts Galliano's he's listed as a power forward he's a ball handler. He runs through the offense. He's more of a traditional wing than he is a big. What is Yokich Yoga? Jason Yoga Center. Yes what's the difference. I mean besides yeah but but they both handle the ball. They both bring the ball all of the book. Paul playmaking the Nile. Because I I I would say Yoki explain making any only places back to the basket. Well what movie are remotely similar players. First off the athleticism. I don't think Yokich doesn't have the handle. That Janas has not the unbelievable handle but I would say that Yokich okay. It is more of a traditional now. He could step out and shoe but he's not making plays like he's not taking guys off the dribble and kicking it out or Lebron is were. Were kind of like you know point four hours to say Yolk. It's more does his thing. He'll get the ball ticket. outdraw double team like I don't see he and be more similar that I think you honest does y'all's to me. I always power forward but he is more of a point forward. You said other contending teams these are the only two that are there. Big is their best player. You have to explain to me how this is not a big this is a wing. He's a wing player. That's what I would. I mean I know that he goes downhill. But he's not a traditional like you've got your traditional back to the basket big I know. He doesn't awesome bunnies he does. But he's more like Lebron than he is like Yokich. He's more like Lebron than yeah way. More like Lebron than Yokich Yup so okay so so okay. That's a fact the state you're stating a fact which may have something to do this argument or not Yokich Yokich. It's back to the back I'll give you MB. I'm with you on that. There's no question about that I think. NBC's a True True Center. But I'm I'm confused by Yokich eleven assists assist. You'll catch the ball going through him. He'll bring the ball up as a point guard. I get it you WANNA say like. He's fine was what's the difference between the buck. Saying that that you honest is their best player and he is a big position and Yokich is their best player and he's in a big position like I don't not that I don't see the difference of saying that you'd have to put your honesty in that category. I wouldn't I would not like I said I know you honest. The power forward Jaanus is much more of a take your guy off the dribble get to the rim type thing make player like he is dominant in the paint. Probably more so than anyone in the league including Yoga. Yoga Coca has a much better step out game. I think but I think you don't see Yokich consistently bringing the ball up core. Running offense like using picks like Yokich is typically in the same way that remember her. Remember back in the day. Like how the bowls it was. I think it was like a derrick rose Arab over and when Derrick rose got hurt they ran their offense through like yo through Joke Oh Kim Noah right right in the paint. That's more of the way that I see them using Yokich and tell me if I'm wrong. Maybe I am wrong but I don't think that Yokich and Janas play remotely similar ways. I look at Janas is way more thing that I do big but you'll get better three point shooter is yes. He's more of a stretch five. Yes five and yours is better than the pain. Yes using any sort of post data center and Yokich is a traditional center. Yes yes you know center. I'm not saying he's a traditional center. Scott you're you're taking you're taking words out of my mouth. He is just not the. I'm I think they are not even remotely similar players. I know they the way that they do their playmaking. I know like Yokich is going to rack up a ton of assist. He didn't rack up the assists the same way that Jaanus rex up. That says he's not now he's not looking to go downhill and get to the basket and kick it out like Janas is he is back to the basket. He's back to the basket making plays kicking it out to shooters when he gets double teams. And he's W GONNA shoot and you could also stretch out. They're just not even remotely similar and I don't think anyone would ever question or put Jaanus as he. He's not a traditional personal power forward or a traditional center in a big way to 'em beat and Yokich are so that's what that's all I'm saying those are the and for me Yokich and embiid or the two guys two centers or bigs right now in the league they are that are doing traditional center type. Things are still on winning championship style. Teams I just. Don't put you honest in that category so so when you okay you'd thank you thank you. That got incredibly wrong. Incredibly wrong like because I I don't know I don't put guys in positions anymore. I stopped doing that last year. There's there's your Lebron is a big. Is Lebron big Bro. I look at his point. I don't look at him. I don't look at you. Honest Point Guard. Janas has a big you you play through. What are you looking at Draymond Green? What do you call him? He is a playmaking four. I guess he you know he's he's more likely he's more like me. He's more like yolks than honest. Though he's much more like Yokich than Jaanus Janas and Rameau honestly compare Yossi Lebron. Yeah I do yeah I don't do the whole thing. You brought the argument positions. I I don't I don't ever do that argument. I don't do position argument. I think they're playmakers their shooters. There are slashers that are traditional bigs and I would never put Yo oh kitchen. Conversation of a traditional big put embiid in the conversation at Yokich is not A. There's no big ever in the history of the game we'd seen bakes guilty. Not just telling you what is Yokich. Do that can't do because both of them are. Both of them can handle the ball. Both of them can stretch. I ten beat as much more of a defensive player. Dr Yokich is one of the yoga by passer in the League in the League. Not a big man not on his team in the NBA. He's a top five passer. I I wouldn't disagree with you but I just feel like embiid and there's there's many more similarities between beat Yokich do than embiid and then then Yokich and honest. You know we're just GONNA wear. We have a master's degree in your. I guess I don't know well. That's rick coming up in about ten minutes because I I I don't I just don't look I look at Yokich as a big. He's a big. I don't look at Janas being I. I know you I know. He's listed as power forward. He's more of a playmaking offer. Dribble guy so what's what we'll do that about ten minutes with With Rick Beaker. Because we gotta break tire apparently because this is one of the most major disagreements. I think we've had on the show and the entire couple of months. We've been doing this. I don't what you're standing on this. I don't know where you stand. I don't look at positions. I look at playmakers shooters slashers. Shire's but that's that's where everyone at. NBC Ambient Yogurts your centers they are they are centers. I know that you don't WanNa look at positions and I understand the position list basketball air but they are centers. That's what they are and got. My point is that those are the only teams that have that are contending teams that have centers as their best player. That's it that's all I'm your your world would've center is I just rebounder Tambi. Playmaker probably need to stretch out a little bit now for example Porzingas a center. He's playing center right he slasher shooter slasher not a center. Okay he so he. You'd put him in. What more the honest mold? No Josh Donaldson is a slasher playmaker center. Yokich playmaker. That's that's what what he is to meet. There's no there's no not a slasher. He got a little bit of back to the basket but mostly ended up in a fadeaway but he playmaking big double team him. He'll shoot by typically what he wants to do is make place he's like Yokich. Draymond green very similar Yokich an hour very similar. That's who I would compare like debus. FBI me those playmaking aches by making bakes. Okay that's the point. The point guard wants to get downhill. James Harden to me screen and Jaanus does the is bringing the ball up and wants to get downhill as well. And it's kicking it out to shooters he he's you know he's a he's he's a good passer as well he's not as good a pass. Yokich is but that's that is my. That's my overall point here. Yeah that's why John. This is like a center. He's like a draymond green playmaking but differences he gets downhill like those other guys. Don't drive the scores. Much Janas plays he goes into dribble. Handoff see moves the ball side to side. He gets to into the euro's dead kicks it out to a guy for three so he the playmaking slasher but like he rebounds ball. You talked about being a rebounder. He defense big eggs at the rim. He's blocking shots. Big Yeah I would consider him more defensively like a big than what we see from Brown. The Brown you know like kind of play. Centerfield mucks up people's defense. He's not he challenge shots at the rim. But you wouldn't call Lebron rim-protector McCoy honestly rim protector recall Yokich a rim protector jobs in in pick and roll a lot guarding to dive takes a shoddy challenges comes down rebounds now offensively different type of player. He's going to get to rebound he's GonNa do. One of those water polo outlet passes or he's going to bring the ball up and go to dribble handoff. Get another guy involved. That's kind of Jaanus is going to do the same thing. Defensively challenge shot turnaround rebound. He's look to push the ball. Look to make a play. Hit One of the shooters Sir get downhill with a euro step. So why the whole position thing i. I hear what you're saying because you only look at offense. That's the reason why you look at them as similar Miller. But you're not looking at the defensive side of the ball went defensively. I think they're very similar. They both Gartner and pick and roll and turn around and rebound matters to me. tremont green another one in pick and roll. He could guard or you could switch out again. SHOCK GOES UP COMES DOWN GOES UP rebounds looks to start a fast break. You don't play making four. You're anyway that Jaanus has in his. What one two three four five six seven year career on basketball reference in you know they they'll put a position next to each each season which is basically like how? How many times have you played that position? So if you played shooting guard for the majority of the time you're listed as a shooting guard that season he has four different positions for different years so he's been listed as a point guard shooting guard small forward and power forward all of you but I would. I wonder how many guys in the League can can really boast that. I mean I think Lebron probably well Rodriguez Rodri- never gonNA shooting guard. I though I guess maybe early on in his career but you know having you know. He's he's visa power for for the last three years but he's been listed as a small forward he's played point guard. He's played late shooting guard earlier on in his career. He to me like we're dragging on us in here because he is maybe the most one of the most versatile players in the entire league so he does a lot of the things that Yogesh does but he the house or the wing player mentality. Sometimes you're right probably more on the offensive and then I think a guy like Yokich has ever had and probably ever will really ever have so i. That's that's what maybe it's just because we're maybe it's because the versatile but I'm getting sort of loss in this argument but like I say we'll ask this to rick her coming up in a little bit. Let's do this. Let's take a quick break here. Scou- will bring in and bucur will ask him about that. We want to ask them about Leonard's return to Toronto tonight how we think that will go down and whether or not that. That single move by Messiahs area guy. We've talked about a lot in the last couple of days. You Know How much of that championship and Kawhi help. Messiah his image and was that one of the single greatest moves in the history of the NBA. So all of that coming up with Rick Euchre I let me give you a quick read here from Ziprecruiter. You're you know how hard hiring can be. Finding the right. People is tough it takes a long time it can take valuable time away from you or you're trying to run your business. But luckily there's ziprecruiter Cordoba co-founder Gretchen hubner experienced. How challenging hiring be after unsuccessfully searching for a new game artists to grow her education tech company but attention switched Ziprecruiter in Saudi media? Difference and you can too by signing up for free at ZIPRECRUITER DOT com slash enter. Ziprecruiter doesn't just depend on candidates finding you it finds them for you and by using ziprecruiter screening questions to filter candidates Gretchen found it easier to focus on the best ones. 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This time I guess between Scallon an argument I didn't even really know he would get into Scott. What is your own even know either? I don't even know I'm just saying that. I believe the of that and I don't want to do this until you out. I'm just saying that I believe that you know embiid. Yokich are really in the nuggets and the sixers are really the only two contending teams. They'd have a traditional big as their best player. And that sort of like A. I don't know that's sort of like a dying breed in today's NBA. Most guys go team go with our led by wing player so I know that Yokich is super skilled but still consider him. He still a big to me so traditional big so we'll get to that a little bit with our MBA enlightener. Rick come up in a couple of minutes We've got a bunch of other stuff to get you and by the way you you see. These Zach Levine comments gal about wanting to be a number one. He's not a number one. He wants to be a number one. He's not a number two and he's not a number three test for he said yes so he told Darnell mayberry of the athletic he said this is the quote. I don't work my ass off to be up to be a number two or number three guy. I WANNA be a superstar. I want to be the top of the League type of dude and that's what I that's what I see myself as I don't sacrifice my entire summer and grind my life away just to be a regular guy in the NBA. All right. Wow how you know you know my history. You know my thoughts on Zakopane. I've made it very clear I I do. Not Think he is a number one I do like however the I think you have to have sort out of the arrogance and the competence. If you're going to be a superstar you have to. You have to be the man you have to want to be the man and I think that's so it's a big step for Wien. My question isn't though about the attitude cute. It's about as overall game whether or not sort of trust him so it is. I think he's number one guy and do you like him coming out and saying that I wanna ask you what what do you think. What do you think it takes to be a number one? I think you have to have that mentality. First and foremost if he's got part of it but I think I think you have to make people better. I think you have Aftab significantly. Make your teammates around better. I I don't think in six years we've seen that with Zakopane and I think he's I think physically he's amazing. He's one of the athletically. He's one of the best athletes in the entire league. He kind of reminds me a little bit of like a a better. A better shooting poor man's Westbrook and that I see a lot of really great things in his game. I see a lot of things that he can. And do. I see the potential. I see the athleticism but then I also see all the other negative stuff that I don't know that that In six years for him specifically that you see that hasn't been able to be coach out of his game. We we saw earlier this year with Jim. Boylan trying to say and the team the Bulls team trying to say. Hey we want you take more threes. We want you to be more efficient. We're trying to help you become a better player. And he sort of really pushed back on that And so so that's what I would say. I didn't to be number one player. First and foremost you have to make your teammates significantly better and I don't know that he does that in either. Stop whether it was a T.. Wolves or with the Bulls. Now I couldn't agree more. So it's a he. He doesn't have it where you know he. He's got just gain going and he's forcing coaches to double team him to trap him and he's like picking apart or he's making that hockey assists before it gets to the corner he's quick quick Pocket Pass to get the ball all out. That big is now hitting the corner and that would be making that play happen and you know the guy in the corner ends up getting wide open three because of it. He's not consistent enough in making people around him better. It's more than just driving to the basket and dumping off late and you look at completely crazy. Level Citizen James Harden is pretty a good at it when you double team him at finding open players. I think he could be better. I think he he leads a little bit selfishly. But he's such a good score that he can get away with it. Did you look at like the Bronx. Probably the best in the league. Maybe maybe the best we've ever seen at drawing to in in dissecting defenses so so if you have a long way to go before that and you know like how you look at a guy like Kimba Walker you look at him as like one or did you look at him and cy never be at one on a championship team. I think he's a perfect situation. I think with Boston where he's got a lot of other really good players around him and I think I don't know if Boston has any guy that is a one but they've got a lot of twos. If that makes sense to me and I think I don't think they can win a championship with Kurt Russell. That that they have but I I. I wouldn't put it out of the Roma possibility that if they improve this thing that could be that guy That's that's A. That's a real unique circumstance. Though I think by the way we have what okay we have here on the line and we want to bring in here are NBA enlightener first and foremost rick. What's going on? Thanks for hopping on today. We were talking about. Zach Levine. And you start that we arce without me like what's what's up trying to you know. Let's say I feel is if I don't know but I feel as Ziff. This might be a contentious show. This might be a contentious appearance by yours truck. I don't know it's just Kinda Vajpai live by get based on some of the early early back and forth the topic choices etc.. Well you're you're Zach serving guy you put in the note that you think he can be one. I said. Tell me if I'm wrong. I said he's kind of like a better shooting. Poor man's Westbrook in the way that I described it was I. I see all all these things that he can be in all these skills that he has and the athleticism and I'm like wow. This is unbelievable but then you know late in games. He's not making the right decision. I think he puts his head down and dribbles too much. I think he's kind of inefficient. And so I've said I've been for months now. Maybe even years I I just I don't see him as as a one. You do. Tell me why I'm wrong. Tell me why we're both both wrong number one. I feel as if he's he is far from a finished product but as I watch his evolution Dan. First of all Minnesota's a mixed bag and this is the difficulty with with young players. As you gotta be in the right situation. You've got to be surrounded by the right guys and you gotta be putting the right role. He has embraced the challenge of being a better defensive player of Of of looking to attack the RIM as opposed to settling for mid range jumpers. I just see his growth with Chicago and his fearlessness. In wanting to take not only the responsibility but to take that shot does the decision making have to improve without without question without question and he's twenty four years old he can. There's there's no question he can shoot it from range. There's no question that he can not only beat the first guy but beat the second guy. If if you're a half step slow and I just I believe that he's his desire have to play the right way is there and so does he ultimately get their determined by the coaching. Did he gets the players that he's around them. But if I look at the requisite things that you need the handle the ability to attack the ability ability to shoot from range and fearlessness in taking all that on with the game on the line he has those ingredients so I I'm not saying definitively he's going to get there but I've seen a huge step from where he was last year and at twenty four years old. I'm still waiting to say you know what. Give me another year or two before. I say he can't be this because I've seen signs that maybe he could be. What was it deal with the number one thing now the way the game is I spoke with the ball movement and it doesn't even matter anymore well and that's for me? That's why can he do. All things isn't going to be a playmaker playmaker like Lebron or probably not. I don't know that he's that kind of a passer. But the ability to the thing is is that he can draw so much attention because he is so quick and athletic and can't shoot it. I mean that recipe. He's a he is. I have way more confidence. that he that that he's not gonNA falloff in his shooting. His his three point shooting this year is is his adult career at a career high and he's shooting seven and a half a game like everything that I see about his shooting. He's going to continue. Continue to shoot. He can shoot it. A forty percent clip Russ's has never has never had that so that's one distinction but the other part is yes like. Can he do all those things not necessarily does he have to do all those things. No but can can be a closer or can he a be the guy if you have a playmaker that you can look to and and get him that shot. I believe that he can be but it it is. It is going to take more than one piece. And that's really where we are in the game today. It's everybody's still hung up on the big three three or the the the two. It's like no if you look at the really good teams. The Toronto Raptors prove this last year for certain and I would make the case is that the warriors pre Kevin Durant made the same case. which is we need to have multiples that we can go you too? We need to have depth and versatility and two or three guys that are willing to knock that shot down with the game on the line. Which is why I like the clippers? You know not only defensively. Can they lock in. But Paul George Lou Williams squad Leonard. I'm good with any one of those guys getting the ball with the game on the line. I don't disagree with either of you guys and saying like you can't just I don't think you know the days. Are you one superstar and he just carries you to you. Know however you want to go like that's not we don't live even that world anymore. We probably have never lived in that world in the NBA. Really but I you bring up the rappers last year like they clearly had Kawhi Leonard as their best player like everybody else fell in line. And even you bring up those warriors teams like Steph. Curry was the Guy Right. I mean I know we love Klay Thompson League I know. Scale your dream on guy and those guys but but they they complimented imperfectly and picks and pick step up when he needed it and they're you know numerous different championship teams throughout the last several years. That have you. I need that guy. You need the One guy. You still need that. One guy to go to the clippers this year Rick I mean I would still stay quiet. Still that guy over Paul George Yeah. It's great that Paul George can pick up the slack. Lack of quiet isn't it isn't having a great night or can just take things over the top completely. You still do need that one guy right but but it can't just be that that one guy and this goes with Zach Levine thing like he has to be all these things for all people look Klay Thompson has had huge meaningful meaningful. Not just picking Steph up. Like he's had a game that saved series on more than one occasion. Fred vanfleet hit some huge shots kyle. Lowry came through like so. That's what I mean in terms of with Zach like and this is this is a small thing and it's more anecdotal. Maybe but like when he got called out by boiling and was is benched for the three defensive mistakes early in the game and he comes out and he gives you fifty in the next game like that to me is a guy says. Oh you don't think I can be that kind of a player and didn't do it in a rebellious way. Where you lose? He does it in a way where you win that to me speaks a lot about where the guys mentality is. I think his heart and his head are in the right place. And you could be Zach Levine. And you could go get numbers and it would just be about. I just want to be seen as a great player I think. The distinction with Zack Zack. Is Zack wants to be a great winning player and that proved the way he handled the whole. Jim Boylan being called out to me. Me was demonstration that his head is harder in the right place and look whether he can make good on all of that on a not guaranteeing anything on that I just. I think it's way too early to dismiss his ability to become that kind of a player. And I think there's evidence to say to to believe it to to say there's reason to believe there's reason to be Zach Levine guy. Because of the way he's handled some difficult situations I use oncle or something like what is our they get the floor back but by the way he he had fifty they were down by six with like fifteen seconds to go and if the miraculous win to be Charlotte so yeah that is in the right place. Why the hell they eight seventeen? If he's that guy that's much uncle bucur the lightner. What's the deal after Eh seems not that bad? Yeah the team's not that no they're not they're not that bad. They're not that bad. And they've had a couple of like heart. If had a couple of heartbreaking heartbreaking losses without question I mean I think it is at least at least four that have been like last second and again. Here's the the other part like there is a learning curve to figure out how to be that closer how to be that guy to make those decisions what you go to and look. Jim Boylans learning on the job too so I just. This is an between wanting to play a lot faster improve their defense figure out how Laurie lowry marketing works into that like I. It's not just Zack. I've kind of I still. I still feel as if like. I don't know what the Bulls are going to be this year. But I I believe in their roster. Everybody was Kinda they can be sneaky good this year because of the roster. I still believe that Anzac is part of that. Window Carter Juniors showing that he can play Kobe white up and down like a rookie but like I think he's an NBA player and figuring out the point guard rotation with Christiane Christiane inside Iran's ski and and White. I think there's some things to be figured out. I'm just I just think it's way too early again when I see guy who's called out like that I've seen way too many guys who are talented. Who get embarrassed like that? Who would go? Who would just just be off the reservation? They're gonNA screw you like you're not doing that to me. That came out and played harder the next game and you can say hey they were down to Charlotte or whatever they ended up winning the freaking game. I mean now now we're kind of we're kind of going back and forth. We're not gonNA give we're going to say hey look at the record. And we're not going to pay attention to what records composed of and they were going to say you one and he came back and he got it was one takes. It was a miraculous win. You're acting like it was A. He got mad he had fifty and he got him to win. Well given the GAL I dunno fifty voting that Emmy beat Atlanta last night when Atlanta like trae wins to win nine percent of all those games. You gotta factor that stuff but anyway. Here's my thing. Here's my thing if a guy gets fifty and he loses I give you credit like you got your fifty. It wasn't a winning fifty. I'm not impressed. You get fifty and you win. I don't care how. Oh you got it on board. You gotta be careful though. Scout isn't like that so you can't throw the unimpressed. Word out there scallops man about you would have only had forty seven if you didn't hit that miraculous shot. You know what I'm talking. You know what I'm talking about. Hey let's do first off. This is going to be a contentious show. It is co Mascow man when you. Who are you with mom? How you related is that what circumstance I would have it? I like. I've seen a lot of them for one reason or another like I don't know if I told you guys. But like I went to see Bulls warriors here the night before Thanksgiving you know why I went more than anything. Because I knew that there wasn't going to be traffic. It was going to be easy to get in out and nobody was going to get. We're going to be at the game so I could have conversations Galore with people it was like it was just really convenient and I want to say I. I've seen them a couple I saw. I was up in Portland. I saw them up in Portland that same that same weekend I was up. There took my son up there and I was working on a piece that had to do with the some blazers and the Bulls. That was their next stop so I was around them for a couple of games and I just think I think they're better than their record. And I think that the more I learn about Zach Levine lavine like I just thought he was a highlight guy. You know I thought he was thought he was a dunker thought. He was a showboat. And what I'm seeing and and hearing is that he's more than that. So yeah if I'm if I'm driving that bus I'm good with that I've I've I've I've I've I've put my foot my stamp. I jumped on board with guys far far. Worse Than Zach Levine. So I'll live with it and I just I don't understand why you have to come out and state that as well that's why then that's the plate and show everybody that you're a number one and number ones win games and number one makes others around them better and everyone. Then you don't have to have a discussion okay. If you don't do. I describe the narrative I mean we should do numbers at twenty three twenty four. I look at his age is a factor for me too and the places that he's been in the role that he's had. This is the first time he's really been given the keys to the car. So okay I know how my kids. It's drove the first time. Put Him behind the wheel like get some some good things. Some good instincts the things we gotta learn how to do. So so I'm going to give Zach that that latitude. Well you're right about this being a contentious show we have to. I'll I need you to break tie a little bit later about this This embiid Yokich Jaanus discussion that we somehow stumbled into in the first half an hour scout. I but I want to do this. I because speaking of teams that may or may not be better than the record. Let's do the Hawks thing that we did at the start of the show as well. They lose in pretty terrible fashion last night aperture and of course the game is over up six with a minute left. He gets taken out right after that put. Back Gannet was kind of a weird coach and assistant by Lower Pierce. But what what what this hawks thing. I wasn't high on them coming into the year. Rick I know there was some other people scowl included And I just thought they were too young. I think they're proving that right now and there was some sort of blow up last week after the loss of the nets where the the the organization said. Hey Trust US trae. We're going to get you some more help. It's not just going to be on you. What do you make of the Hawks Star last night? Trae young what did you sort of made it their start to the season. Well I look I put them in the same camp of the teams that have been and the that have really really bad records and And not only have bad records but this is the distinction. This is why I think the Hawks folks have been a disappointment one because they gave us a little glimmer when they came out of the gate I think they won their first three games or they were the came out of the gate. Fairly strong long is that they're not. They're not competitive. The hawks have too many games where they're not competitive. The PELICANS have too many games where they're not competitive. The Knicks have too many games where they're not competitive and I believe that when you looked at those teams you. They weren't expecting a necessarily a great win loss record but you were expecting them to be competitive and they all have the same issue they live and die by how they're playing offensively and their defensive after effort is reflected by how they're playing wing offensively and we just expected that for the players they had the attitude that they had that they were going to be better than that. And that's where I. That's where I put the hawks. The hawks all their issues are are man. Maybe not all all their issues. The majority of their issues are at the defensive end of the floor and then they do which is what is creating you know a difficult watch for for a lot of games get behind get behind by double digits. WE'RE GONNA get back in it by shooting. The three threes aren't fall in long rebounds now the the twelve point deficit is twenty four point deficit. And you're chasing the Dragon. I just see I. I see that happening with these teams in particular particular and with the Hawks and and I expected more. I just expected I expected more from The guys that they have and and and I'm not seeing it and I think maybe the other element that you're seeing is if you add into that is that is that locker room. Leadership Element is. Where is that coming from? I don't know that Trae for all that. He is a talent when you're not giving it to me at the defensive end when you're a defensive liability it's really hard for calling out guys for that resonate because they're looking at they're going. Hey we you might be scoring but we gotta cover your ass at the other. Iran like ease up with you know this is not acceptable. SCALL- sleep you're is going on. You know what I feel about the Atlanta Hawks. I just feel like that John Collins is busy twenty five games. Kevin heard just played twelve taking time and I agree with Rick's defensively. There are atrocious and so many times they act like they don't care but I'll go through the list. The Nicks the cavs CAV's Atlanta Washington. They all those four teams. It's an embarrassment to be a professional team. They don't care about the defensive end they give probably more effort the lifetime sky in New York in the summertime then they give an NBA game. So do I expect you. I when I factor in my choices who I think is going to be good. I assumed at Atlanta who had great culture last year and played hard every night. They played hard every night and trae young by the way even though he's small all and not giving giving it to you on the defensive in he played hard defensively he gave all he had defensively. He's not doing that anymore. He's focused on his twenty twenty eight and ten and he did not get the glory for being a big time score in playmaker. Give me the ball and shoot thirty five footers and all that stuff but he. He doesn't even try anymore so you I expect any team. That doesn't try in a League now. Really hard to play defense. You can't touch you got to move your feet if you don't care forget it man like I can't watch it I can't I if I'm paying my I'm I'm leaving at halftime because I'm I'm pissed that I paid my money and I'm watching that don't care and by the way we ratings being down thirty percent in the NBA. You gotta believe. These fans are not stupid. Don't don't think you could score. More points of said fans are going to be happy and you get to watch. This is not true. Fans know that people don't care about the defensive end of the floor. Yeah well and you don't have competitive games. I mean these these wild like you look up and you know it's a thirty point game. We're we feel as if this year more than than ever. We're seeing a lot of those you look at these obscene numbers up on the board ball like the core early in the third quarter. Yeah they're like up load management game. Just move onto the next one. Just take my own. My own version of load management is. Let me get my eighteen points and let me give effort on the defensive end. Lived to fight another day and I mean if that's what you guys want us to become become go ahead and if teams now you guys let's say you got you guys with the lack of physicality the NBA with the load management the NBA with A. Hey It's a marathon of the season. NBA like the players are the victims when they traded. If you want that then go ahead let me just work on my brand. Whatever that means and get my money would ain't that is the root rate can't tell me value in your heart you'll want we already? We already knew that. You Watch the Lakers. When you watch even Miami when you watch Miami him you know quit in them? When you watch teams that play hard? It is staggering compared to the teams. That don't care when you wash Washington play. I love watching Brad view and I ain't got no beef Ravioli at all. But they don't care they get scored on and there's dot com coaches face player space where they're like upset that he just got scored Iran nor do they care to fix their lack of rotation so it just whatever all right. Let's just go down the other end a big part of that a big part of that is and you know. I know you will agree with this. But I look at the roster composition. And we've won. We've fallen so so in love with analytics that were measuring every guy by what he provides as far as this number of rebounds or this this the three point percentage or whatever it might be and the intangibles of having veterans in the locker room who are going to challenge young guys and who are going to. We're not going to be satisfied with just doing what you said like going. You know what let's just let's cash in our chips. Let's let's let's save it for another another day. I mean that's why even with the warriors and how they're playing the you know Klay Thompson being around Steph curry being around Draymond Green. Maybe not playing thing every game. But there's an intrinsic expectation of if you play here you play for this team you're going to play hard. And yet the warriors have what not the worst record in the league. Certainly one of the one of the two worst records in the league but they play hard every night so you know. There's there's a little bit of de Ngelo Russell kind of leak in but for the most part. There's an expectation and I just think especially when you get off to a slow start like the like the hawks like the Knicks. Like the Pelicans and then you don't in have any veteran presence to say. Hey I'm not look. We're not losing nine games in a row like I'm not I'm not cool with this us. And they're gonNA get after somebody and they're gonNA get after them in the locker room and you're leaning instead on a really young coach and again You know outside outside of Al in New Orleans but Lloyd Pearson Atlanta maybe throws Chicago in there with Jim. Jim Boylan a New York with fizz. Like where do you go. You got a young coach and you have no veteran presence. What are you what are you gonNA lean on? Where do you where do you go? And and so it's it's a recipe and you know I just feel like GM's and owners want to be the smartest cat you know you get. The smartest cat is a bunch of young guys. And you find that next guy who's a surprise as opposed to go into that old vet who everybody knows kind of solid set and yeah but I didn't discover anything with that or his numbers might not look right. I just I don't think we've I think we've taken the intangibles out of the game name and it's and it's like it's reason why there's five years ago there were two teams who got thirty percent of there's three point scoring they're scoring from three from three pointers. It was Houston and Golden State. Now this at this point I think there's twenty teams twenty teams. I know there's at least thirteen. I'm trying to remember that was number thirteen thirteen or twenty but almost half the leak. You've gone from two to half the league now are there that many guys and that many teams shoot shoot the three that well that they should be getting it or they just volume shooting from three point range because the numbers say that. That's a play either going to the rim or shooting from three.