Massachusetts CCC proposed changes, delivery only and caregivers
Hi It's Mike. Crawford welcome to the jerks podcast. Wanted to tell you why we chose anchor. For Our podcast hosting, it's the easiest way to make it podcast. Let me explain it's completely free this creation tools that allow you to record in editor podcast right from your phone or computer. So easy I can even do it. Anchor will distribute podcast for you. So it can be heard on spotify apple podcast and many more. And if you're paying for hosting services right now for your podcast, why this is completely free anchor is completely free and you can make money from your podcast with no minimum listenership. It's everything you need to make a podcast in one place anchor dot. FM. Jerks sponsored by UFC w fourteen, forty, five, a labor union representing cannabis employees in Massachusetts if you're a cannabis employees worried about your health and safety. And are not being heard at work UFC W. local fourteen, forty, five dot org or call them at one, eight, hundred, four, three, nine, one, four, four, five. Morning Commissioners on a daily today I carry a relatable sentiment with everyone's who in being in will my internet make it to the end of this hearing? I. WanNa thank the Commission and its staff for committing to the mission and quickly pivoting to virtual participation during the state of emergency. The Massachusetts Patient Advocacy Alliance strongly advises the Commission to maintain a steady course in developing a more equitable medical program if we want to fully integrate our medical program with the medical system, seek insurance coverage for medical products and services with have the support of healthcare providers, personal care attendant agencies, and also be in line with their process. In January Twenty fifteen, the MPAA math mathematically theorized caregiver ratio of one caregiver. Ten patients would be sufficient to provide safe access for the number of registered patients during that time period. At that time, the Patrick Administration, Patrick Administration, and had been sitting idle for over two years would zero dispensaries. We filed a bill in response service. The one and caregiver patient ratio is no longer necessary. It is obsolete today in Twenty Tony. Every adult twenty one plus can grow plants without a caregiver registration. The exception is when a patient cannot accumulate there sixty days supply from the allowed six plants. NPA would much rather see caregivers registered on a case by case basis similar to the process. My personal caregiver went through to register for his second patient. An arbitrary number of patients per caregiver will likely opened the door to a grey market is indistinguishable from the legally. Regulated market you and the staff have worked so hard on developing prior to question for elicit operators were boldly participating in interviews with Mel well, known media outlets while making claims they were registered with the DP h legal compliant, and qualified to collect patient's private data with no way for law enforcement to verify any of this insidious patients got sick from contaminated medicine stolen from assaulted. This regulation is also extremely inadvisable without a task force controlled by the state without a task force policy. In place, we are leaving our local citizens to the enforced by the federal government. The commission should instead pursue the removal of vertical integration and allow MTC endorsement policy proposal by Commissioner does go forward. This process will allow for qualified small business participants to apply for fifteen hundred square foot men nickel retail license stock with their favorite products to dispense registered patients. Lastly, the Massachusetts State House passed a bill allowing telehealth permanently. This is helpful to communities who socio economic backgrounds have traditionally prevented patients from spending time travelling long distances or scheduling childcare to attend doctors visits removing the ability for new patients to seek medical registration be virtual participation will prevent the participation of patients they're ambulatory or cannot afford a premium fee for an in-home patient visit. Speed. Okay. Sorry. Thank you very much Nicole. Take. We have a big show. We're talking about what happened yesterday they were regulations proposed. Things that are going on are we start off with click clip from Nicole snow the mass patients advocacy alliance. She. was talking a bunch of the ASA my opinion about taskforce talking about how we don't need caregivers anymore she has a caregiver. But she is want anyone else ever caregiver. That's weird. We have some great guests here. We're here right now on Zun we have number one dance Scotland hosted. The Im Cannabis Sativa podcasts what's Up Man Let me on. Okay. All right can you hear me? Yes, very well. Yeah. Glad to be on. Thanks for having me. I went right to you because you do a podcast like you have a taped, you don't have to deal with a the broadcasting bullshit issues. That must be so much easier. Right? I mean. It definitely is I mean at first like I wanNA see the first few months of doing the PODCAST I. I, sort of scripted everything but I sort of go off the cuff I in at most have bullet points but then as you do it more and more you get a workflow. So it's pretty simple. Yeah. And how long have you been doing this show now? today's actually the second year. So yeah, two years. Very cool. We also have Dr. Marian McNab, she's with the candidates center excellence. Everybody Hey Mike. Thanks for having me on today. Thank you see a meltdown a little bit with the villagers. Join Great. You can always expect some technical issues always anything's virtual. I thought this was easy now like this isn't hard I can do this. Then it always throws like that. That is just ridiculous I wanNA smash the system we use. Why did you change on me? In. we have Janelle. Man I wanNA. Make sure I get your last Saturday. Say Your last. Day, Journal. going. Going yet. going. What's up? What's hotel me about yourself because I know that you're you've been on the show with grant recently interviewed you and your husband and you have a business tell tell us about yourself. my background is in accounting finance than doing it for over twenty years now. Always we both always been entrepreneurial and we wear specifically leading honestly to do delivery in. Legal Cannabis when it was recreational Once delivery rules came out. We realize that we were definitely behind the eight ball because you really need retail the instead of delivery rules. Right now the company that we're starting is called the Emerald Turtle? It's going to be out of Wareham. We were waiting like I said to figure out what we were going to be doing because we really want to do delivery, but it wasn't anything. Now we think be vertically integrated in have delivering. So. But we're still we're still seeing our fingers crossed that we actually get wholesale. And Obviously Grant Smith's here. We already introduced him. He was helping me fixed system. Ask Good evening, Mike always a pleasure to be here really excited to to get into the caregiver issue and why I'm so excited to oppose what some of the people involved with that patient group trying to say at the public hearing yesterday and why I'm why I felt their arguments were bad faith attempts to make apologies for what was in. Essence an argument that boiled down to this caregiver proposal proposal would hurt dispensary prophets and I look forward to explaining why allowing each caregiver have ten patients at once in their caregiver grows rather than the one patient under the current limits is a far better system for medical cannabis patients, caregivers, and all those who favor low access to low-cost medicine the like so. And so let's talk about that everybody we start off Nicole snow. Michael Tulip also spoke Jeremiah. Mass. Patients advocacy. Aligns. Medical Cannabis. Pass. In two, thousand, twelve we went to testify the several times right in the beginning of the regulations. And we were patients Michael Malta myself. Other other folks the shadow it's definitely there. And we wanted caregivers. That's what we are asking for an immediate. Bph. We watched to as. We went up there and testify, Gamal? Senate Bassey said there were suit after suit after suit after sue All these folks in their dispensary suit that were patients that we're talking about health and safety. Things that I'm talking about now the health and safety from protecting us from those same suits. They were using health and safety to stop caregivers. At they were doing back then and we. Since then says, two, thousand, twelve, two, thousand, thirteen. We wanted ten to one caregivers in for awhile MPAA was all about it and they had bill and they got a dozen co-sponsors. In today, they're not for it even though the president of the organization has a caregiver. So she she says it's Was a great for her in her friend. Michael. Jeremiah their caregiver apparently. But no one else can get a caregiver I mean that but that's okay like she doesn't want to expand it. I mean that to be just fraudulent. Issues I wanna hear from the guests who wants to go I. Can I I normally wouldn't jump in but this is an issue that close to my heart not only because. It's something that as you said, Mike, is a fight that goes back to twenty twelve. But also because I myself spent a decent amount of time trying to get this caregiver proposal in front of. Commissioners. I, met with all the different commissioners about this I. explain my thoughts I talked to them through the issues, and so it's a proposal I know inside now and part of the reason why I'm so frustrated is not because these. People disagreed with it I. Think it's possible to have good faith disagreements about regulatory proposals but because I felt they were disingenuous with their arguments and so just for some context on, there are two different ways for medical cannabis patients to obtain medication. Right now, one is to go to a retail medical cannabis dispensary, which although they all started as nonprofit operations in two thousand twelve are now almost ninety nine percent four profit operations due to a lot. Change that occurred in two thousand seventeen after the adult US law passed. So all of these dispensaries, the brick and mortar dispensaries charge patients between three hundred to four hundred dollars an ounce in most cases for flower a hundred dollars a gram per fico in some places, and it's just simply unobtainable, and then to add insult to injury there, hardship programs offer between five percent and a ten percent discount and someone on on social security disability three hundred. To four, hundred a month even with a thirty dollar discount is still fifty percent of my monthly social security disability stipend. So patients like myself rely on caregivers right now however, and what those caregivers can do they can grow medication for patients like myself, and then they can provide it to us at cost only just the cost of growing the medication and transporting it to us as patients, and that's especially important for homebound and disabled patients like myself. Well. It's almost impossible and Mike. This is actually how I met you. It's almost impossible to find a caregiver right now because they are all limited to only working with one patient at a time and those who work with more than one patient at a time end up targeted by the are MD's and their lackeys get they try to get their. Operations shutdown because they are correct in some way that those operations are operating illegally. So what patients like myself have been trying to say as well if you allowed more caregivers to if you allow caregivers to register more patients at once in this case, ten patients per one at once with five hundred square feet of canopy for those caregiver gross then those. Caregivers could put their name on record put their grow location on record allow the commission to inspect those grows, and then also provide more patients with low cost access. But what did the people who objected say they really tip their hand Mike and I wanna I wanna read this quote that tipped the hand of the people who objected they said this was McColl. Snow speaking in January of two, thousand, fifteen the MPA. mathematically theorized a patient to caregiver ratio. One caregiver to ten patients would be sufficient to provide safe access for the number of registered patients at that time period at that time, this is the key. The Patrick Administration had been sitting idle for over two years with the spencers then she goes on to say. The one to ten caregiver to patient ratio is no longer necessary. It's obsolete and that's hips the hand which what she's basically saying there is that when we're there were no dispensaries. Sure. These caregivers were fine. But now these nonprofit caregivers, the dispensaries, we don't want them. Let me say it another way to it was fine when there were no dispensaries to pay them. Once they're dispensaries their pay. MPAA. Their donation fee. Than their lobbies, the dispensaries I mean they you know it's funny too because she she said they're opposite the reason for it is obsolete, but she has a caregiver. You grant you have a carrier, but you know who doesn't have a caregiver right here in if I can't get a caregiver if I can't find a cat caregiver. and. I host a show. I've been involved in the Movement for twenty years. Yes what the average person can't find a caregiver like so that such like. Like let them eat cake. That's what that reminds me of like like it's she has a caregiver. But she doesn't want anyone else to have one in most people. The reality is we want caregivers I'm desperately wanting to have illegal caregiver because I want better prices, I want better products, and there is other options that go beyond what grant talked about. You know you have the legal mass dispensaries that are ripping off you have what grant has, which is care, which isn't an option for me. So both of those for me for the most part are not attainable today right now because I is a working class person in Massachusetts. A disability, but I cannot afford to justify spending that amount of money at its Massachusetts Spencer I. Feel Like I am being rock she'd mentioned robbery anytime I walk into one of those Massachusetts dispensaries I, feel like I'm being rob. So the other options are to break the law and that's what a lot of us have to do as a wet most of us most of US patients I am the majority here. This it makes me WANNA cry. We have to break the law in with that includes the driving up to me. In buying it legally up there because we illegally by as we ever card in a main dispensary but includes legally driving back that the border so that that's illegal or I can go to the street. It by from the numerous grow is out there who haven't been allowed to be legal. You know. So if we allow caregivers we we can regulate those growers. A lot of those grows at seven patients right now they are in my opinion, a lot of them almost like caregivers but legally they are not and they should be we need to make a legal. I know grants raised in his hand. He's got a follow up but I wanna hear from anyone else that has a an opinion on this on the panel I let them in because we're monopolizing right now. All right So I've I've actually been to like multiple sort of medical slash recreational states like my like for caregivers emerged. Three years ago when I visited Michigan and Michigan honors out of state cards I went to their canvas top there and there were people of all different stripes all different colors that were there were caregivers you know and you had like A. Huge variety of different products different strains like I. Remember those one deal I got world's like four Four for twenty dollars in the edibles were at least seventy milligrams like I have seen how a confederation of small growers can provide a very, very competitive prices in very, very good product and and when I came back to Massachusetts, it was it was it was a culture shock and I've been wanting to sort of fight ever since then the make things better more tangible and I mean, I can't afford the dispensaries here in Massachusetts the. Qualify for the ten percent discount but ten percent off off what three hundred, three, fifty, that's that's just too. That's that doesn't really make a debt and also I. I I also find that I have to go I have a main caregiver. Thankfully, I was able to find out about her and she's able to to get it to me or I'm or she sometimes comes to Massachusetts or whatever, and she has patients in mass too. So I have to go to the caregivers to be able to afford my medicine or you CBD flower and It's just it's just ridiculous there a program shouldn't be this bad and. Again. You know when you mentioned now she's a main caregiver helping you Massachusetts again people are asking me WHO's talking GonNa make sure they know. That is dance Scotland. He's the host of the I M Cannabis Sativa podcast. To that is He's a patient in Massachusetts and he's getting help from a main caregiver semi that says it all. We're. Getting. I feel like I get more help is medical patient from the main program. Than I do for the Massachusetts program that I fought for and I have his name on the on the wall behind me over here the Kampot Michael Martha we fought for that Nicole snow draped herself in the King of Pot Michael Malta she was a friend of his he would be disgusted by what she said did this week. I normally wouldn't say that you know because I don't think it's my place to speak, but you could play the videos. You know he cared about caregivers seat you can go back to his words. He he's he said a lot of what you said. Dance Scotland. What about the other two guests? Do they have any comments on his caregiver? MPAA issue. Yes I. You know I think what? You know I think it's it's one. It's really important. You have caregivers I think a lot of the cultivators that are out there in the caregiver out there actually probably have more tailored medicine at more varieties just like Dan was saying the ability to actually give a product design and row products bats that's really helpful for medical patients and affordable I. Think there can be balanced between having dispensaries open and characters on especially for hardship medical patients in has practical really from the research studies that I've done. Got Severe Medical conditions you do consume more you need larger amounts of cannabis. You need wider varieties to treat different conditions and I wouldn't I mean, why would you limit at somebody from being able to access that medicine? So I I also have had some instances where MPA had I was working on a bill with Stedman delay. In for veterans in our access and MPA also testified against that bill. So it makes me question why what is your patient advocacy focused right now you know are really looking at patients. Do you WANNA limit caregivers would be know that this is a good model and it works You know what are the motives behind this? So I testified yesterday to again along the lines of increased the caregiver limits. Patients and to have honored square foot grow. It makes sense and and. What kind of patients grew continually now not not just once but as a campaign twice now has bet against patient access I with the Veterans Bill that Stephen Mandela wanted, which was a no brainer and they did it they did cause harm it did deliberate and stop it, and we have to fight for another year to get that ass still has. So she'll veterans are being harmed right now by our mass patient advocacy lines. I saw someone on their on our. Facebook page are you know upon news of the said Oh now I'M GONNA cancel my donations. You said that six months ago. Like when you post that night, notice it like that's almost discussing at this point they are still saying that you should cancel your donation six months ago. Like. Anyone that he's supporting the MPA at this point if you're giving them money. Like, you have to question yourself like 'cause you're part of the problem, nobody should be giving the money at this point, they screw the screwed veterans. Now, screw the patients with this caregiver bs that they just. And they wanted to again we've proven over and over again they wanna work with the cops. They want the cops to come in they want the cops to bust people and then they say will worried about fats. But. They're asking for taskforce. They've worked with police before they've Dave granted out dry sticks to globe. They've dry stitch to who we maps legally enforcing them to take down caregivers. They are anti access for patients improved over and over again June, how do you want to say anything about this? Dr McNab you. WanNa follow up any. I know that we were personally adding. A few things that we heard in the public. And the public hearing the other day. My question though is, can you even cover your costs with one patient? And Giver. Thinking through June seem that that wouldn't even cover your cause and if that was what they were trying to do, that would be a solid argument as you. You want to at least cover the cost of what they're doing being that they're not getting paid as far as I understand. So they still have to have some type of other job and do this on the side. It's not. It's not. It's not a an easy thing to grow good quality cannabis. It takes time. So to me, it's bad enough that you're not getting compensated but can you at least get them to cover their costs and that would be the first thing I would think of is how you do that with one patient As a possible tennis, even stretching it. You know I think people are doing this for love. But ten is reasonable like that's a reasonable. We can. We can compromise on ten and I think that keeps everyone. You know it's so funny too 'cause out. They're not going to go out of business with the amount of caregivers that will be that have ten patients, right? I think it will expand the market for everyone to I. think they're really silly. They don't understand markets at all. Actually they're like bad business people all of them and it's been proven with the madman. Model I mean they're not doing well. You know what I want you to know who's doing well, the ball caregivers in Maine I mean. They're killing it in. That's exactly what we want to see here in Massachusetts actually, and I know a lot of people who are real growers going to go to your grant in a second. Still, not happy with this proposal because it's not perfect they're like we can't make money on it. We can't this. You can't do that. Well, that's the idea. A lot of times is to get things passed, and once you get past, you know six years down the line if you have twenty, five, thousand or. Three thousand or whatever it is that they haven't made I mean we should. Let let's be serious Massachusetts as much larger than me. Main has twenty five hundred caregivers. That's a lobby. So once that lobby is there, they can then go to the state house in Astra some changes, the other candidates control commission. So that's what I WANNA see. I WanNa see you know a real group of people who WANNA be legal get to go legal and it's smaller players they can get in they can experiment they can try stopped caregiver and then watch a licensed business. That's the next step up you know a micro grow or something like that gives people opportunity with smaller capital do themselves the hustlers out there makes legal gives them opportunity we should be gone. In me? Which I'm one of the main differences in moon. In the problem. Maine has. Evolved over the years in their big concern, how's that big candidates coming in and try to shut down honestly but main had very similar type of thing, and now they have the option against storefronts. So like Baid started out just simple caregivers and now some caregivers have store fronts too so. There's a lot of opportunity in Maine because he's been there for so long. It's been there for fifteen years growing just didn't start overnight but they the difference of Maine is they started with caregivers in later dispensary we're doing the opposite where we're stocked with dispensaries. Then allowing caregivers later you know so just the opposite really. Smaller better being differences that in Massachusetts part of why this proposal so unique is that the operations like you're saying general half to be not for profit and not just not for profit they have to be ah cost and that doesn't even include the caregivers time. So the people who are signing up for this, they're giving all their information they're doing this pro bono for the most vulnerable patients the most. Impoverished the most disabled patients in the entire state and they they are doing this basically out of the goodness of their heart main closer to a commercial caregiver model. But that's also why Massachusetts why it was so insidious for people to oppose this proposal because what they're basically saying is not only should these caregivers not be able to have more than one patient but if they do then we should target. Task Force. This person, the president of this patient's association said quote. is also extremely inadvisable without a task force controlled by the state, and. That, of course was proposed by the. By the Commonwealth Dispensary Association, the dispensaries last year and Anti Cannabis Representative Hannah Cane. So it just shows the mentality. These people have is not lower barriers to entry and increase patient access. It's protect our prophets by ensuring there's less competition and what's really insidious and disgusting, and this is the last thing I'm going to say about this because I get so worked up about it is that the only reason to oppose the expansion of the caregiver proposal other than it not being good enough which I respect but I respectfully disagree with the only reason to oppose it is because it will allow people to obtain medical cannabis at cost in a more E in an easier way than they can now, and that means that less people even though they can't afford the medication will be forced to go to brick and mortar dispensaries and that to me is to other black market or to make when you when you appointing seriously public policy just because a prophet. That's disgusting. Let's talk about mobile shit to that was said This is going to send people to get rob she said. We're getting robbed right out dispensaries reasonable odd number two. This is gonNA bring the Federal Government Bunch of S. This will protect people from the federal government. How many stories have I written over the last couple of years where someone has been up a state or federal charges for a similar amount of plants? In the FBI did nothing for them and I wrote about it wrote about it wrote about it. In why were they busted because the law is hazy on this and what always happens in the end is that the charges get dismissed especially if they're state. If you federal and yet huge numbers you may go to jail federal is different but the feds are not going after caregivers for thirty plants or what? What was the number twenty four plants as total twelve seedlings and well so that it's actually good that you asked my because there's two different elements of the proposal and you're. Right. So but because of the licensing, it doesn't matter what the numbers are small enough in the licensing and law is gonNA protect because the feds always say one thing if you following the state law, we're not gonNA mess with you. So, this gives most growers away to follow the state law an APP who. Gives them federal protection. So it's an actual lie when the coal saying what? She is a liar that is a lot as outright frigging lot and anyone who has been arrested or jail. You should be very upset angry that this person is lying right now. Yet no, it's the the thing that worries me at that. If the ambiguity under the current law that put patients that puts patients at risk patients right now can grow. What's needed to sustain their sixty day supply but that's resulted in patients. For example, with one hundred clones dotting been a rooted ramp being arrested it's. Too is they win the case like you have to wait two three years and if they're dumb dumb and they take a plea, then they're screwed because that's what they wait for the prosecutor in the cops will arrest you and say we don't care about the law. And they'll just keep bringing you like I. If it was me, I would get frustrated 'cause I would not want to go to court every two months. And then get sent home again with no resolution and that's what they do. They hold you hostage for like two to three years it until you finally either give up inside a plea deal and go to a lesser charge or they finally give up and that's what happens eventually is found you give up because basically with the law that was passed in two, thousand, eight, two, thousand, twelve, two, thousand, sixteen by initiative judges don't want to prosecute. They don't WanNa see these cases, the judges like even if technically they're illegal. People don't like people voted not to arrest people anymore I know this I saw the ballot initiatives judges get that. So unless you're some kind of kingpin looking at, you know hundreds and hundreds of plants on federal charges, you're not going to get convicted anymore Massachusetts for the most part I. Mean I'm sure there's instances but the people I talked to you know I cover them for a year or two in eventually that's exactly what happens. It gets dismiss the process with the the current ambiguity. To one rule and the lack of any clarity as to what sixty days apply means that even though it won't it result in convictions leads to people being targeted and. If the cops have something that's very black and white for them. Then they're gonNA follow it. That's the cops don't understand the sixty days they're like. About what do we know about an? Let's not talk about something else grant because if the ranks get into, this is what someone else you know. Dan. Show someone who was talking about today. They're worried that will change the sixty days will that is in the law, right? That's in the law. The Disney A. Sixty Day is in the law. So the rags for the caregivers are just what the caregivers are going to be licensed by met but there's some new Ontario gets caught with the sixty days. If someone is still because that's in the law to have to change ally my right on that and they know there's nuance to this and I know we have other topics so I don't want to Belabor it isn't the law sounds like days. I know I'm better there's nuance to it because this proposal would create a holiday ship grows as well. So right now patients can grow the sixty day but with no defined women so patients, for example, there was a patient three months ago who growing sixty two plants his doctor said, he could be growing sixty two plants because that's what he needed. They arrested him anyway. So the way the commission proposing to fix this is to make it so that if you are medical patient without a hardship grow, you can have twelve. Plants and twelve flowering plants and unlimited clones, which is more than an adult. Great. But the officers of legal protection from harass ripe for from the court. But you still have the sixty days I was going to get there go. If. You. Get a hardship grow. Your doctor can then say your sixty day supply equals this many plants and you're protected for up to that many plants and can't be arrested Basset I wanted to. So you're still protect. That's what I'm trying to say like the sixty day doesn't go away. Just a sixty day. Generally doesn't protect you against arrest. It protects you against getting a conviction usually. So the sixty days still there, I want. This. Is What we have to clear up grant for people. We have guest here too because we want to talk about other things I think we got through the FDA gear. Anyone else want to say anything about this Dan Scotland Yeah Yeah I. Mean what I find. So like horrible and insidious bet like again, we're being price couched in the state. You know we we have zero leverage like these. The spent because we have nowhere else to go unless you know someone the grows are can grow ourselves and and with the makeup of the Commission of the cannabis. Control Commission besides Shalini Died Commissioner title were hanging by a thread with these reforms. Were I mean I was astounded when when when this Scott proposed and I didn't and I'm GonNa like doubting Thomas from the Bible I have to see the caregivers comeback to really believe that they're going to come back but it's like the and you have the MPAA testifying and they have and they're they're an organization so these. Regulators are going to give their opinion a bit more weight, and then purposely sabotaging this is just so horrible and I wouldn't like if we if Massachusetts is more of a regular dispensary model like let's see Arizona where it's just big cannabis and it isn't caregivers I wouldn't mind that because they keep the prices low. But here in this state, the prices have been hide these dispensaries of being complacent and I'll sometimes get emails saying if I spent one hundred and fifty dollars, I got a free pre roll that's such a slap in the face. So again, I mean, we really need the caregivers have more variety and more choice. Absence of a competent, dispensary model. It seems like since Kobe Dante to Massachusetts. With more medical this country supposedly opened the prices have gone out. Yeah. I mean that's crazy about that. We should at this point having a medical program this long and that that is the number one issue for patients you know it's funny we played the Nicole Snow. She talks about Harm patients on some other really important issues I care about. But suddenly when it competes with the dispensary, she doesn't care about those stations anymore and our biggest issue isn't even tell I mean I have telemedicine twenty, four, seven. I'm a patient by issue scheduling super-busy I rent a couple of businesses I have no help I have to do everything myself customer calls I, WanNa, go help them I don't WanNa, go to a doctor's appointment saying. So I WANNA go on my schedule a targeted with the medical doctors a massive I, want telehealth I want all these things she's pushing for but by far the number one issue for medical patients is the cost of the medicine. and. They don't care. It's not what what did she say it was not important anymore it was not It's obsolete caregivers. It's obsolete. The reason for caregivers obsolete note, the reason is not obsolete because the price is still high. Like the reason, we want caregivers we want better quality better selection. These are the things that Michael though the King of Pod, your friend talked about in two, thousand, twelve and thirteen when you were hanging around with them pretended to be his best friend. We were talking about the quality of the caregivers we were talking about the price. We're talk about the selection, this service, the people, the the family relationship knowing who who's growing at where it's being grown. The amount of see words being wrote being able to know the person rowing. We don't get that at dispensaries we we find out there's bad things in them when the CCC goes after them and finds them after the fact, that's how we find out and we often find out the dispensary lied to the CCC. The CCC just gives him a fine which is the cost to doing business, and they just keep going more licenses the next month I mean this is what's going on in Massachusetts right now. So I'm frustrated and I WANNA see caregivers and I know we spent a lot of time on this but I know people watching I see a lot of listeners. This is an important subject. Not. The CCC is saying that they're looking for low cost of entry. License right. So to me, it seems like they could fix this program, alter it in a way where it would be a low cost of entry so it could solve. Two things at the same time, right? It's just a thought that why don't they attack that in a way where there is some profit in it? In you can kind of build your way out of their is a proposal to do that. You know interestingly enough maybe not in this regulatory around, but basically allow them to charge per time, but at a set rate so you can charge for twenty hours a week at fifteen dollars an hour. However, you can't charge anyone patient more than X. for your time and That's the kind of. Thing where what I try to tell caregivers is the CCC wants to help this model because it's done for the betterment of the patients. But at the same time, they don't want to drive these caregivers into financial ruin and make them operate at a net loss. They were doing this pro bono. So striking that balance with insights like yours is crucial and I just wanted to thank you for that. Now, Coke Janette I was GonNa say this is a great entree into the industry, and if you can set this up and get mean these caregivers have been cultivating forever may not have but a lot of people have you know and there needs to be a an easy way for making that legal and this provides an opportunity to be regulated to be overseen and to find a profitable model, and then if you want to expand into a dispensary great But I see that I think genetics Excellent. Excellent. And my thought re restrict the profits right. But allow it to be something. You can build your way out of and therefore becomes your low cost of entry. You can't. You can't disabled doesn't delivery in order to make it your low cost of entry but I I don't see why they don't look in a different place. Another option to to be able to. We're at other places is sometimes they can sell their overages to dispensaries. So. They grow certain amount. They don't sell it. They don't. Have enough patients sort of. Demand for it can always sell it to a dispensary that's not in there yet. But these are things that we could definitely once we have a program established, we just gotTa get this established. and. To, be honest as up to I, this is an opportunity that comes like once every seven years. Like this this isn't GonNa like this past this time and it's not good this time. I I don't know if it will come back next time because we don't even know what the candidates control commission is going to be like. Too much from now, three months from now. So like this is it has passed people need to go all in on it. We should move on some other subject this Bass Massachusetts Cannabis Control Commission had a a big here yesterday, and there were a lot of subjects being talked about. Delivery obviously being one of them out we have some delivery experts. There's also advertising is an issue I think those also initial sampling is also issues that weren't even discussed. The regulations are coming up like Ed Desouza and others waiting over a thousand days for the license I mean. When you? Is there any other business Massachusetts that you have to wait and you're still consider a small player you're going from micro with the call micro grow license and takes you over a thousand days for the moment that you start the licensing process. To the AD and you're still fully licensed you're still waiting you're still waiting for that final final approval. So you could open I mean to me that just disgusting. But I know a lot of guests have different things. They want WanNa talk about. So look why don't we start with the WHO spoken probably the least on the show, which is not grant myself WanNa go first raise your hand I. Guess. Nobody quite pick one Dansk all and go ahead. So I would say that that And I've been looking into this since January I I I mean, it's going to sound like I'm wearing a tin foil, happen I January a my pockets I looked at every single dispensary spent about two hours of my time. I went on the website I, compare the prices across all of them and without fail the are charging between fifteen to twenty dollars a gram, and it almost feels like there's a gentleman or gentle person's agreement. To to keep the prices at a certain rate or to not undercut each other besides road actors like mayflower medicinal 's and I asked the CCC. The possibly look that and I mean I dunno, it just does not make sense like to have a program. That's how the dispensaries for five years and to seize like the next to no price decreases. It's almost like it's coordinated prime alleging that no, you're legend baby possibly price-fixing in. It's a good question to ask because I've looked at the price is well. I found the same thing in what I would end up to his drive a ranch to find the best deal, which is you know drive a long way the special the moment the special would only be temporary like be while at a special deal that was here for July gone in August I mean that's just the way it works around here the price is right back where it was. I mean that that is a reality. Definitely. I think that more has to do with. I mean, you can say collusion to a certain extent but I really think is just there's not enough players in the market yet. They don't have to go down right now at the prices that they're at, they're making plenty of money they have plenty of business. Go down for what reason like there's just no reason. Once you have more players in the market and especially for retail delivery entering from one side, you have additional retailers entering from another. Your addressable market is going to continue to diminish. Then you will see prices start to move. You know is just that this market has been so Sollozzo to build that they've been able to have price installation. So. Think of the wreck side to you're you're getting a lot of tourists. The Guy I feel like you don't want a medical side. Obviously they're serving Massachusetts patients but I think a lot of the wreck stores depending on where they are. But the ones. There are certain wreck stores the they're serving people from New York and New Hampshire and Vermont Vermont that don't have any access in they're willing to drive two hours to you know because when you don't have a can act. You'll. You'll go drive anywhere pay anything to get it and I think that's you know when They only have so much product to sell. There's that much being grown here. Sell the top dollar to those tourists and not worry about folks like be who were driving to Maine for it. Maybe, you barely sell ounces you wanNA sell everything niece. or grabs now noticing I mean. They're they're gouging on the Graham now and they don't even offer like you said, announces half the time headquarters. It's like. Well, we might have a couple of quarters like, okay that's that's a big by I. got a chance to buy a quarter ounce. Wow. And I think another dynamic like to add onto what Mike was saying is. In New, York whole flower in their medical program is not legal so they can only really get it from their streak connect or they have to come to Massachusetts and Vermont and New Hampshire they have tethering in their medical marijuana programs so you can only assign one dispensary it. You can only go to that one dispense you so I'm sure like my saying you have people from all over the northeastern even the eastern seaboard coming to our dispensaries. Anyone. Else. All right. Let's talk about delivery because that's that's the big I mean this was like. All about caregivers and delivery who wants to go for on the delivery debate. I WANNA. Make sure that we mentioned to midnight mass dot sub stacked dot com to good stories on there. that. You probably going to hear US mention. We're talking about issues that came up. From those stories today bid. I-. Mass, Dot. Com are two recent stories one I wrote about Reveille Shark Lakes the me too story. And then one that grant rope just on what happened yesterday, which was the CCC went through the Regulations The review of their new proposed regulations, the draft and I took testimony yesterday ended that. One of the big subjects who's delivering. So what let's talk about delivery right now but if you wanna you, WanNa know more information for the audience midnight mass dots up stacked dot com check those stories out. Can I say something quickly before I tossed to now because I actually wanted to thank her and her husband Aaron along with Moore's Party and Chris Verve Ray, and Devon Alexander and so many others they've been working on both with 'em cab the. Massachusetts Cannabis Association for delivery along with a bunch of other groups to really ask the CCC to expand the current adult use delivery format right now that format is in journals words worse than Uber Eats, which is to say that it's basically a glorified courier where companies have to own fleet of cars and deliver product from existing brick and mortar stores to consumers and tried to subsist off the fee the delivery fee. What's so fascinating and why and thanking Jon Allen All of those who did that work at their economic analysis showed that even charging forty dollars per delivery based on the number of deliveries that could be done per day because all the product has to go back to the dispensaries in a single day by the way that even at forty dollars delivery, these companies would operate a net loss per month so now and this. Excellent Group has been forcing the CCC to grapple with the fact now without the ability to purchase product at wholesale from cultivators and manufacturers and store that product in a warehouse, the licensed type will fail and the equity that it represents through its existing priority period for ease and se seeking delivery license will be rendered. Moot. So now please can you tell us more and thank you again for letting me give you that introduction. Thinking grants. Yeah I think that for delivery. We expected that it will come out being a normal business like a regular licensed Tom. There was no reason for that. They will pull wholesale. Being able to purchase wholesale it was totally a shock to me when I heard that they expected you to be able to purchase retail at the prices that retailer at and still make a profit because people are already complaining what they're paying when they go to a recent retail establishment. So now on top of twenty percent taxes in the high cost were now going to say. Pay us a delivery fee to. On every order. Okay. It just does it. It's not gonNA. Last, there's no way that everybody's going to be able to hold onto that delivery I. so that's the first problem. Right the the the plan is made above you needed delivery and second you need the retailers to give you. A commission off of retail. That makes sense. You know the delivery fee it's going to be a fight to zero how quickly that will happen. In. Honestly can happen out of the gate else right somebody designing that they get a better deal with the retailer because that could happen and they come out with a lower delivery fee or they want to corner the market Amazon. Can. I mean that that's basically number one. What was the retail model I don't even know if you can call them. Kale. Who would want to like I said this from the very beginning I. I said this is not gonNa work. Now I've been in these businesses like you cannot deliver it all across the state forty fifty bucks and especially like you said This is not gonNA kick back like all those delivery companies that are out there like dining dash. They got kickback a huge kickback from the restaurants, the restaurants. And that that is that that whole industry is under so much scrutiny because of how it is like the door dashes all those to the restaurants this would be the opposite thought you guys would have it just would not work. We know retail only model right now if you wholesale. You can say that that will strengthen the retail model little because retails will now no, yes someone is going to be delivering. We don't control who's living because essentially they can say forget this we're not having deliveries during the next two three years to figure out the program failed and we get to do it ourselves because they will figure out the program failed, right It's not there's there's no you're not going to have these tons of successful people in that retail model in the wholesale model you now are able to force retail a little right to say, okay this is going to be happening I. Now have a war from two fronts. I need to do something. So they will I think especially, the vertically integrated ones will come out of the closet now with some percentage. That doesn't mean that everybody can do it. Every everyone's not in the same position but I think having wholesale at least gives you that advantage that there are some pressure on them. There's no pressure on them in the car retail model. On top of it, I know that the big argument was that they wanted to give a low barrier of entry license. And I understand that I get. Good intent in it but. All it's proven to do is be another roadblock because if the way that you give. You may delivery less expensive is to take away wholesale. You might as well not have delivery your takeaway wholesale and you're, and you're attaching at the same time to the hip of the retailer. Nothing about that make sense right. So to me, the lower cost of entry has to be found either somewhere else or you just have to talk about funding and stop not thinking about that people need to have funding. If you're trying to gain equity in this market, because into expensive markets again, you can't destroy the license though in order to say is a low barrier of entry yet you're not willing. To get rid of the second driver, you're not willing to get rid of cameras, right? So you're not willing to get rid of the storage time that we have to keep goals these things you're not willing to not let have a building we have we can't store cars in our driveway ray. So all these things are things that you're saying for public health and public safety, we have to increase the cost. Why don't they do an armored car to a guy with a gun I mean. Why not just bake delivery costs five thousand dollars in will be good with it I'll. Say That we could deliver one thing at a time and come back to the store every time I know some people are joining that. Just, it's not it's not viable talk about wholesale. Hopefully, we'll just. That's what I want to talk about wholesale. So if wholesale. If, they add wholesale to it. I look at that as good and bad. Because you had wholesale now you're looking at a location. Are they gonNA add a host community agreement to that? You had to have it anyway we have to have a host community together delivery we had to have a building. So now my building has to have another room in it that had secure. So you already have once is basically answered. You don't need another one. You don't need another building. Now you need another age I mean, you're FCA. Your delivery you'd you'd have to have delivery on your, but you're still going to need an EPA. They weren't saying that we could drive the cars from our houses. So we have had to have a building figures. You're already good on that. Yes it gets a little bit bigger because now you have to have somewhere, we can package if you're going to take from wholesalers where you need to package or Andrew going to have someplace where you can store securely your cannabis which you didn't have to have before but. I don't know that that's a big enough cost to say it's worth having no prophet in the business. I'm wondering if that could be set up to wear where. It's almost like a u-haul like storage space where someone. has a secure location where they rented to five or six dollars. That was a suggestion on the wasn't actually our suggestion someone also is doing delivery wanted to do Co. wanted to locate and I think that's another thing that can help to lower the cost that you have because the only concern was, how would they then separated their cannabis but if you have a secure room, you can easily put cages in that room. Friendly. Whatever would be that would be secure for that's your inventory. No one else can touch. Then you split on the rest of the cost because if you are going to be a retail deliverer, you're still going to need to cut costs like there's just not allowed of meat on that bone. Building on that I mean if there's already not profitable model and it's only exclusive for two years. So why even really trying to you know I mean that's I mean, and then you've already Donald Hda scowling and then others can come into the market. So I really do think it should be at least three four. Five, can I asked her now a question canal one of your big asks was not only the wholesale warehousing but also to expand the current two year equity Ian NFC priority period longer can you tell us how long you're asking for and why you're asking for it to be expanded? One of the reasons just like Marion was just saying we. First of all, how long has it taken to get licenses? That's not a quick process in even if they're going to speed it up or delivery. Is Not going to be that fast right, and we're going to start the clock from the day that the first one obits. So or I don't know his granted the license or opens but regardless. and. Months after that is when they're going to evaluate whether they're going to extend it or not. My guess would be yes it would be extended because they won't have reached enough people. So then you get three years, but you still have to think first of all will anyone has been able to get in. We'll enough people have been able to get in and that time secondly, no business can be if you just take the irregular businesses knock cannabis right now no businesses evaluated in two years you are gonNA. Break even in three to five. Now, going to evaluate us in two years you're not even giving the cannabis control commission's not even giving themselves enough time to really evaluate and people that are going to be evaluating anyway. How many are going to get in then you have to think. Forces in the market you WANNA. Give a little bit of time for things to come about people that me lease cars to drivers. Collate Co located locations somebody has to still open up and get co located location and then offer it to other people. That's all going to take time. How are they doing this in two years? Three years we would love to ask for five because that's probably the time it's GonNa take. We just think that. Will what what the commission was telling us is that two years they can push the legality of two years. They could probably do it for a little bit more than two years five years it sounds like they were. kind of pushing the edge. Say It really would take five years for them to really be able to see what's going on in this market in isn't actually working but. For, three years with at least one year extension because we wanted to be reasonable things we want to focus on asking where things we could get a yes. On because we need these yeses deliveries not okay right now. We also need yes. For the amount of towns are open, but we left that for the time being because it was a much bigger fight in I we to make it so that the things were asking for you have no argument. So give it to us. If you're acquiting. In, your mandates equity, there's no reason that you have taken wholesale away from us and I was not presented from any of the commissioners with a good reason other than lower cost injury and the fact that they had an issue with, would we be able to transfer stuff from wholesaler to the customer in way that they think is safe You're already have all your retail rules make us follow their. That increases the cost but that makes them comfortable and we want wholesale. So we will do what makes you comfortable giving us wholesale just like the caregiver thing we're asking for this much but we know we need more but you have to start somewhere because right now without wholesale you might as well, not good enough. The trend you got nothing it's just like what we have caregivers right now with Nicole snow has a caregiver, but I can't get one. Fair that's not fair. But. She says it's fair and that the need for caregivers is obsolete now. But. She hasn't caregiver but no one else can have a caregiver. It's time for equity. It's time for your vote to be put where your mouth is now. So we need we need this we need delivery services with wholesaling definitely. Caregivers. Dan Scholar Dance. Calling what's up? I'm. Like, I agree with everything that has been said thus far. But I'm like really like I want the delivery model to succeed I really really do I wanted to succeed so much that you know when the bigger companies come like years later or whenever the exclusivity period comes when the big multi-state company Stratacom they get ice out I want the local delivery companies to to to really be known into really thrive and like I think it's part and parcel with the other. What other people were testifying about with with regard, lifting the bans on advertising they asked me well known that there are delivered that there's a liberty in the there ee I'm people that are that that have been disproportionately affected by the war on drugs because again, like this is their seven million people in the state so it needs to be known so again, so the big key cannabis multi state folks can be iced out by the time. The two year period is not. Agreeing, with everything that has been said. Thank you Dan Scotland. He's the host of the I M Cannabis Sativa podcast. Check him out on twitter to your on your madman on twitter. Money's Mike Crawford. I'm hosting of Grant Smith here we have Dr Marion mcnabb she's with the candidates center of excellence and we have Janelle. I'm GonNa say her name again. Shows Eight for going going. GOING GOING OWENS WITH G go. Just go in. Galway. All. going. Oh. There other isn't ask going. Yeah. Pronounce. So many ways going as. It's Your close. Close. And we have we have a great show today. Obviously, we're talking about the candidates Control Commission, the regulations that just went through that are being proposed. There was a public testimony yesterday with a bunch of speakers they took one hundred names. And all three of you three out of the five bus were testified yesterday at that What are the other things that we want to talk about related to the regulations like because there's a lot of things that are proposed even even things that are proposed that people Wanna change what do you want to highlight? What are some of the other things besides the delivery of the caregiver said we talked about so far? I'll pop up in here So I talked about those yesterday, the caregiver, and that's liberty licenses, but also really kind of looking at the economic empowerment in the social equity, program in general and July brought up funding and loans, and you know where, where are not and I suggested that the commission you know there's a lot of concerns from e applicants in se Africans to you know asset really have a thoughtful meaningful. Time to sit with those applicants to hear these Burnham's lots of programs are being proposed to help it But definitely as a former social equity training Bender I feel like CCC needs to dedicate. Funds Resources to that program and also really pay attention to these applicants and fast forward a lot of those applicants And I also recommended that the original way that the Commission takes the twenty nine cities. Disproportionate impact fundamentally disagreed with personally and testified around for quite a while and spend a lot of testimony around that. So they missed out on a lot of cities that are disproportionately impacted and I think they need to really expand that You know considering the H C a model where you don't have to have a location like well is implemented in Maynard. I'm adopting some models like that I think would be important on the other pieces that I brought up where specifically close to my heart, which were the research license category to be honest I was kind of I was kind of happy to see finally some some work around the. And to see that there are permits that will be allowed. But one of the concerns that I had was a cannabis research facility while can be an academic institution or nonprofit or an themselves at to be co located with an MTC co owned, and so that kind of boxes out a few players too. So I had a little bit concerns on that And then I, also, again as a as a cannabis researcher, it's very, very difficult to find funding. For Research we've got to be creative over the last couple of years. So I think the commission in addition to sporting social equity should really look into squirting in cannabis, research, flou- other states, California Colorado have done this and that they should probably consider some of that. So those are some of my additional comments yesterday. I think that would make sense. We could be that. We have MIT with Harvard. Why don't we doing cannabis research could be like the center of it. So the whole world in get a big economy on week, we put money into all kinds of other signs in Massachusetts Governor Deval Patrick was all about the biotech in the farmer and this this and that is. Why we put money at a cannabis research. And UMASS WITH MY Program right the they put him on a lot of money into research. Why are they doing it for cannabis? It would make so much sense the hot sector to put. Under is just you know having that research cornered in the market I you know large companies just Kinda like cannabis side. Do you never? I mean. So like our local industry as long as there is you know intent for public good and you know driving medicine driving formulations and then giving back same time I think that's a key for. Me To not lock into the research market only to those that are also fairly wealthy, but from another industry But yeah, I think it makes a lot of sense of advocated for this. You know since then disappearing since it was legalized, I don't use them in Massachusetts. I am I think it would be really important and I think we deserve it. As country I think researchers have been prohibited from studying this You're only allowed to use night approved. You Know Cannabis Mississippi and clinical trials and you now. I think it's an error that needs to change now. Their candidates isn't really known to be the best of the. I remember we talked to. Some some patients that got it Ervin. My God am l. v.. They get the seeds in. Your up. Sauce. Again. It's awful right so Sicily. So she divers. She's amazing. She spoke at an event that we hosted last last year was Stephen Venturing Kyle really incredible woman says she's the first research actually approved by night at a study at an approved by federal government study Utsa in cannabis and better, and she had us night a canvas and it came by. Sticks and seeds and was just not representative at all and really she thinks and basically falsified her findings because it was not at all representative of what was available on the market apparently. Yeah. The Pre roll that crap like urban lv where patients they were like though the first legal patient's medical patients in the country in in the federal government grows. Its two locations, right? One Mississippi. But they grow this cannabis. And they would mail it to the few legal patients they allowed. The lawsuit against the federal government I believe it was. But they would get the joints in there will be role the seeds and stems, and so they were break everything out, get all the features stems out of it and then rewrote them up. Like. That's the federal government for you could just say. Set Him a bag of the role at themselves. But getting off that subject I, want to get back to one of the things you said, Dr. McNab Dr Marion mcnabb, you mentioned disproportionately harmed communities have kind of been left out on what the state defines as as a harm community I noticed that too a lot of people noticed it. What what are some of the cities and towns you know off the top of your head sit like certain cities towns that were left off that should have definitely been included. Rents Lawrence Large was included. Lawrence was not included. That is just so ridiculous that is like David. Was Lawrence? On cops. That should be the status. How many tiles your city town on cops if you're on like more than five times like Lenin Arts were you actually be Mariah mean. and. Yeah I don't think proximus. Ambrose's zero I think Brockton. Yeah. Aren't Stephanie was not Lawrence is actually the first city that I fight in Massachusetts to support adult scandalous in the sport equity and the researcher that was selected to identify those twenty nine cities used the metric that I feel was fundamentally flawed and basically the way that he calculated you know the cities and their impacts he didn't include some key indicators and there and half of you know some of the some of the samples healing at half of the city's in. Massachusetts. That was used and it's just a flawed a flawed. Model in my opinion. So I, hope that I've heard that the commission I think maybe reviewing to. Realign to make sure that as a little bit and I hope they do Recommendations. I had a colleague who got a PhD on the subjects we worked with me on this and it was really well trained is really well trained. So anyway, I think that they definitely should adopt you know reconsider expanding that less Yeah and you know also really think that One of the things that I think was contentious recently on I applaud Commissioner Title I. Love You measure you're the best. Support you wholeheartedly but the USA fines fines recently to be able to fund social equity economic apartment. That's an brainard. Mean you know already the commission commissioners receiving a lot of money You know that was what? How much six, hundred, thousand dollars. Hundred thousand. Eight hundred thousand like that's not a small chunk of change and people could really use that and if the commission can issue grants or loans or whatever because a legislative stopper you know there's Find another solution, find a partner find somebody outside the commission. Don't make you do something but like that's a lot of money that then is back into the commission to hire more staff, we'll likely stack you know I mean, hire hire people that are working on that program or create and use that money for the actual businesses. Give it suited such equity applicants, Yakim harmony gets their budget donations to I think. Fitting in escrow and the Social Equity Program budget has not gone up in three years. We just had Shaquille. Scott. An excellent interview on the young Turks that can be found in our guy and on our podcast platform spotify anchor Breaker Stitcher, and otherwise ray she talks about how that budget did not go up permits base three, hundred, thousand three years ago until now and those marked that. Money from fines and bike. You're saying the PE- donations in escrow already could change that and I want to ask one more question There's another proposal brought up at the regulatory hearing about the D- verticalisation of the medical cannabis market and I, noticed something there is nothing about equity in that proposal and dating back to twenty twelve there has never once been social equity or Economic Empowerment Program For Medical License Ownership, do you all I wanted to ask the panelists and even you might do I think it's time that the CCC only issue new medical licenses for a period of three to five years the SEC's ease only. Yes. It was too expensive. That's what I think you have like didn't you have season five, hundred, thousand dollars in your bank account. Sitting in the back and it came out because you're worried that the federal government sees it or the or beggar timing closed it because they were afraid. Then, you'd get trouble if you report it. No intention of this very link at it's answer the question though yes do support. By support their. Medical. Licenses. diverticulitis Oh if that capital requirements gone. Support a three to five year period when new medical licenses would only go to ease. Essy's definitely as long as they're after understand that you have to have some kind of funding component otherwise that that time here you'll get nothing ended anyway, right. So then that's that's where the problem is. You'RE GONNA need funded, but I would definitely agree with that just like I would agree with the towns having to go back in and say we issued only to two licenses but they were all to non e. participants and we need to go back in one on one to one open two more licenses to be fair. Yeah I'm not even have to do one to one. They could be bold by Cambridge and go unlimited only is no one else get sued by medical dispensary win in court and then rub it in the medical dispensaries face. But I'm saying this house over any close themselves grant. So you already given out there to licenses well. You know you'll like to know. Medical. If it does get the verticalised with an equity priority period cannot be banned. Yes I now. I also support I definitely support I'm having a you know social equity, our economic apartment program within the medical program I talked about that yesterday I think one of the biggest challenges is at the town level. I mean these are state programs right and just what you were saying at the local level I, think a lot of municipalities don't even know what the Social Equity Program is or than even exist in unless there's a loud voice there and sang that this is the program you need to pay attention to it I I. Don't think they are aware So you now having a either requirement at at the municipal level or. Implementing innovative you know get NHCD without location approach or other ways But yeah, I mean I think you know we've seen time and time again colleagues Social Equity Program you know they are gone up to at a city council and They're they're beat out I somebody with more money you know. And Nate and that that. City Council or is not held accountable because. It's a state. So I. think that's a really big challenge for that program. And Dan Scotland. Yeah Yeah. I totally I totally agree that that e should have they should be able to make inroads medically so they can sell. I miss vendors like like a my I miss vendors like northerner by I know there are deep cod or whatever. Yeah, I miss. I. Miss Having I. Miss Seeing a variety of different people at. That are both the vendors with the sellers distributors Again I had people different backgrounds when I utilize services like that, and I would like to see the state invest in in cities and towns disproportionally affected by the war on drugs and to have them be able to have the drug war victims be able to have leeway to be able to do it. So I totally agree awesome. I want to ask him that everyone another question here. Midnight Mass we put a couple of stories out grant story on a review of what happened went down at the campus control. Commission. Public. Comment period yesterday the story before that was a be two story about the Massachusetts Cannabis Industry. I'm wondering if you all right and what do you think about it and what do you think about the comment that I got from a Keith Cooper who is a CEO? Out Revolutionary Clinics who seem to call it misinformation which to me is strange 'cause I was quoting was his former CFO. Court document. A a couple of employees I mean, that was I was just quoting people and he's telling these calling misinformation. What did you think about the story if you saw it in? which your feedback on what percent about it apparently. Buddy wants to go. So I saw the story. You know and have known You know a few people that a portrait clinics and that you know have had. Some. Challenges. You know working there to stay I guess to be polite challenges You know I think it's You know I've heard a lot of stories and I remember that time at you know Radna. Time that happened I don't think any kind of behavior sexual harassment or abuse against women as acceptable period. and a lot of people have come out and a lot of you know you've reported on it and I just don't think it's possible. I don't think that's acceptable workplace behavior and response to it. I think is you know not not. What I thought was interesting to key Cooper's. Email that he sent to apparently all of his employees CFO didn't respond to US did respond to the press. Had didn't really seem to respond to the victim when it happened if their the alleged victim, let's put it that way because I just WanNa make it clear the story I. I really didn't pick sides. I just printed the complaint from the women. That she filed. Sheep violent official complaint with Massachusetts, Commission Against Discrimination I quoted or from that complaint. I quoted the CFO. who also who sent me messages? So I I caught a both sides I. Think I was very fair that I'm not GonNa make a determination on this. However, I have heard so many stories about problematic issues for employees at revolution clinics over and over and over and over I will say that. And their other complaints. I'll say complaint. Let's be clear. That we're going to be reporting on related to revolutionary. Clicks I will say that but he called misinformation it seemed like in that in that email and Just like what was misinformed yet you have an opportunity Keith Cooper we challenge you to come on the show answer questions you won't. I. We also quoted you in that story. And get Cooper said, he said something net to me doesn't seem very truthful when we actually asked him about this it's quoted I put it in the story. I'm just I'm Kinda like flag acidy put out the Shuji mail to all of his employees. But he also, he didn't mention the email they sent all his place the gentleman once he just basically made it sound like it was just some average employee. He wasn't average employee. He was your CFO. I thought that was strange. Anyone else want to comment on what is a CCC We're GONNA take this. It was on the agenda Yes he's. That's what we don't know. I have a feeling the CCC for my experience. I don't think they're going to act on a complaint like that. Maybe they will maybe they won't maybe low investigated, but they're not going act because there was a may they're going to have to look into it to an investigation I would think however I feel like they're more likely to act is. Like the Domestic Committee Commission Against Discrimination heard the complaint nothing happened the attorney with Jerusalem. He withdrew it because you're GONNA file a civil complaint now if the civil complaint ends up. Finding that revolutionary clinics was at fault. The Canvas Control Commission will definitely act at that point however. We find it interesting. You know all of a sudden the revolutionary clinics is up on the agenda for Thursday's CCC meeting some kind of action disciplinary action is GonNa. Be Taken about the Gets, revolution, clinics. We wrote the story about I have no idea if that's related, I have a feeling, it's not related, but it's very interesting and I don't think any of US know I haven't heard anyone given us any info on why that is even on the agenda. So it's it's news to US news. It's very interesting a very interested to see what happens up I. New Violation but likely unrelated I would. I would probably. About testing. Yeah and and based on the history with the last three violations which were healthy farms, which is now mission the botanist and garden remedies it tends to be about. Things where like there are concealed contaminant pass or Given misleading or ownership issues. Now, that's another one that could be could be an ownership issue because. There's a lot I left out of that story. You and more that we're looking at. So it could be an ownership issue that would be the most interesting to me. You know I'll kind of honestly I gotta be left letdown just another pesticide issue they lied about it. That will be let down because all like, wow, it just shows their dirty again but important. Hunting imprisonment actions is that you don't just get like unlimited enforcement actions Israeli give you an enforcement action and you're on probation and you do something again you're you're probably going to get a suspension it hasn't happened yet, but it lays the foundation so but the other thing is I think people are sending a common theme here. which is that it seems that these corporate guys whether it's the delivery policy, the caregiver policy, the research study policy. Oh, always try to find ways to undermine policies that kind of cut them out and try to insert themselves and this revolutionary clinics company Mike just because you asked about the story about this story spoke for itself. The M. Complaint the victim statements, the statements you've got. From the individual who was accused in the complaint but at the same time, this is the same company revolutionary clinics that's sued Cambridge because Cambridge created an e e only priority period for issuing adult use HCFA's that didn't include medical dispensary they actually sued the city and this is also the same company that was part of the D. A. When the Komo up Dispensary Association proposed that. Horrific Task Force Bill. So you see a pattern here every single time there's something that might threaten the prophets of these guys. They're right there exerting their influence on the local level, the state level, the regulatory rebel, and it takes a unified grassroots community to come together to come out and support to email the candidates control commission that Commission C. C., mass. Dot, com and say you support. Allowing wholesale and warehousing delivery and say you support an expanded delivery priority period for equity applicants and say you support ten caregivers per patient and say you support research licenses being decoupled because if you don't reach out and tell them that you can be damn sure those corporate guys will be in their inbox with their allied advocacy groups doing the same. That's right and you you have limited opportunity. Like this is an important time like this cannabis control commission wasn't always good. We don't know how long it's going to be collect. Open to these proposals like these are new things that they're doing. It took us a while to get them up to speed at a lot of people did a lot of work to get them like Grand, Journal and Dr McNab. Michael Malta was talking about in two thousand twelve. You can do it from like getting care givers? Don will make me cry honestly just for him. This. Is like his my best friend's unfinished legacy like he wanted to happen. So. This is like a once enough. And a decade opportunity, we need to take advantage of it. So please do contact them and you know another thing you can do to is support US midnight mass, Dot sub, stack, dot com. If you want to subscribe because, let me tell you all of their focus right now is on US believing. Between Neta treatment accessing and clinics. We've been investing to protect ourselves. Haven't we grant little bit. Regret. Doubt, he doesn't WanNa comment. But I'm wondering, should I read the email? Should I read does anyone me read the email or at least like the first paragraph? Cooper about us you WANNA hear. Have it right in front of me Xeni I what what about? The rest of the gas you WanNa hear. Yes. They shaken had it's getting late. Say like anyone like has to go the bathroom right now going Dinner Ouagadougou just let me know 'cause it's OK can up off. You don't have to listen to me read this email. All right. Think. Dear team. As some of you know a person from the young jerks posted a piece about US related to allegations of harassment discrimination in our workplace. Excited incident that was alleged to have occurred in April of two thousand eighteen as well as some comments from former employees who separated from the company earlier two thousand nineteen. So he calls his CFO former employees. I mean, that's pretty shady. Just. That's the first paragraph. And then He. The second paragraph because this goes on for four or five paragraphs probably six seven. He writes as difficult as it is to see misinformation topics of such importance. We purposely do not respond to these sorts of ballot. Of Social Media as it just generates want interest, it could negatively ramifications for the company well. You Fomc vote did respond. You also responded Cabrera when we put the camera in front of your face and you said the allegations actually, I'm not gonNA call you I WANNA make sure I call you directly. But you said something to the effect that you can't trust everything you read I read. Between the lines seems like you deny the allegations to. The gas lighting yeah. About how confused is maybe you know this is an internal statement and obviously you know Mr Cooper I know your social media team is GonNa, clip this and play it for you. You might even be listening right now I don't understand why you do this. It pointless to send out internal emails because your employees are just going to send them to us. Yeah. They're going to say everything you know. Revolution Clicks no chew 'em net New England treatment access I know more about you folks that you realize. If you've done it, I, know about it. Think about that. Think about that Mr Cooper? I what I wanted to say about that was that. Not, even to Mr Cooper directly but to all these companies. It scares me that instead of addressing the allegation, you address the reporting about the allegation because it makes it seem like you don't care about that victim, and if you don't care about the victim and the fact that they were brave enough to file that complaint and actually come forward it makes me wonder if maybe the victims word should carry more weight in my eyes. The if you're not honest about the fact that ownership and management or accused not just an employee. Like that's dishonest it would you continue to attack us whether it's to a podcast that you say disparaging things or you send email to your your employees to disparage us. Those achieved shots and those are being recorded. And we we get everything. So I mean, I'm wondering. You think we should post this whole thing later tonight, the whole letter I think we might. I think it warrants a piece about it. If you asked me. Yeah think we'll. We'll sit to legal review team. Are whether young. Jerks we've got some great guests theon Dr Marian mcnabb from the campus center. Excellent Dan. Scotland hosted the IM Cannabis Sativa podcasts. COUGHING WE HAVE JANELLE Wins going. Goings. Calcium here accompanying. The Emerald Journal, the Emerald Turtle I love that like it. And we have, of course, grits with from everything. We bid I may ask any jerks myself by Crawford are Veasley. They figured anyone no dance. Scotland. The host of the I am cannabis. Sativa podcast is also here might say his name twice at once when I do. I'm at school. Yeah. It's just I I am. I can be found anywhere. You find podcasts I'm also trying to carry on what Mike does Trying to make cannabis affordable accessible for regular folks and I've I've I've been emailing the CCC, they probably know by name by this point, but we gotta just keep doing that. But yeah, I found anywhere you find podcasts. spotify stitcher everywhere items. So I listen to you. Again I am podcast. So again I wanNA thank our guest anything else y'all WANNA leave us with. Consider the closing statement. Anything you want to talk about. Dr, McNab work on a lot of things with candidates center. Excellent you work with the University of Dartmouth's umass Dartmouth Zach. Yup, you must start. yeah we do I. Guess I'll say if anybody's interested or consumes cannabis. You might start at the end. The Kennedy Center backs on Cyber Kobe. Teen Chemistry Research, study going on right now. So we're trying to collect anonymous information to understand how Kobe nineteen is impacted cannabis use and be able to develop and share education. You know information about that, and then we also launched a at Troia Asia. And Stand Milton client resources. A of. Sustainability and CAPE WITH representative and not every its cannabis. As social responsibility and environmental responsibility studies relaunched that on Monday. So cannabis cultivator at five minutes anonymous. help us out will be using that information again to as we have been doing with C. Three are in the past trying to raise awareness and education and change policies so Awesome. Engine and Jon Allen Show you WANNA pursue a little plug for. Is this the right way now? Yes. Okay. He'll cover. Deliver license go ahead you come the ADS Mascot Dot Org. Trying to. Basically trying to start a Trade Organization for delivery. So. Check. US out sign up. Members free. What's what's the website I've been on their petition to right right and that can be found a mask mass can cad dot org. As with. Mash Cad. Orgy. Yes. Perfect. Mass CAD CAD so mass. A DOT Org. Faded, sign the petition. Three hundred now. Good support for. People have signed that. You definitely go on there right now and sign up for her. For the Organization for delivery. And oriented where's the link again? Mass Cad. Yes. Like M., A. S. S.. Cad Cad? The. The level edgy up mass mass cat she. Mass VIP. Dot Org. Okay Get Co.. Founded. Cool. We got one more signature for you. Perfect. Thank you. And you haven't kill you. If you are interested we covered so many important topics today about the CCC's regulatory revision. If you are interested in supporting ten patients per caregiver grow and five hundred square feet of canopy if you're interested in supporting journal and others with their expanded delivery to include wholesale and warehousing, you're interested in supporting Dr Mc now, proposals about research licenses being decoupled from MTC ownership you have until August fourteenth at five pm to Email Commission CCC Mass Dot Com and tell. Them why you support those proposals if you don't do that the corporate guys will send their people into the e mail and we will not get these proposals passed. So please we as Mike. said, this is a once every seven year opportunity if that the the stars have come together as if a conflagration waiting to swallow whole the Republican grassroots uprising don't lose this chance. Please email the CCC pre support at the grassroots cannabis community and thank you for the chance to be on tonight Mike. Thank you and a dense goal and you're gonNA last words for us. yeah. I might just will on I wanNA thank you very much Mike for having me on It really made this two year anniversary of my podcasts special to be on a panel for the first time I really really reshaped it I I want to continue to make cannabis accessible for for the average person such as Knowing, knowing which resources to go to knowing if there are knowing how to. Qualify for financial hardship. Any anything like that and I follow policy canvas policy from all over the United States in world and try to tie back to our our struggle because. If you really think about it. There are in a lot of areas and a lot of you know you only have Canada and twelve US states in South Africa and I think the Australian Capital Territory. So we're in a very small company. We can really afford a learn from each other and make sort of global grassroots. And again I can be. Found anywhere. You find podcasts such as I tunes, stitcher through Google play cast box spotify. And as well as iheartradio. Thank you. Awesome thank you Dan Scott I wanNA thank again. Janelle goings for being on the show Dan Scotland hosted the IM Cannabis Sativa podcast Dr Mary mcnabb and Grant Smith for being here as well. Bail meow on the The screw up that started the show. But we go we had a great show pens, bailed us out. made it. Sound good. I get I want to thank all of our listeners. We had quite a few of them tonight. Thank you so much for listening. Thank you for the comments and we'll talk to you real soon, Mike Crawford checking out. One thing if you want to help us a couple of things actually signed the petition that we just talked about. Mass Cad Dot Org sign that petition number to email the canvas control commission. What's the email again grant mission at C. Mass Dot Com said again, Commission commit out CCC DOT COM. So you they go mission at C. C. Dot Bat. No say it again. Commission at PCC Mass Dot Com Okay Commission at CCC ASKS DOT Com. got that. So e mail them tell them what you like on the new regulations. In the filed thing you gotta subscribe to us if you're not midnight mass up stacked dot com grant put a lot of time in those stories. We want. You like them, share them send up to your friends. If you can join the premium subscribe I WanNa thank Dr McNab She signed up I o u t shirts I never got those shirts you. I really all I you still the same address that you said the email. Okay. I owe you. I gotTa send you some teachers. So system for sale. Yeah we can hook you up. Yeah. Semi Message. All right. If someone I mean we don't have them like on the website or anything because we will have a few laughs. But if someone wants to purchase them, they could have yet. Definitely. That's the mid I messed up stack dot com you really want to support US subscribe on our website is a way you can become a premium subscribers little five dollars a month. The Young. Jerks sponsored by UFC w fourteen, forty, five, a labor union representing cannabis employees in Massachusetts if you were a cannabis employees worried about your health and safety. And are not being heard at work you F C W local fourteen forty, five dot org or call them at one, eight, hundred, four, three, nine, one, four, four, five.