Making a Documentary Series in China with Dominic Johnson-Hill
Microphone. Check one two, three cities city siblings, civilins levels. Check good. Sounds good. One two, three rolling and. China's moving on is progressing. And of course, it is a shame, but a lot of these old traditions and cubs, you will be lost. And, and I really did feel that, that we were documenting the last of a lot of things. You know, one thing I've lent. It businesses the importance of finding your niche and finding something you're truly passionate about, and being able to, to sell a story, and I think there's a lot of stories that I know in, in Beijing in China through the fortunate being hidden so long that I would love to tell Hello and welcome to the documentary life, a show that sets out to inspire, and inform you on how to best live and leave your own documentary life. I am your host Christine parkers, and this is episode number one hundred and six and it is brought to you by barong films. Proud creators of documentary film the documentary life podcast. And now, the independent filmmakers, essential checklist course our free, eight part course, designed to help you chief financial stability gained support and effectively distribute your documentary film. Before we get into today's show. I just wanted to let you know that the podcast will be going to a BI weekly release, or as they say, in the UK once a fortnight. So the next time you'll hear from us, we'll be on Friday June fourteenth now onto today's show. The. If you've never been to Cambodia, but if scene photos, or video footage of it, you've most likely seen one of two things you've either seen some kind of archival footage of the Camaro Rouge, the notorious radical group that took power in the mid seventies, and proceeded to destroy nearly a third of its own population or you've seen the images of the magnificent Ankor watt temples the incredible stone structures built sometime in the twelfth century. And then kind of forgotten until they were rediscovered by French explorer on remote around eighteen sixty even in photographs, these temples incite comes and Oz, but to see them in person it's a powerful mind-blowing experience, the faces of the ruling on Korean king. And the seventh that protrude out of these giant monoliths are forever. Sealed on your brain. Once you've seen them in person. I truly never grow tired of seeing these temples up. Close. Although until this trip it had been years since I visited the temples in the town of seem real ground zero for all things. I'm gore what and all things terrific. Over the past decade, Siham, reappeared really become pretty inundated with tourists or bought on as they like to call tourists in Cambodia, and I tended to stay away from this kind of action. Now he wasn't quite the hedonism in crowded streets of Kosar in Bangkok, but it also wasn't that far off. But my friend and filmmaking companion, Patrick. He had a place that he was renting up and see him reupped, and I needed to shoot some scenes there, specifically b roll. So we decided to head up there after our time, income Pote as it had turned out, come pot hadn't been nearly as successful filming trip as our time with sang dot I in chimney can Ben? You'll remember we had been filming saying that I in his family, and in his hometown during the Chinese New Year. Well, the bulk of that new year we spent down in Kampot a town in province. Don't down in the southern part of Cambodia quite close to the beach resort town of kype come in pen, traditionally always been one of my favorite spots in all of the country. Even if previously Patrick had had to find a doctor to hook me up to an IV to get my system back in order in any case. This time out Kampot had turned out to be a bit of a disaster. It wasn't composites fault. It was our fault, traveling anywhere in Cambodia during the Chinese New Year and trying to meet with people or businesses. It's a highly. Unadvisable thing. So when we'd set out there to try and film, a particular scene of particular cincy, but song come composed on. We didn't anticipate how difficult it was going to be navigating through the throngs of people that had descended upon the beach town for the holidays, and we hadn't anticipated having such difficulty finding a place to stay or more importantly, an artists that we could film depicting the sinc- some of song. Aw. But that was come pot. It didn't work out as planned we hadn't found an artist to film. So we were now on our way to see him. Reappear. To try and film, an artist who could depict the famous cincy summit song that he had written about seem aptly titled chump icing. The all. I should probably explain a little something here. The mean subject of our film since he's the most famous singer to ever come out of Cambodia was killed during the Camaro time in nineteen seventy five. Which is something that the Camaros were quite known for killing the artists that doctors, the teachers, the educated, and destroying the library's books, personal properties, law records money anything that depicted, Cambodia prior to nineteen seventy five destroyed. Even the majority of encore wats temples had the Buddha statues beheaded or dismembered. And because of this, we were not only making a film that was about the legacy of a man who is no longer alive. But to our knowledge and research, only had one single piece of archival footage of him a short clip, from a movie that he had been in cold up Sada. So a huge challenge for us with this film was figuring out creative ways to depict cincy summit and in many ways Cambodia of the sixties. And seventies, this was, obviously not really surprised us since we were well aware of the lack of photos footage, and even recordings from that time, we knew very early on that we would need to embrace a very different approach to telling this story, certainly in the case of the visual aspect of storytelling. In this involved our approach to be role. Role is just one of those pieces of film, making that can either make your documentary, look like just another talking head film, with the occasional bureau shots edited in Oregon, take your documentary film to another level of complexity. A lot of docs that you'll see you can kind of tell that the filmmaker shot an interview, and then based on the content of that interview afterwards went, and shot Biro shots that went along with what was being said, and that's totally acceptable. It's a formula that can work, right? But we felt that with Elvis of Cambodia that kind of approach to be role just wasn't going to bell, shall I say, cut it? We sensed early on that if we have any success with this film, and that if we wanted to create a film about one of the most extraordinary artists can Bodey has ever known then we were going to have to do our best to match that artistry. And therefore, we had to make something like our Biro one of the more compelling elements to our film. This morning was to be our second of three shoots with artists that were depicting a very specific sincere lit song that depicted, a very specific place in Cambodia as already mentioned Kampot hadn't worked out too well. And we were either going to have to cut the Kampot seen, or at some point, get back down there to try and shoot again. So this scene that we were about to shoot with an artist here in Siem, Reap was actually the first in the series that we were doing the idea, here was to take a local artist or VJ Takhar, as they say, income, I have them listen to the sense that song, and then have them create what the song meant to them are Takhar seem real was a painter in his late thirties, a Cambone, military man was making the majority of his money by selling his paintings of, on currency real. He had this welcoming smile and really seemed to get what we were trying to do. And so we were pretty excited about spending the day filming with him. So as you can probably make out behind me. We are currently in the process of the first of three sequences will be shooting with a local artist from town in which cincy Smith sangha. Very specific song. This is Siham reap in this is for the chimpanzee reap song. Let's get a closer look at our VJ Takhar, which is combined for artists that suits happening here on set in terms of approach, we decided on a multi camera type of strategy, I would man, the main camera, which was our candidacy, three hundred Mark two and Patrick would use his Sony seven s to on a slider. We also shoot some time lapse stuff with a gopro, and then also use an additional cannon, seventy the idea was that this scene would play over the entirety of the song, we'd start very close in. And we'd gradually move out until eventually by the end of the song, we would completely reveal the artist and their work are shots would be intercut with one another. Now, there might be very tight shots of paintbrush tips dipping. Into paint or brush strokes across the canvas there'd be some tights on hands in eyeballs slow movements from trees or flowers or figures as the song progressed and the painting started to take shape Patrick, and I would move and work around one another all day. We'd switch up lenses camera positions slider movements even a few drone shots for good measure. And we would kind of do our very best to avoid distracting. R J Takhar or painter and just let him get into the flow of his work while we did the same. Again, the whole idea here was to shoot our bureau for the scene in his artistic layaway as possible, and artists, and his or her work depicting, artists singing about their town or province. At the end of the day, what resulted was this kind of dance, amongst a handful of artists all with great respect for one another's work and ultimately all with great reverence for one of the most profound artists, this country is ever known. It was a deeply satisfying day and later on as Patrick. And I sat in watched some of the dailies, we were left with the sense that the bureau that we'd shot on that day was exactly the kind of bureau that was going to be needed to elevate and celebrate the story and the figure of our film and other than a few tweaks here and there, exactly what an how we needed to shoot the remaining two BJ truecar scenes. You've been listening depart, six of our, Chris and Cambodia series. I'd like to encourage you to really try and think outside the box when it comes to shooting bureau for your own documentaries, and to try and get away from the conventional shooting of interviews, and then filming of cut-away is afterwards and instead to try and find more compelling complex ways in which to shoot your bureau. If you can think about what your film might look like without the interview without the safety net of words and see if you can visualize, a more interesting way in which to visually depict, the story of your documentary, film, also just quickly mention that you don't always have to fully plan out your bureau shots all the time. Sometimes a very interesting shot may present itself, when you least expect it, but maybe you declined to shoot it thinking that it's not something you'd find a way to use will, I'm here to tell you that you should shoot it anyway there. There is a reason that that's something caught your eye or look good in your frame. You may not understand those reasons at the time but you should trust. Your instinct, anyway, you'll be amazed at how once you sit down and begin editing. A shot that you were unsure of at the time. It might suddenly really elevate a scene or moment in totally unexpected but quite beautiful way. So please whenever you see a possibility for an interesting shot, just shoot. It. If you'd like to see some of our interesting shots, and behind the scenes footage of our film shoot artist of seem real. You can check out the show notes for this episode and others by going to our website at the documentary, life dot com. Up next on TD L or weekly conversation with documentary industry guest and I've a feeling that you're really going to like this. That's all coming up next here on the documentary life. If you're anything like me when it comes to doc film, preparations checklists are -sential part of that preparation. Whether it's putting together a gear list, storyline notes for an edit or gathering materials for grant application, checklists are very helpful in ensuring that we're prepared for whatever may lie ahead in our dock journeys, which is why Stephanie, we've put together a very special offering for you a free eight. Part course we're calling the independent, doc filmmakers essential checklist in this. Course we outlined the essential areas, you need to build, or establish in the non creative or business aspects of your documentary film that will help you to affectively manage successfully fund and eventually launch your film out into the world. We believe that given the right strategy and insight. Every doc, filmmaker catchy their goals and intentions with their Phil. Uh-huh. We believe that there is money out there for every project that it's just a matter of finding, and securing it, and that would the right preparation in strategy, every film can be met by an active eagerly anticipating audience. And that includes yours to enroll in the independent filmmakers, essential checklist, and see how the course can help you just had on over to the documentary, life dot com slash courses. It's free. And just as we do each week here on the show, this eight part checklist in course will inform and inspire you on your documentary film journey something I wanted to mention before continuing on today's show. You've probably noticed that we're playing around with some pretty cool fresh sounds on this season of TD L, and I'd like to thank music vine for supplying us with those cool. Fresh sounds if you're interested in learning a little bit more about how music vine might be able to serve your doc project. You can check out the show notes for today's episode or you can simply go to their website. At music. Fine dot com. At age seventeen Dominic Johnson hill left the UK to travel alone to Africa where he stayed for a year before travelling on to South America, and India after reaching China in nineteen Ninety-three. He stayed for twenty five years. It was in China that he got to know the locals of Tong. The back lanes of Beijing and began to learn Chinese by studying and absorbing Hooton culture end its history, he was able to master the intricacies of the Chinese language starting from scratch before hosting the documentary TV series seasons of China. He founded a street fashion brand in two thousand six it was called plastered, eight and was inspired by his experiences of the local Chinese culture, Dominic Johnson hill. Welcome to the documentary life. We are. We're happy to have a conversation with you. Thanks, chris. What, what an introduction? I'm I'm feeding old you and me both man. You and me both. Dominic be part of the reason we brought you on today's episode. Is that a big part of the conversation that we often have Dominic is how doc filmmakers, certainly nowadays more than ever really need to embody this on Trump near entrepreneurial spirit, and you are someone can speak at length at great length about that. And for good reason, and so maybe a nice way to start this conversation would be to talk about, you know, before TV before doc filmmaking before the seasons of China's series, which, of course, will get to you were an entrepreneur, and you can you found yourself in Beijing? Tell us briefly about that story coming debate ching and your first instances of entrepreneurship yet. Well, as you said, mentioned left home. At an age and was really I did terribly at school in England. And so I felt that staying than bird hope for me, and I was very adventurous, and so, I started to travel and hitchhike across countries and, and started doing alpine climbing, and, and it was that was three years of travel of South America, Africa India, and then I ride in China Ninety-two because I had an older brother who was working on a contract in cynical. Ching now in China and I can't visit him came up to Beijing on my own say, why did you stay in China will not twenty seven years and it's quite simple? I ran out of money when I write them Beijing and, and I had, you know, to go, and so I you know, so much about entrepreneurship as being in the right place at the right time person, and I ended up in, in Beijing in BoomTown, you know, the nineties in China was was the crew. Crazy time where you could, you know, try Joe handed anything you would have made money and the literally to BAAs in the whole city, ninety ninety two and I went to one of those BAAs, and I was rubbing shoulders with CEO's CEO's in companies will come into China to set up the ripple, and I was doing jobs that I was totally unqualified full. And so what, what, what kept me in China was this incredible like just opportunity everywhere. And it wasn't a country I fell in love with, because it's Beijing's city that you come in certainly, like how it's beautiful. I like it was it was it was it was flat. It was gray as far as we had our own money. We wouldn't have to spend, you know, Chinese money we had to live in foreign designated housing, but, but, but I started to in, in China that I started thinking and that was because everywhere I looked that with the industry's or they will Mark his the hadn't opened up yet. No one had done this. And no one had done that. No mistake, Macher. Search no one t shirts. And I thought, wow. You know, I. Could do that. I've seen that, you know, work in the west and then, of course, then you're surrounded by millions of entrepreneurs because the Chinese are probably the most don't race on. And so an and so that's really where I got the bug in. I just happened to be in the right place at the right time and through most SIS. Learn about how to be an entrepreneur on kind of on a street level, and I and I got hooked well, and of course, for any sort of venture like this, you need a certain amount of capital and you find yourself in Beijing. And, and as you have said yourself, you didn't have much money, and that is often, the case, doc filmmakers, don't have a lot of financial resources to maybe to begin in this case, a number of our listeners first projects, what can you share with us in terms of, you know, maybe advice, your suggestion to kind of raise capital? Well, I'm my first business was in market research, and it was really know love travel. And so I went travelled out the parts of China that no one else wanted. To travel is with so off the beaten track. But it was still millions and hundreds of millions of customers there. And I applied myself and set up networks, you know, three taxi drivers and kiosk owners and I was providing in a information on products foreign products being sold in China, basic stuff, you know, so I didn't need an awful lot of money, will I need to do by fax machine for the taxi driver, who would then drive around and gathered information fax it to me before emails, and my startup custom. That was was quite small. But what I found was, you know, I had the market because no one else was doing it. So his right facing right time, but, but terms of creative projects. And now I'm in the creative industry with, with my brand will pass. Is that what I really find found was at the beginning, I was able to get incredible talent to work with me, the almost nothing and if not nothing if I could sell them good idea, and what I found was with creatives with credit injury before, is if I if I was passionate about an idea and I could. Pitch it well to someone was the amount of people that was full in line and work with me on that. I did for almost nothing while old quite often just nothing because they were behind the idea. And so, really, I had to work on my skills as a salesman and my skills in terms of storytelling, so that I could get people to, to, to, to join in that journey with me because when I started pasta and still to now I didn't add design software. And now an artist but I got to what I found was that, you know, the data I wasn't at selling story or selling an idea, and then documenting it. Well, and then putting that content in a decent form that people would see that I had, you know, dunning interesting things before, and the and then more people would want to join that journey that I was on. So the beginning, I started pasta with study house, an our and be so. Around five thousand dollars. And I, I still own the business outright. I just opened a shop on an all two-tone that had no shops. It was completely empty, and an an I then built it by being extremely creative about how I got people in to find out about my brand, whether it was through storytelling or doing events, but just getting people on board because they liked the idea. And I really with creatives. They if you can sell them on idea, you know, though, the they'll get emboldened and not need a lot of money. You know, I've been on that street. I think that the before we got on or before we started recording. I mentioned you that I'd done some commercial gigs in Beijing. I've been on the street where your shop for started in. It's, it's hard to believe that it was as you described initially, because, of course, it's, it's a, it's a pretty big booming area now to say the least. Yeah, yeah, crazy. I mean, I was the first shop on the street and it now gets on public holidays one hundred thousand people a day. And when I, I saw how started was, you know, I I moved into no residential streets, eight hundred Izzo Beijing to live with my family. And then one day, I had an idea to set up a t shirt shop on that street because the rent was cheap and it was an old alley way. And I thought it would be fun. But obviously the no people on the street that street on public holiday now gets hundred thousand people a day, and we were the in and thirteen years ago, we were the only shop on the street. And so, you know, I mean it's a long story, but, you know, I started off by holding catwalk shows on the street there. And, and then people started to come an interview me and, and I made some spun videos with my with my mobile phone, and a lot of events. And most people started to open shops on that street. And then it turned into like the busiest retail street in Beijing. Yeah. It's a crazy kind of China story, but this kind of stuff happens in China. It's, it's, it's an economy that's being, you know, going out for forty years in terms of open economy, and it's still it's still a long way to grow. And so as I said at the beginning right place at the right time, you know, and then, and then applying myself and working with the community really where I lived, you know, I was brain bedded into the community and you know what with the liquid chamber comas web with the, the local o ladies on the street to, to man my stores. You know, it was it was a great story of community and, and being in the right place at the right time. Two thousand sixteen China's twenty four solo attempt was scrubbed on UNESCO's Representative list of heritage. Command the ancient Chinese divided the sun's annual limits. Segments. Also wisdom, but China's traditional agricultural civilization and the pasta generation jittery but how's it today? Well, outed, affixing are our everyday. The twenty four says this documentary series season China will visit towns and villages old young experiencing the traditions and customs firsthand. Well, speaking of right place at the right time, your current documentary series of which you are the presenter Ron is called seasons of China. Let's turn direction a little bit towards seasons of China and at this moment, and maybe this time, let's turn our direction two seasons of China bit, and in. How did that I come to be for you were you in the right place at the right time? How did that series happen? Dominic. Well, then when I take you back to when I opened my teasha shop. China's most famous talk show host to came to my stole and I was talking about the importance of story is when she came to the stole, I told the story of my brand, and then I took to my house that was behind this introduce it to my children and then told her the stories of designs, and she was so into the story that she asked me to go on a chat show and, you know, in China talking in China's okwu free. So you're talking show gets audiences of up to sort of twenty million and that was my first everytime on television was on a chat show with twenty million people watching and, and I pulled up a bit of a marketing stunt because I wore a t shirt on the show at my telephone number on it out, tending anybody and then join and join the show she she pointed at my teasha, and then everyone started calling my number, but then will happen from there was peop- people thought I was good at telling stories and I try to be entertaining speak Chinese, and it was a great story. But Chinese media Farda speaks Chinese celebrates, you know, he celebrates Beijing through these. Zayn on his t shirts and it went from one show to the other to the other. And then, you know, I was never passionate about television. I was very anxious in front of the camera. But I just, you know, pushed myself and then it was show off to show. And then I ended up as a as a judge on China's own special that you have in America like the shock tank in that. And I did that show six years, and then I did show on CNN require one day, and then I spotted. And then I got us to show that was owned by FOX cool. Vintage Hon to travel around the world have been. And then and then I do a lot of shows in China. You know, I'm very known in China on television. That's one of these foreigners who speaks Chinese being a long time until I get pulling pulled into a lotta shows whenever there's a public holiday, some celebration. There's like let's into dominate. He's the around them for a while. Yeah. That's being here a long time. And so I you know. Started with a t shirt shop and then it ended up as a television presenter, you know. So I feel incredibly incredibly blessed and fortunate to be in this position here. The yeah. Yeah. I often ask myself how it will happen. But the seasons of China was it was quite funny because he's in China is. It's a twenty four episodes show. Yeah. And we had to recall that in one year because it's twenty four seasons. Each season happens every two weeks. And it coincided with me being China twenty four years, and it just seemed to good to be true. And so, you know, I was asked to, to present it, it didn't make any financial sense to me. I wasn't in a paid a huge amount of money to do it. And I got in a team of twenty people in the retail businesses. Yeah. Yeah. A lot of other responsibilities. But I'm so passionate amount travel. And I love China so much. And I love getting onto the countryside where you see the real China. Yeah. And so, I had to have along with my wife up to she'd had a glass of wine and say, listen, listen, something's come up. Yeah. Right. And maybe the next year or two. Yeah, exactly. And you know, we also forces in and you know, she was so sweet. Like I know what you love this, and, and you should do it. And so I commend did it was it was every, every ten days, you know, I was off, Laura for another adventure, and it was probably the most incredible year if not the most incredibly of my life in terms of sort of the day to day production, can you give us can you paint a picture on? Well, first of all, what was the size of the crew that you were operating with as a presenter, and then how much time was happened? How much time was being spent on sort of research in content building before you would arrive an inability or in a province. Okay, because it's China and this was well, funded we had quite, you know, lodged team, I guess compared to maybe you might do in the west. So we had to, to cameramen we had a sound guy. We had a director. We had the director's assistant, and then we would each province that we traveled to have a, a local government assistant, who would help us, you know, in filming in certain villages, and areas, and you need to have government permission to film in, in any area in China. So we would have they would be along to help as well. So that would be upwards of eight of us for, for the shoot. And so it's quite a large, I guess, compared to maybe some of your listeners who were working on a on a smaller budget would be quite a trinity launching. Someone Gelson hill, even though I'd been in China for long time, I never knew about the twenty four seven towns. I'm very excited to so to go on a journey festivals in Joe beautiful mountain. I we just had his shin to the. The reason. Customs and traditions. And it's a great place. To learn about all the stuff to spring. In terms of being the presenter, being the interviewer, how much say did you have Dominic in some of the actual content that was being filmed? Certainly, you're, you're leading conversations but was all of that prep for you beforehand, or, or again, how much how much did you have in that content? Well, I mean, I'm very passionate about story. Yeah. And that's how I really built my brand. And so I you know, the same time running a business. I'm not writing the script. So I would be sent a script usually a week prior to the filming and that was researched by team of probably three or four people in the private production humping. And also with the help of the Chinese news agency, and then we would arrive where I be hot was in some of the really interesting posits documentary, a Mike conversations with people in these provinces and compensation. As, as I tell you know, as I told my daughters who speak Chinese said, you have this, incredible skill, which you can go and travel, anywhere in this country of one point four billion Eva, and you can have a conversation with them. And that's so powerful and so going to these provinces. And you know, one time I was hanging out for this one season mountain. John, as you know, these combine harvesters these launch knows who borrow money to buy, these combine harvesters for, like twenty thousand dollars that he hasn't all this, and then they literally write them thousands of kilometers across provinces, all the way across her an up towards Beijing. Just, you know, harvesting weet, the families, six says at a time x time I to hang out with this night for three days and sleep with him. Yeah. You know in wheatfield. And and and and crazy conversations. You know, I mean that he has no idea about England a whole bunch of lies came into the Golden Harvest. And he said to me, Jeff is in England. I'm like, yeah. We do have very innocent conversation that and then now found it because I was I'm a foreign. I'm very hot on sleep kind of guy have a lot of emotion. And I found that they really opened up to me. You know, there's a with any society within within self as a lotta complications. We English people quite distrustful of each other. Especially when I hear an English peasants, but, you know, you'll wife is, you know, this soon as speech like he's, he's private school. These public school. He's Nolte south on then you start to make to judge each other. But this is an English guy who's six three he's bold, and he's got a big nose and he speaks Chinese. And he's talking to me about my relationship with my wife, which was funny one because he's away from his wife. You know, so long, you know harvesting this, this week and he really opened up to me. So it was it was fascinating. So I got to dictate the story on that side, which was to have incredible conversations with people, and, and really found that they, they got to open up also, you know, I got to lead the story in that, you know, it's so fascinating these things from foreigners perspective. And yeah. So it was a lot of fun as you were making seasons of China. Did you always were you always kind of aware that you guys were filming? Moments and you were filming people in parts of culture that, that, that, that, that soon at some point in time will no longer be like where you constantly aware of that, that you are, that you were putting something down on film. You were documentary something and, and there's importance in. Yeah. I mean, I'm -solutely I mean talking about when I ride in China in nineteen Ninety-three, there was, there was a full hundred million less so more people living in the countryside, narrow now. And so with that, that, that whole mass migration into the cities, you're seeing a lot of these coaches disappearing. And I even in one of China's oldest provinces Shansi, which is really the han-chinese come from when the Yellow River that I go to hang out with a guy who's being who's being is given money by the government to try to restore local customs and traditions, go to hang out with a with a nine Munger who, who makes tools for farmers and fixes tool. Perfomance absolutely fascinating guy. And an another woman who made weaved in a red lanterns that everyone hangs outside two houses during Chinese New Year. Yeah. And they're trying to trying to presentable this culture on the his job to do it. But in a country as old as China's two thousand eight hundred years, you could go back three or four thousand if you like the so much culture history. And it's very difficult to present that so really is absolutely an even down in young shores. Hanging out the guys who, who do the fishing with Coleman buds was a lot of people visits, China. These guys these large straw, hats and fishing with buzzes Coleman's. I got to hang out with them. And really no one does it anymore. It doesn't make sense that, that type of fishing full them. But some of them still there and they're doing it if anything Petur purposes, but it was amazing to be on boat and to see guy, let go of Coleman and see swim underneath my boat and catch a fish right underneath that will be. That fish. He had Precourt, and tied it to a piece of string and onto a rock and left it on the bottom of this. This is home. It was is comb. It was definitely out of shape, but I, but I did get to see it happen. And then you get a feel for it, but this so much culturing. I mean, China's moving on is progressing, and it's still a long way to go. And of course, it is a shame. But a lot of those old traditions coaches will be lost. And I really did feel that, that we were don't commencing the lost of a lot of things, especially with the foaming because the the that's the really the last generation of, of the small farmers. You know, the every family would get a six hundred acre or hectare of land for each member, and still holding onto that, but those people now in the sixties, and they getting too old Afam and the kids are in the cities, and, you know, they come back to help them, so that, that land is gonna get redistribution. It's going to become big pumps Dominic as we wrap up our conversation here, unlike to sort of ask you, having worked great. At length on this docu series, as a presenter, does it does it inspire you or scare you away from actually doing your documentary film. It does not scare me away at will. In fact, I think one thing I've lent businesses the importance of finding your nation and, and finding the truly passionate about, and being able to, to sell a story with I happen to sell t shirts and it doesn't sell it by con sell the story behind it. And I think there's a lot of stories that I know in, in Beijing in China through the fortunate being hit so long that I would love to tell, and if anything we're wrapping up the whole back end of it. Now I'm really really would love to get back into doing documentary, it's an China's grip base to do it because I think, you know, you can find funding as a lot of funding for the arts and culture. And I think if I can find the right story. Find the right niece. And, and, you know, some support and get people behind it that I could tell stories so absolutely. I would love to do more of mentoring Dominic, if I'm fortunate enough to find myself in a commercial or documentary job over in Beijing. Again, I certainly hope to pop by the plastered shop and I'd love to hang out with you, man. Please do. Yeah, absolutely. And I'll take you for swimming in an old lake in Beijing, and it's it'd be a pleasure to have you have wonderful. I love it. Thank you so much for being the documentary life. Dominic chris. Don't forget, if you're interested in our free, eight part course, the independent, doc filmmakers essential checklist. Course go to the documentary, life dot com slash courses. Thanks again for listening. We'll see in two weeks, time dot lifer.