House Judiciary Committee subpoenas key obstruction witness
Now, it's time for the last word with Lawrence O'Donnell. Good evening Lawrence. I'm sorry. I'm standing on your show. This is the demilitarized zone. This is this is the shared space. This is as much your territory as mine Rachel, and and thanks for the first presidential campaign interview of south Molton. So we now have two military veterans running for the democratic nominating three who's third Tara Tulsi Gabbard polluted cherries. Okay. Three, and they are all mung the youngest people running for the nomination, which for me is fascinating. Because when I was a kid you had to be a military veteran to run for anything. I mean, anything and they all were. I mean, the only person I can think of running for president when I was a kid in high school was Bobby Kennedy who was the only member of his family who didn't serve who was old enough served in serve World War Two. And and so it's fascinating to see that we then created this massive gap that was basically provoked by the Vietnam era where avoiding military service for the first time became the dominant approach to to war. And so we had John Kerry. But it's been pretty rare to have the have military veterans, especially. In a big field like this. Well, yeah. I mean, it's fascinating to me that dynamic the crossover of those dynamics is exactly right. You've got four candidates of the nineteen declared candidates who are forty years old or younger of those four three of them are the three declared veterans in the race. And so when these candidates are able to say, listen, it's our generation that took on the burden of fighting the post nine eleven wars. It's our generation as people to judge says who's taking the business end of climate change. It's our generation as Seth Moulton makes the case who needs to replace the octogenarians who are running the leadership of the party. Even when it makes people mad that we do it. I mean, they have they've earned it, you know, they have a right to make those those critiques and to have that sort of have that sort of gravitas from which to make that case for youth. I think is impressive. And it's not something we've ever seen before. I think the Democrats big field is a huge asset to the Democratic Party this year why because every year that it has happened in the modern era other than McGovern. Having a big field has democrat has benefited the Democrats in terms of turning out a stronger nominee for the general election. I mean, there's there is an exception when it comes to McGovern but other than that every time you got a big field. Every time you have a field that isn't dominated by one candidate who everybody knows is the shoe in from the beginning you end up with a stronger candidate for the general and you end up with a stronger chance of winning. So I think I mean nineteen is a lot. But I think the Democrats would be way better off with nineteen candidates than three right now. How many before you go ritual? How many do you think there will be the day after New Hampshire? Oh, gosh. I'm still thinking. I mean, we've got the first debate. You know mean I'm thinking like how many are going to be on that debate stage in Miami. And June is two nights more ready. And we we're thinking, you know, like with with two nights of the debate stage that might be a little bit weird. Like, what are there's an odd numbers? There's probably going to be like the fifteen twenty on each of the Tim nights. I I don't know. I mean, and they all have to qualify in order to get there. The winnowing process is going to be nutty. We will watch. We will see thank you ritual. Well, we cannot escape history. We cannot escape history. Abraham LINCOLN said those exact words to congress in the first year of the civil war and ABRAHAM LINCOLN knew just how much politicians like to escape the tough decision, and or the tough question and he liked to do that himself when he could. But sometimes history catches up with politicians as it seems to be doing now in a house of representatives with democratic leadership who seem to want to avoid impeachment. It might not be able to they might find that they cannot escape history. That's where a Republican member of the House Judiciary committee found himself. The last time the judiciary committee considered impeaching Republican president at the end of this hour tonight. We will show you what that Republican member of the House Judiciary committee had to say when he reached his decision to vote against his own Republican president to vote in favor of all three articles of impeachment against president, Richard Nixon. He was the only Republican who did that who voted for all three articles of impeachment. And when he did it he quoted another Republican ABRAHAM LINCOLN saying we cannot escape history. You'll want to see this historic video at the end of the hour because it has in it lessens, not just for Republican members of congress. But for all members of congress who have read the mullahs report and find themselves once again at a point. Where we cannot escape history. History has once again, presented itself to the House Judiciary committee. It's all about the House Judiciary committee which has jurisdiction over impeachment. Now that the redacted Mullah report has been delivered to congress. That is why we have had members of the House Judiciary committee on this program. Every night since the report was delivered. And we will again tonight. House Judiciary chairman Jerry Nadler unleashed, his first post Muller reports subpoena for a witness from the mullahs report to testify to his committee today. Former Trump White House counsel, Don Mcgann is that first subpoenaed witness Don Mcgann is the personification of history repeating itself. Just as Richard Nixon's. White House counsel became a star witness in the last investigation of a Republican president White House counsel, Don Mcgann is the star witness in the second half of the redacted Mullah report in which Don Mcgann is. Quoted as saying the president was always asking him to do quote crazy crap much of which Don Mcgann seem to believe was illegal crazy crap in the redacted Mullah report, Don Mcgann was in the Oval Office. When the president I discovered that Robert Mueller was appointed special prosecutor in the president said, oh my God. This is terrible. This is the end of my presidency. I'm eft Don Mcgann heard the president say that he will testify that he heard the president say that he's going to testify to all of that. And the House Judiciary committee next month on may twenty first. But before that the same subpoena that requires Don mcgann's testimony to man's that he delivered documents to the committee just two weeks from now. So that the committee can prepare for his testimony. And the committee is demanding a massive trove of documents from Don Mcgann, Jerry, Nadler is demanding all documents and Don mcgann's possession that. Late to thirty six different things beginning with statements by Michael Flynn to Federal Bureau of investigation regarding contacts with Serge Kislyak to the termination of James Komi to the termination whether contemplated or actual of special counsel, Robert Muller to presidential pardons whether possible or actual for Paul Manafort, Michael Flynn, Michael Cohen, Rick gates, Roger stone individuals associated with the Trump campaign or individuals involved in matters before the US attorney's office for the southern district of New York. This is exactly the same subpoena. That Don Mcgann would be receiving tonight. If House Judiciary chairman Jerry Nadler announced today that he was beginning impeachment hearings. And so it appears that the House Judiciary committee is beginning an investigation that looks exactly like an impeachment investigation, but is not called impeachment investigation but could easily switch. Into official impeachment mode at any moment. House. Speaker Nancy Pelosi has been publicly and privately trying to push Democrats away from impeachment talk for over a year. Now, she did not want Democrats talking about impeachment of in the last congressional election in which the Democrats won back the house representatives, but sometimes history looms larger than day to day politics and the house representatives and the redacted Mullah report has now delivered history into the hands of the house representatives, specifically the judiciary committee and for Democrats who want to avoid impeachment. They now have to contend with the most famous member of the house of representatives Alexander Cossio Cortes who now favors impeachment and leading presidential candidate. Elizabeth Warren who told Rachel motto this about impeachment on Friday night. This isn't about politics. This isn't even specifically about Donald Trump himself. It is about what a president of the United States should be able to do and what the role of congress is in saying, no, a president does not get to come in. And stop an investigation about a foreign power that attacked this country or an investigation about his own wrongdoing. Equal Justice under law. No one is above the law. And that includes the president of the United States. It is the constitutional responsibility of congress to follow through on that on Friday nights center warned told Rachel that she is in favor of impeachment in the house representatives. Even if the Republican controlled Senate will not vote to remove the president because she said, it is a point of principle. There are times when it's beyond politics when it is a point of principle to stand up and say, no president can do this that was Friday by Sunday morning. The chairman of the house intelligence committee was saying something very similar. The peach m- is likely to be unsuccessful. Now, it may be that we undertake an peach mint nonetheless. I think what we're going to have to decide as a caucus is. What is the best thing for the country? Speaker Pelosi led a conference call of House Democrats tonight, we will be joined by congressman who was on that call in a moment. The Washington Post reporting on the call tonight says house speaker Nancy Pelosi told lawmakers Monday that there are no plans to immediately open impeachment proceedings against President Trump rejecting calls from several Democrats to initiate steps to try to oust the president in a rare Monday night conference. Call the California Democrats stressed that the near term strategy in the wake of special counsel rebel is this mode of the third report is to focus on investigating the president and seeing where the inquiries lead. But Pelosi's message did not go over well with several Democrats who argued that congress has a duty to hold Trump to account with impeachment. Despite the political blowback Pelosi has long feared Representative Val. Demings. A member of the House Judiciary committee argued that as someone with more than twenty five years of experience in law enforcement. She thought the house had enough evidence to proceed. Representative Jared Huffman said the party has a duty to openly discuss the downside of not impeaching Trump for his actions in the present. It could set for the future. Leading off our discussion tonight is a democratic member of congress who was on that conference. Call tonight, congressman David cellini of Rhode Island. He is a member of the all important House Judiciary committee. Also joining us tonight. Brad Miller reformed democratic congressman from North Carolina. He worked on the democratic legal strategy to enforce subpoenas against the George W Bush administration and Meco Yang is with us. She's a former staff member of the house intelligence committee and cars, the cellini let me start with you and the conference call tonight. What can you tell us about that call was was it a call that you would describe as mostly agreeable? Or was there a lot of dissension about impeachment? Now, there's tremendous consensus within the caucus. The speaker has made it very clear publicly and again on this call that the house of representatives will not shirk its responsibilities and will hold this president accountable, and we'll defend our democracy. And there was really a discussion. I from all of the chairs of the committees of relevant jurisdiction. Kind of an update about next steps. The judiciary committee will begin a series of hearings that will further explore some of the things we've learned in the mall report. But there was a recognition that this report is breathtaking in its scope. It speaks of a sophisticated campaign by the Russians of four Navid to attack our election, and the willingness of the Trump campaign and officials Trump campaign to openly embrace that assistance for their electoral benefit. And then it went on to talk about ten instances of obstruction of Justice and found the president engage in acts which would constitute obstruction. But essentially concluded that because the president can't be charged because of DOJ memorandum that there was no point in doing further analysis. And then frankly, the most important part of that report is the special counsel reminds congress at the very end of the report of our constitutional duty to demonstrate that no one is above the law. So we're there's real broad consensus. We have a lot of work to do. We were still in the evidence gathering phase, we need to get the rest of the mullahs report and the supporting documents and really drill down and investigate appropriately in gather all the information that's available. So we can make an informed judgment about whether to proceed with impeachment or some other action cars one I listen to you in that response. You sound like someone who is taking the mullahs reports a hand off to congress of very seriously many read that hand off as a hand off to impeachment proceedings did you personally advocate for impeachment proceedings on the phone? Call tonight. Sorry. Is that for me Lawrence? Yes. Yes. No. I said on the call tonight that I thought it was very important that we approach this very judiciously in a sober way. This is a very grave moment for the country that we have the responsibility to uphold the rule of law and just show that no one is above the law, including the president of the United States that we had to continue to make sure we got the full report and the unredacted versions, but I said very emphatically that the report evidences obstruction of Justice by the president, we know that is an impeachable offense as a matter of law. We know that for sure so now the question is we need to get the balance of the information that the special counsel has the unredacted portions, they may contribute further to this discussion, we need the supporting documents, and we need to hear from some witnesses. What's important? Remember, most of the people who contributed the evidence for the obstruction of Justice offenses in the report are members of the Trump administration or former members. So this notion of like there. Democrats that are after these are his own members of his own team. So these are serious allegations. And we have a fact-finding responsibility to evidence gathering responsibility. There's a process that we must follow. But I don't think anyone should think impeachment is off the table at all. Did you show committee is going to continue to collect evidence? And then make a judgment consistent with that evidence. Wherever it leads us, and the speaker made that very clear today that we will not shirk from this responsibility. And we will collect the evidence assesit and do what's right to protect our democracy. It cannot be a political determination. We should never do impeachment for political reason, and we should also never avoid impeachment for a reason. And the speaker has made that very clear, and I think she's absolutely right. Brad miller. A you have extensive experience with congressional subpoenas and trying to get them enforced this subpoena that we saw tonight to Don Mcgann is a massive subpoena. Especially on the documents side of it talk about what you expect to result from. Just from that one subpoena with the over thirty items of on the document side being demanded, well, it's very clear that everything the subpoena asks for is is properly something congress can require be produced. The Muller report was an invitation to congress to conduct oversight. It said that they had concluded that it was within Congress's power to determine if the administration of Justice needed to be protected from the corrupt piece of presidential powers. That's almost word for word from court decisions on what Congress's oversight powers, what proper legislative purpose is for congress to issue and enforce subpoenas, congress, obviously entitled to all that it sounds like judiciary committee is all the job and undoubtedly the the Trump administration will continue to try to delay everything including very frivolous ornaments, which they've already made and. To make. But the law is very clear. This is information congress can require Meco Yang. I am going back to my days on the Senate staff the of staff of a couple of committees. And I'm thinking about what the judiciary committee is doing now. And I think it's probably what I would have advised the chairman to do back in my practical days as a staff advisor. And that is basically go ahead straight down the road of what is ineffective impeachment hearings. We don't call them that. And we don't call them that until a point on the calendar in which we've developed enough evidence that we feel is worthy to present in what we would then call impeachment hearings. But I can't think of a single thing Jerry Nadler would be doing differently tonight. If he had announced today that he's starting the impeachment process now, I don't expect. So it's very clear when you're starting with the Muller report that you'd want to get the underline documents that you'd want to speak to the Whitney. Mrs when you read that report, it's very clear their whole bunch of places where the Muller. Prosecutors looked at things and said, look if we had additional information, we might change our minds on certain things, there are some outstanding questions there are places where communications were deleted or people refuse to talk to them. So there's a lot more that congressman Nadler can do to go back and try and fill out that record. And also don't forget, we are still missing. And haven't seen any side of the counterintelligence portion of the Muller investigation, which would detail national security risks that the presence communications with the Russians or his team's communications with the Russians might have posed or might still pose and congressman Schiff is looking into that. And the foreign financial ties that the president might have congressman saloon let me just go back one more time before our break squeezes in. So the first two witnesses that German Natalie wants to hear from our Robert Mueller, and Don Mcgann, how would that be any different? If the chairman announced he wanted to. Seed to impeachment today. I don't know that would be any different than I think you're gonna see a series of hearings that will bring other witnesses that are referenced in the Muller report to give some context of their testimony ask some additional questions, and frankly to let the American people see and hear the story of the conduct of this president that's part of this process is not only to gather information educate ourselves about facts, which may not be known to us yet because of redaction or materials that haven't been provided. But also so that we do this in a transparent way and the American people can see the mullahs report comes to life, and I think that's a very important part of this process. Thank you all very much restoring tonight. Congressman David Cecil leaning, former congressman Brad Miller and Meco Yang. Thank you, all really appreciate it. And when we come back. Tony Schwartz will Jiminez Tony Schwartz wrote the book about Donald Trump. It's the book that has Donald Trump's name on it. The art of the deal was actually written by Tony Schwartz. The president is at an all time low in his polling and yet he is tweeting that he's. Never been happier. Tony schwartz. I think as some insights about what the president is feeling these days, and at the end of the hour, the House Judiciary committee cannot escape history. We will show you the last time the House Judiciary committee considered the impeachment of a Republican president. And what one of the Republican members of the committee had to say when he voted in favor of all of the articles of impeachment against that Republican president. Hi, it's Katy Tur wanna keep up with MSNBC while you're on the go subscribe to the MSN BC daily newsletter. You'll get the best of what you've missed or in this unprecedented. Era of news, text MSNBC, two six six eight six six to subscribe. After the release of the redacted Mullah report. President Trump's approval rating has hit an all time. Low in one poll, according to a new poll out today from morning consult just thirty nine percent of registered voters approve of the job. The president is doing compared to fifty seven percent who disapprove a difference of eighteen percentage points. That's the biggest gap between those two numbers since the beginning of the Trump presidency in that morning console poll on Sunday as the country was digesting report that showed the Trump White House staff, refusing to follow the president's orders repeatedly and describing the president as dangerous the president tweeted, I have never been happier or more content. When he was asked today by reporter at the White House Easter egg roll if he's concerned his staff was ignoring his orders, the president told this lie. Nobody disobeys my orders journey our discussion. Now. Is Tony Schwartz. He's the co author of Donald Trump's bestselling book, the art of the deal, and Tony the president who you know. So well is now saying he's never been happier. What what is the real internal life of Donald Trump today? He tweeted, I believe thirty times today thirty times. I mean, that's insane. And he tweets in direct proportion to his internal sense of disorder and rage. So this is a very very tortured man at the moment and the impeachment looms as the new question facing, the president the president today said he's not worried about impeachment at all one of the things that's unique about this president in the impeachment process is that he is such an out of control person Nixon wasn't saying things publicly that added to his impeachment problems. Bill Clinton wasn't saying things publicly that added to his impeachment problems all all the problems that they had were internal to the evidence. This is a president who if faced with an impeachment process will Constan. Be saying things publicly. What we know for the duration of his presidency that he has no self regulatory capacity his impulses overwhelm him. And when he is feeling under threat, he's even more reactive. And that's what you're seeing. Now, in many ways, the thing that struck me most just reading through before before I came on reading through the tweets is. Really what they say about his character and his and his focus of attention because out of those thirty tweets, I only saw one which was the Easter. Egg hunt was today, which wasn't either angry or defensive? He's the president of the United States charged with dealing with a wide range of issues, and he doesn't have anything to say about any of those issues just an angry at them, and they got it wrong. And the report comes out more report comes out and says the Russians definitely attacked and successfully attacked our election process. He has nothing to say about that. This is this is a part of the mullahs report that the president certainly hasn't reacted to it says in addition to targeting individuals involved in the Clinton campaign, the Russian officers also targeted individuals and entities involved in the administration of the elections victims, included, US, state and local entities. Such as state boards of elections secretaries of state and county governments as well as individuals who worked for those entities all in an effort to help elect Donald Trump President Donald Trump got that help he became president. He wants that help again doesn't he well unequivocally? I mean, this is a man with tunnel vision and his tunnel vision is how do I get reelected is his his alternate goal as we know is to be emperor or to be at the very least and an autocratic leader on the on par with Putin. And I think we're in a eight even in the face of all this evidence. Listen, let's be clear he's gotten away with it over and over and over again, and there are two voices in his head. One says no matter what I do. I always get away with it. The other says at some point. They're going to get me because I'm a fraud and a liar and those two impulses are operating at the same time. And I believe that we have a parallel process, which is, you know, remember Samuel hunting Huntington who's nine hundred nine six nine thousand nine hundred ninety two clash of civilizations. I think we're in a clash of not civilizations. But of world view, and I think you're seeing it in bolder and bolder relief, which is that. Percentage of the population that Trump represents I I think about what is the world view that. So under threat that you're seeing this level of reactivity. And it's actually I think it's mostly about patriarchy. It's about. Absolute authority certainty hierarchy and Trump wants to hold onto that. And the people who support Trump for the most part are the ones who most fear. They're losing that long standing. Top of the pyramid place and set against that. So that I can not lose all hope and faith set against that. I think is something potentially quite beautiful that we're starting to see which is an equal and opposite reaction that's a physics principle. So to every action there's an equal and opposite reaction, and that is the courage the addressing of of real issues, you can either be more exclusive or excluding or includes the you can either expand or you can contract and those tensions are so alive in our culture right now. And I believe that there's no there's no guarantee that we're going to come out of this. Okay. But if we do come out of it, the pain that we've experienced may unleash a leap in Evelyn canary leap that that would not have happened otherwise and what it is unleashed. So far is a fifty seven percent disapproval rate of Donald Trump. Tony schwartz. Thank you very much for. Joining us. And I really appreciate it. Thank you. And when we come back Democrats are reportedly worried about how impeachment hearings might affect their party. What about Republicans? How would they look in impeachment hearings? According to polls showed only twenty five percent. Twenty five percent approved of how the Republicans conducted themselves in the Michael Cohen hearing in the house oversight committee and fifty one percent disapproved of the Republicans in the Michael Kohn hearing that means not even all Trump supporters were pleased with the performance of Republicans in the Michael Cohen hearing, which is a pretty good template for what impeachment hearings would look like. So Donald Trump is not the only Republican with something to fear in impeachment hearings. House Republicans have plenty to fear in those hearings because the redacted Mullah report doesn't give them any ammunition to use with the most important witnesses against the president like former Trump White House counsel, Don Mcgann, they cannot call Don Mcgann convicted liar like they could call Michael Cohen. In fact, the mullahs report includes a description of Don Mcgann as a particularly credible. Witness because among other things he took notes of his conversations with the president and other people. So we'll the Republicans on the House Judiciary committee condemn note, taking in the Oval Office something that every responsible staff member has always done in the Oval Office something that I did in the Clinton Oval Office. When I was there with my boss, Daniel, Patrick Moynihan, and the chairman of the Senate finance committee, everyone does it think about it. The Republicans suffered in polling when they attacked Michael Cohen in his hearing with that one piece of munition that they had that he was a convicted liar. How bad will they look when they don't have even that to throw out a witness who is testifying against the president of the United States. After this break, we're going to be joined by former Republican congressman David jolly who will tell us how his former colleagues will handle impeachment hearings or their judiciary committee hearings that will look exactly like impeachment hearings. And we'll also. Be joined by Jim Manley who has much more experience than the staff of the United States Senate than I do Jim Manley was the chief spokesman for former Senate majority leader, Harry Reid, and he served for twenty one years and the staff on the staff of the United States Senate, including on the staff. Former Senate majority leader, George Mitchell and Senator Ted Kennedy. We'll be right back. You think this is impeachable? Yeah. I do if proven which hasn't been proven yet some of this if proven some of this would be impeachable. Yes. Journey our discussion now former Republicans from David jolly from Florida. He's an MSNBC contributor. And joining us. Jim Manley is the former chief spokesman for Senate majority leader, Harry Reid Jamila is a twenty one year veteran of the United States Senate staff and David jolly I want to start with Jerry Nadler, you know, Jerry, Nadler, you served in congress with Jerry now, and I have to say that moment yesterday where we actually watched chairman Nadler think about that impeachable question, and what he could say at this point. And he didn't find any way out of it other than yes, it is impeachable because it is we know that the president obstructed Justice. He tried to have Don Mcgann fire the special counsel, and then instructed Mcgann to lie about it in the Moyal is the fact that the president had never done that to your question. Republicans though their response. It's interesting Lawrence. What we know is it will expose their undying loyalty to this president a president who is historically unpopular on policies as well. As the fact he is now appears to have broken the law, but the unknown about Republicans is because it depends on how Democrats like chairman Nadler frame, it, you know, if you use the Clinton impeachment as historical lesson Republicans were very clear, the majority leader at the time, the Republican leader said. A nation of laws. Cannot be ruled by president who breaks those laws J C watts the number three or four Republican confronted the question of polling head on and said polling measures fleeting opinions not steadfast principles. And they've framed the issue. So that Democrats in the minority were in a spot where they actually had to end up supporting century and Bill Clinton at the end, they move for a censure resolution at this point. We haven't seen that framing by democratic leaders like chairman Nadler, and certainly not by speaker Pelosi, you're mentally you were there for the Clinton impeachment. You've got a lot of experience with these issues. But the idea that the Democrats have a difficult political calculation to make unimpeachable has been discussed. I think endlessly for over the last year, but the Republicans we now have this poll coming out of the Michael Cohen hearing showing that only twenty five percent approved of what they saw the Republicans in that hearing. Yeah, I mean, I get all that. But you know, I still have yet to see any real significant signs that Senate Republicans a particular are prepared to break from the president, you know, for the last year, or so I've been saying that it would take the president's polling numbers to go down to about thirty percent for Republicans to break with them on this issue or any other issue for that matter. But now, I'm not so convinced that that's in fact, the case more more looks to me that they've made their deal with the devil. And they've made a political cold hard political decision that the only way we're going to survive is to stick themselves to Donald Trump as closely as they can. And spare me all the talk of the rhetoric from Susan Collins or Senator Romney due to those are the cheapest, you know, words, don't mankind. So hope springs eternal, but, but as you know, and your viewers should know it will it would take sixty seven votes in the Senate, and that's an awfully big hurdle. And David jolly the we have. Elizabeth Warren saying to Rachel on Friday night. Even if she knew ahead of time that the Senate would not remove the president. She's believes the how should still move impeachment against this. President the house does not work for the Senate. The house is the house, and they are responsible for for their actions or for their inactions. And that is why it is so critical in the American people, and frankly, many many Democrats are looking at the democratic leader saying do you understand our anger to the politics Lawrence? This is very important. I was in the house when Bill Clinton was impeached in December of nineteen ninety eight. He was impeached the nation knowing that was inevitable. Still gave Republicans the popular vote in congress one month before Republicans only lost five seats two years later. Republicans only lost one seat in the house, and they gained the White House. I'm what we remember about the chaos is because Larry Flint exposed to the world. The infidelity of the incoming Republican speaker of the house and it through the Republican caucus. In into chaos, but the politics stayed with Republicans on the issue. I think Democrats are fearful of something they don't need to be fearful for I think they'll be rewarded for principal. German Lee the presidential candidates operate on a separate track from house chairman or Senate chairman. They sure do and I want to be perfectly clear to be first of all clear, I agree with much what the congressman just had to say. But yes, the reality is at the Senate Democratic caucus is gonna take their own temperature. They're all going to act on their own process. And they're not going to be driven by the presidential candidates of that. I'm very confident your Manley. David jolly, thank you for your expertise tonight. Thank you both for joining us. Really appreciate. And when we come back history is moving toward the house of representatives. And there's nothing the house continued to stop that movement. We will show you the most honorable Republican member of the House Judiciary committee the last time. That the committee considered impeaching a Republican president of the United States. We cannot escape history. When the president of the United States said that to congress he knew just how much politicians like members of congress. He was a dressing and like himself always hoped to avoid the difficult decision to escape from the difficult decision to escape from the difficult question that is in the nature of politics and politicians and ABRAHAM LINCOLN knew that one in the first year of the civil war. He told congress we cannot escape history. We of this congress, and this administration will be remembered in spite of ourselves, no, personal insignificance note, personal significance are insignificance can spare one or another of us the fiery trial through which we pass will light us down in honor or dishonor to the latest generation one hundred twelve years later, a member of Abraham Lincoln's party realized that the time. Head come when he could not escape history. He was Larry HOGAN, congressman Larry HOGAN, Republican congressman was a member of the House Judiciary committee who was considering articles of impeachment against Republican president Richard Nixon congressman HOGAN was the only Republican on the committee who voted in favor of all three articles of impeachment. Most of the Republicans on the committee voted against all of the articles of impeachment. When Larry HOGAN announced how he was going to vote. It was one of the most dramatic moments that the country witnessed in the Nixon impeachment hearings. Larry HOGAN began by quoting ABRAHAM LINCOLN saying we cannot escape history. And then he said this. Today. We're again faced with the national trial. The American people or trouble than divide it again. And my colleagues on this committee know, full well that we cannot escape history. The decision. We must jointly make itself be tested and tried by our fellow citizens and by history itself history itself. That's what was at stake for Republican Larry HOGAN in his votes in favor of the impeachment of a Republican president. Then as now there were seventeen Republicans on the House Judiciary committee, and once again, the House Judiciary committee cannot escape history. Larry HOGAN took fifteen minutes of the committee's time to explain his decision going through the points of evidence, and how hard it was for him to vote against a president who he enthusiastically supported in three presidential campaigns. Richard Nixon's failed nineteen sixty campaign against John F Kennedy, and then Nixon successful nineteen sixty eight campaign, and then his hugely successful nineteen seventy-two reelection campaign in which president Richard Nixon one forty nine states a Republican voting to undo that forty nine stay. Eight mandate for Richard Nixon wasn't an easy thing to do. But in his decision Larry HOGAN left a lesson for today's congressional Republicans. Now, I have to squeeze in one more commercial break here. So that I will have enough time on the other side of the break to show, you everything that I want you to hear that carbon. Larry HOGAN said to the judiciary committee on that historic day, which the members of his of both parties of the judiciary committee today should be remembering and acting on from her right back. Republican congressman Laurence j HOGAN of Maryland. The father of the current governor of Maryland, Larry HOGAN, junior was the only Republican on the House Judiciary committee to vote for all three articles of impeachment against president Richard Nixon in nineteen seventy four in the dramatic moment. When Carson HOGAN announced his vote to the committee and a national TV audience. He talked about the feelings that he had to put aside when he was considering his vote including personal affection for Richard Nixon and party loyalty. I'm a Republican. Party loyalty and personal affection precedents of the past much fall. I think before the arbiter of men's action the law itself. No, man, not even the president of the United States is above the law. It isn't easy for me to align myself against the president to whom I gave my enthusiastic support. In three presidential campaigns. On whose side, I've stood in many allegedly battle. Who's accomplishments and foreign and domestic affairs. I've consistently applauded. But it's impossible for me to condone or ignored. Long train of abuses to which he is subjected the presidency and the people of this country. The constitution and my own of office demand. I bear true, faith and allegiance to the principles of law and Justice upon which this nation was founded, and I cannot in good conscience turn away from the evidence of evil, but is to me so clear and compelling Larry HOGAN who died in the first year of the Trump presidency at age, eighty eight wasn't accomplished attorney and a former FBI agent. He was outraged at the way the president dealt with the FBI. And the FBI is conducting an investigation. So he says publicly I want to cooperate with the investigation and the prosecution, but privately all his words. Compelling contrary conclusion he didn't cooperate with the investigation or the prosecution. Sound familiar cars been HOGAN, whose personal investigative skills were among the best on the committee said that he read and reread all of the evidence against the president before coming to his conclusion that quote, Richard Nixon has beyond a reasonable doubt committed impeachable offenses. He addressed himself to his fellow Republican members of the committee, particularly Charles Sandman who voted no on all three articles of impeachment. My friend from New Jersey mister Sandman said last night. He wants to see direct proof from some of my other friends on the side of the island said the same thing. But I submit that what they're looking for is an arrow to the heart. And we do not find the evidence and arrow to the heart. We find a virus? That is that that creeps up on you, slowly and gradually until its obviousness is so overwhelming to we have to step back, and we have to look at the whole picture. And when you look at the whole mosaic of the evidence that's come before us to me. It's overwhelming beyond a reasonable doubt. Cars would HOGAN recited a loyally summary of the specific evidence against the president of the United States and ended with this. Neak consistently tried to cover up the evidence and obstruct Justice and as much as it pains me to say he should be impeached and removed from office. Time of the gentlemen has expired. The time of the gentlemen has expired, but the time of the gentleman's historic words is upon us. Once again, the honorable Lawrence j HOGAN gets tonight's last word. Hi, it's Katy Tur want to keep up with MSNBC while you're on the go subscribe to the MSNBC daily newsletter. You'll get the best of what you've missed doing this unprecedented era of news, text MSNBC, two six six eight six six to subscribe.