Poppin Out Kids and Praying Rosaries
Welcome to if these ovaries could talk. I'm gene I'm robin where you're mature. A I am a lesbian. We tell our stories not your nuclear family anymore. Such as your mom and dad were not earning. Oh you guys I before we get into things. Can we please talk about the event we went to last week for the? You gotta believe gotTa believe. I mean using shirt foster children. Don't age out with their mission. Yeah and and you remember mother Mary from season from last year. How could you not remember mother Mary if he didn't listen to mother Mary's episode go back? Listen to her. She's this woman who fostered how many children eight hundred million. She's like Ronald Lady lives in a shoe. We joked about that in the dance. She is like the whole time. She's talking to us. We knew her as Mary and then I said can. We claim mother Mary. She said everybody calls me that because she just has this vile she's amazing she's so loving and accepting and patient and kind like she's literally mother. Mary and so we went to they. Did a Seth Detsky who you also remember from our podcast and has been James was land is has been James Wesley so they put a benefit. It's like a Broadway benefit with Broadway stars for. You GotTa believe in and Mary Mother. Mary invited us with our wives. So we got like sitters and we went out on. The town had a date night. Double date date he did was so we sat down. We sat down in the theater. And I said we're prepared to cry. We're GONNA cry. She was like why would we cry? I was like that was an. Yeah why was I know but you were like? Oh we'll see I don't know what you said you said you you know you feel in the crying like I. I acquired eastern guys Robbins saw. I was afraid to look over at her. I was like Oh God. Is She really sobbing? That wasn't sure Kohl's dreaming down my face during the entire thing story really. Laurie half who I remember as Jackie from Roseanne but she does much our I mean. She's so amazing. She got up and spoke. I didn't even know that she was a foster mom was just it was. It was so powerful story was beautiful sunny. I went home until my kids about the stories. Because you have no idea how lucky you are. She went home was telling him about that. One girl who's foster parents locked the food padlocks and only their natural born kids got back keys and my kids were just like staring blank. Faced me Oh my God of Evil Fairytale Gusting like that actually happens. I know there's so many terrible things out there but then there's good foster parents as well. Which is what this event highlighted and the ones who become these children's forever homes even when they're sixteen seventeen eighteen twenty two. She got adopted. Finally it just matters so much because when you think about these foster kids their system so long they don't have an example of what a family is. They don't have a blueprint you know. Our kids are so lucky to have a blueprint of what you do and they have us to help them get a bank account. You get a self like all these things that you need rental help apply to college. College apply to high school at a middle school. But you gotta you gotTa check out you got to believe and in donate to them and and look into organization their website is you gotta believe Dot Org. Just they're just Just such an incredible. We talk for hours but we're not going to bring him back on it again. I know Jeez. Okay one more of business before we introduce our guests We did a guest spot last week. Bear on the. I love my wife. Podcast there so those I love them so much and they're part of the DNR network Derek and remains show that we use now yes and work on part of that network to join the family. Yeah GO CHECK IT OUT GUYS. Take you know it's really find. It was really fun to talk to them. They're easy to talk to Jenny. Who Okay talking about. Let's talk about arrests for today? Wow this lady. We had such a deep conversation with this Her name is Sarah Stevens their sti and she's the founder of the beautiful project and the organization helps women right new endings two stories. They believe about their bodies inviting them to take up space in every area of their lives rape frigging mission statement. Yeah I mean when we got into the whole body topic We could have. We talked way longer than me at planned. I of all and we could have talked to her for. I think another two hours because who doesn't have what woman in this world doesn't have a body issue. Martin will not meet not at all not at all the issues When she also talked about her nontraditional family in the creation I was she was married to a man and A. Let's let's just. Should we go to the interview? Really Great Story Guys Interview at. Hi Sarah. Oh my God nice to see you. Welcome all the way from where you at. I am in Iowa I just I just feel like there should be an explanation for that but it's just the reality I to Sarah. Are you from Iowa? Originally I so I live on the border of Iowa and Illinois. We live in this little space called the quad cities. And so it's four city loosely. But it's more city ish is That they put together and so we're right on the Mississippi so I actually live in Illinois Iowa but for us here. It's like all one st honestly but it's not That's interesting it's something. Yeah so I have been here most of my life. I didn't intend to stay. I came back when we were raising babies. I was like it's going to be a brief stop and that was eighteen years ago. So and yeah and back brief. The baby's kind of stick. You where you are we. I feel I feel like you're doing a very now. You're you're a podcast which we can. You're doing a very natural transition into our elevator. Ask Thank you hold on on your mark. Get set go. So we are. A to mom Three teenager household. We also have an eight pound epileptic Maltese. That I feel like needs to be mentioned because the epilepsy makes them extra? We'll just extra we. My wife and I have been together for six years. Were a blended family so these are children from my marriage to my ex husband. She came on the scene and we have been in the difficult part of teenage parenting. We've done it together. Were committed to staying in it you you did it right at the managed. I'm so impressed by you. Didn't even seem nervous. Union seem like eating seem worried I was making I was more nervous for you. Get five second out. I was like I've got seven sentences left to say bag seconds. But that's cool. We can do that well. The beauty is now we have you know forty minutes to finish I earnestly firstly. I'd like to know your dog's name. He's Max the Maltese sometimes. Max Max I don't know yeah. Kenzi do aren't will tell us about your family. Where did it start and how did how did how did you make your kids and your family and it's not a linear story at all so I at my now ex husband in my last year college. We were both from a pretty religious background. We were going to a very conservative Catholic college which feels like a when I say that out loud I have a little like dissociation. Like whose life was that but it was mine so we met at this Catholic College. We actually got pregnant with our daughter within a couple of months at which case anybody was wondering wow not real popular at the Super Catholic College. Oh you weren't married yet. We were not married now. So Atta girl. Yeah you know. Go bigger go home. Apparently so we had Alana. We got married. We had three kids pretty quickly so Alana was born in. Oh to aid the no three gave no five so my now ex husband and this part gets fuzzy to that's part of my problem with retelling it because honestly there was a significant amount of trauma through this this phase of my life as well but somewhere in the I was pregnant with gave. I'm pretty sure so three little kids. I was a part time. Stay at home. Mom Part Time Youth Minister and my ex husband was in sales and he came home one day and said he didn't WanNa live anymore so he went through this pretty deep mental health crisis with three little people very little people at home and in the process of sort of digging what was underneath that. What he disclosed to me is that he had been serially. Faithful in our marriage Years yes and you had no idea no you know. That's it's intuition thing. There was no reason on the outside to think that was the case we were in so many ways like that. I use airboats here like good Catholic family unquote so popping out. Kids praying rosaries like a whole different life. Like it's so weird for me to say and we popping out kids and pray that is the name of this essence your kids in rosaries. Actually that is probably pretty good. I feel or the name of your autobiography. Yes yeah so he discloses all of this to me and I would love to say that I was like this empowered woman who said leave but I had no means of making an income. Really I was. I was a part time. Youth Minister they don't make any money either was pregnant with gave or had had gave honestly super fuzzy trauma response to this whole phase of my life but we tried to work on it for a year. And I don't even really know what that means other than we were just in therapy a lot. But in the course of that time he continued to disclose details and ultimately the thing that I didn't mention is that Jason serially unfaithful with men. And so on that would that would explain the why he didn't want to say so. Yeah and that I am Jason. I are actually friends today. That was a lot of work is slow a lot of healing But I imagine hand today find some space in me for some empathy around the kind of burden that was for him to you know we were really young and we had. We both had a lot of external forces on us. That said this is the way you live. And the way that Jason's truth manifested in our relationship was extremely damaging and painful to me into our children but I know that wasn't his intention It's just the reality of where he was at in his life. So you know. Some people here are storing. And they're like oh he's gay your gay. It sounds so lovely like a parlor trick. Yeah like it was clean. People really do say some weird ship in this part of the story just so you know so. I had a four three and newborn for your own three-year-old newborn. I was making eleven thousand dollars a year and So I walked to the experience of losing everything. We lost our home our car. Maybe last Mike. We lost everything we had put together as a family and those are some pretty dark years for me of deconstructing. Pretty much everything. I believed to be true. Because that's what it felt likes me. We'LL CAN I. Can I ask like? Did you know you were gay at this point in like was that part of the conversation no or it was just it was just. He's leaving you for guests. It was that Jason's abandoning his family. That was really the narrative right. But you know about my own sexuality I think in hindsight I know a lot more now when I look at it. I remember being attracted to women when our girls when I was young and I remembered not making a choice. Not Feeling like there was a choice. It wasn't even that that felt like a choice to me. I just and I'm a bad ass. Compartmentalize IRS so I was like. Oh well what is that oddity? I'M GONNA have to package that away somewhere. In order to have the belonging that I'm looking for the mazing these external forces can do to us so powerful it's just mind bogg- so powerful and they think about it. My family they actually weren't overtly religious. I'd sort of I kind of go bigger. Go home about everything so I have been raised in a Catholic family and I was like well if we're GONNA be this and we're going to be this all the way which is Kinda wear that stream expression of living in that religious context came from so my family. It wasn't even it wasn't even the issue isn't even so much a religious thing. I don't I still. Don't quite get the resistance. Other than I knew for sure I would cease to belong if that was my reality. If I if I set out loud I love women. At that event I wouldn't belong anymore and man belonging so attached to our sense of survival a I had such a similar thing to. I remember thinking because I was. I didn't come out until after college. And I remember thinking I had this all these friends that had become my family because my family life wasn't amazing and I remember thinking well I guess I'll just like moved to New York and I'll just maybe I'll I'll be gay but I'm going to give up all my house because I didn't think I could ever see a world where I could be loved by People. I don't I just had so much. Shame around it. So it's similar to what you're saying now. I got this big broadcast gay. That is pretty gay sweatpants in my Atari today today so anyway sharp to you but let me think okay so yeah my that place in my life was entirely about survival I had three small people who were dependent on me. I have no way to really make a living so my first order of business was not about who I wanted to fall in love with it was how do I feed them. Yeah yeah so I know you said Jason disappeared. Does that mean he also like money just like he didn't send you any money he didn't I Started working at a frontline job in corporate healthcare. I was registering patients in the Er but about a year. After I took that job they approached me inside. You're overqualified for this. You've got natural leadership skill. Yeah think welcome to my entire fucking reality. Thank you but Tapped me inside. Would you like to be in a leadership role in said yes and so that was two thousand? Eight from two thousand. Eight to two thousand sixteen. I really carved out a career in corporate healthcare when I left corporate healthcare and Sixteen. I was director about patient services running like ninety million in revenue and learn how to build a business from that experience. Corporate healthcare also sucked my will the live But that was brutal. People who stay in are just euros. Honestly so I- rebuilt the The more like temporal like the things around us was really through that work. I probably three years into that process when I started to able to transition out of surviving right like when I knew able to eat next week in pay rent and pay our car payment. Those real basic needs that was when I started to look at the rest of my life and say well what do I want it to look like now because I have some choices about that and I dated a couple of guys But it was not there. I mean it never really. I'm really being honest. That never really was there. But it was like your latest. This curious is really boring and this was the other experience I like to share. Because it's funny to me now. A perplexing to me then there were these. Two there was The released to lesbian nurses was a nurse one was a medic who came into the Er all the time and is hilarious. We're already like this backley. What happened I remember being completely confused? By why every time they were around. I turn this like washing schoolgirl in conversation like I. Surely you're reading my eyelashes and like am I. What is going on right? So I'd moved into the space of not just surviving anymore and I've been out. I've gone out with some work friends at a party and the medic of the medic in the lesbian nurse the medic was there and I met her that might and she the easiest way for me to explain. This is that she saw something she saw in me what I was unwilling to see in myself and she just after it. I DID NOT RESIST THAT. Which is also really clear like in on. I think back about that time that surprises me because I still had some pretty intense like walls up but she was just relentless and that relationship was a hot fucking mess but it is that. I'm so grateful that she just didn't let up. Because one side the truth was outside of me. I never tried to put it back in. I couldn't it was like toothpicks. I can't put not annot what I knew. I was thirty three so that relationship ended quickly And I came out right away though to my family and I just. It's so weird to me like in the course of two steps like I'm straight and then I was like no I'm not actually gay in everybody's GonNa know and everybody can just go. Yeah it was quick you are all or nothing yellow bit are all or nothing then took me like ten years to slowly come out so much crying so much but also you also like you know like I mean. I don't even know you just knew I knew I couldn't unknown. She knew she knew. Yeah and it had your house your family. Take it very poorly. Yeah my It was a very my mom and I used to talk every day and actually that was sort of a not healthy as well but little enmeshed in there but whatever so I told her and her response to me was that it'd be better if I told her I was dying. So yeah so. We didn't talk forever for very long time almost a year. Which for me. That was enormous. But I don't I don't have a real reasonable explanation about how I just persisted in that place but I did not look back so I was like okay. That isn't my problem. Were you had been through so much at that point. I mean I had to imagine you were just like you're the with Mir. You're against me. Yeah I just had nothing for it so I let her go for a year And the rest of my family was also not great. I did that. You're very much alone. However odd part of the story My ex-husband's whole life fell apart. Which is how these things happen. And so he had in this process some point earlier remember which year he showed up on my actually on my doorstep and said can I see them and I was like you know come back with pizza on Friday. Like name will talk. You know and some bad. Yeah Hey yes lots of money. Please come with a check in a pizza. Thank you What had been your conversation to the kids are about him up to this point. I probably did a lot of protecting honestly I of him I wanted honestly to this day. Jason Your friends but there are still things I wish he you. I wish were different about him. As a father and so I've put in a lot of labor into his relationship with them and some people are critic pumping shoe good parent. Yeah I just I sometimes I get some shit for that you know And ultimately if I'M GONNA air I'd rather err on the side of generosity that would cause it's better for them it is so when showed back up? It took some time six months or so but he was like I could really use a place to live and could I live in your basement and I was like actually. It's a genius idea because you can pay the rent child's for it and so for years we actually just co parented. That way like he'd have three days a week and he'd come upstairs and be with the kids and I go be single issue or something down to the basement. I did not. I still stayed. He's he would have to sleep. He always had to sleep in the basement. Always basement didn't get down down down down down down so he is in the basement. Where were you sleeping was like you had the girlfriend? And you're at a girlfriend's house during those days often just sleep in my own we had. It was a sizable enough house. I can say from my own bedroom but honestly but it was like. You're in charge of the kid exactly and I'd have to like take anybody to a grocery store. I could just leave my house whenever I want. And so it was amazing. Actually that sounds was actually really lovely and to be honest he during that year where I felt pretty alone and my family had very much. Been lying. YOU'RE GONNA have to convert back or something. I don't even know what the hell that was. He actually was. Ironically he was a beautiful support system for me at the time so we That year was hard. I met my first real like long term girlfriend in that year and My Family Kinda came back around I I've known my wife for while this whole time. An she worked at the same health system that I worked at she was. She's actually the person I reached out to When I was trying to disclose to my kids because I thought her council I was like how do I do this because they were? I don't know eleven twelve They were old enough that it was. I would assume it was going to be kind of or shattering for them. Yeah and I'm sorry to interrupt but had you raised them in the Catholic Church Not really up to the knowing not even close to how you there is a definite even after the divorced before my coming out. I just had nothing left for the church it was. I honestly saw so much of how I ended up in the situation as a result really it was like an outgrowth of the theology that we were taught about how to be in relationship and it was damaging and destructive and honestly the people in the church were awful. They were when they found out that Jason was with men. They treated the entire family poorly. I was just over it. I was like I don't. I HAVE NOTHING. That'll do right exactly so John Right so disclose to my kids might now told me she said when I said how do I do this she goes? They already know Sarah and I was like they did not know they do not know and she was like. I promise they probably already know so. I took them to applebees over some rib. Baskets and applebee's we'll public disclosure. I'm not sure what the hell that was about. And at this correctly he can parliament so I was with Jen at the time and I just told them like you guys know Jan Johnson just months friend and I love Janet. I explained that to them and Alana my oldest said. It's about time you told us so. She did actually now. She was maybe twelve eleven Not Quite ten. I don't know somewhere between ten and twelve. My Middle Child Aidan said the same. He actually knew as well but gave who has five or six was like stared at me for a second. Then he goes. You're telling me you like girls to like that's what you're telling me and actually like literally that was it that was. It wasn't a big thing I feared. I don't know what I feared. I well I see more instability for them. They had already been through so much up until that point and did they know about their dads. Thanks no I actually came out to the kids before Jason Did know. It took him a couple more years honestly before he came out to the kids so Was that hard for the kids to have two gay. Parents will go three other so well in Jason's partner to so there's a lot of gay people are so many games. We'll keep count five. I'm sure there are more probably closeted but anyway gave the youngest has always struggled more with that. He actually beckon. I'll talk about how took Gabe. Beck's my wife. My wife gave some party three years ago. We're he finally had friends over to the House and it was like Gabes coming out party because he finally told both of his friends. Apparently up until that becky had been His aunt who is sleeping in the same room as me didn't know this law my goodness Um goodness and so all twelve of those little boys ran upstairs to her bedroom and like told us how they thought it was okay and they loved it and they were fine so really. Gabe was the one who struggled the most because for Gabes really about. He doesn't want people to talk shit about his mom. And that is where it comes from for Gabe but the other two have just been adjusted and their friends are lovely and we don't hide anything so everybody seems okay ish. I mean they're teenagers. It's really fucking hard to tell but coming this fine. Yeah so I was agenda for three years and then that relationship ended and my wife and I had been friends for years probably ten years and that turned into something different. And we've been together six years now. Married three congratulations. Thanks yeah she came on the scene at the end of the kids were twelve eleven and eight so she got the end of the honeymoon period. So she's been with me through. A teenage parenting is it's it's just hard. It's hard in Becky's been here for the hardest part and Beckenham had to figure out Beck's fourteen years older than I am and so we come from very different. Parenting like eras. She's all that light is shutdown. Just be quiet. Hey listen to me because said so exactly. Yeah no not in my I mean. Yeah so we've had to do a lot of work around that to. Did she bring kids to the marriage to know she had never had kids? So I Yeah she walked into three children in their teens. At other. She's she's she's amazing. She's amazing my wife is incredible If I guess why we have a new podcast to tell you about called nursing and cursing that you gotta get really fun extreme. You're welcome. I'm so basically nursing. Cursing is the parenting podcast. That covers what they like to say as more shit than your baby's full diaper get that so if you've ever accidentally grabbed she stick out of your purse instead of a Tampon. That or you thought about this mother and you're sleeping husband or in our case wives As your baby wakes up for the one hundredth time that early last night so this podcast is hosted by five miles which is incredible and these guys have been friends since childhood and each episode. They break down a parenting topic. That moms at every age stage are GONNA relate to. It's true I just listened to one that the topic is parenting past seven PM. And it's the worst thing in the world. Parenting it at seven o'clock. I'm always like at seven o'clock always like I'm off the clock. They know you know how I get after seven. You know they say it borders on like you border on child abuse parenting to child abuse it saying well anyway and the host the twin them they have ten kids that arranging ages of two to thirteen. So you're going to get a bunch of experiences from infertility to postpartum depression and these ladies are going to be. Basically Your Sister Wife Spirit guides through the twisted maze of motherhood between all know about and some of the Fan. Favourite episodes include post-partum husband hatred or in our wives as part of wives hatred. I get that in which the analyze exactly. What combination of exhaustion hormones make us turn on our beloved spouses after the babies are born and then they also have a episode? Home Guilt Guilt which discusses why the feelings of failing is so universal and motherhood and silence your inner bill all the time all the time all the time and the cool thing is that every episode ends with a hilarious roundup of the host parenting nails and fails on week Some sturdy like you've like what like you've never fallen asleep on your babies floor while your toddler leaves the House alone and cruises down the block. That's economic no hasn't gotten that. I want to hear that story. Sure do so guys. Just subscribe and listen to nursing and cursing on apple podcast spotify or wherever you get your pods and why listener say you will laugh. You'll cry. You will thank God for these hilarious women who tell it like it is funny and they sound like brethren sisterhood wives. Similar people to us is what I was trying to say. Came out all wrong. We Love them pep straight anyway anyway. The Day So you you had a transition. We talked a little bit before we started recording about some of the stuff that you're doing now that has been like an extension of all the change you've gone through key tells a little bit about that and you're in the project that you are doing. Yeah so I mentioned in corporate healthcare. I left that in Actually on Leap Day of two thousand sixteen. Because I didn't actually plan it that way but I saw me. You're GONNA do with your extra day this year and I was like I'm GONNA quit this. Shitty quit so I did. I did I dow. Yes so are you gonNa do this leap year? Yeah can't wait God please. Nothing honestly like it's maybe just maybe Arina. Please don't really gift certificate for massage. So you can't get them. You'll be to like zoned out. That would be excellent. I'd save everybody a lot of pain so I resigned from that position. I wasn't sure what I was going to do next. My Wife owns coaching and consulting business. She's been a coach for many years. A couple of decades before coaching trendy. Actually when you say coach do you mean like a life coach? Yes socially certified life coach. She's she's actually done a lot of work in India. Graham which is gaining popularity now. So she was doing work independently and I saw this posting for a startup nonprofit locally that wanted to connect women with mentors in our community and sat down with them and they were like so. We've got one ten thousand dollar check in about four people who might want to be involved? You WanNa maybe see if you can make this happen so I said yes because apparently that's for was leap day for Fuck Sake. I mean why not. Yeah that's what I'm GonNa do because I already did this already. Left and so. We spent the last three years building that program today. It has over seven hundred and fifty women. We've been matched cross industry in our community. It's it's amazing. It is an amazing amazing program. So I got to build that the last three years but in that process my own idea came to me. It's called the beautiful project and it's beautiful with two l's because it's not about beauty but about an invitation to be full. It came really as a result of a really an entire life experience for me of trying to fix my body your shrink my body. I've been at this size and I've been a hundred smaller than this in. It didn't matter what my body size was. The obsession was always there for it to be different It was this moment I had with a physician. She offered to prescribe me speed. This was great. Superfund and of twenty seventeen so she In that yeah. She's odd and this one thousand nine hundred sixty two. You lost your mind. And in her head she was helping I suppose per. She has so should should have given you some adderall incredibly effective. Yeah something like that. The good news about that moment is that I've been doing some work. I actually started to be kind of turned onto some people who are working in the anti diet culture fat positively in this movement in this space of understanding that there were people who were living in large bodies who were actually able to live and not spend their entire lives shrinking their body and that resonated with me because I thought about sort of the sum. Total of energy in time and money spent on shrinking. My Body and I was starting to come to this place rivals like that's bullshit. I WanNa do something else with my life besides get smaller or tried to get smaller. So I sat in my car with prescription for speed in my hand and Thought about my daughter and I thought about the fact that right now. Her body looks the way that the world wants it to look but it might not always and she might sit in her car with a prescription for speed with a physician. Who says come back every three months for liver and kidney function tests and she would have a choice to make and I thought about how I won't be sitting in the car with her but I want my voice to be in her head in her heart and her bones and then I thought about how my voice be enough so I This line I want a form of course courage. That can sing to her and not just her but all of our daughters and all of us all of our moms because this is like a lineage of shrinking stories and so from that place beautiful project was born. It started as a place for me to write a more than it turned into a podcast. And it's got live events now. Is that the name of your Your pocket is beautiful project podcast. They just launched season. Three and season three is I call it the Mamas and the makers in it's about how women are creative force in the world. How take up space by way of what we create? An how what we create Changes the world. It also changes US and and my line for that is just ordinary women telling extraordinary truth because that's what happens like you said a woman down and just ask her to open up and she just cracks opened with the most beautiful things and then. I'm launching a gallery so I'm inviting photographers to if they want to do like a a body project-specific Gallery we have one right now that I'm getting ready to put out there and it was this woman who just wanted to bring six to eight women in real bodies of all shapes and sizes and she did a bunch of nude and semi nude and they're extraordinary and they tell a story about women and how our bodies look different in our bodies look different as they age and how body diversity vine to say. Yes so ex. Ats that is the work. So I just left that nonprofit at the end of nineteen to turn the corner and spent all of my time and energy and resources into developing the project and amplifying the message from other stages. I think it's great and I think it's Actually along the lines of our podcast just representation representation matters seeing people that look like you really really makes a huge fucking for not being told that you have to write a friend to be healthy happy right exactly that form you know. I grew up. My mother was overweight. My whole life. My mom and I'm really really really protective of my mother and I'm really protective of people who who live in an overweight body and who who struggle with it. My mom struggled so hard. I struggle with my weight too. I have crazy body issues too but I'm so overly sensitive to the way overweight people are treated in our society and how we don't see it everywhere to the extent that just the other night. I'm putting my daughter to sleep. And she she asked me she goes. Do you like skinny or fat manner. I said what what what she said. Do you like skinnier fat better. I said where did you? Who where did you hear? Where do the question come from? And I think I came on really hard on her. I didn't handle it right. Because she shutdown she saw that I got upset by that question and she wouldn't continue the conversation with me. I said it up but it's because all these. Yeah but I have all these feelings about this stuff. And I'm so super hyper aware of people. Fat Shame everywhere and I don't WanNa hear my daughter to hear those conversations. I don't want her to hear fetching me and I was in target the other day and this is a happy thing walking through target and they had plus sized mannequins and it was so great to see these bigger bodies. These these clothes that look. They looked so good representation really mattering through John. I love the story about your daughter. I think how we talk to our kids about matters. People asked me a lot when I think about that and about what I think about talking to them about weight in their own bodies and the thing. I see all the time that I tell my own family is that all bodies are good. All bodies are good bodies. That's that's where we're going to start right so I try to come from a weight neutral approach because their bodies will change over time. I mean I. Don't you know reality for me is? I don't know what my body would like today. Had I not spent two decades in some in some version of disordered eating honestly like that. Yeah Yup of Christ. We all did. Yeah Yeah as a woman. I name a woman who hasn't so what I dealt with that I was gonna say what I want. More for. My daughter's for her to learn body trust that she can trust things like her hunger her fullness and she can trust what she craves and she can trust yourself to eat emotionally and understand that there will be an end to that like all the things that we've demonized that are really a part of Diet culture. Talk that you don't really see until you once you see where diet culture is and how operates you can't unsee it. It's the toothpaste in the tube again. Right in its freaking everywhere so I try to have this knowledge set set of messaging that fat or skinny irrelevant to me. All bodies are good and and we try to engage with like what are your views and And I want her to know she can trust yourself. I wanted to know that about frequent everything right and we're not taught that anything. Yeah well I think I also have like a major food issue and so I've talked about it regularly and I've lost you know significant recently in the last year or two but like what. You're what you're talking about that I think is the most important thing is. It's not about the weight or the number. It's the obsession. It's about freeing yourself like in that comes with with with with a an addiction of food which is like the constantly. I remember walking down the street and thinking like a justified. If I could just paid a magic knife that would like just carve out the the the fat where I wanted it to be like like just insane thoughts like walking on the street and I thought that and or anything like if I could eat certain not eat this or I'm gonNA shine. I'm not going to get the cake. I'm not going to someone's talking to me. I'm not GonNa get the cake on. I'm getting the cake so small piece of cake a little bit and then I can have a second base because I worked out like that like that train and for me. It was like the weight loss wasn't about. It was about being a body that I felt comfortable with but it was more about being on a plan where the obsession wasn't happening for me like I need to be on a plan in order to stop like there has to be a judge and a jury that tells me to stop. Because something's broken for me that I don't I don't know I don't know if I'm hungry my own most the time. I am an emotional eater and there won't be a period it'll be a forever thing and then and then I just feel grocer and then I'm doing more and it's a spiral and like I need a judge and a jury to be like no. You had what you're supposed to have for the day and that frees me from the obsession but it but it doesn't change the conversations the that have been handed to me from society about body in the way it should look and all that. That's you know those two things. I think are critical. Yeah I love that. You're honing in on freedom because that's ultimately what I'm talking about as well. You know I do remember that movie. What women want okay? So He's he's jogging through Central Park. I think in the whole right swarm of women is hearing on his listening to their thoughts. And they're all obsessive mostly about ways that they've screwed something up or something's wrong Blah Blah Blah and then. There's the last woman who's counting the calories in butter in her toast and that resonates with me right and I had this this moment there were when I think about that scene because I know it's true for all of us regardless of body size. You've already said that. I mean I can't see your whole bodies but I can tell there's differences in your body's there's a difference in mine and we're all talking about the same experience of obsession around the size of our bodies and what we're putting in to them and always counting always measuring and the science supports. There is ample science that supports the fact that the most certain way to create an obsession about something in the human psyche is to restrict it. That's literally the most path in the human psyche. So is it any wonder. Then that we develop over time narrow pathway. That says that obsesses about food because from from our earliest memory regardless of body size you're always trying to control it and I will tell you that I mean for me. The freedom started my throughout my scale for the first thing I feared did that of course to release was make my theory was. I'm this fat and try this hard. What'll happen if I stop and turns out for me what's happened. Is that for the first time in over a decade my weight. I'm well I don't weigh myself. The UH also I can tell by my clothes that my body has stabilized. And I'm just now getting to a place where I'm adding like some pretty intense movement back into my because I I have to careful honestly like the gym is the most triggering place in the world for me to go. I just need to try harder. You know back or way of thinking. Yeah so really what happened for me is the I used to think about the things. I shouldn't eat a thousand times a day there. What happens what has happened for me is there is nothing. I shouldn't eat and suddenly I have freedom back like and it wasn't suddenly that's a lie. It took it. I still find it sometimes in my psyche. All notice that I'll I might human calculator for calories in macro because I've spent my entire life paying attention to them right fine myself doing this leg. Oh like you said I can eat that because I worked out. I mean I'm just trying to be gentle with myself. I spent forty years saturated in diet culture of corn. Still going to think that way sometimes but when I ran for myself and for the women around me as freedom and I just think we're here to do more than shrink and I also think that when we spend our lives obsessed with in consumed by the idea that we have to shrink our bodies. There's no way that's not spilling over into an invitation to shrink our voice. Our ambition our dreams. We can't be told shrink one place and take up space in another just doesn't work that way. If you think about some of the common things we hear women talk about like how we apologize for. F- for existence like Nod Odd Molly saying to my daughter. Don't colleges to me. You didn't do anything wrong. I'm always saying that to her. I'm a big culprit of knowledge. Yes yeah so. I wonder what would happen if we just went. If we started somewhere in for me the starting point was in my body where I went. Fuck this I'm Gonna I'M GONNA take up space. It doesn't mean that I don't care about my body or my health infect. The opposite is true. I'd like to. I'd like to welcome myself to a place in my life where all of my health is relevant not just the just not just my BMI which incidentally was actually never developed for what we use it for when you look at the history of the BMI was not developed to be individually applied to people it was developed look at global populations. What was happening globally. So you know we just got caught up in all of these components Diet Culture. Bet incidentally it's part of multibillion dollar to that yeah so there's all of that at work and I think women are I. I know I said at once or maybe three times. We're here to do more than shrink. Well that's why for me. It has to be. It's a food plan and not a diet if it's a Diet. I'm I'm restricting and I'm like so it's like I can have a lot more but it's like I do have to be on a food plant personally. I 'cause that that actually gives me freedom when I'm not on a food plan. I'm an insane person but whatever I just think whatever it is that doesn't make you insane yes and I don't know what you need to figure that out for yourself you do. I think there are some places that we can start the conversation too though for women you know. I think I was just telling the story recently. I was in the gym. I have been back in the gym for a couple of months before that I was walking in practicing yoga and I teach yoga. I mean I've I've always moved my body and I always will along as I can so I was back in the gym because it's really cold in Iowa right now in its different outside And so I was swimming and I saw him in the locker room getting changed. And there's the scale in front of me. I watched twelve. Women walked by me in twelve. Get on the scale and if you can watch people's body language when they weigh themselves everything you need to know about about the scale and about women believe about themselves. I watched one woman come back twice now. She probably went to P. P. Timid our hair tie dollar underwear it makes me wanna sit her down and like take her face hands nicely and say that is literally just it. All that tells you about your numerical relationship with gravity and that's it it's all it's telling you it's not telling you anything else about who you are and and I think that's where I want to start the conversation with women. Is You know I know that there's so much when it comes to the body positive movement which really started honestly kind of like you were talking about about the way people are treated us fat as a descriptive liked to be clear. I worked really hard my house to about the fact that it's a nate. It's a neutral descriptive. It's been to hurt people but it. It refers to tissue on my body. That's it body. Positively started as a like a movement around around equal rights about dignity and human. It was a it was a social justice movement in the beginning it's since gotten co-opted branded in all of those things but really it was about fat. People particularly women particularly fat. Lgbtq women showing up saying this. You know that intersectional feminism I need. I'm going to take up space here. I'm tired of being told to shrink. You know so. I think that we can continue the conversation understanding. That's where it started and enlisting all of us because to your point regardless of body size. I've yet to meet a woman who doesn't have a similar story regard modernize so when it's all of us that tells me were like saturated in some bullshit soup that's telling us lies it's got to be can't be all of us right like all different bodies it cannot be all of us I just saw this. I just saw this article on medium the other day and it made me so angry and it was thin person who was like. Why don't you ask the skinny person? And it was basically like how she would not to a lunch and everyone was talking about weight and they wouldn't ask her and she was just like I have to work hard to maintain my weight and I was just like bitch please like like it was just like she. You know I was like you basically just did that. Remember that slim fast commercial radio dollar used to joke about it. She'll have a Have Shaken the morning shake lunch then. A sensible dinner and she was like if I could. If I could have a sensible dinner I would need your stupid slim fast and it was like. That's like if anyone could do what you're doing skinny bitch then we be overweight that's you. It's your turn to talk. That's what I felt like that. It's now your turn to talk you don't you don't struggle sorry. Ps sorry one of the things. I've discovered because people when you really start to say I'm GONNA take up space in in this fat body. People have a lot to say about that it. I mean you know the whole Lizardo. Jillian Michaels sang that. That's a case in point. You know people go after Liz. Oh so hard. And because she dares to show her biology itself. And she's I mean did she dares to claim sexuality and Ashley and and we're going to challenge her fitness level. I'm sorry have you watched you're on stage like dances and plays a classical flute. Most of us would follow over in. I like to challenge physical health. Also it's not your business not your besides Lee so one of the things I discovered though is that people particularly people in thin bodies who like what we would with people in the fat positive moons. Air Concern trolls. Like I'm really worried about your health. Yeah ultimately will the first answer to that. Is You know nothing about my health by looking at my body you actually know literally nothing about my overall health by looking at my body. But what when you really engage with those people who are viscerally full of hatred. I've seen it happen often. What what the source of that is is the person who is a thin whose given up eighty percent of their life to be in a thin body is pretty pissed that lives on stage seemingly enjoying her life in in a larger body. Give me that can't be fair. I gave up. All of this is yet to be thin. And now you're telling you're trying to shift the culture to say that we can belong. I am so get over it and have a cheeseburger. You're probably hungry. Yeah you're starving. Chicken bodies our beautiful new body. This was absolutely amazing. You'll have tell people like go through and tell everybody your podcast in your and where they can get through all of your stuff in your all your connections because people need to know you so The website is the beautiful project DOT com. It's beautiful with two. L's don't forget that it's an invitation to be full. We are on facebook under the same. Handle the beautiful project. The podcast is on pod. Bean and I tunes and spotify were also an instagram at the beautiful project. Also I gave. I had the opportunity of a Ted talk in March of last year and so the Tedtalk has called stripped. The Art of being seen is was a little intense spoiler alert. I take off my dress at the end on the Ted Stage night added. Yeah so that was a thing but that happened. That's real and it's on Youtube so that's really fun. Maybe we'll just happen to include that Lincoln. The she's sad about that. I I actually do want to invite people to that kind of freedom. So yeah that's that's where everybody can remind me. Wonderful has been great but thank you sources like his very tense but can also thank you. Yeah I feel like I've been I've been cl- Clinton I know I know. Thanks for having me. Ooh That was in tense. Right off. Good stuff could talk forever. I just love that talk. I mean it's just we're all obsessed with our bodies in about thinking about way and I just the idea that she was saying that when you're so focused on that that you become smaller somewhere else in your life. I thought that was really interesting. I've I've been thinking a lot about it since that interview so you agree with that now. No I don't know if I do fully. I agree that when you are obsessed then your smaller somewhere else in so many right when you're still being. I think I still believe that. I'm I'm looking at it through my personal viewpoint. Which isn't that like. I have a food addiction so I can't not manage my food because then my life gets out of Control. So that's where it that's where she loses me but I think that's particular to me right so I I know for me if I obsess over my body then. Everything is far yeah. I can't I can't stress enough except what it is. Yes but I can't stress enough though that for me. It can't be a diet. It has to be a food plan. It's like rules or a way of living versus a diet. As soon as I go to get crazy and obsessed and exactly what she's talking about. I agree with just a nuanced lewd. Plans diets are anything. Can't do it yet. I have so I just have to accept myself and yeah work out. Like a fiend then accept but if I start working out too much like her I start getting crazy too. So it's working out is my therapy so you know it's just kicks the well that's what makes except my body there anyway. Okay folks do. Let's keep this conversation going to join us on the social please. Yes that sounds so sad. Just please join Astros. Join our Patriot. Community at Patriot dot com slash over his talk. We got all kinds of extra content over there and this week. We're going have a video from Sarah little behind the scenes extra content. WanNa miss it. Also you can find us on over his talk on twitter. Ovaries underscore talk on instagram. And if these ovaries could talk on facebook and you can also join our community there and talk to other listeners which is always fun wrecked mythic. It's time Jimmy Goodbye. Takes over US say.