Episode #32: Articles of Interest
The we're making fun of the bbc which we used to be like their leader is four years old. I don't know where that sing song. That's it for now. Time will tell. That's where i'm mutating. The bbc early every a conversation. Time that and so much more coming right up on today's episode of the pods. You're listening to yet. Another riveting conversation on the pon spotter. You lucky dog. Have you Have you seen the number of podcasts. Out there okay. Don't don't even look. Just meet me here every monday off a brand new podcast for you to slip on triumph for you. Drive it off the lot and hopefully you find The compensation useful or entertaining. Hope it inspires you and if it does tell people to subscribe to our pod. Word of mouth really helps Visit the pods butter dot com and on facebook twitter and instagram at the pot spotter for extra content and info on upcoming shows. Thank you l. twitter real pleasure. I started screening hundreds of podcasts. You all have at least one item that article of clothing tuck deep in the closet. You'll absolutely never wear again get can't seem to throw away for many. It's a wedding dress for others. An old shirt. You met someone special in for me to t shirt with eagles shoulders that i wore once because i was ridiculed incessantly for the entire evening but i loved it and it remains because it serves as a record of a specific time and place and that's fashion is a record of what was fashionable to you and to society as whole a record of the fashion of the past. Two years will reveal the great. Pajama boom joggers. Lounge wear our king but if the roaring twenties of the previous century or any indication the next ten years we'll see a fashion transformation the likes of which we haven't seen in over a century coming off the heels of the previous pandemic dress has got shorter corsets discarded and evening was bedazzled with sequence to understand why we look at the historical context of the times. Not only was the spanish flu wrapping up but world war one had ended and more women than ever were entering the workforce. They saw a comfortable lifestyle and fashion. That reflected the ushering in of the new modern age. Why we wear the things we wear have deep roots in history. Fashion doesn't exist in a vacuum everything in the design. World has purpose and influence. at least. That's what i learned this week from avery. Truffle men host of the podcast articles of interest twelve part series about what we wear in why we wear it in each episode. Avery tackles the historical context behind everything from hawaiian shirts to pockets to your favorite pair of blue jeans each episode woven delicately into the next like the colorful tartan of scottish scottish kilt. Yes she she covers kilts to by the way articles of interest at face value is theme based storytelling. But as you examine the craftsmanship closer. You'll realize that each episode fits perfectly to create a one of a kind on samba. Remove any one episode in the entire outfit crumbles articles of interest was named the best podcast of the year by bbc curbed globe. Mail la new york magazine. This is too many. This is too many but listen. If you are still not convinced a subscribe. I suppose you can stick around for my chat with avery truffle. Man thank you for being here every and thank you for sharing the pod with us today are you. Oh my god. What a gorgeous introduction. Having such a bad day and i totally needed that that was beautiful. Thank you saw some sweet well. It's all from you. It's all it's everything i learned from week of binging your pot. I'm wearing a nice vest today and spirit of Spirit of your podcast. i hurt. I didn't even know that was the goodness. Why don't we start with an introduction though avery. How do you introduce yourself at fashion week. Oh god well. I my name is rachel man. I am a podcast. I'm currently at the cut. A new york magazine and for the last seven years of my life. I worked for the design and architecture. Podcast ninety nine percent invisible which is where i made. Articles of interest and Articles of interest is is your baby you wrote produced to the whole thing. Is that right. Yeah yeah it was really. I mean truly like a one man band. I mean i was very generously supported by my former boss. You know. I was more or less traveling around the world with a backpack in a microphone. Just talking to as many people as i possibly could. And then my. My friend and collaborator royal makes the music. And i would work with them on creating a soundtrack that fits and then i would place the music and i mean i had Definitely like the team at ninety nine percent invisible would lend their ears and give notes and help with mastering and mixing from sheriff jozef but other than that it was just like my child was totally my baby. How do you describe your baby to people who haven't yet listen to it. Well i always thought of it as a fashion show for non fashion people. Because i am not. I was not now. I am a fashion person. After doing me to of episodes before that i was not a fashion person and i think a lot of it came from working for ninety nine percent invisible which is all about the design and intention of built environments spent years learning about manhole covers and fire escapes and concrete. And just like the things. All around our world and i was like clothing is a part of this. It's not the separate zulu world. It's a choice. We're making every single day to think that clothing doesn't touch us or it's like fashion is not a part of our world is misogyny. Just not true. You know we all have to engage a bit even the people who don't think they do. Even the people like me who are like no. I'm just going to throw in henley doesn't matter no i. I'm actually making a conscious decision. I'm thinking about it. That was made by someone. It was deliberate totally even as you said. Yeah like when you when. You're just gonna wear my pajamas today. I'm just gonna wear my sweats today. That's a choice he made you know every not making a choice. It's all fashion. Yeah people don't realize it's fantasy is always this thing that you have to work extra hard silk. No-one dresses like a king anymore. How you make money doesn't really make money. loves there. Lots of things that we take for granted that would have considered luxuries destined to be on the show in one form or other. We were gonna have you on either. You're you're involved in so many podcasts. We love nice try here also love your utopia folks check that out. Also but i mean ninety nine percent visible like you said it's an institution i top. That's royalty these parts so just Being associated with the is obviously awesome. What did roman mars. What does he promote that. That has created influence. Some of the best podcasts that we have out there. I don't even know where to begin with. I mean he taught me everything but he took me under his wing as a twenty two year old intern and he literally kick started my career. Someone asked me like what's lesson you learn from roman mars. I was like a lesson. I don't know i everything i know. I know from him. But i think fundamentally the reason he's impacted so many people i think it really comes down to respect. He really respects the listener. He's like you are smart. You can handle this. I'm not gonna dumb this down for you. You're you're roman really was one of the pioneers of podcasting that he was like you selected this program. You want to be here. And i'm going to talk to you like you chose like you chose this. You wanna get nerdy like we're gonna get nerdy. But i think roman was one of the first people to really talk to Extremely niche academics and architects and designers. Like a human and he always talked about the show is like a design column is like it's very important that we also have an opinion in a perspective facts and i think that also shaped a lot of the way i make stories and along the way many other people kind of in the children of roman mars category make stories. I want to play The vivienne westwood quote. That you play on your pod that led to you choosing this story and telling the story vivienne. Westwood is one of the most famous clothing designers in the world. Now i mean she's huge. She doesn't have the time to speak to me for this podcast but she is the reason why i wanted to talk about clothing because in two thousand nine i heard her say this thing to the new york times and i haven't been able to stop thinking about it since the paradox is that people think that if they wear something simple a non saying that somehow they themselves will emerge all the more stunning beautiful from it. It's not true it might be true. No not not even true of christy turlington. No no. I don't want to seek christy turlington annotation and jeans. She can. why not. If you're born. Look somebody free of beauty. Why not look like a goddess. Why not every. Where were you when you heard that quote and why did it let you on fire. Oh that's a great question. It's a long answer. But i'll condense down conversations here. You're okay harry. We editors that was from an exhibit at the de young museum in san francisco. And my my aunt. My grandmother lived in san francisco and i grew up going there just like every summer. Go visit my my aunt and my grandma. I would go to thrift stores on haight street and they had these incredible ridiculous thrift stores. Where i i mean. I dressed like a freak. I went to an extremely preppy private school for high school. And i don't even know what force of nature like compelled me to do this. I think i felt so weird. And i felt so like i didn't belong that i would spend the summers in these breaks in san francisco and i would go thrift shopping and i would come back with just like frilly Victorian blouses pucci esque mini dresses. Checkered pants just like absurd ridiculous outfits. And i was always the highlight. I didn't have many friends in high school and so a huge part of my life was like planning my outfits and like the teachers loved me but students definitely like it did not win me many friends among my my colleagues but i don't know why i felt. This need to like do that. And then when i went to college i kept dressing up in this way. I went to an extremely extremely radical liberal arts school where everyone was kind of trying to dress In an interesting way you have years of experience on him. I had years experience. And also i think i was just a little too much. You said no your other friends were were inspire egging this on. That was a one upsmanship just with yourself to one of the experts that i talked to in season two articles of interest. Derek guy. he's incredible is what my favorite journalists he said. This beautiful thing that was like clothing exists in context right and like harry styles can wear a purple feather boa on a stage but if you wear a purple feather boa on the street. People don't know what to make of. It doesn't have the accurate context. You know if you wear a cowboy boot. You're referencing something right. You're like. I have taken this western style and now it's this. You're speaking a language. The metaphor there guy made that i thought was so beautiful as he was like. When you're making an outfit you're making a sentence and it has to make grammatical sense if you're making a statement just to make it. It's almost like the noam. Chomsky idea that you can craft a sentence that is grammatically correct but doesn't have any meaning like colorless green ideas sleep furiously and so i was wearing these outfits that were just kind of loud and the message sending before in my old contacts was just like i'm different but now in this society where everyone was trying to communicate with each other in different ways. I was just yelling. Colorless green ideas sleep furiously. I wasn't in tune and alienated people. And i think it made the idea around campus of just like who does she think she is and so. I had this moment where i was like. Oh my god. I just have to. You know my clothes are hiding me. And then i'm one of my trips to san francisco. I went to the museum and there was this retrospective of the work of vivian westwood. Who had never heard of. But then when i went to this exhibit. That's what i learned to vivienne. Westwood was and learned that she had designed punk that someone had to design. It wasn't just some grassroots movement. That happened you know someone made made this happen. Conscientiously and that was sort of the seed of articles of interest. But what. she said. They're really spoke to me. Which is one of the things that's fascinating. About clothing it is truly the membrane between our interior selves. And our extra yourselves like that is what we are navigating when we decide what to wear everyday plants the seed way back then of articles of interest Which sends you on this. Twelve part series twelve journey. That begins With one of the episode. That i can't get out of my head that i've been thinking about constantly because i have a fourteen month old and i spend a lotta time playgrounds and around kids and seeing kids fashion and so like i just so annoying like with other parents of like you know i know i. That bo is unsure. And i know that bright star is on that shirt in kids clothing Learn so much But the thing that blew my mind was just the great lengths manufacturers go to to make kids clothing Safe and make sure that kids don't sleep in clothing because if they sleep in the clothing then it's a hazard potentially which means that kids clothing if it's not sleepwear has to go through great pains to prove that it's not sleepwear so that they don't have to meet all those flammability in size requirements. So let's say you're trying to design kids clothes that are not for sleeping. They can't have pictures of anything that could be interpreted as sleepy like what is pictured on it as it sleeping animals as it is sleepy. Seen that you feel sleepy if it makes you feel sleepy. Sleepwear no images of the moon no images of stars and no clouds like a cloud. Probably wouldn't work your legal department at your company like you can't do that because that makes me feel like sleeping. Donor has his awesome onesie. That i love on her. She looked so good in this big bright goofy heart like a giant glowing in the center. I'm like why do why is that. Everything else was great about this. And why that and now i understand it saying don't sleep in this because i did not make it safe for a fire base. That is mind blowing it and i. There's a reason cia on kids clothes. What else was exciting for you. About kids clothes and diving into that topic. You know the interesting thing about it is like all the topics sort of interconnect these weird ways once. You really start to think about them. So there's another episode that did about pockets and like why women's clothes have no pockets and Why men's clothes have such big and plentiful pockets and in response to that. A lot of people like my baby's clothes have pockets. So it's like well. This is why it's to prove that it's day wear like your kid doesn't own that fit in their pockets like it's it's all this elaborate risk to be like. Oh don't sleep in it this day. Wear so like once you start once you have this lens of like. They need to show that this is not for sleeping and that this is for the day. It gives you this lens where you can look at kids clothes and just understand. Suddenly you can start a designer. It'd be like that's why other parents they don't care that you have this knowledge by the way. Oh yeah that lapel daywear. That's day where okay. Get away from me. Weirdo still excited to know that new knowledge. I'm still happy to have you know you mentioned kids. Were led to pockets pockets. Lou leads you to kill to tartan. I that timeline was that did you have a a blueprint laid out for that or were you. Did you start with kids. Wear and that led to. Oh that's interesting. i should go there. I should go here. Was it The did the story unravel or did you have the sort of mockup of the dress made. And he's a lot clothing metaphors. Yes their inevitable. At the same time together expired. Most of them are used used up my budget. Five percent more. no no. let's keep them coming. Definitely began with kids clothes and that was like my little pilot that i've been thinking of for a long long. I've been slowly percolating. That story idea. I mean even before i got the green light to go ahead and make the serious. I found with most of my stories. The way that i go about it when i have something that makes me curious. I just start talking about it and talking about it with people. Party is talking about it. With friends and little pieces start to come out of the woodwork. and they coalesce and so it sort of started with kids clothes. And i was like oh this is a great idea for a series like talk to someone who has a question and a problem. Talk to manufacturer talked to a historian to really get to every angle of this garment. And that's when i started thinking of like what else am i curious with. And that's why so many of the episodes begin with a friend of mine because these were people who at least have been thinking about these questions and talking about them with me for a long time like sarah. Who started the hawaiian shirt story. She wrote this article very like bombastic article for k. Q. e. d. about like. We should abolish are she wrote it. S moma was like we should abolish the tiki bar and it became this huge scandal. And i wonder how it feels about hawaiian shirts and as her about that and my friend peers. Who started the pocket story like he had been thinking about pockets forever as i say in the in the series there was this one night in college where i lent him address and it didn't have pockets and he was so unused to not having pockets. He just didn't know what to do with his keys. He got locked out of our dorm to these all these origins and like my friend anna who started the plaid story she was like our plaid slick. A gay thing is that can you tell someone's gay if they're wearing plaid like all of these questions have been ideas that i've been thinking about with my friends for a long time so i mean the kids first and then i made the rest of them all simultaneously and i had this studio in east oakland that i rented that was literally the size of a closet and i painted the wall with chalkboard paint and they did this totally like a beautiful mind thing laying them out thing totally killer me. My god being like. I really wanted to make sure. They all connected. I really wanted there to be links for all them. I worked very hard when people very clear because it plays like a scavenger hunt the end of episode like we talk On the show. Tyra people to this episode of that episode. But you should definitely start. It's where one with this one. It is not like other podcasts. It plays like at the end of one. There's a clue for the next and it's like you have to conquer one episode before you can move onto the next and it's just It's exciting to listen in that way. Because i don't remember it being done like that before. Thank you so much for saying that. You mentioned hawaiian shirts. And that was definitely one article of interest that i was like. I didn't know i was interested in this until you made it interesting. We introduce the idea human resources departments that you could let your workers come to work dressed one day a week in something a little bit. More casual dockers. For instance and with dockers levi's really created the concept of business casual wear which they then sold to businesses. We took the idea to human resources departments. In fact we created a kit how to put casual business wear to work and we sent thousands around to hr departments and in it included a guide to what was appropriate. Wear and in this guy that we're looking at. Here's a man dressed in his docker slacks and a caller shirts and other clothing that he could wear aloha friday came from hawaii. But casual friday came from levi strauss and company. Can you explain that link from aloha friday to to to casual fridays for. Haven't heard this before. Because i was blown away by the fact that i'm going to do a good job anymore. Honestly i haven't listened to the series and so long and listening to me now. Like gasping as the levi strauss historian like shows me this pamphlet. I'm like wow. I love that enthusiasm. That's the thing we love about your podcasts. I often interview people. Who are there. are two podcasts. There are hosts and then there are just there are people who live it and it is clear that you live your your podcast. I love when we love when you are when you were blown away by something but basically we learned up. I'll tell you. Let me tell you about your podcast for you know on fridays. In hawaii people People would wear. Aloha shirts and aloha shirts have significant about where they are what they're located and there would be birds and plants and things on their shirt that were specific to a time and place where they lived at had history and and because dockers was on the west coast and they would vacation. There are a lot they would see. That people were wearing hawaiian shirts on fridays. And then dockers like implemented this by like attacking. Hr like different corporate offices and saying let's stress. Everyone down in america on fridays as a way to sell more casual clothing because they just wanted to sell more clothes which is another has another level of insidiousness to it right. It's like oh you don't need to give your employees more benefits or eternity. Leave or anything you let them dress down. They love that shit. We're coming for your casual friday. Well it was nice to jog your memory there and see what you were able to recall from your own podcast. It gives me hope for our next segment Very popular game that we play here. Everyone's talking about it sweeping the nation. How well do you know your pod every truffle. I'm gonna ask you three questions about your podcast if you answer two out of three correctly this articles of interest clipboard which was sent to me. It's very oh it's very tim. Gunn this clipboard. Of articles of interest will make it on the pod wall of swag behind me three questions. Are you ready for. How well do you know your pod. Okay why do female. Police officers wear men's uniforms and not female uniforms. That pockets are too. Small pockets are too small listen. Are you ready for this. I'm ready for this. The women were really because of pocket or too small wins. Wait really but there is a women's that they make. But i'm carry them over here but traditionally they use the men's the pockets are bigger and they can put things on. The women's are smaller which i can show you won't fit. That's fascinating now. You have something to blog about. I'll give you something blog about had to play. I knew it was a softball player. It's the best you're so excited and this first of all like come on how it's amazing you're doing a piece. You're you're breaking. Down atop the topic of gender inequality history of pockets and in the process. You being condescended by some guy at a uniform store It is brilliant There is one of my favorite podcasts. that i talk lot about a lot is malcolm glad wells Revisionist history where he he has an episode paraplegics which all by among other people considered one of the best podcast episodes ever where he introduces an idea. And then he catches sean. What the white stripes. Name jack He catches jack white like doing the thing that he just explained. And like this is very similar moment for me of your podcast episode. Three in pockets But don't start there. Start at one. You'll get to three. You'll get to pockets. Learn about pockets giving me so much life. I think that's one though. You gotta get to more and these are not softball's okay right hit me name to three synthetic fibres you mentioned episode five blue jeans. That are found in denim today. Oh lycra My god i'm forgetting the technical terms for all the forms of plastic that are in jeans. We'll tell you have like you need one more okay Lycra and i don't know that's the whole thing with With the bluejeans they're like synthetic indigo synthetic cotton with stretch like. I don't even remember. The name of denham. Increasingly has synthetic fibers in is not cotton anymore like growth. Uh nylon polyester goes by many names. But let's call it what it is. It's plastic. this is as much applicable to denham. As any other part of the industry. Emma mcclendon says we are at an unprecedented phase including history. We've never had so many clothes available with so much plastic in them so much plastic in jeans. I was looking for nylon polyester. But now that i listened to those are you're saying there's synonymous with plastic. So what's that. Yeah question bad question. It's a great question. What is happening here like what is going to happen to jeans. What is going to happen to arjun. And why should everyone only one pair of jeans man. I mean the thing about jeans right as we think of them as hard wearing all american all terrain vehicle things and they're designed and they were once upon a time they totally were. They were really sturdy. You could wear them for life. You could share them with other people. But now i mean those were like to wear in. We were like these like these are stiffen they hurt and so then denim companies started to make genes that are already soft already stretchy already worn in to give us the look of hard wearing authentic all-terrain close but they're not actually they're actually extremely cheap and they're going to. I think the expert in the episode calls them with for the tries to like return. Start your plastic will weep. Virtually all of us off gas things like the stretch. Though i like when it's claiming so what do i do. What do i do. I have to just make sure my jeans plastic honestly. I tried to wear in raw denim jeans after this like jeans without any plastic. Unlike definitely it sucked in the beginning but after two months of wearing them but now they feel like normal genes like so denim companies are just trying to save you that initial discomfort. But they're totally jeans without stretch are fine would use. What's your method. Get some stones or just watched them a bunch just biked everywhere just like go. Buy real detriment. Biking forget the plastic stuff. All right you got one and a half you get this. Last one and articles of interest going up pod wall what is spread. it secure split sandra. I love this word. A practiced studied carelessness. We see exhibited in menswear. Listen spread satura. Italian go figure means studied carelessness. It's as concept that you're not supposed to look like you put a lot of effort into the way you dress even though you probably did because it's not cool for men to care about how they look that's the dispatch sure of life. You know you see a guy and you say well the buttons of his shirt on buttoned. He knows that he knows that you're not telling him anything. This totally helps me. Explain why i try on like four or five different items before i wear something but i don't really want anyone to not don't look at me. Don't notice me. But i wanna look good for you. What is that. What's wrong with my brain. What's wrong with people reminds me of like kids. I knew at school who had like pretend. They didn't study they'd be like. Oh i'm naturally just smart you know like putting in the work is Degrade it you know. It's better to be like. Oh i'm just. I didn't even try. It was born. That naturally look amazing. It's part of maybe my favorite episode the beau brummel episode in the beau brummel episode suits and menswear. We learned the historical context of behind the men's suit. Men's fashion in general and all dates back to this guy right who is The founding of the suit as we know it today and he was a paring. Down of getting rid of embroidery. Getting rid of all the bells and whistles from men's fashion and it has persisted to you know two hundred three hundred years later to like menswear as we know you go to. The oscars are in one thing. Women variety collar shapes different sizes. But we've mentioned aware that boring old suit something that's actually interesting about the beau brummel story. That didn't make the cut that i've been thinking about a lot. Is that bo brummel Was as you know he was. The original dandy was very dashing and very handsome and everyone wanted to be like him and copy him and then he ended up dying of syphilis. Which is a horrible scary way to die actually a portrait of dorian gray was written about bo- brummel as everyone saw this. This brilliant witty beautiful mountains sort of waste away before their eyes. And i mean syphilis is truly like zombie disease like your limbs fall off you go stark raving mad and then you die good. No good brummel was among a cohort of extremely famous powerful admired men who all died of syphilis and created this widespread panic this widespread fear. That is not dissimilar to the aids crisis and not the similar to what we're seeing now with the krona virus because we think of the victorian era a super buttoned. Up like super repressed. Everyone was sort of sending these koi messages to each other and wearing gloves and like dancing. Fire parts each other flowers. So much of it was because they were scared of getting syphilis. It was like disease based culture and the red the the the the regency period before it was absolutely debauched but completely totally debauched and so it will be interesting in cultural memory when we all emerged from this to see how we dress. We i to see if there will be a new sort of yes. People are saying it might be a new nineteen twenties. But i reckon it also might be a new sort of like age of propriety new age of conservatism. maybe after some like initial Satiafaction interesting to see how these diseases change how public health. Crises changed fashion. Yeah after the nineteen twenties. The veil was like hanging around for a while that was fashionable. The veil like made its way in and so to your point like the mask is probably here right like some version of the mask is just gonna be. Get a get a super fashionable cutesy one. Because it's going to be around or some version of it will be here and did a story for ninety nine percent invisible in taiwan a long time ago and everyone was just wearing masks not just casually. I was there with a friend who who has been have been living in taiwan for a while and she was like people. Just wear masks. I mean yeah sure it keeps you healthier but it's also in the same way that like when you don't really wanna talk to anyone and you put on headphones that maybe don't even have anything playing or you're just wearing sunglasses to be like. I'm not feeling it today. The mask has also been a cultural shorthand especially for women. You don't wanna get harassed on the train to just be like. Don't fuck with me. I can't today to just be like don't don't and i can definitely see the masks sticking around as a cultural. It's actually a nice thing to be able to have. I'm not in the mood in me. Love love love running in it too. Good little filter filtration warm. I can use it. Yeah yeah yeah it's good. It's good are you in the camp that fashion will do you think it gets more conservative. Truly i just think people are going to be more okay with like joggers and underwear. But i think the other thing that i realized that making a series as that like the rules of fashion weren't made the way i thought they were made. You know. I thought they were made by these sort of like miranda priestly esque figures sitting in the towers at vogue being like and now thou shalt not mix brown and black and everyone would be like. Oh my god yes of course yes. That's what how but that isn't. Fashion is the feeling when you look at your closet. And you're like i have nothing to wear. That's the feeling when you're like this doesn't fit my melia. This doesn't fit my mood. My body has changed. I have aged. I have new ideas. that's fashion. But i think the role of the gatekeepers and the influencers editors has always been less significant than we think. I think what we've learned. Is these come from larger changes in economics in gender in Politics like this is what changes fashion fashion is a metric of everything else. That's happening in our world. I guess what you're saying that whatever it is it will be linked to a specific thing like white shoes after labor day was a totem of fashion but it also had historical context that like whatever it is it will. It won't just come out of nowhere to your. Your aunt cast. It doesn't come out of nowhere. It's going to be like usually these things aren't even put into words like the idea of just like we just don't do that like you don't know what the you can't necessarily put into words but you know that there are rules we're gonna take a quick break. We'll be right back. You wouldn't buy a car without driving it or go on a date or two before marrying someone. So why not join me every monday and sample podcast or two before you make it official and add it to your library commitment free no strings attached just you me and the host of an exciting new podcast if you haven't already please Leave review on itunes. Check out our adorable website at the pot spot dot com and tell fellow lovers of pods about what we're doing here. Were playing the field. Were listening to everything. We are potty. Amorous baby people are gonna have a lot of questions coming out of this pandemic and coming out of the great pajama trend. And i feel like. I need to mind the resource of ab trauman right now to help folks with whatever. The next wave of fashion is with maybe a little rapid fire fashion question coming at you. Are you ready for rapid fire fashion questions to help folks thawing out after the great pandemic pajama trend. I'll try we'll see what happens. What's your favorite article of clothing. That you My old shirt that have had since i was a baby. It's from the tv. Show the nineteen sixties. tv show. The prisoner the prisoner was was that was that. Was that a kid show. You're not it's it's the weirdest dress there. Okay all right now to answer. No now now. It's super soft. Because i've been wearing it thirty years denim jeans I'm not making this. I'm talking over the rapid fire. All right i'm sorry Crocs ever acceptable if you are over seven years old and not a nurse practitioner. i sure yeah definitely. What's one trend. You wish would go away. I don't actually have a lot of opinions on this. Because i'm just kind of fascinated by all of it. I think every trend that comes up. It's just like Where did that come from. I think it's so interesting when something verbals up and you get to see where it comes from. Just want to know why like why. What is the why cargo. Pant cargo pants clearly are born out of us now. Carrying around pagers and cell phones and more things more items. Then what's one weird clothing obsession or e centrisly. You've never told anyone. And while i think about it. I'll just tell you our producer One of our producers was really excited to talk about his strange clothing affliction where he goes on vacation. Let's going for for three days just to pack three sox and so he has to say the word sox three times one for every day that he's going away and in addition he has to touch that part of his body as he says the word suck suck suck so that i make sure that he packs each article of clothing specifically. Do you have any word clothing. He's interested. He's wow no nothing. I mean nothing like that i think. That's you're you're strange. Jim that's really amazing. Jim i i yeah. I guess my weird supervision closes like only in the pandemic have. I bought clothes on the internet. Very rarely do that. I like to thrift. The weird superstition. I have is when i go into a thrift and i don't just go to any third store i find like i have to be moved by the spirit. I very rarely like make a plan to go to a thrift store. Usually just kind of find myself there. And when i'm find myself in a thrift store i'm like i'm like i have been brought here for a reason there's like a garment that whose path i was meant to cross and i'm not gonna stop looking until i find it like one time i was. I was reporting a story for ninety nine percent visible. And i was in finland on i was on this. Northernmost town in the winter was freezing. And there's basement thrift store near my hostile that i wandered into and it was just like huge cavernous and cold and they didn't seem to be much on their everything looked like cheapie and not quite my style but i i have been brought here for a reason. Have to find like there's something here for me. There was. I was called to the location for reason and i think i like wandered around in the same circles for really longtime just like over and over again combing through all the same racks and i eventually found this vintage marimekko coat that i wear all the time. I still wear it now. It was like meant to be like there are some closer. You're like oh you're going to be on my life journey with like you are my skin protection and you will serve me well and you're gonna get yourself into my story. That is a code when people are like. Hey nice and i wear a jacket liner. I usually wear like under whatever jacket i'm wearing and people are like. Hey nice jacket liner. I get a lot of compliments on it and i always wanted to tell them like this weird story about like how it came into my life. But it's kind of like weird convoluted. Well it's good to listen to because feel like right now. we're all just like clicking around amazon. Okay that's five stars thousand reviews check. Put it in the cart. I feel like we can get a little more of that in there. A little more thoughtfulness into each article that we purchase online testing is great. I'm a huge. What what what are some resources for online thrifty. Where do you use ebay at see. I love the real real. Real real is like a little expensive but that's always been my thing like if you find a look that he likes on instagram or even while you're scrolling around on a shopping website. I always just try to search for similar items used or vintage and usually i find like stranger weirder staff from like the era that that new garment is actually copying so. I think it's a better way to. I mean not only. Is it more sustainable to by us. But i think you end up finding like more interesting. stranger stuff. One fashionable people in my life. I think there are people that do their thing like they have their thing or there are people who keep up with the current trends of those two kind of falls in the fashionable people. Kind of fall into those two things. How would you promote fashion for someone. Like i dunno like my dad loves tommy. Bahama shirts you know. And he just that's fashionable for him and it works for the time and place the exists in with his other friends that were tommy bahama shirts and he has racks of them yet. And i can't try to convince him that it is not fashion because it is it's it makes that's about it. Yeah earful is not the way into talking to people about fashion. You who say that. They're not fashionable. Is like that is fashioned thing that you cultivate and you care about. That's totally fashion. I mean i think if there's thought behind it it's fashion the thing that's hard for me like my dad will go to coles and just buy a bunch of shirts and bulk. I want to be like father your father. Did you hear about my shirt story listening. So i feel like that those are the moments are. I'm like i wish we're way. I make comparison all the time clothing. What we put on our bodies not dissimilar to what we put in our bodies which is not to say that. I think everyone should like be a foodie. But i think it's important to like have opinions about your tastes and why you eat what you eat and to have ideas of like do you care if it's sustainable. Do you care if it's organic. Do you not care if it's sustainable or you know like i think having opinions about how you dress is just as important. It is as important as having opinions about what you what you eat. What and how you eat from wearing a vest for this interview. I look good invests and i have this like fantasy about you. Know being a vest guy. And i have fest for every occasion but i only own this one vest and i don't know why i don't just become that thing that i like. I don't know why i don't do that. But there's something. And i don't know there's something about it's not it's not encouraged. There's something about putting myself out there. That is scary and that like. I just don't want everyone looking at me. Judging me what is the hopefully like people are like. Hey look at you. You don't want to. But i think once you break past that point and people understand that you are someone who like dresses. You know who gives a shit about what they wear. Then you're free. Bend your often. You can start wearing hats. You could start wearing ties like i think once you i remember this so distinctly like when i took like a couple times of people being like hey look at you dressing up and it was like embarrassing and it made me uncomfortable and i didn't like it but then people get over it and then you're free then you then the whole world opens up to you and you can wear fucking anything. It's awesome so. I think that's the thing i'm trying to like. Come come over the divide from over but you get through that and then the world's your and it's a beautiful fund exciting world. I think to your point on on your pond. You talk about how fashion has been reserved not reserved but moved forward by folks are marginalized by people. That don't have a voice. Don't feel like they have a voice but at the same time you want to encourage every everyone even. If you don't feel marshall. I think maybe there's the disconnect for me they're like i don't i feel like i have freedom of self expression and so maybe that's why i've never taken a huge interest in in in in in men's fashion and clothing or something like that like there seems to be Resistance for you know. A certain people just express themselves through fashion because they don't have a need to. I'm really glad you brought that up. Because that is a manifestation of privilege to say like. I don't have to our exists and other ways like i just wear gray all day and i think part of a way we can learn to listen to each other is to like if we're talking about clothing as a sentence. That's a really good way to hear the people around you to be able to read what they are what they are trying to say on their bodies and i think the best way that you can become literate in a language is by learning it yourself. I think we all need to all need to understand what it means to be vulnerable to put yourself out there to take to take a risk to try something new and not sort of fall into that sacred privilege. Bastion of whiteness of heterosexuality. I think this is not to say go appropriate other cultures. I think this is all way of finding find what makes you happy like be guy. Best guy like mars uses pocket squares. You mentioned guess. Aww he's very good at it. We're not in the rapid fire section anymore. We've just but my last question was do you have a ruben mars impersonation most iconic voice in podcasting next ira glass i feel like my whole. Life is a roman martyr imitating roman mars. Like most of the time. Except i'm a little unlike an over enthused lady. Roman mars person wants me. Although i can do roman mars impersonation of the bbc which we used to do all the time he would always say. We were making fun of the bbc which we used to do a lot to be like their leader is for years. Though i don't know where that came from. Let's sing song. That is yeah. that's it better now. Time will tell go. Hi go and you can be. Abc broadcaster that's around mutating the bbc. Where every this has been conversation time. Working i do ask everyone before they go for your Piece of audio. You'd like inducted into the podcast hall of fame. From articles of interest people attend the podcast fame. One bit of audio will play as they approach the articles of interest kiosk. Sarah moment sound anything. You'd like i mean the pockets. One is kind of the classic one that everyone plays but the one that i feel that that i like pat myself on the back of like good like that was a little journalist. You what you did right. There is when i did a story about diamonds. I went to the diamond district and tried to sell a lab grown diamond and everyone advised me not to do it. They're like it's a waste of your time you know. Don't do it or it could get you into legal trouble and basically just turned out these diamonds sellers. I mean. I brought a pair of earrings. Diamond earrings grown in a lab. And everyone who. I brought them to test them both and said that one was quote unquote real as in like a a mind diamond and the other was fake. Like what is our notion of fashion and the value. We literally ascribe to the thing that has just made up. Both jewelers told me that one erin was quote unquote real and the other was lab-grown. One diamond cellar. The diamond for between five hundred two thousand dollars dollars. Nothing and then the other one you told price what's really low price for that one hundred years not big here that but he said the lab grown diamond would only be worth about one hundred dollars so one earring was supposedly worth ten times more than the other and again. I can't emphasize that. This pair of earrings came from the same laboratory. Anything you're posting at least six or seven hundred podcasts. I currently hosts the podcast of the which is definitely a departure. it's definitely not like talking to nerds about many things. It's definitely more about like talking about the way we live now. And it's kind of a. It's kind of become this quarantine diary but just working episode right now with jonathan van ness asking them about how to be nice in the face of what feels like a really cruel world when we all live on the internet scoop here. Little a podcast tip. A nice try is coming back and eventually we haven't started yet but we will start it soon. Yeah so keep. Your eyes peeled. Tonight's try waivers. No one listened to the last five minutes of any podcasts. You know this because you podcast quite often by now. Everyone is finished what they were doing. multitasking listening. And so no one's here just the two of us and so you could talk about whatever you'd like it off your chest It is the last five minutes and So i use this time to You know tell off former boss former lover or Just vent about life in general. And i just want to say that i got my second dose. Oh boy i'm awful. It was great little arm. Sore Chills the next day. Oh some I got that. Madonna that good dern stuff but it feels really good after the first vacs i was so you i i will warn people you get like you get. Tell exuberant like you're just so relieved. And like i had this weird crazy facts. Energy of like hope and optimism hurting my back like overdoing it. Running exercising miserable miserable experience miserable week. Second second time. Second shot you're just gonna feel sick kinda out of it That's that's the that's my. That's my take on the to shot experience. But i'm so excited coming back close. We're coming back share anything you want. No one's here. No one's listening. I mean every day is the same in my world. I don't have a vaccine in my future. I don't know. I'm just super tired and super burns out. It's really hard. It's been really hard because as you can tell from. Articles of interest in which of my work involves like going out into the world and talking to people and touching objects like getting really excited and being cooped up and still having to make shows it feels like i'm like i'm sure you feel this to a degree to it. Just feels like i'm plowing field. It's dry like the field needs. I've hit my my breaking point and so it's it kind of beautiful and fascinating to hear. Because i haven't i. I'm very embarrassing to my old stories. I haven't listened articles of interest in hearing how excited enthusiastic. I was like. Oh not really relate to that person right now. It's been a long time. Since i've felt that person and hearing that you have your second. Shot is a nice reminder. Like oh maybe she'll come back like maybe the world will allow sorry. That's kind of dark. Now that's good the truth of that. This is not an easy on extroverts for sure Ordinarily i would be in that boat my wife and i are extroverts. We need to be out. We need to be with people. But we have a newborn. You know we have a four month. We were going to be we. Were going to be here anyway. We're going to be doing this no matter what so anytime to answer. I'm just like okay. All right come down thank you. Thank you for your candour. Thank you for all that. I learned so much today. I loved that. Read people's fashion that note like and i just wanna make sure that i don't interpret it incorrectly you don't mean like Vocally observed like hey and see you're doing their lapels in suits you you just mean out outerly absurd take note of well like okay so i'm looking at your outfit right now. Right you've got a vest which is kind of like traditionally something that you'd wear with a suit or something kind of fancy it's also something a little maybe old. It's a perfect mix of like folksy and fancy but you're pairing it with a shaman shirt unbuttoned which definitely brings a step to like folks here. Schambori is definitely like a working man's shirt at definitely says like we're here to do business the way that unbuttoned it and unrolled. It is like you know we're here to work but we're casual you know. It's all good. But i put this best on because i care and i've dressed up and this matters like that's a way of reading when i say read see the historical contexts of these items that you're paring together. You're mixing paint. I see the message that you are sending me. And i so appreciate it you know and i wouldn't say this to your face but that's when you see someone and they're wearing heels you're like oh you you dressed up look like it means it means it means a thing every everything you're wearing mean something Even if you can't necessarily vocalized or even if you don't know the history intuitively it means something to you. If i were to wear a leather jacket you'd be like oh i'll show you what i'm wearing. Now i'm wearing. This is extremely quarantine. I'm wearing short shorts. Sweatpants pockets the most upsetting but like so that's like a nod to like punk and fetish and yet it's paired with like something casual on the on the bottom as well. Okay yeah so like everything because everything exists. It's almost like when you listen to music. And you're like oh that's kind of pop influenced kind of country influence like you can understand everything in. Its context play with pain. And don't be afraid to play with paints like you have to dress. You have to dress. Thank you so much so much. This is so much fun. I get such a lift from these. And from great podcast. Thank you for sharon kerr bain. We're always looking for new suggestions on fresh batch of pods. Please tell me what you're listening to. And tell me what hosts you'd like to hear from via the pot spot dot com or facebook or twitter instagram at the pods bonner. Thank you this has been zach pod or is created by the price brothers produced by radio associate producer tori atoms in his recorded and produced a baker sound in philadelphia.