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The Lightning Round Podcast: Chargers vs. Browns - Is Melvin Gordon a Top 10 running back?


Regard. On. So why they fold. This is the lightning round podcasts with your host Garrett sixty and Jamie voile charges go. Welcome to e one sixty light round podcast. I am Garrett sixty which is at Garissa St. on Twitter and you can follow Jamie and the podcast at lightning underscore around and charged one three in a row coming off an impressive road win in Cleveland. We'll talk about some important storylines but we're just going to go ahead and jump into today. We've got our first question via phone call from front, Alfred guy, Alfred from Las Vegas, Nevada per pay. Thank you for all that you guys. You have been amazing podcast. Great in on everything chug is related, and it is the highlight of my Tuesday noon, lunchtime, as it helps me my work day and I was look for to it every week. Have a wig question for you guys, which team you guys prefer to watch the first one year? Two years of Mike McCoy era where it feels like the chargers can beat any team, but loose Tenny team. I'm the had notable wins against Seattle, Cincinnati in the playoff when he was in the feed it at home or do you enjoy the year one year two type of chargers where it feels like we actually be teens were supposed to be even when he by multiple scores, but we seem to underperform or maybe just perform how are supposed to get better teams that make you. So I guess if I choose between watching the the early part of Mike McCoy when they were beating good teams in struggling with bad teams and the early part of Anthony Lynn, where they're beating bad teams struggling with good teams. I don't know. It's going to sound weird, but I just I think I prefer the Anthony Lynn because I'd rather that they be. Teams are supposed to be. I know you don't get the exciting wins over Seattle to go in that route. But I feel like if you are being teams you're supposed to beat, that means you're consistently doing the things that you need to do to win games, and that will eventually lead towards winning games against good teams. So I think for for my for my taste, I'd go with early Anthony Len, even in spite of, you know, some of the coaching flaws and some of the struggles they've had against good teams. I like seeing them blow out teams like the Rams and the raiders and take care of business when they're supposed to the Browns and the raiders. Oh. I met the Browns. Yeah, because I think that that will eventually build towards beating better teams as they continue to be put processes in place and do the things you need to do, win those games. I would say that in two thousand thirteen you know, putting aside the fact that they back in the playoffs that year and you know they're playing against b squad and Kansas City. But I thought in two thousand thirteen in their best day, they were no way shape or form getting out of that AFC divisional playoff round where they had to play either the New England Patriots that year or the Denver Broncos without defense and Peyton Manning, I thought in no, on their best day, they had no chance beating Cincinnati was an added bonus. That was great, but I just didn't think they were talented enough this current team on their best day, I think, has a chance. And while it's still not perfect. And like you talked about some of the bumps along the way. From this coaching staff, I still think it's better coached under Anthony Lynn, and I think it's more talented than the two thousand thirteen fourteen charges were. So I would choose this current team. Yeah, I always felt like when they when they beat when they beat Seattle or when they had that home with against Indy, or even when they beat Cincinnati in the playoffs that kind of like they were catching lightning in the bottle like everything had to go exactly right in all three phases of the game them to win a game, and they weren't really good enough to overcome mistakes. I think this team is more talented, like you mentioned, they're better coach. I think that as they build towards the latter part of the season, we're going to see that they are able to overcome mistakes. And in fact, they have been overcoming mistakes in their three game winning streak. So that kinda shows that you know, they have the talent overcome turnover or a big punt return or boneheaded penalty or a bad coaching decision, and that talent is showing out and they are overcoming those mistakes. And I prefer. That to the, we had a perfect game plan. Everything when exactly right. And we eat out three point win over good football team because they didn't execute on one play or it was really, really hot and San Diego and Seattle couldn't really deal with the heat. Yeah. So the next question is a big Twitter debate right now, and it comes from Quincy mentally enough. MG three is the goat. Hello, thanks for the podcast guys. Recently. There's been a Twitter debate on whether Melvin Gordon is a top ten running back. I'm curious to know where you guys stand on that. Thank you. So we have at times been critical Belva Gordon on this show. I think that tune has changed some degree over the last couple of years. And we have both come to the conclusion that he is for lack of a better turn, the Lynch pin of the offense. Everything runs better when things run through Melvin, whether it's the running game where the passing game both. And I would say, you know, if you're looking at top ten running backs, you know there's probably a first cut backs that you'd want over Melvin guys like on bell, Hezekiah Elliot, Todd, Gurley, Kareem hunt, and maybe some debate over somebody like Leshan McCoy or David Johnson on some levels. But I think Melvin is in that next cut that second tier of running backs and maybe starting to creep his way towards the bottom of the list of that first cut. So I'd say, you know if you're looking at top ten. Yeah, I think you could make an argument for top ten based on the way he's producing and the fact that they've actually got him in a role that better suits his skill set and they're not just trying to pound them up the middle two out of every three plays to quote unquote, get the running game going. I'd say, yeah, he's a top ten guy. You're probably looking at him in that, you know, seven, eight, nine, ten range somewhere in there, but I think he's earned that kind of recognition based on the way he's played, particularly the last two years. He's hold onto the ball more. He's running Hardee's become incredibly difficult to tackle at least Ticor is he still goes down on initial contact and open space runs to contact and open space. But yeah, I think you can say top ten. Yeah. And you know what? I think this is a very cool question. Because I like the fact that they're coming to us to decided to bait. And I think more people should do that. If you've got a big debate, we will give you the question. We got this. We're the person to give you the verdict on this. So I think the argument against Gordon being a top ten isn't about the production necessarily, but rather the process in which Gordon gets there. I think they're talking about a natural running back. Gordon gets the volume. He leaves yards on the field is the atop ten quarterback, or is he a top ten running back? I mean, he's top three in rushing yards. He's third in the league in rushing touchdowns, and I think he's thirteenth in attempts per game. So it's not getting a big volume, but not the most. You know, he's not top ten in that category, so obviously being productive. So if the question is, is Melman Gordon a top ten running back in the NFL season. The answer is obviously, yes. If the question is if I were starting to franchise tomorrow, are there ten of the running backs? I was select over Melvin. Gordon, I think you gotta go Todd Gurley lady on bell. Zeke Elliott Kareem. I think Kareem hunt could be in the discussion. I think cream on David Johnson are a little if you only because they've had like one good season the jury's still out on them. But if you even throw in Allen Kamara, which I guess is the same case that I'm arguing against myself here, but. Gurley bell, Elliott for sure. Throwing Kamara I think Barclay's talented, but if you throw in hunt Johnson, even McCaffrey, that's not ten guys. That's eight room counting my head. So yeah, I think still got Leshan McCoy. Yeah. Did you meant? He's still think he's in there somewhere. I mean in this stage of his career, probably not. I'm probably picking Melva Gordon. So for me, I don't think there's ten better running backs to choose start my franchise. So I would say no, there are not in yes. Moment Gordon is a running back. Jamie grace with me and we solved that issue. Yeah. If you're asking, is he one of the ten most skilled running backs in terms of covering all the basis of what you want to running back in terms of power, speed vision, blocking receiving. You know, open field allusive no ability in the open field allusive nece. They're gone blanked on my on the word I was looking for there. I'm not sure that you could say he's one of the ten most skilled backs in the league. I think is vision Holden holding back a little bit. But if you're asking if he are there ten backs that you'd want over him, I would say no. They're not ten backs league that you would take over him if you were starting to franchise right now, we've decided it. That's it argument over. Yes, he's a top ten running back. Yep. Next question is from Marcus Trigon. Do you think the quote unquote working in of Michael Davis who had a pre draft? Four, three, four forty time in the lineup is meant to try to develop someone to cover tyreek hill, maybe not one on one, but to bump him at the line and have enough recovery speed to keep a close. You know, I think that's a really good thought Lind yesterday in his post game, press conference at talked about how much they liked Michael Davis, size and speed. But it seems to be a case according to Lynne's comments yesterday that Michael Davis was making so many plays on special teams that they just had to work in and he's earned snaps on defense, and maybe they hope that the confidence. Bills becomes that solid cornerback option on the bench. But Lynn also mentioned mentioned how his tackling vastly approved. And I thought we saw snippets of that on Sunday too. So I think he's worked hard and the coaching staff is recognized that and maybe the size and speed correlates. But I think for right now, it's more about earning the snaps because the coaching staff has appreciated the dirty work so to speak. He's done on special teams. I think there's two things going on here. One is I fully agree. He has earned the time on special teams. He earned time last year with his plan, special teams, and he's building on that this year. So there's no doubt that when you have somebody who has those side and speed measure size and speed, measurable 's, and who has looked good in spots in the preseason and is playing so well on special teams in his just a flat out athlete as a football coach, it's incumbent upon you to find a way to get an athlete like that on the field wherever and whenever you can and it helps that he's earning those snaps. I think the other thing that's going on here is I think this is a pretty obvious reaction to what they're seeing with Trevor Williams early in the season. We have six games of Trevor Williams. At this point, he is not played particularly well. He's not play particularly fast. He's even struggled with tackling at times which was really one of his strong suit's last season. And I think maybe they're starting to lose some level of patients with him because quick receivers are getting behind him on a regular basis. He seems to not be finding the ball in the air. He's just not playing well. Then I think they have to find some way to compensate for that and as just an easy step to get Davis in there and say, hey, he's earned it. He's playing so well in special teams is such a great athlete. We just gotta find a way to make better use of him and make more use of him. So I don't think they'd obviously say that in public because they don't want to damage. Trevor Williams's. Of confidence at all. But I think that that's part of what's going on here too is they are seeing some some regression in Williams game, and they are trying to get somebody ready to step in in the event that they need to do that later in the season. And obviously they're starting corners are a little bit on the slow side. All three of them even in the nickel packaged as is not the fastest guy. So they need to find some way to get some additional speed not just tyreek, but every NFL team has a fast wide receiver, whether it's in the slaughter outside or what have you. Somebody has every team has somebody you have to be able to cover downfield. So I think that's what's going on here. I don't think it's a direct response to we have to cover tyreek that would obviously be a benefit if he proves to be able to do that. I wouldn't expect them to leave Williams one on Davis, excuse me, one on tyreek hill at this point in his career. But you know, I think that's a combination of things that are going on right now. Yeah, maybe it's the coaching staff also saying, hey, listen, you know, dies. Gonna catch up with anybody on the back end. Somebody's gotta try. Right. Oh, what we know is not gonna catch up with any backup dancer. All right. So let's let's go ahead and go into this game. Impressive win on the road against a talented Browns team, and people were under selling them during the week, but they're a good team but charged and make them look like one gimme gimme a storyline from this game on Sunday. Well, I thought the big story line for me. The first one is the kind of discovery of the running game that Anthony Lynn wizard been looking for for the last almost year and a half. Now you've got a team that ran for two hundred and forty six yards and averaged almost seven yards a carry with did a really good job of letting his Lyman. His athletic Lyman be athletes again and get downfield and work. At the second level set up locks for the running backs. They were able to get Melvin Gordon out in space and and they got the reverse game going and the jet sweep game going. And I think the really telling thing here is the way they closed really the entire second half with the running game. They ran thirty two plays in the second half twenty four of which were runs. They gained one hundred forty of their hundred sixty nine second-half yards on the ground. The team scored seventeen second half points with Philip going to eight for twenty nine yards an i. t so they ran the ball down the forty Niners throat. They put the game away with extra points in the second half. And at the start of the fourth quarter, even though the drive didn't end very well, they had to drives where they just basically marched right down the field on the ground with almost nothing but runs. They were running the ball right at the Browns defense and the Browns had no answer for him and they wore them out and they, they just they beat him up and they broke them down physically. And I thought that was a big storyline because it's something that they've been looking for for for almost a year and a half now and it seems like they're finding it 'cause they found that against talented defense and it's something that they can build on and used a close out games moving forward. As they start to play more. Game. So I thought that was a huge storyline. Yeah. And that's something I want to touch onto. I guess we'll touch on a little bit later, but during this game, I thought the biggest storyline for me was Tiro Williams and just how it seems like every year he's got some kind of stand out performance and you know on Sunday, we saw it was three catches for a hundred and eighteen yards two touchdown. So he didn't necessarily dominate, but in three catches two touchdowns he was very productive made every catch count. And two of his three catches came on the back toback plays. There were seven forty left the second quarter. Most of, you know, all about it. There's a forty four yard dime from rivers that play was actually on one of the Browns, more talented corners. EJ Gaines who's giving up nothing through the air. Going into that game gave a forty four yards on one pass to tyrod Williams. And then the very next play was a forty five yard bomb to Tiro Williams and triple coverage. Not a great decision, but may what a strong move. To go up in being draped by two different defenders. Come down with it and basically ripped away from the who's trying to rip the ball away from him. So that was very impressive. Also the second touchdown, because third catch where you know Russell Kun probably should have been called for the false start, but that in slow. Yeah. This say, the least, but that didn't slow down Tiro Williams or award. Neither of them stopped playing. And of course Tiro made the catch. He kind of had to jump and kind of float in the air to come down with that and war was coming down and was draped on him to and war was also very impressive going in this week to and Tara Williams maye both those corners look pretty silly being able to run within so words dry for stride come down with. It just seems like we haven't seen those strong hands ever from Tiro Williams very far and few between. But what I thought was interesting because you know, we're not accustomed seeing those catches and he may two of them and Amy both count. But what was interesting post game is anti Lynn was asked, you know, we're used to prized about tyrod Williams performance on Sunday, which I think is terrible question. By the way. I don't know why you just get to the question. Are you surprised by Tyrone weekly player sucks. Oh, come on. Man. Just ask the question. Don't pussy foot around it anyway. Lin said, when I came in here, Tiro Williams wasn't accustomed to high point the ball. I didn't come natural to him, but every day outside my office, I watch him after practice now and he's practicing high, pointing the ball through contact. And even Linda admitted like referring to the first touchdown pass a year ago. That's not a play. Tyro Williams makes, but he's working on becoming a complete receiver. And you know, outside of the drops in week one, and he's been pretty quiet throughout this year, but to see the flashes of what Tiro Williams can be if he's working to be this complete receiver, and we're seeing the glimpse of it a little bit on Sunday and he can put it together consistently because he was outstanding on Sunday, but it was. It was a good sign from tyrod Williams, and it wasn't just, hey, he smoked db, which were custom seeing, oh, he kinda across her and took it for fifty yards which were accustomed to seeing being strong at the catch point with strong hands, finishing through contact. That's huge yet, you know. When we scouted Tiro Williams before the chargers made him and undrafted free agent or actually, I guess it was after they signed him. Yeah. One of the things that we noted was that he was a Manam boys playing at a d. to college and he never had to highpoint the ball. He never had fight for the ball, all his all his quarterback had to do was lead them and he'd run the ball, catch it against his body and run away from the defense. So that's a skill he had to learn and it took awhile, but it seems like he's getting there. I mean that you mentioned it that first touchdown pass was not a great decision, and it was not particularly well thrown. It was short and it was inside and it gave to Marius Randall a chance to make a play on it and he got both hands on it and tyro is going away from the ball reaches out over. Randall gets both hands on it after Rando looks like he secured the interception and then he pulls him over the top of him and rips the ball out. And we've never seen hands that strong. From Tyra that absolutely is not a catch. He would have made even maybe even earlier this year. But he goes out and he steals that throw to bail out his quarterback on a, you know, a questionable decision in a less than ideal throw. And then a couple of plays later, I guess a little while later he makes that second catch, which was a little overthrown came out a little hot and it was over his head. And that's the ball that probably goes through his hands last year. You know, he, he, he's a guy who has always preferred to catch the ball against his body. He waits for it to come to him, and he traps it against his body, and that ball would snuff through his hands guaranteed last couple years. And he goes up with the strong hands with Denzel word hanging on him, and he brings it in and just to probably the two best most physical most impressive catches that. He's made at any point in his charters career, not wide open. It's not like he's running away from the defense net situation. He's covered in all three cases. He caught the ball and traffic. Pick the first. The first throw from rivers was. I mean, it was a die and it was a perfect throw. Put the other two required some effort from Williams and he he gave that effort. He made to fantastic catches. So kudos to him, it seems like he's really growing and we've seen his growth in other areas too. It seems like he's running better routes. We talked about him a couple of weeks ago. I believe it was against the forty Niners making some key blocks spring Melvin Gordon in Austin, Ecuador on those runs off the edge, and it seems like every part of his game is starting to come together and he's he's a guy who heading into the season. You might have been thinking he's kinda iffy to resign. Now it's looking like he might be building towards a longer term deal with team. He seems like he's earning the right to stay, which is not something we would have said about him heading into the season now. So he deserves a lot of credit. Yeah, making trams Benjamin even more expendable, which is a win win, isn't it? Absolutely. And it was, you know, there was one time on this podcast. We actually did talk about how strong his hands looked earlier in the year, and man was the forty Niners game where he basically win over that defenders back and grabbed the ball away from him smashed out of the air and brought it back in. It was the Rams game, wasn't it Rams? Yeah, it was. I think it was the Rams game and he made a similar catch like that. I can't remember. It was the chiefs game or it was during the preseason, but he made a similar catch like that where rivers was rolling out to his right and threw the ball up for grabs and kind of try to lead him downfield and he went up and highpoint in the ball, and it was the first time we'd seen to make a catch like that. Yeah, it's something that he's obviously been working on it as in his coming on quickly. Yeah, there might be some to that which is which is a good sign. Okay. So I'll move on the next one and it's not a great one, but one that stood out to me that was just how the special teams outside. It's almost a flip the script outside of the kicker. Special teams was very disappointing. Donnie Jones cut. Teams both in do good and going into the Browns game. The Browns were the worst greatest special teams unit in the country and somehow in the league in the country and the it doesn't matter any Canadian Football League college football, no. In the NFL they were the worst there. The thirty second best special teams unit, both the coverage unit, and Danny Jones took a step back which disappointing on the second possession. You know, they scored in their first on the second possession when they were backed up in the end zone, Donnie Jones kicks a forty one yard punt that Gebreel peppers feels on a bounce. He took it to thirty five, but he got bailed out because of office of holding penalty next possession. Same thing has the pun out of his endzone. Again, he kicks it for thirty seven yards and the Browns begin that drive on the thirty three yard line then possession after that, he's got a little bit more room. It kicks it from the thirty one and it kicks it for forty one yards. And by series tackles by the coverage unit peppers returns for thirty three yards. And you've. Got short fields for the first half the next two punts peppers, muffed one. And then there's a fair catch, but you know, the average punt right now the NFL's forty five point seven yards. He hit that once on Sunday and when they needed a good kick from him, he went forty one and thirty seven from the end zone game a short field. And he didn't look like he's really stepping into his kicks at all. And I guess he looked great as a holder, bachelor Natal kicks. But as a partner, it seemed like the charter defense bailed him out. And you talked about earlier that you know the chargers kind of our overcoming some of these mistakes on special teams. There's a lot of them. I thought Jones was good against Oakland. I thought it was a good week his first week as a charger. But you know, this coverage unit didn't look good on Sunday. They gave up some big returns to peppers Jones was not kicking it well enough. It didn't really hurt them in terms of the score because I thought the defense bail them out and they played great with short fields, but that's just something that's got to improve. Yeah. I agree. And they feel like you're still in my notes here. My next note was the special teams took a huge step back. You mentioned that the short punts for Donnie Jones. He had four punts of forty one yards in that game. He had a forty yard, gross average. So for those of you who don't know the difference between gross and net gross is basically how far the ball travels in the air. He had a thirty point eight yard net average thirty point eight, which is gross. That's also gross. That's terrible. That's terrible. Yeah, because he was kicking the ball so short. He basically was under kicking his coverage. They didn't have time to get in there lanes and get down to make tackles, and he was giving Djibril peppers a full head of steam. The basically sprinting in defeating those kicks and like you mentioned, he had returns of thirty one fourteen and thirty three on his first three returns. And they couldn't tackle them. They were in position to tackle him. By the time he got a full head of steam. Nobody was there who was athlete enough to chase him down and he it was just awful. I mean, Jones left that those coverage units out to dry. I thought. Abania l- and deserve Noor look, particularly bad in coverage yesterday they looked woefully unathletic which of course is no surprise. But with with prepar getting a full head of steam before he even caught the ball on most of those punts they just had no chance to make a play often looking like they were stuck in mud. And then I thought, you know, we, we've been talking the last couple of weeks about some of the adjustments that was and gossip and making. And there really haven't been any judgments made by George Stewart. And then yesterday it's like he went into the game. He was like, you know, I can make adjustments to. So what did he do? He had Derwin return a kick and he had Keenan back returning punts with with Dez king, who, by the way, had a huge return early in the game. And then for some reason, all the sudden was splitting return duties in two men return unit with Keenan halfway into that game. I just he tried to fix something that wasn't broken and basically sat and watched. While his punter coughed up after punt early in the game, it was ugly. The special teams was terrible, and I think you know against good teams, those those are probably mistakes you're not going to, you're not going to survive. I think Cleveland is better than than most people give them credit for their certainly talented. And I think their defense generally is pretty well coached, but they did not play very well in offense. They didn't take advantage of the opportunities, a lot of that had to do with the chargers playing well on defense. But I think if you go into games against Kansas City, the Steelers the patriots, things like that, the ravens and you're kicking the ball forty yards in the air, and you're letting returners get a full head of steam before they feel those punts. You're not going to catch tyreek hill. He's probably going to return to those punts for touchdowns, and you're going to be giving Brady and big bend and Mahomes, you know, thirty forty yard fields to work with. You're not gonna stop them. So. So those are things that need to be cleaned up. You can't. You can't be leaving. You can't be giving them that kind of field position early in the game, especially not while the offense is getting backed up and struggling to move the ball. So that's got to be fixed. Yeah. And you know, credit to the defense for stopping them, but because they really covered up how bad that special teams unit was on Sunday because they didn't get any score. They got three points off those three return. So you know, it was. It was good by the defense. But yeah, that's special teams gotta get cleaned up next week. Yeah, you know, I think the defense played well in spots. They handled the short fields pretty well. They're still a little leaky on the back end Antonio Calloway dropped touchdown. They had Radley kid drop a ball at the one yard line. They had a couple other throws get missed down the field. So it's not like the charges were flawless on defense, but they were able to get the get off the field on third down which helped quite a bit able to get that interior pressure, which was huge and really trap. Baker Mayfield in the pocket, which it looked like he was confused. He wasn't seeing the big windows. He's normally used to throwing into and he was having trouble making decisions and getting rid of the ball. So they they really did a good job of locking him up and jamming. Those receivers. Okay. So what else you got. So my next point you stole my second point, which was the funding game, which lasts one a. My last one is just more adjustments that we're seeing on offense and defense. I'm really encouraged by the flexibility and the ability to make schematic and personnel changes by both. Ken wasn't hunting Gus Bradley over the last few weeks. I think it's been a huge part of their winning streak, and I hope it continues. So here, here's some of the things that I made note of and look. This is mine too. So it's not like I'm just doing yours. You're still no, I know they're there on this. So let's talk about it. So the first one, and I know this is on your list because I saw you talked about it on Twitter earlier, and it's something that stood out. To me was the way that they really neutralize Myles Garrett by making him think about where he was supposed to be, what he was supposed to be doing. They basically left him unblocked and they ran motion and zone, read and jet sweeps. And basically challenged him to be the read man and make plays, and they kind of locked him up and slowed them down for the majority of that game. And that was a huge part of getting the offense going early. Also thought they did a better job of getting equi more involved early in the game, which was a good thing. And then you see the changes that Gus made the schematic from a schematic standpoint, they did a good job of challenging the Cleveland receivers at the line of scrimmage, they weren't. They were giving those seven to ten year cushions and then falling off. They were up underneath your chins, bumping him, making them earn their way open, and they weren't able to do it. Gus, and this is huge gust because it's not something he's normally accustomed to doing. We saw Fairmount of cover to in that game, they had to deep safeties trying basically challenging Cleveland to throw the ball deep on them against two safeties. That is not something Gus normally does. He also was very aggressive on third down. We saw them bring in some cases, five or six pass rushers, which was which was a key to getting pressure on Baker early in the game and having him pull the ball down. And then I think the personnel adjustments also were huge, both on both on offense and defense, you talk about even though Barksdale was healthy and practice towards the end of the week. They start Sam too heavy at right tackle. And he was a huge part of the running game. Then you talk about gusts getting Jenkins on the field for paramount on third down dime packages using using him despite on Mayfield and using that closing speed Neth let us into chasing down when he left the pocket. We also saw them quote, unquote, start China. Awo suet will he only played eleven snaps. He was kind of a starter in in name only, but it was a way to get him on the field and get some snaps. Big thing for me a- die played in box a lot more this week than he has in weeks past, and he had his biggest tackle output of the season because he was more comfortable and he was able to be aggressive and attack. We saw different mixes of Derwin and Jenkins and free safety and free safety playing center field. And then we talked about, Michael Davis started take snaps away from Trevor Williams and getting worked into the rotation. All of these things I think played a huge role with the exception of maybe new, oh, sue. All these things play a huge role in the defensive success in terms of confusing Mayfield moving pieces around really getting their athletes on the field, particularly on defense and letting them play and getting themselves in the best position to cover up the Browns receivers and tracked down Mayfield when he left the pocket. So all of these things I think were huge changes. And it just shows that these coaches I think are noticing some of the holes in their game, and they are making big changes to the personnel to try to put their players in the best position to succeed. And it's a game by game change. They're making team specific game plan, personnel and scheme. Schematic changes that are paying huge dividends. And these are things that I think can carry forward through the season and put them in position to win as the season goes on. Yeah. And so that's a lot of what I was going to mention. I think you know, it's also important to note that we've been critical of Ken Whisenhunt and Gus Bradley the season, and I think they've been absolutely out coast and I think deservingly so. But also I think they deserve some praise this week because they did make the judgments. And you mentioned a lot of them. Just a couple of ones that you didn't mention. I mean, obviously there was a lot of good things, but creating the turning up the heat on Baker Mayfield early was big. You talked about it. He was sacked five times. He was hit nine times. He never really looked comfortable, and there is the interior pressure came from Corey legion. On the inside. You saw some Damian square is a gross shell. In the end. He saw the DB's German, James racial Jenkins couplets coming from everywhere, and it really got to Baker without KYW's your white, which takes Brown again, Chen into, whoa, sue was the quote unquote starter, but really it was agent Phillips in his full linebacker spied and dime. He saw racial Jenkins as the actual linebacker. You talked about the spy. That was, I thought, a really, really good wrinkle. Having him playing close to the land, scrimmage play all the needs stuff. Make sure he couldn't dump anything off. Which look like a lot of times was he was looking at Joe coup to dump the pass off Jenkins's right there underneath watching bakers, sues Baker Tut's at run. He attack. And that's how we got how Jake got his half a sack and the also early on sold out to stop the run. Carlos had fourteen carries. He had thirty four yards on the day. Their leading rusher was do Johnson thirty six total yards. I mean they really stop the run and again, last week, you know, the elected to have Casey were shadow Amari Cooper, and though Hayward shadow Jarvis Landry as much the Browns wide receiver. One Jarvis Landry is much. He's still on him a lot and they limited him. He had two catches eleven yards. They bracketed David joke who like they did with Jared cook the week before he had twelve targets. Seven catches fifty five yards and the touchdown lot of that came in garbage time and it forced the other Browns players to make plays. And like you mentioned the rattling kid in the Callaway kid. Those kids can't catch Brown's love their receivers who cannot catch the ball. If you're forcing guys who don't know how to use their hands as receivers, which is their number one job. You're doing good things. So great job by them. Being able to stop Myles Garrett by just running at him was awesome. The end arounds the sweeps to toss is the pitches running off the edge stretched him out. He had to stop think his first step wasn't towards the quarterback and Garrett got his. I mean he, he always will and got the best of Russell a couple times. But men have Russell Kun back is a big deal. And ultimately he looked frustrated on Sunday and having that motion going on all the time opened up that passing game early on while you're running silent silent. It also helped limit. Larrea gun should be because when you're talking about, you know their power run game and how early on a moment Gordon's career running in between the guards and you're going up the gab trying to power to three yards on first second down, then it working with the Browns and you're not going to get that with gun Jobe. So they're running silence island. He couldn't do anything about it, and he's a talented detangle. So good. On wiz to kind of neutralize their two biggest weapons mouse Garrett. Larry gun will be. So I thought they both did great on Sunday. It wasn't perfect obviously. But also it was kind of I don't wanna say cute, but you know week one, the chiefs ran that jet sweep a couple times. Got two touchdowns off of it just like I'm gonna run until you stop it that end around Akina now's working. Let's try tyrod wimps. Let's try with Mike, and he just kept going to it and the Browns couldn't stop it. So we kinda opposes will little bit as a coordinator and Todd Haley, Greg Williams, absolutely embarrassed on Sunday. They could not do anything. You can't complain about the outcome. They dominated a team that has been tied in the fourth quarter. Every game this year, that team does not go away. They always compete and they put him away early. They they were. It seemed like they're almost never in that game even with the short fields early on that first quarter they put them away. So every other team could not do that. And they played a talented Braves team earlier. The week before him beat him in overtime. So you know, they haven't played just south schedule so good on the charters to put away a pretty pesky Browns team. They held drew Brees twenty one points in New Orleans. So I mean, they're, they've been turning the ball over. I think, fifteen turnovers in their first five games. So that's a team that that had been playing extremely well. They get after the quarterback, they get their hands on a lot of footballs and coverage. And you know, you mentioned they took Larry Giambi out of out of the game. We talked about what they did with Myles Garrett. They also they basically just took Mike pouncey and said, go take Joe show out of the game, and he did. He buried him and he ran him down and he'd beat them up and she'll wanna know coming out of the game at the end of the game with a hamstring issue. So I mean, they took their three best playmakers on defense. You could even say four with with work through it him, they, they weren't intimidated by him. They threw it him. They made plays against him. They challenged all. Their best best defenders or took them out of the game. Anyway, may plays on all of them and just they had their way with them. And I thought that game started out and it reminded me a lot of ways of the raiders game last week where they score. I, they kind of let them hang around. They slowdown they get kind of cutesy with the play, calling things get kind of bogged down and then half with the second quarter. It was like, you know what? Fuck this. And they throw those too deep balls. They they connect on the first deep ball, the tyro which we already talked about. It was a great throw, and then they make that they make that completion. Your thinking here comes the run and you know the Browns are thinking here comes the run and they get hard play action at. I think it was at a twenty two personnel throw right over the top is the only one running around. He comes all the way across field to make that touchdown catch. And it was basically over from there. I mean, they, they just suck the wind right out of the out of the Brown sale. So very well play game. Like you said, you can't complain. You go to Cleveland, you go fly across the country. You beat a team by twenty four points like that. Now you've got a pre lowly titans team in in England this weekend and things are looking pretty good. There's no reason not to think that you know they can't go into in the London eke out four straight win. Yeah, man. Yeah, man, I was does a lot of fun on Sunday. Not expecting that. I thought it was gonna be a lot closer than that. I mean, obviously, Cleveland's been close in every game, but man, they made everybody look at it and you know, you talk about some other talented EJ Gaines threw at him to warn gains, have been the two best corners that the best quarterback duo in the NFL so far this year according pro football focus, and then genera every been really talented as an edge rusher non-factor. Nobody had a good game and Schober damn dog and coverage. Man. He was talented and pouncey drove him into the ground and it was. It was game over which is like they neutralized every talented, personal net defensive front, and it was it was over. Yep. And it's another game. We talked about it last week, another game where they're getting production up and down the lineup, all their offensive lineman played well, they're defensive lemon played their asses off. You're getting plays out of Desmond king. We haven't mentioned yet with his two interceptions almost three. Tyrel making plays Ray Sean Jenkins making plays a die, making tackles in the box. Derwin almost getting sack, Michael Davis stepping in and playing. Well, I mean, you got a half a sack during got his hat. You gotta have a sack, excuse me. But you know, they get plays up and down the lineup from everybody on both sides of the ball depth starter rotational player doesn't matter. And I think you gotta give a real shout out to Jenkins. Adrian Phillips. We mentioned earlier desma king. Those guys played there. Those guys balled out on Sunday. They played fantastic. This team looks to be at his best when I put that extra db on the field, you know, having Getafe and kind of your white out this week was kind of a blessing guys because they were fast on defense this week. Yeah. And you know, I, I'm kind of wondering if we might see more of Jenkins maybe in the will roll moving forward because he's perfectly suited for that role with the way they run that with the way they expect that the well, the play. I mean, he can cover ground, you can cover, he can blitz. He's a good tackler. I mean, he he is, you know, I'm not gonna see Kaiser white, but he has some similar traits to Kaiser white playing in that role. So if they wanna exp-. Band, his role and get him on the field more. That'd be good way to do it, and it's a good way to fill in for Brown and white while they're hurt. Yeah, it'd be interesting in man still, no Joey, Bosa resilient. Non of we're still waiting on them, but those interior patch playing so well, I mean, they got five sacks and Melvin was pretty quiet. So that's a good sign because when Bosa comes back and they've gotten Melvin both off the edge, maybe they kick Rochelle inside, you can mix and match Rochelle, Leauge it and file on and they're going to be tough to handle. Yeah. All right guys. Well, that's going to do it this week. I'm at garrison Twitter, Jamie lightning, underscore around, and we will see next time. Thanks. Everybody. Hi, I'm Karen Fisher. I want to tell you about another podcast. You should check out. It's called Rico decode every week. I talked to Tekken media's key players about how they're changing our world. I interview tech executives like Facebook, CEO, Mark Zuckerberg, political figures like Hillary Clinton and media personalities, like John, Kerry you literally wrote the book on thoroughness. Once again, the name of the show is Rico decode hosted by me Kerris wisher. You can find it on apple podcast or wherever you listen to the show. See there.

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