Jason Moore- Elite HRV
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I'm excited to have jason moore the founder of elite h._r. v. which is the free app for measuring your h._r. V. jason and i spent some time talking about his story about how he began his company as well as diving down and talking a little bit without h._r. V. and how it might help your movement in your healthy lifestyle. If you like what you hear please leave us review on apple podcasts or whatever your podcast app that you listen to us zahn and tell your friends about us. Welcome back to another edition of moving to live moving to live in our sister podcast lab p._g. H firmly believed that move into the life style not just an activity with moving to live. We tried to interview a variety of professionals to get these silo knowledge out there. If you're not in a silo of today's has guests. You're probably going to learn something if you are in the silos today's guest you may pick something else up in addition. I wanna thank jon moxley for the intro that a year and a half ago. I talked to donna and donna's very knowledgeable about h._r. V. and he said hey you need to download the free app elite h._i._v. For measuring your uh hurry variability. I think you'd like it and as i was talking to today's guests before we started recording. I kind of dropped down the rabbit hole <hes> with h._r. V. in measuring my sleep quality leeann. What happens if i have a couple of beers what happens if i have a couple of hard workouts and i think at this is a topic. That's really pertinent for anybody who is active h._r. V. can be a good measure or a a good tool along with other things to measure how your performances more importantly measure if something's going wrong with your wellness so i'm really happy today to have have jason moore who was the inventor of core sense which is a device for measuring h._r. V. and he is the developer of the elite h._r. V. app which is a free app that you can download on android and apple podcasts to measure your h._r. V. so jason thanks for taking time to talk to moving to live this morning. Awesome yeah thanks thanks thanks for reaching out <hes> and for the invitation and yeah dons a great guy very knowledgeable about a lot of things and sew movement is a <hes> really special thing to me <hes> it's very high on my list of priorities and so <hes> if not the highest maybe second only to my family but <hes> thanks yeah. I'm glad to be here and i think the first question i always like to ask moving to live guests. You got a measure standing on an elevator or you're standing in line at your local coffee shop and you're wearing a elite h._i._v. Hat or lead h._r. V. t. shirt and you strike up a conversation. Somebody jason what do you do. What's your kind of boilerplate earlier. Play elevator talk. I'm jason more. This is what i do <hes> yeah. It's good good question so as with anything in life we kind of tailor our message to our audience and so <hes> you know if the person's wearing fitness clothes for example than i might say <hes> well <hes> we have a health and fitness tracking tool called heart rate variability which measures the state of your nervous system and in a nutshell tells you whether or or not you can exercise more or exercise harder or maybe you need to take time for recovery and it's an objective measure of your body <hes> so it removes the guesswork work and so if the person's wearing office close <hes> instead that i might say <hes> well i may leave the part about nervous system amount will see people tend to latch onto that and ceo already know. I'm stressed. I don't need to measure it <hes> but as we were talking about before for the show <hes> you know there's a lot of variation to what that means but i might say something like oh. Hi you know i have a <hes> health and fitness tracking tool called elite h._i._v. that primarily uses heart rate variability to measure the state of your body and your minds helps you have more energy motivation make make better decisions as to how much you can handle from your <hes> exercise stress work and relationships in balance with your sleep nutrition recovery tools so <hes> again it removes the guesswork and helps you kinda <hes> achieve your goals else faster so that's kind of what we're our mission is <hes> and hopefully that gives you two flavors out of the many that <hes> my elevator hitter pitch might sound light to a random stranger and we all know that many runners and cyclists they're data geeks. Have you found when you give that <hes> speech of that talk doc people kinda go oh. I've never heard of h._i._v. before or they more i've heard of it and i actually use your app or two. More people say yeah. I've heard of it but i don't really understand how it works so i measure my resting heart rate in the morning. Yeah there is a spectrum to it. You know there's <hes> there are people who are kind of unfamiliar with measuring anything about themselves <hes> and those people sort of glaze over a little bit and that's okay because eventually <hes> you know we'll get there eh but for anyone that's interested about measuring anything with regards to their progress or their current state of their body or their mind <hes> they usually perk-up up and say oh interesting you know so some people immediately get it. They'll say oh wow so like if i exercise and then <hes> <hes> eat poorly or drink alcohol afterwards it can tell me if that was affecting my recovery from my exercise and i'll be like wow i don't know how you got that out of my elevator pitch but yes that is something you could do with it and <hes> and other people again like you said we'll say yeah okay well. How's that different from heart rate measure heart rape <hes> and so then i can you know depending on how long that elevator right is. I can say well. It's a lot deeper than heart rate and it goes deep into the nervous system system which is integrated with all of the processes in your body from energy regulation to <hes> recovery digestion sexual function all these things and we can kind of go down the rabbit on that and i know that everybody has an interesting story to get where they are so i'm always curious for moving to live guests. I know just from reading posts seeing tweets that you that you've done what you said at the beginning of the interview is you are a mover. It's important part of your life or you. One of those kids when you were growing up the mom and dad said <unk> get the heck out of the house and don't come back until dinnertime and that was the way you got into movement or were you more organized sports or were mom and dad very very very active and you kind of initially tagged along and that's where you got your love for moving <hes> yeah you know when i look back <hes> sometimes especially now that my nightime seem so scarce with a newborn and having my own child that's just over three months old. I look back and think how i don't know how i had enough time to do all all these things growing up but <hes> i did do organized sports primarily soccer which has its pros and cons <hes> from spending so much much time focused on that but yes. I specifically remember when i was six years old. One of my earliest memories is my dad. <hes> <hes> locking me out of the house there there was a kid playing we had just moved and there's a kid playing across the street and he was just doing some random stuff in the yard and and i was kind of shy and my dad was like you're gonna go meet that kid and play and we started walking out and then he turned back around and shut the door and locked it so i was kind of especially a gnat few years <hes> spending lots of time outside and and <hes> had some good influences of friends growing up the also like to spend time outside doing various things but then had this other kind of <hes>. It's like ah feels like my shadow life now that i'm talking about it on a movement podcast but from a very young age i've also spent a lot of time with technology indoors the worst not moving and so except for moving my fingers really rapidly but <hes> had my first computer for myself in first first grade and <hes> my dad was <hes> one of the early innovators in the tech world <hes> specifically around around networking but that aside he helped me build my first computer at a very young age and i've spent a lot of time on the computer and with technology and and <hes> so i have a love hate relationship with technology because i feel like it can help us in so many ways <hes> but it also is a source sources of <hes> issues for me personally and for many people because of what it does to our bodies and minds and so happy to unpack that had a little bit more but i've spent a lot of time outside and a lot of time on the computer and those two are always kind of at odds away but also eventually mutually eliya working together. I'm curious also as you get older. I know a lot of people when they go to college. Maybe they stop moving for a few years because there are all all those and i say this in air quotes interesting things that you can do in college that may or may not be good for your health and it's not at all unusual to see somebody come back from their freshman. In year they gained the freshman tanner the freshman fifteen other people get to college and they discover other movement activities or other people move with when you were in college. Did you continue to move some. I'm white if so what way or was it more concentrating on the degree work and the technology that you referred to a few minutes ago yes a good question so i feel very grateful. <hes> especially for the influence of my parents that have been <hes> encouraged me to be active for my whole life's though i did continue to be active through college edge athletes and recreational soccer <hes> went to the gym periodically <hes> my took a tumbling class swimming class racket ball class <hes> so i actually started branching out a little bit more with my movement in college after specializing in soccer throughout high school and <hes> so that was great but it also also started to highlight for me a few things like you said as you get older <hes> and things just don't seem as easy or at least you notice them more <hes> <hes> and so around those late high school kind of in college years. I started wondering why it was so hard for me to make progress. Listen my movement or do things that required my upper body 'cause i hadn't used it much in like probably a decade and <hes> <hes> and then if i tried to get more fit it just seemed like an uphill battle and so that was where i started getting really kind of more research-oriented and i didn't even know it at the time but then leading into my early twenty s became very interested in understanding the body in a deeper way and and why it was hard for me to get the results that others seem to get so easily of course i didn't know they were probably having their own struggles behind closed doors but yeah so that kinda lead to another story which gets me to where i am today and i'm curious with that i mean i know there's a curiosity. I got into the field that i got into because i was either going to be marine biology major or an athletic training student and my first biology classes is plant biology and i hated it so i said well. I'm going to become an athletic training major but from what you're describing. It sounds like it would be very easy for you to say that i don. I say this in a positive way not at a derogatory way but elaborate somebody who dives into the physiology lab to figure out what is it about my muscle makeup or what is it about certain people's muscle makeup <unk> or cellular makeup allows them to be very very successful very very big. So what was it that prevented you or stopped you from saying you know. I'm gonna get a p._h._d. In physiology did you or something like that and i'm really gonna dive into that figure out. Why is it that i'm not having such an easy time that i think other people are having yeah. That's a that's a good question question <hes> so a couple of reasons and again just kinda grateful for where <hes> where the waters of taken me <hes> so to speak but <hes> i'm very <hes> kind of in the field oriented <hes> action-oriented an entrepreneur oriented so <hes> also from a young age. I've been kind of always thinking of ideas to start a business in kind of <hes> do my my own thing there. I guess my dad it had an influence on me in that because he was very entrepreneurial as well <hes> and so <hes> also i was just i'm still very enamored with technology and how it how it supplied and so <hes> in in college i studied information systems and a little bit of computer science as well health and <hes> and so then i went on to actually afterwards get a job <hes> working in i._t. And doing design of of large-scale information sean systems and data systems and so i was very good at it i had a knack for it and that was kind of the thing was occupying my academic life and so the other thing that was really interesting is not too long after college was as we were talking about before the podcast a lot more information was becoming available online and <hes> so i was able to get a sort of cutting edge anecdotal research <hes> <hes> <hes> throwing people blogging trying things on themselves and doing different things <hes> and that was a lot more fascinating to me than just kind of digging deeper and deeper into encyclopedias <hes> because i i wanted to see. How can i apply this to myself today. I don't wanna read about this for thirty years. I wanna read it about about it for a little bit and then try something a myself and then keep reading about it and try something on myself so while i do now especially as i've aged appreciate the formal research process. We dig a lot into research especially with the lead h._r. V. I also have this other side of the the equation where i'm like. How can we apply this. How can i do this today. What's the risk. Eventually i got really into a risk management decision theory and things like that some naseem to live in daniel conman's work but <hes> from a young age. I kinda intuited that that path is well. We're talking with jason moore. He is with elite h._r. Vs develop the app. I'm curious at what age or how long ago did you first learn about h._r. Jarvi and then what was the path saying you know i think i could make an app for this and make it a vi- and make it a viable business versus. You know i know what i know at the h._r. Reviews on just going to geek l. and make this device that i devised this app that i can share with my friends and you know i don't. I don't think there's any way i can make money off of this. So what was what was the impetus and how did you discover or learn. I learn about h._i._v. Yeah so <hes> again kind of in that <hes> those college years coming out of that <hes> wondering why <hes> things seemed hard for me also injured myself a minor injuries a few times <hes> i and then later <hes> some more centuries <hes> but <hes> and then i guess i left this part of the equation out <hes> <hes> after college to as part of my experimentation with myself in what i was reading about and learning about was i became a personal trainer and fitness coach as well <hes> as a side passion in fact most of the time. I didn't even charge for my services. I was just trying to help people get better at the same time understand different flavors of what was going on with their movement or their nutrition their sleep different things and so <hes> when i was working in the oil industry which was my job after college we would cover all the equipment out in the field and sensors and get all these data streams coming in and and they're helping us monitor the status in the health of the equipment and this is very expensive equipment right is very <hes> important for the company to know if it might fail or or what kind of maintenance it can they can do to help not fail of such things in <hes> so we're doing all this monitoring health monitoring of the equipment and my my day job of coaching people trying to figure out what are all the variables and inputs there <hes> affecting their ability to get results again. If we wanna add another tangent to this i've been a big fan of bruce lee from a young age and so <hes> i was a kid that had the little bruce lee book and was like oh you know <hes> be like water and take take from everywhere and keep what works and discard the rest rate so that kind of open-mindedness and a ah thinking why don't we have more information about the human body and you know <hes>. We're doing all the sensor monitoring on equipment. Why couldn't we just monitor our body and see what is telling us and make better decisions day to day and of course i there are people who are doing this for long before i had that epiphany measuring heart rate measuring bloodmarkers measuring body weight measuring during all sorts of stuff <hes> but when i started really getting into it <hes> i wanted to something better than all that i discovered heart rate variability and some of the the promising early research assay early because it was before it became the turn. That's talked about on podcasts. <hes> <hes> harvard variability ability has been around monitoring it for decades but it was all done in lab settings or very special niches and <hes> so anyways i discovered covered some of the research and realize that <hes> polar specifically had a chest strap that was accurate enough to measure the raw data needed to calculate articulate h._r. V. and that some people were talking about potentially making apps or connecting to the phone. Things like that and i was like you know what i don't see any the options out there that are very <hes> affordable accessible and good in fact. I bought some of the more expensive in clunky tools early on <hes> <hes> because i just wanted to measure it and see if the what was in the research was really true. <hes> it became something that was very useful to me personally and so the long story not so short is that <hes> i figured i could make a tool and put it out there that would be more useful and accessible than what was available and <hes> so i- partnered with a friend who was a computer science focused person and he and i brought the first version of elite h._i._v. to life in two thousand fourteen actor <hes> several years of research and kind of preparation for for that and <hes> initially even though i have this entrepreneurial streak and i am always kind of thinking you know i wanna make a business out of this or i'm going to try <hes> make the business viable <hes> we didn't know or if it was going to be a business or not. We just put it out there. We had a good jobs which we're grateful. Four <hes> that were supporting anyways so this was just like a weekend project and <hes> low behold a ton of people started downloading it so say say a ton but in early days hundreds and thousands of people and we started getting all these emails of people like the <hes> the national rugby b-team in england's as saying like hey were interested in <hes> you know your app and <hes> let can we meet this that and the other and so it just kind of took on a life of its own and started <hes>. I started realizing very early. Yes this is a very potentially viable business and so what steps apps can we take to actually make this happen and i ended up quitting my day job <hes> and traveling and then and <hes> working on a lead h._i._v. more and more until eventually <hes> became a full-time gig a few years ago and the rest is history. Now is over three hundred twenty thousand people on it. We've got a national sports teams pro sports teams. We've got bio hackers. You've got people people who are just managing pain <hes> non-medically <hes> but through lifestyle and wellness changes people monitoring monitoring their cognition to see if they can make better stock market trading decisions which by the way disclaimer later trevi does not guarantee that you'll make more profit it from from the stock market by using our app but a really fascinating stuff going on out there. We're talking with jason moore. He's he's the founder of elite h._r. V. heart rate variability measuring <hes> app. I think what was interesting when i first learned about your company and when i was first introduced your app is it's a free app and in many instances. I know you probably appreciate this being in the technology industry the first thing that people do they come up with an idea as they you think. How much can i charge for this and maybe maybe they do something on go fund me or maybe they do something on kickstarter and say hey you know buy something or put some money in in. Maybe you'll get something if we actually figure out all the problems which we tell you we figured out but we actually have it and what you've got is. You've got an app. That's it's free for anybody to download. You've got extensive list on your website. There's a number of very reasonably priced heart rate straps for your chest and for or literally less than fifty bucks you can be up and running measuring elite h._i._v. You can also go farther for those people who drop down the rabbit hole because you can dan on the app you could measure and track past measurements of days but you've also got a platform on the web kind of talked about the platform on the web that it's for both individual people and teams whether it's <hes> somebody who's coaching a rugby team or somebody who's working with multiple all cyclists or runners. They can monitor the h._r. V. of the individual athletes that they're working with yeah appreciate that yeah. It's you know again kinda grateful for the way that my life has developed because we were put out for free because i didn't i didn't need the money to survive 'cause ahead other sources of income <hes> and so that relieved pressure from me or being able to put that out and allowed me to just <hes> <hes> say hey. We just wanna make accessible to people we don't. We don't wanna worry about monetization enforcing something like that. We'll figure that out later that makes dance almond so the free app is free obviously and will remain so for the foreseeable future and we're just happy to provide provide that service and <hes> you know monetization we we don't sell people's data and all that type of stuff which people in the early days would just email. Hey why is this free. Are you selling my data to somebody. No we don't do that <hes> but then what we found is that people did wanna dig a lot deeper into the analytics and the statistics statistics so for the people who want to kind of understand their trends over time and and do deeper data analytics that stuff is also a little bit more processing intensive for us to provide that service <hes> versus just allowing you to kind of track stuff on your phone <hes> and so that was a natural fit for us to release a pro subscription is what we call it basically so it integrates with a a web interface if you like to see charts <hes> trends and things in in a bigger screen and likely to slice and dice a little bit deep or deeply and and that's going to be integrated into the mobile app to with some more advanced features in the near future so people can kind of access that from the app soon and so <hes> <hes> yeah basically that's just a subscription. It's <hes> nothing <hes> exorbitantly priced compared to other subscriptions we see but it also allows businesses and teams to enter the picture as well so <hes> as a coach you can aggregate and analyze all of your clients data if you like nick and you can slice and dice that data based on groups that you defined so if you have like a a gym for example that has more advanced <hes> trainees and and then more beginner trainees you can group those people and see the trends independently for your chance folks in your <hes> more begin folks and <hes> yeah and then the a neat thing to that we found is by making this accessible to people is that we start getting so many messages back about all the things that people are discovering about themselves or their clients by you know just measuring and they start to measure track a few things on the side like sleep or exercise or maybe if there have a specific goal like weight loss they might track their body weight or their waist to hip ratio for example <hes> or if they're a mover oh that's trying to develop more advanced skills like <hes> muscle up progressions or something like that then they might track that and so it helps a few track year specific goal. If you have a goal that's even better <hes> and then also tracking a few of the things along the way like h._r. V. can really help you a course correct as you're working your way towards that goal and i know as you noted there is a lot of data as you can get from this app hap and some people want that other people say look i take my resting heart rate every morning and i know what that is and that gives me an idea kind of a two to part question here the first artist for those people who say i take my resting heart if you could kind of briefly describe them kind of convince them. This is why h._r. V. he is potentially better and then the second follow up to that is what i think is interesting about some of the apps and some of the things you see out there for measuring measuring physiological variables some of them you can look at the data and go. I have absolutely no way how to use this other. Ones give you a neat little score and elite h._i._v. Falls falls into that latter category. If you don't wanna drop down that rabbit hole download reams and reams of data you can get a score so kind of two part question is is why h._r. V. instead of heart rate and i should. I should note listeners that the elite h._r. V. app does give you the heart rate so you can still do your heart rate and then the second thing is kind of talk a little bit about the score for people who say look. I just want something down and dirty. Maybe this is better for me than heart rate. But how do i use this. What do i look at is is. It's pretty easy to save. My heart rates sixty. My heart rate's seventy-five. Something's wrong today versus when it was sixty right okay so yeah that's a great question in fact <hes> one of the most common questions we got over their early years before a job started becoming a little bit more known. Was you know how's how's this different from heart rate and so we wrote a blog post on h._i._v. Chorus dot com called heart rate versus heart rate variability <hes> that hosts may end up being moved to the elite h._i._v. blog but either way you can find it. <hes> and there's some pretty good points in there <hes> i. I'd like to lead with measuring. Just your heart rate is a great start. <hes> so your heart can tell you a lot just from the beats per minute <hes> however with just a little bit more accuracy you can actually we start to capture heart rate variability in addition to just that beats per minute and so the accuracy piece is important. I won't dig too deeply into that at this moment but <hes> there's a lot of claims out there in the market about <hes> different variations and heartbeat and what we've seen in the research backs this up is that you need a high degree of accuracy calculate h._r. V. which has heart rate variability and so heart rate variability is looking at the tiny changes ranges between each and every heartbeat were talking little millisecond changes and those little millisecond changes are those actually correlate with activity from your nervous the system specifically i mean also other things like the respiratory system and blood pressure and other things like that but we're specifically interested in in the influence of the autonomic nervous system has on the heart because the automatic nervous system is one of the primary responders controllers hours of your stress and your recovery and so what does that mean <hes> so basically when you're stressed like for example when you exercise. That's a physical stress. It's a good stress usually <hes> but <hes> it's a physical stress. Your heart rate goes up because your nervous system <unk> tells it to increase and endure <hes> you know your blood sugar your blood pressure your pupils dilate all that increases to respond to that physical stress and the automatic nervous system specifically the sympathetic branch audit is one of the primary <hes> controllers of that process and so <hes> <music> hopefully that wasn't too deep into two quick but then the other side of the equation is your resting in digesting side of the equation is that paris sympathetic branch of the autonomic nervous system that slows your heart rate down lowers blood pressure helps you digest food helps with sexual function lowers blood sugar and that's actually the state that you should be spending most of your time in so even if you were a hunter gatherer out in the wild and you're constantly constantly worried about predators i say constant but that's an exaggeration worried about predators moving around climbing trees for your food still will the majority of your time is spent resting and <hes> the problem is nowadays again. I won't go too far down. This is that <hes> due to the psychological article demands the social cultural demands that we have as well as gin technology. <hes> and things may spend more time in that fight or flight response and we typically should end. It's not manifesting in the form of physical stress which is what our bodies designed handle more movement essentially <hes> so nowadays it's not enough movement <hes> and so we can measure all that and <hes> and again so by measuring your h._i._v. wanna highlight. It doesn't say okay. You measured your h._i._v. And it just knows that you climbed a tree in got a coconut down. It doesn't know that but it can tell you at any given moment <hes> with about sixty seconds of data if your body is in that deeper stress state or if it's starting a recovery process or or you know what kind of your baseline level of health fitness energy stress is and so it goes a lot deeper than just heart rate eight and again. We kinda right more about this on the blog. We have a podcast of course too if you're interested in that but <hes> it goes a lot deeper and it's not that much harder to measure that's kind of the beauty of lie. Why were a bike share about h._i._v. Heart rate so easy to measure while if you just have a heart rate monitor that it's accurate measuring nature of is just as easy as mentoring your and you get so much more out of it and i know it's a good time to ask the question as far as measuring heart rate. We've we've talked a little bit about chest straps. Which kind of for in the field is kind of the gold standard but you see a variety of watches. Now that you could measure is your heart rate off the back of the wrist with optical hurry why the chest strap for communicating with the elite elite h._r. Via for saying hey. We're going to allow people if if they have a watch the takes the optical hurry why not use optical hurried off the wrist yeah. It's a good good good question so it comes back to that accuracy. Um i'm that i mentioned earlier and so <hes> you can see heart rate rising and falling generally by measuring heart rate from the wrist and those devices vices are pretty good now for measuring heart and that's beats per minute and the problem is is that the variations were looking for are very tiny and so it's a lot easier to say okay you've had ten heartbeats in ten seconds than it is to say exactly when each of those beats occurred with with millisecond accuracy and so <hes> that's where the chest comes in at still been kind of the gold standard from what's available to the public of course in the lab the gold standard is actually still multi leading see geez with adhesives in wires everywhere <hes> and but what's interesting now too who is that <hes> so we've come out with a device which you mentioned <hes> earlier core sense that can <hes> that's dedicated h._r. V. censor from your finger and between that and the chest strap a lot of labs are actually switching to these devices because even though they get maybe a point zero one percent difference <hes> in the data accuracy from their multi lead easy geez. It's so much easier to track the data that they can get more data more data points more longitudinal data and it's just way easier and cheaper to run their studies and so the accuracy component for these devices like the chess strapping core sense is <hes>. It's there <hes> as far as quality of data enough for it to be used in research labs <hes> however some the risk based devices that are not dedicated to h._r. Be they're not specialty h._i._v. devices and they have to make a lot of compromises to be <hes> on the wrist. <hes> is that they don't quite provide the accuracy necessary to measure h e <hes> and that's especially elite if the person is moving ray and so <hes> there's a lot of noise in the signal that at the wrist and if you're moving at all which these devices are designed to encourage movement <hes> and also be there for when you exercise if you're moving at all you just can't get accurate h._i._v. Data from that location in today's technology and for people who are listening who maybe you're familiar with the chest strap that are now going to the internet to find al gore sense. How does the core sense <unk> work for measuring h._r. V. during movement is this more for passive or can you actually put it on and go for a run so what we found and is that <hes> so i quickly answer your question. No courses designed to be used at rest when you're not moving so you can stand or you can meditate or do breathing exercises that type of stuff but <hes> it's not intended to be wondering extra exercise. We have received questions about if people could swim with it. <hes> it's that would be really interesting anyways but it is not designed for that <hes> but what we found in the reason why we designed it. This way is that people have their watch or their <hes> wearable device that they like <hes> usually it has a bunch of features like like g._p._s. built into it or <hes> emojis and text messages something like that right and it's also fashion fashionable so there's a lot a lot of people competing for that spot on the risks that are catering to all of these diverse needs that you have well when it comes to h._r. V. what we saw is in the research search in the data that we've gathered over millions of millions of readings that we now have in our platform is that the most important time to measure is right when you wake up in the morning or her at some set interval that only takes like one to five minutes and so you really just need like one rested measurement per day for for a few minutes and you'd have like the majority of the value of tracking h._i._v. on an ongoing basis and and so <hes> having that use case in mind and having most of our users behave that way hundreds of thousands of people is we're like well okay instead of trying to put something on your risks that you're going to have to wear all the time or something else that you're going to have to wear all the time. Why don't we just empower people to to measure accurate h._i._v. as quickly and easily as possible. They can just slip it on their finger. Measure at rest and then put it down and you're done and you get all the data that you need to make better decisions and that's why we design courses that form factor. I know that some people are gonna listen to this and say well. Why should i buy additional device as somebody who started out with a chest strap in his three hundred days in a row into measuring a h._r. v. I can say that we're getting up in the morning rolling over picking up the chest strap wasting the chest strap attaching the stress strap than waiting three to five five minutes for your heart rate to go back down is much more of a pain in the butt than reaching over and grabbing this little device that goes on your finger so you may have a different way or a better explanation for that but it's somebody who uses the device painful retail retail jason to give it to me. That's why i bought the core sense thank you. I appreciate that yeah so i i agree <unk>. I have a pile of chess straps. <hes> because over the years we've tested all sorts of them. <hes> and i we still do new tests are app with <unk> straps to make sure that it's still functions for the people who prefer that but every time i go to put it on the wet chester around the thing i've always like because i'm so used to using my arcor since of course but <hes> yeah it's it's exactly that <hes> <hes> it's it's it reduces the friction but keeps the accuracy and the same reason why research labs are switching from their multi not league adhesives to assess strap and or core sense is because when you reduce the friction you're able to get a better <hes> outcome outcome generally <hes> like you mentioned you had to wait three to five minutes for your heart rate to come down when you're getting up fiddling with the chest strap and having to do that every day can create enough friction to where you just ditch the habit and again kind of coming back around to y y extra device. That's just as for h._i._v. is h._i._v. Even worth extra device <hes> and that kinda comes back to earlier heart rate bers h._i._v. Some of the things i explained there but <hes> h._i._v. is now been clinically validated as one of the most comprehensive biomarkers of health and fitness that you can measure from home and so this tool is exploding an interest rate now because of the power of what you can get out of the data and so again having this little device on your bedside table waking up popping on your finger for two minutes and then moving on with your day gives you a huge advantage if you're trying aimed to achieve any health or fitness related goal or even stress related cognitive goals the popular too and so that's why people do it and i know that from being a user of the elite h._i._v. app you get a number. If you don't wanna drop down the rabbit hole you get a number or score and i also so notice that what you get when you whether you use the core censor the elite h._i._v. Is you get the number of artifacts so you may get a score of fifty and if if you can kind of i explain this what what the score means for somebody who may be says i don't want to download a giant spreadsheet and then talk a little bit about artifacts and when somebody's is using this device i learned very early on if my dog is lying touching me and touching the chest strap. I get a lot of artifacts kinda describe what artifacts is are aren't for somebody. Who's using the device what percentage artifacts you say okay. Maybe i should throw this reading out and remeasure <hes> by h._r. V. yeah what a great question so again. You know you highlighting the importance of accuracy. I'll come back to that though <hes> for the score what we found is that there's so many different statistical values that fall under the umbrella term h._r. V. and so we were giving all the raw data back to users which attracted attracted our early audiences of people who are into the research already in the early days and were willing to take these raw data's and go compare it to <hes> <hes> research studies and things like that while really quickly word of mouse up pretty much. All of our growth on the platform has been word of mouth. <hes> the people were like okay. My friend told me i should measure h._r. V. they convince me <hes> now. I got it and now have all this data. What do i do so <unk> a we started to make that a little bit easier in the app and make <hes> so we developed our h._r. V. score so i was kind of the first step to say this is a one to one hundred score score and at the end of your reading which is one to two minutes usually for most people <hes> you get an h._i._v. score and the score basically tells you okay have you are you depleted or are you relatively recovered or you know what's the general state of your body right now ray and so that was kinda. Step one get one hundred score. The average score across the population sixty and our elite athletes get up into the eighties sometimes sometimes <hes> even potentially close to ninety <hes> that's pretty rare and then people who are battling a little bit more with their health in general roll make a drop down into the thirties forties <hes> hopefully not too much lower than that but we do have people who have a more severe health conditions that are down in the teams in twenty s on that resting measurement that score also tells you you have a graph that tells you whether your score is more towards the sympathetic nervous system being active versus the parasite pathetic nervous system yeah so that's the next step there so are h._i._v. V scores the one no one hundred then what we found is that people wanted <hes> a little bit more about okay. So what do i do if my score goes up or down like a few points that's right and so we developed what we call our morning readiness score from there and so that's kind of like a daily baseline <hes> evaluation relation of that h._r. V. score so if you're h._i._v. Score has gone up or down <hes> our algorithms look for patterns in automatically and takes some of the analysis out of it for you and then provides you a gauge that has a green yellow and red light of kind of how how based on your h._r. V. you know generally. How's your body doing in balance or is it kind of outta balanced towards that stress side of the equation that sympathetic nervous system side or is it out of balance towards the recovery side which also can be negative <hes> towards that para sympathetic aside and so yep just like you mentioned <hes> each morning you get a little green yellow red light indicating how ready your body is handle more stressed us today and what people do is again coming back to that elevator pitch you say hey we got a green yellow red as to whether or not your body audie your mind can handle more stress today in this is just <hes> in all likelihood <hes> and if you're getting a achieve some type of long-term turn positive outcome by piling it on or so people are like well. I still have to go to work right so you know what we recognize is is that life doesn't stop because you got a yellow or red score in the morning. Most people can't just say yellow-red turnover. I'm going back to sleep sleep in all. I'll try again tomorrow for life. <hes> m but what i can help you do is let's say that managing your weight is <hes> a goals that you have on that yellow red day your willpower and motivation to avoid bad decisions with regards to snacking or or the type of food that you buy or eat is going to be lower. Statistically speaking and research shows us that lower h._r. V. statistically leads to <hes> less favorable decision making and so you may say okay yellow red. I'm going to go into this work. Day is knowing that my willpower might be a little depleted. So what i'm gonna do is either. Try to bring a snack with me. That's not to dan imaging or avoid the break room because i know that there's donuts in there or going to always keep a water bottle with me because a lot of times when i'm hungry actually thirsty and so i'll drink that water and and wait two minutes and then see if i've actually hungry right so that's like a way that you can use the data. You don't have to change your whole life. It's just a small way to make katrina and then over time you should see improvements in the data and also in your goal and then the other side of the equation the movement an exercise piece which a lot of people use h._r. v. for let's say you work out a for professional athletes. Sometimes it's twice twice today like six days a week <hes> and they're not gonna change their whole routine because they woke up on the wrong side of the bed for example <hes> but what they can do is make more macro level changes because they are more advanced athletes that trine all the time they can say okay this week. I'm gonna push it next week since i've accumulated a lot of load from last week i'm you a cut my overall load for the coming week and usually they'll have a coach. That's working with them on that but for the everyday person who says okay i work out maybe <hes> monday wednesday friday or tuesday thursday or maybe one day a week something like that if you wake up and you get a yellow red score and that's the only day of the week that you're gonna exercise or that you have time to exercise. That's okay. Hey <hes> you wanna be aware of injury. Potential because statistically speaking <hes> injuries are more likely to occur when you're depleted so just be the aware of that but aside from that it's okay to still exercise because exercise is a very positive stress and it's probably better for you to still do that and make adjustments to everything else than to skip the exercise movement and the other things so again. If you have flexibility you can move the exercise to the next day also a fair way to approach it <hes> but otherwise i really encourage movement and exercise and adjusting everything else which would be okay. I know him depleted. I'm going to exercise. Maybe i'll try to do five or ten minutes of deep breathing exercises this evening joining before bed or maybe i'll try to go to bed an hour earlier at thirty minutes earlier. Try to get a little bit of extra recovery because what happens opens is if you're in the lower red if you're depleted and then you push it hard and you don't add any additional recovery and you don't don't prioritize the recovery from that is that you're actually kind of shooting yourself in the foot and so the way that we make improvements in our the body or mind is we challenge ourselves which kind of breaks down a little bit like challenging your muscles right when you lift weights but but then on the recovery side is where you actually make the improvement and so when you lift way to kind of break your muscles down you don't instantly get stronger so otherwise otherwise you could just keep lifting heavier and heavier weights in the moment right. You're actually just get weaker so to speak as you <hes> train in that <hes> scenario scenario but then when you recover your muscles rebuild over the course of days sometimes weeks depending on the type of exercise in your experience level and and that's when your muscles get stronger your endurance gets better your heart gets healthier your body and mind get a more advanced and adapt is through that recovery process <unk>. You push it hard when you depleted. You're just pushing yourself further down and <hes> it's not actually leading to the improvements that you're trying trying to get in the beginning and somebody's getting a score and they see that they have zero artifacts. They have five artifacts or ten artifacts. What is an artifact and at what point did they say you know. Maybe i oughta just reboot the app and spend another one to three minutes taking a jarvi score again yeah good question <hes> yeah the the morning check in is great for folks that also embrace it as a time to check in with themselves each day. We kind of launch into our day and sometimes people are just like <hes>. I don't even have one minute to vote to myself before i launch into my day and that's it's a sad story. <hes> and i know from experience that that can happen. I've been a very busy with a recent baby and in a thriving and growing business and all that and try to exercise but to your point <hes> when you take that reading we try to be very open and transparent about the quality the data that you're recording and so we've been really strict from that from the beginning which is why we also now show you the quality of the signal that we're receiving i'm from the heart rate monitor and so when the app <hes> when you take the reading it shows you a a gauge of how many artifacts which artifacts are basically nose in signal <hes> or false heartbeats things like that things that lead to a calculation that may be wrong is essentially what we're talking about here but when it correct to say that the h._r. v. app and what you're using to measure the heart rate are tools and you have to look at the data critically artifacts are helping you look at the data critically to realize for example sitting with your cat on your chest while you're doing it may not be the best way to get the the best signal yes yeah that's exactly right yeah and the the term that people use indeed various industries is garbage in garbage out so so you know basically you could put your kind of like when people put their step counters on their on their dog. It's like okay if all your goal is to maximize your steps and you just want to put it on your dog so that your friends get jealous that you stepped one hundred thousand times today <hes> then fine but if you're actually trying to learn about yourself you on an accurate that counter that's actually showing you the number of steps you did that day and <hes> steps is a very limited use case limited value add <hes> thing but <hes> the same goes for h._r. Re so if you have a crappy signal in your <hes> for example. If you're using a monitor that's not accurate or if you're moving around bunch or if you have something else going on that's adding noise to that signal then you're really not getting a good view of what's going on underneath the surface and and and we think it's important to be honest with yourself and also we want to be honest with you when we say green yellow red <hes> so that's why we try to help flag <unk> stink were receiving noisy signal and <hes> so yeah like you said <hes> taking that <hes> two minutes to restart start the reading if we give you a bad signal rating <hes> one of the things that we're doing right now which will be released pretty. Soon is a building that into the reading itself so that you don't have to wait till the end of the reading to understand that and again we're still talking only one to two minutes for most people <hes> by even so be better to find out in thirty seconds than in one to two minutes so <hes> we're kinda building a lot of that into the reading now <hes> so that while you're taking the reading we in kinda give little warnings if we think that the signal is losing quality or <hes> if we if we think that there's something else that you need to do and so that'd be kinda built in very gracefully hopefully <hes> so as not to distract but yeah signal quality and accuracy are very important and that's something we've been in strict from the beginning hence why we have that signal quality rating at the end of every reading and i'm curious my i don't know why i have done this kind of like my in theory or my practice has been. I take my h._i._v. For three minutes every morning and my rule of thumb is if i see three percent or greater artifacts i redo it is that am i being too strict or is that what you is <hes> after the upper would say that's a good value yet. No i mean i think that's a pretty good goal to have <hes> <hes> and so yeah. I think that's fine. <hes> we have some <hes> ratings built in <hes> to the signal to the artifact detection that help you know if it's kind of in the green the lower the red is our as artifacts goes as well and we're kind of refining in tuning that over time what we're finding in missile be this kind of cool for the future for people who like to geek out on data is that we can get smarter about the types of artifacts that for detecting and so we kind of treat all artifacts as signal noise right now that that leads to a lower <hes> signal quality rating but but different types of artifacts are actually <hes> more or less impactful to the scoring and so we're building that <hes> indulged or algorithms and trying to automate all of that so that you don't have to worry about it <hes> but yeah you know basically trying to keep the reading as clean as possible a good goal another rule of thumb that some people like to have there's one artifact permanent of readings so <hes> if you do a three minute reading and you have three artifacts and you're kind of on the fence a little bit there <hes> but if you have ten artifacts in the three minute reading and that's probably a good candidate to toss out on redo and <hes> the other thing too is the algorithm the more artifacts you have percentage wise the harder it is for us to differentiate artifacts from reality right because we you have to compare the artifacts to something and so for trying to compare it. If you have like half the signals artifacts in half the signal is normal heart rate data data than we can differentiate at but it becomes harder algorithm medically to pick out each and every beat from that <hes> versus kind of wins a nice clean signal and so it's better to have as clean as you can from the start <hes> like you said if you see higher artifacts or three eight percent or maybe more than one per minute in might be a good candidate to toss out. We're talking with jason moore. He is the founder of elite h._r. V. we've been talking about heart rate variability ludi with a big emphasis of kind of setting aside. It's one to three minutes in the morning as your time kind of set yourself for the day and measure. Where is your for lack of a better terms. Stress levels is the day to do the hard workout or not one of the things we haven't mentioned that i think it's important to mention that the app does do and jason alluded to the fact that we have so so much going on around us that we have high levels of stress is you can also use the app with a chest strap or the core sense finger device to do guided. Breathing's you kind of describe that a little bit. I know a lot of people say well. I like to go to yoga class or i like to do my meditation. You can use this device in or or this app and do guided breathing an essential essentially do your own meditation and see if it actually works you actually allowing yourself to become some calmer and more centered yeah you know. Meditation and mindfulness and breathing exercises are all becoming very popular moore as well 'cause they're great tools to combat the <hes> modern world that we live in as far as stress management goes <hes> but they're also being used in high i performance sports <hes> physical sports and cognitive sports so executives trying to make great businesses <hes> stock market traders golfers i right before they golf swing <hes> basketball right before the free throw gymnastics right before the dismount <hes> you're breathing and in all of the things that are associated with breathing have a strong impact on your body and it provides a tool that you can control that gives you <hes> actual control over your nervous system and so this concept is called a biofeedback where we measure something about our body in this case h._r. V. than we use some tool or tactic in this case breathing to gain control roll over something that we previously didn't have control over so if i if you are in the elevator with me. Let's say we just met and i said please rebalance your nervous the system <hes> turnoff that fight or flight response and please up your digestion and <hes> you know lower blood sugar police and i'm waving my hands on the screen. I noticed what we that will be posted the audio but it sounds pretty ridiculous sale of that but essentially what we can do through h._r. V. biofeedback and breathing is that we can short circuit that <hes> process and also gained control over so when you alter your breathing patterns your nervous system doesn't have a choice but to respond accordingly because your respiratory system and your nervous system are deeply integrated so when you start breathing longer and slower especially longer exhales than that actually naturally calms down the nervous system system and lowers your heart rate and lowers your blood pressure and <hes> in many cases can allow you to think clearer if you're kind of in a buzzy <hes> kind the hetty sympathetic state and so <hes> meditation breeding practices these types of things are thousands of years his old and <hes> if not tens of thousands millions depend i don't know <hes> and but anyways as far as our modern culture culture goes thousands of years old and but before there was not really a way to measure to know if it was working for you or not or if you're doing it correctly and so that's the problem we run into today. Is people are always wondering. Am i doing this right. I don't know and they're very distracted. They me me included. We are very distracted. <hes> there's phones. There's computers. There's people talking to us. There's things we need to do tomorrow. Things we need to do next week thing. We forgot to do last last week. All of these things go on and it helps us kind of focusing on one thing and say okay. I'm just going to sit down for five minutes. Let's practice my breathing patterns. We provide a little visualization in the app and some audio. If you want <hes> so you can kind of close your eyes in here. It's same breathe in breathe out or you can just watch kinda count. The breaths <hes> that way but the goal here is to raise up that h._r. V. score score in the moment in so h._o._v. Response in real time to your changes in stress and recovery and your mindset and the balance onto your nervous system which makes it a great tool for this live feedback so as you can do. Is you know put on meditation. If you want listening to one or you can just sit down and do a body scan. If people have heard of that or you can do different breathing patterns specifically like long slow exiles or are great a place to start and see what your h._i._v. does immediately in the moment is your h._r. If you're h._i._v. starts going up and you start to see a smoother up and down pattern in <hes> on the on our visualization on the screen then you know that you're having an impact on your nervous system and that's really cool you because <hes> <hes> again coming back to the elevator pitch. If i told you hey in sixty seconds or less you can learn to gain control of your nervous system and rampant rev it up or turn it down based on what what you need. People would be like wow that sounds like science fiction and you know again. My love hate relationship. Technology is technology is helping us to rediscover things about ourselves that generations ago people might have known through a trial and error <hes> or things that we do naturally for example simple <hes> before doing a free throw in basketball or golf swing or dismounting from a gymnastics move or weightlifting for example yeah so yeah hopefully that kind of helps scribe <hes> and you can play with different patterns and see what works best for you again. Kind of our motto is everybody's in a unique snowflake so see what works best for you and measure and see how it goes. We've been talking with jason moore. He's the founder of delete h._r. V. I think he's given a pretty accurate baseline description of what h._r. V. is how you can use it within their app. If you wanted to learn more if you're you're like me and you have access to lots and lots of research articles through my university library. You have something that you also offer. I think a couple of times a year which i took last summer you have a h._r. V. class people can take and it's not how to use the lead h._i._v. Advocates for more information on learning more about h._r. V. the background behind it and i know it's only open certain times of the year if he cut a briefly talk about that before we finish up sure yet so h._r. V. course dot com <hes> <hes> and essentially the reason why we made that is because again. I talked about in the early days of the business. We started receiving thousands of emails. I've i have purchased personally answered. Fifteen thousand plus emails from <hes> people are asking us questions about h._i._v. and how it works. What's the science all that stuff and our team has done double or triple that easily <hes> and we were like okay. Can we provide a comprehensive resource. The guides people about foundational science of h._i._v. and how than that as applied to the real world with regards to exercise sleep sleep nutrition stress management <hes> some of the you know the key pillars that we have at our lives as far as lifestyle in wellness goes to you getting better results and outcomes and so it's called the foundations of h._r. V. course and again. It starts from the ground up. You don't need to be physiologist allergists to understand it <hes> and it really kind of walks you through the baseline levels of <hes> the baseline science of stress and the stress response in the body and why that matters and how that relates to the nervous system and then how that relates to h._r. V. and the various numbers of h._i._v. that you might see out in the world or in research and then how those translate to the real world application peace and we actually have had physiologists in doctors take it. They say that they've learned a lot from it which is really scary in one <hes> sense but we're also glad to be able to teach people about this <hes> but again you you don't have to be that deep of into the research already to benefit from it. We've been talking to jason moore. He's the founder of elite h._r. V. you you can download the elite h._r. V. lab from apple itunes or there's also a droid up actually apple apps that apple itunes and we will have extensive show notes of the variety bridie of links that he linked to jason. I want to thank you for taking time to talk to moving to live. I know that h._r. V. can be a very good tool. If you want to improve your movement quality or maybe you're starting movement practice. I wanna make sure you're doing things the right way healthly so jason thanks for talking to moving to list awesome yeah. Thanks for for inviting me. It's been a great discussion and <hes> you know i'm happy to help people <hes> figure out how they can move more often in a higher quality as much which is i can so i keep on keeping on because you're doing a great thing here and thanks for listening to the latest episode of moving to live. They sure you check out the show notes for contact information for latest guest as well as links about all the things we talked about out intern exit. Music is travelling light by jason shaw. You can subscribe to moving to live on stitcher apple podcasts and google play and be notified about new episode releases have any questions comments suggestions. Drop us an email emo v. number two l. i. V. at g mail dot com next with us on twitter or instagram both underscore ammo v. number two ally. 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