July 15: Low bar
I'm Keith. MacArthur unlocking bryson's brain is a podcast about my son I am. The rare disease that keeps him from walking or talking Bryson's perfect. His life is really hard, and our families search for a cure. Oh my Gosh! Maybe science is ready for this. It's part memoir part medical mystery. We can do just about anything modifying DNA Heart in my throat cure. His controversial unlocking braces brain. Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. This is a CBC podcast. Hello I'm Nico off and I'm Ali Hassan. This is as it happens the podcast edition. Tonight Low bar young people in Montreal are turning up for Cova nineteen tests by the hundreds after the city told all bargo hours to get swabbed. The influx though has testing facilities overwhelmed a nightmare on repeat. We reach a former federal day school survivor, who says the settlement process is broken and worse. It's adding to his trauma. Cold Comfort after Washington vows to change the name of its football team. Pressure is on once again for Edmonton to do the same. Our guest says it should not have taken this long for Canada to see. Are Not Mascots. Molecular Virologist flossie Wong Stall. She was a pioneer. Of HIV. AIDS research colleague WHO's hard at work on a vaccine. Today tells us he's still drawing on lessons learned from her work chimp off the old block. It's been sixty years since Jane Goodall I walked into a forest in Tanzania to creatures that would change her life. You'll hear the time. She made chimpanzee sounds for the CBC and a real whopper Burger. King claims it has produced a newer lower emission burger from cows who release less climate-damaging methane. An expert in the field tells us he suspects. It's all a bunch of hot air as it happens. The Wednesday edition radio that has to admit we're having a gas. Quebec's Kobe nine hundred numbers are going the wrong way. More than one hundred new infections are cropping up per day. The province is falling well short of its stated testing goals, and among those who are getting tested positive tests are up. Dr David Kaiser is a physician with the public. Health Authority for the island of Montreal. Before. The weekend we were at a rate of about. One percent, which means one positive test out of every hundred that is done and what we saw from tests that are coming in over the last few days is a rate at three percent, so that's three times as many positive tests. Per hundred tests that are done and including the large increase in the actual number of tests that tells us is there really is something there. That is worth continuing. To deal with that? There are cases that wouldn't necessarily have been detected and that bringing young people out to get tested is going to help us with the public health response. There is some good news. Young people are listening to the city's call for bar goers in particular to get tested since the weekend thousands of head swap stuck in their noses, but testing facilities in the Montreal area. In lineups are very very long Kevin O'CONNELL is the general manager at Annie's pub in Bellevue on the city's West Island. Last week, the pub shut down after a staff member tested positive for covid nineteen today they reopened. We reached Mister O'CONNELL in Montreal. Mister O'CONNELL. Tell me about the decision to shut down any last week. so yeah last week, one of. Her staff members who is in administration, who normally doesn't deal with customers or staff was pitching in on the weekend to help us out because we were extremely busy, and unfortunately he came down with some symptoms, so he went immediately to get tested, and when results came back as positive, we decided to shut down the restaurant so that we can get everybody tested. Because unfortunately, he had come into contact with people in the restaurant. Part of an extended amount, but he contact with people in restaurants, so we closed down sent everyone over testing, and it took four days or so to get everyone's results back, but fortunately everybody on staff came back negative so once. That was the case we decided to reopen today. That's a relief I bet to get. All of those tests smack negative huge release. The four days were hard. It was a voluntary shutdown because we just couldn't. We can guarantee a safe environment for our staff or for the community or the Patriots. So out of an abundance of. Caution. We as I said, we'd closed down, but once we got the results back. There was a sense of relief for sure, and we opened back up. However, we changed the of the the procedures now, so we eliminated the bar. We have a bar area, but we've. We're not allowing people to sit at the bar anymore and we are no longer allowing walk up service, so anybody in the restaurant will have to remain at. At their table for service, and we're required to wear masks inside the establishment now so like a lot of places. I bet the the patio space. The outdoor space is a big part of your business, but it's interesting. What you what you said just at the start of our chat about how busy it was the day that person who normally works at administration came into contact with everyone. People are still coming out. Yeah it was July first weekend was that Friday Saturday and Sunday we had an extreme amount of business it was it was encouraging in one sense. But obviously, something happened. We don't know I. Don't know if my staff member was infected here or elsewhere, and and maybe brought it to the work, but. With it, not passing to anyone, we feel like you know. The security measures. We have in place were effective. So, but you're right. There were a lot of people out that weekend and There was a lot of people are not. Paying attention to the social distancing, so that's why we've implemented. The rules of Table Service only know Galeano walking around. We wanted to maintain the. The secure feeling for everybody, so it's we're going to be pretty much doing our business on the terrorist known. What was your experience getting tested like? well, I went to a walking, because I wanted to get done as fast as possible. The general manager here so I was hoping to get my results as quick as possible. Unfortunately, the walk in clinic I went to at six hundred people show up that day. And I was two hundred in line, so it took me four hours for the test, and in three and a half days for the results, so three and a half days were tough. I was at home quarantined in my bedroom. 'cause I have a family so I couldn't leave my bedroom for three and a half days until I got the results, but fortunately they came back negative. That's a relief. It was a huge relief. What's your reaction to all of the LINEUPS? Not just the one that you experienced since the city started encouraging all of these bargo whereas to get tested. I wish they had maybe foreseen that there was gonna be a big surge in demand, and maybe he had. The testing centers prepared for the volume. But apart from that I think it was a good idea to get the message out. Because in the beginning we were str- like we put the message on our facebook that you know there was a positive test, and that's why we were closing. We wanted to message out there and then people are asking us, are we? You know they're going to be an announcement to the public as well as on our hands into the government. When it had made it that announcement, so I was relieved that they made the announcement, since it took the pressure off of us and told everyone to go get tested, and the lineups show that people were concerned to find out if they were. Infected or not, so I think that's a good thing. Just wish there was more. Looking at the volume of people who've tested, so our colleague said CBC. Montreal, McGill Microbiology and immunology. Chair Dr Don Shepherd about this how he felt about bars opening up in Quebec I. WanNa play you a little bit of what he said. You know what happens when you open bars, and you have one case of someone in a bar you have spread and people should understand. This is very likely to happen. Then asked them. Is this really the best way for them to be acting at this point and it worth the risk. I actually think we're reaping a little bit. What we so when it comes to opening the bars in particular. What do you say to his concerns? I, he's you know he's got a valid point there for sure. We have. Eliminated bar service in essence because like I agree with him in that sense that the people congregating around bars is not very. Conducive to. Stifling the break, so we're operating his restaurant, so we're not the operator of the party more because we don't think that we can provide a safe environment for patrons. And you're coming into contact with so many people. You've talked about telling customers. They have to wear masks when they come. What's the response been because we've certainly heard and seen in places across the United States, for example, even here in Canada that some people are averse to taking that measure. So so far today we since eleven o'clock a everybody's been. Told that they will be required to wear a mask. If they come insight, do use our facilities and one hundred people have either had their own mask or willingly taken one from us, and not giving us any kind of addity. Oh I think that bodes well. There's the mandatory masks requirement being place as of Saturday province-wide goal hopefully that sort of. People ready for for it but I haven't encountered any resistance today. If there is another positive case, and we certainly hope there is not of covid nineteen at any pub. What your plan to do the same thing? Would if it happens again. I went to ensure that everybody would be tested and but we would have to reexamine this situation going forward after that if if it happened on for a second time. Does that mean that we can't provide a safe environment? So you know myself and the The rest of the management and ownership would would have to sit down and have a hard heart discussion about future. Stroke, on, I hope it is all things considered a good season for you and your staff. Thanks so much for your time. My pleasure have a nice day. Take Care bye-bye. Kevin O'CONNELL is the general manager of Annie's pub in Montreal, and that's where we reached him. They haven't been able to get on the field, but the Edmonton Eskimos defense is still keeping busy. For years, the Canadian football team has been under pressure to change its name amid accusations that it is racist, an outdated, but now that scrutiny may be at a tipping point with the team sponsors weighing in and the promises by another football team. WASHINGTON'S NFL team to change its name and logo not to know bed is the president of Canada's national. ORGANIZATION INUIT TAP Kinda. Tommy. We reached him in Ottawa. Mr Obama earlier this week Washington, retired, it's NFL teams, name and logo. How closely do you think that was being watched in Edmonton? I would hope there would be a clear sense of connection between the forces. The made Washington retire as Racist Editions Monitor. With the continued use of the. Name here in Canada. When you do here at Minton's team name or see that logo? How does it affect you personally? It's been used against the as an ethics splur- so. There's. A whole host of things that brings up in me about the treatments that I've had as. An indigenous person. And it also is a reminder that even in twenty twenty. This country Canada is okay. With its continued use. And that speaks to me about how far we need to go on the conciliation and I can't wait until I don't have to see that name. Not Word appear across media in this country visited last place where that term used on a day-to-day basis, and only because you know, we made that happen. Talking about it in a way as you say, helps, get to this point. That are you tired of frustrated by having to keep talking about it? It's. Really difficult for me to see the ongoing online abuse. That has been targeted against me and it goes new because of this conversation. I'm tired of having to explain why using editions, people as mascots. Monikers is fundamentally wrong. because. These teams are not indigenous owned teams. These aren't names that are coming from within US aside. And I don't understand why. People can't just understand that. Just, the man, the teams change and move on with the sport. Leave US alone. We may be getting to that point earlier this year though the team wrapped up a three year long reviews saying it would keep the name after finding quote. No consensus now they've launched a second review which included a survey about potential name change, did you? Did you see that survey and if you did? What did you make of it? It is see that survey. Straw polls on racism are unethical. The fact that many enemies. Have stated very publicly. But. That term has been used against on racial slur. As an ethnic slur and is derogatory. Should. Really be taken to heart by the team. Yes there are innovator okay with the turn. There are some intimate who support the use of that name. But nothing is going to displace those who have been devastated by the use of that name. That's why this seems to go to protect those who have been hurt by it and reconcile with the fact that we are living breathing, Canadian and indigenous people. We're not placing for a sports, organization or city. For our listeners, who who may not be aware of what was in the survey, it asked among other things whether the term eskimo is disrespectful of Innuendo or indigenous people. It also asked whether there's quote too much. Cancel culture today. It isn't up to a non ambitious person. To wait, and this isn't a debate. It can't be a debate. You don't see this happening against any other ethnicity in this country this time. And I want to thank Boston Pizza and also Belair direct who have? Either threatened to or overdrawing their sponsorship of the team and I would then question preparations like tsn Tim Hortons tell us. Is this what your brand releasing as well? It is time to change this name. This survey also says the team chose its name more than a century ago out of quote, acknowledgement, perseverance and hardiness of any culture. What do you think when you hear that? The broader use of indigenous mascots in sports across North America was largely predicated on the idea of a noble savage, also on the idea that indigenous peoples were going to die out. And that was a widely held belief in late eighteen hundreds of early. So the idea of celebrating a society that was destined to be obliterated off the face of the earth. And celebrating the traits that a nonindigenous society they have about an indigenous people that they've never met her interacted with. was highly offensive, then even though it was socially acceptable and even more offensive, no. I wonder. Do you think all of the conversations? Happening now suggests that things are different now and that a change to the name may actually come. In large part to focus on flak last night or movement, and then mazing, what happened from black community mobilizing and those allies of particularly but. It is now than progress into support for indigenous rights and pushing back against then racism. So it makes me optimistic that. We're able to see things that we might not have ever thought would be possible lifetimes. I have no idea how this particular issue is going to play out. But I'm heartened by all of the things that have happened in the last few months whether it be the removal of statues that celebrate people who've committed genocide. Or whether it is this renewed focus on a practice of? Non Indigenous Communities and corporations taking on indigenous mass causing monikers as if somehow. Are Honoring our respective. Dishes People's. Thank you so much for your time. Thank you for the opportunity take, care you, too. Not Tano bed is the president of inner Top Tommy Canada's National Inuit Organization. He was in Ottawa. School. Burger King wants you to know something. The cows they use to make their burgers emit gas, and they plan to do something about it to reduce those emissions, so they hired Mason Ramsey also known as the Walmart Yodeling kid to sing a little ditty about cow, burps and farts take a listen. release. M, men met. Does, do the. and. Walk? Change our. J.. Grizz just me. The AD goes on to say that. Burger King has developed a new cattle feed. That includes lemongrass at the company claims reduces methane emissions by about a third, but some scientists think that claim may not pass the smell test. Frank Mitt Learner researches emission mitigation in livestock at the University of California Davis. That's where we reached him. So I don't know whether to say you're welcome or I'm sorry to our listeners professor meet the owner. What was your first thought when you saw and heard this new Burger? King add. Well I was quite conflicted. I have to say because On the one hand I applaud Burger King Foot taking this issue of greenhouse gases from livestock, and thus from the put that they serve seriously so you know finding negation efforts and funding mitigation efforts for researchers, not for me by my colleagues in different places. That's positive what I do not like at all is the hook they used because they are trying to make it a laughing matter when it is serious. And that the basis of the whole piece, which is the mitigation effective of LEMONGRASS has not really been published yet. So in one study it was found to be inconclusive and the in the other study it was written up in a report, but never published, and so with such unsure results, I would not go out to the world and say here. We have something that everybody should know. Go and run with. Claim is that they've found a feed that reduces emissions. By thirty three percent. There was another study about lemongrass in cattle feed done as I understand it by one of your. UC Davis colleagues. What did that one find? It was inconclusive because the type of lemon grass was fed to those cows. Was Not effective in reducing. And? It's believed that it didn't have enough of the active ingredient, which is ten in it. I understand your colleague was using a different kind of lemongrass and the researchers in Mexico, who worked with Burger King were using? How much of a difference might that make? That might make a lot of difference because if the active ingredient is different in concentration than the result will be different as well. What do you think Burger King is basing that claim on that? I mentioned to the claim about the thirty three percent reduction of emissions. Five I know solely on the study from Mexico But as I said, this is not a published study, and so in my opinion, this is pretty shaky ground and we should be clear I think the producers want me to say these words on as it happens, but. It's not. FARTS! That are the issue. It's burps when we're talking about cows and methane emissions right? Yeah, there are two sources of methane kettle. The one is enteric emissions, and that's methane coming from the rumen from the stomach of those animals that have belched out, and the second source is waste that these animals produce, and which overtime emits gases when that waste decomposes, but it's not an excellent. Important to notes. And we should point out here that your own research isn't funded or backed at all by the beef industry. The other factor is when, and how long as I understand it. The cows are actually eating this feed. So how should that factor into the claims Burger? King is making. So think about the life span of a beef animal being fourteen to sixteen months. So that is approximately the time they are life. And only the last third of their lives, they are in the feet lot the rest of their lives there are on pasture, and so if you truly want to have a thirty three percent reduction of methane, then you would have to show that reduction throughout the entire life cycle that animal and not just finishing face. And so, that also was not considered in their reporting, so it's not really reducing the overall footprint. If it does then by no more than maybe five or ten percent at most. So Burger. King has already selling. It's reduced. Methane emissions beef whopper catchy, maybe not as catchy. A title as the song might be, it's it's being sold in some American cities now. So how many people do you think we'll? We'll hear that ad that. And just. I don't know. Swallow it whole so to speak. I don't know that's that's the question I answered, but what I do know is that most people will not. The nuance around all of this. We'll just believe what they are being told and. I find it kind of unfortunate that the company didn't wait. Until, they had real clarity around what this stuff does, and how well or so it works. Why do you think the company decided to do this now? Is it perhaps because of the pandemic will one hand business maybe slower on the other, though you know sort of more captive audience and hungry, if I can use that word for these kinds of cute funny videos, then end up going viral. Well as you said, it is a cute video and It's catchy and the usual are used, and they want to show that they care can. That's good thing. They want to show that they care and and I support that. But in my opinion, that didn't go about this the right way and that will customs credibility. Sentence of their video was since we are part of the problem, we are working to be part of the solution. No I totally agree with that statement and that being a good moto one that I would agree I do myself. Yeah in my lab at UC Davis but. If you proclaim that what you're doing is scientifically sound and has been proven by major universities, and so on, and then people look into this and find nothing then you are risking reputational damage. Professor Turner. This has been a fascinating conversation. I'm so glad we could chat. Well. Thank you for having me appreciate it. Take Care You, too. Frank Meet Learner is a professor in the Department of Animal, science at UC Davis. We reached him in Davis California. He smashed pretty much. Every billboard and streaming record that matters has already been strained more than a billion. People still to this day. Point to this is the moment everything changed, but whether you agree with those claims or not, this podcast is really about him either you're. An astute businessman or you're inherently racist when it comes to black music country, this is not a drake podcast available now on CBC listen or wherever you get your podcasts. I told the court that I'm wrong to. ME. To. Use One, small man! Giant wheel. I do wish to say official that I'm wrongfully right now. Uncover season seven. Dead Wrong. killed. If they may, be. Available on CBC listen and wherever. You get your podcasts. At the start of this year, thousands of former federal day school students were able to start applying for compensation day. Schools like residential schools were designed to assimilate indigenous students while stripping away their languages and cultures. Some of those schools operated into the nineteen nineties, but for Wilfrid Bolio the process hasn't been easy seven months later. He's left confused by the delays. Mr Bolio is a day school survivor in Fort. Resolution in the Northwest Territories matters where we reached him and a note for our listeners. This interview contains descriptions of abuse. Mr Bolio Kenny you take us back about seven months or so when you were filling out. Day School claim. What's the process of filling out that claim like? Reprocess, filling claim about getting was. CUTTING BEEN EMOTIONAL PARTLY It's time to. Go back and let's do all. All the abuse and school that happened in federal day school, so I had to go backtrack along wage back into the sixties. Until Lake was six years old. Nineteen sixty six. So there's a lot of backtracking and when I did Kinda Bach. To where really wanted to start from? From there this they To Stay Ben some ties all over again. There are five levels of compensation as I understand it. The level one doesn't ask for for a lot of Specific proof of what happened levels two to five require a bit more. Which one did you apply for? Salmon, one of those levels to? When I I did told me. Is GonNa take? Two hundred ten days until they go to payment. On my two hundred day I called him back. Just to get a status. Update as two things on my claim, after I give them on my information to who I am like my sin number date of birth. Like got in partner told me. Of My. Case was still under review. It was another. We were talking you told me. To. Cut Me off, is it? Something time to get hold of you yesterday. And you said the reason wiser timing. Because! My application was incomplete. Emits on hold. Did they tell you how you can fix that situation? Awesome. How and they said he doesn't have access to just do. I'm just. Tells them to see Deloitte has had the process can take up to a year. They say they've also received more than sixty thousand claims. There's also the pandemic of course. Can You understand why the process might be slower, or do you think that's not a good enough reason? that's done good enough reason because. From January to middle loads, align all midland January actually. It's a long time and then. Since that time. I've been cutting one word of any kind of correspondence from the. Nobody's given me a letter giving me a phone call Mrs why a cup colleague. So. What have they told you will happen next? told me. Everything is done thing. There's nothing you can do. No goodness, send me an altercation. You've already said how traumatic it was filling it up the first time. Do you. Through the process again. Don't think actually doing things so. This is a difficult question to ask Mr Voglio, but as much as you're willing to to reveal to us. Can you tell me a little bit about what you experienced during your four years at the Peter Pond Day school. On! It's like I, said it's in between of I was too too far. Was a lot of bullying. I went through with the teachers. Not just the teachers who they kinda favored something maybe talk boys. I did see that and then. Is Talk with guys withdraw two smaller kids like myself and Bowie. Some of our listeners might not know what level two to five means. So for you. What was it like in in the classrooms at that school? There was some good times. When they got to. Participate of either. They can sports and. Also how bad times these are! Times that didn't make Gordon School didn't make it in school or scared of the teachers and. I failed a grade because of that. Numb those lot of. Emotional abuse been called. Turnover that'd be like a useless immune. Make everybody else in. The community. Told stuff that and getting ahead banged against the wall, getting straps and. Get in the back of my hair pulled in my ear, twisted and. Shoved into the dust. Self there yet. When and Given then. Just the beginning. I'm so sorry you had to go through that Mr Bolio I know it's some. It's affected you into life now. Obviously and you and you struggle with PTSD. I'm having good. Even talk with you, know. Kinda. Do fewer. Commitment again. Sorry install it. Just comes to me when. Jacuzzi Bob. If someone from Deloitte WHO's working on these claims or someone in the government is listening to this interview. What would you like to say to them? What would you like them to do? For you into really Get a hold of each client ones that haven't been compensated yet and better off where things are. Just like myself. They should've told me a long time ago. My application been good doc in January, but get over reviewing it. Listen. There two hundred and ten days is up to me. Normally, altercation is not good. Out there six months of telling means that they've been. My case is under review under review review on. I really do hope you get an answer soon and that we stay in touch so that we can find out what happens. Thank you so much for your time. Thank you very much for you guys times. T care like your. Wilford? Voglio is a federal day school survivor. We reached him in Fort Resolution Northwest Territories. In a statement to CBC North the Federal Department of Crown. Indigenous Relations said. The mistreatment of indigenous children is a tragic and shameful part of Canada's history. The department directed survivors who have concerns about the settlement process to contact Deloitte and Deloitte has now responded to CBC. North's request for comment saying quote, we are meticulously reviewing claims in order to ensure survivors received the compensation. They are owed as quickly as possible. Adding that an incomplete claim form will require collection of additional information and caused delays in processing. I think it's fair to say that. No human being knows chimpanzees quite as well as Jane Goodall. It's a chimp laugh. They have a sense of humor They don't blush and they don't. Cry didn't have tears. Jane Goodall Imitating Chimp Laugh on CBC. A few decades ago, it was a few decades before that that a twenty six year old spiring researcher walked into a forest and Tanzania for the first time the research she would do there forever changed our understanding of chimps and challenged the conventions of scientific research, for example that naming your subjects is a no, no, but miss. Goodall used emotional insight in tandem with detached scientific observation to learn more than anyone had ever heard about fee David Greybeard and Frodo. This week marks the sixtieth anniversary of that game changing trip, so here's a little Jane Goodell's interview with the CBS's Peter. Sqi from Nineteen eighty-six. The chimpanzee is the closest creature to humans alive. Today we share ninety nine percent of our genetic material. And if by studying a creature that's very complex and very intelligent, but not quite as complex as the human, not depending on culture, the way that we do and moreover a creature without spoken language. If we can sort out. Something, regarding the biological basis of behavior. Then we can look humans and say well. Perhaps this factor is important for us to let's let's test it. To what degree has over? Over your own years of observation and study to what degree has has your sense of their intelligence or have have you since their intelligence is greater than you had I anticipated? That's a wordy way of saying. Do you think they're smarter now than you thought when you started well I, do and it's not really just because of the work I've done gunby low cost. The longer you study, these chimps, the more you realize. How intelligent they are, but of course there's so much work being done on captive chimps teaching them asl sign language of the deaf testing them putting them in conditions where they are forced to work. To give an answer to solve a problem. Encouraging them to use their brains I mean we humans most of us don't use more than a very tiny percentage of our brain, power and ordinary everyday life, not the chimps, so you see the the real brilliance of the chimp intellect more in captive situations than in the world, but but in a while too I mean thinking. He made use of his elder brother in achieving top dominance rank in the mail hierarchy only challenge the higher ranking male when his brother was president, because he knew that his brother would help him, and his brother did these these are good examples of using intelligence. Pioneering primatology Jane Goodall on CNBC, CB's morningside in nineteen eighty six this week mark sixty years since the primatology began her research on apes in Tanzania. Law. One of the giants in the fight against HIV AIDS that's how a vice chancellor at UC San Diego remembers her on twitter. The CEO of the California Life Science Association called her a humble giant and a leader for women science. They were talking about flossie Wong. Stall the Chinese American. Molecular virologist who spent decades researching HIV and AIDS miss install died earlier this month. She was seventy three. Dr George Pavlak. I met Flossie Wong stall in the nineteen eighties. He's a section chief at the national. Cancer Institute today and we reached him in Frederick Maryland. Dr Is. Tell us what flossie Wong Staal was like as a colleague and friend. He was a very accomplished scientists, a very strong woman in the months world, I met her during exciting times, and she was scolding her own. And they're pretty tough and moving conditions. Tell me about those exciting times. How did you meet? When did you mean? Or I met at the beginning of the eighties, which was also the beginning of the as. We're working in the same building at the National Cancer Institute investor as a young independent researchers at that time I wanted to get the DNA clone over the AIDS virus express by the brand new technology of genetic engineering, which would what developing at that time so that we produce a vaccine for AIDS in Flosi, the Gallup rope were cloning the virus in the same, bending with bathrooms Khan and others in the group. So That's how we started our instead of just meeting that corridors a we started our collaborations. How do you think miss? Install felt about being a prominent female scientists at that time as you mentioned a man's world. Oh see loved it, so that was care world. See, was they? Could Scientists see enjoyed at work and see enjoyed the being in the middle of I, compare the climate that this time in says that was pretty much what we signed this experience now within your vitals very exciting traveling times at the same time, but also very rapid progress. Lots of collaborations, lots of changes really a A special time MS, Wong. Stall was working with the scientists, Robert, Gallo, in some may remember that they were years of controversy involving Mister Gallo and French scientists, both sides, claiming to have discovered the link between HIV AIDS how did she feel about this time? And and did you think it overshadowed the work that they were all doing in a way? Yes, very is a big shadow over a lot of people and in this era quite unfortunately. Of course they were big egos and big interest and lots of controversies in there is enough blame to go around. But there was also a tremendous amount of good and useful science that was done, which also has to be put on the balance and a philosophy did had set or more, and actually I believe she was Voice of reason, plus you would never saw weakness of course, but few thanks to be fair I think over all had good relationships with a lot of other scientists so I think so over also was a voice of reason. What would you say? flossie Wong stalls greatest achievement west. Well. See was tremendously instrumental in. Cloning the virus That's I used that that who you know, essentially start my career nightside. Eight suites continues in addition, the other contributions like understanding. Sam over regulatory circuits of HIV that was extremely important to try to understand the disease, and also one thing that we still use those of us that we still try to develop AIDS vaccines. After thirty five forty years, see was among the first to study, the virus regions and the cost regions of ide-. I read that her dad named her flossy after a typhoon. It really does sound like she was force of nature. Yes S, he was stronger woman, she was elegant. and the woman did not want to so weakness. He was cool. I've never really seen her very rarely seen. lose her temper. And Was admire of Grace Kelly. And see loved the beautiful things and Beautiful tessies. She was a very very interesting woman. She. She made some comments in the years before her death about the importance of diversity. HOW PROUD! She was to to be an immigrant to the United States. What do you think she made a of the time? That you're in in the US right now in terms of representation. For. I'm not sure that Looking at where we are now that Let me put it this way. I hope that's who would not be totally disappointed that we were not moving. Really as fast as we should, and could things that I saw him doing the beginning of V8 Debbie. bad behaviors stig my fights. Political problems said I that I was hoping that that we would be wiser and we will not go through that again, but here we are. And we have to try more and better. I didn't know her, but I suspect she would have wanted that as well doctor. Thank you so much for your time. Thank you for helping us. Celebrate the life, or an achievement of a great sense. Thank you? Dr George Pataki says a scientist and section chief at the national. Cancer Institute! He was in Frederick Maryland Flossie Wong Stall Leader in HIV AIDS. Research died this month. She was three and you can find more on this story on our web page at CBC dot Ca Slash Ah. Eden Robinson's book son of a trickster defies classification. It's fantasy meets. Humor meets horror with a dash of young adult literature, thrown in for good measure or maybe bad measure, but in a good way. It's kind of complicated. Take the takes eight years to right, but it has kept the highs la in health soup author on the best of lists ever since it came out and this year it's caught. The eye of Canada reads panelists. GANEA DEA horn the Mohawk actor will be defending the novel in next week's scheduled. Canada reads debates which I have the honor of hosting and. Got To sit down with Eden Robinson for a little one on one about the book. To me at the heart of of a trickster is jared the extreme care that he has support all the other characters, and even though they're complicated and sometimes dangerous. Yes still cares so. How you first introduced to the trickster character. We get in the crib with the ball They told us trickster stories as kids like. Daily so mutual someone I I had to remember like the stories. That would be lake. After dinner. Everyone used together at the kitchen table. And we would. Be Having dessert in smoking. Drinking a lot of coffee and I have so many wonderful storytellers, my family. They would all try to one up each other. So when they started on the weakest stories, they would get faster in crazier in Funnier, and the goal is to make people laugh until they beat. Off. What is the one thing I should make sure everyone knows about your book. I would like people to enjoy the grey areas, the complexities and the interactions with the characters. I don't think having characters that are like all likable all the time interesting true. That's like I like playing bad guys. Sometimes because it's like you know you get to go into the mind and you get to see what motivates them because they are. Not just bad, and that's it. That! Yeah? He now let's tracking them. It's you know it's not it's. It's something that they feel very. Yeah, those are the characters. Son of a trickster author Eden Robinson speaking with the books Canada reads champion GonNa. Do Horn. The Battle of the books kicks off on Monday for all the details. You can visit CBC Books Dot CA. You've been listening to the as it happens podcast, our show can be heard Monday to Friday on CBC Radio One following the world at six. You can also listen to the show on the web at CBC. Dot Ca Slash Aih. Thanks for listening I'm you cook saw and I'm Ali Hassan. For more CBC podcasts. GOTO CBC DOT CA slash podcasts.