Lessons From Failing To Go Location Independent with Paul Lam
If you're somebody who's interested in living that location independent lifestyle where you can run a business from the road or earn money while you travel. What do you do do you try to start that before you leave and take off for a trip or do you just take your chances and go for it with what you got and try to figure it out on the fly while you're traveling. And that's really the spectrum. If you think about it on the one hand, you might have people that are super-conservative planning very far in advance before long-term revolt time trip, and if they want to do the location independent business thing, they wanna make sure they have a business that's running. That's at a certain level before they go. And on the other hand, you might have somebody who's just fed up with their job. They're ready to go. They've had enough. They have enough money for the plane ticket. Maybe they don't have a lot in savings. But they ham gonna jump on this plane, and I'm gonna make this work and on both sides of that spectrum. I'm sure you have a successful. I'm using air quotes successful stories and failures again, I'm using air quotes because what? Does that even mean when my guest today falls on the impulsive side, he somebody that just took off and went for it. And it really didn't work out the way he thought it would. But does he regret it? And how do you measure success? How do you define what can failure teach you? What about that travel experience just in and of itself, even if you couldn't get a business off the ground is it worth it to do that just from the travel experience perspective is a side hustle important. As you start something before you go. What's the price you have to pay for seeking more individual freedom? We're gonna talk about all these topics and so much more in this episode right now, let's do it. Buckle up strap in thanks for being here. And welcome to the zero to travel podcast, my friend. You're listening to zero to travel podcast where we explore exciting travel based work lifestyle and business opportunities helping you to achieve your wildest dreams. Now, you'll host world wonder and travel Junkin Jason mall. Hey there it's Jason with zero to travel dot com. Welcome to the show, my friend. Thank you kindly for hanging out with me letting me bring a little travel, right? Into your ears today. This is the show to help you travel the world on your terms to filter life with as much travels you desire. No matter what your situation or experience. You're joining many thousands tens of thousands of listeners across the world as part of the zero to travel caravan this global community, I feel love I feel the vibes. I feel you all out there. I'm right here with you now on thank you so much for being a part of it. The thing that unites is community. Of course, our love for travel or passion for travel, and I think our desire to do things in an individualistic way to maybe a little more unconventional understand. There are other people out there that don't wanna do the regular thing. And oftentimes travelers I think get lumped into that category. Because really who takes off to travel for months or years at a time or sometimes. Decades who does that? Well, we do this community people in this community. We're the ones that do that. And we love it. And if you want to connect with me or others in this community, don't forget and go does your to travel dot com. Sign up over there because they're all sorts of things happening off the podcast that you might be missing workshops and gatherings online and offline and things like that. So sign up over there is your to travel dot com. And I love to give shout outs here. Because listeners are always dropping me a line. I read all of these emails, and I love to share these stories, and I want to take and graduations to Janetta. I hope I'm pronouncing her name correctly. She says Jason I've subscribed your podcast for about two years and have learned so much from your show. She goes on to Sam eight days away from selling my house. I left my job back in April and have been making steps to travel with my kids. It's scary and daunting. But I know if I don't do it my spirit will diminish a little every day. She goes on to share some of her travels plans and just says her kids will be home in world schooled. And she's promised them that after the first. Year will assess and decide if we want to plant roots or keep travelling happy travels. Congratulations Janetta, and that's so exciting. And I love what she said at the end there. What a great idea if you have kids or spouse or friends, and you're traveling with them to set a date for assessing. Hey, are we happy are we enjoying this is this an experience we want to continue on with it kind of makes it that much easier to go without the pressure of. Hey, what if we don't like this what if this isn't fun? So the give them yourselves year to travel, and then they're going to assassin get together as a family and discuss that. But of course, that can apply to anybody family friends against spouses, travelling together and partners and so on so great idea. I think it's a great thing to do to for any new endeavor that you're not sure about even if you're taking a new job and you're thinking, oh, my going to like this job. Well, it doesn't do it forever. Maybe just say, hey, let's do it for year. And I'm going to look at this and see for something I still want to do. And that's a great approach to long-term travel. As well. Because maybe you won't like being on the road for months on end as much as you thought you would. And that's okay. It's good to check in on that. So great ideas and want to say, congratulations to her and her family and best of luck. And you can drop me line anytime. I again, always read these emails, and I'm so inspired by people in the community. You don't have to wait until you've quit your job or until you've taken your trip to write because I love to hear where everybody's at right now. How the podcast might be helping what I can do better to help you even more to serve you even more. What types of guests and topics? You want me to cover just reach out any time. This is a community powered show. This is your show. I am lucky enough to be the host of it and to have this platform, but I make the show for you. That's what keeps me going and to get the feedback from you to keep the two way conversation open. So I can understand what it is. You wanna hear really gives me some great ideas, and I can deliver the goods, so I can keep bring your show that you enjoy and continuing to grow this. Community and to improve and to help you travel the world. Now, we're gonna get into today's conversation as you heard at the top some big questions to cover before we do. I just want to say thanks to Tortuga backpacks for supporting today show zero travel dot com slash Tortuga will show you all of my recommendations for the best travel backpacks out there, and they've got some other gear that I recommend as well. So why waste time? If you're looking for a backpack that you want to use to travel the world for three weeks, three months or three years. Check out the Tortuga packs. They're my favorite you can get ten percent off with the promo code travel. So when you enter the promo code travel, when you check out you get ten percents off any of the Tortuga backpacks that you decide to purchase, and I use most of the time, I use the tortilla out breaker and the day pack. That's my one two combo that works for me. So well, whether I'm traveling here in Norway where I live or somewhere else in Europe or back to the states because the bag. Is maximized for carry on? You don't have to check the bag. You can still fit everything you need to think about the money. You can save by not checking bags and the materials made out of sail cloth. So you can take it outfits if it's raining, your stuff doesn't get wet. But it's still not very heavy, and it's compact comfortable, it looks cool. I can't say enough great things about it zero to travel dot com slash Tortuga, promo code travel. When you check out get you ten percent often, thanks to them because they're giving that discount 202 travel listeners. And when they were designing some new packs last year there designer got on the phone with me, a bunch of other travelers and really talk to us to try to understand. How can we make the perfect backpack? What kind of features does it need? How can we make the only backpack that you'll need for your specific style of travel? And I gotta say they've pulled it off and I loved it. They just listen and are open to this feedback and they've got an amazing collection. So check out those links and if. You do go through those links or use that promo code. You'll also be supporting this show. And I thank you very kindly for that. Okay. Let's get into today's interview. And I'm really excited about this. Because a lot of times we get the talk with people that maybe have taken off and they've got this business running and everything's working for them. And for my guest today that wasn't the case he took off to Thailand tried to go location independent and start a business while he was travelling didn't work out, and he had to come home. What did he learn from that does he regret it was that a bad call for anybody that has tried something and it didn't work out? Exactly the way they thought don't worry because you're in good company. That's happened to all of us in some way, shape or form. And there are a lot of lessons that come out of that. And particularly I love the lessons that Paul share. And why this was still a good thing for him so much in this conversation. I hope you enjoy it as much as I did. And stick around because on the other side of this chat. I'm going to share with you one of my favorite many travel hack, something I do every time I go through airport security, and it makes me feel good because you know, you go through airport security, sometimes in whatever ungodly hour, it is it might be six clock in the morning. You're so tired so easy to lose track. Your stuff. I'll tell you. What I do that makes me feel good. That makes me feel like I'm never going to lose anything forget anything. I'll share that with you on the other side. So listen to the interview and Halsey, see here's. Today. I have the distinct pleasure of speaking with one of the most positive people, I know, my friend and host of the path hunters podcast show, which encourages people to unleash their inner beast. So they can live a life of purpose and passion, you can check it out at path hunters dot com and check him out over there. This gorgeous man in front of me, Mr Paul lamb, welcome to this year to travel podcast, my friend, man. Thank you for having me. It's such an honor to be on your show. It's funny because I was an active listener in a like stoked to be here now. And like, you know, we've become really good friends. And it's just it's just amazing. How things just go like, you know, one eighty in no time. It's crazy. Well, do I mean, I got to come on the path owners podcasts. I'm not sure where in the arc of your podcast. I appeared I it was so sweet because you had me on as a guest, and we had a great chat, and then I commented on your microphone cover had like a red cover, which I still have actually I don't have it on right now. Because I was like on a broken Mike, and I switched Mike, and I forgot this wish to cover. But anyway that and then you sent me like journal in the mail like after just an off handed comment, and it was so sweet. And that really stuck out. And then you ended up joining our community location Indy. And then we've just been in touch and. Yeah, so I just so appreciate that. You took the time to reach out. And you know, we got to know each other through that. So that's thanks, man. Man. Thank you like I said, like I'm super stoked to provide value to the comedian so happy to join the community when the doors opened and it was just so. So much learning involved. And it was so cool. And I learned so much from you and Travis and it was so exciting. And honestly nothing but love for you to like, especially you Jason. Because like, I think you've heard the story where like bawled my eyes. I listen to you like one of your episodes, and literally gave me hope that was it. Oh. We can talk about that. If you want, but we have a lot of stuff to talk about. And specifically we're going to get into your location independent journey. And would you define yourself as location independent right now? No, not yet. I was checking out your site. And I saw you had a quote from the alchemist one of my favorite books, and the quote is there is only one thing that makes a dream impossible to achieve the fear of failure. What has been your relationship with fear and failure the relationship between that it really had like dial back to when it was working corporate nine to five job in two thousand sixteen. I heard stories I was I was selling insurance home and auto insurance, and they just really really worked with a lot of elderly folks who are just off their pensions and hearing their stories because I enjoyed having conversations with them. And one thing kept coming up for me. It was Paul if I was your age, I would do this and this, and I would have followed my dreams, and it just they say would they give specific. Nick examples about that life like what were some of the intense things that they shared. Yes. Some of the things like a they would say that. I wish I had time to travel or I wish I committed more time to my family. I wish I didn't work so hard. I wish I followed and at least build a business something that really impacted their lives other people's lives as well too. And these things kept coming up Dealey basis. Are you selling life insurance was that or not at all? It's it was funny because these people were calling me up and say, Paul Anita. Save fifty dollars on mine. Sure is one of fifty dollars a year. Can you help me save that fifty dollars or something? And and one distinct story that I was speaking to a gentleman he was who saying he retired recently who's used to five thousand dollars a month income working as his job. And then when he retired it went down to twelve hundred dollars a month. And now he's trying to pinch and like just trying to save all his money and everything and work. The budget. I said to him like can't believe that. This is what the results were for putting in forty years of work for company to kind of feeling like your college again trying to live up instant noodles. All right. So you're talking to all these elderly people through your job. And you're hearing these crazy stories how did you come to find this whole alternative way of living? If you wanna call it that whether it's location penance or like fulltime travel, or, you know, something that most people aren't doing, you know, it was a it was a mixture of many things really I knew that deep down before this corporate nine to five job. I went through a series, you know, Murphy's law like anything that could have popping like really bad. Like actually does go bad for you. So so going through a series of events of being laid off from corporate nine to five job when I finished college. I did the holes life thing Jason. It's like I went through school got good grades and and found of corporate nine to five job. The plan was going to save money and get married and buy house like the typical the dream that we're we're sold upon a time and. As I was doing this. I was laid off, and I just thought to myself like after we get laid off the science behind it is it's almost the same as grief you question. A lot about yourself. You question let your validity. And I did all that. I just couldn't believe like I can't believe I was ready in this is supposed to be a safe stable job, and I got laid off and and that along with us in a bad car accident ex girlfriend at the time. You know, it was pregnant, and then she got it, you know, the baby aborted, and then I was held at gunpoint as well too. There's so many things that happen. And I just got to the point way. Hold on. Hold on. We gotta talk about this a little more. Yes. Let's let's talk about the gun point incident. Yeah. So so happy in between the span of like years, actually, so two thousand twelve to thirteen fourteen fifteen every year. There was always something that had just hit me all the time. And so the gun point happened to us in fourteen I was just sleeping at the time. And it was benign AM in the morning. It was at home was laid off and I had a car accident. And a lot of things we're going at the time, and it wasn't in the mood to do anything whatsoever. And we hear the doorbell ring. My dad just thought it was just a regular day opens the door and fourth thugs came in and punched my dad and Russian with guns with machetes, and I didn't know what was going on Ronco. Yeah. It was crazy because I didn't know what was a fully awake. I heard a. Emotion and went downstairs, and there was four thugs pushing my mom around and kicking my dad, and so your natural reaction instinct like instinctively really just there's three scenarios you actually freeze up and you either run away or you jump in without knowing. So I jumped in without knowing trying to go in between, my mom and the thugs, but by the time, I clicked in like, I didn't realize this is happening. So I went in and by the time it came to there was a gun being pointed to my head and vividly. Remember seeing the barrel the gun, and it just couldn't believe it was just like a movie legitimate like like a movie wondering if this is a real gun. If this is there were so many things that goes through your mind at the time because it's so uncommon right? And for from nine AM to twelve o'clock. We were just being held at gunpoint while these four thugs we're kind of rushing around the house looking for valuables money, or whatever you don't know what they're gonna do. I mean, no that's could just be the beginning of it. It was crazy because as you're being held at gunpoint. This is really extreme example. I do not wanna have anybody go through this. But there's a reason why I'm positive all the time because of this. So it's actually a blessing in disguise. But during that time, there's a few things I've run through your head. You question life. You question your your accomplishments? You question if you're gonna live are you going to be this kid on the news that's going to be on the news for a week? And then the world's continues on and all these mixtures of a motions and wondering, but should act or go into through different scenarios and everything and I remember vividly explaining to myself that I make it through this. I'm going to be the best I can be in. No one will ever ever touch me. Like this again, no one will ever have full control over my life in this kind of place ever. Because the extreme example this thug literally had my life in his hands. He can just pull the trigger and then blow my brains out and call it a day. Right. It's like I said to blessing in disguise because afterwards the best case scenario happened. Mom, dad walked away with few bruises. I was okay. Few valuables were taken there were a lot of things that really really, and we can dive more into this on the lessons that I've learned from this one event, and so many other events that have throughout my life. But it was such an outlier event that that there's a quote that I always loved to reference is that you know, when you have an experience a stretches the mind, did you can never go back to the old two mentions and literally effect like that. Yeah. How long after that though? Did you embrace this new mindset like your mind was stretched, but it must have been a little warped and messed up to for a little while how did you deal with that? I was having night sweats. I was just reliving the experience over and over at the time. I'm very paranoid was always looking over my shoulders and everything like that. But one thing that really kept me grounded and triggered was that the promise I made to myself if if I was gonna make it through this. I'm gonna literally impact the world in such a positive way that when I die. It's going to be a legacy that's being left behind is such a massive scale, and this single notion that just kept coming up over and over my mind, and so I- consciously chose to release sought out help on getting past this. So mindful meditation kept coming over, and because I found out of your mind can't different shape the past president future. Ray it it just doesn't really know. And everything it so like, it was just me China. Bring my my mind back to the present. And I did that. And when through the six months worth of lake intense, meditation and finally just on your own or like, yeah. Really? Okay. So I was just reading books on it podcast and everything on it. Anything any any information? I could on this kind of subject because the therapist real I went to one session and just really didn't like it. But one thing that took away from that was that she mentioned mindful meditation, and I said, okay, why not because I got nothing to lose at this point anything anything come on. Let's just get past this and become the the man that you envisioned at that time, and it was quite interesting going through all that because I've found myself thanking those guys in a weird way because mean and actually meaning it like, yeah. It was so weird because like, you know, in Maimi detach, myself, a material possessions, understanding that all these material things again money cars, house, whatever they can all be brought back. If just losing a fire, whatever it is gonna was buy it again. That's not an issue but walking away with my parents lives in my own life. It was just a blessing because you can never get that back. Again, it made me appreciate that. And it may be cruciate. The what they did to me because it made me very mindful of other people, and like I said, it feels like you've just woken up from the matrix the blue pill or the red pill kind of deal. Right. It was it was so interesting and reflecting a lot on it over and over again. I it was just beautiful. Like, I said, I know weird way thank them. Because like if this didn't happen. My whole tire course of life, and like the way I take life. Now. It would have been totally different. Yeah. Do you feel like through the meditation where you do you feel like you were communicating with like a higher power or like just tapping in yourself, or what was that experience like for you? I kept holding onto that one idea of being the best that I can be because because knowing afterwards that I didn't want to die with regret because I knew. That at that point. You can literally die any day. Like, you can you don't know when you're going to die. Actually, you know. I I'm glad I wouldn't want to know, you know, retu- we'll be like weird to have like a. You know, a day on the calendar that wouldn't be fun. I know so you don't know knowing this knowing this fundamentally it allows you to inspire fear. You still do what you do. It's quite really beautiful at a sense. I just kept holding onto that feeling of of just knowing that that I really wanted to take life into old different way. Because you don't know when you're going to die, and I'm going to regret in fear and all these things kept coming up over and over and over again. But in spite of that, I it it's something that Tony Robbins says all the time is that when you come close to death. You're you your life power ties is like differently suddenly small things don't really matter anymore. And what really matters is like matters racially family, health wealth relationships and love and all these things that really comes into play. Now in such a different way from me from where it was way back before that experience, it was instantly. You just realize but only if you consciously choose to tether yourself. To a commitment. Mine was always trying to be the best version of myself. How do you live up to that? Or how do you know, you're actually living up to it? You know, being very kind to yourself, right? Everybody goes through this all the time. Everybody goes through a internal dialogue within themselves. They're very mean. I be very mean to myself. You know, you're not capable wh who think you are like kind of deal all these kind of negative tones that comes with a lot of to that. I certainly can't. Yeah. Exactly. Hey, we all go through this. But the things like you will never say this to anyone's face. That's right. That's the funny part. Right. You're like crap sometimes, but you would never do that somebody else. That's exactly. So so so understanding that being kind to yourself is the first step towards that direction. I'm very gentle with myself. You know, if you set a goal to go to run ten kilometers and you run eight, and you get most people will get angry because they didn't hit the tent, but if you look backwards, you ran eight that's eight more than you. Happy four. Right. Looking from that kind of place in concept really all the time and reflecting on that is really important because we're only human Ray, we're fighting against our instincts are Nate nature like this was like can really dive deeper like view on that in terms of like science and all that without because like this is how how beer will never go away terminal dialogue will never go away. It's just it's just overflowing with the more kindness. Within yourself is what's really important. And that's what I've done personally myself. I look myself in the mirror silly. As it sounds Jason every morning. I look in the mirror. I'm like God damn like, you are an amazing superstar look at you. Really? Would you look like a unique Asia with long hair, and like you're about to own your space, and nobody knows what's like, I'm very this me. My my own internal dialog Ray. And this is I'm just telling you this. I look at you like, you have the mindset of like a warrior and getting to the gym. It looks you. You're ready to every morning and as weird as that styles. Like really really gets you eventually you'll come to a place where you belong. Leave it, and you should you should believe it. So so this is why people a lot of people ask me like, I'm my bad. Don't get me wrong. But but most of the time I consciously choose better, no matter what. Because like I've been through worse. And I consciously choose better than anyone can do this. I don't say I don't think anybody has to go through an experience that I had this just consciously being aware about it is what's important. I love the thought of you like pumping yourself off like that. By the way, the heroics, by the way, the hair looks great. As far by you, actually. I cut mine off. But yeah, maybe I should grow back. I wanted to ask you about how travel plays into this. What was your relationship to travel like how did you feel about travel? And when did it become a thing you wanted to do is? So so it's quite funny because it ties into to that gun point of bent that, you know, going through that besides the meditation part of it, you know, I really suffered a law into Prussian. There's me completely being vulnerable here. I was just going through a dark place and actually thought about like thinking about suicide as well to for whatever the universe whatever he had to come into play here. My mom's friends son had committed suicide few months afterwards. And I just really hit me hard because it was just like holy crap Congo through this right now, and it's dark, and and my mom for whatever reason said that know, why would you do that? He was such a good looking boy, you know, he's had so much. And she was so sad. She was legitimately like crying. Because like she was saying that. There's so many things he could have done to handle this travel the world or whatever it is. And how it was like a weird weird indication that travel would have been something. Right. So so I hope I her depressing that she that's that's something about that really shot into you kind of like you were like hall like awake. Like a little bit of a jolt kind of like. Whoa. It was it really was an and she didn't know what the time because like, you know, everybody it's dark and people kind of mask over it. I'm so thankful because of her because I took a trip to Vietnam where we're my family's from. And we went to like oral village where I really humbled myself to see where money cancer that you mean or. Yeah. Okay. So how that? I would say a month afterwards. Okay. But that was that you can actually go back to that point. When your mom said that and as that being thing like, hey, I could I could travel the world to type of thing, which is a fluke thing. It was just interesting because because it really never occurred to me, I've always traveled a lot, but never really solo traveled. It was kind of funny because all these things were like soul lined. It was interesting because once I did that. And when when I went there, you got to see poverty because Vietnam is quite, you know, a third world country to stern degree, and it's getting a lot better. And you've been there as well too. But if you ever like see some like southern villages and everything and where my family was from it was so humbling to realize holy crap. You can't help but just kind of look a life different ways. And this is how it kind of spurred up the hunger for more travel by the time. I got back. I was looking at about everything on travel, and I was just like an annex stumbled upon like zero to travel podcast, and it's just so hungry to go travel. More because that single experience really changed me. And I was a really wanted to learn more and grow Percy myself because I'm still going pass, this traumatic experience, and it was just a number session at this point. This is how travel in the end tied into everything. And I recommended for everyone everyone like put on a credit card and just take a trip and go somewhere on your own experiences. Someone's like life in the daily basis, you kind of visiting in a sense or you're visiting someone's way of living your guest in the country, and yet be very wear and observant and see and I'm all about that. Now, and my gosh life changes when you kind of come from this point was the choice to go. Visit your home village was that something that was top your bucket list before was that tied in with like the incident that you had with the gun and using that as almost like a a therapeutic device. Also, my parents go. Back to Vietnam every year. So they go back a year to go and do a lot of humanitarian work. I was born and raised in Canada. So I really didn't have aspirations to go back or anything like that. Because I love in the end through through. I consider myself a Canadian, I love chicken wings, burgers and beer. And it's quite interesting that my dad just you know, again flukes just random he's just like, what did you come back Vietnam? You know, I guess he says like I was going through a lot of trouble as well too. I was never really home. It kind of just went off and meditated and just kind of by myself, and he just suggested that. And I said why not? Why not let's get into the whole location independent journey. Now. Why did that become a choice for you? Yeah. It was like the hero's journey in a movie where where the the the hero would suddenly get a jolt of like a superpower or something like that great. And then and then their goal weirded out and freaked out and they kind of wanted to go back to their normal life. That's it. And they can't though, right? So like, that's what happened to me after the Vietnam thing and all that and all these experiences. I did the only thing I knew struggle back to corporate nine to five job like like, and I found a corporate nine to five job selling insurance again because that was my major it was like, you're a wolf in a place full of sheep. Let's what it felt like it was just knew that. It wasn't for you deep down you knew. And I just at that. I was in limbo. I didn't know that you know, being location. Independent was a thing digital nomads. I didn't know any of that. Right. And I just found a bunch of podcasts diamond to everything like madman after work on the way to work. Weekends. And whatever I could it was just like a madman. And then listen to your episodes, and does your child podcast, really inspired. I was like I just couldn't believe it really really gave me hope along with the chatting with all those elderly folks, and and continue on always elderly FOX, but but the wisdom, they do, and I recommend the always you always should chat with them because a lot of wealth of knowledge. I just knew that it couldn't do it anymore after that. There was a massive break-up the really left me really looking at my life in a different way, even more. I remember the break-up happened on a Friday, and I had to go into work on a Saturday and be in the morning when you're selling insurance just to be an Chipper mood lake. No matter what you force it kind of. You know, you're insane. So much insurance if you're lying and take a look at this insurance thing, you know. Exactly. So it made me realize think back about the gun pointing Senate like these guys literally have my life in their hands. But don't show up. I don't get paid. You were acquainting your employers. You're putting them almost on the same level as the gang. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. Weird. Right. It was it was it was quite interesting. But I mean, also eating, you know, you knew what your motivation comes from. So you were putting it on that to use it as motivation. Probably. Yeah. I remember vividly going after work after a long day of work and a son the car, and I was listening to one of your absolutely someday. Not when why not now, and it was just it was just completed rushed into me. I'm like I need to figure this out. I need to do this. And I just sold everything. I just hold everything because I was listening to enough episodes from different places that people recommend Thailand Chiang Mai. And I just went ahead and just sold. Everything. It just I didn't care. I didn't care. It didn't wanna do it anymore. He's want everything and you quit your job. And you went to Chiang Mai Thailand. Right. And what was your plan? There wasn't much of quite honestly by that time location. Indie opened up a paradise pack was to that sixteen opened up. I had like three thousand dollars cash I bought the ticket already for like seven hundred dollars round trip. I don't know why I it was cheaper for round trips. I don't know how long did you give yourself like how much time where you're going to be three three months? Okay. So three months. Yeah. So three months and Thailand. And you're you're fortunate because it sounds like you have a good support system with your parents like if you come back, they'll let you stay with them. So that's sink. God for my parents had said. Well, I'm telling you, I am so thankful to them. It's not even funny. So I saved about three thousand dollars cash and took off, and when it took off I had the pathogens podcast started up had the paradise packed, and I had a jumped into location Indian and just just really wanted to learn all this, and I was super committed super commits get this done up running three months that was the ambitious thing of and it didn't work out. I'll be honest. It didn't work out. It was it was just in one way. Didn't it work out? I went out there. And I went, and I wanted to meet other digital nomads, and I wanted to meet our location, independent people, and I just wanted to learn so much, and I by the time the end of it near the end of it. I was spending a lot of time networking events and everything like that. And not really actually sitting down and doing the work. I didn't do any of the word. It was just so money, and it just really transparently admitting this, but there has to be a balanced, but you actually sitting down and doing the work for yourself. You have to literally create something. And it's it's I was not which is the podcast though. I mean, you have podcast going. So so so the podcast was like, yeah. The podcast is like the commitment there. That was I love the podcast and looking in hindsight now how I would've done it differently with start aside. Also be patient because I'm a very impulsive person. And I just I just went like this and kind of throw everything and just go. But yeah, I put my recommendations for other people just look at the side hustle created experiment with it. If it doesn't work at least you have something to carry yourself. I would have done it that way. But do you regret doing it the way you did it? No. So. Talk about that. Like, what did you take away from that experience the the growth from that? So the amount of people that I've met out there. It was just when you're surrounded by really really felt easy plugging into Chiang Mai Thailand, digital nomads and just feeling the love for freedom. Everybody came in contact with was this was the key component. It was. It was always it was always. Oh, yeah. Like where we're headed to a where are you from Paul and from Canada? I don't know where I'm heading to next. I have no idea like me neither. Yeah. And we're just going go to some events and everything and just have a great time. And it was just great because some of my best friends now are, you know, from the UK Portugal, and it was just so awesome to feel that in Zoba, building, your tribe and your people, and I'm so grateful to have the people still today to be in my world Ray, virtually not visit. You know, I wanted to talk about your Chang my time because you know, you said you said you spent three months, and you came back and it didn't work out. But does that mean you failed? I'm using air quotes. Because what do you think? I know. I have my opinions. But no, I didn't I you know, I say is a failure. But realistically, I'm very gentle myself. I, you know, I don't consider it a failure. Because it really whether I came back or not I had the mindset in the blueprints of and the tenacity to go after it. Because like I said the drive is still here more than ever is more prominent and the more I get to talk about it. It's even more. It's popping me up like literally stoked and excited because you know, it really isn't filled you'll fail if you stopped, and you give up a really gave me a clear indication of what direction I want to go towards now, even more. It's just really really something that that I'm very thankful. To the fact that kind of made me realize where I wanna draw the line for myself myself, right really wanted to kind of look at what I really wanted to do in this world, and I want to work with children and went to work with, you know, free education, teaching kids values, and so it's going to be the upcoming future is going to be all these things tied together. It's really easy you when you're going down a path and taking a path path hunters podcast and taking a journey. That's that's going to be difficult. It's a journey. Right. So is it is it sounds like it hasn't discouraged. You. You know, I wouldn't allow to you like I said like I felt discouraged. And that's why like maybe that's why I call it that. But as it was it was not a failure. Because like a really gave me a sense of where I wanted to draw the line in the sand for myself and understand that what is the next plan of attack? Right. That is that is the key component that keep you going for those people who are who are or will or or innocent, we're position or anything like that. No. That that if you come back, and if you from travel or anything like that, and you you get even more hungrier, you don't you refuse to go back to the old ways of life than that to me is excess because understanding that you you took lead you keep going, basic, exactly exactly. And it's funny because like the option of the corporate job again, and you know, in quitting and everything. It's always gonna be there. Right. This is something else. I tell myself. It's a the option is always going to be. There is never going to go away. And. Choosing consciously to go and fight towards your life. Your freedom comes with a price a sacrifice and a lot of tenacity a lot of willpower. We'll push you to the end. And it's something that I personally am willing to give. So it's asking yourself that kind of question is are you willing to keep going and keep travelling and keep going at it? Because I definitely it's not the end all for me. Like, I'm going to be my my goal is like one hundred ninety three countries, you know, by the time on thirty five. There's so much more. I can give and knowing that the option of quitting is always going to be there. Just makes me like now, I'm never gonna use that. I wanna I wanna hug going to do whatever I can whatever it takes just to do this talk to me about the podcasts because how did that change your life? Like, why did you decide to start a podcast? I dunno. Tell us why we should try out tell everybody about it. You know? You know, it was fired by you. And like many other like podcasters I look up to. I thought why not why not start a podcast starting it out? The Panthers podcast. I knew view a lot of people who just I feel like personally the struggle. The journey is super undersold. It's easy for an entrepreneur to say, oh, we spent six months to create Instagram, and that we sold it to Facebook for a billion dollar like it's so easy to say that right? But you know, those salads. Yeah. Like like, those six months must have been the most grueling late push it to the like limits, cried probably lived off like americanos left in the floor, not shower because we're all human beings. It's like, yeah. I mean, that's the kind of thing that happens, right? Exactly, it's it's so true. So so the podcast specifically, I love to capture the these kind of stories journeys about the struggle because it's so important because I want to show to everybody that given the right ingredients and elements involved, you can make it no matter what nothing you live in the place of possibility and just captured these conversations with many different people in different industries. I admire goals to bring it to people to to to hear it to listen to be like, okay. They are just like me. Right. Because like these are the exact same questions that I went through. And this is basically the whole theme my podcast. I always say unleash the beast from within because it's really unleashing because you have it or everybody has this potential to go, well and build a life, whatever it looks like for themselves and do it beautifully. Right. But there was a lot of struggles stress sacrifice in limits in everything to the test is going to keep asking you. Are you? Sure you want. This are you. Sure. You know, if I'm feeling down or if I feel like I'm getting off track or something I get to talk somebody who's they got their own story. And then they have some unique wisdom the share. And it just it's just always such a great kick in the ass, basically. So it's horse. You can check it out at path hunters dot com. Dude, you're a millennial. Do you think? Millennials get a bad rap. Yeah. We do what is going on. With the millennials talk talk to me. Oh, man. Oh, it's so funny. I thought it was a funny question or topic. Just because it's like, I never say that. And I think it's hilarious to just like broad stroke entire generation since I'm not a millennial. And you are I thought it would be funny to hear your comments on this. You know, whatever we've been labelled as give or take. It's almost true to certain sense because we were dealt a stern hands. You know, people who, you know, the generation before before yours as well to rate lived a stern way and raise their kids in the way, the only way that they knew and they were moving into a world where the modern world has accelerated and scaled exponentially to the point where they don't even know what to handle it. You get a lot of folks that like, oh, I'm not tug. So of your. You get a lot of that. Right. And so you're having two different powers Ray one that that it grew up with technology, and we'll continue to adopt with one that is super frayed of technology, and like the way of living, and they know they raise their kids the best way they could. But the ones that the millennials realize that you know, the old ways is not working. And then during their best to kind of navigate through this pioneering their way towards something else is beautiful and tremendous because. Yeah. Like millennials will get labeled a lot of like, you know, we're we're we're entitled we get yada, yada. Yo, and we don't have too many jobs. That's last very long because we follow our feelings and everything like that. Like my like, I'm the has since I quit my job. Well, that's kinda why brought it off. It's funny. Because for that stereotype, you could be the poster boy Floyd in some way, like in that way, certain people. I guess we'll criticize money for that. That's the thing. I actually admire millennials for that. I think hey, this is really cool. Here's a generation who's getting it. Good. Good on ya. Millennials like for not settling for like something that isn't aligned with your values. You know? And you some people might call that entitlements. Others might call that, hey, maybe they're just living true to themselves. You know, I won't make fun of the millennials though. Oh, yes. You listening it for like if you're one of those that takes a ridiculous amount of self as everywhere, you go and post them somewhere. Just I can't get into that. I'm trying to think if I took a lot of self. No, it's nice. Kids, you millennials? I kid you. I mean, that's part of what you said you grew up with technology like I grew up. There was a substantial part of my life where we didn't have internet basically until I went to college. So see like crazy because the next generation after me I've seen this already have cousins that are fairly young like about twelve and ten and their faces or ipads and their dad was trying to get them out to go play outside. The can't like they don't they don't want to like, I don't know why it's quite it's it's an interesting dynamic the whole dynamic is changing. And like I said like it's all understanding to adopt an Chun change. I think my lot like me. I was born in nineteen ninety just let everybody know I still remember days. I used to ran outside and got muddy and dirty, and my mom used to just a, you know, yell at me because like your, you know, it's crazy because my generation is probably the last generation that actually played outside. I don't know. That's depressing. I know right on that. No, that's for sure. I ending this podcast that because now I am I am really died that was depressing to hear. That would not happen while I'm raising a daughter now, and I can tell you we don't own a TV, and or we don't have ipads or anything. So there she will be playing outside while she plays outside every day. Anyway. So yeah. Yeah. Before I let you go. Since you spend some time in Chiang mine. This is such a hot spot for the digital nomad scene. And all that good stuff. You have any tips on them like traveling they're setting up shop, they're connecting with people. They're getting a place to stay just because it is a popular place to go Chiang Mai Thailand, we're talking about. Yeah. Just prepping some money before head of time. So like, you know, three thousand dollars told told you before it wasn't enough per se. So I had to dig into the credit card side of it. Because like when you're renting a place, it's first and last month's rent. I was not thinking about that. And the funny situations like have cash out because I took a lot of I did a lot of research and most digital nomads will say that you're gonna it's better to have your money. Take it take your money out there anyways, when you get to Chiang Mai because the Kurds he's better I would recommend getting your own cashing Canadian dollars USD and bring it over there. Because like, I only took two hundred Canadian dollars and my credit card. I don't know why didn't call. The credit card company or like my Bank because I couldn't withdraw money, and they locked my count because it was all the way in Thailand and for about three or four days, I was trying to budget two hundred dollars and try and make it last. And I was just arrived. I didn't I stayed at hotel. It is the hostels or anything like that. So spent one hundred dollars on two days, the hotels and talk about uncomfortable situations, so bring cash okay have an idea of where you're gonna stay. And then and then see if you know anybody or can contact anybody that's already out there that can just you hang out with or anything like that chuckle hostels as well too. So chick try to just try to at least have an idea and plan beforehand because I didn't I landed out Bangkok, and I was just didn't. I was like, okay. What do we do? Our? I think this is where you get a flight to Chiang Mai. Okay. Let's cool. And when I arrived on like, I didn't even bothered to call my credit card company. And so so it was very comfortable. It was great learning experience. And so. Recommend just do some planning beforehand. Go there. There's this place called Neiman road specifically in Chiang Mai try to live outside of that road because there's a lot cheaper. So I was I was lucky it was paying two hundred and fifty dollars a month in for my condo, Canadian dollars does all Canadian dollars. And so it'd be cheaper in USD, and then just going out and going to co working spaces. So I recommend getting co working spaces over there. This one popular when I just can't remember the name of it. But it was just a lot of digital Mets go there. It's like fifty to eighty dollars a month, but get it. Because that allows you to talk with the locals and the digital message comes through, and it gives you a spot to work and really focus. I never got that I went to different coffee shops. And I was trying to run a podcast at the same time. So literally I was trying to wake up at three stay awake at three AM in the morning because everybody operates on eastern standard time. Funny, quiet place to stay in having a. Paulie internet. It was the hardest thing in the world. Because. So along with that trying to lug my my laptop and my mic and everything and trying to set up everything up, and there were times where I sat of the mall and running Starbucks internet and trying to record a podcast at the same time. So it was quite interesting. It was fun. So I have these kind of places set in mind, and then there's always events going. Join the Facebook groups is another recommendation as well. And everybody's like everybody's nice. Everybody's nice. Everybody will talk to you everybody. If you just share your experience and have stories and then just come along. As literally I didn't have a problem. Like, I said plugging in meeting people you'll meet one hundred percent cool. Thanks for sharing man. And thanks for coming on the show and for sharing your story. I mean, we're just I feel like we were just getting into it here. You know, when we obviously learned a lot, and you were so honest with with everything, and I appreciate you sharing all the personal stuff that he did today. And if you check out path hunters dot com. You can see Paul check out his podcast over there, which is awesome checkout. His awesome hairdo his new long hairdo, and he's been hitting it hard at the gym and always showing up with a smile on his face. And. Yeah, dude, I'm really glad that we got to know each other and continue to keep supporting you and your journey. I'll tell you what my friend. You will never give up, and I will certainly never give up on you. We will keep supporting you on this journey until you're fully location independent that I can guarantee you a love it. You know, it's an honor to be on. And just honestly, I can't believe like I said, I'm so thankful that we're friends and everything, and I guess I'm excited to continue this friendship from here on out again. Absolutely, man. Well, we'll chat soon, my friend, take care. Cheers. Paul. Thank you, my friend for stopping vying sharing your story. Hope you enjoyed listening in our conversation. He's an awesome guy. And I'm sure you were getting his vibes through your ear buds or through speakers. Wherever you're listening to this Paul. He's just a positive awesome guys. Got that infectious attitude that you get around him. He can't help but just feel good and pick up on his his endlessly positive vibe. So thanks again to him. And don't forget to check out his podcast where you can hear him jam with a whole bunch of people on a variety of topics. It's the path hunters podcast as we mentioned in the show. So check that out, and I'm gonna sure this little hack. I use every time I go through airport security, which always gives me warm and fuzzy when I'm coming out the other side, I I just wanna quickly thank Tortuga backpacks for supporting today's show ten percent off any purchases with the promo code travel. If you go to zero to travel dot com slash Tortuga. You'll see the packs that I recommend. And again, use that promo code travel just the word travel when you check out you get ten percent off anything you order there. So if you're looking for a pack for president or for a friend or for yourself, you can do a bunch of research and waste a bunch of time or you can just go to that link and check out what I recommend, and I recommended because this is what I use all the time when I'm traveling, and I would say the one time I don't use Tortuga bags or backpacks is if I'm going hiking into the wilderness ninety to carry a tent and all that type of stuff than I use a hiking backpack. But other than that if I'm not taking that kind of trip if I'm just going travelling, and I need a backpack, and I'm not don't wanna check a bag, and I want to travel minimally, but also have everything I need whether I'm going for three weeks, three months three years or three days. I take more to out breaker, and my two good day pack, and they have some other packs as well that you're gonna want to check out if you're somebody that just lives in the city, and maybe only travels on weekends. They have different packs for really every type of traveler and against your travel dot com slash to get ten percent off with the promo code travel. You'll also be supporting this show if you decide to pick up anything over there through that link and using that promo code, and I thank you. So very much in advance for that. So every time I go through airport security, usually I'm tired and fed up an annoyed and it's hot. Now, I live in Norway in the security here at the airport is it's a dream, really. And I find this in many European airports for some reason the American airports, I don't think have figured it out. But I haven't had as many long waits or ridiculous lines to go through and particularly here in Oslo there. Just so officiant you get there. Usually you're waiting for handful minutes if that and it's a wonderful experience. But even still even if you're not dealing with the long lines, and and the heat, and the crowds and all that which. Nothing drives me crazy going through airport security. You think I'd be chill about it by now? Right. You think I'd have this Zan approach to it? But. Those long lines and the inefficiencies that you see in American airports in particular, always drive me a little bit Batty. So anyway, you can be really tired. You can be annoyed. You can be eligible, whatever it's easy to kind of lose track of your stuff. So what I do when I have to take off my shoes. And I'm in an American airport. You should have to do that. I put all of my small stuff in my shoes. So I take my shoes off. And then I take my wallet. I take my rings or jewelry or watches. I'll take my watch off. And if I have some rings, all actually bracelets, I'll put bracelets and rings around my watch, and I'll close the watch. So it's just kind of holding all those now, I'll take all my change my wall and any small things and put them in my shoes, including passport and everything. And that way when it comes out of the other side, and I'm tired or cranky or whatever there's not a random ring or random piece of change or something. That's just sitting in the. Corner of the little been that I happen to forget because everything's in my shoes. And even if I forget there in my shoes, which I never would my Walton everything when you go to put your shoes on you're gonna find everything they're so you'll find it again. So that's one of my favorite little airport security hacks. I love to put all my stuff on my shoes and just having all in one place when I get out. So try it out next time you're at the airport. See if you like it if you can be forgetful like me too good way to keep track of your stuff. Okay. I'll leave you with a quote today. From Winston Churchill who said success is not final failure is not fatal. It is the courage to continue that counts. Thanks again for listening. I'll see next time. This podcast has been brought to you by Zilin to travel ideas and advice to make your travel dreams. Who?