His Alibi: The Murder of Michelle Young
True Crime Brewery contains disturbing content related to real life crimes. Medical Information is opinion based on facts of a crime and should not be interpreted as medical advice or treatment listener discretion is advised welcome to true crime Murray. I'm Jill and under and today we're talking about. The murder of Michelle Young Michelle Michelle Jason Young lived in a suburb outside of Raleigh North Carolina. They had a two year old daughter named Cassidy and Michelle was five months pregnant with their second child. Now by all accounts theirs was not a very happy marriage. Jason had several affairs and he spent a lot of time on the road for business on the morning of November third two thousand six Jason was out of town he had checked into a Hampton Inn in Huntsville Virginia Kenya one hundred and seventy miles from rally the night before at nine that morning he left a voicemail for Michelle's younger sister Meredith Fisher asking her to stop by his house and retrieved some papers for him. When Meredith arrived at the home she found Michelle brutally murdered in the master bedroom? Little Cassidy was there and she had been left unharmed now. It didn't take long for Jason to become the primary suspect in his wife's murder. Investigators instigators were able to poke holes in his alibi and put together a strong circumstantial case so join us at the quiet and today for his alibi the murder of Michelle Young this is a tragic story of a young. I'm pregnant mother who was actually beaten to death in her own home and her husband Jason would end up getting two trials but not everyone would be satisfied with the outcome now. What kind of a beer do we have today? I actually have a beer out of Raleigh. It's called Pie time brewed by Beryl culture brewing and blending when of your favorites. It's a wild male. This is the beer I'm excited to try because they haven't had it before. Nope it's a pretty nice we're very pretty beard so Magenta colour kind of purplish red little tiny thin head but a bit of lace then we get into the good stuff cherry raspberry jam coconut in the aroma similar to the taste cherry sour cherry coconut. I also got some Graham crackers in the taste. Wow that's interesting so it's Kinda like sitting down and eating your piece of Pie. Yeah I can see the Graham cracker yeah yum too nice sweet crispier very good all right well. Let's not hesitate. Let's open it right up desserts on okay. Let's go down to the quay and end in. Have some Pie your group down. There is happy to see us again. We went missing for a week or so. We did travel back to Maine saw some old friends. You got some golfing done but you know true. Crime Brewery never really left my mind cause. We're still working on the website and we started working on this case which actually I'm glad we had a week off. 'cause there was a lot of research to be done on. This certainly was yeah although it was interesting so it wasn't bad to do no no okay. Why don't you start us out and talk about the case okay? Allen and Linda Fischer had two daughters Michelle Yeoh this was born in nineteen seventy seven and meredith was born in nineteen eighty lived a comfortable middle class. Life Michelle is a nurturing child. She liked playing mother and teacher caring for her cabbage. Patch kids dolls she excelled in academics and as one of the more popular the kids in school both she and Meredith through cheerleaders from an early age and their mother coached them at Sayreville junior high but the Fisher family had their problems by the time Michelle became a teen her parents were sleeping in separate bedrooms bedrooms and barely speaking to each other they had made the decision to stay together for the sake of the children but the dysfunctional relationship was obvious to most everybody sure and is it really better to stay together for the kids or is it better to break up. I mean I think it's a double edged. Sword can go either way it can but I think if you can at least separate and get out of that toxic environment. That's that's benefit right and hopefully raise as the children in a cooperative way so that's the big if right yeah that doesn't happen too often so Michelle coped with attention in her home by putting Oliver Energy in the schoolwork in high school. She was a member of the National Honor Society was fluent in three languages and she co captained the cheering squad in her senior year cheerleading team when the Long Island cheerleading association's Championship by the time. I shall graduated high school she she had a full semester of college. Credits racked up from completing a P. courses now practical and organizers she was she started looking for colleges when she was in tenth grade. By the time she was a junior she had narrowed her list of four colleges colleges so her mind Linda took Michelle and Meredith on a road trip to visit them when they visited North Carolina state in Raleigh Michaud loved it she had no problem getting in there with her grades extracurricular activities and she continue to do really well in college sheared as and she made the wolfpack cheering squad as a freshman and then after she stopped cheering for the wolfpack she attended nearly every home football and basketball game all through her college years ears. She was a really loyal fan used truck. The cheerleading cushion wanted to concentrate on her studies taking too much time sure it does take a lot of time I mean it's just like a sport any other sport right but with money that Linda her mother had obtained when she divorced Michelle's father Alan. Linda bought a Condo just a few minutes away from the North Carolina State campus and Michelle was lucky because she was able to live there with her friends and her sorority sisters and chill she went on and earned her masters degree in accounting and that was in the year two thousand knows it just me or do you think it's a little weird. The MOM had to buy a condo right there so she could live there well weird. I don't know I mean we're going to find out as we talk about this that they had a very close relationship. Whether you think it's weird or not is a matter of opinion. I guessed but I do think if apparent Viseu Condo when you're in college that's pretty awesome. I guess Awesomeness winward for it. Well I mean it's lucky you don't have to live in a dorm. You don't have to pay your own rent hood as lucky I guess you could look at it. His <hes> also earning some income. Obviously they must've charge rent to the other girls that were living there palpably himself and when she does sell it she probably could make some money on it right so could be an investment could be that's true because you know paying for dorm isn't cheap either Norton. Some Michelle began her accounting career at a firm in downtown rally to that point in life Michelle had succeeded just about everything she tried the only real a sore spot in her life seemed to be relationship with her dad. After Allen and Linda divorced she and her dad headed decent relationship but that changed really quickly after he married his second wife and Michelle and the second wife if did not get along Michelle call her the evil step monster and her name was June and she didn't like Michelle in got to the point where she wouldn't even let Michelle visit her father in their New Jersey Hall so I don't know what all that's <music> out that seems super. Dysfunctional does not a real toxic environment holy cow well. I just wonder why her father would allow that. That's just not cool. I mean one thing we know when you marry someone in they have children. You have to accept their children as your own whether you like it or not and you don't do shit like that no even if kid causing the evil step monster it's up to June to allow her to visit sure and up to your dad yeah so to Michelle you know it seemed like her father chose his new wife over her and I can see why certainly would and her father and her became estranged so is in February of two thousand one when Michelle celebrated her twenty fourth birthday she was with friends at the Poorhouse Peo- you are a downtown rally pup Jason Young was at the bar and he was hanging out with some of his old college friends he accidentally knocked over Michelle's glass of wine and offered to buy her another glass and that's when they began to chat they were both recent North Carolina state graduates and they were both big wolf pack fans now at the time time Jason was living with his mother and stepfather in Bavard while working as a salesman for black and decker and before long he was making weekend trips to rally to spend time with Michelle so they got pretty serious pretty quickly. They did not a whirlwind courtship but it moves pretty fast it said and they're very different right. Is there like opposite people. Absolutely I guess they had the college sports in common but she associate area since so accomplished in he was kind of <hes> I don't know is a jerk too strong of a word well. Maybe he was Kinda flighty. Would you say lady petuous head of like a frat boy type mentality yeah now. That's that's a great description that gives you a good idea yeah so jason of decided he wanted to move back to Raleigh to be closer to the show so he rented a townhouse with his friend Ryan shod and got a job as a pharmaceutical sales representative with Panamerican lands the shows attracted to Jason's unpredictability and his practical jokes and probably his bad boy image did attractor Russell which I can see because he wasn't like some kind of slacker he had a decent job so I guess that would offset the whole breadth boy thing and she probably thought you know he's young. He's going to settle down more sure. He's responsible symbol enough to get this job she sending she'll change him. Yeah well. A lot of girls think that so Jason's mom pat young really liked Michelle right from the beginning because they both like to Cook Cook and they would share recipes and do stuff together so that was fine. Things weren't as great on the other side though since she was a little girl Michelle had planned a long engagement and a big wedding but in the summer of two thousand three she found out she was pregnant. She and Jason were living together but they hadn't made any marriage plans and not relieve in talked about it. Michelle was uncertain about how Jason would react to this news they had been together for two years but she knew that he loved his freedom and he was in no hurry to have kids and settle down so not surprisingly his first reaction was shot and he wasn't really happy he told Michelle wasn't ready for marriage or for fatherhood but somehow over the next couple of weeks. They did decide to get married so we don't know if she convinced him or if he reconsidered. We don't really know what the influences were there. Although it's implied that maybe she kinda talked him into it back because she did want to have this child and get married her absolutely he thinks are doing her much. Doubt the there is some pressure exerted right so it's more about pressure than love which is not a good start. It's not a good story so so not only was Michelle unmarried pregnant but she also had no health insurance so one practical thing was that if she jason married his policy would cover the birth of their child. It's no small inducement. I don't know if you get married over that. Though no I mean I think it's part of the puzzle here well. I mean they're probably thinking where together anyway so in when you're that early on you don't really know what it entails to the apparent. No you don't know so in August two two thousand three. Jason and Michelle were married at the Wake County Public Safety Center in downtown Raleigh. Linda was the only family member in attendance. Though the Aug ceremony served as the official wedding Michelle still planned the big wedding she had always wanted and that event happened on Friday October tenth. Listen a couple of months later. It's interesting to me when he go through with this <hes> quickey public ceremony if you're already planning on the big one. I'm guessing that was for the insurance in just to have the paperwork okay. I'll go with that. It's all I can figure and about one month before that big wedding Michelle was offered a position as the financial specialists that was in the Tax Department of a company called Progress Energy. She planned to take a short maternity leave and to resume working as quickly as she could and having recently graduated from college in New York her assist Meredith was ready to leave her mother's house so the birth of her niece gave her an excellent Opportunity Meredith agreed that she'd moved to the Raleigh area when the baby was born and she could be cassidy's nanny when her sister returned to work so it was Michelle who asked her sister. Would you consider I know you've just graduated and you don't have a job or anything yet. Would you consider moving down here and taking care of the new baby and I guess that Jason was okay with that right. It was more the mother he had an issue. Oh yeah no question but no I think he was okay with that because that would hope Michelle and it would save money I would expect who would save money and it would get Michelle back to work who you quicker. Maybe and it's always you know depending on your family. It's usually better to leave your baby with a family member then a stranger hoosier yeah but the baby cassidy was in the Breech position in the final weeks of Michelle's else pregnancy and they tried the repositioning. What do they call that a version version which are terribly painful in half the time? They don't work anyway. I don't know that's a whole other topic. I just don't know why people are so hard about Herman or virginal delivery I know right I agree with you on that. I am totally okay with C.. Sections and in some countries that's what most people do but then you've got the whole natural thing and you know everybody has an opinion do they do but it almost seems like a lot of the obstetricians midwives insist on trying these of versions before versions these versions will their adverse right but it seems like a lot of them plan on doing that. Ah instead of just planning a C section yeah we'll anywhere. She ended up having a planned our scheduled Caesarean section which is what usually happens yeah yeah so the baby cassidy Elizabeth Young was born on March twenty ninth two thousand for and Michelle did really well with motherhood. She was way into it no problems. Everything seemed to go beautifully so the only thing she felt like she had missing from her big life. Plan was having the you know the really nice big big house with a yard and she wanted to buy a house. Well you're married. They have a kid. They have the dog right docs important. We need a house right so she really fell in love with this house. On Birch Leaf drive it was in the enchanted oaks subdivision. So how can you beat that that sounds like a fairytale books yeah and it was a lovely house really was the lots were large in wooded and the houses were spread out so there's plenty of privacy he had a huge kitchen and front and back yards and there was also a community pool that they could walk to so this is the ideal family neighborhood. It is an to me doesn't seem exactly like a simple starter home. Oh no not at all who's a big house but that's kind of how things are headed. I mean even in our neighborhood most of the young families moving in our building you know mcmansions their big houses were bigger than ours anywhere three car garages yeah yeah so I think that's kind of the way that things are. There really isn't the small starter home like there was you know in the fifties and sixties that you see in the movies kneeled movies so she and Jason came up with the down payment they qualified for a mortgage and they moved right in that July after purchasing their dream Home Michelle ever practical decided to have their wills prepared so Michelle and Jason agreed on everything except who was going going to be cassidy's guardian if they both died Michelle believed that meredith would be the best guardian for their daughter in Jason wanted his sister heather to be the Guardian and he did convince Michelle that it was more sensible bowl to have heather because she was already married and then they decided well. We'll revisit this issue in three years but will just choose heather for now because meredith is still single. She's working at a bar. I believe she's not nearly to settle this. Heather was no but just didn't make an agreement to revisit the issue would indicate to me that Michelle Beltway. If Meredith settled down got married that she would end up being named the guardian of the child well absolutely I mean another thing is if meredith was her. Nanny then meredith is going to have a a very close relationship with the child from the beginning right and that would make more sense but let's talk a little bit about Michelle's relationship with her mother because we're both a little on the fence about that or maybe you're even over the fence about that. You're not on the sense now. Okay you've jumped the fence a mover okay well. She dies been very close to her mother and when the the divorce happened with their mom and dad she was definitely on her mom's side but this became especially true when she needed to talk to someone about problems she was having in her marriage to Jason she would call in on her cell phone as she drove home from work every every day and they often spoke more than once a day. Linda was there with Michelle for Cassidy's birth. She became a frequent visitor to birch leaf drive to spend time with her granddaughter and because she was a schoolteacher Linda was able to spend a lot of time in Raleigh. During the summers. Especially and Michelle was just thrilled about this she loved it but for Jason he was really annoyed because he had a mother in law. Who seemed you know frankly kind of overbearing I? I don't think they liked each other now. And there's a lot behind that I mean I can kind of see if your wife's talking to her mom twice a day and telling her all of your problems. That's really not cool no see so you're not on the fence here over the fence too. I get the impression that Linda was kind of a but inskeep yes rather than discuss with her husband problems in their marriage she pointed out to her mother and what's what's mom undo she's GonNa Take Michelle's side right and it's never a good idea to talk to someone outside of your relationship about these problems because they're not gonNa let it go. You and your partner are GonNa make up. Get over it but these other people in your life are GonNa hold it against them right and I think that's what happened now. I like to give credit to a close mother daughter relationship. I think that's great but I do think this is a little not healthy. The marriage especially crosses to mind in terms. You've closeness hang up yeah. I think you're right but buying the Condo Kinda gave me that feeling to know. That's thought that from the start yeah yeah I think maybe in this is going a little bit far out there because I don't know that much about it but I do kind of get the feeling that Linda had this marriage that was just terrible and she was estranged from her husband before they even divorced and she really put her attention on her daughters and Michelle was the favourite because Michelle was the more accomplished daughter. You don't think there's any question Michelle was the favourite daughter yeah so by. The spring of two thousand six Michelle was pregnant again but this time they planned it. She and Jason traveled to provide over over the Memorial Day weekend to tell Jason's family this news Jason and Michelle left Cassidy with his mom and Stepdad that morning because they were planning to head back to rally and they wanted to go to starbucks and get some coffees I I jason was driving a Mitsubishi S._U._V. With Michelle in the passenger seat and he lost control of the car it nearly went off the road to their right and he steered sharply left and then the car fell more than one hundred feet. Hey down embankment into the French Broad River water started filling their car but Michelle and Jason were able to escape and they climbed up the embankment but the S._U._v. of course sunk into the river and and then they were both okay everything seemed fine but Michelle lost her pregnancy a few days later and I guess it was related I mean we don't really know I would think maybe the seat belts. Are something here Luke these. These were done in embankment or something one hundred feet that's quite a fall into the river and the cab of the vehicle stern fill with water. Yes there's some panic going on there so there is some suggestion by some people that he did this on the purpose. Wasn't there was proposed. I don't really see that though no now he didn't make any attempt to jump out of the car now in gem outlet the cargo for sort of their people right right right yeah so I don't know if you did it on purpose any people that knew them said that they had planned this pregnancy and they both wanted it 'cause they did say the Jason did want a son so couple of months later not even quite wait a couple months later Jason Outta town on a business trip when Michelle tested and found out she was pregnant again in when she told Jason he seemed pretty happy pretty excited about the news now. This new pregnancy had Michaud reconsidering her career career her son Ryland. That's the name they were gonNA. Give him wasn't until March two thousand seven but by early October two thousand six Michelle had prepared a five page presentation for her supervisors to convince them to let her work part-time our time after her son was born so it wasn't gonNA just be part time's pretty close to full time as more flextime. This woman was right on top of things to you. She planned so she was going to work Tuesday Wednesday Thursday ten hours a day with her mother providing childcare for this new baby yeah the mom doing the child care was a bone of contention well again. Jason didn't want his mother-in-law spending that much time at their house right and I can kind hennessy it but before we move forward with the problems in the young's marriage leading up to Michelle's murder. Let's just talk a little bit about Jason's Childhood in his young adult years because he did have quite a reputation as a womanizer and is kind of on obnoxious drunk but depending on your source he was either this fun loving imperfect guy or an unfaithful murderous manipulator or somewhere in between which is is usually where the truth lies so he grew up in Brevard North Carolina with his mother Pat and his two sisters heather and Kimberly. Their father died when Jason just five years old and when he was seven his mother began N.. Dating a guy named Gerald McIntyre may have eventually married and Gerald became a good father to pets kids now friend and family described Jason as outgoing and fun guy lots of friends. The android sports camping hiking even hiked the Appalachian trail two thousand plus miles so a lot of hiking. That's an accomplishment when afi through hiked or did it piecemeal. I don't know because he's is pretty young to have done that but he did really enjoy teasing people who knows whether it was on good fun or fuser current obnoxious and cool about it the for debate depending on who you're talking to yes sister heather would be call how Jason described the birth of his daughter Cassidy in how he felt this instant bond with her so heather thought that he was a great loving guy. What's his sister to you know we'll sure and most people would agree though that Jason was an attentive and caring father to cassidy acidy? Nobody really argued that no but he could be an obnoxious drunk. Sometimes Oh yeah stories his favorite thing when he got drunk was to pull out his penis or or take his clothes off yes this is this with a bunch of couples yeah just hanging around the locker room of the guys well. I don't think I do that in the locker room either do they. You're taking showers him. Did you not fleeing it around and doing Dick Tricks is what he did. No you probably not <unk>. I hope not what parents he had been in so Michelle was found murdered in her own bedroom Friday November third two thousand six cassidy was just two years old. Jason and Michelle had been married for just over through three years Michelle Sister Meredith woke up about twelve fifteen pm that day because her phone was ringing Jason at called her twice and left a message about some Ebay printouts that he had left at the House and he didn't want Michelle to see them so he'd said that he was planning on buying a designer handbag for Michelle as a belated anniversary gift and he wanted to surprise her so jason asked Meredith for a huge favor to go to his and Michelle's house house to pull some pronounce of ebay coach purse auctions of the printer in their second floor office. He explained in his voice. Now I kind of screwed up last night and I thought I grabbed that stuff and put it in the bag to take with me but would I think it's sitting there on the printer I talked to Michelle late last night and I don't think she seen it but I do want to still surprise her and then he went on to say that he was on the way to his mother's house and had horrible phone reception so he had to hang up this is I think setting up an alibi for him and getting the body discovered well not only the body discovered and the child right He may have hit some concern if he was the murderer that that a child was left with her mother's dead body in the house and no one else for several hours who's just this whole thing about. I get some printouts of Ebay coach purse auctions in why would you even do that and you know this was a week or two after their anniversary where he'd given her starbucks gift cards who's on the road and if he had sent a card with some starbucks gift cards how romantic Hainault right hang shitty but doesn't make him a killer caller. No now so I mean on the one hand I can see yeah. I'm GonNa buy a nice purse and I might ask her sister. which purses were purse? She thinks that Michelle had lake right right so that if I just look burglary but why would you print them out and also he had printed out some mapquest directions remember those and they probably would have been on the printer together or at least at a close you know at a time close to one another so how did he forget those in not the directions. It's all a little hinky. It is yeah some meredith through over to Michelle Jason's house but when fifteen in the afternoon and even though it was a sunny day the outdoor lights the driveway entrance was still on and that's unusual meredith also noticed the gate to the backyard was open which also seem strange because the young's Doug who is a black lab mix named Mr Garrison would usually be <hes> Princeton backyard. Yes Meredith perked her car by the front walkway and approached the front door where she was able to hear the dog whimpering inside. She said that she reached for the Hausky on her keychain than she remembered that she'd recently given it to a friend to feed the dog back when she jason and Michelle and Cassidy had gone on a trip to New York so she went to the back of the house where a door into the garage was usually left unlocked but when she tried that door was locked does well so meredith remembered that the electronic garage door opener wasn't working so that meant she was able to manually lift the door just high enough to slide underneath to the inside of the garage it when she got inside she was seriously surprised when she saw Michelle Silver Lexus S._U._v. sitting in the garage because Michelle was supposed to be at work. This is a Monday morning. She shouldn't be there right so it's not clear to me who was supposed to be watching cassidy because I thought meredith was supposed to be the nanny so there must have been a daycare situation. I don't know if she is still the nanny when cassidy was a two year old right maybe not Arthur chewed not signed on for years and I just didn't think she was a nanny for her sister or niece anymore right which makes sense but at this point of course she's very worried initially walked through the unlocked kitchen door meredith some <hes> Michelle's purse on the floor leaning against a small desk in the kitchen she called out for Michelle and ran up the stairs to the second floor bedrooms and as she reached the top of the stairs meredith could see dark red streaks in Cassidy's cassidys bathroom to the right of the landing there were also red stains on the bathroom floor and on the Hallway carpeting in these were actually tiny little footprints that were cassidy's size so meredith turn to face the master bedroom and on the left side of the room there were bright red spots splattered across the walls and these reached all the way up to the ceiling near Jason's closet the red liquid soaked through the white comforter on Michelle's side of the bed and on her pillow just to the left of the bed face down in a large pool of blood she saw Michelle's lifeless body so frantically meredith reached for the cordless phone on the nightstand next to the other side of the bed and she barely really punched in nine one one when she heard rustling from under the bed covers would net send you through the ceiling come across this horrible scene and you're getting ready to call nine one one and his movement which job yeah yeah but cassidy crawled out from beneath the covers and she was just looking at her aunt and cassidy appeared unharmed though she was wearing pink fleas pajamas with no socks no diaper no underwear and in spite of these tiny red footprints on her bathroom floor in the hallway carpet she was oddly clean so cassidy lunch shored her on and just kinda hooked onto her hip like a Koala bear and Meredith held her niece as she spoke to the nine one one operator. You're so right here. I'm going to play the nine one one call because there's a lot about it that people have brought up some people to accuse meredith others to accuse Jason So let's listen to that and then we'll talk about it a little bit. I imagine say so. You haven't him virtually fifty one eight personally for number. What's your phone number problems exactly what happened? <hes> I think my sisters tell me what happened man. I have no idea home I call on the phone with us. Your name and this is the young address home. I listen to me. Police are you with the patient. Neil Daughter Station everywhere twenty twenty eight tried to move listened to me ma'am. I'm GonNa tell you what to do. You need to come down so we can helper you said the word everywhere all right. Is She conscious. I don't think so should I try to listen to me Ma'am issue breathing. I don't think so have you checked. She called Okay Awesome. Did you see what happened. I don't know I'm here with my daughter like Brad footprints all over the house for her daughter's full pensa listen to me. What's your first name? Yeah there. You see what happened fifteen year on a fluke. I usually don't come here during the day she shouldn't be home. She should be at work like listen I now. Can you tell me why Russia looks that looks like she said I don't know I have no idea what all over the Jason She's Cold Chang Yeah. Okay <music> happened to Mommy. Do you think she's beyond any hill honesty right. I'm very good. I'm trying to do in okay. Are you right by our name daughter so you're not with their right up five bedrooms can can you give her daughter Sukuzi. Can you the phone university that can you secure her daughter. Can you find your own. Put you seconds. Okay okay okay. Can you call the doctor two seconds on okay always okay. You got a cordless phone all right okay all right. is she laying on her back. She's owner so she's by staying you can you can you get her back. Hopefully God show. I don't think she's so heavy on about. She's bad orden. I really think she's bad. Are you certain hang on you. I'm pretty sure we need to make sure okay. We're back for me. She kind of twisted in a way that I can't do that. You can't roller over not easily strong. Let me I'm trying to see if her poll. We gotTA TRY TO DO C._P._R.. We often get her on the bike. She's called. She's cold all right okay. If she's called commit she can do anything I try not not to touch anything more than you did was anything out of place or unusual when you came in fifth place is not look like what it normally looks like in the bag. Okay all right. Try to set you anything else. Just everything is like alert. Is there anything else unusual here. The dog was freaking out when I got here with anybody here Sweetie Ernest. I'm getting the sheriff's Tacoma to pick up on the line with us. We need to talk to you about what you're seeing time. I'm brief them on what happened and you just don't run. What shall I say mayor or are you? A relative only suspect okay all right so some possible issues with this call. We're brought up in the book absence of innocence by Lynn Blanchard. You might say that win. Blanchard wrote this book weaving that Jason was innocent. Oh completely I mean it's a book claiming his innocence right. She's not subtle about it and while it's understandable that meredith may have been in shock. She didn't check on Michelle before placing the call. That's one one of the things that Lynn Blanchard brought up in her book. What do you think about that well? I know meredith is a medical person but I think she could pretty easily look at her sister and realize quickly yes she was. Did I agree with you. I I totally agree with that because she was accused in the book of not demanding immediate assistance for her sister of being preoccupied with cassidy win seconds could have counted to save Michelle and that she didn't respond exactly to the direct questions that were asked of her by the operator. She also refused to turn her sister's body over to attempt C._p._r.. She refused well. I mean I was wondering about that because she said Eh hadn't. She put it that she couldn't turn her over easily because she had rigor mortis right but she said not easily. She didn't say I can't do it. She said I can't do it easily. Which I wouldn't expect it to be easy who wouldn't have been but then which is kind of nitpicking I think because if she's in rigor mortis than it would be really tough? It's not like she was just straight as an Arrow her legs were a certain way and you know it was a horrible situation. Another thing brought up about meredith where her responses seem to indicate that she already knew Michelle was dead when she placed the call now we've already said. We think that it'd be pretty easy to tell if someone's been dead for hours. You don't have to be a doctor to know now or have a pretty good idea. Yeah I can see somebody saying well. She still should've checked right but again. I think it was clear enough that she was dead well. It seems like she did check after the operator I asked her to but I can kind of see why she would be preoccupied with cassidy. I mean here's this little toddler and a smart little girl who was quite communicative wrote and quite aware of her surroundings and a child who to meredith had cared for as her nanny. Yes not just her her niece discern caretaker for so this. There's a lot of things you'd probably want to make sure that the the baby's okay right and you you have to be thinking thinking what is this child seen and been through some meredith claim that she called nine one one from the house phone on the bedside table but according to Lynn Blanchard this call didn't originate from that phone wasn't listed on the phone records or on her cellphone records so she brought up this whole idea of what phone was used to place the call and I really didn't see much significance in that but I almost had to chuckle when she said is it possible. The call was placed with a disposable cell phone. They were getting into conspiracy theories. They're it's a bit of a stretch. Why why would she do that? I don't know and there's no evidence that there was a disposable cell phone that she purchased one so I really can see a lot a lot of the points made in that book absence of evidence but when she started pointing fingers at Marietta she kind of lost me another point she brought up is that meredith couldn't remember where she'd placed her car. Keys and police leased found them later that day on the hood of Michelle's Lexus and she had no explanation for how they got there but let's remember she crawled in through the garage notice the car so would have been that onto just kinda toss. Her keys on the Lexus lushes going into the house in near panic by that time yeah I don't know how significant is that your her keys. Were on the hood of the Lexus. If significant at all right I'm not gonNA worry about that okay before during the real nitty gritty let's take a short break for our sponsors sure I'd like to tell our listeners about one of my favorite beauty products and that of course is Madison Reed hair-color. You can take coloring your hair at home to the next level by using Madison Reed Madison Reed gives you gorgeous professional hair-color delivered to your door for less than twenty five dollars and medicine read hair color is one of a kind because it's multi dimensional and it gives gives you your choice of over forty five multi tonal shades in these have been developed by master colorist who really know how to blend nuances so you get the warm the cool the light the dark to make it look more natural. Many of our listeners recieve written to tell me how Madison Reed hair-color has improved their lives and I totally get it. It's a small thing but it makes a difference. 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If you choose to subscribe you can save two dollars per stick and you can have your favorite scent delivered. On whatever schedule will you choose for twenty percent off your first purchase visit native Deodorant Dot Com and use Promo Code Brewery during checkout. That's native Deodorant Dot Com Promo Code Brewery for twenty percent off your I purchase so back to the episode the Baby Too Euro Cassidy had probably been alone in the house for several hours so one of the paramedics checked her vital signs examiner briefly. The baby was surprisingly. Frighteningly common had no visible blood honor despite the evidence that she'd smeared blood on the walls and left tiny bloody footprints in the hall bathroom so it seemed obvious that someone had cleaned her up and that's a bit of mystery isn't it who it is now years later the paramedic would tell prosecutors that he believed Meredith said she'd clean cassidy up but he couldn't be certain it did not grasp the significance remembering whether she had actually said that well now at that point. They didn't know what we've read so far Casio's clean when meredith arrived yes. That's what Meredith said and there's no evidence that meredith took time to clean her up so she was outside. She was <unk> holding cassidy on her hip and she made some phone calls. She called her roommate colleen. She also called her mom but she didn't have a chance in that first call to tell Linda about Michelle Linda had told her she would have to call her back because she was getting her hair done on now. That was odd. I mean why didn't meredith just say it's an emergency you now. Don't have something finish your hair appointment. Call me when you're done so that's something I agree as odd so deputy herb of the Wake County Sheriff's Office was one of the first police officers at the scene while securing the inside of the house he noticed a huge amount of blood near the body and the small bloody footprints on the bathroom floor after exiting the home he asked Meredith if cassidy had been cleaned up and she said no now he was expecting her to say yes because while he was in the house he noticed the footprints in blood on the second floor hallway bathroom and cassidy did not appear to have any blood honor so somebody and cleaned her up by Meredith's account she wouldn't have had time to clean cassidy's hands and feet or change her clothing. She claimed that she placed that nine. One one call as soon as she arrived at the House and she found cassidy shockingly shockingly clean were her words so that could only really mean that the killers are killer or those who had knowledge of this crime were the ones that cleaned her up so meredith attempted to return on a second time in this time she supposedly supposedly said to her Michelle is D- D- spelling it out because cassidy was with her and this was as Linda was driving home from her hair appointment. Oddly the call lasted only two and a half minutes. I would expect it to the longer. You know. You think that you would stay on the phone. I don't know you just going to say oh my daughter's dead. I'm going to hang up and drive over. I'd stay on the phone as I was driving heard. Hang up and get there as fast as I could. Okay well just six minutes later. Linda called Jason from her home phone and left a message for him to call her back immediately then she called Pat Ya Jason's mom and told her she said my Michelle is dead now. This news was so shocking. The pet called Meredith to find out if was really true and according to Pat Meredith sounded so calm that she assumed it must have been a mistake but meredith did confirm the shows actually dead Merida's Veritas Toe pad that she couldn't talk long because detectives wanted to speak with her since meredith had given so few details paddock I wintered Michelle's death was related to some type of problem with the pregnancy meredith had never mentioned murder. I which Shh I'm okay with that. That doesn't necessarily mean anything you're. I don't know that I'd be thinking that WHO's pregnancy related but that's okay well. Young Woman dies. It's it's very unusual. You think it was something some kind of freak thing you sure so beginning on the day that Michelle was murdered investigators with the Wake County Sheriff's office began looking into the different aspects of Jason's life. They looked at his phone use his marriage his past relationships chiefs. If he had any affairs as well as his financial status they looked closely at all of his friends and family members as well since there were two different bloody shoe impressions found on an embroidered pillow. The police believed there may may have been an accomplice. Jason had a supportive family who love Michelle so police didn't believe that he could have relied on his mother sisters to help him murder Michelle that just didn't seem possible still they looked into all family early members ended clear them most of the Young's friends were couples with small children like themselves and none of them had any reason why they would have helped Jason Kill his wife also there was no evidence that any large payment had in made like he had hired someone no evidence of that police notice Jason had a lot of phone communication though with one of Michelle Sorority Sisters Michelle money from North Carolina state many of the women remained in touch after college and they continued having get togethers a few times a year so often spouses and children were brought to these events and get togethers in July of two thousand six they'd all met up in Myrtle beach at one of the Sorority we sisters homes and on that particular trip money had broken down about her own marital problems while she was talking with Jason Alone that September the same group got together for a long weekend at the young's house they went to a North Carolina State football game together and Michelle money and her husband Greg stayed with the Young's in their home for four nights. Jason and Michelle money had an opportunity to talk privately that weekend and he asked her marriage was doing. That's when they both realized how much they enjoyed talking with each other and they began talking just about every day on the phone. Neither one was happy in their marriage now. Since the money's lived in another state Michelle money in Jason didn't physically see each other very often but they did become really close and one weekend in October when her husband was away Jason traveled to Florida to be with her and they were intimate that weekend and continued speaking to each other daily and this went on all the way up until the day of Michelle Staff and then even afterwards we said Jason and his mother-in-law Linda didn't get along along very well and I think that's a could a description of any. That's mildly. I think they hit each other or he hated her. She didn't like him. Linda didn't believe Jason was good enough for her daughter and she would find fault and just throughout everything you did. She thought he was an irresponsible. Lazy Crude Person Jason Thought the Linda was overbearing and Mendelssohn and he didn't like how she and Michelle would tuck every day on the phone about his flaws as a husband while I agree I wouldn't like that either now. Linda had moved into their town home for an entire Munster in the summer of two thousand four to help out with cassidy so the thrill of moving into their virtually drive home or of quickly for Jason when his mother-in-law no candidate Roy to spend another month with them living in the guest bedroom choose just a few feet away from the master bedroom. Jason did do some working at home when he wasn't traveling so he he often felt like he's being watched and judged I will that's how he spent his days. If you're working from home he's there with Linda. I wouldn't like that. I mean even by like my mother-in-law. I don't think I'd want to be with her every day. No no so Linda was upset that rather than focusing his energy energy on his family and household responsibilities Jason was gone almost every evening he played in two softball leagues so Linda Watched Michelle tried to persuade him to drop down to only one sports league each season so he could be there to help out more with cassidy and be around the House of course Jason was aware of her disapproval of his priorities but he really didn't care what Linda thought and I could see that maybe he was doing this just to be away from home. He wanted to be out of the House as much as possible while his mother in law was there. You're now I'm saying that's the best way to go about things. It probably isn't but it seems like there just was no good communication between Michelle and Jason about things and all right because if you if she said I wish you were home Morsi can help with the baby yeah then all he can says well. You got your mom for that right or if they were in a good relationship he could say well. You know I'd be more comfortable being home or maybe your mom didn't didn't come by quite so much something like that. Whereas pretty radical yeah well communication would be nice it would be meredith would later described their relationship this way when Michelle L. and Jason would get in a fight Michelle would call Linda in cry and scream and yell and vent to Linda so as a mom? Linda was disappointed in frustrated with the way that her son in law was treating her daughter and we talked about that. It's just not really a healthy way that things were going. No her wasn't and there were occasions when Jason this Michelle not to call her mom every time she became upset with him as Michelle's complaints were making him look worse in Linda's is but Michelle really didn't you seem to be able to help herself doing that. Her mother had been the one person she could lean on and she continued to confide in her. Now I mean one point about this is he was verbally abusive at times and I could see a need to tell someone about that or get therapy or something if he's not responding appropriately year but if it's a co- when of the daily calls twice-daily calls right mum he did it again. Guess what he's done. Now Blah Blah Blah right yeah. That's not good on October. Twenty first two thousand six an old friend of Jason's flew into visit from Montana and that's where she lived with her husband and she was there to attend a real estate training course in Raleigh. This woman's name was Caroline Sour Spe- Michelle and Jason had offered her to stay in their guest room for several nights while she was there and that first evening she fell asleep on the Sofa in their den and when she woke up Jason told her to look in the mirror before she went back to sleep so when she turned on the light in the guest bedroom and looked in the mirror she saw that he drawn a mustache in black marker above her lips and an extra pair of black eyebrows above her eyes and this wasn't isn't that funny to her 'cause this. Is You know not coming off easily. Take a course right real estate course very mature and during dinner a few nights later he asked if he could see her wedding ring and when she handed it to him he immediately put it in his mouth gulped and said I've swallowed it now. You can't go back to Montana so she believed he'd swallowed it and she begged him to return it and he said she just have to delay her trip home until he passed the ring but neither Michelle nor caroline thought this was very funny. Now now did turn out he was hiding the ring in his cheek and he hadn't actually swelled it but Michelle was annoyed. She thought he was incredibly mature on October tenth. Two thousand six Michelle was alone for her third wedding anniversary. Jason was in Denver on business. Jason had been away from home since Saturday morning when he flew to Orlando to begin back to back business trips and this is when any sent her an anniversary card with some starbucks gift cards now the only bright side for Michelle was that her mother and grandmother were coming to take care of cassidy over that weekend so she and Jason could go to Winston Salem for a wedding in hang out with their friends shelly do and Ryan shod shelley and Michelle went to North Carolina state together and were both members of the L. Alpha Delta Pi Sorority Michelle had been shelley's big sister so they got along really well and they become roommates and live together for four years while Michelle finished her undergraduate and Masters degrees in accounting and Similarly Ryan and Jason had been best friends for many years so Michelle was really looking forward to spending a belated anniversary weekend with Jason Seeing her friends get married within days of her anniversary made her feel happy and she expected that maybe they'd have a romantic trip for once. She and Jason had a belated anniversary dinner planned for that Thursday evening right when Jason got home from Denver so her mom Linda Drove Michelle tour office in rally that Thursday morning so Jason could pick her up from work that evening and take her out to dinner but when Jason arrived that evening he was on his phone and he barely acknowledged her even though they hadn't seen each other in a week he continued his phone conversation during the entire fifteen minute drive to the restaurant and even stayed on his phone as they waited for their table as they were being seated he ended the call but the dinner didn't turn out to be romantic at all didn't get off to a good start now they got into an argument then over the travel arrangements to the wedding and this turned out to be a big deal for Michelle. Jason told her he planned to ride with the guys they plan to play golf while the women attended the bridal luncheon so he didn't even plan to travel with her right he was planning on leaving early. Get his round the Goffin and then go from there so the women didn't have to be there as early as amended so the guys are GonNa go up start the weekend on their own and the women would leave later now now Jason had told Michelle didn't make any sense for her to ride with him because you'd wind up waiting around for hours for the luncheon to start a Michelle didn't see it that way. She told Jason She had planned for them to have a romantic weekend together to make F- for him being away on their anniversary but Jason insisted he was going to play golf with his guys. He accused Michelle being selfish. His anger didn't go away during the ride home from dinner when they pulled up to the host drug Michaud often drove away so this guy seems totally checked out of his marriage. He's like avoiding her. Michelle was crying as she entered her house and she told her mom how Jason had ignored her the first part of the evening and then argued with her for the rest of the night. She told Linda she was going to get in her car and try and find Jason in Linda tried to stop her but Michelle left the house and soon after Michelle and Jason came back into the House but they were screaming at each other. Jason finally relented and agreed to take Michelle with him the next day they're a big of him but he insisted they would have to leave early enough for him to make his tee time and Michelle would have to just find a way to keep yourself busy until the bridal luncheon so so he does seem like kind of a dick he does and it wouldn't be that difficult for them to go up together. Yes so so she's GonNa have to find something to do. He doesn't have to Golf Dick. He doesn't have to right. They're having issues. They need to be investing in their relationship. He should be carrying more about his wife who should be but it's still wouldn't be that big a deal where they could travel together well and that's what they ended up doing but he didn't seem like he wanted on it too so I'm sure she didn't feel great about this under duress so I'm sure it wasn't a productive drive up in terms of conversation now and they don't think Michelle was probably feeling very good about herself tim treating her that way. She seems seems like she was invested in trying. If this marriage back on track she's pregnant with their second child in he's just kind of being <unk> now. I'm not really on board with her going to her mom about it but at the same time I can see her side you bet for sure so jason had arranged to meet the rest of the guys at a gas station in Greensboro early Friday morning so the the Michelle drove up to the meeting point. Jason looked over at Michelle and said I'm done. I'm out while his friends overheard them. Fighting Jason was visibly angry and he told the guys as they drove off that he was done with Michelle. Wow that's terrible said Jason went golfing that Friday before the wedding they were attending attending and Michelle was depressed over how things were going in her marriage but she tried to you know be happy for her friend. Shelly and she wanted to be there to support her at her wedding so she put on a happy face trying not to ruin the wedding and Jason Jason actually seemed to be having a great time at the reception you know as usual he was kind of the life of the party he tried his best to out drink his college buddies and then you know what happened. He went back to his old way of celebrating his drunkenness by zipping his fly turn from some districts right and this is in front of not only the guys but women as we said very inappropriate even parents are this is a wedding party. Isn't that awful yeah. It'd be devastated if I was her and for the next several days not surprisingly things did seem worse between Michelle and Jason then on Thursday November second. Jason had another business trip to go to Michelle invited did her friend Shelly over to tyler about her honeymoon to Italy and Shearson takeout food and they were GONNA watch a recording of their favourite show grey's anatomy. I know you love that show as well her elect Dr Mick Dreamy Right and it was very realistic. Goal is medical drums yes so she and her friend Shelly over an cassidy was upstairs playing in her room. This was right next to the Home Office where Jason was printing his driving directions and they went upstairs to get cassidy. They're going to have dinner but just before they got to the top step. Jason peaked out and said hello to shelley and while she michelle talked Jason went into the master bedroom to grab some clothes for Shelley to return to her husband now. This is pathetic because Jason had to borrow these clothes we need had too much to drink at Ryan's Bachelor Party and he urinated on his own clothing but he didn't even seem to be embarrassed about that. He wouldn't be does dictricts by word you embarrass. Irritating is nothing too soon on yourself right. He could say well. I wouldn't have done it if I hadn't been drunk so shelly took the clothes s Jason if you Wendy dinner with them but he said he needed to get going and he planned to stop at the cracker barrel in Greensborough for dinner so if you have to get going and you're gonNA stop and eat by yourself. Why wouldn't you just eat with your wife and then go in and did who's is on schedule so shelly Michelle and cassidy went downstairs to have their dinner and when they got finished shelly supervised cassidy using the toilet without any assistance so we're doing some potty training now she's just recently into that but she's already into big girl underwear and was pretty mostly accident free right so they were still in Cassidy's bathroom? When Jason came out of the master bedroom about seven fifteen ready to leave for his trip he he loaded up his explorer drove to a local gas station to fill it up and while there he began an hour long conversation with his mom pat young and he was hoping to visit her after his business trip so Jason told her might spend the night but he would need to wake up early Saturday morning to get back to rally in time for the North Carolina State football game that afternoon so no mention of getting back to his wife or his child just for the game hurts so Michelle took cassidy out of her bath dried or off put on her bedtime diaper dressed her in an undershirt and pink Fleece Pajamas? It was bedtime so after cassidy was in bed. Shelley and Michelle went into the den to talk doc and watch the show Michelle Shelley how she and Jason had been fighting about the upcoming holiday plans. Jason was refusing to allow Linda to be part of his family's Thanksgiving celebration in Bavard so Michelle explained that she was trying to limit Linda's time at their home over the Christmas holidays and that was you know because Jason wanted to but one thing that Michelle was happy about was the pregnancy that gave her some. I hope that things were going to be okay naively. Perhaps she thought we'll have a son in everything will get better between US naive. Yes so Michelle's father Alan called that evening also to tell Michelle he wasn't going to be able to make it to Raleigh that weekend for visit that he had been planning on Allen had recently been diagnosed with prostate cancer though as we sit her relationship with her father hadn't been easy since appearance divorced but she wanted him to be part of the children's since lives so she was upset both about his declining health and about his inability we'll get to Raleigh for visit so as nine o'clock a little after when she and Shelly Watch grey's anatomy on the D._v._r.. We are in towards the end of the show. Shelley asked Michelle issues scared living in such a secluded area Michelle said kind of casual of someone's going to break into kill you. They're GONNA kill you. While Oh wow shelly was so spooked by the time she was ready to leave. She has Michelle the Walker car. Michelle slipped on a pair of slippers and a coat and stepped out into the driveway with a friend to say good night so less than ninety minutes after leaving the cracker barrel restaurant in Greensboro Jason Exit Interstate seventy seven Andy pulled into the parking lot of the Hampton Inn. This was in the small town of Hillsdale Virginia. It was really cold barely above freezing and he had booked the room ahead but he was able to get a room and take the elevator up to the fourth floor. He called Michelle just before eleven p._M.. And they spoke for less than five minutes just long enough to let her know. Oh heat arrive safely and to say good night with his laptop out. Jason began preparing for his sales meeting the next morning which was in Clinton Virginia near the Kentucky border this would be his first solo sales call for his new employer chart one and though he was very good at the pharmaceutical sales he hadn't really yet gotten used to selling the electronic medical record software and that's what chart one sold so he reviewed some of the materials else he was planning to use it the sales meeting he made some calls and then he looked at sports websites until about midnight. Jason arrived at Dickinson Community Hospital more than thirty minutes late for a sales meeting on the third heard he said he'd gotten lost on the Kirby Mountain roads and it was a brief meeting. The hospital didn't seem interested in the software so Jason Got Directions to asheville which is the largest city between Clinton Boulevard where he stopped for gas and began a trip to his parents home and provide as he drove there he made several phone calls including one to Michelle's office at Progress Energy and another one to her cell phone and both calls went to voicemail. Jason decided did not to leave a message but he did leave a message for Merida that was the message about the Ebay printouts that he said he'd forgotten to take off of the printer so after not hearing from his sister-in-law for more than an hour Jason call this mom and asked her to try and get in touch with meredith letting her know how important it was that Michelle didn't see these printouts and of course the prosecution and people that believed that Jason killed his wife are going to believe that he was doing s. because he knew his daughter was alone in the House with his deceased wife so he was getting a little frantic about getting someone to go over there and discover the body so at one thirty seven pm that day Jason made a second call l. to meredith and that one went straight to voicemail any left a message. He said that he wanted to get an update that is phone had bad reception and he didn't know if she'd heard his whole message he also said he tried to calm shell but not super aggressively he said because he wanted to find out for sure if meredith had gotten those papers or not so he asked Meredith two column back in hung up when Jason pulled up to his home in boulevard where his mom and Stepdad lived and began walking to the front door it was obvious from his parents expressions that something was wrong. His mother Pat and stepfather Gerald were standing in the front yard holding each other. Jason walked up to them and he asked is a grandma in Gerald told him no Jason it's Michelle Michelle is debt and then according to pet and Gerald Jason dropped to his knees and began to sob his stepfather had to catch him and they helped him inside where he collapsed elapsed on the Sofa and was sobbing uncontrollably by the time his younger sister heather and her husband Joe got to the House. Jason was under a blanket kind of fetal position with his eyes red and swollen his face Pale and crumpled up tissues lime all around him and heather began to cry at the site of she put her arm around her big brother and told him how sorry she was so joe was driving Jason's explorer as zero headed to Raleigh Gerald had stayed behind to take the families pets. Jason was in the backseat with his mom Patrick Console and at one point he told her he would definitely lose the house because there's no way for him to pay it off without Michelle's income yeah but if he was aware aware of the large life insurance payout why would he say that or maybe he just said it as an attempt to seem like the Life Insurance was the furthest thing from his mind like he kind of forgotten about it although it still a weird thing to be worrying about soon when it's such a fresh death kidding. I'm not going to be before the house anymore right. I need her income so pet took several cell phone calls during her three hundred mile drive to rally after one of them. The police assess Jason if he was on his way back to rally meredith called till that Jason No the police wanted to speak with him and he needed to come to her house because his home of course now is a crime scene so it was nearly eleven p._m.. When when they got to the suburbs southwest of Raleigh where meredith was living when they were about five minutes from Meredith's house Pat got a call from Ryan Shad and Josh Dalton these Jason's friends calling to warn Jason that investigators were asking asking a lot of questions and were already looking at him as the prime suspect and they told pat the Jason needed to get a lawyer before he spoke with anyone so joe pulled into a parking lot at an applebee's so they could talk about what to do next? Heather called rally attorney who was helping her with a personal injury case amd because it was after hours no one answered but just a few minutes later his friend Ryan called back to let Jason No he'd found a high profile profile criminal defense attorney named Roger Smith who would meet with him that Monday but until then the lawyer had said Jason shouldn't speak with the police so Jason's family then headed for Meredith's home and when they got their meredith and Linda who had quickly arranged a flight from New York that afternoon were standing outside the front door ignoring Linda Jason went straight to Meredith and hugged her. She told him the police wanted to speak with him but he explained explain that he wouldn't be speaking with anyone until he met with his attorney. I like that. I think it's the smart thing to do but on the other hand a lot of people think that makes them look guilty. His wife's just died. Why is even thinking about an attorney you know as it turns out? He may be carried to the extreme yes but anyway if I was in that situation I would lawyer yes but if I was dead why would you care anymore. Your life would be over where of course so that's why I don't understand why why he would be so interested in protecting himself so early on although maybe he didn't really love her that wouldn't be too surprising but like you said he took it a little too far because he wouldn't talk to anyone not just the police he was refusing to speak with family members about it. They had cassidy in a bedroom and Jason went straight into see her she was asleep on the bed and he took off his shoes and slept next to her sheriff's Deputies and detectives in crime mm scene investigators were meticulously combing through every square inch of the young's house and that was within an hour of the nine one one call so they were right on top of it they found no sign of forced entry. Nothing on the entire I floor was disturbed or out of place at all there were only two small drops of blood detected downstairs and both were on the interior door knob of the door leading from the kitchen to the garage. There was no blood on the back staircase leading the kitchen area to the bonus room or even on the front staircase leading from the front foyer to the upstairs bedrooms but of course the second floor was a totally different story. Cassidy's bloody footprints were all over the upstairs landing in her bathroom floor including on a step stool in front of her seat and on agreed bath mat also blood was smeared on the walls of her bathroom at toddler height so logically at some point following the murder cassidy had been in that bathroom with the door closed one of her bloody socks was on the bathroom floor along with the yellow hooded towel that also had blood on it a drop of blood was found on the side of the bathtub and not another white towel but there was no evidence of any blood in the bathtub in the toilet or the sink is Michelle had apparently been attacked in her own bed split on the bidding that had dripped down onto the floor just to the left of Jason's Classic Classic Doorway near Michelle side of the bed and about a foot above the floor. It was an oval shaped gouge that had been made in the wall gauge appeared to be freshly made included a fresh amount of blood than on the floor directly beneath the gouge running along the baseboard and extending into the closet doorway. There is a large pool of partially coagulated blood that it's soaked through the carpet. Let a blood. It's a brutal crime scene. Yeah there were splashes in splattering of blood dotting the wall the baseboard the door molding Michelle's body was laying face down diagonally across the floor with her head pressed up against Jason's open closet door where there was a second pool blood that had formed under her severely battered face her legs were angled toward the middle of the bed and she was wearing black sweat pants with a white zip up hooded sweatshirt that had pink and red stripes on it Michelle's left elbow and forearm relying at the edge of the pool of blood and the left sleeve of her sweat shirt was completely soaked in blood her feet were bare enter right-foot under the bed and her left foot was resting against her right leg after investigators moved her body and closed Jason's closet door it became apparent that the blood splatter pattern on the wall next to the closet continued onto the exterior surface of the door so that means that she had been beaten up while that closet door was closed in your killer head to move her body to open that closet door so that really points at Jason certainly suggestion. Doesn't it really does next to the foot board besides Michelle side of the bed investigators discovered two distinct adult sized bloody shoeprints on the surface of a pillow they also discovered the two of the three drawers through Michelle's wooden jewelry box which was on top of the dresser near the bedrooms entrance had been removed the only other items noted to be missing or Michelle's engagement and wedding rings. They were not a ring finger and they weren't found anywhere else. In the house. In the master bathroom crime scene gene investigators used fennel failing which enhances traces of blood that the naked eye can't see they expected the seeing Speth Tub or shower to reveal some evidence of blood or even maybe the killers bloody fingerprints but they couldn't detect even a speck of blood anywhere in that bathroom. The only bloody fingerprints investigators found anywhere in the house belonged to the little girl cassidy every drop of the blood found at the house including the downstairs kitchen kitchen door knob was confirmed to be Michelle's blood investigators did find those ebay pronounce that Jason had been asking Meredith about just as his voice mail had indicated. They were lying on the printer in the second floor office. The only other clue investigators initially found significant was a garden hose in the garden hose was in the middle of concrete pathway by the back debt water was trickling out of the nozzle and a small the patch of the pathway was wet but there was no sign of blood not a draft blood on the hose the deck or the pathway so that had been used to clean up blood there would have had to be some remnant you would think wouldn't you think so yeah yeah investigators searched for murder weapon but didn't find anything. Michelle's autopsy showed that she had been beaten repeatedly in very forcefully enough to break a jaw mandible sticking hang out through the skin horrible teeth were knocked out who she is bludgeoned just really shows that there must have been rage. Yes it also looked like she defended herself struggled with the killer before she died her right hand was covered and scrapes bruises. Her left arm had bruising from the forearm down to the thumb. The medical examiner was sure these injuries came from Michelle trying to fight off her attacker. His report noted Michelle's head sustained more than twenty anti separate blunt force injuries lacerations were found all over the back of her head and a few were deep enough to expose skull. The medical examiner concluded that based on the crescent shape of the lacerations the attackers weapon and was a heavy blunt object with rounded surface the blows fractured Michelle skull in multiple places and resulted in hemorrhaging of her brain. She suffered a blow to the front of her face with both their lips being cut and several teeth is being knocked out and she was hit crosser left CIA so that there's a clean break the jawbone through the skin the medical examiner also noted extensive hemorrhaging to the soft tissue in Michelle's neck leading him to conclude or killer tried to strangle her right. So why would anyone be this angry at this woman you know it's just really hard to imagine to spas and there was no sign of a sexual assault so it really does make you think that it was the husband. Although there are some things that you would expect to see that you don't see through there were fingernail marks visible on the left side of her neck and the medical examiner believed that they were made by Michelle's own fingers I because she had probably been desperately trying to free herself. From a stranglehold Michelle was wearing panties beneath her sweatpants. There was not a single scratch or bruise below her neck so the medical examiner was able to to determine the cause of death was blunt force injury to Michelle's head he was unable to determine the time of death because too much time had passed and based on her body temperature and the degree to which your blood had coagulated she had been dead several hours before meredith arrived at one fifteen pm with the coon really narrow it down no so sheriff's deputies seized Jason's Ford Explorer and brought it downtown to rally to conduct a search and and they expected it to be full of evidence that would leak Jason to the mercy but it actually wasn't they relied on the female failing to detect traces of blood but after hours of searching the explorer not one drop of blood was found not inside of the explorer or on its exterior in not on or inside of any of Jason's luggage any of the things inside his suitcase or any of his family's luggage investigators did find several pieces the paper inside the S._U._V. which were the mapquest directions that Jason had printed out prior to leaving Virginia Plus Three different gas receipts and also a checkout receipt from the Hampton Inn so now that investigators knew the exact doc location of Jason's hotel. They sent a team out to hills Ville Virginia in they arrived there on the afternoon of November fourth in began interviewing the hotel manager in the rest of the staff because Jason's primary Alibi Alibi was the hotel yeah so investigators wanted to learn everything they could about his arrival in November second the time of his departure in where he'd been in between the hotel is one hundred sixty nine miles from the young's home in Raleigh Oy detectives had already determined from cellphone records. Jason's phone pinged the Cell Tower in Wytheville Virginia Twenty seven miles from Hills Ville at seven forty a m a November third so based on the distance between hills Roseville in Raleigh. It would have taken Jason at least six hours to try to Raleigh to commit the murder returned to the Hampton long enough to retrieve the checkout receipt newspaper and then drive onto Wytheville investigators Peter's needed to confirm the last time he could be verified to be at the hotel and whether the timeline lift the possibility jason could have been Michelle's murderer and they also wanted to determine if any evidence from the murder scene could be found in his hotel room right but a search of his room turned up no evidence even with the use of the fetal failing even though the room had been cleaned by maid service the chemical should have detected any trace amounts of blood if there was any there but it didn't security video from surveillance cameras showed the Jason first appeared at the hotel's front desk between ten forty nine and ten fifty one in the evening on November second black and white video showed him wearing light colored long one sleeve pullover shirt with buttons from the mid chest area to his neck. He arrived at his room at ten fifty six P._M.. And that was the only time he used his plastic keycard twin locked the door then at eleven fifty nine pm bat an hour after are you checked in security video shows Jason at the front desk a second time and this time he had on a different shirt was dark colored long sleeved pullover with a light colored thin stripe across the chest less than a a minute later. Another security camera showed him headed toward the side exit at the western end of the hotel near a stairwell. This was the last time Jason's presence at the hotel could be documented this would leave him a little over seven and a half hours to try to Raleigh commit the murder Returned Hills Ville and her as far as wasteful which is totally possible yes tight but possible now. There was additional evidence that was discovered at the hotel and made this scenario even more believable right at about five A._M.. On November third a hotel employee discovered a small red landscaping rock had been placed in the door Jamb at the western emergency exit to prevent that door from closing so he kick the rock out of the door unlatched it closed there was a sign next to the glass door beside the emergency exit door that let guests know that they needed a key card to re enter the hotel through that door between eleven pm and six a m if jason and wanted to avoid using his key card when returning to the hotel after the murder if he thought he would return before six A._M.. Keeping the emergency door exit propped open would've allowed him to return without using his key card another curious curious thing was that the security camera in the Western stairwell just a few feet from that same emergency exit door had been unplugged the last image that camera produced prior to the morning of November third was is at eleven twenty pm on November second that was about twenty minutes after Jason had entered the hotel had entered his hotel room. The camera had been unplugged from then until a hotel employee plugged it back in five fifty A._M.. On November third and less than an hour later the same camera was tampered with again from five fifty A._M. until six thirty four A._M.. It appeared to be functioning properly and produced video footage from the western Western stairwell but at six thirty five A._M.. The camera suddenly began capturing footage of the ceiling. When a hotel employee went to investigate that problem it looked like someone had shut the camera upward toward the ceiling and the employees reposition the camera at that point to face the stairwell and it seemed to work fine from then on you know Jason head returned to the hotel around six thirty five in the morning he could've walked through the glass door without using a keycard push the camera toward the ceiling and taking the stairs to its fourth floor room all this without being filmed if you'd made sure not to let the door to his room lock when he left the night before he could have re entered the room without needing his key card to unlock the door and that way he could get back in without the hotel knowing that he was back in while the hotel investigators confirmed it was possible to make the door to room or twenty-one his room appear to be closed without actually locking it there? We tested that the hotel hosted at this weekend and it is possible it sure is although it's kind of tricky and you have to have a balance Kinda just right you do but I think you could also put tape over the little <hes> Leche thing to be you know technical about it or Kern but the hotel had no record of Jason checking out but that's not uncommon. A lot of guests leave without checking out at the front desk check out receipts were actually slipped under the guests doors between three and five A._M.. A U._S._A. Today newspaper was hung on the outside. He Angelo Beach guests store at the same time. So Jason had returned to the hotel at around six thirty five after driving back from rally both would have been there waiting for him him and he would then have more than thirty minutes to shower shave get his belongings together and drive the twenty seven miles to wife Ville and remember he was late for that appointment. He got lost. That's what he said but there was a problem with this theory to chronologically the I guess receipt found in Jason's explorer was from a station near downtown rally at seven thirty two PM on November second so that would have been shortly shortly after he left his home that evening and the second was from get it mart in Duffield Virginia at twelve oh six P._M.. On November third and investigators didn't find any evidence of fuel purchases in between those two points in time so it wasn't possible for one twenty two point five gallon tank of gas. The size of his explorers gas tank to have lasted Jason the five hundred thirty two miles that he would have had to have travelled between seven thirty two PM A._M.. On November second and twelve six PM on November third if the investigators theory was correct so if investigators were going to prove their theory they had to find a gas station where Jason had refuelled between rallying hills. Bill probably between four and six A._M.. On November third so on Monday November six several sheriff's investigators visited gas stations along the main highway between rallying he'll still they had photos of Jason Listen and photos of his car and they talked to every gas station manager and cashier that they could find who was on duty between four and six A._M.. November third and they found their witness within hours Gracie. Saddam's Bailey was a cashier at the four brothers B._p.. Station on Highway Fifty two in King North Carolina that's just north of Winston Salem and it's about fifty minutes south of the Hampton Inn. She was on duty during the early morning hours of November third when sheriff's investigators asked whether she remembered a man filling up a white S._U._V. early that morning in paying with cash she said yes I certainly did she told investigators a man had pulled his white S._U._V. S._U._v. up to the pump that was farthest from the store and repeatedly tried to get the pump to work when he couldn't he came into the store angry cursed at her for refusing to put the pump on and then through a twenty dollar bill at her went back doc outside while she activated the guest pup and oddly he filled his S._U._v. with only fifteen dollars worth of gas and didn't return for his five dollars in change so as investigators were looking through the stores receipts to confirm this account they discovered one cash purchase of gas at five twenty seven for fifteen dollars and the second of five thirty six for twenty one of these they believed was Jason's and that timing would fit neatly within their working time line which had Jason Tampering with the Hamptons Western security camera about an hour later more importantly of Jason had been purchasing gas in King North Carolina at about five thirty the only logical explanation according to investigators instigators was that he was on his way back to the hotel if to killing Michelle well yeah. There's no other reason why you would be in that area at that time. No he was supposed to be in the hotel asleep. Jason's phone records revealed that in the thirty days leading up to the murder he and Michelle money had exchanged more than four hundred text messages and phone calls and they also established that money was the last person Jason it's spoken with a November second while he was at the Hampton Inn that was approximately fifteen minutes before he appeared at the front desk that second time so those two it exchange more than fifty text messages and calls that very day and Jason was back on the phone with her beginning at seven forty nine A._M.. On November third he was also on the phone with her that afternoon is he was headed toward boulevard at the same time. Linda was trying to contact him to tell him about Michelle staff so there's definitely something going on with those two two fifty text messages in close in one day and that's more than friendship. I'm sorry in this is after they had had their brief sexual encounter right and had decided that nothing could come of relationship while he said that though do they really believe that hurdle thing so I don't either so in November sixteenth the sheriff's investigators went to Florida to interview Michelle money and she immediately confessed that they were having an affair the business meeting that Jason told his wife he was flying to Orlando four on October seven three days before their third wedding. Anniversary was actually get together that he had arranged with her her husband Steve was out of town that weekend so that allowed Jason to come on in have the weekend with her so he stated her home the entire weekend and they had sex also detectives did know about the two million dollar insurance policy Michelle's life why and that Jason was listed as the sole beneficiary if the prospect of recovering on that policy didn't qualify a sufficient motive for him to kill his wife while then his love affair with Michelle money could be the motive and it was probably a combination of the two likely there were some neighbors in the Raleigh neighborhood. They're out driving early. On the morning of November third. One was Terry Tiller and she was a newspaper Person Newspaper newspaper delivery person she said she typically passed by the Young's house between three and four in the morning and she told investigators at their house jumped out at her that morning November third because all the interior and exterior lights were on. She said she also noted late colored medium size S._U._V. Park in front of the House as well as the silver blue van parked directly across the street. She didn't see anyone in or near either vehicle then there was cindy beer lever she lived about ten houses further down virtually drive from the young's and she was a postal worker who had six A._M.. Shift she told investigators that about five twenty in the morning on November third shoes he was in her V._W.. Beetle heading down virtually drive toward the subdivisions entrance she had her brace on despite any deer that might cross the road as she rounded bend in the road. She saw an S._U._v. at the edge of that young's driveway facing the IT's true. She recalled being colour. Yes she said the S._U._V. was edging toward the street with its headlights on win. The beam of her bright lights crossed its windshield. She couldn't make out if the passenger was a man or a woman but she could see see that person's head kind of jerk away from the light and she described the passengers having thick hair possibly like a woman would have more than a man she was able to get a better glimpse of the driver though and she said this was a white male whose the hands were gripping the steering wheel so not super specific normal now plus. This is kind of too late right or the police were theory third time more the Ryan sure another neighbor investigators spoke with was Faye Hintz Louis. This was an energetic elderly woman who lived alone on the street behind the lungs and she had a regular here appointment every Friday morning and was on her way there in approximately six fifteen a._m.. On November third and and that's when she noticed a medium sized Greyish S._U._V. Parked at the end of the driveway and she noticed that the driver's seat was empty so the three accounts only tillers is consistent with the timeline established by the six thirty five five A._M.. Tampering with the Hampton Insecurity Camera so detectives determined that it would have taken Jason at least two hours and twenty five minutes to drive from rally to Hills Ville in those early morning hours and that wouldn't include his stop to refuel based on tillers account Jason could have been on the road back to hills Ville before four A._M.. And her account fit with their working time line but neither beavers nor Hinz lease were consistent assistant with that timeline millage based on his lawyer as advice. Jason refused to discuss the case his whereabouts on the third or his relationship with his wife not even with his friends and family on November eighth. Jason is attorney went to the C. C. B. I. Office in downtown Raleigh to answer a nine testimonial order that the sheriff's Office had obtained to photograph Jason Gather head and pubic hair take fingerprints and footprints and collect samples of saliva and blood for D._N._A.. Analysis the C. C. B.. I was also authorized to obtain his body measurements and to fully inspect his body for any cuts scrapes bruises or abrasions constitutional right against self-incrimination doesn't protect a person from submitting to this examination so routine procedure following a homicide and didn't necessarily mean the chase in the suspect but of course we know he was right so they did inspect and photograph his arms hands and fingers and found not a single scratcher bruise the skin on his face was also clear so investigators had him stripped down and photograph just about every square inch of his body body and the only thing they found was some black bruising underneath the nail of his left big toe. They're also a some minor blistering along the left side of the same foot nearest pinky but beyond that investigators found nothing to indicate that Jason had been involved in a brutal physical attack so this whole circumstantial case makes a lot of sense to me but the fact that they didn't find blood in many places and that he didn't have any injuries even though it seemed like she defended herself. All those things make me question him being convicted for the murder will yeah I mean I suppose he could have wounded her and she she could have some defensive wounds without ever touching him. When he meets she he could've hit defensive hit her hard enough to kind of incapacitated but shoes trying to grab it? The assailant sure he might not have any marks. It's possible I mean he also who knows what he was wearing could been wearing long sleeves gloves knows us but it's still a little strange no blood in the car nothing they didn't find a murder weapon. They didn't find any reliable witness. They didn't find any forensic evidence linking him to the killing and they couldn't explain Cassidy's lose clean appearance when she was discovered Jason and Michele's bed right so those are all strange things although the cleaned up child to me points directly at him people said he cared about his daughter so I think McKee drug the daughter washed her and left her in that bed and then he was frantic to get someone to get over there before she woke up the mix pretty good sense to me it does but I have no concrete proof that that happened mm-hmm so after Machel's funeral Jason's sister heather and her husband Joe had taken cassidy to live in their home with them and Linden Meredith rarely saw her in the spring and summer of two thousand seven Pat Pat Young did facilitate visits with cassidy at the Holiday Inn and provide meredith and Linda would make a five hour trip spend the night at the hotel and see cassidy the following morning in these visits lasted for just an hour to to according to Meredith these visits were extremely supervised by Pat and one of her friends that she brought along and Jason never came along to the visits. Linden Meredith became increasingly frustrated though the lack of progress in this investigation investigation because of course they felt certain that Jason had killed Michelle and they wanted him to go to prison. They were upset that Jason might receive the four million dollars is the sole beneficiary and Michelle's life insurance policy especially when he was a killer found that just awful and though the policy was only for two million it would pay double indemnity because her death was caused by accident rather than illness or disease so her family family Michelle's family filed a wrongful death suit against Jayson in March two thousand nine two years and four months after the homicide the civil court jury found that Jason was responsible for Michelle's death. The jurors awarded the plan of fifteen point five million dollars in damages and is pretty unusual to have the civil case before the criminal case but this civil case against Jason was away for them to get a judgment that would declare him to be Michelle's else killer under something called the slayer statute so not only was Jason going to be stopped from getting the four million dollars in insurance but the proceeds were then redirected to Michelle's lineal descendant of course that's cassidy but Jason didn't answer the civil complaint because anything he would have said could have been used against him in a criminal trial if he ended up being charged with Michelle's murder so the civil judgment was actually made in default with the civil judgment proclaiming that Jason had murdered Michelle Jason had forfeited his constitutionally protected rights as Cassidy's fathers well so a complaint for custody by Linden Meredith's attorney alleged Jason had not behaved raped grieving spouse would since Michelle's murder noting he was still in touch with at least one woman who had had a sexual affair with and was posting pictures of Cassidy on line in an effort to get dates and it also alleged that Jason had cooperated with law enforcement officials investigating Michelle's murder so the custody complaint quoted from the wrongful death judgment that declared Jason had willfully and unlawfully killed Michelle in Meredith in Linda. Ask The court to award them the exclusive care custody and control of the minor child Cassidy Elizabeth Young and also to appoint a qualified physician or psychologist to conduct a psychological avow for the defendant to assist assist court in making a determination so they could get custody or visitation but rather than responding with a visitation schedule. Jason actually agreed to transition cassidy's custody to merita cassidy would span van three to five blocks with meredith each month from February to May then a full week in June than two weeks in July and then beginning August first meredith would just have permanent custody of Cassidy Jason would only we have visitation every other weekend during the school year and four weeks over the summer and you know of course he did this to avoid being deposed. So if I'm innocent I would fight the civil suit and I would fight the custody battle. If you trust the courts to do right by you are after well religious rolled over he did but you know if you do get deposed for that civil case and you say things they can be used against you can but again if he's innocent get the post but it's funny that you say that because you're the one that says don't say anything get a lawyer. Were yeah so I guess his lawyer was telling him not to show up probably not to fight him but it just seems wrong that you're GonNa just give custody of your child. Yeah that doesn't make him look good. Does it doesn't to me now and just eight months. After that civil court verdict he was charged with first degree green martyr so he was arrested in denied fail so either way he wasn't going to be seeing his daughter much was he wasn't going to be so he went on trial in Raleigh and June two thousand eleven and the prosecutor following in his opening statement in which he alleged that the defendant had drugged his daughter on the night of Michelle's murder with tylenol and a prescription sedative put on a pretty strong circumstantial case the defense attorney focused on the lack of physical evidence and the the fact that the prosecution couldn't play Jason at the scene of the murder. The state did not have a confession and I witness or murder weapon now. Jason took the stand in this trial and said that when his wife was murdered he was sleeping in a hotel. Oh one hundred sixty nine miles away. He said he loved his wife. He loved his daughter and he loved the unborn child than a show is carrying yes so June twenty seven two thousand eleven this jury of seven men and five women pulled the judge they were immovably hung on the verdict. They were at six guilty in six not guilty so they were told to return to the jury room and try again but later in the day after deliberating for a total of twelve hours the form and announced that they were deadlocked opt and at that point they had an eight to four vote in favor of acquittal so there was a mistrial the wake county district attorney announced they would try again of course and Jason who've been incarcerated in the wake county jail since his arrest in December two two thousand nine went on trial for a second time and that was in February of two thousand twelve the prosecutor alleged that he had checked into the hills Ville Hampton Inn just before eleven on the night of November second and an hour later he left the building through an emergency exit pract open the door with Iraq to avoid using his computer card key so he could enter the hotel and according to the prosecutor he arrived at his virtually drive home around three in the morning he then drugged his daughter and murdered his wife after cleaning up in disposing of his bloody clothes in the murder weapon he returned to the hotel and got there around seven in the morning. There was some medication found on a shelf in cassidy's bedroom right right but it didn't have Jason's fingerprints on it it didn't it had her D._N._A.. On the bottom of the dropper though is if it was administrated to her by someone yes included among the prosecution witnesses were to daycare occur ploys who said they had seen cassidy you hung acting out her mother's beating grows using doubt and demonstrate the attack and the therapist took the stand and she testified that a week before her death Michelle had come to her for counseling to cope with her unhappy marriage in the therapists opinion Michelle young had been verbally abused by her husband on February twenty ninth two thousand twelve. The defense rested is case this time they did not call Jason to the stand the defense attorney during his final jury presentation pointed out the weaknesses in the prosecution's case talked about reasonable doubt and reminded the jury that being a bad husband did not make his client a murderer so they deliberated for eight hours found him guilty following the trial several of the jurors spoke to reporters and two members said that the lack of physical evidence in the case pointed more to the defendant's guilt than to his innocence so so by that they mean for example what happened to the shirt and shoes he was seen wearing on the hotel surveillance footage the third jer founded incriminating that cassidy had not been murdered and possibly cleaned up after the attack because maybe maybe a stranger would've just killed both of them in why would a stranger clean her up. I think it's GonNa be a person close to cassidy so after the murder conviction Jason's attorney filed an appeal and this was related to the jury jury being improperly prejudiced by the prosecutors mention of the two thousand nine verdict in the wrongful death civil case then in two thousand fourteen North Carolina panel of three appellate judges set set aside the murder conviction and ordered a new trial. There was a fifty eight page opinion and the justices ruled that the prosecutors reference to the wrongful death verdict had diminished the defendants presumption of innocence so he'd been denied a fair trial but in two thousand fifteen the North Carolina Supreme Court reversed the state appeals courts new trial ruling so the conviction stood then in a two thousand seventeen hearing Jason Young appealed field again this time saying that his defense team provided ineffective counsel at the trial that led to his conviction but this appeal was denied as well. You're this for me isn't as clear cut as I would like. I think he did it but I can't say if you ask me beyond a reasonable doubt. I don't think I can say that yeah. It's a tough one I mean this is one of the closest ones we've ever covered where I really am kind of on the fence with it. You're not I think you did it. I think he did it too but did they prove beyond a reasonable. Doubt is the question here. I'm not sure they did a lot of people believe they didn't and that he was falsely imprisoned burke convicted but there's so so many things to him doing it a lot of things very strong circumstantial case which is just as good as the forensic case relates so if you'd like to hear more about this case which is fascinating there are so many details to the time line and this just a lot to it. There are two books that we read the first one is murder on virtually Dr Written by Steven B. Epstein which I think is a pretty objective account of everything lose a little bit towards Jason being guilty but it's not entirely damning then there's also the absence of evidence written by Lynn Blanchard and this one is in defensive Jason and actually seems to point out that maybe meredith did it should definitely fingered meredith she did and I find that really difficult to believe supposedly there is bad blood between the show and meredith but if that's the case why did Michelle ask you to be her. Nanny well L. in bad blood. Between Sisters is a far cry from murder right right and there's some stuff that she presented in the book that I wasn't sure was correct. Yeah there were some things that related hash out Termi but the both excellent books to read absolutely fascinating really fascinating recommended this case to us. We're talking about that. I WanNa say thank you to Barbara from North Carolina who recommended this case great glad that she did while I'm thanking people let me also thank Jennifer who was the lady who recommended the Kristin Rossum story heart and stop or yeah so thank you ladies. Those are two who great cases so let's also think tristen Tristen Capelle for our music is he did a great job on that and team tigers still on hold this week but we're getting there aren't we. We are are thank. You have a small stroke doc every day that goes by then. It's not here. It's almost here. It's driving me a little crazy but I would. I would venture to say within a week. Nothing promise that but I think within a week things might be up and running the way that I want them to be some really excited. Sided about that I did put out a picture on our true crime brewery fan discussions page of what our new homepage is GonNa look like with a little. Thank you everyone for being so patient so if you're a part of that group you might want to check that out because this new a website is going to be a lot easier to use the membership is going to be awesome and we've got a lot of content in mind so it is exciting for me so one thing I would ask if you have a few minutes to spare we would greatly appreciate it if you could leave a review for us on itunes or wherever you listen more positive reviews help more people to find our podcast which is great so I think we'll move onto feedback now unless you have anything else to add. Don't okay so if you'd like the voice mail played on a future show. Just go to Tigra DOT COM and click on leave a voicemail. We would love to hear your comments on cases. We've covered or suggestions for cases that you think we should cover also. If you don't WanNa leave the voice mail you can send us an email to true crime berea Tigr ever dot com or send us a message on facebook instagram or twitter another thing you can do which I just mentioned his are True Crime Berry Fan discussions page and joining that you could chat with other listeners about past cases case suggestions in even just current news in the true crime genre. It's kind of a place to be like minded people absolutely so we're going to get into feed need that can before we actually get into the start of it. We had one voice mail voice message from Kathy in Belfast Ireland with a case suggestion and I could not for the life of me understand in the name of the case that she was suggesting and Kathy didn't leave <hes> email address. I didn't have any way of getting hold of her so Kathy from Belfast. If you're listening to this one please either email manly or resend a voicemail and I'll get onto it because the case sounded interesting and you try but you just couldn't find the person's name you were looking at. All kinds of variation couldn't fill it okay so those are I voice now. We're playing today. I won his Phil. We're doing some international. voicemails fills from Australia awesome from Brisbane did I did I did this is Phil from Brisbane in Australia. Let me stop assigning love your work. Thank you so much. I just listened to your most recent offering the mood of Greg Davila's the hand of his wife Kristin Rossum. Just WanNa draw your attention to an interesting tie in between this case and Australian case you presents a while back the murder of Alison Biden Cli- by her husband jared s not affected by Kristin and Alison studied ballet as youngsters or that they were in equites perfectionists. It's not the Kristen Allison's husband Jared Biden Klay by involved in extramarital affairs and wanted out of their marriages in order to be with their loves. Now the common link is Dr Michael Robertson Kristen's boss and lover long after Kristen in had been convicted of the two thousand murder of Greek Davila's Doctor Robertson Australian appeared as the seventieth witness in the July two thousand fourteen trial of a grade loser Jared Biden Klay as an expert forensic toxicologist Dr Robertson gave evidence for the defense regarding what he said were elevated levels of the antidepressant circling in Allison System Assad Cau- trust Virginia's defense team argued that high levels of central and could lead to suicidal automation. This was obviously Lia ploy to plant a seed of doubt in the mind of the jury that is that Allison took around life. Perhaps deep you can comment further about the Asano nothing pharmacology but the thing is drugs they legal or illegal are another common common feature between the two cases but in the end the most important commonality is that both juries got it right and fan stupid Bitch Kristin Rossum and scumbag jared Biden Cli- guilty of murder so that's it for me in Brisbane or as we call it Rizzi pretty tight schedule in Dick and please keep those awesome cases coming wow well thanks Phil. I thought you'd like that comment. I really enjoyed it. I always enjoy the accent but I also enjoyed the connections he made he puts thought that definitely did now in regard to his comment about the search ruling so we we do know that certain antidepressants can increase your risk of suicide but there isn't any evidence that correlates blood levels with that risk independent of that so you could have a very low level of search ruling and kill yourself and you can have a very high level and I consider suicide so that doesn't help and didn't sound like it swayed the jury at all anyway now but I find it interesting. That Robertson was his name Michael Roberts Michael Robertson actually probably took part in a murder had something to do with the murder of Christine ransoms. Soms has been but then he testified to well to kind of defend another murderer right right so that's interesting to while the interesting thing to me is that he had a position at all after right after what happened with Kristen and he kind of left his job in San Diego in disgracing moved back to Australia and apparently managed to find a job. I don't think his job was as high up as it had been while he's still testified. God Yeah Director of some toxicology unit true yeah but yeah I would've thought careerwise he'd be poisoned. Well I mean what did they really prove. He did just that he had knowledge of her taking drugs as is director of that laboratory. He knew that she was taking drugs and did nothing about that. She was really good bed so well. The explains it of course right anyway great voicemail. Yes yes S. and next we're GONNA have Jenny from England. WHO's GonNa give us a comment on the grady case and also comment on the Peterson case in terms of the owl theory your favorite Kyrie? It's one of my favorite cases to talk about High Jilin date. This is Jenny from New Castle in England and sappy wanting to leave a voicemail fall while love the podcast in Olot Ah so this week's episode which was about this disappearance suggest grady so just though a day Talia over in the U._k.. Just passed a new law this week effect Cold Helen Zoll so that's named after Helen McColl his disappeared in nineteen eighty on the way home from work so gyco Ian Simms was convicted by jury based on overwhelmed D._N._A.. Evidence so he's been imprisoned for obviously a lot yes and but he's never end said Web. Arinda ravines aw so hey mom paint basically fall like a number yeah's and this new law which is coming in means that anybody who's convicted amid in like no forty minute of like Jessica Green and if they refused to disclose rather victim's body is now means. They're not going to be eligible for parole. The Parole Board contained in consideration so obviously that's really good sing because for the victims families and stuff it must just make it like even worse when by the all so I just WanNa tell you about that. One of you got similar things in the states because see whereas systems of different anyway. I wanted to ask you whether you've read anymore. Might Appear Essen case end the OWL. We'll see me so I was a bit obsessive so what should be twice and David Rudolph Kim you can't he did like speaking to so I went to see him at Newcastle Enam Busy Alec ended up changed me mind about it. I was really convinced. Initially Michael Piazza not kill them all. I don't know if I've just been duped. David Rudolph's very reasonable real smooth toll Aaron had a good sense of humour he liked him and face the main points way the found like eh obviously extra evidence in the trial like blood on the staff as a hey things I is a presentation on David Rudolph's website and it's called owl theory so while I'd love it if you would like have read of it and then maybe have a little chat about in and see what you think and when you do your comments base Rudolph said he was confident that could have had a retrial would have been found not guilty but Mike Oh Pearson did one because he basically don't time anyway with the all Fudd play so there was nightmare nope pint and he saw the people thought he was guilty anyway than this still would even if he got let off on a technicality. Ill you know a lack of who will evidence so he just felt it was no pints and the pound me. David Rudolph said he would have liked to retrial l.. Despise equal really said no lawyer wants to to lose and such a span message me what you think so yet if you could I have a look at that and maybe have a little chart a look forward to hearing Arrhenius your thoughts on it and keep mate in the podcast and everything has a limit and that's it goodbye. Well thanks Jenny. I love that accent. She reminds me of Adel so I don't think that we have a lot like like that in the U._S.. About <hes> the nobody case not that I really liked it. It's a good idea. Isn't it yeah although we're more harsh with our sentences so most of these cases is little or no possibility of parole so you don't have too much of a inducement to divulge the location of the body true. That's true but I do think it's a great idea and then the Michael Peterson case so that is like one of the first cases we ever did and I watched that documentary commentary probably five or six times by the time I went through each thing and I can kind of see where I might have been duped a little too because <hes> Michael Peterson's children just charmed the hell Outta me and Rudolf was very smooth talker and Michael Peterson seemed like a nice guy to me plus the documentary that I watched so much was on the side of the defense so Ho- sure there you go so you went to the website I know so. Why don't you tell us a little bit about what you think in what you read well? It doesn't help too much. I mean it. It's fascinating the AL theory is I still find it a little difficult to buy but here's the way David Rudolph looks at it. He said that the cause of death was UH. She bled out so it wasn't from blunt force trauma to her brain not a fractured skull. She was strangled just bloodless and apparently from the scalp injuries couple of them look like talent marks so here's the circumstantial evidence that supports the AL theory als were living in the woods by the Peterson House in fact they think when one of their neighbors had been attacked by now yes I think someone a couple blocks away and the news a breed of alcohol Barrett als- they're aggressive and they can be dangerous and they've been known to attack people so we're going to say maybe it's a Barrett Al Roberto their drops of blood on the outside walkway way leading to the front door of the House and there is a large smear blood on the outside of the front door. Both of these are shown in police photos and in at least two of the wounds is what you're bringing up Joe we to the wounds on her scalp. Were in the shape of the talents of the Dow and you can see that on the autopsy photos there were also some tiny wounds on Mrs Petersen's face that could be consistent with a tip of anals beak. They found a feather on her body found a twig in dry blood on her body. So those are the circumstantial things that suggest the AL attack in. I guess I wasn't totally convinced that he had a motive to kill her. Well your air you get into that whole homosexual stuff but he hadn't hadn't actually had an affair with anywhere if he'd been having sex with men someone would come forward and all they could find was the guy he was talking about it with her. I know yeah anyway yeah. That's a that's a fascinating case. We've talked about third for three years. Yes we're GONNA talk about it for at least another three years. Probably what would he took the Alford plea. I know that I kind of understood that because he's getting older and what if he did get convicted and and like Jenny was saying people are GonNa think he's guilty if they think he's guilty anyway so at his age. What does it matter really if he has that on his record or he's you know maybe he'd rather be out and spend time with his family because they believe C._B._S.? Grandchildren at this point or your yeah her. We've got some emails. First one is from Ghana has a case suggestion all right Donna writes. I'm writing to you in hopes that you might talk about the murder of Bill McGuire by his wife Melanie Melanie his body washed up on the Chesapeake Bay in two suitcases. I had worked with bill for a year and he was not married. At the time this was a brutal murder. She was a nurse and she dismembered him. It said murder that took place in a New Jersey I love beer but only stout in hoarders. That's hardcore. She is not hard core stout supporters. That's hardcore so cheer. Stick Sorry Jill No. I._P._A.'s Stoute's importers. There's all right. So what do we know about this case well. Basically she said it's fascinating and we've got a lot of information so I think it'd be a good win at present but yeah she she killed him dismembered him pack them in suitcases in Tustin him in the Chesapeake Bay and that's pretty unusual for women to do that. That's why it interested me and a nurse nurses. Nurses are not all good but I mean it's not that easy to dismember body now. No it's just horrific to right yeah. I don't know how anyone could ever do that. Okay but good suggestion. Thanks Donna here. We've got that one and then emily has a case suggestion comment. She has two things she's double duty here. Emily's says she is just listening to another podcast which casually mentioned the family violator John List who murdered his wife mother and three kids in nineteen seventy one he covered his tracks so well canceling milk deliveries tailings kids school. They're going to be away and so on who is a whole month before anyone even realized something was wrong. When they finally discovered his family they were all dead he had left religious music playing in the house and he cut himself what every single family photo and isn't it yes so by the time the police even knew a crime had been committed? He was long gone and the ended up assuming the name of a university classmate and living a new life <music> somewhere else hit even remarried giving us of another chance at life after denying one for his family he was only eighteen years after doing this when a neighbor recognized him from an episode of America's most wanted did I cannot believe how Greece this man's crimes were how he so brazenly took the lives of his entire family for financial reasons and because he felt there a string from God and at the same time he was so narcissistic as to Nazi his own on crime through it they were so that's the case and we're going to do that started doing some research and I think we're going to put it out. As a bonus episode in August grains your plant share everything should be up and running for the members number script by that and that's a good one to come back in and Goodwin elitists off. Emily listened Darbyshire England so her comment is thanks for the episode you did about the horrible case of Nick Philpot who is the most sensitive and compassionate it retailing of the case I've ever heard and living in the area. I've heard it a lot tabloids in the U._k.. Loved to imply people and benefits just evil scroungers sponging state in the hardworking majority the fact that you didn't equate having lots of children living on state benefits with being a bad person or murder was refreshing. Well thank you nice compliment. I just don't like to judge people because I'm far from perfect myself. You know I think we've learned in someone else's shoes. It's a whole different story and I think you should get older. You realize that more to have a little more empathy for people and what they've got through yes yeah absolutely and then finally Alana who has accused suggestion okay in her case suggestion is about the mcstay family. This is something I've heard about before and Alana wrote I. I saw this case on disappeared on I._D.. Some years ago mother and Father Summer and Joseph with mixed day and their two sons Johnny enjoy junior age foreign three disappeared February fourth two thousand ten there was a mix up so it took over five days to realize they were missing their two dogs were being fed and watered so it was thought by family in France that they were away on day trips as they wouldn't abandon their animals when a note was left by the dog bulls it was revealed that animal rescue is feeding them and the search was on the mcstay's had just bought the home awaiting furniture delivery after painting was to be completed. Joseph had a thriving fountain creation business with one million dollars of orders on the books and one hundred thousand dollars in the bank and this account was never accessed after they went missing another misdirection was agreed video of a family walking across the border to Mexico at night. Some family thought it might be them some weren't sure and some said definitely not some were adamant that some are never wanted to go go to Mexico and Joseph didn't have business or suppliers from there and why would they bring young children to Mexico after dark on foot the investigators allowed family to go into the house in clean up without a proper forensic sweet even though a bowl of popcorn on the futon an open carton of eggs on the kitchen counter and other signs strongly suggested a family that was suddenly and abruptly interrupted dateline another programs ran updates on where the mixed days when I listened to the interview with Chase Merritt the Welder for Joseph's fountains suspicions abound he's made claims about summer that can't be verified trying to poison Joseph being unfaithful to him and and did actually call her a bitch lots of red flags went up for me made her look terrible. He gets to tell the story so it was clear to me after all this time the family wasn't coming back. They were deceased looks like the author of a book about this no goodbyes by Rick Baker Consulted Chase Merritt about summer as he maligned her repeatedly and tried to soil her reputation. He's not much of an investigative reporter and I was disgusted with his book. I'm sure investigators. Gators were watching merit carefully in his interviews as he does reveal a lot about himself and his possible role in this it had come out. That summer didn't like him in his interview he shows a bland exterior but something is seething behind his is <music>. In November. Two thousand thirteen almost four years later a motorcyclist came across two shallow graves in the Mojave desert outside of Victorville California and this is where Chase Merritt sister lives the voice in a separate grave from the parents one last hostile violent nasty gesture by a monster who won't even allow them to be buried together. I think he controlled the parents through the children but I do wonder who he killed. I most likely the parents but I can imagine him killing the children I just to further torment the parents it's also surmised that the children wouldn't survive as they would recognize him. He could have planned it just to take the parents when the children were elsewhere aware but I think his rage and darkness overcame him Chase Merritt has been charged with the murders turns out. He has a felony past Joseph was getting complaints about the quality of his work deteriorating he had to reimburse a a couple of clients and Joseph's father was aware of this in even though he didn't suspect Meredith I he was able to fill in some background information on the business relationship merit also Joseph money. Perhaps it's premature mature to cover this case until the trial of Chase Merritt is over it began in the spring of two thousand nineteen not sure how much longer it will take so this kind of Longish but I learned a lot from that because I didn't know any of this most recent stuff. I knew they were missing. I think I was vaguely aware they'd been found. That's about all I knew for sounded like a good enough case that we'd like to do it but I would wanna wait till the completion of the trial all right so let's just keep it on the list and keep keep an eye on it. I'm GonNa do that well. Thank you everyone for your feedback. The feedback is my favorite part of doing an episode of Drew Crime Burry People. Just come out with some great stuff. Don't they yeah they do all right so we done anything else now. I think there's one more bottle of that pie time so I'll split it with you. Yes it is delicious isn't it. It's so good all right the next week everybody for listening and we'll see you next week at the quiet end bye right <music>.