LIVE From Mexico: More Than a Passage Route
We are standing right in the heart of Mexico City where I was born. And you know, I'm I'm so so we're not we're not in Harlem. No, we're not. We're we're definitely not. We're in the place where I was born. And you know, every time I come back here. I'm like, oh my God. I love this place. Even though I do experience a little bit of like, but you're not from this place. But you know, who? Something that's been that I've been going through while I've been here on this trip. If I've been hanging around with a lot of Mexicans in the heart of Mexico City, and we're speaking English together. Well, and you know, why because they have been deported and they've found their way to Mexico City or they were from here or because they have voluntarily left because they just for whatever reason to be reunited with family. So that's pretty cool to be with a bunch of Mexicans in Mexico City, speaking English and not feeling ashamed. That's true. And we actually we did some amazing recordings at the UC, California Mexico City, and it's funny, you bring up this whole notion of talking to Mexicans you you've been covering this. You'd be you've been doing reporting for Latino USA about Mexicans that have come back because of the immigration system, and we actually had a conversation about that. As to like, how is immigration being viewed in Mexico, not only with Mexicans that have been deported for United States, but just in general sort of bigger topic going on and immigration. And it was I know that's like up your alley as they say. Yeah. Because front and center on many Mexicans minds is actually what is happening with the caravan. That has been extraordinarily blown out of proportion across the board in both countries, Mexico and the United States. So we're going to be talking about how Mexicans are seeing this caravan. Yeah. So we're not also talk about not. Only how the caravans being viewed, but sort of immigration in general, how does the Mexican government treat migrants refugee status a lot of questions that a lot of people been asking during this whole caravan thing because they're always like what is in Mexico take them in. Why does it have to be the United States, and it's so complex money? Yeah. It's also a very emotional topic. And so we did a live recording. Can I like intro it like they're doing it out here? Like, these these voices ready? Okay. Ready? In the thick recording starting now. Let's listen. Let's listen. Two of the big we are doing a live show from last you that Mexico Mexico City, my whole side, Julio Rica, lavar era, we're recording the amazing Gaza that I only see that -fornia here in the capital may. So those of you who listen to in the thick know that we talk a lot about the issue of immigration and migration YoM we're gonna talk about it differently on this edition because we're gonna talk about this through the eyes of may he go and people who live in Mexico. So joining us on stage illness, Don, she's an immigration researcher and coordinator of the Linda and collective say. Welcome to come on up, give up picking around applause. And also joining us is Maggie. She is from otros dreams and all that also Chawla house. Welcome to this stage. Georgia house house. And we are so excited because that's how we roll on in the thick in Mexico City where we are coming back where sure we gotta do this again because we just love transfer this audience, we love our Mexico City on its, and we also love the fact that we have live illustrations. Her name is mighty Malta. She's a super talented illustrator. Mighty Lawrence O contain us by Motaung. She's going to be life illustrating the conversation. So give it up. Give it up. We're gonna share her wonderful art on social media in the thick show down the road. But give it up. Thank you. Thank you my. So, you know, what's interesting who you're is that I got here to Mexico City a couple of days ago because we are reporting for let the USA we're doing a story about the reality of people who have been deported and what's happening to their lives here. And when I stopped people on the street to say in Spanish kid. Yes. In the ninety s you the other Gary recital? They would immediately say, well, you know, they're decent people. And I know that they're just looking for work. And I know that they don't really plan on staying here. And I would be like, oh, you think I'm asking you about the migrant caravan asking you about people who have been deported or compromise dates back and for them. It was like a they conflicted the two things the truth is is that Mexico right now is dealing with the reality that there are about seven thousand seven thousand five hundred people who have come from on Dudas searching for refuge in the United States. Of course, Trump is saying all kinds of insane crazy wacky probably tweeting something right now that he's just don't pay attention anymore. He's just an American president who's insane. Sadly, especially on the immigration being in Mexico. Oh, the future foreign minister of Mexico, but he said that these people have to be stopped, but unless Monroe locus over on the other hand the future president is saying possible work visas, so it's a little bit strange. There's also been a kind of nationalism coming up in Mexico and at the same time a lot of beautiful effort protests where I attended a protest a small gathering in front of the American embassy of just yesterday. Right. And then the the history of Latin thrown as people that like give charitable work. That that are trying to help migrants with the journey. That's also happening and there have been beautiful images of Mexican people making food for migrants, you just making sure that they're okay. So you've been working on these immigration issues for years in the context of right now with the caravan or just in general under the Trump administration. And may he go and changing to new president? What's the pulse here in Mexico right now actally lake this caravan is just like the reflects of reality what happened every day? So we see even more because of the carbon and because of Trump and all these condo. But the reality we are at transit country. We also export migrants. And we also have mine runs at that returning even more every day. No. So what I think is very important to know is like Mexico is acting berry different as we'll always do. We work a lot with the United States. And I think that they want us to. Like dirty work new, especially try and think I'm sure he wanted that ever happened before. No, I think that happens as financially, but what what is very different now that we're not even giving them like transit visa that we used to to give that because these people wants to go to the states, not to Mexico some of them, maybe want to stay in Mexico. The most of them want to go to the states, and we have now these messages from the government that are very Ruth that are also kind of racist. Even with Pannonia though. What have you heard? When you say give us an example of something that has been said, the president said like a couple of days ago that all the Magritte that we found with that our legal. We're going to return them back, and he used the term illegal. Yes, he yes. He also that we yes, it is. And also something that is very dangerous is there is a survey that's been published yesterday on fifty percents of our population are with my runs or we the chairman and the other fifty percent more or less our game against and if you ask about the bee's work, they are more people against than with the mainland. So I think they think that can happen to Mexico on Mexicans are that we became Trump eastern. Our I don't know how to say. You're saying that you think and people who are like, yeah. Let's send them all back. Let's. The central time done they are, and we are criminalizing people. And if you'll see and if you hear the life of those people's on these very dangerous something more than your city in the world. So they have running third their lives, and they are running because of poverty and a lot of things even with little children. So I think it's important one of the things that I've been saying is called the fuck down everybody because you know, there are millions of people in Central America, and there are seven thousand who are asking for refuge. So it's it's not, you know, tens of thousands so calm down. But you know, what Maggie struck by something that illness, which is Mexico in this moment is a country that is dealing with migration and immigrants in a way that is very real whether they're coming from the south whether they're being returned whether they're coming seeking refuge when he said a migrant country might internal migration. Didn't they leave? What Hawkeye that comes from the city or and you yourself are part of this story. So just briefly what's your story? And how do you feel as kind of being part of the Mexican migrant story as well as the American story of immigration. Yes. Mexico definitely has become into a bottleneck. I mean, I think there is migration. I mean, there's always been migration in the world. I mean, human mobility, it something that has always been there. But in terms of Mexico. I mean, I think that yes, it's becoming a chaos and as where not coordinating, and we're not organizing to be able to respond and come up with a frantic moon. I think that's very important. We're not standing up to the situation and as former undocumented I was taken to the US when I was two years old grew up in Texas. Enjoy JAL my life, and I came back ten years ago. Voluntarily or as I always say, I was forced to return the end of the day because it was a system that after the age of eighteen and after beliving doubt, I was part of that system told me, you know, what you're you don't belong here. And you're gonna lose all those rights and everything that you said every day in the pledge of allegiance, it doesn't apply to you anymore. I actually want to stop you on that. Because when I interviewed you Maggie, you kind of said that over and over again, and I just wanna take a moment because people forget that in in the United States, especially in the south because in New York, they don't say they don't play like them allegiance. They. Not New York. But you're in Dallas, and where people. Yeah. So you say that every day used it up and you pledge to the American flag. And then all of a sudden, I mean, you realise the implications of being undocumented of just realising what that really means. A mean before high school, it really didn't mean anything to me? I didn't even know. I mean, it wasn't something we talked over dinner in my family. But when you're about to turn eighteen and you want to access all the rights that your friends are axing to and you realize that you can I think that's when many of us when friends the reality of being in the United States in documented, and we have to make decisions. And I think that's the only option that I had. And I think that's what I did. But coming to Mexico now as a former undocumented, I say this because now I'm in the other position now where I'm whatever that means citizen of Mexico, and I have whatever that means citizenship in documents. And now seeing the other side of the coin of. How people migrating through Mexico are treated and all the racism that exists in this country isn't saying I mean yesterday at the protests after we walked from the US embassy to sick at that. Is a guy just ripped are signed that said no borders and just went off yelling like I'm going to save my Mexico. This is my Mexico. And I was like what am I seeing? And did anybody captured buddy went after that guy? He like he wanted his five minutes of fame. I think but it was insane. Just seeing a little Trump. They're just saying this. You know, what's amazing about this? And I just I'm just freaking out. You know, what's amazing about that notion, especially when it comes to Pinon when Trump said what he said about Mexicans to start his campaign that basically started all this calling them, rapists and criminals and to see like the national leader right now where embedded if and did that equal paper, just put the politics aside, just defend Mexicans with respect. And and here you have. Now this Mexican president. Who was like, yeah, we're going to do the work for you. You give us a money. Where's the seeking? Joe? Wait, wait. So you're basically and bake it been yet though is doing his job search by playing no no serious eating. But but but you're kind of not too. Yes. I well just today. I was in an interview also that Trump guy he he was saying Mexico for Mexicans and he was really really racist. All the words he was saying that interview with me he was like Trump. No, he was saying we have to protect Mexico, and we don't know what these people want. They don't even work to go. Basically. I mean, we kind of people. Also I've spoken about Mexican nationalism. It is problematic and Mexican racism and Mexican anti-semitism and Mexican. So yes, but to be kind of experiencing the rise of nationalism on an international scale, you have Trump who basically just declared that he's a nationalist. We're hearing this talk in Mexico. So it is a little bit provoking a little bit of sweat on my upper brow. I want to describe something else. That's been happening for me, though. I've been reporting this. So as you know, I was born in Mexico City not far from here in a day. I was raised in Chicago and live in New York now, and whenever I would come back to may he every year, I was always made fun of me spring most medicine porch. -greeing indeed. All of these words for being an American Girl. And so, and I didn't like to speak English when I was here in Mexico. So now all these many years, I'm sitting around, you know, like in places like where you're is or hanging out in on the street where deported people. I'm not sure what the word is formerly Americans inside, those whatever it is. And we're all hanging out speaking English English, Nick industry of Mexico, and we're just like your would like we're the we looked Mexican. And we're speaking English what I'm having a little bit of a moment. Maggie helped me to understand. Because unlike well, this is cool. But you know, the other thing that I'm feeling that. I'm really deeply sad. Also, like, this adn is of feeling Meese broke by saddles Mahyco Americans. Right. Who are longing for places like Davenport, Iowa who are longing for places like at Lanta, Georgia or. Small towns in Maryland. They are longing. They're here in Mexico's home home for them. And they are longing to be back in Michigan. Yes, I think I mean anywhere. You are forced to be a mean, definitely you're not going to be completely happy in a place where you're literally we're living in exile. Our community are deported and returned community is living in exile from their communities from their families from their neighborhoods, and I think also being here in Mexico and being part of this sort of discrimination world aware. Yes, if you look Mexican, you're speaking almost a perfect English. Why why if you're not sort of white part of the elite speaking perfect English? Maybe that's a -ceptable. But when you're part of or or it looks like you're part of a working class family. Then people can judge you and say, well, if you have the no pollen frontier, why are you speaking English? I mean is it because you just wanna show off is that because you wanna talk and you don't want anybody else. To understand you. And you're talking about band. I mean, they don't understand that. It's part of who we are in speaking spangled, fish English or me, hey, and house. I mean, that's a place where everybody can speak whatever fucking language they want. In this big instructions. Yeah. I love that. But yeah, I think that's just part of what we live every day, and it's important to to just name it and say it, and I think a growing community of people that are speaking different languages, and specially Spangler sure English Spanish being Battino. In excel in what does that really mean in ID exile? Yo that's a new money in a host. Host. Wrong. She's writing down. Don't worry. We'll take care of you on that one. But I think right. And I think I do see examples like maggie's like in the work that you do like what's going on? How are people in your experience treating people that have come back from the United States? I think that we have a lot of people that have been deported since two thousand seven, but it's something that have been seen just when Trump came here, quite I seen is people like my known and also even worse with children because they are shielding didn't speak Spanish, very will non-speak sponge, very will. They have bullying their schools. And so they are suffering quite their parents tougher maybe in the states when they out from Mexico, and also I think that sometimes a lot of times Mexicans don't understand who are were migrants and their story and everything they have passed by. And so we are not empathic a lot of times even police all the police. That we have for my run people or for departed, people are not very impassive. We than understand what they need, for example in Marshall. Now seeing all that mental health is the first thing someone can combine the need because they are separating them from their families. So I think that we don't understand that also people if they are because all their families are on the other side. So this is binding families. This is the thing that I was sharing with Julio. Yeah. When I come back to Mexico City where I was born. I'm like I and all my memories, and I'm like, and I know that I'm gonna be here for a week or two doses. I'm so happy, and I'm eating everything, you know, every twenty nine just being happy. I'm taking pictures on documenting everything on Instagram and my kids are like stop kinda. I'm kinda getting to the stop to Graham crazy. All right. Sorry. You know, Douglas, but out of those eating everything jura's look. But what happened to me on this trip? Maggie, and is that I have now realized that there are many of Meese compatriotes missed by San Nause as who are not happy to be here. The are deeply sad. I have been with men who are crying in the middle of the day men who were business owners in the United States, and who now are rudderless one of them who's here tonight, actually said. You know, I don't fit here anymore. I just don't fit and this notion of mental health the Mexican government is saying that they're doing things Maggie, no note, definitely not. I think part of what it's very important. And when he said touched on it is that the policies that are being made in that are on the table are lacking the presence of people that have been directly affected in. That's I mean, more than the sad story that yes, it's like fucked up but more than that. I think we also have to be present in those spaces where not only in migration deportation. I mean, but any movement we know what we need. We know our experiences, we know that a policy besides responding to something also needs to knowledge the experience that we had behind us and what's going to happen now after being deported or returned. It also needs to you can't integrator rain to great someone because then you're assuming that. Yes. All the experience in the US will just be deleted. And then you're in Mexico and deal with it. And now start from the beginning when the reality is that no that I have an entire experience behind, and if that's not being acknowledged ring policy-making, then it's going to be wrong. And it's not going to have a mean, besides we know we're in Mexico, and there's a lot of bureaucracy corruption impunity, and whatever those policies don't have sort of follow up. Do not have an evaluation to see if they are actually functional or not. I mean, there's a lot to be working on. But I do think, and that's why butcher housing or they exist because it's a platform that gives voices two people that we have been directly impacted by it, and we want to be in the front magazine, bad ass. No. She is just so. Anytime but just a couple of smell. To give it a little context. And in two thousand eighteen in the first five months, right? According to Mexico's interior ministry and estimated over ninety thousand Mexicans have been deported just this year, and that's up from around sixty three thousand in the same time period last year, right? There's one hundred fifty thousand people, and then if you had all the people that were forced to return all the people that came with their deported family members that they're not counted. And all the people that signed voluntary departure, which is the same bullshit as deportation. That's not being counted either. Right. So so that's a conservative number. And I think you you brought up the point Maggie about reintegration. And I just want to ask you only say about this program in two thousand fourteen president created so almost make gunwales the program, and you're kind of touching on this. We want to hear what he has to say about it sort of this social and economic reintegration of repatriated Mexicans that come back. And I remember there was a lot of like. Local awareness in the United States. If you went to the consulate's there was a big push by the government of Mexico, not only in Mexico, but also in places like Los Angeles, your Dallas, Houston, where there was a lot of big Mexican population magazines. They're not doing anything. What's the holdup? What do you think? I think that we make these program of some of the heat canal's because of Trump we already have this program. But this was anything so eat recreate they say off or. Rebranded reorganize with the same brand. But they are real. And is that because of Trump so even legislators and all the everybody like these subjects of my runs because of Trump to after Trump. Mine runs, but we have already my rent's. No. And also all the protests. We've like two hundred thousand maybe. No meeting. I'm here. And deputies every year two thousand seven so he said a reality that we have already been with our police. I think that there are lacking of what Maggie already plane, but also of an more impotent, Sean. Sean like, we have to understand that people that came back from the states. They are people that have been fertile years. They're going to very difficult to being in Mexico again because they don't have been family here. They don't have anything they feel like an stranger. You have people that have been out for one year or half of year or three they have children or not. And I think that something that's have shamed. With Trump is like we have a lot of liberties with Obama also. And we bought the difference is the profile. Now, we have people that have been leaving the states for mortgages. So they have more family marched hurry there. And it's very difficult. Renta great these people and with the policies we have a now it's almost impossible because we are not feeling people like people Jost policies like that. I take the policy for everything and I connected with Marins. And I think we also need to ask ourselves. Like, why is the migration institute in Mexico in charge of repatriate? People are deported people. Like, they're the ones that are trying to prevent all those seven thousand migrants to cross through Mexico. Why are they the people in charge while my mind just win? In charge leaving all the might Americans from Europe. Or so that's of like what your point your point. Maggie is like they're in charge of both the people they wanna get out and the people they want to bring in supposedly. So I gotta tell you begin to feel a little desperate because the things that you are talking about that's happening right here in Mexico is replicating the language the armor, the attack that has been instigated by the United States, the labeling of people legal. It didn't begin in the United States. I mean, some would say it began. Well who knows but certainly the Nazis were using that in terms of the Jewish people. But it feels like such a worldwide phenomenon talk me down Maggie. There's hope there's activism. I mean, I'm very inspired by you, you created a beautiful space. I was there in central central sensory story. Just like a beautiful space open window. It's an art space collective safe-space. So I'm like, you know, the women here about as of course, women are making things happen. The talk down Maggie 'cause I'm feeling a little defeated. Well, I think we don't have a choice but to stick together but to organize but to strategize together as a community in porch house, which is as as Moore. Yes. At a safe space that just by accepting is already making a point of a community that as I said, it's living in exile. But it's also a space for other people that want to really get to know the community that really wants to get to know who are the deported and return people, I think it's important for people to see the diversity end in porch houses that is a place where people come who have recently been deported or recently had to return or people that have been here for eight years six years, and they're still going through a process. I think we need to understand that you don't stop being a deportee in year. Like, you go through a process that depending on the diversity and the needs that you have as an individual and as part of a family in this part of a community. It's a process that you. Don't have the right to say, okay. You're going to get over it in three years. No. Because it's something very personal importer house is that say space where people that relate to us can just go and feel identified and talk to others, but also we can organize. We can argue we can criticize we have to go through a process of formation because when I got here, I didn't know ninety nine percent of the things that I know because now I see that US bubble from another perspective. I see it from being in Mexico and being part of all the situations that are going on in here. And I want to be part of what's happening in Mexico wanna be part of the Batta social movements that are already in Mexico and also bring together what I learned and what my community learned in the US to fight for for Mexico that needs transformation, and that has many structural problems that I think that more than seeing us as a testimony or as a sad story. I think it has to be seen as an entire community that is organizing and that is putting out there. A lot of structural problems 'em. You just got a finger snap from. Okay. Talk me down. I feel. That's a bit better. And then I'm going to have some tacos tutors to. When you say I wanna start looking at this from Mexico as the migrant country, and what does that mean? And I think one thing is sort of like how Mexicans are dealing with migration both from the south and from the north because it's a different type of migration it's forced it's imposed and this whole notion of Mexico becoming a host country for central Americans this Mexico ready for that. Well, I think that Mexico is not ready for all that my wants to come here. But the thing is that for example, the caravanners a lot of these people are refugees not of them are running from violence. And also we have been talking about migration of because they came out of the because of poverty, marination and all those terrible things. But I think that Beilin is something very very important now like pool factor on Mexico. For example, the United States wants Mexico to the third. Sure country don't know how to say in English. Vice versa. The third secure country means that all the refugees are Eluned that the United States wants to give they come. Refugee people like you take them. Yes. We have to him. So what Trump is doing? Now is doing that. In fact, so he's not unofficial think now because is very difficult. Mexico is not a sure country first of all and second of all we are not ready to have all these people here. But that doesn't mean that you cannot do something, for example, with that five thousand people haven't how some people we have solidarity. We are people of solidarity, even this sepia society. So we can do we can deal with that. When I hear like the governor of some states on the northern in Mexico. Like, no, we can do anything we have morning, and we I think that bullshit because we can do something with five thousand people and another thing we have to see reality. The reality is migration is an international not the real thing. Now in something that is happening. So we have to deal with that. And what we have to. All these money. We're wasting with with all the police in the border and all the things you need in terms of resources to let that enforcement you can use these money in social economic development, especially in those areas where you are going to receive these people in those areas were very all the deputies also and also where are the people that they haven't go to stay. They have been in these places for older life, but they the per -tunities alternatives to build up very well. So we have to do social policy focus on that. You know, there's been this conversation about a community in Mexico City called little LA. And there's also been a lot of talk about kind of the promise of jobs for English speakers in the call centers and a lot of talk of like, look there's great money to be made. And it's super high tech and little LA. You know, you it's like a real community. Can you talk a little bit about that? I mean. Is there in fact, a little LA because it feels a little exclusive to me because you know, there are let the knows who are from everywhere. They're not just from LA into Chicago, New York little little also this notion of these jobs, are they really the jobs of the future. Or if you are working in a call center, is it just another level of exploitation of what you can do because you're able to speak English and Spanish, but you're getting paid really shit and other people are making making a killing off the fact that you were deported. Yeah. First of all the people that supposedly are part of this community in little allay. They live two hours away. And then let's make you go, and they have to take us up way. Two hours to go to work and two hours to go back to their houses. The people don't have the opportunities to live in little LA first of all because expensive place and second of all been that place has existed for many years since. Tech or teletech has existed there and you'll find people. Yes, beginning Spangler shingling, but you can find that in every costs entering the country outside every causing any call center in the country, speaking English because that's where they work. And yes, I mean, it could be a good sort of thing when you're just being deported and to get back on your feet, but at the end of the day, it's not really pleasant to be answering calls from angry clients and the US about their dish service. And it's very, yeah. You have to work for many hours. It's another limbo for people. So it's not a great place and at the same time. I mean costs have been rising up at the same time that deportations have been rising up and they continue. Hello. This is an economic system version. In the US working at a cheap wage, and then you get deported. But they're also still making money out of you. These call centers even post deport Titian, and I've seen even people deported working at call centers, where they have to be in charge of responding to the people that deposit money to the inmates are the people that are in the detention centers, you know, who takes care of setting up. Those accounts are deportees here in Mexico City. Okay. Fuck. To work at language line. As an interpreter in my house talking with people from is. And they were like, I don't know what I would do without you because I'm interpreting all the court hearings from my house in Mexico City. And that's how you're making money. I was making money gear ago. But. All right. Okay. I need a taco. Listen, I I I applaud you for keeping a real like that. Because your voice is so needed right now in this debate as journalists Kamei's ING. Kamei's ING, but I have one last question. Fair Oni said because this has been one that's been really pressing me looking at immigration migration enforcement holistically, globally and just the whole relationship between the United States and Mexico. I mean, the truth is that the United States has given Mexico millions millions of dollars to help with immigration enforcement and just from January two thousand fifteen to September of this year. Mexico's expelled over four hundred thousand people from Guatemala and on us and the United States deported in that same time period about three hundred thousand people. So in fact, there's like seven hundred thousand people being deported going back to Central America. So it always makes me think of what you mean by a wall, build the wall has Mexico become the wall. I think that Mexico now really we are doing that there to work. What would we are not having nothing? Nothing changed. Earning return in return. Nineteen something else like Mexico is doing because of Marietta and many other three two with the United States. We help a lot is curiosity to the United States. So I think that is the moment now to put that in table. So we are going to help you insecurity issues. So you are going to buy good three to our migrants, you're going to be this with remind runs and you're going to respect their human rights. And this is something it's a coin that means something to Trump because acuity is important for the United States. So I think that if we are helping the United States in a lot of ways is because I being working security for a long time in government. I've been negative aiding Mary that also so I know that we do a lot of work for the states in terms of security. So I think that Trump's in okay, treating us. He's threading. We'd like. Calmer things and everything. So we can also put these things on the table. I mean that way maybe we are going to have something. But what we are doing. Now is that their teacher for the United States? People don't want to stay in Mexico. So we we need to help them to ask asylum in the states. So what we're doing? Now is no if you want you can ask to be refu he here or go to your country. So we are the wall in that way. So what we have to do you want to go to states? So okay, I'm going to help you with a beast of transit, and you ask ac- Aloom because the Seylam is not an illegal fear is something that. In the state. So right that people that. International. All right, Maggie, Lauretta illness. Don, thank you so much for joining us on our live edition in Mexico City. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. Ause end of the night, come on guys. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. We also want to say special things to. A California for hosting us and to zoom studio, and he sucks those men and all of his team for recording this live edition. Thank you so much. That was just a really emotional conversation. This has been a really emotional time to be witnessing these stories in the United States. A lot of the numbers are just so big two million deported two point five three million deported, and we get a chance to actually see people's lives. Hear them talk about themselves and also. This country has a history of activism, it goes with the people wherever it goes. So I'm not surprised to see that. There are Mexican activists who are organizing around this. Right. And I think one of the things that I've been struggling with as an American journalists just how there's been no context. No history. No knowledge by my fellow American political journalists who are now suddenly immigration policy experts. And I just feel like we have to have conversations like these to kind of push and force the context in the history and the root causes and the cooperation between the United States, and Mexico, and how people on central Americans are being viewed. So it's my little good. I need that in my little grain of sand. Instead of just being like, oh, this is so simplistic when I see cable news coverage. I have to do something about it. That's why we're down here to have this conversation because it's really really important. And I just wanna say thank you for listening. We really appreciate it. Thank you for for supporting us. And that's why you're gonna do your homework. Right. And find us on Facebook, and like us on Instagram and on Twitter, and and really tell all your friends to listen because we feel really strongly about this work. It's our first international word. Now, we have an audience that we're building around the world. So thank you to each. And every one of you for being listeners, we really appreciate it. I wanna give special sow doubt to our team in Mexico City, Nicole Rockwell and one bubble Garnham who worked super hard the people that you see California that hosted us our producers back in New York City, Stephanie look boat down. I really wanna go eat some. Throws stones sports. All right, guys. Thank you for listening. As we are talking here in this. Okay, law and Sokolova. I'm talk. I know what Sokolow Sokolow put forward. Right. Okay. We're here at El Zocalo. The Ford Foundation working with visionaries on the frontlines of social change worldwide.