TSS 017: ZBrush 3D Artist Dopepope


What's up listeners? You have clicked on another episode of the spin off show. And on this particular episode, I have on a friend of mine that I've made a friendship with through the power of podcasting. So this guy is an amazing three d zebra fish artist. His name he goes by his dope, pope. He's built up quite a following on Instagram. You can find him on Instagram at dope. Pope, a replace the with zeros you can check out a lot of his work. I've actually become friends with him through this podcast and through going to g fest every year, which is a Godzilla festival convention that happens every year Chicago, so through the power of podcasting and through going to that festival. I met Mr. dope, and he's a fantastic guy. I'm in a daily chat with him with some other Godzilla nerds. And I've been wanting to have him on my show, and with the recent release of Godzilla king of the monsters is a perfect opportunity to bring. On a guy that does a lot of work in bizarre, creature and character design. He does a has a lot of Godzilla pieces out there, a lot of different kaija pieces out there, but he doesn't only do Godzilla stuff, he dulls into a bunch of other pop culture monsters in things along those lines, he's a fantastic artists like I mentioned, but he's even better guy, and I really enjoyed my conversation with him. Check out the great and powerful and talented dope. Pope. Jeez. The job just show. Nope. What's up? Hi. Or just me. It's just me right now. But everyone else listen later. Hi, I'm good. I'm good. How y'all still on the east coast? Yeah. Brooklyn Glenn ruin through over here. I can hear it in your voice. You have such a great voice, that's funny, because last week was all about Greek voices. Yes, about people with great voices, and I was thinking, my voice associated that can't can't eat the lex one. If the Ren that was a great show is you like I did, it was very interesting. If you reasons. But it yes it is very interesting. You really funding. I thought, yeah, it was interesting for me. Because obviously I had I done a show. This guy named Jason Dutch, and he's been on our show. And I've been on his show, he's from, from the underground podcast. And he messes, me goes, hey, you should have this girl on rent. I've had her on my show, she's a phone sex person provider. And then within like that day, she emailed me as a hey, I heard you wanna talk to me. So we like emailed bang fourth. I. And then I messaged or a Skype with her audio for like five minutes and immediate was like, oh man. Like she's got quite a personality. She absolutely does somebody. But another man, I haven't really talked to her. So then when I when I was about to record the show with her not that I was nervous, but I was just more or less. I don't know where this is going to go. I don't know if she's going to do a bit the entire time. I don't know if she's going like, like we're going to have phone sex with what's going to happen. I don't know. If you points, it seem like that's where it might be going curiously. If you're going to take it, there was, I think it was perfect just the way it was. I didn't want to a screwed up with that have been. If you went there, I wouldn't have I wouldn't have let it go there. I, I would have, I don't want, I don't want it to ever devolve into into a show where like we're doing a bit. You know, I wanted to be like, even if I like, for instance, if I have a comedian on or something. No, they can tell couple jokes but I don't want the whole show to be jokes. And that's the same thing with, with her. If, if I'm talking to a phone sex person I don't want it to be this whole flirty thing, the entire time I just wanna just talking absolutely wasn't. But I don't if easily able to hide it if you wanted to come out more or. Keeping it down. I mean, I you know, I was definitely being nice and flirt flirty, but I wasn't trying to make it, you know, get too raunchy unless unless there was just a conversation about being raunchy, but I didn't want it to turn it that way. We do a lot of like editing to these shows, after the fact that you have to go in there, cut, if you Isa's out I was much I do zero editing. Well, first off Iran, it's the show, but he doesn't I tell him, we're not editing anything like it's literally just everything is just happens the way it happens. Would there be a situation where you're like holy shit? I after compass out. That would be man. I mean it's one of those situations where, you know it when you when you when you probably say, yes. Yes. Ably. Yeah. I mean I don't even know what that line would be. I mean, I, I don't personally want to talk about where I work. So if that comes up, okay. That was one of the questions I want to ask. I don't know that side of you, but you don't have to. I'll tell you off the record. It's fine. I just don't like it's one of those things where I'm not we're we do actually now make a little bit of money off the show, which is nice. It's not a ton, but I'm not I'm not able to quit my job and do this full time. So, you know, anything can be isolated and twisted. So I just rather not have that go back to my employer. Absolutely push. That was curious about it. Yeah. I'll tell you. I can tell you off the record. It's one of those things to were. I mean, we've done, including my, this spinoff show, we've done like almost three hundred episodes. So there's shows. Yeah. You figure each show is an hour to two and a half to three and all that says, never missed a week, right? Yeah. We, we I sometimes MRs weeks and rug. Boy, and sure on it. But for the most part, I'm on everything. So there's, you know, seven eight hundred hours of meat talking out there, I'm bound to said something that could be isolated and be cut up into a way that makes me look bad. Without saying anything out there at this point. Right. Right. For the most part, you guys pretty chill. Like you. Now, we don't we? Does. But we, we don't get too far on the end. Or it's, you know, we're not, we're not discussing controversial things at the end of the day for at least the jock inert is mostly just pop pop culture stuff. And then this, this show can be a little more. You know, we can get into some stuff if we need to. But I try to stay pretty neutral, and I try not to try not to I am in general. I'm pretty neutral on most things. I'm more here just to learn. So I don't have I have my opinions on things by more here? Just for the guest, give their opinion and then have a chat about something anything really cool that you have the opportunity to do that. Because it's a great idea. I mean listen to Joe Rogan time too. Yeah. Yeah, exactly the opportunity to talk to people on different walks of life, and just pick their brain and just have a conversation. It's really, it's really cool. I like it. We'll tell it people. I know you've been on jock nerd before. But tell everybody know just give a quick synopsis of who you are, and what you do all that crap. Rush artists. Critique fixing something with your hands right now. You hear that? Yeah, fiddling with the three D printing area. So it was it was a visual aid for those in. Can't see shit. Yeah. I do. I do create monsters zebra. And now I'm starting to get paid for it. So it's a wonderful life for me. That's what I was born to do. And only now getting the recognition for it or the opportunities that I always wish I had explain what Z brushes 'cause I, I know what it is just because I've had you on the show. But before ever meeting, you, I would not know what that was. It's a three d modeling software. More sculptural in say a box model like Maya of something where you just starting with the square and Mike, adding, adding the greed in pulling squares out, in mathematical. I'm very intensive this as us blog a piece of clay in the center in each thought sculpting, as you would if you're doing it with real Klay in front of while. While it's very. Creative. I find it to be more more so than the other ways have you ever done it in real life, if not much snow here, and they're picked up some clay and dealt with it in school added doing a couple of times and for fun. I did a few times. But no, I don't even know what when I thought I would be good at this. But I just felt I just loved what I was seeing online people, usually it and the results, they're getting and I just myself I got I gotta learn that. That's gotta I gotta get my hands on that. And I did and I never looked back. And how long ago was that? Twenty thirteen point thirteen times flying. So it's a good could choke years. Now it wasn't that great when I first started, but up by you learn. I learned so much just the short amount of time. I mean, you are your stuff is really good. I don't take my opinion with a grain of salt is because I don't see a lot of other zebra stuff. I'm just I'm not in the industry enough to know. What's good or not? But your stuff is really impressive to me. It's good regardless is that's important. You know, but thanks, thanks for that. And I I'm always trying to learn something new always trying to. Out of my comfort, zone and see what else I can work on. So you mentioned you mentioned something that you were like this is when you said something along the lines. But this is what I'm supposed to do when a meant to do, like, when did you when did you realize you were you referring to zebra brush specifically? Oh, no. I was referring to are making monster making monsters. Okay. Like designing characters in monsters because that's always been at person since I'm a kid kids, rowing on the insides of library books. Love those pages that white drawing on those things and. Never never stopping that. Now, I now see where she's actually gave me an ability to do it better than I've ever been able to do before exponentially better. Which really it's just absolutely rejuvenated. Mike creative ability, and Mike creative motivation more than anything has before that. And I really really I owe a lot to brush, for that reason, and then you've been doing this in two thousand thirteen and one of the big things I noticed, you know, besides how awesome, your work is, is that I mean you filled up quite a following, so she on Instagram. Right now. It says twenty eight thousand one hundred followers how to hell. I couldn't tell you how you really baffles me. So much to be honest because I used to think no one gives a shit about what I do. And I still kinda think that enough, clearly this is not the case, though. Yeah, I guess, not what I'm saying. Hey I got something for sale. You think that's eight thousand dollars would buy a lot of money. You know, sometimes, sometimes it does. Sometimes it doesn't. Yeah. I mean, I'm great for anybody who feels the need to follow likes my work enough to stick around a love it. It's great love the feedback. I get. And I think it's, it's motivating to like you see all these people that care about your work. So let me just keep posting. I wanna keep hosting and keep showing what I'm doing. And I love that. I love that aspect. It's definitely given me a direct line to cares about what I care about. That's important for me is just organic, like new didn't really do anything. Did you like did something happen, whereas overnight, you got thousands of followers or we're just this organic natural growth, it's like a combination. It's sometimes it's quiet and then won an image. I posted a year ago, someone will just post it on their account that happens to have a million followers overnight. I'll get six thousand new followers, and that's happened so many times, and, yeah, that's basically, how it grew. I didn't buy any of these followers that's Fisher. I just don't see the point in doing that. No. But I mean you'd rather have it be organic natural. I just feel so pathetic buying. You. Dollars a larger company has to go ahead and do that. You know, but to me, it's mind boggling. It would one follower and got up to twenty thousand. How does I work with buying? Do you know about that? I don't know anything about that. I just really knew it was not going to be something I would ever do. But I know people do it it's just don't understand it at all. Congratulations. You have you have a great big number up there. But none of it's real, it's all ally. Those people don't interact with you, the no comment, or they maybe there's an algorithm out that they send you fake comments. I don't know how it works. Clearly, I mean, what does that what does that achieve it just gives you a false sense that? Made it or something. I think yeah. I mean, I think the you know, the whole Instagram thing is if it gives you the sense of if people come to my page, they'll, no, they'll know right away. Then I'm here because I don't have more than a thousand followers. I have a number. That's impressive. I mean you're, you're, you're number twenty eight thousand one I saw that went, I don't know. Anybody I don't know anyone else that has that many followers? I, I know a lot of a lot of good looking women that don't have many followers. You don't this post Godzilla artwork and moral comics, and DC stuff. And let's goes viral and people like that they like it's hot stuff. It's fan. It's a fan aren't people love that. And people come to it. If I was posting just random generic monsters original content guarantee. You wouldn't have a number nearly that, that it's the fact that I'm coasting God Zillah, it's, it's, it's that kind of stuff, and I don't want to be a little my own work, but it's definitely that there's people in the industry that blow me away. Not even five hundred gonna say, I'm great 'cause I have twenty thousand. But it is kinda nice. It's valid in its own way because I'm not in the industry as fully as like to be Morgan on that every day, I try to get in deeper and deeper. You know, I guess once you're there that you don't have to worry about what people think, is you over there. You know, you've got that you'd mentioned that you're now starting to see like some winds off of this stuff. Are you doing this fulltime? Yeah. Absolutely. It's a relatively new development but I. I used to be a photo retouching for like a decade, a working working with Q studios in New York City, there for like between two thousand two thousand ten start freelancing from two thousand ten two right now. But in the, the photo retouching stuff kinda withered out, got replaced just zebra work. Now it's about two years. Those huge debt for me. I am not having to rely on the retouching anymore to pay the bills and just full times rushing freelance. Whatever comes my way, and I don't even solicit. I only, you know, I don't look for work. It's all found me really to be able to do it. You know, pay your rent and bills. Not have to rely on anything else. But that. The overwhelming jobs that you have to turn some down, sometimes, so it's, it's been great. That's awesome. It's just a beautiful thing. I mean now at that point, it's not even I mean it's still work, but it, it doesn't feel like you know, it doesn't feel like the, the work in the traditional sense where you're doing a job that you really don't wanna do all man. I've had so many of those shred. Feeling of dread. I don't wanna do it anymore, right. It's, it's miserable wants to spend their life like that. You're absolutely right. I I love what I'm doing them. So happy to be doing it doing on my own terms my own way. It's just a candidate. Imagine have nickel. Like, if I had to a nine to five, however, used to be, you know how many, how many projects are you juggling at one time? Could be like five or six is is that a lot? Yeah. I mean one person that's all. From one person. No one person for one person to work on six jobs at the same time, that's I would say that's a lot. And, you know, I think thankfully, these jobs, like, did lines enough? So harsh so I can. I don't wanna compromise anyone job so that the quality goes down or anything right to do work on one, and then show them that one week for feedback I get on the next one and it's a lot of juggling a lot of time management, but it's so far so good. Well, I, I want wanna bring this up early, so that we can either get this out of the way or talk about it. But I heard there was a little bird in my ear that mentioned you were talking talking to some studio. Maybe maybe a studio that produces Godzilla films rhymes with dairy. When I'm allowed to really talk about that. Okay. I can neither confirm nor deny, this is legendary right? Confirm or deny kidding confirm nor deny. But it's really cool. Whatever whatever, whatever may or may not be happening. Exactly. Enough. Let's just wanted to make sure we talked about that if we could we can't, then I wanted to get it out of the way, so that anyone that maybe knows you personally and is like is heat doing something for them. We can just we can knock that out. So that they're not wondering. Why didn't ask you that early? So that's and I will be more than happy to talk about it further with you, when I'm actually able to. Yes. I know I did a did have the opportunity to visit legendary studios back in January. And again, that's where the speculation started because I did post the picture said, hey, you did look at me. Because who wouldn't do that? Of course, as long as long as you don't, as long as there's no sort of legal ramification for doing that. I would know one hundred percent do that. It was such a great experience when I walked in those posters, everywhere Pacific rim. Toys everywhere. It was just like this is heaven. Look like my. Fictitious alternate dimension place to live. Are they in LA? My home. Are they in LA? Yeah, yeah. Okay. Nice Burbank Burbank, right? Right. Right. That's really film, a lot of stuff. Well, when people okay, I'm going to get back into those like when you're doing, so you're doing commissions people. Do so people want you to do exclusively. Zebra stuff. Right. For the most part. They want me to do that. That's what I'm doing. Okay. Yeah, I'm just doing Z rush. And from zebra could either make three prince tab that turned into toys or just throughout TD artwork. So even if they don't know or care from using zero just want a cool piece of art. I'm doing it and zero dot it now. So do you see a lot of people taking your work and turning into a three like an actual toy? Yeah. Lately? That's been a ton of what I've been doing chief, as lots of toys that I worked with people to do you know what the cost is on turning your work into a toy. Or is that up to each individual person? I don't know concrete figures, but I do know that it's, it's up there. It's expensive work with Titanic reations often quite a few months already, and I know he, he lays out a lot of money to get this stuff done. It's like. Thousands on top thousand while. Sixty thousand I think he said it to make to make. Dinosaur kind you like one toy. No. Not one do the run of like thousand I guess it's still they won't do like a really small run. And yeah. Maybe the prototype, does cost like twenty thousand I want to do that one to see what looks like and then move on from there as digital sixty thousand do they do they involve you in the process of the toy, like making the actual toy. Or are you done once you create the brush three? I don't even know what you call it. It's just the model. Yeah. I think give them I don't create like if it's gonna be automated. I don't do the joints or anything like that. They, they what I worked on. And then, from there, they run with it, and the I'm not so much involved in any of the making of afterwards the actual. Creation of the toy got it. And, you know, honestly, I don't know if I could be, I'm very interested. I would love to be there and see how it's done, but I would probably it would probably take up so much time. And I wouldn't be able to do that, next job that it was like waiting in line for me to work on. Oh another thing I gotta bring up again. You can confirm you can deny you can't do some. I heard you were working on some sort of x plus toy that I can say it's out there. I did did iris x plus the Gammarra Gammarra three who I don't know how many well actually with your fans will probably watched gamma three. But the, the main I say the mainstream audience in America, maybe what one percent. Three who iris is iris is. So yeah, I think anyone who's listening because, because they, they know made in they definitely are tied you realize but yeah, I would say most people wouldn't know what the hell Irishness everything it's flower, which is part of the I. Right. But yeah, I did an iris for them in the United orga for them, which is thrilled that they call him back to another model and for some reason, orders almost finished in ready to ready to to be in stores in iris. I've haven't seen or heard from her. But it's told she's being produced. So I just how did they find you? I got an Email from them random okay? Do you wanna do iris for us and hells? Yeah. So, yeah, they just I think they said they found me on station, which is wonderful. That's amazing. Just this a testament to social media. Right. Is that there's? Say it. This may be even what five six years ago, I don't know, when Instagram blew up, but, I mean, this one happened, it wouldn't happen, this easily at least absolutely. It gets a bad rap social media for like turning everybody to terrorist exam bees, in, like us selfie. Sophie Rhett, people instaflex, stuff like that. But the flip side of is like when you really trying to get skits, teen in promote yourself you cannot do without it. I without this will ever would have got any of these jobs. And I was just gonna say you with without this, you'd probably still working job that you didn't wanna do, right? In what you do. Commissions fulltime without social. Of course, absolutely not. I don't even know. You're right. It'd be stuck somewhere doing something hate to be a hobby for you would be doing it for sure. But it would be a hobby, but where would I be posting these pictures of me like just me looking at them right if we didn't have the internet like in the nineties, and I still drawing? I drew a picture, and I was the only one I was just gonna say, the only people that would see your work would be if you, you know, you showed it to friends or you took it to Khan, and even like that seems so outdated. Now, if you went to a con, let's say social media didn't exist. You went to a man. This is my big shot. I'm gonna go to this con- allow people see me what a hundred people seem to one hundred people, you know. And they see you. And then unless they talk about you. It's done that interaction that never happens again with social media. This this, this is seen forever, and ever, unless for some reason, the, the Chinese takeover are internet. You know, just watching that on vice. I'm like, oh, man. I hope they don't do that. But, you know, this is I mean, there is a lot of good stuff to social media. There's like, as you mentioned all the negative connotations, and there's a lot of that. But this has made your career. Yeah, we're into percent. I can't. I can't even think about. I don't even have clients that I've met, you know, they're other states. All right. I've never seen them spoke to them. I just just emails and they see my work online, and then they contact me and doing doing the job. And we never we never meet, you know, to beat all of them because they're a wonderful people after dealing with them over and over the very cool. But I mean you know how many commissions I've done that without the internet would be impossible. This is just a wonderful, wonderful thing. And yet, if you Spiring artists, you have to have to have an online presence, you just, don't worry about likes and followers. Just keep putting your stuff. It's just for you. It's not for them and till is for them because you've made it. They just respect what you doing. And how much you care about right? Right. Yeah. Definitely. I mean you're missing out if you if you're an artist and you're not posting your stuff online. In my opinion. I mean unless you know unless it personally is just for you. But I mean great. That's what it is. Yeah. That's what is. But if you if you're if you want to see if this can go somewhere online is a great presence. Absolutely. I was going to ask. So the just so we can plug the Oregon, the IRS when those do come out what toy company is that how can people find them? I know it's X plus, but I actually don't know that much X plus other than when I see chief est- Villafane pluses family synonymous with really high end like detail, collectibles that are beautiful and must have. But they're expensive. No, I only have a handful over the years like. Iran and a Gyger love camera. Yeah. Yeah, the really good stuff, this so many, I want now that I just don't have any room in my apartment for them. And I can't afford them. Anyway. I know I remember going to Jesus last year. This is God's Iliffe, Essen, Chicago, and discovering, X plus, and I didn't buy it at the time because I was like, oh, man, that's a lot of money. But I was just like enamored with them. I was like these are fucking beautiful these things these things. And but the thing is, they're expensive and they're, they're huge. You know, anyone almost keep the box to oh, for sure. So I was I was going to myself, these are expensive in. I don't have the space for them. But if I ever become filthy, rich and have a room where it's just like my, my, my crap, I'm going to buy all the experts. I've thought of myself a million times, you probably need more the one room, though, this, so many of them, and they need to be displayed. Like it's one of those days where you buy, it's a beautiful piece of work. That's something that needs to be display that doesn't go when your closet and live there for the rest of your life. Right. Wanna be able to walk around it, right? Distance. You want to be able to show it off. Yeah. For sure. It's crazy. There's so many this, so many that I want them. Three D though. I feel like you could just make. Yeah. That's exactly I was at a show this weekend. And they had a until the story aboard Godzilla vinyl, that's one thousand dollars. And thank God, it was because I would have bought it if it wasn't for wasn't one thousand what bought it, but it was, and I wanted that thing, so bad. Thousand dollars on my God. I just said to myself, you know what I'll make my own my own. I don't know if it will be vital, but I can make my own in three D printed. It won't be worth thousands of dollars. But it'll be what I wanna look at right. Right. Right. There's something about I know I made it. So it's not as exciting to me. Right. Because I made it. I don't I don't keep my work on my own walls. I'm not inspired by my own work. I'm inspired by other people's works, right? Right. I want to look at my stuff all day. I just looked at it all day, and we'll look at it all that the way I can relate to that. And I've said this numerous times with the way, I really relate to that is people go man, do a lot of podcast. You listen to yourself. I go. Listen to your shows, after I don't listen to them. No. I don't. I mean, I'll listen to little clips here and there. But I don't go back and listen to my entire show the only time I've ever done. That is the first ever episode because I thought that was cool. And then after that I was like I've lived it. I don't you know, I'm not like as you just said, I'm not inspired by myself talking. I'm inspired by other podcasts and what they do. And, you know, I don't I don't wanna devolve all my time into just listening to myself, that seems kind of narcissistic, thought maybe could be trying to hone your skills. He what here I have done that. I do. So the thing I need to get rid of, in I'm working on it, but it's not been getting any better is I try to not say, like as much although I still say it. I must have set it at times. It's, it's so natural. It's but in you think about it. You go like your thinking to yourself sound like a valley girl. To anyone listening right now. I'm really really sorry. All those like so far, and I do I do a lot too. So those are things I try to work, but I mean, we're having a conversation, whatever I'm not going to try to be super proper. But if it's something where I can avoid saying it as many times, I do. Then that's what I've tried to work done. I wondered if you could go back and post just delete, those likes you, can you? Weirdo. Imran sometimes we'll at it that stuff out. But then it just very labor intensive and for take. Yeah. For my show, I don't want him to have to do more work than necessary. Because I'm he's getting nothing out of it. Other than just posting it. He he just, he's a nice guy, and he likes doing that stuff, but I don't want him to have to edit my entire show. So that's another reason why the show is just unfiltered conversation. The only time I've ever had edited as, if I say something like this, in factually incorrect, something stupid like I mispronounce someone's name or something like that. Then I'll edit that out. But other than that, really respectful. Yeah. Rarely never had the show edited the I was gonna bring up the only time I actually like listening to myself is I'll be going home late at night, and I'll I'll like be at my place, and I'll have had a few beers or something. So I'm a little tipsy and I'm eating. And that's when I throw my podcast. Guest just because that's the time, what I feel like admiring myself and loud. This is awesome that I have a podcast, just like. Happy. Yeah. You could say like shit. Kind of happy with your life, and you, you can't believe that you doing something you've always wanted to do. That's cool. What I'll do is I'll go back to each spinoff show. And I'll just play twenty seconds of each show with the guests talking. And I just go back and I admire them like them. I've had a lot of cool on. That's the only thing that I do. That's the only times I actually listen back like, Mary doing this who who would be dream get. Oh man. I would love to. I would love to talk to anybody. That'd be. You. I wish I could have this right now. Girl, I mean, guy or the I'd love to have on, let's see here every time Rogin hat. So here's the thing. Everytime, Rogan has someone on. He discovers someone that I'm I go, I'd love to have that person at. But before that, I didn't know that I would want to have them on. You know what I'm saying? Like, yeah, it's one of those things where he discovers people that I go. Oh, jeez. That's that person. Sounds amazing. I don't I'm not celebrity obsessed at all. I don't I I don't really care wouldn't have to be celebrity. It could be somebody's important to you very interested in. I would love to have on, you know, some sort of. People that were like marine biologists. Or were scientists more people than doctors. I would just love to have on really smart people head on one time, a Etta Morris who's an environmental scientists. And that guy was talking circles around me, but I enjoyed it because he's just so fucking smart. Those great shows very interesting shows. Right. So my, my dream gets are people that are just really smart, that don't want particular what I listen to Joe Rogan there, he, he doesn't show at daddy doesn't or a couple of times due to day. That's nuts. Three or four in the week, he does have a lot of may fighters in stemmed up comedians in as a I, I can't listen to that many fighters in that many stand up comedian. But so I do tend to skip a lot of his of his shows. But then when he does have that find a scientist on, or somebody outside the realm of by may or stand up comedy than I will listen to those, and I always loved them. And I think he's wonderful. He's just really, really good. And I'm sure he's great talking, those MMA fighters, the stand up comedians, but I can't I'm not at world and I can't won't hold my interest for two right? We'll just go listen to just for the sake listening to I rather go somewhere else in the something else. No. I, I mean his shows are meant to be picked, choose pick and choose. You're not supposed to listen to everything. No one has. I mean he releases three hour shows and he does three or four week. I don't know who has the kind of time you might actually. I'm I'm that person that has the term knows because I can't my eyes have to be on the screen, but might years open to anything, and that's why I love your show at loved the jock nerd show. I haven't missed the episodes since I started listening to eat it back in twenty sixteen. I think did you start listening to us because you knew us personally? No, I didn't know you guys at all. I just met you guys the and that's when I started listening. And so happy that the show is good, because I didn't wanna have to. Actually put her on. And I and I've loved it as I was media amazing. I don't understand why people listen to our show. No, I know you've said that many times I think it's funny, and I get that. But it's a good show very shit. You listen to the spinoff one as well. Yeah. One, but I've listened to a few of them any of those any of those stand up feeding yours like Rogan's. Yes. I read the caption if it's if it's interesting to me, I'll plop it on. It seems like it could be interesting. But if it's something just like I'm not in a mood for that. I won't listen. It's meant to be that way, too. Yeah. And no fence because I know you only have a handful so far. But if you keep this up as long as you keep up jocking, you'll have a million of them. No time. I'll million man. Oh man. Mean there's a lot of what we're, I mean, your episode. Seventeen already? Of much of this yet. I when I started and see which ones I missed that I should listen. Well, when I started this, I was just on a whim, I went, I don't, I don't know how many people are going to be able to even have on. I at the time, I think I wrote out like eight or nine guests, and it's already evolved into this, and I have plenty of other guests. I'm not going to be running outta guess, anytime soon. So it's cool. Yeah. And I'm happier on. I love this stuff. I'm happy. Come on. Good. Good. Anyway. I was just going to one question on the spinoff, Resor any episode that you listen to where you were like, oh, that was cool. Well, you have only because I know the guy with a lot of episodes. Yeah. And I listened to August show. The aug raccoon. Owning on August we're going. Yeah. That was interesting. I didn't know him at all. And I found him very interesting. The listen to everything you had to say I was really interested in it. But I could totally see how a lot of people would just tune out too. Yeah, he's got a lot of Heasley knowledge, Bank, basic or not even just like a history knowledge just random facts, like a library, basically. And it's in the gods. Zillow realm saw, I'm all over it. I just didn't know that, that's who he was. And that's what he sounded like in. That's what he can do for an hour. Just an hour and a half talk that much love so much. I found interesting factoid behind the scenes stuff of movies that came out what eight years ago. Maybe forty fifty years ago. Yeah. Yeah. Yes, years, like that's crazy to me that he's. A lot. He's. Literally, the type where I just threw in a nickel and he played. Ten songs. You didn't talk too much. He's he did allow talking. No. I just let them go. I let him I have to call you out at one point. I think I heard yawn, and I started I lost, but I was left my as might. I think he did like it was an insult to him. He's just couldn't help it also. So that show we were supposed to record that show like the day after we record it. We were supposed to recorded a decent hour. An I message, hey, you're gonna be good for tomorrow. And he goes, oh, no. I can't I'm sorry. I can't I was gonna message you, but we gotta reschedule and I go how about tonight like late and he goes. Yeah, I can do late tonight. So it was and he's on the west coast. So for me, I think that we started the show. It probably eleven o'clock my time. So by that time I usually go to sleep by around twelve at the latest so it was already kind of past my bedtime on a weekday. So I might have been a little that you either coming from working out and you haven't eaten. Yes, that's really gonna wear you out. If you go late, you might you might have to yawn. Might have to. I've been trying to now before the show the day before, not drink. So that I come in completely clear headed because I've done the show if you times, hung over, and I feel like I'm not as a sharp. It's got to be rough. Yeah, I don't I don't wanna I don't wanna do that anymore, so that being over affects your voice. Now, your your willingness to speak with your actual voice. Sometimes it can it more of just, I just don't want to it more as I'm getting older. It just affects my mood and my motivation. I really considered a stop drinking for a while. Often as you work out, though. I don't think that, that would be something that you would be a choice too. Yeah. Yeah. That's for sure. Yeah. I mean, the thing is I'm still a single guy in Chicago. So it's it is fun to be out and about and be social. But man, just drinking socks. To some money. And it's to stay. I was like, man, I got a cool it off. I gotta say, I, I got to rationalize like when the time to like when is like the big moments to go hard. Instead of just partying all the time just like save it for like the big moments like why and you know things that you should be celebrating. Don't don't just go out and get drunk because it's just Saturday Coachella and music events, and yes, things other big gatherings that you plan for not. Hey, it's Friday night, and you're out, and your friends or at another bar. Go meet them up, and drink some more, like go meet them up. You don't have to drink as a lot of good intentions, but, you know that's not gonna happen. Right. Right. Yeah. Like I'm in my late forties. Still doesn't stop. It just gets worse and worse in the hangover's take longer. But it's still I'm still trying to find that, that middle ground where I could chill out with it. I don't drink during the week, we need that we just the weekends and one of those binges on the weekends it's just the let off some steam kind of thing and yet, I'm still doing I did it yesterday. The same way I don't I wouldn't consider myself alcoholic because I don't drink during the week, and I'm not it doesn't motivate me to be happy or anything. But when my weekends hit me hit here, hit, I'll definitely enjoy a beverage or two and then you have a couple, and you're like, man. I feel good. Let's keep this like alcohol in, in small. Doses is actually pretty good. Like, you know, it loosens you up your you're more open to having conversations with random people. You're, you're just a better version of yourself a more social version of yourself until you drink until you're not. The exact opposite either wars version. Then yeah, that's funny. You become a better version of yourself. You're friendlier usually nicer. You know, like I said, more social, and then also jump off a cliff and you're the worst version yourself ever. There's never like that middle ground. Where you're like, oh, maybe I should stop it just happens. Sometimes. Hopefully I as I get older. I can I can figure it out. I'm figuring out. Your body's going to help a lot. It's gonna make it more painful, eventually you just going to have to stop. Yeah. I'm gonna have to hold off, especially so now I'm going to Vegas at the end of the in three or four weeks. So. Abacha party, one of my best friends getting married and he's having his batch party in Vegas and. Be something it'll be great. I love it. I you know, I work out a lot, but I still I don't watch what I eat as much as I should. So I have a little, like fat that I want to get rid of before I go to Vegas. So I might cut out drinking general for the next three or four for sure. Yeah. Yeah. I'm gonna see if I have the discipline to do that. Also this past week. And I drink so much. Why what I've been doing is I cut out beer, beer drinker. I love Marya. See, I don't I can't stand out. So I, I'm binge drinking vodka or tequila. That was that was the problem this weekend was my first my first weekend without beer. I'm doing no beer. No. Like I don't really sugar anyways, but I'm trying to avoid sugars so I was just doing to Keila water lime. Yeah. And binging? Which basically made everything worse. Well, you get drunk faster. Yeah. But it's a cleaner drunk and you don't like pissing every five minutes. That's true. You don't feel like a big blob of beer, but the thing is the thing is, is you're drinking so quickly in my experience. I was drinking it so quickly. I would normally a beer that I was drunk quicker, but not realizing how drunk, I was because I felt like it was just ring and beer. And then just. Yeah. Just up the water part. I guess and, but the thing is my hangovers were were worse. I guess your body's not used to because I, I think no beer thing. Makes my body feels worse than if I did tequila. I'm used to doing this. I don't I don't like beard that much Bailey. I really here just having a one taste good at the moment. But otherwise, the hard stuff. Yeah. I'm gonna I'm gonna have to I might just see if I can discipline myself not drink for the next three or four weeks. I need to I need to punish myself for this past weekend, and just go see more movies and stuff zillion. Yeah. We could talk about that. I've seen Weiss twice. Okay. It's you must have liked it enough to go back, so less. That's, that's good to know. Well, the, the it was planned to see it twice from the beginning because we I was gonna see it Thursday night, regardless. And we got this offer from a Virgin's offer to get these free forty x tickets for forty x is right. Yeah. I'm going tomorrow. Yeah. Yeah. You are. So for those that don't know forty x is basically a movie ride. Yeah. It's you know, they the chairs move seen in other women for the x. Remember, you talk. Yes. The predator movie. Oh, well. Make that movie better or worse better. Okay. Good. The other night on HBO and I was not impressed movies terrible. The, the forty X was the only thing that made it worthwhile. They blast win. Have you seen a forty x movie yet I I don't know if if it's called forty expert it was a, it was a Spiderman ride like universal years ago, but it was basically the same concept like they blew heat in your face, and steam, water, my seat shook. I loved it. I loved it. So I'm looking to this. Yeah. So we were we got an offer to see it on forty x. But. We got a little impatient. In terms of we wanted to see it Thursday night. And we were the fear that has forty x out here, had it posted there, Thursday night, showing and it was like Tuesday of this past week, so Enron just bit the bullet and was, like, we'll just buy two tickets for Thursday for a different, you know, regular showing an I max, so then we got the IMAX showing and then like day later, they posted the forty X and we're like, well, we're not going to say no to the forty X either. So then we got forty x tickets Monday. So as planned I guess the CBO. Overall? I mean you hear my show but overall I thought it was a mixed bag. I, I liked a lot of things and I really disliked a lot of things. I think overall the, the, the kaija stuff they, they hate it for the most part, the, the rest of the stuff wasn't really all that intriguing but I, I liked the kaija stuff. I like the mythology I like the personalities of all the monsters. I like what they're billing towards the, the negative reviews online were bummy out because I knew it would affect the box office and it did. So I know you, you saw very early, right? That was my, my visits who legendary I hell nice privilege of seeing the movie back in January was and this is before any of the ads. I think one and dropped and all it really showed was king door like like, like through who his wings out, and that long epic shot of your standing before Godzilla, and that's and I remember. I just like cheered jumped up cheered when I saw the trailer I was cheering. So that's that was the trailer that was out at then. So there were everything in the movie was a surprise to me. I, I didn't see a lot of that stuff coming at I my experiencing this movie in theater with no win in it. Except me, really was it was just, just had the whole to myself. And it was like wasn't an I MEK screen or anything. But it was still movie a movie theater is what it was. And I was alone in it watching this movie, and I was in all of it. I loved it. I absolutely loved it. And maybe I'm a little biased because I was there in a different way than most people would have. Yeah. Yeah. I mean you were there you were there you were there in a way that where you were blessed and thankful right? Yeah, exactly. I was already giddy to be there. And just seeing a movie that people are dying to see like seeing it before them. So it's got Zillah. I'm going love this movie. Whether. It's a piece of garbage or not is low way. It's going to be a piece of garbage to enlist. They back in time to nineteen ninety eight that's all different story. No. I mean, I saw the trailer. So I knew what I was going in for. I just can't. I don't know. I just really do they mailed this movie because it's a, it's a gut Zillow moving. We'll be what Godzilla in it. It's a God Silla movie. And I think that's the movies always have laws in this movie still has its was with the has the flaws like all the other movies assume don't understand why people getting so upset about those flaws in everyone. That's just my opinion on this. But the designs of the month. I thought they were really well done. I like like they were all. Also. I mean we already know what God's all look like I I'm with his design he does he is a little fat around the belly but that's fine. But overall he looks good. I liked all the other designs, I felt like they were all modified to kind of a, you know, a new modern level of realism, realistic designs of animalistic titans. But they still were kinda true to the origins two of these characters. I agree with you. I mean. King Adora I thought was the best. I mean they. Yeah. If anything, I think they made him, look better. You know, the wings of always been a little small for an animal of giant monster. Like all those wings calling this motherfucker. I liked that. They made the wings huge. I like that. He's like walking around on his wings and his three heads are of, like snakes going through the the city. That was cool. I liked that. They made like his legs like a little smaller, but like his his neck in his torso. Or just gigantic. I dunno. You looked better. I think he looked him flying. They made him look amazing. I totally agree. What did you think? Yeah. I love how menacing in usually seemed and so immense like such a gigantic presence, right? Love that love that love the design alike alike, what they did with the with the plates on the back in the toes out a little bit. You know all the subtle changes were just kinda needed. That's himself as looking good. Never looked better in my opinion. Phenomenal in Malta look gorgeous. I I'm not big on mothra never have been. But I really do joy Mazorra in this movie. It probably wasn't wasn't that much either one of them wrote at OMB author. I mean there was there could have been more, but, you know. Ever. Really? I wanna see more. It's not like it's the problem. Right. They never really gave us a clear shot at mothra. So I wish. Or blue just very blue. I wish we could've seen like a clear shot of what mothra looks like. But overall, I liked evenly intentions behind her design road, as you said, looked great. And I like I like that they made I mentioned this on the other show. But I'll say I like that each character each monster had, they're kind of personality godzillas this benevolent king that just wants balance king Dora's, invasive alien as just looking to take over the earth and all the heads kind of different personalities which is at loved, and then road and just kind of this punk. Right. I. On this show. He's basically like a Coyote or you just this mischievous motherfucker that just from one side of the other, and then moth, or is obviously this very caring creature. That is kind of an underdog, they mayor super small, which is I liked she she's this under underdog that fights for, for the good of humans. Yeah. Yeah. I'm glad you got all of that. Definitely, I'm sure that went over people's heads, Godzilla fans. Yeah. I've seen all these movies I picked out there. They're picking all the traits from these Dojo movies that I liked. Yeah. I was really, really impressed with the monster action so happy. Sometimes I do I do my pixel. I wish there was more daytime stuff, skull island really delivered on the daytime stuff, and it looked good and a lower. You get a really clear shot of these monsters, but just wouldn't make sense like these monsters have screwed up the entire country. They're in so much so that the air is thick with soot. Everything's been blown up and keep doors starting hurricanes just by flapping wings, his rings, and it's, it's crazy like Rodin just flies over cities completely destroyed. Amazing. You know, everything's dark in the sky and gloomy ING, and I get that, that, that was the, the mood of the movie. When I do miss those daytime seems to be. You would see a lot in the Toho films, get a clear shot of them. What? I miss when they just walk around town knocking buildings over, you know. The old school way. Where do really I just wanna see one scene where there's just walking down the street? Knock-. Ultime sake. Those were I threw on some old gods stuff after and it is kind of amusing them walking around and just hitting buildings like, knocking them over, there was a seat, I throw in Godzilla vs the story and there's a scene where they both come head to head and start fighting and destroy is just gigantic Godzilla at one point like using his arms. He just like side shoulder bombs lewke, destroy, just like boom, I was like this is so funny. They're like so big that I'm just imagining like men in the suits are so limited in how they can move that the best way they can fight is just bump into each other. Right. And it's, it's exactly why they really do too much. So the, the big action sequence used to be them slowly walking through buildings because it's all basically could've done. So now g they can make them. Do whatever you want to think of right. So they don't have to go back to just knocking overbilling say because it's not as exciting as used to. Right. That's kind of what I do miss that. Yeah. That you miss that and you don't get the shots of all the people lining up their tanks and the. You know, my favorite is the, the, the weird laser tank that every Toho era may mazer ten days or takes, what are they shoot lays the lecture city people aren't monsters? There's a few of those in this movie. If I remember the I haven't seen it since January, I'm going to go tomorrow, and I'm going to be excited to see all this again. And you're seeing in forty x which will be fun. Yeah. Yeah. That's something forty x is, is a trip watching this movie. I can't believe how polarize the whole. Office just the fans that polarized on office, just basically units. Are going? The Philip, the fans are very polarized on try to avoid it. But I saw a lot of stuff for, you know, the, the diehard Toho people are really upset. I've just seen a variety of different opinions on this movie. It's so weird to me. I don't know. It's just the world. We're living in now where knowing literally knowing could be happy. This is happening to stores fence, it's happened. The Star Trek fan L in to everyone, the only one. The only thing people are universally happy about is whatever marvel puts out, it seems that. I didn't hear anybody trash talk and game to this extent or family war. We'll have their people have their picks, but you don't see people trashing anything and gamer Infinity war whereas game of thrones now Godzilla, and as you mentioned Star Wars, those things all get just fucking rake through the fire. And I was never really a starched stores fan. It's really kind of interesting to see the fans turn on these new movies that I just don't understand one way or the other. What why they're doing every time a new one comes out I go see, like everybody else. You think it's, it's as entertaining as any other we that they put out, I know not only gonna live up to the first three that came out in the seventies. Hey, I have no idea people will go crazy. I think people are very passionate about this stuff. There's this community on, you know, social media where you can easily share your, your passion, or your nitpicks. I think a lot of people also do go to these movies, and they have these high expectations of how it should play out because it means so much. And then when it doesn't play out the way they think they get mad. And I also think that people it is, you know, I think you get more. Attention. If you bash something I think that's another thing too. Is bashing something gets more attention than universally praising something, you know that the one was that you to channel. Cinema. Sins count out count out all the mistakes, and movies or honest trailers gets is a lot of them bashing the film, you know, I think things are funny, but, you know, bashing something gets more attention than like, oh, this is great movie. Finally came out, I think I started jumped online to see if any reviews up and the first thing I saw was a tweet bashing the movie, just about I'll say that, it was the first one of the worst movie ever, made of something like Jesus Christ almost implied that villa ninety eight whereas better film on my God. It's something like say what you will about ninety ninety eight but at least had got Zillur or something like that. And that was, so that's the first thing I'm reading about this movie. I mean, that's what we will all the see this, and that's the first tweet. I see in the first. I was seeing for a while. Every time I did a search that when we come up in the in the group, you know, in it's very disheartening, and I feel like that movie deserves a lot better than most. What it's getting that's the thing for me about social media that I don't like is when there's things that I like, and then you go online, and you're, you're hoping like everyone likes us, and then you see a negative cry from a bunch of different people. It makes you go, man, that sucks, like I remember thinking that when I was watching game of thrones, you know, I had my criticisms of it. But you know, each week I was watching, I was like, okay, this is fine. I'm not like impressed, but I'm not pissed and then I'd look online and see what people were saying, I was on. Oh man. Like this, this is ugly. This makes me almost not like the show, not even wanna participate in the conversation anymore like literally after game of thrones ended there's a couple of days where I like, you know looked at some stuff and then after about a week later. So people would send me stuff about. Amo thrones. I wouldn't even read it. I'm like, I'm done. I'm so exhausted. By this negativity that I don't wanna talk about game of thrones anymore. His thing. I mean that that was going to do what it was going to do regardless, like people were going to have their opinions on it. But then them leaving the Starbucks cups in the water bottles didn't did not help any and it's, it's just brought all the trolls at that point that the trolls run it. But every everything rethink about that was like, look look how it's how obviously blatant that the they just don't care anymore. They stop caring and it's so obvious. And I don't know. Maybe you could read into it that way. It's kind of it's just a coincidence. Yeah. I looked at it is just a mistake. I mean, it's a bad thing, but it doesn't time to have that mistake, right? It's when, when you're under a mountain of criticism for people thinking that your show this season is terrible and you're watching everything. And then you, you throw in water bottles, and Starbucks cups. Look. As bad as that might that less season might have been and I don't think it was that bad. But as bad as it was, according to everybody, it's still some of the best television, you are gonna see ever. Right. So it's all well done, even though it. Can't please anywhere anymore. You know everybody bound to be upset about that. And then. I mean, they didn't they didn't stick the landing as well as they should. But I think them for, you know, the seasons of television that they did put on screen amazing. That they, they, they nailed exactly. So, you know, it is what it is. Quick quick, does not even ten gentle the what we're talking about. But I gotta ask, how the hell did you come up with your name? It's, it's, it's a talking about this on the show that used to have a he t shirt company with two buddies of mine back in two thousand really we just decided. Hey, let's just through t shirts. I did the designs for them in. There was another guy did the online presence created like a flash tore. This is a long ago was that we miss store with flash. And then. We thought we knew what we were doing, and we bought all the stock, and then within a year and a half, it's kinda like crashed burn than I logged into to promote the site on websites and stuff. I logged in dope. So then after a while people just knew me as though pope and went even cheer company, you know, came and went, I still stayed online, as though, people just, you know, becoming part of the communities there and would post my art work as though, hope, so then it became kind of like my handle, and it became less about the t shirt company more about, like what, what he's gonna post than than just kept the handle everywhere, I go, whether it's deviant or station that Instagram would just go. And now it's, it's that's why even tell my real deal. Just go pope. I liked the name dope. It's much easily are much easier to remember than whenever wherever the higher real name is which I know it's funny. I was wearing one of my old dope t shirts that actually just has were dope on it. And people don't know the origin that it was a t shirt company. So they just think I liked to wear my name. So I you know, I guess I never thought of it that way. It's like you actually have you Instagram handle on a T shirt? Well, it's a long story, I guess that's basically what have you actually started this for reference for anyone? That's listening to this dope. Pope was on jockey nerd to, oh, seven which guess what? When did we core? We recorded that. Do you have any idea? I think it was the beginning of the year. But, like two years ago. Yeah. So as February of two thousand eighteen that we release that show. So it's been. Year and a half since. Yeah. Okay. Since you've back, life is completely different. Right. You're completely different since then. Yeah. I mean I don't even live in that apartment anymore. I was living with my girlfriend at the time we broke up. About. Then because I didn't seem like that long ago. Bill shit shit happens February two thousand eighteen the hell's I. I remember. You on the show. Yes, I do. Remember you on the show, but I do. Also, remember when it ended we all chitchat, and you, you, you said like I gotta go 'cause I should do. And you out of there real fat, usually how remember where you were. Yeah. I guess because AMB run, and then rugs are adults in have lives. And then I, I you know, they can hang out, you know, and hang out at home and chitchat usually record these on Thursday or Friday night. And I'm like I get outta here like he's, he's got this studio and his in his apartment. Right. Run does. Yeah. Do you, you just sit on laptops? So no, I, I will record it runs occasionally. But for the most part, I got a, a Mike and a Mike stand in headphones that I plug it in. And it sounds fine. Then you're like own a year, a desktop computer computer desktop computer at my in my place in my room plugged into the internet and just using try cast and it records both our audio on different tracks. And then once this is over, we pay for this, and then we send it, it automatically Imran can access this. That's why when you're looking at trike has right now, you see the nerd, this is actually Imran's account that I'm recording on. Right. And then he can just access the files and throw them up, you know, at it and throw it up. So it's the it's the internet's fucking amazing, and I can do podcasts Imran rugs, do podcasts from three separate locations. Yeah. And it sounds really good. Yeah. It sounds fine. It sounds like your old, same room. Yeah. A lot of people think we're in the same room. And they realize for the most part, I I've, I, maybe record at Imran's maybe five times a year if that. Guess you live close enough to get there. The more the only reason now, actually would go to his place is if we have a guest that's in town, or if I'm doing a spinoff show, and I've done this before where the guests doesn't have any sort of way to do a podcast with me. Then we'll go to his place and he's nice enough to allow us to record in studio. But that yeah, I'm I'm remote. It's just the power of the fucking internet. He gonna do any more conventions coming up. So we were at with the press passes, and like interviewing people and stuff. So we were at this new one. It was gonna look up comic con revolution making sure that I get this. Right. So we. Yeah. We were at the comic con revolution. In Chicago this past weekend. Medium, rare got press passes. So we went and we checked it out. So it's a new, it's a new convention. So I think this was their first year it's a bit smaller. But from what I've heard, it's more focused on artists and not so much on having celebrities or culture stuff. So, yeah, it was a smaller show but for everyone that we talked to Mike. No, no. I don't know Ming Chen was there. Ooh. We saw Ming Chen, and we saw Jake the snake Roberts. Nice. But you have a snake them. No snake. I think he's done carrying around the snake. It was cool though. I mean we we walked around I. Reconnected with Andrew guilty. Who I've had on the show. He's an independent comic book creators. So that was cool. I've never really been. I've, I've decided I'm kinda spoiled. I did San Diego comic. Con in two thousand eleven and did it. As a spectator. What there's a spectator, not as with the press. They wouldn't allow me as a press, but she back then I was freaking loser. So I'm kind of spoiled because I did that. And have you have you done Comecon over though, I done New York. A few quite a few times, not not San Diego. So I I'm dying to get into it. It's, it's amazing. I mean it just so big, and there's so much mainstream stuff, and they have so many amazing panels, and the, the thing that puts it over the top as they have this thing called hall H, which is where they release. All they do all their move mainstream movie studio, and TV show panels, and you see footage from movies that are being made that aren't being released another year, and they bring on all the castes. So once you do something like that. Or once you've seen something like that. Where it's like the pinnacle. It's tough for me to like get into doing the local, Chicago cons and Chicago concert. Okay. But it's not to that level. So I'm just kinda spoiled. So every time I go to a con I'm just like it's fine. I I don't really get excited anymore. They do. They all of become the same thing. That's more. What I'm yeah, it's, it's a once I've gone to one. Yeah. Unless I'm there to like see some new art or something specific. I would've loved to have been there in hall H, the see that I got Zillah trailer like money was there. Maybe I think Larry was. And these guys got the seat that, that's awesome like that. I would've I won't I don't think I waited on the lines that they. Same to me. Hey, they did it must've been exhilarating. That that's the kind of stuff you can't can't buy. But if you don't if that wasn't there and the old like, I don't know whatever the movie was their ships. She's AM was you care about right? I know am I haven't seen it yet. It could be especially good movie you should been here, and actually it's not bad. So I'm looking forward to it. But I'm just saying it's not something I would get excited about movies. Right. Right, right. Then it's just like another big show. And if it's too crowded to see your feet and you stuck in the middle of it all it could be a pain in the ass. But as an artist as an exhibiting artist I would like to be have a table there. And just see feel that shows pulse because they say that's the show started everything. So I mean it's, it's, it's super mainstream now but it's so it's just so big when you're there, and this eight years ago, so who knows a lot of could have changed since it years ago when I was there it just felt like like this is the pinnacle of nerd, the like pretty much. This is where you have. It's like making the trip to, to mecca or something like that. If you if this was your religion, you know. Yeah. One so yeah. So to answer your question we did wizard world last year, which was which had runs a con in Chicago. I'm sure Iran all ply again this year. Yeah. I think that's cool that you guys get the. Yeah. Get to do more of them. It was it is cool to get the press pass. I mean as much as I you know, have dog. You know, of cons by saying San Diego's best and nothing's the same. It's still is really cool to get walk there and get a press pass for a podcast, Ron decide to start for years ago, just on a whim. You know, like I was never never would have thought. Yeah. It's, it's definitely a step in the right direction. It's very validating. I'm sure but since on, like, oh shit. We doing this now. Right. We're powerful. I don't know how powerful we are. But we do. We're, we're blessed past power. We are blessed. You'll be you'll be fast. I guess that's really the next show. I have next is g fest. Yeah. In July how I'm coming to your your hometown. Yeah. Yeah. I'll get to see again. Are you are you feeling about chief Asst? Psst. I'm always excited to go to defend. It's a fun show. I love seeing all over the Morris. They're all like, really good people. I think it's that camaraderie that makes me wanna go more than anything and the people that come in by my art. Thank God for them. You know, the awesome happy to be there to sell it again. But, you know, I think it's mostly because I just enjoy the company of my friends, bringing me back, many years of you've been doing this will be my. Third. Okay. I don't even know. Maybe it's my fourth. I'm really bad at math. I've gone the Sobe my fourth year going consecutively. I enjoy it because I enjoy Tila. Yeah, but I'm with you. I'm not selling art. So obviously, you do you, do you end up making your money back. Yes. Yes. Yes. I mean, this is one of those shows that it's my show say if you're right at home there, 'cause it's got Silla villa, their gun Ciller where a perfect fit. And I love being around everybody's crazy. Everybody in their selling stuff. But everybody seems to be. Getting a fair share the customers. Right. Imagine that anywhere else. I just seems were just works. I don't I can't imagine that happening anywhere else for any other kind of fan base. Imagine every order stealing Batman, right in coming away, at least either breaking even so they had a free vacation, right? Or making money. That's amazing. It's weird. How you could fill a room zilla are innocent, and still everyone has a very particular style a way that the droll villa in however whatever else they do, but they're being really strange this year. What, what you can what you can bring what you could showcase and it's very odd to me. And also, the just the behind the scenes of how the show's run it doesn't seem like it wants to expand. No doesn't like like other shows, and I just don't know enough about why that might be. Maybe I if I knew. More. I respect their decision making. I don't know it seemed like the, the genre in general blowing up. And you think gee, fresco be blowing up with it seems like they're sure going to stay small. Right. They might have their good reasons for that. But at the same time I feel like maybe the taking it out on the artists. I dunno will flake this. If of do many more shows there, feel it out this, this year almost people if I don't come back, but I hope I always have a place. There hope I'm always welcome back. I think I mean, I think I think the people that run it are there. Comfortable with where they're at? They don't need. They don't want to expand it. They've, they've run it this way for X amount of years, and frankly, you know to, to expand or two more. Is a little scary. So I'm sure they're probably just like let's just keep it out the way it is. I, I will say, though, that the biggest thing I go, your thoughts. The big reason why come back besides being fan. But even more so more so than being Godzilla fan is because of this podcast, but his cousin guys like you and John and. Lenny and meeting, Larry, and unfortunately, Knicks not gonna be there. But, you know, just meeting, you guys that that's, that's the cool thing is like this is my one time of year to see all the all these guys that I talked in, in a group chat in a daily about Godzilla with, but never get to actually see until this time one time of year. It's really nice that, that they've done that. And you know it's shit. I've only been doing it. Like, I think we figured out, it was four years doing if twenty five it was a really, really small back, then only the last five or six years now has been because it is, but I think it's wonderful that they will put this together keep it going for so long have grow to something this great in to make really close. Friends in good, meeker people. I was such a great time. So I really hope I can keep doing it. I look forward to it. Do you a great experience for you? Stay at the same hotel where it's at. I stay pretty much on top of it. I'm like right next door. Okay. That's the other the other one because I think every time I try to book a room, they're all gone. Damn. That's right. They're, they're like capacity every year. Yeah. You know, usually you wonder with the mainstream in a hopefully can they even grow? Yeah. I'm saying they can grill. I'm my argument would be is clearly, the demand is there. And with this new mainstream push. Wonder if they've ever thought about moving it out into a bigger hotel or something like that. Yeah, that will be that's what I'm saying, like, I don't know. It seems like it's bursting at the seams in this current venue in, if they want it to expand this, that's going to tell tremendous change like complete relocating. I'm sure it's the logistics the logistics of that. Oh, saying, do you have other stuff that you, you can sell besides Godzilla? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I do I do comic cons, allot then. That's. That's two points. I do think design a toy show. So I'm trying to I'm trying to integrate more three three D printed stuff, toys into what I'm selling so little by little. I introduce a new a new three D printed, bust of marvel DC characters or something original something just something. And if I made it if I is Toya that's actually produced by toy company. I if I could have that on my team while it's rather have that as. Yeah, I do a lot of art, not just going to I'll do whatever whatever interests me like mobile, usually, the villains of the monstrous characters from marvel DC, old Hollywood movies, the flank that have a lot of that stuff, sort of doing stickers. Little silly little impulse buys. I, I was gonna ask, how do you how well do you do at other tons? Pretty good pretty good New York come comes always great. That's just wonderful show. So you're always making money off of these things. I, sometimes I have terrible show. Really? Sometimes the just f- is show. I've never done before. It's always a gamble. I don't office if it's going to be my thing. It's never the case. We're I'll be exhibited in people that come over and see my work will look at it, and they love it response. Always good. But people don't know who I am, really not coming there to seamy. The they stumble upon me on a see pope. They stumble upon double, and then from there, they like me. So I get a lot of that, like people come back, two years later and say, I remember last year. You work is fantastic in a lot of that. That's why pays to be there because they remember you. If you read enough your memorable they come back looking for it. But if you're not there in the first place than general number that opportunity, right? But I definitely don't have that name recognition, where people coming for me in lining up for me because that's not happening yet. But I'm working on that, God Shiva. You have like a specific strategy that your phone or mine, that was okay. This on. Goodman. Do you have a Zik strategy for each con that you go to like, I'm going to bring this? I'm going to be Godzilla heavy here. I'm going to be marble, heavy here. Do you just bring the same stuff to everything? I try try to try to minimize it. Well for one thing, it's like how much can I possibly carry a lot of time if I'm getting on a plane. I can only carry so much so I gotta keep stuff to a minimum but yeah, I mean I have a banner that just for g fest, 'cause it's got Zillow related than I have a banner that just come on because it's got the mall in DC guys on it. But for the most part, I guess I've to portfolio books and I've been bringing them both. Basically, if you're at a comic con show this always got elephant fan. And if e- nephew Godzilla show, this, this, stole a comic book fan. So if you just put it all out that you'd be surprised what people like and what they'll buy and. Yeah. Just show showing what you got happy to look through it. I mean I sell the weirdest stuff that stuff that I think wouldn't sell cells in the stuff that I think would sell like hockey at some shows. No one even looks at it, and then the next show, that's what moves you can never predict. But do you notice that there's always God's Ella fans at every kind you go to villa stuff sells really well at at a new comic because most people don't have that I was just say rare. One popular so more and more starting to appear, but no one has no one has a gun for you. Like I do at Comecon Neo Comecon. They don't so I do get people coming over like a we heard somebody's over here in a lot of Godzilla stuff and let wink bought like twenty prints from me. Oh, jeez. That's awesome. That's what they're for, you know, and people like that I do obscure ones the ones that don't get love. Usually. Yeah, right. 'cause then, then that makes it more unique, especially I can't again you've you mentioned being more popular, but I can't imagine people are going to go to a con a New York, not, not gone silicon it's find a an Origo or you know. Gear on from camera, you know, who's drawn that you are exactly. If they are drawing, it, they're not doing the way, I'm doing no one's doing the way you're doing, hyper realistic three d sculpture of it. So. Yeah. So even if they are doing it, I still stand out or try that's where I felt very comfortable doing. These shows the first place. I really felt like I come up with a look in style. It doesn't look like everybody else in the room. I was that could shoot me in the foot or the could really help. And sometimes it does. Sometimes it doesn't. But I've never had anyone like just dismiss my work. They always whether it's their thing or not. They always have this look on their face. Like what the hell of my looking at this? Interesting. Well, I can't believe how do you do this? That, that's the reaction. I have because I don't know shit about art is when I look at your work, the first time I go wait. He does this, this isn't a team of animators doing exactly he's just doing this what how. How long does it take you typical project? I can do I can get one done from beginning to end in a day. Holy shit. If you know if I have company hours of the day, it'll take the last piece, I did was the Batman who laughs, like my Linney suggests that I do cause us cooler. So I did it and I started like nine AM and by six hours done with it. But then I have to you have to render that's when the rendering process starts, and the. My computer crash, so I couldn't do it morning. I woke up and rented, it literally rented a printers that, that after noon, gut the made in the show, the next day, basically twenty four hours was done. Oh, sure getting forgetting to end. But it was just a bus. It was not. It was not a full body. Full bodies. Go go on and on translate. If the full king Dora would take me. It's gonna take months. Oh, you just have the heads done. Right. Yeah. I just got the heads done. And I've rented out a couple of prince for the heads. But I'm gonna do the wings and the body and the tales Michelob in then you get into the scales. We're talking a long time. Are you are you looking at a picture of king Adora as you do it? Yeah. I'm looking at tons of picture. Yeah, I got them all open on a second monitor just a constantly staring at that stuff seeing with exposed to go, and before the movies out. You don't really have good reference. I'm using pictures of toys. And the skull necessarily match. What's on the screen, right? So, like, in the movies, like 'cause they're probably working on sketches through, they don't they don't have the movie stuff either. So. Oh shit. This looks more like the toy than it, does the movie stuff trailers, come out and he's getting better shots. So I have to go in and make changes. You have to screen grab. Some point I just don't care anymore. I just wanna do what I think looks good. So there's a lot of that going on. Like I am it's a struggle in my in my own head, like, do I wanted to be movie accurate or do? I want to just look will be mine. That's a little of that going on. Everything I do. I'm looking at the shin guards. All you have. How long did that take? Now that yeah. That's a Walker. Because that's super. I mean his design in the film is super detailed. Yeah. I mean, there's so much detail in that thing. That's why I really, really respect that design is weird as it is what I thought I was baffled by it. I didn't know what to think of it. But with that little beady eye and his little a giant chicken legs like he looks like drums, drumsticks of co hic. That's what his legs look like exactly. And but the more more I got into it. Why started when I started sculpting in started have to understand what I was actually sculpting. I couldn't believe how much detail was in that thing and how much how much they put into it as really pressed. So I do have a heartfelt respect for that design, but yeah. As always scoping it. I didn't I sculpted old of crazy. Mixon's Kramer zeal over my school to those by hand. I think that took me like two months. Oh my God. Ours ours at night. You know, not, not two months of twenty like twelve hour days to months of a good six or four to six hour days of just that will use. So, for instance, our project that will you just work on that. Or will you do other stuff at the same? Time. It's. Usually, I think that was that was that was something I was doing for, because it was my first g fresh show, and I was going to. And that's what I was doing for it. So I think I was just working on that. But if I have jobs, I definitely have to put in my job time, and then if I have time at the end I can do stuff for myself, will you do, for instance, like, see of jogging five jobs? Will you do one job? I get that done. Or will you start one job maybe do a couple of hours on that? And then start the other one to a couple of hours on that in the same day or how does that work? Yeah. It's a bunch of that could be spent one day on one job. Bring it to a point where I could show the client and wait for feedback, and then while I'm waiting get on the next job. But, but I think they're all the role at various stages of momentum can't I can't just start one job. And then finish it before. I start the next job, they all have to be in emotion together in different stages. So, but I very rarely do I do multiple jobs in one day, I prefer to dedicate, a full data something so I can get could shock done. And then the next day, jump onto something else. And then how many days a week? Would you say you're working on these jobs seven seven? So every day you put him sometime. Yeah. Every day I'm putting in something like when the weekends roll around I try to minimize it. So I could get out there and have some fun enjoy my life. But if I could Bank things out in the middle of the week, I will so that I can play on the weekend. I'm like, I don't really like. If I know I have too much doing Saturday Sunday those, those are these I could get a ton done. Then I'll go and have fun on Monday and Tuesday. The week doesn't weekend is not as important for. Yeah. Yeah. Like whenever I get whenever I get a break is when I get a break, it doesn't matter what we can. It's so funny that, like at least in our society. Now, fry Saturday Friday. Saturday Sunday is considered the time to play. But every day, just the day like it matter, but we, we were so structured in working normal nine to five Monday to Friday, the weekends you have off that every day is in. It's it's there's this everything's pointed towards you should have fun on the weekend. And the weekdays time to work as much as I don't want to hear to that, that old way of doing things weekend is just another two days. But the like most of my friends, though, in family, they still have to because they have to have that normal nine thing, so they're out playing on the weekends and I wanna be out playing Luican because they are. So I still kind of have to stick to whether I really do or not. I, I forget what day of the week, it is all the time, because it's not as important as it used to be. One hundred percent. I in my old job, I was working a lot of weekends. So. I would work weekends and then I'd have free on a Monday night and people, you know, obviously are working. So they wouldn't want to do anything with me. So then I would, you know, after work on Saturday or Friday or Sunday. I'd go out. I just be exhausted. This is the only time that I can go out and and be with my friends because I wanna play. So now that I have a new job and working more normal hours Monday to Friday, and it's just such a I never going into my career. I was like I don't wanna be like anyone else. I wanna do my own thing. And I wanna work the hour, I want to do something different. And now I'm like, I kind of like having this normal job. It just so funny. How things are structured so that we ever even if you like you mentioned even if you have hours that you can work, you know, the days don't matter. It's still the most society is structured in a way that they have to the fun is had on weekends. Yeah. Yeah. You kinda wanna have fun when of radials have read. It's not find yourself. Yeah. Yeah. Array you having a great term of random as Tuesday afternoon else's. I mean that's fun. Once in a while. Right. That's the only time you can do it. Absolute can get real real lonely. That's if that's your fun. But I mean, I'm happy for you, though. Because as you mentioned, I mean, even just when we last spoke it as far as podcasts, you, you weren't doing, you weren't doing this fulltime, right. I don't think so. I know I was just getting, like good jobs, but I still I still getting the photo retouching work too. The last last gig, I was doing for photo retouching. I saw. Was working with a client. I was getting the same job year. You know it was a big job. And I always look forward to it, it was a high profile job to and. One year. I haven't heard from them. It was like the ninth year in a row this year nine and I'm like, I haven't heard from these guys in a while wonder what's going on next thing online. I see I see what my job would have been that it's already done. And it's being advertised ready. Like, hey, I didn't do this have I been fired. Basically let go without being told and I found out by just encountering it online. It's kinda shitty. I that's when I that's when I realized, wow, that's my last good. Client, this is gonna suck if I if I don't get them back, and then little by little, I started getting more Bush work. And now I don't even want them back, like, if I ever get them back, I can tell them I can't work the haven't heard from them. They haven't heard from me, and that's we went on ways, but thank God I'm able to do what I'm doing now. Not have to rely on that more. But that was a weird way to be. Let go. Tell you that that's weird. These all sudden, oh that job. I'm supposed to work on his now out there already what the hell. But it was they were group. Hold drag race old all the drag queens. That's who the I would touch all the queen's. Oh, really? Every year for like nine years. And it was a great job. This draconian so much this so visually interesting. I would have to make them clean them all out and make them look beautiful and stuff. And, and it was fun. But it was a big big job paid. Well, when when when, when I was already looking at these, we already worked on my, my heart job. Like, oh, no. I've been fired far you've come from very touching drag queens now. Actually, what am I favor jobs? As, as retouching can get really monotonous in that job is always a lot of one that client was wonderful. I can't bad mouth them. They had absolutely every right to go and do what they did. I was under contract. They just used me, so often because they liked my work, but they did explain to me that they did what they had to do because because the photographer insisted on using his guy, here's person that was that I guess the using him again. And again, so I haven't heard from them. What's is that? What's here's here's a random question? What's the worst job you've ever had? Aside from, like pretty basic jobs did retail when I was a kid, I did work in clothing stores, like ever Pasallah really in the Levi's jeans and shit. I got I gotta tell you when I was in college, maybe even high school. I was so tempted to work at one of those retail places like an apricot be and Fitch or Hollister, and I even applied, and I thought I was a shoe in to get hired and I didn't get hired, but looking back like hearing from all my friends, I'm glad I didn't work retail because I think I would have just been board on my fucking mine. Oh my God. That's that's exact-. That's exactly what I mentioned earlier. There was jobs that I dreaded. Well, those are the jobs. Retail. It was like a boring horrible worked at Pacelle for two years, Levi's three years than diesel for two year. Indian g six months now like I'm done with, with retail and then I didn't do anything for another six months. And then I got a job, this city doing Scooby doo t shirts. Like, like in Photoshop I would Scooby doo as many devil. Funny. That's awesome. Doing the rock and stone cold, Steve Austin, AVI. A t shirt company that had the licenses all these things that would just do that all day. Really, you hate it. I hate it was so corporate. So, like I just felt like an under appreciated cog in a machine, but I learned a lot, and I was only there for a year, but I did learn a lot, and I brought in all my friends. So that was the only kept me sane, because I got the mole jobs there, too. We all like, like a fun, even with them being there. It's still job. You made the best of it, but I learned a lot, and then after that, that's when I got the studios retouching job and I love that job. I stayed there for decades. Yeah. That was great. I was gonna ask when you got out of school Z brush, probably didn't wasn't even radar. So what, what did you wanna do? I want to be an illustrator. I mean, three D modeling wasn't even thing, right? For years. It wasn't a thing until I graduated college. In ninety five get into zebra until twenty thirteen and the middle that thank God. I found retouching because I would have been miserable. Bastos. Rolling. Folding jeans, and dealing with people like a grown man folding jeans, all angry shifts. But still, I wanted to wanted to be an illustrator, and that wasn't really working out for me. It wasn't wasn't really good of illustrative compared to what I'm doing now. That's why I said, zebra turn my artwork to what actually in my mind. I saw myself doing in my illustration. I couldn't hold off zebra Schnell. I can pull it off. Yeah. It's a way better. So it's really, really helped, but yeah, and I mean, I got some jobs even doing illustration but nothing nothing a professional caliber. The, you know, with sustain a good living. Can you imagine if you were just this forty year old man at Hollister like Aeropostal that for what the hell? I want to say they open remember, they open the Hollis store in Manhattan. And the only employee's shirtless. They all to walk around with shirt off with their eggs out and I'm like, oh, my God. This is insane retired. I wouldn't they nobody had any clothes on. It was crazy. It was funny. When I went back to recruit, I was like, maybe twenty five twenty six when in with my friend, just just for shits and giggles to just walk around in there. So we walked into might be emitted Abercrombie Hollister, one of the two we walked around and they're just like this is funny because these clothes are clearly for high schoolers we're walking around here and we walked around and the girl that was wearing their approached us. And we're both Asian, so we look a little younger and she goes, you guys are like good looking guys. I'd like you guys to think about becoming models for us. And when they say models, it means just you work for the store. It's not like you're actually becoming models. I was just hold. You. I am. I'm twenty seven years old. I'm not gonna work. Still love to hear. It was fantastic. But it was almost like redemption, because they rejected me when I was actually of the age where I wanted to work there. And then looking back, I came six years later. Who's gonna who's gonna turn their job down? I'm going to be a model now. It's just a stupid name for someone who's not wearing a shirt, but folding their clo. Right. It's exactly that it's you are in the front of the house folding. The clothes and saying. Yeah. Looking really good. You know, getting minimum wage then minimum wages was shit. Oh, I bet it's, it's either you're a model or you run the store like you're a manager or you are in the back, which is the worst. Well, that's just I did all of those things I was in the front for awhile. And that I did I did you know, back back stockroom stuff 'cause I got sick of doing the front in. It's like after while I'm sick of it. All I want nothing to do with this. I'm squandering my skills folding jeans, because I knew I was an artist and I wanted to be creative, and this wasn't. But you know what struck me it was like got discounts on clothes. That's I like the close shit. I can't afford these genes. What's the this employee discount? Can I get an application? That's literally how I got my first job at era Pacelle, they had pants in the window that I wanted. I couldn't afford them, which is funny is they were forty dollars thought at the time I thought that was a lot of money. Sure. I bet it was at the time. I kinda yeah. Kind of especially compared to now where genes are like they could be three hundred which is absurd, but forty dollars at the time I guess that was like nineteen eighty eight. Ream boina. Eighty seven. Eighty seven born in any seven. Yeah. I was I was as a joke. I said, what you were toddling won't actually won't even hardly. You're still an infant. I was I was very small. I was born in born the day after Christmas, December twenty six nineteen eighty but yeah, I, I was probably, yeah. It wasn't. I was probably not even coherent nothing like basically just baby. Vegetable, you guys celebrate Christmas. We do. Yeah. So is that kind of a letdown when your birthday got all jammed up Christmas, so they consider it one thing. So do you actually have the big party next? There's been an evolution to this as a child, since I'm an only child Christmas was my favorite because I would get Christmas presents and birthday presents. I'd get double. So it felt like Christmas was my my jam. It's split it in half con-. Yeah. They give me both. So it wasn't like a some people are like oh, so you would just get one gift like no, I would get both out get an birthday and every Christmas. They would also bring out a cake and it'd be my birthday. This is the most. Amazing thing ever. But now as I've gotten older, I don't get gifts. Obviously other than from either a significant other close friend or something like that are apparent but I don't really get any gifts. I wanna go out on my birthday and no one wants to go out because it's the day after Christmas. So it's going to go out that day, and then the thing is, too, is it's book ended with Christmas. And then the next big thing that everyone goes out for his New Year's. Literally, there's no time to celebrate my birthday. So now I'm like, gypped and I hate it. A feeling I still enjoy having my birthday today, because it's fun like it's funny to be like, oh, I always joke around Jesus came first, and then me second. And I choke around that Christmas day is Tony's eve and that my birthdays, Tony miss. But. Mass to miss whatever. But there is a feeling of man. There's really no time to actually celebrate my birthday anymore like right after Christmas my mom's worth as the twenty eighth. It's like say. And but yeah, yeah. And I to be honest birthday definitely gets lost. The man in, you know, we try to squeeze in happy birthday, while we're over his celebrating the Christmas. She, she definitely has gotten shift out of many celery. She doesn't care. Yeah. I that would've bugged me if that happened to me it's been a interesting of Lucien, because I said, as a kid loved it as an adult, it's been like that sucks. All the people who's birthdays around September eleventh. I have. So one of my old bosses birthdays on September eleventh. And that's always, so you're. And anything I mean September eleventh is yeah that's that's horrible horrible, horrible day. You kind of old like an adult and you're, they were September eleventh. It was just a regular day up until until two thousand. Like so if you having fun, your birthday from that point flowing, you would never having fun and your. But again, it's always going to be this weird thing where even if you like say your birthday September eleventh, people are just like, oh, that sucks. They look at you like you're dick, right? Why did you pick that? Yeah. Pick it. It's the day it just a day. That's forever memorialize as day that sucks, man. Well, we are coming up on what like you're an hour. Forty five. So we're we've been going for a bit. Before you go is there anything you want to plug or talk about? Yeah. This so much to talk about. But I can't say any of it have to say the only thing I could say is coming up on g fest, though. Anybody planning to go to g Festa keep an eye out in Chicago? Yeah. We over there after that. Your Comecon Comecon checked our spec this enough over. So we got a minute have random toys coming out, keep I can't really say who's making them working with them with I do have a bunch of toys coming out with other toy companies. Hopefully another X, plus I'll keep you posted on, and I have awesome things going on that I just can't talk about so hopefully, one of these, I will. So that's where can people find you? Dope dope on Twitter and Instagram. And the euro, zeros froze, make sure you say that somebody somebody else took it. I. An art station on. Art station along DVR at all. Just always looked for dope anyway. And if anyone and everyone wants to reach out to you for commissions is, is the right way. So you get home. It's how you do it. Okay, cool. I'm always Moe's happy to hear what you have in mind. I can't always take the commission. But if it's interesting enough, or I can, if I have the time I will always say, perfect very interesting commission. So that's for sure cool. Cool. Hey, man. I appreciate you taking the time to Chit chat with me for a little under two hours here represent man. Now, this is Cole Kuhlman. Thanks, considering that. Of course men course, you're cool guy. Well, I'll see soon. This is a danger entertainment podcast. Entertainment dot net's being entertained podcast. Then welcome the Pfister nerd podcast. I'm Sean in. Did you know you could find us on the danger entertainment network danger danger? That's really something. It is. It's a tad bit dangerous. It'd be shocked to find that out. There's a bunch of great podcast you could find. There are friends from history of ideas podcast, the what now sought to no. They were there are bunch of other great podcasts, you could find there, along with us. We're the fist Berkner podcast, pop culture and chili cheese dogs and whatever else votes are check us out for sure. For sure. We're, we're on most pod catchers. So give us a war peace.

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