PGA Tour Begins New Driver Testing Protocol This Week | Part 2 of 2 With Abraham Ancer


And welcome back to fully equipped. This is temporary truce back off joined by Jonathan Wolf from both DOT com. Jonathan had a week off last week. How how you doing but beyond I'm recharged but a lot went on the phone. We were only agree how and yeah I mean I was dodging hurricanes. I think you were riding rides at Disney. Ryan's riding rides with the kids at Disney up how that go L. Bedtime good week off. You know actually I I would venture to say that it was probably the best Disney experience ever because of the hurricane right off the first couple of days literally. We wrote some of the rides four or five times in a row. Oh without having to get off. I always yeah it was so cool I mean just just not a lot of people you could kind of walk into whatever you wanted it was it was awesome. The kids love it but now they're going going to think that every time you go to Disney that you're gonNA supposed to ride teen rides and see all the princes. It's GonNa be that easy which is like shooting sixty seven and then he show up the next day and that doesn't quite go according to plan exactly yeah so for all your listeners out there we are face to face this week and actually Jonathan's living room amazingly It's a it's kind of funny. We've recorded these podcasts. We've been in a utility closet in Dallas. I've been in car in Beverly Hills. I think you've been in your car off the side of the car on the side of on the side of the road recording You've been podcast studio in Scottsdale little bit everything right i. I think this just goes to show you that that we we never are are in one place for very long. Yeah traveling always always trying to find the answers for you. Folks out there when it comes to golf gear so What do we have on TAP for today. Let's dive right into the PG two hundred going on last week the week right so you've got the tour introducing goosing driver testing protocols this was not for public consumption. I got the memo actually from. PGA Tour player got to figure out what this all means. There is a lot got to unpack with with this new testing Tommy Flea who had going back to mutter that is candy in Finnish picked up off Ebay You've got a funny the story about the way that you work with guys when you when you're doing putter testings fittings I. I think that's definitely something we WanNa talk about the week. Calloway's new MAC MAC daddy five jaws wedge as recording this on Tuesday has just released discussed that a little bit couple listener questions then give you a chance to remember a the mentor somebody that that's near you that that passed here recently so should be a packed episode today. Yes a lot to unpack as you said and man. We picked a bad week to take the week off. We probably could have loaded up content for a few pods based off of everything. That's happened in the last ten days in the equipment world but let's start off with the new testing protocols. what what do you have for us there yeah so let's let's. Kinda start with with what's gone on in the last couple the months for years the PGA tour would allow the USDA to come on site at random events probably not that random throughout the year and they were allowed to go through the equipment trucks and test. The driver heads that were on the trucks. sounds like the US was doing a lot but but really they're just testing heads that are we're on a truck. These are not heads that are in play at that moment so you really can't get a full picture of what exactly is going on in terms of of CT eighteen that's characteristic time which now a lot of people who weren't aware of what characteristic time in the Spring Lake effect off the driver face they know what it is now because of what happened at the open championships. Andrew Shaw Flea was the first one he came out and in kind of called the Arna out initially backtracked a little bit after he cooled down but you know they tested his driver while he was over there for the open championship in it came back as non-conforming it was just too hot that was too hot by one point and when we're talking about microseconds here you know it doesn't take a lot if the machines are calibrated the same way you know you you could could run into a situation where you have a driver that might be conforming on one machine but hot in illegal on another so as you and I discussed on previous pods. It opens up Pandora's box right now. We're in a situation where people know that. Some of these drivers are not conforming. They WANNA know if players onto our using conformed drafts I think players that are out there want to know if the if the guys that they're competing against are using non-conforming drivers so a memo was created by the PG to a release release two players again not Republican suction but I picked us up from PJ player was nice enough to give it to me the Bj tour is going to be putting in place place new driver testing protocol now. This is just for the drivers what they're going to be doing is they're going to have each manufacturers. GonNa have one appoint a representative. I'M GONNA assume zoom that it's going to be their their head to Rep. WHO's GonNa be that point guy. WHO's GonNa be on site. WHO's GONNA be there for for testing and also oh you're gonNA have the player involved. Who's going to have his driver? Tests now. Were instead of testing drivers on the truck. We're going to test drivers that the guys are using week-to-week. This'll be happening this week starting at the green bar in. Oh by the way this is something that you voluntarily half do so if you're playing the tournament if they come in they knock on your door and they ask is your driver. You've got to give it to him. So what does this testing involved so they're going to test the CIT on these drivers there three colors that you're going to be given depending on what they find out. Greens clubs conforming yellow means. It's still conforming but it's close and red means that it's non-conforming you. GotTa pull it out of play. That's Kinda the gist of what we're looking at here but there's a lot of questions that I asked him one of them is. They said that they're going to test. These drivers win in the players are on site now. Not everybody gets outside on a Monday what happens if they say. WanNa Test Johnson striper and he doesn't show up to Wednesday and they just randomly show up and say hey give us your driver and it comes out as being read. He's been using it for a while. No testing and driver on a Wednesday leaves almost no time to work with the backup driver. Most of these players have backup drivers. Some of them have backups to their backups. but bottom line is there's a reason why the gamers in play because they have one hundred percent confidence in that Gamer the amount of difference between their Gamer and they're backup episode miniscule especially to the average golfer out there but to the to the guys that are competing. There's a reason that that game play asking that player to switch to their backup backup literally the night before the the first event are the first round of the event that it's going to be very unsettling to a lot of players so then as you just as mentioned then how do you do this. Do you test them on Mondays well. I'd say sixty percent of the field is available on Monday right is travel day. A lot of the big names going to be showing on Monday to it to tournament so so d- do it on Tuesday. I mean there there. There's a whole I mean. I'd be very interested to know how they're we're GONNA have. They're going to execute this from from the logistics part of this but then national get into here just a little bit exactly what is the protocol that they're using. I I think the most amount of transparency that they can provide will definitely set the equipment companies as well as the players at ease and I think it it also you know to to the to the golf fans out there that are interested in the sort of thing the most amount of transparency that they can provide is going to it's a good look for them as they're going as they're navigating through all these equipment issues with conforming non-conforming equipment it is it is a good look. I think that this is a step in the right direction listen. I'm surprised I'm surprised at the. PGA Tour is doing this. I honestly thought that win the whole issue with the R. N. A. N. Zander a couple other players issues drivers failed at the open championship. I kind of figured this was a one and done. The two were just kind of. Let it die. You know twenty four hour news cycle. Just move on but listen. They're you and I talked about this off air. There are some things that that I think are red flags here for this whole process you know again yes there. This is a good start but you're only testing select players in. Here's here's something that stuck out to me when I was reading this says tests all the testing program will test the clubs in use by the players on the PGA tour out of necessity. It is important to note that the focus of the program is not on the individual player but rather on ensuring conformity of each club model and type throughout the season as such selection of players to be tested will be primarily based on driver usage via Daryl survey in order to test a thorough sample of clubs in use on the PGA tour now that to me doesn't say that they're going to be testing everybody. That's not random. No that means that they're are going to be testing the ones that have the most usage which is callaway Taylormade titleist who is now started to move up. I mean they've been tops. The driver uses jet. Tour events is previous season. So what we're saying here is that is that Scotland has never getting tested number. One is using a driver which is not as is widely used out on the tour and he's you know towards the lower end of driving distance ranks so what this means is that if you're calloway where tailor-made player player who hits the ball a long ways. Your driver's probably going to be tested pretty frequently. I'm not sure if that checks the random box in my book I mean I don't think it does look out of the top ten players right now on the official world golf rankings only two of them rice into Shambo Cobra driver. Justin Rose Hama driver. Everybody else is either using Taylormade callaway titleist so I think there's a pretty pretty good chance that if you're using one of those drivers you're going to get. You're going to get asked to have your driver tested this year again this to me does not seem random they they say that again and this is something else that that kind of bothers me. They're going to be doing the testing. Were only the player and the representative are going to know the results. I think this should be like Nascar in like every other sport. If if a guy on tour has a hot driver just it should it should be out there in the recent years. Here's the reason why I don't think that I don't think that it's it's good to call player cheap but I think if you start having the same guy with hot drivers I think maybe it starts to scare some of those guys that are are trying to see how close they can get to the limit. You know if you've got a green driver and I thought it was funny. Somebody mentioned this on social media. They said if you have a green driver something that's conforming not kind of bumping up close to that to that US GAAP limit they said you should go back to the truck and get a yellow hello. I want an orange one I wanted I wanted orange. You know like an orange light. I want I want. I want an orange or something. That's yellow trending towards read right right. I mean and look I mean the difference between a green and yellow driver maybe is is yard or two but I think we're talking to her players players and from talking to two reps it's kind of the placebo effect yet shot if even if his driver is bumping up to the US j-league limit if they feel like they have an advantage that may be another guy doesn't in its legal they're gonNA. They're gonNA jump out anyway the fact that they're doing driver usage though based off Daryl survey and not just randomly pulling drivers and that they're not gonNA be releasing these results so we'll never know but but Kinda like this whole situation was Andrew in the Ra. I wonder if I wonder if these results are gonNA leak out if somebody has a couple of drivers at fail and it gets around I mean word gets out out on the PGA. Tour Chair does it. It certainly does so it. You know you may be here about this throughout the year but I'll be curious to see how often they're doing these tests because they said it's going to be at just select tournaments. Mrs Kind of my hope is that this is the start of something bigger and that they they eventually go to testing all drivers. I think they need to do this. something again that also doesn't really sit with me. Is they said that all clubs that are. GonNa be assist to have serial numbers recorded. I know from a fact talking to wraps that. That's not the case that not all the drivers. PG To have serial numbers so that's GonNa have after to change there. There are a lot of things that give me pause but I think at the end of the day the fact that they have driver testing now the PGA tour in it's not just just the USGS coming onsite three or four times a year and testing heads that are never being used by the players. I think it's a step in the right direction. I understand the serial number requirement you know with with all all these folks. The difference between their Gamer and they're backup is almost non discernible to the naked eye. They're built with the exact same components. They're built the exact same way to the same specs backs what would stop a player from giving their backup driver as their Gamer when they're gamers actually their backup and that way they can kind of circumvent the test this game of honor but Ryan bring up a great point here that I mean you could do that if you didn't if you didn't have a serial number so I understand Dan the reason for the serial number but then that goes back to the point you just made. which is you know? There are some drivers being played out there without them so does that mean that a hey. Dr Without a serial number by default as non-conforming now. We'll have to see one thing that I I would bring up about. This is once again into that transparency. How how many machines are they using. Are they using the same machines week after week. How many tests they run. Do they run multiple tests into they average the test or do they take the maximum. CT over the multiple tests that have been run. I think it'd be a smart move for the arena and the USDA and the PGA tour everybody involved in this to actually you know specify what they're testing protocols are. I think it will set a lot of people at ease and and and make them understand that you know there that this isn't and something that the results that are derived from these tests know that there's any room for discussion so to speak in once again full transparency Ansi in this especially with the dollars at stake in the way that these players you know the way that they have to navigate these these equipment. Lebanon rules these days. I think it will go a long ways to be as transparent as possible. I hope so something else just kind of going through the memo again it said that each test. I will take approximately fifteen minutes conducted by a member of the US g equipment standard staff and performed on a pendulum device in accordance with published us. She test protocols recalls but again it goes back to you know the manufacturers aren't GonNa have access to this to this device. They're going to have access to their own and as we found out ZANDER's driver his driver was conforming on Calloway's machine right but when they tested it on the Arnaiz machine it was flagged so so again there are a lot of hurdles that are going to have to be cleared here again. I think the biggest one here is if you're GONNA be testing on non-competition days. How exactly did you do that at this is what worries me because I and I hope I hope the PG to Rehearse Jeff considered this because you can't can't tested guys driver on a Tuesday and expect victim to in twenty four hours. Maybe a little bit more than twenty four hours finding new driver we you guys have backups backups of the backup but we know they don't feel the same. I remember store years ago. Kenny Perry had an atoms driver that he absolutely loved airline broke and this was a driver that he was nails with. They built them the exact same driver everything down to down to the Graham. Nanny put into his hands and he hit it in. He doesn't feel the same right. You know again it. Whether it's a placebo effect or or what you know the Gamer drivers the Gamer driver for reason and and so when you give a guy short window to find a new driver especially when you're talking about not really randomly picking players you know picking picking base off at usage. It's a it's a slippery slope. You know getting into the other topic we mentioned at the the front end of the of the pod a Let's get into Tommy Fleetwood sputter this you know I'm a potter guy and you know interestingly enough. we'll have part two to Abraham Answers interview later on in the podcast and one of the questions I asked him towards the end of our interview was have you ever picked up or used a Oh shot putter well here we go and actually I know and this was actually really cool because you know I think we've heard the stories about players struggling potter just getting sick and tired of using whatever's in their Kerber tation driving to a random golf shop picking up I think the Oregon that that first six out to me is Jim furic when the Fedex Cup with with a with a yes putter when he was in Boston went to a random like discount pro golf shop Hicks up this yes potter in in ends up winning the Fedex Cup. It's the PADRAS thirty nine bucks him and undone and return. Mo- ejected pretty pretty good return. Yeah I would I would say is probably the best return ever but but yeah but yes so yeah. I remember the one thing about it. That fewer talked about was had a nick in topline intellectually the Nick Lachey. You'd like the way the Nick unbelievable for for alignment in so you know it's it's again what whatever works up. fleetwood actually didn't go out and find this putters caddied it infamous which I love you in great guy he in this. This is a cool story he he wanted to get the putter that Lee would used growing up as a as a kid in this odyssey defects to Bob Way. It's got a really interesting look to it with you and I both pointed out that the neck on this putter is not got your Standard Odyssey to ball blatantness definitely a Frankenstein job yeah. It's it's it's kind of a little of a slant neck with. It looks like a twist. Almost I posted photos up on on my social media. Jonathan are wall on on twitter. I took photos this putter back at Riviera win. Flea would would use it briefly used it a pebble beach but but so finish to try and find this putter for for his boss he went on Ebay picked it up for I for one hundred and nine dollars which initially when I was looking at him like one hundred nine bucks potter that that the the PGA Equipment Guide says has a resell value Allie of about thirty nine bucks even less than that for beat up once again this one. This one's got a pretty custom neck but he he buys his putter flea would re shafts. It regroups it not to get into the sharpie line yeah. This is the best part so on top of this potter. It's got it's got your unmistakable ccable white two white circles the two ball design and and finishes with a Sharpie drew a line in alignment line on the Tom believe which is so great and he does not like this is the crispus sharpie line you've ever seen and now it's pretty. It's pretty damn good. I'm going to say that it's it's pretty it's pretty damn good but but definitely not straight. fleetwood uses it briefly. puts it back in the bag. I believe leave that was in Switzerland and was just last week and in pots. I mean pretty much lights out for the first round with twenty one points. I mean money one pot when he what's what is that like to do that but again. It's I think it's a great story because it just goes to show you that that these players sometimes when you're struggling with the Potter in fleet was had a lot of success with that Odyssey white hot pro number three that he had been using before going to this tube laid. It just goes to show you that sometimes tim and I'm want you to get into this a little bit going back to something that you loved as a kid or you know. Maybe that you played in college legit. You had a lot of success with sometimes. It makes a lot of sense to go back to that model whatever it is. It's like it just kind of rekindle something in you. Just start putting better yeah and so so whenever you're getting fit for golf clubs you know one of the first things that should take place in the beginning of that process is an interview in a good club. Fitter is is going to ask you a lot of questions about your game about your current equipment. One of the questions that I always ask folks at the beginning putter fittings is looking back over your career here. Is there a putter that you've had that you performed exceptionally well with or that. You loved in especially when I've worked in. I had an opportunity opportunity to work with tour players. The interesting thing about that is is that I always start off testing. They're Gamer and then the second putter hotter than I'll test is a putter that is in a very similar design concept to that putter that they had a preference for back in the day. Whether it be no I I get the L. Ask that question to a lot of players and they'll they'll mention a zebra putter and then we'll go to a zebra style putter right so like a one of those mallets that has lines you know running alignment eight lines are running down the center of the club head making sure that the Hazel in next our similar as well. It's not just the head shape. It's also making sure that the to- hang the offset the next aisle all that all those features are similar but you know it's a chicken and egg. I conversation I think to some degree is that because it brings back confidence is it because it inspires confidence in a placebo thing what I've noticed does that the stroke dynamics actually change and the way the players release pattern the way that they make a putting stroke. That's really and so this is really interesting because I would. I ever you gotTA. Stop that that so chain in. It's kind of it's kind of made me think that that that type of putter that somebody putted with especially in their developmental two years playing the game the first four or five six years that they were playing especially as junior golfers do they start to groove patterns in their stroke into their stroke best upon the tools that they're using an based on what I've seen over the last you know ten years fitting golf clubs especially with elite players. There's I would say that. There's definitely something to that if somebody's using a mallet head with thirty degrees of toe hang in a special oh you know type of a single shaft bender what have you and we go back into that type of potter the interesting thing about it is that they're all of their stroke dynamics about the way that they make. They're putting stroke change for the better whether club faces coming in more square more consistently. They're getting you know better faced a path numbers their deviations are tighter so it's something we're thinking about. If you're struggling with your putter out there you know a lot US gravitate away from the putter that we've used for for many years because you almost don't think that it works after a while yeah you you miss a few pots and you start losing some confidence and breath and so the first thing that we do I think as players as we don't want to take ownership that are putting stroke or a brain and we WANNA blame it on the tool and so we changed the tool in the very first pod that we did. We asked Charles that question. What's the one one piece of equipment you wish that you probably hadn't changed and and you know Charles said it was. I wish I'd never changed my putter and so played against him. You've you've been said before. He was the most amazing putter you've ever seen when he was in high high school in 'em through his collegiate years so food for thought for all your you listeners out there if you do struggle with putting maybe trying in something that is in line with the putter that you used when you put it your best. You know even going back fifteen twenty years. It's definitely something we're thinking about. I think that there's some merit to the idea of it being a confidence factor and there's also a lot of merit to the fact that the stroke dynamics the way that you make putting stroke actually started to develop around that around that tool so Maybe we'll see a rush on on Ebay putters coming here soon so seriously I gotta look because being off the grid. I didn't even bother to take a peek and see but you'd have to think that that that to play if there's someone even if the price had I'd love to know how many pro shop putters in usage out on tour which brings me to my one of my favorite stories ever the great question would office are picking he can apply around bags and seeing I mean Gosh Change putter soft on PG tour. It's tough to keep tabs on everybody but there's just so I asked you this before. We started recording and I've never heard this story. I can't believe leave it so mark Calcavecchia. This is a story from back in the eighties. This was confirmed by the fellow that used to caddy for him. I can't recall exactly what style potter was. I I want to say it was a ping but he struggled with putting for a little while and picked up a golf shot putter messed around with it a little bit and this was actually down at around around my neck of the woods and he didn't he decided he wasn't GonNa put that putter and play but he was building confidence with it and he had his game and he went out and putted it horribly with his Gamer and he knew that if he kept gamer around in its condition that he would probably gravitate back to it as we've mentioned tour players tend to gravitate back towards the putter works so in order to make sure that he never switched back to his putter he tied the Putter to back act bumper of his car and he dragged it at the time the tour used to go from Durell up to the Honda classic they would go from from basically Miami to Fort Lauderdale. Oh and he dragged the putter behind his car. Oh my on the Florida turnpike don't give over got pulled over dragon his putter behind them and and the as the story goes the police officer you know was asked a question about why he was dragging putter behind his car and anyway answer that I don't know I don't know what the answer is. All I know is is. It's one of my favorite story. Sorry officer haven't misbehaving putter in yeah my putter so so needless to say that twitter never made it back in play but how it is one of my favorite stories and you know obviously the next week the pro shop putter went and play so it's one of my favorite stories about pro shop putters but I I wonder how many of our listeners have ever dragged a putter behind their car after missing a few important parts. I know I probably wanted to obviously you give you give me ideas now. The next the next time my putter misbehaves I'm just going to tie it to the back of my bumper and dragged along and see if that helps at all the Tigers putter has a bunch of bummed egg knicks bumps and I think it'd be dragged. If you drive your putter behind your car you might have a few more than Tigers Newport all right so so you know. Calloway has a new wedge coming out here Let's get into that and what are you. What what can you tell us about the new MD five jaws wench yeah I mean this. This is a wedge I if people are familiar with with Calloway's wedges I mean you don't you already know the Mac Daddy name and if if you're around for you're for awhile you probably know the Joss name as well this is this is a name that that calloway slapped on. It's ex series. jaws was as you think literally grip the golf ball sucked back lot lots of lots of bite in you know this was back in two thousand nine that they initially release this jaws groove and now with with Roger Cleveland being in charge they were totally ready to just go forward and call the new wedge the Mac Daddy five and they were in a presentation with Calcio brewer chip kind of hears about all the technology this new new groove that the they've designed and he says we gotta bring back the Joslin and it was something that that that Rodriguez I didn't even think about bringing back the jaws name with the switch so they slapped on the jaws again because of this group and this this groove is is what they're calling their most aggressive grew bits. It's right up begins the USDA legal limit what they've gone from is with Mac Daddy for you had a five degree group wall angle trying to allow people to visualize this if you look at the way that the groove kind of goes from the top in goes down to the bottom point or the group is that angle from top to where it kind of starts to angle off was a little bit more rounded with at five degrees angle still a lot of bite but maybe not as much as you could get now they're going. I went to a thirty seven degree which is razor sharp and actually actually admitted that when they took this to the machine shops they they initially told on look we. We're not GONNA do this. You've got to change some of your processes improved them because the first go around they had more than half the wedges that came off of off of the line were non-conforming because of this of this new wallow ankle so again. It's really really sharp nope. It's GonNa add eleven percent more spin which is about five hundred. RPM which the wedge I mean. It's a lot of spin this at this now this wall angles only going to be on the fifty four to sixty degrees. Because why do you need something that sharp aggressive on pitching wedge or a gap up wedge. Probably Never GonNa need much sip so that's one of the things that they're doing but but here is the process that it takes to create this new jaws group so so it takes roughly nine minutes to machine just the group. We're not talking about so for people that are familiar with with Calloway's wedges. They have a groove in group. which is these little micro grooves in the interesting? Thing is is that the those grooving grooves actually face outward our yes. I was at of innards which is different from a lot of design that brings me back to when Sergio a couple years back made that switch from his tailor-made wedges into the callaway wedges. We all know what happened to him at fifteen at Augusta suck number that it's a little bit yeah. I can't remember the score but that was a disaster. The first thing that my mind went to was wait a minute. Maybe this new groove designed that he's he's not really custom to. Maybe this is putting a little bit more spin on his shots than he's accustomed to playing with. These half wedge shots causing a little bit of that issue. I mean he goes after the golf ball yet. It gets down and he gets after yeah so with these new groups you know maybe he definitely wants to play some back pain yardages so what they were saying is. Is that it you're going to really noticed. Mrs Spite in this kind of stopping ability on on the shots from thirty to forty yards but again it takes nine minutes the machine just the groups They've got to replace the cutter the machine that's that's cutting these groups every fifteen heads. Oh Wow yeah and so that means that for the initial batch of wedges that Kelly well we just did they went through roughly fifty thousand cutters just to create this group designed. It's by far the tightest tolerances. Let's is that that Calloway's ever achieved one hundred percent of the wedges as you know. This is not going to be surprised but one hundred percent of the wedge leave the machine shop. We're going to be inspected for group Conformity Liberty Right because when you're dumping dot close to the legal limit in with something that sharpen aggressive you've gotta make sure every one of them is good to go so that's that's the big story here with this wedge is this new groove designed but they're also going to be coming out with a fifth grind option so Roger Cleveland and beginning a lot of requests for a allo bounce w grind the basically taking that wide sole w narrowing the he'll tighter fronta back radius. It's going to give you more increase for civility so if you open it up it's it's. GonNa be a little bit easier to get underneath it but if you're playing it for full shots you're you're going to be able to get all the benefits it's of that that full wide soul so this this new low bounce. W is just a complement to to the higher bounce w that they have still going to have the C. Grind which was was which was updated just a bit. You're GonNa have your ass grind. You're going to have your ex grind. comes into finishes a kind of a dark slate finish and then a a two or chrome so I I've seen him in person. I've got a couple in my closet. I'm sure you're not surprised to hear that and they. They look great but again. haven't haven't had a chance to hit him yet because the ones who semi were righty and I'm lefty so this is this is a problem that I have on a regular basis but the irony of that is so funny to okay by the way the fact that we've got one of the best gear guys in the world who gets stuff thrown at them probably weekly in it's all coming in right handed him when he can't even use it but here's the here's the funny thing. The reason why actually asked for the right handed stuff is used to take photos because I do my own photos. Just show different angles at the golf club. When I post the stories online I posted some with left handed clubs and people complained and said why why was I posting left left. The left had had a golfer. Come on but with the I decided to go back in Azariah so you're welcome. It just means that I have to wait a little bit longer to to test them but yet I'm. I'm really excited to test out this new jaaz group. If it's anything like the original it's skin a really add some some zip to the wedge and and I'm just going to go out there and probably hit thirty to forty yard. Lead shots is to see how it reacts but Yeah I want. I WANNA see how how it handles but but so far based on what I've I've heard from Roger Cleveland. It sounds like a sounds like a worthy design. I think you're going to see a lot of mountain tour yeah and and it's always been my opinion that when Roger Win over onto team callaway that the they may be of missed the mark in years past with promoting Roger Cleveland being their wedge designer. I mean we're talking about I. He's one of the one of the emir designers in the industry no and I agree and and I think they've done a much better job at least from what I've heard putting him front and center on this wedge. I think you'll see a lot more Roger Cleveland out there but I agree with you. You know when you have a guy with with his credentials yet. You want people to understand piss wedges and just being designed by a couple of of club designers in an office like you've you've got one somebody that has that has decades of credibility exactly has tried a lot of things that haven't worked knows what does for all of our listeners out there you know we we've we're we're are planning on having. Roger on the pot here in the next month or so the folks over callaway of said that they can definitely help us make that happen and would love to get him on the POD and pick his brain when it comes to wedge design obviously in collaboration with this MD Five Jaws launch just kind of find out about what he's learned through years years and years of making wedges for the best players in the world should be really interesting for our listeners out there so one more thing to him on the next thing which I think will interest people that are it's not playing a pitching wedge as part of an iron set. you know vocally has really made a name for itself in recent years by by having more players using vocal pitching wedge right. I've talked to Justin Thomas about it. He just says that it just gives them more controlled spin especially out of the rough. He really doesn't find the flyer's yet. mikey's he's used to seeing sometimes with with a pitching wedge out set. Roger pay particular attention to the shaping of the forty six forty eight fifty degree what you would consider to it'd be a pretty standard pitching wedge shrinking the head size from heel the toe so it's going to get a blend more with with an iron set for the guys use like an NBA or apex pro. You can now go in and get a Mac daddy five pitching skin. That's not going to have the same shaping as as Sandra Lob which I think that's something that if you are used the playing something other than a a stock wedge from her set it should interest people that do like Mac Daddy for you know good players. I definitely I just personally I liked the premium pitching wedge option instead of the set wedge so to speak remember going back many years ago when I was as with the folks with Taylormade this one rep recommendation I had with Brian Basil whose you know on their product team is is to consider options for forty forty six degrees which is considered the loft of pitching wedge by the older standards were still starting to see pitching wedges in the forty three degree range these days I keep getting stronger and stronger but the point here being is that for folks that like to use their pitching wedge around the Greens for a lot of chipping. They liked the flight shots from you know. Let's say a hundred ten yards you. WanNa fight one really low and in in try to hit different types of shots having something that is more in line with the the premium aftermarket wedges that you have in the rest of your bag. I think makes sense for that type of player. We're obviously talking about your more advanced player usually really that's. GonNa play that way for somebody. That's just blasting away at full swings with pitching wedges all day. It's probably best for that. Wedge to match what you have for your nine. Hundred and eight aren't as well but it's great to hear that they've one of the interesting things about those premium aftermarket pitching wedges as as you mentioned the shaping gets a little weird. Yep the size. Is You know the the blade length the size of the head the the shaping of that head going from heel to toe and the size of the head making sure that that blend seamlessly from the gap wedge into the nine iron. It's it's not easy to do so. I definitely want to get my hands on these. The the thing that I wanNA test is out of the rough at a wet conditions. Yes that's definitely where I think in when you start seeing these wedge technologies that are enhancing grooves and the stopping power is that playing into the whole bomb and Gouge ouch strategy. I think absolutely is guys are okay with missing fairways if it means that they have a half wedge shot as long as they can stop it out of the rough so looking forward to get my hands on these and tested them out seeing how they work with some of the players that we work with at Tru SPEC. I have a couple of rights for you. Tim Yeah you may have with me when we when we leave here so I think what's next on the agenda as probably some listener questions. Yep So we got. We got to this week first. This question is how often should you go through a full gabbing session gabbing session so when we're talking about a gap session that's really there are two parts of capping session. Shen one is just to be able to measure the distances. You hit each club. How should you go about doing that number. One you want to eliminate outliers so if you pull one pulled shot is due to a closed club face a closed club face will cause less loft therefore faster ball speed less spin so polls typically go longer than straight faced or square face shots so when you're doing gaping session you probably wouldn't eliminate some of the polls you probably also want to eliminate as someone pushes because just on the opposite side of the spectrum when you push shots or you know for right handed players leave shots out to the right that usually means the faces open so that may not be the best assessment of how far you're hitting that club because you have more loft on that face than he normally would with face being square so with the balls that struck online. I always like to get three or four balls with each club. That are struck solidly online. I always look at two numbers with players that we work with. I look at the average number in the maximum. I WanNa know what is the average average shot. They're gonna hit with it and then when they do have a shot that is going to a back pinna backhoe location. You WanNa play your maximum number that way. You're never hitting it over. Greens Greens are way more penalizing when you hit the ball over the green so playing that Max number two back then I think is is the best strategy strategy in most cases that you never hit over Greens and Short side yourself and then obviously you WanNa look for uniformity is far as distances so some players are a nine yard gap summer ten some eleven or twelve yard gaps. A lot of that depends upon club head speed the faster. Your club head speed the bigger gaps are going to be so if you're a slower speed player. You look at the gaps you know for. LPGA players the gaps are going to be a lot tighter than they will be for PGA tour player just because of the differences in speed so so making sure that you have uniformity in the different distances that you're hitting the the ball with each club is kind of important when you start talking about the top end of the set when you're going into two hybrids utilities long irons fairway woods it gets a little bit messy because usually get some bigger gaps up there. I'm always an advocate of making sure that your gaps are nice and tight in your wedges through your scoring clubs just because you're going to have those shots more often than you're going to have that weird two hundred and thirty thirty yard cleaner shot so but you also want to consider the course that you play if you're always playing the same golf course over and over and you have a certain par-three. That's a certain yardage. You want to make sure that you have a club that can comfortably hit it to the middle of the green from the teas that you play so what about you mentioned playing the course that you play. What about the the driving ranges. Is that your that your great whip. You're hitting off Matt's for for people that live in say Manhattan that are going to hit onto head on maps versus. This is those that are going to hit off grass. So the differences of hitting off of artificial turf as regular turf a lot depends upon the firmness of the artificial turf and what that plays into is is where the ball strikes on the face now the good news is that whatever that distance gap is that you're seeing so if you're seeing a twelve yard gap between your nine and your eight and a twelve yard gap APP between eight and seven. It's probably going to exist the same way out in the real world conditions off of grass but the overall yardages meaning your average in your Max may adjust a little bit nuts depending upon if you're getting different spin rates than you get outdoors the reason that you would get different spin rates than what you see. Outdoors is if the balls hitting higher or lower. We're on the face due to the TURF that you're heading off. The TURF is really squishy. In it allows you to Kinda hit under the ball's. GonNa hit higher on the club face and balls ause that hit higher on the club face typically have less spin. If the turf is extremely tight and very very firm. You may hit the ball lower on the club face. You know think about old club fitting days of hitting balls online boards you know when you hit balls online boards those things typically spend a lot in the reason as that the boss usually striking a little bit lower on the face balls that strike lower on the face tend to spend a little bit more so what I would say. Is that the gap from one club to the next. When you're hitting indoors versus outdoors outdoors will probably remain pretty much the same but you may see the distances shift a little bit longer or shorter depending upon your spin? I don't WanNa make generalization because if you're a low spin player and then you see indoors that you're hitting at high on the face therefore producing even less spin than your distances may actually come down and then if you're a high spin player in you see endorsed the same thing the turf conditions justify that you're hitting it higher on the face. If the spin comes down that means you're actually going to hit it further so I don't WanNa make generalization saying that you're going to hit it further or shorter but pay attention to where you're hitting it on the face when you're hitting it on you know indoor turf and if it's any different than where you normally would hit it outdoors if you're hitting it higher on the face than you would outdoors than your spins. You're going to be a little bit lower and then you have to factor that into what what is your ideal spin right for. Your club head speed to determine if that's GonNa make you longer or shorter as far as your distances but as far as overall. How often should you do right. I advise doing it every spring before you get going and also whenever you put new gear in the bag so if you've got new stuff in the bag after you've had about a month to adjust to it you know one of the things we do at Tru SPEC after after a customer buys said irons me always invite that player to come back in after they've used their irons for about a month and we gap up them the second part of the gap INC session is not just distance but it's also directional so we may say that you need to degree upright set throughout your whole bag right but maybe in the six iron you need at one degree upright. Maybe in the seven hour and you need it two and a half degrees upright. We do see some variations based upon lengthened. CG The way that players swing different clubs so part of a gaping session isn't just dialing in the lofts. It's also dialing in the lying to make sure that every ball starting online line when we're talking mentioned Lofton lie angles tour players a lot of them will almost every time they're out onto or at a at a tournament they'll get their loss in allies jacked up by the Rep. There's actually a funny story really quick about Max Homa when I talked to him. He mentioned his first. Go Round on tour. was was not a great one. I mean he missed all advocates. Let's just put it that he mentioned that he did not go in the truck at all the titles semper Sam because he did right and so he was hitting shots and he was thinking that it was him when in actuality has often often lies were off on some of his golf clubs because he was hitting pounding so many range balls override over again again it this this is just goes back to the importance of getting lofts in lives. Check to make sure that your gap and scrape to make sure that your contact is is worth supposed to be because if your clubs are a little bit off even even even a fraction that changes your impact location then you start to think that it's you. It's your golf swing win win. Maybe it's just a simple tweak. It just goes to show you how important is get a check perfect example. You know my own set when you look at now now first of all when we're adjusting thing the loft of a golf club. I never recommend for any player out there to adjust the loft more than plus or minus two degrees off of whatever the standard loft is and the reason for that this is when you adjust the loft. You're also adjusting the bounce so if you change a a club two degrees stronger you're eliminating two degrees of bounce which is going to make the club dig more for more than two degrees of bounce change on a golf club is actually going to cause a very very different experience as far as impact so don't ever change range those lost more than plus or minus two degrees of what the standard loft is for that specific product. That's one thing I definitely would say but in line with what we were just saying if you look at my own LAWF- off set up in this doesn't make any sense but in my set there's a two degree difference between my eight iron and my seven iron and there's a six six degree difference between my seven iron and my six yet when you look at the distances. I hit those clubs. It's exactly twelve yards between all three of them so sometimes it works out that you know those loft gaps are four degrees all the way through the set but a distance capping session is going to help you identify that and then it's going to help that fitter fitter. I make a little tweak here there to the Lofton. You're set what's most important at the end of the day is that you have uniform distance increments between each club. That's what's most important norton from playability aspect all right next question. How long does the driver typically last before it loses. Its pop really lose. Its pop it gets hotter. If anything we get hotter if anything it would get hotter we get this question. All the time customer gets fit. They love their driver for months later. Call Up. I think that the strivers lost some pop well. Unfortunately there's probably two things going on a the angles that you're hitting the ball have changed so maybe you're hitting two degrees up on it. Now you hitting one degree down. That sort of stuff is not going to change from day to day but it will evolve over the course of a few months so it's not like you're going to show up one day and hit two degrees up on it and then the next day you're. GonNa hit one degree down on it but over time things will shift and when we're talking about a difference of hitting up on two degrees versus down one degree that's radically different as far as you know ball striking in in in in launch on ch characteristics so what's happening. If you're noticing that your driver's Las Papas the dynamics of impact have changed enough to justify that maybe you need a slightly different loft or something's going on there that needs to be investigated and worked out the other thing. Maybe you're just not swinging Canada's fast. You're losing a pop. Maybe a little bit of pop you know so that's definitely something that you know now tour players. Uh they work on the same most tour players own their own launch monitors and they don't ask about twenty five and the reason they do it is because we do see ever so slight variations from one to the next now for the average player. They wouldn't notice a difference right but for a tour player they WANNA make sure that they're using the same measurement tool every single time bottom line here is I would probably measure your club head speed on on some sort of device running. If you notice that you're losing a little bit of Pop with your driver. Try to get back on the the exact same device and measure your speed and cedric speeds gone down. There's a chance that maybe it's gone down. A mile or two all takes a mile or two slower and that's going to be four five six seven yards down range so but the idea of it losing pop as we said if anything there's potential that it would actually increase ace increase E. T. or increase you are the idea there being that with more usage. The face of the club is is going to actually flex more as the metal fatigues you would actually get more face flushes with more flavor faction. You would get more kinetic energy transfer into the ball so it's a tough thing to test you know you and I are trying to put together a little test of our own using some of our resources to see what happens uh-huh yeah. We're trying to figure out how to how to how to see exactly what happens. After a driver's been hit a thousand times in the center of the face doesn't get hotter or does it stay the same name. I would say that it's either gonNA. Stay the same or get even just a little bit hotter so if you're losing pop it's it's not because the driver's gone bad. It's because something's somethings probably changed a new golf swing yeah a lot of good food for thought in those listener questions right there with that. Let's get to part two of our interview with Abraham Answer. He went over a lot of stuff about his gear and as you mentioned talking about his putter so let's get to it. Abraham of all of the pieces of gear in your bag right now. Is there one that you're more in love with in any other pieces their one piece that is the most important to you. Oh that is such a tough question. I truly love everything club in my bag. There's right right now. There is not one thing that would be like. I wish I could be a little bit better. I guess if I'm really picky my three would can be a little bit better out of the fairway. I mean I mean when I hit off tees absolutely perfect too so hard to find good three. Would that goes exactly how you want it off a t and the fairway in my five would I love. I not a little bit extra life. I cannot trap it in trying to hit a little bit harder so I'm not I'm not too worried about having a problem with my three word. There's not a lot of par fives are really trying to slide on the green. Stop it with my three would so I'm in. That's a tough question Russian. I love him iron planet for two and a half three years almost radical. I this unique finish on them. It's called. White Crom got obviously the mirror stamping and my low on that they look absolutely phenomenal. I wouldn't change anything my wedges. I love my wedges. I got this his four iron tailoring foreign that I that you can have a I have a pretty big big gap because I have a three iron in. I have four wedges before when I hit a cut and he goes about two ten. I get a little bit dry kind of string. A little bit harder goes up to twenty so he covers that guy perfectly my i. Why would I really hope we never breaks name. I know it's an end to the shout is getting a little bit worn out on the grind with the with the bag but man everything I really love him and it's hard to it's hard to pick just one uh I put in a fifty fifty one point five degree but it's a fifty to head Mira there are some of the new wedges music came out with and I was struggling with like forty yard bunker shot watts with with those shows pretty pretty tough but it's a high bounce Sir fifty fifty two degree that has been absolutely phenomenal the feel incredible which I mean you get with really any Muira era but he has helped me a ton on Kinda Longish a bunker shots which that's that was not the reason why I put it in there but I just tried. I was like wow so I've got a lot out of out of the bunker which I'm really excited about like I said really really all in love with my whole bag which is which which is a rare thing. Yeah definitely is easy to see why you've played so well this year. everything in the bag is working. Well and you have confidence in it the talk about putters briefly. I know earlier earlier in the year. He stopped by to spend some time with the guys over at Mira and when you did that you stopped into one of our Tru spec studios are actually our headquarters stew. That's where I was able to spend some time with you meet you when we we just spent a little bit of time on putter at the time we put on all of our machines and evaluated your putter and I know that the feedback that was given then was hey don't change change anything. What you've got is currently working. You obviously have some confidence in the numbers are really good. I know that eventually throughout the year you did make a change to the putter and I think you even changed the the answer in the in the stroke letter that you were using if you can get into a little bit about how the putter evolves throughout the year obviously that putter was so important to helping helping you finish you know where you did towards the end of the year and a few of those events just get into a little bit about putting in and by the way all of our listeners out there Abraham is an amazing putter his numbers on all of our tools were off the chart so easy to understand why he made some money parts and made so much money this year yeah putters I'm. I'm really weird man. I changed. I can go and spread that I don't touch it for a long time and sometimes that I intend to putter every week. It's it's been it's been weird. I don't know I'm not scared of a changing. I'm stretching something. I mean anything else on my bag putters. I'm really not not scared of change. I think I get excited when I liked. What a new putter in I tried and I get I gives me confidence in a way and I I get get sometimes when I put a new putter in the bag I won in Australia with a square back Scotty Cameron. that you use is that for for a long time yeah that was that was the one I think you had in the bag when you and I spent some time where the numbers were so good and I know that you went into that stroke lab at some point point here after Australian so was that was that just like an aesthetic some feel thing or was there a technical reason for that switch. No just like I said I I mean the quarter. Look look great mice. It's perfect. I I guess suicide had a couple couple of weeks in a row that I didn't. PUTT as good as I wanted to. I wanted to see something different. Sometimes when I get another another get excited in the neck and go back to my old trustee but I haven't gone back to that one and it's been a while as being like four or five months I've been using aren't said yes. It's been like I said it's been a while at the. PGA Championship I was there I came came back from a week of really putting really poorly hitting the ball really well and just not getting much outta my rounds because they didn't make any putts and I would spend some time with Joe. Tool and I'm pretty I'm really good friends with them. He's a great guy. He's out there every week. Brain knowledgeable about about putters as well and I just want to the to the truck and I was like man I need. I need something and I couldn't find anything I did was his old number five Odyssey in the backer truck just Kinda. I think it was a backup for it could've been from first networker or I don't even know I mean. I don't know who else uses that kind of account ahead Take this one to sit a couple of putts and the work perfect that week. I putted amazing her really good finish finish that week and I roller that for a while up until New York a couple of weeks ago where I finished second and I just wasn't planning that great again. I came back from from a week that I could the ball okay good enough to help make enough cuts. I grabbed a number seven. Even Odyssey probably great on the on the putting green went out and use that on the first day absolutely striped it that day I right. I don't think I could hit any any better and didn't make one PUTT and I was like Oh my God. Have you ever used shot putter in a tournament a pro shop. I've been close to but I haven't been close through so I did the New York I like. I said I ended up shooting shooting four under but I'd ship been one holdout from one hundred twenty and just I I just found a way to shoot under par without really making any thoughts actually gave that putter away to a lady that was watching the remind from Dallas. Watch minimal around to with some of my my buddies watching we play. I was like please please take this out of my hands. she took it and then Joe Oh overnight at me number five just like my gamer but with the stroke lab shop and it was just different color and a little bit the heavier head absolutely rolled it the next three days and ended up finishing second so how many how many do you have in your collection the that's a good question. I don't know I got. I got quite a few but I I don't. I'm not the guy that I just wanted like grab putter and just take home to have it like I don't WanNa be guy like I mean if I grab a letter and it's it's truly because I think is gonNA is GonNa make it to the bag or I'm gonNA WANNA use that week but yeah I have quite a few putters here in my officer Abraham. You're one of the few guys and I don't know how many of our listeners realize this but you use graphite iron shaft Mitsubishi. Ot in in your Muir irons. What led you to test out the OT graphite initially in what kind of differences is a particularly in the performance area? Are you seeing with that graphite over steel. Yeah been using them for two years now. Maybe a little bit longer. It came out and what I struggle with four was from like six hundred up I could I could get a pretty flush with using using like product X. or something like that. They were very consistent but I just I just couldn't really get the high I need to especially in the kitchen tour firm and you have a five hundred students. It's tough to get to those fans who you need. You need a little bit of a higher trajectory and I was like well. I'm going to try. I'M GONNA try. Greenwich see how it goes my buddy Roberta. Ds Houston for a little bit and that's how I can't are ain't got introduced to those sheriffs and I tried them and it was pretty automatic. How I was really impressed how consistent they were because I've tried some other graphite shafts it at six hundred ninety ninety and then I'll swing a little bit harder and be like tool five like whoa like. Can I have the You have to be really precise in this. Mitsubishi shouts they they fly like graphite but they they're very consistent like a steel shafts which I was really impressed and I haven't talked to south. I've been using it for little or two years. Your current centimeter prototype irons. You worked on getting the shaping of the soul that club just right with the team over at Mirror. What design aspects were you looking for. When you guys were working on the set of Byron's yeah well arms on the Five Dolo Fives which I'm guessing they came out they were Muir Yuqing they can line and and yeah. I mean everything about that. I actually thought I could stand up you used for a long time and the only thing that I wanted honor to change was maybe the finish because I got a little bit too shiny from like the top line. I mean that was just being extremely picky but but one thing that I really wanted to do the Dow was deleting edge. It was really really sharp which it was it was fine and really any any type of grass aspect when I got into softer very tight bent. I felt like you've dug a little bit more than than I wanted to and I got in trouble a couple of times because I felt like I had ticket in order the to not not get to like to stuck in the ground and yet so we added a little bit bill in a way like I have a night or what not not add ads extreme but other than that is the same the same head just a little different finish and leading edge is just a little bit more of a head a little bit more of a Bebel Abraham. We can't thank you enough for spending some time with us on fully equipped. Obviously you've got something big coming up on the rise in here. Presidents Cup that super exciting we look forward to watching you out on the golf course during the President's Cup and obviously getting into next year as the season gets rolling here so thank you so much for spending time with us and we I hope to see you soon and and chat with you about equipment in the near future thanks again Abraham. Thanks guys I appreciate that and that should do it for part two of of our interview with Abraham Answer special thanks to Abraham for being on the pod. It's always great to have a chance to speak to one of the PGA tour up and coming superstars that leads into a topic of conversation that I'd like to get into here regarding junior golf. Many of us get asked when all of you listeners out there purchase richest new clubs what to do with your old clubs. I always advise folks to donate those old clubs to different junior golf charities whether it be the first t where any of the junior junior golf development programs organized by the PJ of America what better than to give back to the game and make sure that kids that can't afford equipment have equipment equipment to at least be able to get them started. Maybe the equipment is not optimized for them or perfectly fit but at least gives them something to us while they're learning the fundamentals and this leads me into one last thing. I'd like to dedicate this episode to the honor of one of my mentors Charlie deluca senior affectionately known as senior. Charlie passed away yesterday at Seventy eight in Miami Florida for fifty years. Charlie led the data Amateur Golf Association eventually becoming the first t organization Organization of Miami while leading the I t program Charlie mentored and taught tens of thousands of junior offers during his fifty year career in junior golf. He's he's truly a giant in junior golf world. He also started the largest international junior golf tournament in the world the row publix junior classic many of plus who grew up in south Florida Charlie and his team of golf professionals a debt of gratitude for everything they taught us in for the passion. They instilled build inside of us so many well-known. PGA and LPGA professionals came up through the ranks of the day damage Golf Association and we are Forever Indebted Indebted to his service to the game on behalf of the thousands of junior golfers throughout the country who learned the game from you. Thank you Charlie Deluca and thank you for everything you taught us. That should do it for this episode of fully equipped. Thank you so much for tuning inning in and we look forward to bring you another episode next week

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