PT98: Learning Together: The Power of Conductors in Collaboration, Kevin Stterlin and Mathias Elmer on Building Sinfonietta Memphis as Co-Music Directors, Leading Effective Education Programs, and Performance Practice for Mozart and Beethoven
Welcome to podium time the podcast for conductors students. Sure your co music directors. Like how does how does that work when we're together it's also like a masterclass. You know i watch them. Rehearse and conduct and i to learn so much from it once. You've reached the point where you're really entering the profession on one hand. We're students for life. But at the same time once you enter the career and you do as a profession. You can't go to a masterclass Ten networks and it's kind of stupid in that regard it's always source -freshing and inspiring to get to be together and learn that way. Hi there and welcome to podium time. I'm your host. Jeremy cuevas and today we've got a very special episode and this episode was so much fun to record today. Lucchino talking with conducting duo of kevin sewer line and matheus elmer. Kevin matthews arco music directors of some phony memphis which they founded together and they still run together so today we're diving into how to conductors and very close friends can collaborate and continue to learn together. Plus we're looking at how they founded the orchestra How they create incredible engagement with their education programs and all about classical era performance practice which is what the orchestra specializes in will hear about how kevin a beer designed named after him. You may notice some slight difference in audio quality a little bit more background noise than normal in this episode Because usually we record three hundred people together on zoom me luke in the guest today we are. We are recording foreign. That just created a couple of other things. So i wasn't able to remove as much background noise as i can so there may be a little bit more but it's really not too bad as always thanks to all of our patrons patriots for supporting the show monetarily and thanks to each and every one of you for listening for now. Let's get onto the show kevin. Your camera is so high wrestle. Is it a good usually. It's not right that's i. That's probably the clearest video. I've seen on zoom in like all of us on plenty of zoom calls recently. I wonder if we just moved actually got yeah. I guess a pretty good internet. I wonder no before it always compressed it somehow matias without even knowing all in person a modest network. You're talking about this yesterday. As we were talking preparing for today thinking that you know both of you have sort of a gift to connect people bring people together through and we figured that you guys were just like montas nine and music broadus together right into a close friendship and it's just so much more fun to walk through with a wonderful friend right. Yeah absolutely. so maybe let's start there. How did how did how did you meet. And i can put the intro in earlier but while we're on it yeah how did you do connect to similarity to start we. Actually you know. Each are quite a long time now We have met the first time in eight in. Switzerland cosby studied at the same school University of lucerne are we have met for the first time and i was pursuing my masters in orchestra offer conducting. He was studying wind panel stumble conducting and he was sitting in our classes That's murray got to know each other and we already like was in the immediate connection. That will actually glanced nerve because it was a little bit of Yeah i will say like some of my colleagues or classmates for widespread snobby. I'm the best and blah blah blah blah. I couldn't stand that was having introverted over the trend clunker right. That's where we met actually up so then how it's continued that both like europe came to the united states of the microsoft thing for kevin starred with now that soul i had spent a year in the us as a foreign exchange students during high school. Actually doing my junior year in high school and fell in love with the country and with the culture and was pretty set on wanting to to come back one day to do a doctorate. The doctor conducting is that something. You actually can't do in europe. We have masters concert diploma. Whatever you know whatever not really a doctorate yet in music performance of actual practical musical subjects doctorates the are reserved for theoretical subject. So you can get a doctorate in musicology. Yeah but not really feels yet. So i came back. I was actually looking at doctoral programs. Again was two thousand ten or soul and had dritan. You know i mean how how you do it the way you do your writing one hundred emails two hundred different professors and you're looking for the right program trying to find a connection with with a good teacher and on and i was in the middle of my masters at that point in luzern. I had started my masters and was going to finish that. And then oblique come to the us for dna and it must if it feels like it was a hundred carson that i that emailed was incredible man who lived in memphis tennessee dr coochie john who ended up our being our teacher. Who within i guess. Forty forty five minutes of me sending him an e mail he called me on my phone across the atlantic crater so that failed special of from from the very beginning on it just felt like a special connection and he said well. I have an assistantship open right now. I can't promise that it would be opened next year when you're done with your masters but if you if you can do it then you can transfer and so. That's what i did for months later. I was actually the somehow. It all worked out in time with these us And it was incredibly lucky to get to study of wiccan. Because he was truly and to. The state is an amazing teacher and mentor to both of us. Well and then mattis. How did that go. I was still working for a swiss band. Music association at the time on the board of directors there and we were organizing swoop national wind band competition. Would you say his adult about the right translation. And we hired matias as one of the i think we had fifty sixty judges with a huge endeavor. Mattis was under the adjudicators and so we hadn't seen each other in a couple of years. I would say and then again that summer and Yeah i told matias about the program then it kind of went from there right So that was like really life changing So he told me kevin told me. That's our jon cooper. django Is going to open a second assistantship which never happened before there was always one Than having kind of talk. You should applied at something. You should do that as well. I will assume thirty. Five at the time Quite established ahead of its limit on orchestra to church. Choirs was a member of a professional But somehow the area that we're wanted to be this is probably a chance. That will never come back. And i remember very well after. Was two weekends competitions. Laura's those texting heaven was a sunday and then monday morning. I fly so of overnight That i will do complementaries august and will do the everything With dank horror dist- examined every take in terms of your training on omega So for instance. I can give you the meter or key like your own. Melodic dictation. just. It's the once when i was able to figure that i ask y'all everything on musical. Cast miserably fails the inlets. Because i was well. I was just caught in the school english huge. I didn't use years so as a foreigner you have to take the total test. Yeah that's new english. As a foreign language was a four hour computer based the union on the screen. Have to for our primary concern. The time goes on and they're just like random picks office. I had astrology astronomy topics. Translate an article in. I was just like way too over. Like i said ended up having a fifty three or so the united states you have to have at least eighty and then he said well without hopeful. No scholarship should gonna do still want to go to do that if i started in ten week. He was a ten week intensive in this program also in memphis same diversity and then. I read the test of the parents. That's the way. I ended up We the united states who then we actually lift together. The system passed was a great time. We were renting a little house in memphis and conductor job open at the best time together. Kind of like what you jeremy lucrative hadn't read having being able to have conversations about music in conducting forced him kevin. I'm curious where is your. Where is your study away whereas your first your first time. In america it was in a extremely rural. Part of the country in virginia was a tiny high school of three hundred fifty students. Total of very yeah and it was a big culture shock for me coming coming windows sixteen seventeen i guess in this organization last year of our black. You know the the way you are when you're sixteen seventeen years old kind of them. There's a certain. I guess arrogance you know blah blah and good music program and in the end. It really top. Perhaps the most important lesson that i was ever taught in my life and that is that it's always about the people in this about the people that you meet it's really never about the conditions around it's about the connections you make and what you make those connections the friendships and in a way new families that you build across the globe was very very grateful for experience. I got there. I'll did were you. Participating in music. At the time he s. i was singing in a choir original vocalist coolest. Kind of actually funny. Funny story right. Matches was saying i would studying in band conducting and i don't placing a wind instrument. I studied acuras as a singer. Ano- not very well. So i was gonna go to college. I went to college my first year. Or choral conducting right in europe. You can get an undergraduate degree in conducting which doesn't another topic in itself right with a shame. It is that we don't have that in the us yet. Tell was in that program and my teacher. We didn't really click when we put it that way and then she she fell ill for and had to go through treatment and during that time i was able to take lessons with someone else and the with christopher really who who than state my teacher for a long time and He is a symphonic conductor. He's conducted across the world but he was teaching in the wind department. Their concerns our then insults than able to switch into that department and ended up conducting bands and switzerland. It's really a beautiful experience as well. I learned so much from that and Young so so you guys run symphony out of memphis together and last we left off on the story. As you're you're studying together and living together when kind of the next The next bits of that story. How did it start matias data. Well i think that started pretty soon. So i'm the night arrived in memphis my first euros to fall and i think that semester already have laid out our plans for a feeling chamber orchestra ed group perform outside of school on so we had a great and carol our a directly on we were sitting in our townhouse having nice less of red wine probably more than one. They're facing off. Like what can we do. We have to do something right. And that's where it started so like we just asked our classmates friends. Local teachers put something together. And then i think in muscle over doesn't fourteen read our inauguration of cnn amendments. We already have the of projects that we like to call it. Yvonne yet amendments opening on the classical composers The the chamber Then we started off with. I think it was subaru number. One i trump concerto and don't want me orchard right now. Sure and schubert was a long truck. Were not be. That's right so that's where it started. And we we wouldn't have thought like sill exists. It has been growing ever since it's incredible that'd be able to go back all the time more than once a year usually wise year. Especially i'm like we've also like being like spread out through the country so that's it really has become a family so that what you mentioned before about About people that's really something that seems kind of i think number lines more than just in orchestra coming together. It's really a family of like friends who come travel from memphis for like rod for instance right from denver leaving or flying just to participate in our weekly orchestra rehearsals concert than academy three in europe. That will not be possible. Or if it's okay. I will participate. But what's what's what's again right. So that's something just in well. And that's very meaningful. What's your experiencing experiencing so i think that's harder. I think that. I think you're right. We think we're really lucky. In that sense that it was just an amazing group of friends might in sort of an amazing group of friends that there was no pretentiousness. Any we just wanted to learn together. And so i think especially to starting groupies shared an interest for what mafia said historically informed performance practice in exploring that further together really in a playful way. And that's just like you said has just continued to grow and in two years ago we started. We added a academy portion. Where during the summer we and and it it really is an person one but we have to change it to online this year. Of course but Where during the summer we come together for a week and a half and we guest lecturer -ticipant s- conducting portion to the academy as well but is not limited to that only and just sharing experiences and sharing guests latest research that each and everyone has done. A lot of the presenters are actually people that play with the orchestra to have have found a niche. In this historic performance practice yield end with symphony. Ed started for them and they've continued to grow grow that and cultivate that for themselves and it remains a big passion of both of ours. So when you guys do concerts your co music directors to you. Are you both like splitting a concert. One is doing concert like how does how does that. Work alastair all after that's something very unique speaks about our friendship. I think it's more than a work relationship. I mean you both know that. I mean that's two conductors. Get along quite rare share In warsaw so. I think that's something a really area memoir clarity. Because that's usually their let me. I'm now will we always share Typically have like a besides the very opening concert kind of limited to like an hour concert or one of the half mex They have usually like a concerto piece concerto and two symphonies done. We just kinda switch like one concert kevin dusty charito or an overture than we switch the next row tax. Now amazing colouration thinking so. You're not you're not. You're not standing on the podium at the same time one of you has right hand when he has rarely really Because kevin is the left upper. I would actually work up. You're like a really big tuxedo so you can still look. i think. that's so rare in our field in just like. I'm sure jeremy. And luke you appreciate each other's friendship a lot we we do the same because as much as we all wish that everyone just got along right in was truly about music and that everyone understood. It's people building bridges Bringing people together as cheesy as talent. But it's about making this world a little bit more harmonious than yeah. It's not that way for everyone. Unfortunately and so. I think we all have stories of people. Backstabbing us trying to do or Being phony being nice to you but then really find out what they say about you behind behind your back and the true friendships. They are so important. That doesn't matter how many you have how good of the friendship you have. I'm really grateful to for the friendship. Mattis when you're when you're putting a concert together. I mean i'm i'm curious about programming and then actually the rehearsal process you kind of working together so like you know your programming together. I would assume you're kind of doing that. And then and then during the rehearsal you you are you in the room also taking notes and helping that way or is it. Is it kind of hands off when the other one is leading. I think you described it perfectly. We actually program. Usually we program really fast right. Matias goes like this. I guess we we. We share a lot of google drive documents list we both love during we exploring music by underrepresented composers and we love exploring music. That's just underperformed. you know. Sort of these hidden gems. I for example one of the most beautiful memories i have of matias conducting the one bieber symphonies. You who was hard of fun we've actually writing symphonies so beautiful and it was a. It was a incredible candlelight concert and so that's kind of always stays in the back of my head of the beautiful memory when we're together. It's almost like a master class. You know because i watch them rehearse and conduct and i to learn so much from it in the something once like you guys know once you've reached the point where you really entering the profession. That's kind of a bizarre turning point because on one hand where students for life i didn't. That's what music is all about right. He could study twenty four seven if we didn't have to sleep and you still could only scratch the surface beauty and the obsession of but at the same time i especially with conducting. Is this perception that once you enter the career and you're doing it as a profession or you can't go to masterclasses Ten networks. it's kinda stupid. Yeah but in that regard it's always so refreshing and inspiring to get to be together and learn that way in an environment where i don't have to fear that someone's going to say some weird about mirrors. If that makes any sense you know a jet to come back to. Your programming. Question unrepresented composers. We usually feature on every single concert with all on sambas that we work with Because we believe especially in a community like memphis right where we have a beautifully diverse city beautifully diverse community. There is so important that that children are. We play for a lot of children actually. It's okay the mission really is to bring music to neighborhoods and communities in memphis than her half stoned have access as other other communities actually honestly. That's the biggest part of the organization like monty said no that we're all sort of across the country we do. Maybe two concerts a year but then all the other stuff that goes on you know without where tense going out into. Schools offering. Free lessons to you know they. They're struggling to afford it. That's really the biggest part of what's infant yet does right now. And so in the programming. It's important that those kids from a wide variety of backgrounds and orientations and cultural backgrounds to find themselves somehow reflected on stage right in the musician said of performing. And that's luckily we're such a beautifully diverse orchestra to really with people from all across the world anthony also that they see themselves showers in music that's being performed. That's super important. Really cool that you guys go out. And do you know. Orchestras talk about that kind of stuff. A lot and nine times out of ten. It's we're gonna play star wars at a kitty concert and that is our you know community outreach to young people and they're going play mars and they're going to play and you know it's it's such an easy coats who i think it's been done so many times that it's not significant anymore and it. It's not enough to bring to spark that interest whereas when you ashley involve them in you know the creation of it be it you know giving them lessons or going into their school and having a quartet play. Those are much more intimate settings where connections can actually be made so that it might actually make a difference so i think that's really great. Thank you think you're so right by just sort of a multifaceted process. I think we agree right. Those things have value as well and experiencing this amazing using that. They've seen on television or on the screen But your soul right right. It's a hands on approach. It's an understanding that it's just as much learning process for As musicians right in and a growing process to get to do that kind of work to get the opportunity to to light that's arth in someone as it isn't an plea fruitful opportunity for for the kids as well and so while of course quality is always you know we all want our concerts to sound good but honestly it's all about the communal experience and so even in our regular sinfonietta rehearsals. We often have kids. We invite them to sit in and album can play four or five percent of it but they really get vissel. Experience of illawarra are flu principal. Sitting right next right next to the garo in the flames. Incredibly beautiful how to be able to pull like that one day and having just a an amazing starting amazing connection to this person and then she said angrily give you listen to mar right and it just goes from there and the family grows. And that's the goal. The families gross that way to the very famous our after concert parties usually rent nightlong. Portia that's true. Nobody else traditions. After already before the concert. There's another a really nice tradition where we all come together. In the basement of usually performing a church there wonderfully diverse community at sacred heart in memphis and the whole orchestra comes together to share some thoughts in gratitude and in sounds so bizarre. N- cultish say right now even out loud but it doesn't feel that way you know when we're there because it's not it's family and really are so grateful that we have that connection people come back from from all over the country to just be and play with their friends again and really sort of focuses you before the concert and you go out as a team you do the thing over well it goes and then afterwards you know you're coming back yet another time and you celebrate your friendship yet again. I think for the for the musicians. It may be a nice change if they're playing another orchestras. It's probably justed job like you know. Maybe they finally get to play great music. But it's very much a job in which you guys have sounds absolutely having family as a great great. Where for the people's names right an orchestra we don't know. Maybe you know you stand partners. Name okay section. But then i don't know i've been in. I don't even know my standpoint. I think such a such an important thing. Actually that human connection because again. That's what it's all about the people and about making connections and so that that's awesome nicer. You give my conducting students if you go out and you hope you you can make your hopeful to make a career in this field. You gotta understand never about you and music about people and you have to learn people's names you have to make that a number one priority. Actually tried to know. My students names from day one and the same with professional orchestras. You have to try to get to know the people and not just on a superficial level yet. Appear about them. So how did the out of the the pre concert tradition. Start a great question. I'm just started with this. Andy carroll or a couple of members of the orchestra who asked for about this writing the basement there because it was sold a green room right. The basement is agreement so everyone was there anyways. Some as it is fiddling around warming up yes someone just stop them andrew carroll or or you may be happening despu to the orchestra and then it went from there. Not as common tradition right. Yeah i love that. Just kind of just kind of happened by itself in the in the right in the right environment with right people. How big is the orchestra. It's you know it's chamber orchestra like doubled winds how many ish strings. What's with that. Look like tense. Last year Was a little bit bigger. I think we had eight. I maybe seven seconds six five win three basis and double wins So that's i would say typically between forty and forty five the pool rights of of musicians that we ask. Are you able much is. I guess that's by now and one hundred hundred twenty people that played with us the time Since it's geared and this nerdy facet right about sinfonietta emphasis a historically informed performance practice oh we usually tailor the instrumentation of the orchestra size towards what we play the make sense so the last one was one of the later beethoven symphony and little little bit later went with the larger group there and then headed the head of the academy start. You said that's been going for two years. What are the origins of that you know. Historically in performance this is such a. It's a subject that's so in fashion in europe has been for twenty thirty years already. But it's strange house lowly on the it's it's hanging around in the us in when we think of is arguing form performance practice. We think of baroque music. That's maybe or a decade or two. Yes that has arrived in the us. And there's amazing scholars in america. That do this kind of work year towards baroque or earlier. But as soon as you see. Mozart haydn beethoven schumann schubert on a program. It is completely romanticized in. It's sort of like okay. This oregon form precautions. Practice stops active. And of course. That's not true right. Actually the performance style really the stylistic ideas not compositional ideas but the sound aesthetics are fluid from baroque into classical. Sweet sweet. sounds huddling your tone of the ideal of voice. Decay released right. I mean all of these things that just naturally came from the way. The instruments were built to the bose. Where really that doesn't change until later in seoul. We always found that interesting. And now when a here in a here of mozart or haydn done the romantic way hint candidate anymore. You know there's something so honest. Genuine and certain sense raw in reference which are words we don't necessarily associate merely with classical style but they were natural results of how the instruments had developed up until that point So when i when. I got a record player a couple of years ago. I went through my dad's old records and i found like a recording with the brandenburg considered from the fifties or something and it was just. It was so goofy and disgusting. And like i can't even listen to it as a joke just to hear how bad it was because it was so bad and i was like. Yeah but but then we still hear that with with it the i. It's just such a different sound. And even beethoven. I mean currently working on an article The topic is on the of mozart about the different tempi. Okay And when i listened to these you know renowned conductors sperm carl bernstein and compare it to mornington a tour. It's just incredible. If i have found like a difference from the same minuets and temple more than seventy beats per minute going to span of twenty years. Something is just right. I mean like carre on in the seventies eighties famine. Just change the composer's context like or instrumental like instead of floor horns who have eight or his telam the all or like four crumbles instead of two. I mean that's just not how do things nowadays. Right i mean. That's something i think goes on our focus to just like the over romanticized approached. kevin mentioned. We've tried to Eliminates just harshly will be brought by not like we're a single notes period and it just changes their reception took a while for the orbis selected. Change the style last year. we did. Mozart's fifth relinquish power bounded professor Shoot first of all. I in terms of like The academy what we have been what we saw. We were shocked. Who would have thought that our rights lyneham kalaheo is a twentieth century. A but it's already mozart in the turkish But right to own my god marathon about this. So that's where we already started putting together professor. Xu kinda set something in the academy as well which was quite. I opening awesome for all of our france. He said we have to learn unlearn. Thinks that you learned that your professor Or something like that does quite interesting. That's kind of our soon. I have to ask what was the peace with seventy beats per with seventy beat. Difference between the record. It's the cheapest rescinded room. You dislike around one hundred. Thirty reportedly quarter notes or incidence horn crew. Over two hundred. I'll try to try to find those recordings on. You'll share them really. I'm really curious. So from a historically accurate performance perspective. How do you guys approach. Beethoven and his metronome markings. That's kind of been hot topics. The last few days. I've seen a lot about. It was very tempted. I saw it on facebook to come off the institute. Immortal to think about mark. Well y approach is really pump sitter his first of all that article by the melts. Labatt's metronome has been fifty. That's correct plus nolan talks about all these metro who already have been in place years earlier. You know especially like in france Metronomic errors. there was a pocket. Watch youtube temple. So i just hope them probably as modern asks dissenting remarks in otherwise making like i write in votes and then you still auction and no more. There were people who say the metronome has not been working properly if not bright. What's that same. Your actual metronome. That he was using isn't a museum in in austria Actually records right that show. The home regularly brought his metronome into the shop to get it Adjusted when he noticed it was. It felt slightly off so when i gather from that. Is that matron at that. Beethoven had impeccable sense of high in temple in soap. It to me. That suggestion seems bizarre. To say his metronome was this broken arm was off of would have noticed that because clearly he did notice in otherwise he wouldn't have taken it into the shop quite regularly to get it adjusted. So yeah that's that's a game changing detail that i've never heard yum yum Sent you some materials. Yeah guarding so of course like you said by nitsa hot topic if you adjust orchestra size and your way of really the way of thinking to and like matias unlearn what. We've learned in the past because offense. It's us ourselves that stand in the way of this. This can absolutely work because it really can. I mean we've done. We've done a cycle. The only one is missing right now. Six nine months with symphony up. And we always try to go as close as we can to these markings and so on just about all of them have work with a small orchestra size. Leaner orchestral sound right. So then non vibrato the brought to only in various specific instances azam the special embellishment it absolutely not true not just work but it brings out totally new facets. I find wonderful memory. I have so. I am branded in. My mind is marcus's beethoven's seven houston symphony. That second movement. Jeremy lou is absolutely stunning. And you're e n has a certain insanity to when it starts out completely sense of of have to send you a recording stale. Just thinking about it right now and the one detail i might add in terms of academy that you asked the germany About temple luke of especially. It'll another example. This the euro march from his roy conference How often do you sheer tempe. Which is all bogle dot you at all and anything. oh allow. that's reading where then since tragic. What has nothing to do with. That's composition people do not know or they do not care enough to like reads. Go back to crime resources that this actually has been a trip in vienna so like people were walking or a were the to cement cemetery right said it has to be in at least as eighty eight all what he one end to and one and two and then it makes sense when you put it in the car. Thanks in okay. Yeah now. I realize that. Beethoven was thinking about the temple tradition in vienna that time to like to coffin into the similar to of people walking. So it's kind of too slow. I mean that's primary source which we cannot neglect. I guess we're it was very specific. Step do you call it conduct. Schlitt where it's not just a a slow march. What does it look like. Make you stop after one. Step right in new go next so to specific step. Even the us in vienna the funerals them that aligns with temporal painting didn't signed a little nerdy but it opens up a whole nother. A whole to facet a whole nother reason for for the music. And then you can. You can incorporate that in your performance and you know make something special you guys you talk to the audience and explain kind of the you know what you're doing and in that performance like how is that information or is it pretty inside the actually we. Well we do not talk about that in the audience louis the orchestra fifty academy but that might be able to inflow actual concerts that we don't we do sometimes free or sometimes we do our good friend. Khaki waltons as the memphis radio host in we're always very blessed to get to be with her before the concerts and the very generous with the time. There's some time some time to dive into these dell's petit at the concert itself. Not so much a good idea. I was just thinking. I mean if i were in the audience and i just heard it without knowing the details that you've just shared you know it'd be like well that's you know that's a that's a good performance. It's it's great and but but knowing that That not only you know. That's that's the intention behind the music but also that you've gone into that much depth and you understood that and make made such a intentional decision. I think also also adds a lot To the to the mission of historically informed for me for me as an audience member. I think that's a great point. And then i saw that. You guys also perform nontraditional settings. I thought i read somewhere. What is what does that. What does this mean sort of. I guess all over all over the town right at the idea really is sort of to break down these. The boundaries with an invisible wall between your between the performers at usually elevated up on a stage perhaps which we don't performance stages and And then the audience debts several feet away and sorta just consumes Touched on a little bit earlier. it's all about creating visceral experience so s even the rehearsals as we often have people come to rehearsals. We sounded around during the rehearsals. At least wear. I mean this is especially from an educational standpoint when we have kids with us that sit in or attend rehearsals that they are able to see each and everyone facial expressions read with us right so that's part of the nontraditional and then we've you know we've done a couple of projects in in the city of memphis in say nontraditional venues in the sense of not a concert. All in not a church not at a school been in some interesting places. Put have the after party in the same place right after. Oh no names you know. We've we've brought to the music that ran a series a sandwich and a symphony so in the neighborhood that we lived Was a few little sub shop. Where and it had. It was accused space open space. So like gosh. Why don't we feel states with music. Right next to it was the the pub that we frequented a rather frequently and sinfonietta memphis would provide music there. So you have this crossover sense of you play classical tunes and then all of a sudden we do for example mardi gras right. It would be the same musicians that now. Play the mardi gras bands parade and whatnot Mercer tilleke and october fest polka band if the same people school are are. Are you guys organizing this. I mean talking about the cortex going into the schools. All these different concerts because neither you're in the town righteous. How does how does all that. Organization work We initially did when we started. And so most of the context. We still make ourselves when we can. We really should expand. Go out into arlington or or colleague or this this town. It's usually mattis night that do that. That initial contact because it is important to us at all sort of it has to allot any with how mccain we grow What aligns with the mission of orchestra on but we are lucky that we have several orchestra members. Actually that help us with administrative work asked white significantly so when say actually scheduling each quartet's going here. There were really fortunate that our friend andrew does a lot of simple when you guys are going to these alternative venues. You kinda answered my question in your topic but you know. Are these places that you've actually sought out or do they come to you and say we want to work with you because we have They haven't done much in the last couple years but we have a community orchestra here in springfield that they re have really started to do a lot of different things specifically were known for having a lot of breweries in town. And there's the local craft beer. Scene is very big and so they did this concert in one of the you know beer factories which call them but anyway they had it in their little tasting room and it was called beer and brandenburg and they had taken and created a flight for each of the brandenburg concertos and they even have like a special. You know beer that they had for that night's specifically it was a really cool thing so you talked about that you know. That was something that the community worked on. They reached out to them. They reach out you know. It was a group effort. Is that something you guys do. Do you guys frequently have people come up and say hey you guys have done some interesting things. We want to collaborate with you so amazing. Oh gosh i love that gonna head back to springfield right. We all should I think montiel's would usually. It's been us right that have and usually it's organic rediscover our new place a we we did. We would discover a new place in memphis. This is really needs an interesting people that are there and they would be just fun to get to know them right as i think. That's the phone. And then sometimes you get know people are not interested in new bringing your music and than other times. They are and then from the air. Sometimes the most beautiful future collaborations development ethic has certainly become a little. Bit more tricky. Since we don't live there anymore. That's probably reason why. It's more organized from our side on. But i was like Amazed about your story story. Luke about school year breweries the costs. I'm not sure if you saw that. Kevin s orchestra fox valley symphony than appleton wisconsin and being conducted from germany which term is a very famous pantry for beer. Not only the year bought. Guess watts they made a beer named after him and was a big honour young. You did my music director interview there a couple of years ago and i got the job in. It's it's a wonderful one of the finest or in wisconsin really a beautiful people and then the executive directors at my. Gosh we should partner up with mick fleischmann's of brewery town and make a beer for you. And so they did. This called souder. Brian has the first part of my name and call my parents. I told them about the beer not about the job. That's highest honor. Was what what. What's the style of beer is light dark. What is it. We were actually able to sit down with the with the brewer and he asked me. What kind of beer do i like. I was really honored model. It in that sense. I love wheat. Beers is pm with You know sort of like notes of clove nutmeg. That kind of thing. of course. These flavors are not mixed in right there just natural products of brewing process until it s what they didn't i really love it awesome. You'll have to try it. I have the honour to try it. Yet thence ryan are you almost ready. Almost gotten into the almost would martinez was supposed to conduct a concert there with the fox valley symphony in march march. Thirteen fourteen And it got cancelled the day off right. Where did the day before bryce you hired me for was a pops concert. In new york. Tenors and friday days still said earlier on so we flew in to appleton and sets Concentrated policy saturday. Evening dislike hundred and saturday morning. A an around ninety. Am to cancel the council. So to three tenors. And i were in town at the best time in my life because we sort of wing for breakfast An irish pop right next to it so we were like late evening and night then flew back home on sunday. Unfortunately without concert. Yeah that was a weird weekend. I was work at the professional orchestra box office. And i remember like we had a sold out concert on friday and same sold out concert on saturday all day. Friday was just like oh god. We're going to have this concert and was asking if we're going to have this concert. That was merchant march thirteenth. Was the day that will be remembered. Right did y'all were. Y'all able to have the concert council now. Martin march seventh. What's our last concert. I think seven pm luke. How has it affected you. Your work in you're doing. I mean i have a small community orchestra up near kansas city that i'm the director of thankfully. Are we have our. We only have four concerts a year. One of them typically end of february first march so this year it was. I think it was march eighth that we have the concert. We were so close to cancelling it to But we decided to go ahead and go on with it. It turned out really well. It's being a smaller community. They weren't exactly worried about the virus so it was learned things. It didn't really affect us too much until after the school. Rehearsing in the high school there and the auditorium at the high school was built for the symphony. But it's at the high school and so we lost our ability to rehearse and obviously our performance space which we still haven't gotten back so this you know this fall. We've just been doing a lot of digital concerts rehearsing in small chamber groups. You know it's it's a change. But i think it's really good for the musicians. It's definitely a different a different way of performing and rehearsing and playing. I think them having some ability to have a say in the music you know it's like hey guys i don't have to make all the decisions here. This is chamber music we do. This is a group. What what are your thoughts. i think. Yeah that's something that they don't typically get. And i think it's really helped him a lot. You know. Obviously a community orchestra. We struggle with things like intonation and listening and so being able to really bring things back into chamber groups. I think is really beneficial for the orchestra's a whole room. As far as like progressing as musicians and learning how to work as a team and a unit now it's good Always comes back to jabber. Music momentum. works was now that you're doing that. I think that shows great leadership. Actually you know to not. I think we've all been there this this year. That were moments. Where i really wanted to dig my head in the sand and just wake me up when it's all over But of course we can't do that and good. Leadership in in that regard is finding the the silver linings right in finding new creative ways of marching forward. And it sounds like you've really you're making the best out of it and giving them the best possible experience That they can have at this point in the conditions that we're given so who does view that's really awesome. I definitely been enjoying being able to play with them Because i i didn't want to sit there and tell them what to do. I wanted to actually like play with them. And so that's been a really. It's been really fun. It was really unfortunate. We just had our christmas concert on the sixth. And the saturday before that performance. I tested positive for covid and so actually couldn't make it and we had to get a different horn player involved to cover and it was kind of a little bit of sad that i didn't play but you know it's never thought i'd have to sit out concert. Hope you're doing well. Who been feeling okay. No much better. Yeah i definitely. I'm still here and i'm not a hospital so i have a lot to be thankful for good awesome. So we're we're running up to about an hour Before we move onto our last questions which would be The hidden gems and just partying partying. Advice is there anything else that you guys want to cover or address or or plug before he before we move towards the end. I was just because debbie something to talk about because we organize and nodar online conducting academy which is december twenty. Eight rue generated january eleventh online enemy. Which which was kind of late decision. Maybe a week ago. Small london last year to program by the flexibility that will get like six ritual conducting lessons of. It'll be five or six seminars with three guest speakers from switzerland memphis and your that something to point on it as well as lilly. Yeah and that's that's through. That's through memphis. Who's in vietnam okay. L. yeah i i'd i saw that. It was so you get the. I liked that you had like kind of The hybrid system. You had the conducting lessons and then you had like kind of the self study technique program right. Yeah yeah we actually developed so over the summer right when we weren't able to have our sinfonietta academy in person we thought about what. What shall we do and we decided then to to turn us a week and a half into a four week. Online program and online conducting academy actually worked out incredibly well much better than we could've ever hoped dreamed for it to go from all angles all aspects so we had thirty two participants from four different continents and lots of awesome guest speakers guest lecturers and so the participants would get conducting lessons with both matias an i. Sometimes we teach together though. It's fun to do that. And sometimes it be individual and then we'd have those special topics touch on scores studies or marking Historic performance practice and and topic specific things. Also a an excursion into underrepresented composers and what Programming should look like if you are responsibly. Engaged world citizen and twenty th century musicianship now twenty first century musician and then another really big part of the academy. Was this eighteen. Chris gorriak technique course. The does not put together. Where we upload. It regretted sixty videos. All sorts of conducting subject it starts with really the basics and then goes through more and more advanced conducting techniques sort of modeled along model Developed a healthy conducting switzer conducting technique. That hopefully explains every every concept by how our body naturally organically works by the idea that you're not working against your busy but use it to your advantage and and that sort of an model along x rudolph's grammar of conducting uses that sort of terminology. So they are participants. Should those instructional videos. And then they could upload their own videos of recognizing these concepts the neat thing than with this go react. Platform form is that montes night can go online and at comments that are time stands right time code. So you get this feedback. Check your elbow with little bit high. You know at comments in the participants that completed part of the academy. Because of course everything is alan terrier is optional. We saw incredible progress in the lessons. Themselves to just progress was a lot quicker I really liked that you. You have all the different elements of it. Because i think a lot of a lot of workshops Innovated this year by going online. But you guys actually didn't just go online. You're actually created some new stuff. And and i like again. I like all the all the different angles that that that the workshop gets so. I think that's very awesome and my question is always the hidden gems question which i'm kind of excited to hear what you have to say. I'm always looking for composers. That i don't know about specifically. I really love digging up older composers. It just never had a chance. Because they weren't sorta beethoven so like what are some specific composers as you have found that may not be frequently played or a lot of conductors. Might not even know about them. That you particularly have enjoyed Discovering quite similar program actually since we both teach school Besides like Full baber talked about before on we both florence price Xenical rich taylor on come. Quite communist clean. Specially these rediscovered by Those are composers. we do One other composer snuffy experienced haven't ever enjoyed the music of fanny mendelssohn right so the overture nc as unfortunately the only orchestral work of that we know of who knows it may be some. That's attributed to. Her brother was actually harbor notes. And this apiece. I really love and have programmed. Lafley think we had program for the august concert with symphony at the that unfortunately couldn't couldn't happen joseph boulogne yet. If we're looking back into some of the classical area of bologna chevallier this and then living composers. Someone who absolutely obsessed about lately is medicine. Jose elise on who writes absolutely gorgeous music and all of his music is actually for free so very kind of him to do that. And it's music. That is i feel. Like what about is is approachable for young musicians. So it's something that i've been doing. My youth need college students. And at the same time it has enough substance and content in the interesting facets that it's also really really great for professional groups to really versatile music and then then our final question and wrap up is If you could erect a billboard with with just about anything on it to send out to all of our listeners conductors around the world today what would you. What would you want to send it to them every day. The good human being because good things happen to good people. You know and Again understanding that it's not about well when raises really it's about people and bringing people together and everything we do. Hopefully as a musician is to connect and to build bridges and to include. Make everyone feel welcome. I feel that's that's so important A wisdom that our teacher always shared with us. John was that this was especially useful as a young conductor conducting student rear in this theory field. Of how am. I going to get my foot in the door. He said well kevin. What kind of skier are you will kind of skier are you. We're like what would he knew. Can the skier well. Do you ski down the mountain in a straight line. So that you're down as the first person note fastest person and you win the contest skiing on the ill or econo- skied on preps lubis or end in wavy lines with lots of turns What is the right way to do. This said no probably the the snaky the s approach because yes. You might not be the first person down at the finish line. Might you will have met so many people along your way you will actually have had enough time to take in the beautiful nature around you. Beautiful people around you. You might have come across obstacles that you then were able to saul by working together with others. Ohio gonna get across this country. No two huge tree stump in the in the way And even though that route might take a lot longer it is the route that is so much more. What's the word english better for the soul. Because it understands. It's not about you i didn't. It's not about winning anything and it's not about reaching a goal really is about the process and the voyage to travel in between point a. and b. that something that sits with me really kind of every single day that's great. I love that. I love the metaphor that that makes so much sense. It's so clear. Yeah if i can add something is well here It's very important What i would say is. I fully agree. That important also is like to go for your agrees that something i learned because You know your four conductors together at the same time when he wants to become a conductor you can. There's always a way never give the are a lot of different pass to get it to achieve it but which was the case for both Myself to would never have thought. Just a second. Like ten years ago that i would end up being in the united states having dr Bucking at teach at the university of its noway lots some out and way through that with all these challenges. You have always challenges. Stay true true to yourself. That's something which rod is up here very hard because when you think Have to follow this particular approach. The sky change the way that you're actually are. You won't be successful. stay true to ourselves. Believe in what you do fight for it. Stand up for it. There will be something in awesome. Well kevin mattias. Thank you so much for joining us today. This is this is a treat. Yes it was in. Cuba was a treat plus converse. Thanks for having right. Some point have to meet in person all the four of us. Yes we should share concert memphis. How much would that be. We should do that and get some some suitable acid original dry rib very rigorous apps. We should do that though. I think you would enjoy the concert party. That's thanks so much for joining us for this episode of podium time you can find everything in the show notes below and please reach out if you have any suggestions for guests or improvements to the podcast. We're always striving to make podium time. The best podcasts that we can for you conductors and students to send us a facebook message or use the contact page on a website with any suggestions you may have. Thanks so much for listening to this episode. And we'll see next time mandelson's. Italian symphony was performed by the czech national symphony orchestra. And beethoven's overture was performed by steffano liberace.