Ep 94: Self Made with A'Lelia Bundles
Hey y'all this is culture soup where Texas culture and business collide. It's a podcast at spoons up. Everything hot from social media. I'm your host El Michelle Smith and each episode. We bring you some of the most notable and not yet notable thought leaders in Tech Business and culture The year was two thousand and two. I was in Milwaukee for the National Association of Black Journalists Career Fair and convention. This would not be my first time at this Rodeo. But this was one of the best conferences I attended in the best in a BJ convention. I'd attended yet. Milwaukee was off the chain. How many of you were there. But there was an arranged meeting that I had thanks to. Abc News is first African American female anchor. Her name was Carol. Simpson her producer would be in Milwaukee at this event and she wanted us to meet we actually connected by email ahead of time and we would meet in a coffee shop not too far from the Convention Center and the Host Hotel. This is where I would meet Ilya Bundles for the very first time in person. She told me that she had book on her own ground. And it was the story of Madame. Cj Walker the first female millionaire in the United States of America this was in the early nineteen. Hundreds sister was doing it. She was balling. He's doing everything that you want to do today. Back in the early nineteen hundreds well. A Lillian was their great great granddaughter. And she would become my first client when I started my agency. She in Valorie Burton. Of course you know her. She is my mentor coach. She's the one who runs the institute where I received my certification not long ago. But I digress. A Lilia had a vision. She wanted to share the message of women's empowerment from Madame. Cj Walker story with the masses through her book and my job would be to publicize the book fast forward to two thousand and nine thousand nine hundred ninety one of the first. Several episodes of the culture sue podcast. I had a little bundles on the show. Some of you may not remember. Many of you came along after and started to listen to the podcast but a Lilia said something in that episode and I invite you to go back and listen to it. She talked about how her book was being option and turned into a movie. And at the time it looked like net flicks would pick it up on original series produced and driven by a production outfit led by Lebron James. You know King James from the NBA. Yeah everybody knows who? Lebron is and the lead character madame. Cj Walker played by Octavia Spencer. You've probably seen the series it's called self made and it premiered last month and several of you saw it and several of you loved it and several of you hated it not because that it was this great story of Madame Cj Walker but there were some problematic things about the writing in fact the Lilia talks about it with me. I invited her back to have this conversation about the importance of black history when it comes into contact with Hollywood and she gives us great advice for all of you authors out there who have dreamed about turning your book into a movie. She's been there and done that. And has the t shirt. Did you know that this particular story has been optioned more than once outlet her? Tell that story ladies and gentlemen without further ADO. I like to introduce to you and reintroduced others my friend former client and also author Speaker Historian Emmy Award winning journalist. Lilia Bundles on this special extended edition of the culture. Podcast how're you you're looking? Well how are you good? I know I know I see your little updates on instagram. Thank you so much. But she don't what you predicted it on. You didn't predict that you told me what's going to happen. What what with the Dell theory right you. You mentioned that Lebron had picked it up at that point. And you'd mentioned Octavia Spencer. So to all come to fruition assist amazing but I I also predicted that the firestorm over the step. That people didn't like was going to happen as well. You did all of that. Everybody store excited my dear friend back. We had her on dipper out. The leader was one of the earliest shows. It is a little bundle. She is the biographer of Madame. Cj Walker the great great granddaughter of the First Female Millionaire in. That's right on her own ground been released under a new probably because the NETFLIX series. May I have a mind how you doing very nice to be with you? You're looking fabulous as always timeless. Y'All hey good thank you. You're looking fabulous two dollars. This pandemic hair is all up in a Bun Maria opportunities for our friends. Yes yes Ma'am yes ma'am and I have. My heart goes out to beauty. Preneurs out there all over the place because so many of them had to either halt their their businesses or pivot. And it's really been trying time. Just WanNa shout them out before we get going. Yeah yeah definitely definitely eight if you know. This is a non for creativity. It's tough but you have to dig. Yes ma'am yes ma'am and you know what we're all inspired by your great great grandmother the man of Cj Walker and she is going to be the Nice segue into worse moment. Are you ready? I'm ready okay. You know what no matter. What the heck out there right now. We know covert nineteen grown virus. All over the place. Boss is always trendy. Wouldn't you say absolutely and I think that the self may Netflix series? I have seen people saying that. They are destined off their side. Hustles and that. They are inspired as they're sitting at home and you worried about what's going to happen next that they are looking to their entrepreneurial. Spirit yes ma'am yes ma'am and Madame. Cj Walker such the original boss. Baby you know. I had the thrill and purpose to do some work with Mary. Kay last year. And now you're unraveling the story of Mary. Kay Ash to some entrepreneurs that day. I couldn't help but in my opening remarks saying that she inspire me but she harken back to original boss. Babe Madame CJ Walker. They sort of the same business model. Wouldn't you say well? Yes and you know one of the things that I learned when I was doing. My research is that in nineteen seventeen when Madame Walker had her first convention a first sales agents something that had been one of the first group of women. Business Women Getting together at that convention. She gave prizes like Mary. Kay what two years and Mary? Kay was born you. The women who sold the most products brought in the most new agents but she also gave prizes to the women who had contributed the most to charity part of her message to this army up. Two hundred black women who had come from all over the United States the Caribbean in Central America. And she said to them. Your first duty is to humanity. I want others to look at us and realize that it's Walker eight since week here. Not just about ourselves but about others and at the end of the convention the Women in the telegram to President Woodrow Wilson urging him to support legislation to make lynching a federal crime. So yes it was about making your own money becoming economically independent but the bigger message was used that money and that influence to make a difference in community awesome. You know what you said the magic date in there and if this is something you don't want to talk about edit it out but I gotta ask you nine hundred seventeen nineteen eighteen. The Spanish flu. So Madam Wasser deal with exactly what is going on right now with corona virus. How did she manage that? Is there anything that gives you any indication of how she kept her business afloat? One of the reasons that we can tell Madam Walker story with such detail is that we have almost daily letters between her and her attorney between her daughter or attorney and business records. I mean literally tens of thousands of records so I can tell thinking about and in one thousand nine hundred eighteen when the flu was happening. When that Spanish flu misnamed Spanish flu was happening Family Physician Joseph Ward Lost. His son his infant son. She had a coal which he describes a cold throughout the fall of nineteen eighteen and into early nineteen nineteen into letters. It just said I can't shake this call. She never mentioned that she has the flu so I don't know that it was the flu but she was having some health problems and of course she was immuno compromised because hypertension and she had kidney issues as a result of hypertension. So I don't know from a documentation standpoint. She actually had the flu but she did have some kind of cold that she couldn't say. Oh you know what this almost spooky. Because there's so many people here in the United States of America before we even knew that it was going to hit our soil. There were people who were sick. That didn't know what was going on right. That's read a symptomatic. I mean it and you think about all. I've done a lot of research on black soldiers who went to over to Europe during during the war in France and certainly a number of soldiers died of the flu. I haven't seen anything really written about the black soldiers. I wonder if they were in a separate you know. They were separated from the white soldiers. If that had anything to do with I don't know that from a from a research standpoint. Yeah Fascinating Oh my goodness so. Let's talk about how on your own. Brown the book you and I worked to get publicity around. How many years ago? Two Thousand and three thousand four something like that has now been brecon. Rename rebound. I believe because there's a new cover to reflect the new Netflix. Show self me right so my book is that we worked on Long long ago on her own ground the life and times madame. Cj Walker originally came out in early two thousand one and then the paperback came out in two thousand and two and now that there is a Netflix series. Star in the Amazing Octavia Spencer. We called staff made. Yes we love her she was great the publisher my publisher has put together two additions. One is a movie tie in edition without Spencer on the cover name South made and the other has an ill cover the original title on her own ground so it is essentially the same book as the original thousand one but I've written a new epilogue and I made a few corrections. You know in a two hundred ninety three page book there are few stakes that you make the first time around so I hope as a journalist I have made a couple of corrections more research. Because I'm writing. I'm almost finished with a biography on Walker's daughter L. E. Walker. It will be out next year away from here so yeah. I stuck in a few little things about her that I did that. Were in the first edition and this would be your grandmother. My great grandmother. Great Greg Greg Kevin Matt Jay Walk or Great-great-grandfather Lily Walker my great grandmother and then a Lilia Walker actually adopted my grandmother. My grandmother who was may so may appears at the end of the Netflix series. She goes to Spelman and she becomes president of the company. And then my mother Leilia and then me well okay. That's how I got it a little crosstalk. I knew there was more than three ali-aliens. We'll throw you ILYA number three. You says more research. What did you uncover that? You didn't know already so a story with a Walker. Even when I was writing on her own ground I was trying to establish the relationship between mother and daughter and my last chapter this sort of end of the book called the after Ward I wrote about tried to put her whole life in the twenties into about ten pages because I knew I was going to write another book and I didn't WanNA get secrets away. But one of the things. I discovered is that the way she's been written about in the past essentially as Madame Walker made the money her daughter Leila spent the money she had a lot of parties the end and I have to say nobody is that pathetic was very well educated and they were like that would just be you know but it was a kind of shorthand that people even some scholars work. I really respect in writing about the Harlem Renaissance. I guess that was just kind of a neat package to do a cliche often. It's because you're lazy so I think I like banning original Click Bait and not for the Internet. That's right exactly but what I discovered about her. She truly was a patron of the arts. And she hosted the first show or against the savage. The famous blacks gawkers. She was very close friends with a lot of the musicians and actors of that period. Because that we know Langston Hughes County Collins Orono Hurston. Even those are lied about her age. But by and large the writers were found a decade and a half younger than a Leilia Walker so her contemporaries were the actors and musicians. Who Really. We're kind of that first. Wave of talent for the Harlem Renaissance. So those people were adver parties performing in her parties and doing concerts on her homes. So those kinds of things were interesting to me to really place her as a as a patron of the arts and not just say some people say oh you know. She didn't even read books. But I haven't library so with her first editions of scientists but just put her in a box and then the other thing. That was so fascinating to me is. She really wasn't international travel. She loved Havana and in one thousand. Nine hundred twenty one and twenty two. She went to Paris London. Monte Carlo Rome for the coordination of the Pope Palestine high row and then Addis Ababa to to meet the empress of Ethiopia so she was saying that she was and she went first class on the on the S S era. The only black who is in first class so you know she is a really interesting story. Now she not. Her mother is absolutely true. She's not as driven a businesswoman. As her mother. She still is quite interesting all on her own. I can't wait to read it now. We gotta get back to Madame. Cj Walker and self made first of all. Tell me about many experienced. What was it like taking your book working with the lights of Lebron James and his team and then and TV Spencer and bringing this story to Hollywood. What was that like? So I know people think that because Lebron James's name is listed as an executive producer that I know but I've never met him never talked to him so I hear splitting paypal dot. Bff that that sort of added to the You know made it interesting to people that are gave some cachet but my book had been option the couple of times before and this is kind of a very typical. Hollywood story in the early eighties. Alex faily wanted to do a mini series about Madam office so I did a ton of research for him that he died at two without having written with that was in some ways. Okay because it was like I got a great mentor and some doors stop. You know what that is like black history. I like take that in four minute. I wonder what his take would have been like. You know it was. I think some of it is generational. This is what I love about doing interviews with you is that you have. You always say now. Wait a minute Minnesota journalist so I actually. I have the treatment that Alex did for the original idea and we so far as to you know he had this beautiful farm in Tennessee. That Marion Wright Edelman Children's Defense Fund now owns and they use it as a retreat. But we went to his farm with A couple of the Hollywood producers and directors who had been part of fruits and Reuben Cannon who had done the casting who now I think works with Tyler Perry and a couple of historians who I invited to come and we talked about how we would develop a story and you know he saw when it was interesting. He saw composite character. Which is something that I would have done for this series that that the writer in really having her vision but to have composite character who was a good friend and a mentor to Madame Walker when she was still a Washer woman and the Church women at Saint Paul Ame Church at St Louis. The people who gave her that vision that she could be something more than an illiterate washerwoman and the person he saw in that role at the time with my Angela. Oh this is so. This is no different people's ferry he was close to Quincy. Jones and Oprah. Winfrey was part of that mix because they had just done Color Purple and he and he and of course an Oprah Winfrey Maya Angelou. We're good friends so that was part of the mix of people who would have been involved but of course now you know thirty years has gone by since then so some of those. Some of those things are older but that was the idea and it was there was more there was a love story with. Cj Walker that he was developing and you know so that was interesting piece and more of her politics and more of her philanthropy which I loved to have seen so we so we get a but Alex. I did all this research for hours. I said nine months off from my job as a producer to be moved to New York for a few months and there were still some of the elders who were living. I went to twelve different cities that these people people work with the company so it was really a very special moment and some people may remember Stanley now since film two dollars and a dream like his very first documentary. You know people know his vials Davis and Hugh Jackman Stanley's a macarthur fellow but his very first documentary with two dollars and a dream about Madam Walker impart because his grandfather was F. B. Ransom Madame. Walker's attorney so same elders for his film and you can see it now on Youtube. He put it up on new to a few weeks ago. And there are the more than four hundred thousand views so this is. Kgo People Participate. This and I know friends but he has since become my friend. I'm no other conversation that I've had on. This show has fascinated so much except for drummer. Please Dr Henry Louis Gates Junior. To what you're sharing with me has a lot to do with ancestry. And that's what we talked about of course but these black history figures that are interacting like in real time in these stories just blowing my mind and these are the types of stories that that skit shares. You know right well. Listen listen this is so much. The story I really want to Redo Spencer was great in an in south main. I think for me. She really embodied the spirit and the courage and the Walker but the story lines were really different than what I would have imagined. It SORTA got stuck on that. Annie Malone Addy Monroe imaginary relationship. That really didn't happen and very little about people like item. Well who Madame Walker new and the way that Booker T. Washington was portrayed and a little bit of wkbd boys. I would have developed those relationships a lot more and a lot more with the philanthropy. Because I think that people don't really know just how amazing those black folks were in that first interaction out of slavery and rather than default two women fighting each other. I think he could show the amazing things that were going on. And I think that history people assume history is boring because they didn't like it in school but real dynamics and the drama. You know some of these all of these famous people. They didn't get along with each says it. Anyway it's how it is that's real but some of them did and they really lifted each other up and I would have loved the shown that sort of empowering women of our ring other so that's why there has to be me doing another version of so much more stored itself so why not and I've got to ask you again. I'm going to stop you again. You said it was option twice before this so the story so so our when Alice start in one ninety two I had met his editor. Lisa drew who had done roots and Lisa and I hit become friends of the result of ours and she's the one who signed my book on her own ground to scrivener so I began working on that book when it came out as I was finishing it at the end of two thousand the book was actually optioned by Columbia. Tristar for a CBS movie. And that back to me because it fell through. Which is what happens with a lot. A lot and then about five years later H. B. O. Obstinate and this was going along well but There were two writers and the more senior of the writers actually died and HBO wasn't willing to go forward. And so then the option came me again and then we had about a decade of Lack movies don't sell overseas so Hollywood interest and then right then sound twelve years in slave the Butler and Oscarssowhite happened Black Panther. But all those those things happen and then my phone state ringing again so that was in two thousand. So you need option now. We need the story of you getting past book. 'cause that's the movie in and of itself. We need the Iliad Bundles version. There's city there's definitely some drama. There's definitely drama behind drama. You mentioned Malone. There's some other things about the movie that why quite on the menu. You WanNa talk right. Sure so yeah. So the the most obvious thing. The thing that got the biggest firestorm was the adding monroe character. Who the writer the head writer and the show runners decided was a composite character who was adding Monroe because they said and they've said in interviews that they wanted to lean into cholera them. So even though in real life Madame Walker and Annie Malone were rivals and competitors both were in fact as you know very successful businesswoman and philanthropist who you know we're equals in that sense and not there constantly had nothing to do with skin color at Annie Malone in real life certainly did not follow Mount Walker to to Indianapolis they were both doing their own things with an empowering women so upset a lot of people and I and I and that because I did not think that was the Waco overthrow go there you go but that part of the way things work in Hollywood like anyway but I am. I'm really I think there's so many amazing stories now so much. That's being option about these historical figures who the most of the world doesn't know about those of us who read his three. And you know do that kind of research we're fascinated by and we know they're fascinating stories with the rest of the world is like who are these people but the really pave the way for us and I think as these stories are being option. I'm really trying with my friends. Who are in Hollywood who are receptive and my friends who are historians and journalists to really try to create a dialogue that changes the dynamic of you. Write the book and we want to go away. We really don't want to hear you because you're interfering with our creative license and I don't think it has to be that way I mean. Obviously they're different mediums. But there's a what is it that people who write history and who have all those facts that can never end up in a movie. What is it that we need to understand about translating it to the screen? And what is it that the to do the translation could learn from why it matters? If you totally changed the history you know. Yes you could do Kakaza characters but if you totally changing history it's like saying the confederates won. The civil war last came when folks? We're going to do that and movie. This reminds me a lot of the back and forth around hidden figures. And how the white male character kind of turned out to be a savior of sorts but even the whole episode the whole scene around the the woman I think it was Katherine Johnson. Going to the bathroom right or wrong. That was and how that little nuance pretty much changed. The whole storyline which is kind of made a false and not and not true. And you and I get that there are. There are some things in order to make something dramatic for Hollywood. There's some things that are going to be changed so you just kind of go okay. I you know for the greater good but there are things that that were for me troublesome in the movie I mean aside from the Annie Malone thing that was the thing that most people reacted sure. Other things for me Now I will say I love the whigs. I love the I love seeing really prosperous black folks because most people don't know that there were prosperous black in a century. I you know I like to see that. There's sacrifice that goes along with building a business and you and so a lot of people related to that and they were inspired by that but here a couple of things. The character sweetness and I know people love Bill Bellamy but that's not a real character and EFI ransom Madame Walker's attorney was known for being a straight Arrow. His daughter said he took an oath as a teenager to never drink smoke or gamble and so Sofer which which allowed Walker to be on the road into visitor. And you know when you're trying to run a business you gotTa have somebody you can trust so he was totally trustworthy but to have them betting on the numbers and then to and then to have some illegal money implying that illegal money was necessary for the company to get started for me. That was problematic breaking his character. I mean literally his character. That's right literally his character and then one of the other things. That was problematic for me. Well the character was problematic adequate for me because I didn't have a girlfriend named Esther and conflict which was over two boyfriends so there's death but the other piece was the John D. Rockefeller scene and so people have said. Oh did Mana Walker. You know. Visit John Rockefeller. I didn't really live next door to each other about five miles away but I can get that if they had actually known each other but there were so many black people who she consulted you know. They're the publisher of the blackest papers. The leaders of black organizations those are the people whose values were aligned with hers so it was unnecessary to imply that John D. Rockefeller you know who wouldn't have had her over with someone influence she could. Those things back goes way because most people are not going to get in the weeds and not think about those things but I do think that kind of thing matters ultimately. You're the biographer. That is just holding the flame. No matter what you've done so this long stop but I what. I want people to be entertained. I wanted success but movie like anybody but I do I. Maybe I just feel like this for the ancestors that their story is untold and and we need to know and young people you know. Young people can go whatever we don't know our history and our history has intentionally been raised at margin. Awad so it's an opportunity to lift those ancestors up even with their flaws. I don't mind them having laws they had flaws but to really tell what were their struggles so you have done what briars dream of first of all there are plenty of writers industry me having a successful first of all then to take it through the idea of having an option two or three times and then finally having it land and then. It's a Netflix events right. I mean there wasn't too many people on social media that were not talking up saying I've got to watch. It was a really good premier. I would say advice or tips tips. Might you have for writers who are trying to cross that magical cast from book to movie but it is a minor miracle the idea all of these people who worked so hard on this Octavia Spencer was great. I love having Blair underwood is not a walk as bad as tables love edge. I mean real wonderful. I mean if you didn't have anybody actually exactly but it's also true that during the summer when they were filming he caught me to get more information about CJ Walker. The character play. So I really admired him for doing his homework and really putting that kind of care into Kevin Carroll who played FBI. Ransom was incredible. He such a great actor and then be the behind the scenes people that make up people to costume people. The Director of cinematography the production manager to we're both black women so there's a lot of riding on something like this in order to get to this point so I have great admiration and love for the folks who work so hard but advise people so what. I just put one foot in front of the other. I mean that literally I just I I never. I couldn't have told you that this absolutely what happened. I just knew that every time something fell through that I said okay. Well I'm just GONNA keep working. I didn't even think about it as a defeat. I just thought well. It just didn't work out that time but I'm still GonNa do what I'm doing to tell the story. I'm making my speeches. I'm doing my website. I'm getting ready for the next book on. You know all of the little things that I just did. Every single day and ultimately somebody founded. The timing was right. The planets align isn't it so much the pathway of the journey of an entrepreneur it breath it is and you just you. CanNot you know because you are a serial? You really can't be defeated? It was like okay so I learned something from that and I'm just going to keep moving onto the next thing and there's another door that's opened over here. I mean that's a Cliche. I know but in fact it is true that so oh I see another opportunity here. Let me let me keep moving. Yes ma'am put one foot in front of the other and when you hear no keep going to manage the opportunities that pop up right now doesn't even know the name and a pivot just dependent. It's like okay so you you know. Why are you miss? Smart enough to get it. You know that's right. I heard somebody say this. I don't know who it was. It might have been a contemporary of mine. That's an entrepreneur. Who had advice for other entrepreneurs get used to the word no and you not only have got used to it. It's just a part of your whole operation nip. Propels you it absolutely absolutely and you just see you know. There's some things that I've learned so much this now. I have some other things that I'm some other projects. I'm getting ready to do when I finished with this book on really walk. And that's the last book I'm writing. That requires him historical research. And I it. This is kind of madame. Walker's advice have a product that you really high quality and is always really important to me that my books be reliable and credible and so I knew I was starting off with a great foundation so that really important to me that I research and write and rewrite and so everything I write has gone through multiple edits for me so I started off with that. But it's getting ready to do some other things and I'm thinking okay. So what did I learn from this experience? There were some things that didn't make me happy As I was going through it and but I managed to do my meditations Ivanic myself care I managed to see the people who were allies and identified when people were not in my corner. But I didn't WanNa have you know. Knock down drag out fights with anybody I just said. Okay I just gotTa go. GotTa Take Away Right. That's wonderful. That's good advice to because you will come against adversity and how you take care of yourself during that time will impact the way you respond because at the end of the day. It really is about how you respond it totally. Is You know as as I was going through some of the most challenging parts of it I have a really good friend who is like a coach. And you know you have friends. Who are your you know who are in your corner who are cheering you on about or what. And then there's some people who can really give you really good at 'em be honest with you and I need to. I have some of those folks around me you know and that's really really important. It's like here's what you need to think about if you do this. Here's the response that you're going to get right. That's awesome and you mentioned allies. You mentioned people who supported you. I noticed that Rhys Dennis was behind this too and promoting it anything else but it was wonderful to see that side of your business kind of come and support the book and the movie. Yeah the the Sundial folks have been just great and you know now. It's the essence folks with rich. Now this is one of the gifts. In every time there were there were things. I didn't like or challenges. I mean literally for the last fifty years there has. There's there's always you know one of the parts about telling Madame Walker story is that in addition to the wonderful party inspirational parts there are always people kinda grabbing at it or throwing something at that happens as part but one of the great gifts for me has been rich denison interest in Madame Walker and people who know something about him no he came from Liberia to go to college and he had heard about Madam Walker even before he got to the United States and wondered what had happened to the brand so never went out of business that my family was not involved after the mid eighties for about thirty years. Another entity owned trademark and rich bought the trademark for Sundial. And that's when he began to develop this new line of Products M. C. J. W. to be in the Sundial family with Shea Moisture and Nubian heritage so sauce. And it's it's great for me after he you know after the company after with so the Unilever he created this Voices Fund. This one hundred million dollars incher capital fund and bought essence but one of the other options of that is he created a foundation that now earns. Dilawar. Madame Walker's home in Irvington. That's it. That's a national historic landmark. So some of the women who go through the new voices funds. Eventually we'll be able to visit. The House blames it because I saw some of that story. Line about the the entrepreneurs that are being funded and that connection and I didn't know the full story that's amazing having a moment. I mean this is fantastic. I mean let's go back. Did you when you when we met in Milwaukee you a little coffee shop your universe or you want to write this open to the universe at that point I just. I knew that this is part of the one foot in front of the other. I knew that I needed to finish writing. I finished writing the book. I had a great crime promoting that book and then I needed to move on to something else back to work ABC. I did five years but while was doing that. I was starting to ramp up my speeches on Madame Walker. I was starting to do other things. I was on the Board of the Walker Theatre Center in Indianapolis but just little on the vacations here and there. I was just doing little things planning seeds but I also knew that I really wanted to write a book about a Walker because I thought her was as fascinating but some of this is just total. Labor of love comes failed to tell their story backwards driving me the ancestors. I knew the ancestors needed their stories told and so that became a passion. That's amazing Olivia. It's always good to. Have you knew that you have been so intentional about what you were going to do? And each one of these things planted seeds dislike. I had planned to see. And some of them blasts him into big huge trees and plants and certainly them a little small African violets are important so I let us know and I always felt like connecting with that very important time when I was thinking about starting agency and I got you. Onboard Burton on board. There she is back there. It's about time this scene. Everybody making the still always believe the spirit of Man Walker coming into content when you empower women around your you know your confidence so amazing because you remember I know I. It was like a whole feel even more honored that I want. I mean are you kidding me say this but you know what even before self made the Netflix revamp of the products. And everything on her own ground has been standing up one or two offices no matter what the box from my agency with all my words in there because you so much of what we did during the time. I have to tell you. This second generation a serial entrepreneur. In fact it's probably more powerful now than it was because I advocate executive women and business coach watching and you had lived the things that you saw in that book on your own. That's awesome on Brown. And now you can also get it around and you know what so. You Can. Order the book on my websites. Lilia BUNDLES DOT COM madame. Cj WALKER DOT COM. And you can get at your independent bookstore because we want to support them Amazon. Barnes and noble and Simon and Schuster and I will tell folks it will probably come back if you order from somebody. Else because I have now become the fulfillment department that Shipping Department labeling department and I go about every three weeks on my couch right now there are people that I have to label and I hope to the Science Yoursel some affiliate workers that can help you move those things as soon as soon as this is over. I I know you are want an amazing conversation. Lilia thank you so much and working. People follow twitter and instagram and sign up. Paul thank awesome conversation with a will you? Bud those biographer for Madame Cj Walker. The original book on her own round the new release self main and. Don't forget to check out that Netflix series. Self-made with Octavia Spencer. When you have a little extra time pandemic pandemonium a couple of things coming up. No next week Thursday. We HAVE THE PEOPLE'S JOURNALISTS. Yes another innate. Pta or my sister. Natasha offered she's Vice President of digital content at the Grio. We call her guman lineal executive we talk a lot about this pandemic and how. It's impacting our people black and Brown and we also talk about the intersection being Hispanic and black. Also everyone the dorm Slayton open again. It only happens about three times a year on. Nfc COACHING CO war. This time for the summer you'll want to sign up quota Elvis. You'LL SMITH DOT COM IN COACHING TO REGISTER DOT COM. On his twitter and facebook at the poultry. Podcast until next week the park as a reduction of known size communication the Culture Sue. Podcast is a registered trademark of no silos communications. L L C.