Episode #196: Minnie Ingersoll, I Do Believe That Innovation In Our Country Is The Huge Bright Spot
Welcome to my favorite show where the focus is on helping you grow and preserve your wealth. Join us as we discussed the craft of investing and uncovered new and profitable ideas. All to help you grow wealthier and wiser better. Investing starts here. TABOR's the CO founder and chief investment for Cambridge Investment Management. Did IT industry regulations. He will not discuss any of camp response on this podcast. All opinions expressed by PODCASTS. Participants are solely their own opinions Indianapolis plus the opinion of Kimberly investment management or its affiliates for more information visit Kim reinvestments dot com gas listeners. It's twenty twenty dawn of a new decade. And that's hard to say today we've got a great show for you. Our guest is a partner at venture capital firm ten one ten and has also co host of the great L. A. Venture podcast. She is a long time. Silicon Valley product leader operations exact. She started her career as early product. Product Manager Google where she co founded the access team across functional Product Policy Engineering Team. That spun off Google Fiber. After eleven years Google she left the beginner own. Entrepreneurial Journey as a CO founder and CEO of shift an online marketplace for used cars. Today's episode we discussed ten one ten and venture capital investing we touch on the firm's focus on software and data and the growing BBC presence in La La Land we cover some of the criteria the emphasized when making investments and we even get into some companies the firm excited about including one that leverages to assist doctors. Please enjoy this episode with many Ingersoll. Welcome many ingersoll. Thanks to be here live and in person. LA LOCAL LA native. Yes wow well originally Colorado North Carolina Guy but but I see you also did a stop for a while in the bay area. Before transplanting down here when was the the move after high school no no back back down a year ago Gal okay so relatively recent that seems to be kind of a one way street recently a lot of San Fran. There used to be a little bit of a San Fran L. A. Rivalry Lori many years ago. Not so much but it seems to be a lot of immigration coming in. We'll get to all of this but you've had a lot of stops along the way we'll get to that but fellow podcast host. How's it going listening to a lot of the episodes guys doing a good job? I love cast against great. Good way for me to learn to your day. Job Venture capitalist. Tell me a little bit about your shop. Would he goes doing. Yeah sure so. I am at ten one ten. We are based here in La and we're early stage sort of seed stage investors into mostly so the Nerdier side of companies so software and data is our focus. And we. You know it's it's a great position to be in. We're often giving someone their first. A couple million dollars if someone who's been raising money from friends and family for a year getting product just in market but really needs a million or to head to the next level and we get to that first institutional money so traditionally that would be what people would call series as sort of. We're pretty serious because because it's funny because I've been I've been investing on in privates for about five years and I wish there was a common definition because what would use to be seed now now there's precede and extensions and series. ABCD anyway so you guys are Kinda pre series a it's it's really someone's raising a million and a half or two million dollars should just be what we talk about is how much money are they raising. And that should get them to the next step where they're gonNA raise eight million dollars so so your use taken down the whole chunk. Are you a part of a group house. Usually work yet either way. So you know one of the things I care about is listening to the market and listening to entrepreneurs and what are they need and a lot of entrepreneurs we talk doc do need someone to lead their round so we liked to lead rounds but we don't have to lead rounds so that might be that we are writing a seven hundred fifty K.. Check into a million and a half round so even an that could be a lead for us but we're not taking that whole rounds of it's a pulling together around with the entrepreneur and making it so they're in a good position to get to the next stage. Okay so you say you guys focus a little bit on data intact. It's funny 'cause I smile because I remember when some of the a crowd funding startup paroles going back. Many years Angel Angeles says they only do tech and then I see literally the stuff that comes across my desk. It's it's like Bra companies. You know soap companies. It's look you could probably say anything tack at this point. Tell me a little bit more about what you guys were. Actually actually you know looking for or investing in. Yeah no it's in her. Say I was just so on my interviewing. Somebody said what he really investing said. I want to invest invest in a company that I think I could run. which is an interesting so if you are abroad company? I don't think I could run that. I don't really know how to launch a direct to consumer Moore brand. It's not my strength. So we tend to invest in companies that resemble companies that we have built before so my fund were all founders of companies that have been in software and data so oh we like to fund things that we feel like we understand not that I could run not that I want to run but they can be some value. ADDS that entrepreneurs so my background's in in computer science I've been product manager for many years. I like to get involved with. There's a real piece of like product market fit to figure out that's kind of a nice place to be in. I mean for me is like the the really early stage seed stuff where it's just like a dream in an idea seems so hard you know once once you start to see a little a bit of a product and traction all right talk to me how to you guys go about sourcing and finding these deals is a people just Listening to the met favorite. Show going to send you a email l. and that's that do you guys do it through traditional. VC's where it's just your network. How do you go about finding these? Yeah no I think it's the former. I really think that everyone who listens to show. She just send immigrate companies deal conduct envoy. And they're great Netflix. I mean there is a lot of is a deluge of companies constantly. Okay and actually gotten really good you can throw my email there no problem because it's just a it is a constant dealers of things you know. The first screen is just. Is this approximately right bridges. I get a ton of people who raising ten million dollars for a drive to consumer broad company which is like pretty clearly not what we do so I mean a a lot of it is our backgrounds and sort of people know us and know us for certain things and so my partner Gil Elba's. He started parted company. Applied semantics built add sense and then he ran Google's. La Office for many years. So many of the product managers engineers who used to work for Gill. Let's say then think I'm GonNa Start a company. They think who do I know in. VC They think I remember the Gill is a VC ten. So that's kind of a common thing but that's sort of implies that someone knows us was an engineer. Google and certainly we get tons of interesting companies that we fund that are actually much further afield and we liked like that so one of the things we like is actually big industries that are right for disruption because they haven't had tech before and so I'm looking at a trucking company out of Nebraska. Right right now or it's not really tracking company but it's tech for trucking company and so those come to us in different manners when I actually met I guess sort of through an accelerator. My my grandfather on my dad's side was actually a truck driver out of Nebraska. My old man grew up on a on a farm when they moved into town was like one one hundred people so if you ever come across Holstein Nebraska. It's a tiny town in the most people in Rask of never even heard of outside hastings. If you're due due diligence you see the sign for for it. You'll know that's that's where Part of my family comes from so okay. Where do you guys stand in the whole allocation process because I know so you guys have been around the VCE shop been around for like five six years you you joined about a year ago? y'All have invested in thirty forty companies A little bit more than that but but yes order to totally right which is so. We had a fun. One that was started in two thousand. Thirteen vintage doesn't thirteen fourteen. And then we raised a fun too and I was in the lucky position which is a nice position to be in which I got to come in when fun too was just being deployed and so we're now about fifty percent deployed deployed from fun too and we're GONNA kick off fundraising for fun three. Sam Did you guys get upset or it was to say. Do you just kinda smile okay. Didn't Travis Oh yeah good come over the name it's it's pretty close the all's name. What's the name of his new fun? I think it's ten to one hundred or some I'm paying one ten totally fair. I was laughing. I don't think that's the same no different from Travis. I think in many different way in many ways. Okay let's let's stay on kind of themes on what you guys are looking for industries. Maybe get a little more specific as you. Can you mentioned trucking. How do you sort of funnel down what what comes across your desk? As data and tech is such a wide funnel or filter. Are there any areas that you think in particular are y'all's focus focus or is it something that you're pretty open to just about anything. It depends which access to go on to some degree so one ax is like I know that one of my partners if there's it's an interesting proprietary data set involved something that's built up over time let's say or or aggregated from multiple sources. He gets excited. This is Gil. He's been a lot of time with data sets and proprietary data. He will get excited about anything like that. So if anything comes across the transom like that I noticed that it to him because I know it's just got a higher likelihood ahead of getting him excited. How does he even come across those? I mean it's funny because you know we're a public investor and my pin tweet for the longest time because I get this question every every single day as people would email me mab where I go to find global valuation historical for stock markets around the world. And there's about a dozen sources uses listeners wider to the show notes but every single day someone would ask me and so there's all sorts of different sources different looking. You know cousins of each other but the people are certainly always on the lookout for unique and to me. That's not even unique. When that's one that just you got to kind of dig for how rare these days? How hard is it and then how? How often is it that it's not public that it's totally proprietary? Gets it seems like it'd be kind of the the gold at the end of the rainbow. Almost almost. How public is it like the Gill is the person to reach out to just like how does even find these like the people will say? Okay Gill Man I got well. I think they're okay so there's kind of two the different sorts of VC's. I think I think people are sort of more inbound and outbound rights and there are some shops that have a particular thesis and they think that the agriculture business is ripe for disruption and therefore they're going to figure out who's solving that problem and then there's I think a majority of who are much more open to entrepreneurs talk coming to us and telling US I've spent eighteen years in the trucking business. There's an opportunity here and help. Educate us about the opportunity. We're much more of that ladder. Sort which is if someone comes to us but you know one thing that would be common and I did this when I was running my company which is I was running an online marketplace. And so I wanted to know okay. Who has thought about online marketplaces which investors have done a lot of investing in online marketplaces is two thousand thirteen? So it wasn't quite the these he wasn't quite as exploded it as it is now but so someone who has invested in satellite data companies. Or you know who has invested in location data companies and so then. The look at Descartes Carte labs is in our portfolio and they have satellite data for agriculture. So then you're building something sort of similar. You've got drones and you're using drones to predict traffic patterns. Well you can in kind of Co an investor who liked descartes might also like my my drones for traffic patterns the You know it's funny so building off what I saw about earliest. My Dad's side is we we come from a farming family and so we still do. We actually just had Milo harvest recently but manage Some farmland western Kansas which is really an incredible asset class. It's almost impossible to allocate to. It's almost like ninety five percent private and not private being institutions but sort of individuals and families families with despite that being one of the largest asset classes than world that is Kinda uncoordinated anyway. But it's funny because it still. I mean it's it's getting a lot. More tech focused August tractors and everything. But still I look at it and I'll go out to Kansas. Say how're people even involved in this at all it's like all rose. It's all just like a huge huge grid like you can see in probably five ten years this is going to be like almost completely automated right anyway. So it's a it's an area that I'm sure tactic there's a there's a ton of disruption going on but but also with prices so low it's not hasn't been a great Investment for the best three or four years careers and and I don't know about exactly as an investment in the agriculture as an asset class but you can easily imagine that increasing crop yields by five fifteen percents can have a huge impact. And I'm a believer in space is the next frontier unlike but not like space travel although that's interesting as well but more or like using drones using satellites. All of what we can do with that information can really affect the decisions. Traditional industries are making sure like I mean even just like the plot of quarter of land. There's like some hot spots that a satellite or you could see from above that. Historically you just say well we're not GONNA as much either anyway anyway so talk a little bit about Maybe feel free to use examples the past year. You can't evolved into the pool. Full interviews see any particular our companies you guys have invested in over the past year. Anything that you're particularly excited about Jimmy. I can tell you about a couple that I've sort of led the investment on because those are always exciting so I did one recently. I hope I'm going to do it. Justice it's called strategy. And this is building it static pages for for your for your wordpress website so over a third of the Internet is hosted on wordpress and growing so everyone is using wordpress. But it's bloated. It's got all. These plug begins increasingly insecure. So open to hacking and slow. And I'm not talking about just your personal blog. I mean you know USA Today. Google uses wordpress impress So there's this other trend which is to have static pages so listeners. What does that mean just a page of text essentially and so that can load really quickly? You can't hack static page hosted on a content delivery network. So she's got this great. She's she and her. Ah The two CO founders. They're building this tool that allows you to convert your wordpress site into a static page but still use the word press front end. So that if you've got a large marketing department Hartman you don't have to give up what you know whereas now we have the ten when ten web page is a static page but you have to have a developer or someone who can program in order to make those changes so she's Kinda got the best both things there but then her. CTO is the person who invented PHP. which is the programming? Language that wordpress is written written in. And so he's been his whole career working on making the web faster so I think it sounds like a small things to be able to compile compile your wordpress site but it's actually an interesting technical challenge and I think they're the perfect team so what I'm looking for is not just. Do I believe in the trends but also do. I believe that this is the right team to solve that problem. And how do you determine that like I. You know I'm a quant right. So a lot of this stuff stuff for me is a little squishy and I find it harder often more obvious. In retrospect but what what are you looking for when you say the right team like is it that they have a background. They're passionate. What yeah I mean my previous lessons of what I have done? The past fight couple decades is just scale companies. And when you're scaling companies what you're doing is interviewing people all day so I think my title I know my title was CEO at both my previous roles roles. But actually I would just just recruiting. And so I think it's a similar sort of challenge to hiring people like there isn't enough traction. At the Steve's I'm investing in Dan it's not really a spreadsheet thing it is really the people need to be able to sell me on their vision like explain the trends to me the macro trends that are coming together so they need to sell me but they're going to need to sell future rounds of funding. They're going to need to sell all their future. Hires because I want this team to go from seven people to two hundred people's they need you'd be able to bring on people and they're going to need to sell customer so that ability to explain the vision which the CEO. Miriam is fantastic at selling. That vision is one of the big things. I'm looking for sticking his company for a second. How does this monetize is something that they sell like a like a Saas model or they're selling to the end user or is it only enterprise like how does it end up working? Some of it's early enough that some of the thing that we will be working on together is just what what what are the best channels and so they have lots of customers. Who are on their wait? Lists and eager for this but making sure those are the right customers right and so generally. This is replacing. Sing your hosting provider. So people are used to paying for their website to be hosted and this would replace that subscription so you could say they just price it exactly the same and go through similar channels or there are different creative things you can do. She could be selling into agencies who maintain produce these websites websites on behalf of but thinking through different channels and testing those and deciding which tests and how much resources to put them is still some of the art socially we go to wordpress blog. We we I I A couple of my favorites We've got a couple of buddies who still have listeners. Know these guys but jake economic and and Swath Dumb Daren in why you professor both still have the old school like blog spot but it's like the original theme from two two thousand and six or whatever it is and they refused to change in it's such a great relic were version. I Dunno ten point. Oh my blog spot I keep teasha. Keep Alan my But I remember because I was at Google when we acquired blogger site. I have those t shirts proudly still in rotation they could probably find someone ebay somewhere by the way ebays. I'm listening a cooler on ebay right now. This is totally unrelated to anything but it is the godawful worst experience. There's a a couple of these legacy old school multibillion dollar companies that are ripe for an. I'm sure there is some unrelated. Just had to throw that in okay. So what other companies in the last year and the others that come to mind that you're particularly excited about or good examples kind of how y'all think. Yeah although I could have picked up on a on a thing about Ebay yeah baby you look at all the things that have been picked off of the Ebay and craigslist and so the coming. I've been running for. The past number of years is an online marketplace for used cars and the whole idea being being. We spent a lot of time to think through how centralized versus decentralized a marketplace. Do you want to build and and you get to ebay which is very decentralized. And there's no there's no guarantees of anything in terms of your experience or the shipping or anything else right and so and yet building very centralized marketplace where we're doing the pricing thing and we're doing. The customer support is much harder proposition. But I think it's an interesting change in our whole economy essentially having marketplaces and peer to peer your marketplaces and and I haven't formalized my thoughts enough to know exactly. What are the implications for society? Things that have changed into this peer to peer marketplaces. Here's here's a good example and this is something that listeners will probably start signing hearing me talk about but there's been this trend of essentially essentially securitising or standardizing items. So you mentioned. There's a lot of sites now we look. I WANNA sell my iphone X.. Like go go on to Gazelle or any of these in. There's like a very specific price which is great you know and then and then vice versa if you're buying or selling something but then there's the ninety five percent of products that that you know. It's still a mess. Why doesn't exist as site? It's almost like a consignment clearinghouse. We like look trying to do this in my closet the other day I was like I have all these old clothes. I'm not going to list them on an even notices embarrassing posh Mark Threat Apt Greta up or whatever and I was like i WanNa mail them all into someone. I'll give them. I don't know half the value. Just you sell them or donate whatever information I know there is for threat up on for women for men. There's nothing like that. At least I could find but it'd be cool if there was a and there are some areas of the world where this is happened. We had on the podcast longtime ago. Van Simmons One of my favorites. Who helped to invent the grading for baseball cards and comics comics? So you know you're GONNA buy Superman one here's the rating so you know exactly what you're getting in so many others world. It doesn't seem like anyone solve this. There was a company I saw recently. That's Kinda doing it. Called remove base out of San Francisco men if you want to be an entrepreneur and nightmare entrepreneur is the the problem is it's a nightmare. It's the worst I'm starting to get some grey hairs. Now losing my hair bags under my eyes been doing this ten years. Here's but being A. VC is kind of like being on. I mean people think it's an easy job and many standpoints because you hold the keys but it's still you're running a entrepreneurial company oh absolutely I mean we. The Fun thing is that there's really five of us. The as I said I have two partners. But we're a small team and we're in L. A. L. as big so I'll go and I'll sit in the corner of one of our portfolio companies because our portfolio companies. Some of them have three hundred people and they have a couple of floors in some space. So I'll go in kind of sit in the corner and asked US coffee machine from time to time because like we're as a startup I mean we're a startup visa. Fun We're still squatting around town so it definitely still has all that entrepreneurial Hessel which I like so yeah. It's funny because the back in the day ten years ago I used to be like. Yeah I WANNA start that idea and then having been through this a few times. I'm like no I just want someone else to do it. So if you find anyone working on anything like that keep us in mind. Because I think that's a problem a problem to solve. I can tell you about another. You started that it was. It was a little tangent on the on the Ebay side of John. Spencer I can tell you about other companies that are really exciting. We invested in pretty. The early company called probably genetic that is it's really direct to consumer which is not our user it's a direct to consumer genetic tests for targeting parents parents with autistic children and the founders are these incredibly knowledgeable about bio informatics and have a passion around rare genetic diseases and it takes and I'm going to forget the number but it takes on average like seven years for someone to find out that they've actually got one of these rare genetic diseases and yet nowadays with what we can do with genetic medic testing. It's possible to find that out much sooner and avoid a lot of pain and frustration is earned enough sort of information and markers is available today in this from someone who doesn't know in two thousand twenty to kind of give you insight into that information. Yeah I mean it depends which part you're asking so one can you diagnose it with a genetic test yes you actually. Don't need a full genome sequence. You can do the Xm sequencing which is what they're doing and to you can and start with saying we're GONNA do some number of the most common rare genetic diseases to then the other part of the question. Which I think is another interesting question which is and then? Let's say you're diagnosed. Does that help kind of like so green now. You know you've got something and the answer is it does. And so especially the reason. They're starting with autism. Children recently. Diagnosed is because you will spend years as a parent trying to help your child learn to speak when if you knew that the chances this is our one in a million that your child is going to develop proper speech you might avoid some of the pain of going through years of that sort of therapy so or you might change your profile. I'm not at the best example but there's a variety of your your treatment protocol changes. And so how does the company setup is it pure genetic task do they then connect to providers. Here's what's the what's the model for the company where they yes there. There live if anyone would like to check out probably genetic I think it's probably genetic dot com and it is a variety of partnerships ownerships. They're not doing the sequencing themselves which is increasingly becoming a commodity and even the bioinformatics piece. The ones the ones the sequencing has happened there. Actually outsourcing atfer now but I think they might bring that in house but you know again early days startup style. So it's really around helping. It's almost more around helping parents navigate this because there isn't a process right now. Where if you went to your physician you have the best physician? You've got some top university physician. It's not easy Z.. To know how to then order genetic the right test and get that back and right now usually still cost thousands and thousands of dollars whereas actually if you have an autistic it diagnosis. Your insurance will likely cover it in eighty percent of the time. So there's a variety things they've just made it much easier and ended some about that. But it's really about the passion of these individuals were I truly believe that Lucas. WHO's the CEO? If he weren't doing this he would still be doing that. It's like something like that. Like he has a passion around solving connect diseases. Well there's so much going on that space I mean. I'd studied genetics back in college. Probably before my crew path diverge but it's been super super interesting to see it develop the a lot of the companies nowadays the ancestry in the twenty three and me. And we've always. I've always wondered why if fire was a competitor to twenty-three me Phi was a billionaire I would say why wouldn't we just do this but have the test be completely free. Because they're not like one hundred bucks or something and and then just try to build the world's largest database a medical information anyway. But you're starting to have all this information but it's sort of this critical juncture where it's it's still a lot of it some of it's useful but some of it. It's unclear so I saw a start up the other day. This doing really well. It's targeting like the microbiome and they sequenced and then they prescribe some probiotics but it was weird because it's unclear if it seems like the sciences there for your. You're the diagnosis right but the prescription. Well this kind of goes to my point about you were saying it's kind of squishy. It is kind of squishy so what I WANNA do is back someone who has a PhD in Bioinformatics X. Who is knows? Actually what is State of the art and so a lot of what I what you at the stage that we're investing in. It is still the squishy stuff stuff. which is this person? The person who knows exactly what is possible and is going to be able to understand the and execute so that's the other piece by some people are great raided. Sally you also need to couple that with the ability to execute is y'all shop setup as one where all right so let's say this company or another one search growing does well do guys than lead fallen lowndes rounds you handed off or do you on the board or you involve house. Work depends a lot of times James. We're kind of agnostic about taking board seat. Because one of our main goals has helped them get to their next milestones and at some point they've outgrown our our need and also will then have other portfolio companies. Who are back needing our help? And so you know at this point if a company if it's coming to a vote of the board award it that is a very bad sign that we shouldn't be at the point like these are small companies and I might be having weekly meetings with my companies when they're really going through like AAC busy you know product launches that sort of thing and so you know my influence should not be determined by whether or not I have a board seat at this so it's not super important. What's important to me is that I have have a good relationship and feel like we're actually able to add value and yeah the boards? Sometimes we take him sometimes so I am on the board of strategy. I'm not I'm probably genetic that cool give you one more spot any more companies that Cross your brain another local L. A. One is health tensor so health tensor is is like an assistant for doctors helping them pull out diagnoses and write their notes. Essentially which doctors find this tool that team that's built it released Mart Mart. Am L. engineers built this tool for doctors. Doctors love it. That's great but then you get into the go to market and say well you know. Doctors can love it but you're selling into hospitals. This is a huge long sales cycle. I've seen that I don't necessarily want to always play in that space. It's a test phase but what they're actually doing is talking to the hospital. CFO or the people in charge of looking at insurance reimbursement and they can run historic data. So they can say look. We're going to parse through all the doctors notes from the past six months year worth of data data. And we're going to pull out what you could have built but didn't bill so Dr Might Be. I might be treating you for one thing knows you're obese but we didn't necessarily bill out coach the recommendations for the full treatment there and so they can run through and and do much better job of clarifying doctors love because it makes the doctor's job much much easier because doctors are spending way too much time sort of classifying their notes but then it's a good go to market strategy to actually be able to work with the doctors which is where they're passionate. It seems like such a Messy Archaic World Still. I mean We talk a lot about this sports where analytics being a quant you know. I know that there's a lot of evidence in the NFL for example. We're in the playoffs right now. Where the coaches just make decisions that go in direct conflict of what all the historical odds would say and there's some very clear biases with like going forward on fourth down but it would be similar to me in in a doctor setting where so much of it is not yet computer-assisted? You know there's I mean there's very obvious examples through history the radiologist and stuff where you know. Computers is much better at coming up diagnosis than maybe the doctor on his own is and so. It's still surprising to me that you haven't seen gene and I'm sure it'll happen. This sounds like kind of what this company singing about much more of a A. Maybe it's a I assisted world and maybe it was on your show with Alex. Kava where he talks about radiology and I think he makes a good example which is and then you think radiologists all go away. Because I I can do radiology bit better. But actually the radiologists become the really intelligent value. Add and we have way more radiology and all of a sudden we're doing we have radiology for your pet. And I think the interesting implications of where that's going in and then I think you also always have to look at the incentives so you follow the money and I think one one of the big things that's interesting and healthcare right now as moved to value based care where it used to be that the CFO of the hospital or the hospital was doing the best one all the beds were full and that was always the incentive. Was You know if you get shoulder surgery and then you get another shoulder surgery. They bill twice and there's no real downside to that and in fact your incentives are to have the beds full and now we're moving to value based care which is where the incentives in the payments are around fixing the shoulder keeping people healthy but but I think that opens up a whole lot of interesting investment opportunities to well. You're seeing what one medical is getting ready to go public. I think here soon so. IPO News. I've seen a lot of like one medical Michael Four therapists or one medical four. Will the therapy space. You know I mean given kind of where our world is. Seems like a lot of opportunity there as well. A lot of the trends we've seen it seems like an area that's pretty ripe for disruption being the wrong word but advances so anyway all right before we move on anything else. We could talk about this all day anymore. anymore companies that are under brain anything. You're excited about that. You like to fund. Oh you haven't seen anything any other thoughts you know. I think it's interesting being in La. That's a big trend. That's been exciting. Just the rise of L. A.. I mean I moved here only a year Eriko after a couple of decades in the bay area in in the Sand Hill road scene and I think we have of our portfolio. La based Oh and hopefully growing. What are you guys have done? What twenty thirty podcasts? A lot of my eyes I love. I love the podcast. You're a vet now a lot of those. La Abass Shaw. Only doing it's called L. A. Venture and I'm only doing l.. ABC's and I keep being tempted to 'cause. I have a lot of friends from San Hill Road. Who come down here they say okay? Let me be on your podcast. And it's like and I was like I do it if they are on like a few boards down here and the answer is no. I'm only doing do you guys end up crossing over with some of these firms. Cohen busting on the time all the time so a lot of as I said like seven hundred K.. Might be a typical check but it might be a two million dollar round strategy. The company I talked about was a three million in dollar round but we let it with a seven hundred fifty K.. Check so we're always trying to figure out who's the right co-investor for this company and you mentioned before we started recording we were talking about Kinda l. a. and the state of investing and everything else an l.. As funny because it's despite all of the money here I mean it's still in many ways is a media town and even our world the public investing. It's like old school. It's like bonds you know capital group PIMCO now double line real estate state and install a lot of media but you you have seen the percolation of venture money coming in which is great but you mentioned In some ideas about accelerators talk to the audience a little bit about what accelerators are are there any LA. I know there are few and what's anything going on in that world. Yeah I mean. There's there's a few interesting things so yes historically you might think that La Venture investing you. I think five ten years ago people people thought of IT AS MEDIA E commerce but la graduates more engineers than any other city in the country. So it's not that. La is non eight UCLA USC CAL tag. A Harvey Mudd. UC Irvine sat in Southern California. There's Caltech alright is there's some ties I am close with the Caltech crowd for sure not. I grew up across the street. I went to High School Polytechnic. And so I I was across the street so my number one criteria was not to go to. I did not go to Caltech but I am. I do have close ties there but just just wanted to clarify that. LA IS GRADUATES JOINS A lot of engineers and it used to be a decade ago if you wanted to be entrepreneurial and be an engineer you would then move up silicon valley and that's just changed that has entirely league change and and and I think that it's changed mostly because La has the file has started going. But it's also changed in large part because San Francisco L. has become more complicated. If you I was GONNA say like these weird fractured I mean. So I used to live in San Francisco before moving here and then Lake Tahoe. Oh moved here and like oh five or six and started Cambria love the city amazing had particularly Tahoe L. A. also for many different ways as I mean they both have a great quality of life but as you said in the media in particular a lot of commentary or San Fran last handful of years complicated but la. We got the beach Uh I was GonNa ask You about Your Secret Surfing Society get. I don't right now right now. I've just been serving close outs in Venice pretty much so so there's no secret surfing there. I call myself like a wave. Storm surfer royal for the listeners. Who Don't serve? That's like the two hundred dollar board and get at Costco. Big Foam Board Lord. I grew up on skis but actually just took my two year old out skiing anyway. We'll have to go serve some time. I've been taking my four year old and my four year old and six year. Old outs ops the go-to Venice. Yeah there's no secret we're really like right under the Venice pier. Well all right so accelerator right. Say Yeah you have to Hudson accelerators. So I think it's interesting so on so on the podcast I'm interviewing L. A. B. C.'s. And I did fairly recent episode with Paul Brcko at amplify one of the most sort of digital accelerate. And he said you know. We're not an accelerator anymore. We were now at proceed with benefits. Yeah so oh. And then Laurent Grill from Luma launched which used to be one of the other accelerators in town. And maybe I had another. I had a third person who I thought was at an accelerated. And they're like no. I'm not anymore Muko labs which used to be. And it hasn't changed as much. They're not running batches. Very few people are running sort of a traditional accelerator has like a batch of companies unease. But I think what's interesting. There are variety of different things. One is that entrepreneurs people students getting more educated. Everyone is getting more educated about entrepreneurship chip. And there's this huge wave of ownership where everyone wants to be an entrepreneur understands. Entrepreneurship is wants to join a start up. You know wants to change careers every few years. There's none of there's like I'm at my job my job or forty years. And so what accelerators used to offer was some of that education that is now I think think available at every. USC Class you know has anyone who wants being entrepreneurship. Can Take the entrepreneurship class and get some of those basics in furthermore funds are going upstream and downstream a lot more and are much more sort of the traditionally us called like the Andriessen was the first to really get into were providing all these ancillary insularity services. But now like like mine. Even though we're small we roll up our sleeves and get quite involved in in to some degree that some of what the accelerators liters us to provide so I used to be a mentor for Accelerator. XYZ and. I still like doing that but essentially I'm now mentor for my portfolio. I wonder how much you you make a couple of good points almost that you know. There's a lot more templates for the basics of an entrepreneur again ten years ago. If someone's like Oh my God I have idea what to do. I get a lawyer and now you can just go onto. I Dunno Y combinator whoever has the forums and the classes a lot more education. And it's funny because my opinion on this is somewhat flip like maybe I don't know if it was five seven years ago in my head. There's a lot of this kind of money flowing into super early stage and I was like we spend a Lotta time thing about cinnamon public markets markets which can drive them particularly extremes. Wonder if there's just too much money flowing in but then on the flip side said you know what it's actually particularly with the entrepreneurs get to meet and the ideas ideas. It's actually like really incredible positive benefit. I think you know where all of a sudden everyone's like. Oh well we now understand how this works. We can and focus on just growing great companies. I think you're seeing the effects of that. Where a lot of these companies whether it's facebook maybe not as much snapchat here but these companies that meant all these billionaires honey big win our big four billion dollar win for LA recent right? Yeah it was just a couple of months ago. Oh and Yeah Q.. Four of twenty nineteen four billion dollar exit hadn't raised that much money and only from La investors where snapchat had raised from the Silicon Valley. I mean one of the big things get an ecosystem. Going is having angel investors who have some money and so you know silicon valley benefit a huge amount when Google went public and people who were there early made money could become angels. So yeah I hear you on money flowing into venture but I actually think what really dwarfs. That is the a number of people flowing into entrepreneurship. And so you know. Certainly everyone says well. There's a lot more seed funds. Do we really need another seed van. I've heard that well we're inundated with entrepreneurs and they're inspiring entrepreneurs. It's not I don't feel like I'm having to just sort of go. Oh Bag. My brother has started company or something. You know it's funny it so I've been very vocal about my journey on the private side for the last five years in for public guy. You know it's it's funny because if you watch and you spend all day in public markets geopolitical news. You turn into like the most depressed person on the planet all you WanNa do expect the market to crash and go down. And that's that's part of just the media news low general if you're a private market investor and you focus on early stage entrepreneurs you're like the most optimistic person on the planet all day long. You see these incredible passionate people that are focusing on amazing problems and it's almost every day certainly every week where I like holy crap. That's an amazing idea. I never thought about that. What a cool approach a great success and all you WanNa do is save money and put it into these investments so it's a very odd barbell Mentally lease so listeners. I encourage did you get involved. You don't have to invest but at least starting to follow you know what some of these companies are doing. What are some good resources? So you mentioned accelerators who who are still the big couple of Y combinator techstars. Yeah L. A.. Are there any more in. La Really big ones. Big Ones. I mean like I mentioned Muko amplify what Muko just to. Mugger just hired someone from sequoia just to be like to show what the trends are happening. Muggeridge US be like our local accelerator. who had four billion they incubated honey And now they just hired a partner out of Koya to join their team but you know. So there's there's that aspect but also I think getting involved as an angel investor won. It makes you a happier happier person in my anytime. Biased I agree. I'm just reading the investment memos. So you don't even have to invest but sitting. I sit on syndicates. I used to sit on more syndicates. It's and I said on now but just there's a lot of you know. I listened to the full ratchet. I'm listening podcast because I live in Pasadena and none of my work is in Pasadena so like I listened to nick. Moran on the full ratchet and you know he runs a syndicate that anyone. Can you have to be credited. Investor you can join his syndicate. Read his deal memos by sit on my ex Kugler Syndicate mailing list. And you see these deals go through and the great thing about syndicates. As an angel investor is you can write a couple thousand dollars checks so you actually can build a portfolio because with venture investing were betting for the home run. And we're okay. If a lot of our investments go to zero and so you WanNa make sure you you don't do angel investing where you end up in writing three checks for twenty five fifty K.. And then realizing that's all that money you have to invest or WanNa talk about the first. There's funny because we had Tom Williams Williams on the podcast. Who's done a lot of syndicates? And we're talking to him and he's like we'll map. How many syndicates do you follow? And I said well all of them and he said what are you talking about. I was like Whoa. I sign up to follow all of them. Because I just like seeing all of the deal flow and reading the memos and downloading the DAX and you don't invest in many of them but I just love seeing what's going on and I said you can do that for free and listeners. I'm not gonNA tell you you but it's self accreditation you could sign up on angels and we fund earn republics invest all these other sites and at least follow along. And you can do it where you don't even have to put real money work but eventually yeah a lot of them have like a thousand. Dr My biggest gripe is the companies at least you guys are different V. C. But the companies that do syndicates and we'll have these very large wealthy by definition because you have to be accredited in many cases directly relevant investors investors. But I've say it's I'm trying to think of the percentage that don't do updates. Maybe it's half the Dole update or any ass. Because there's there's so many times where we'll talk to these companies. Hey we're looking for this. Do you know anyone who would be a good head of sales or Yada Yada and it's we also did a crowd funding round and so from someone who's been updating its very massive resource and it's crazy me and the ones that don't do it so companies you should do it at least use that resource of impassioned and Involved investors and not to mention one of the biggest benefits of the from a private investors side is a lot of tax benefits. We talk about. This aren't GonNa get into it now but the SP s rules also in benefits of investing in these companies. You can also do it in. IRA's room for another episode. What I wanted to ask you about is something I struggle with which is in? This is true also in public markets but it's particularly obvious in private private markets because public markets. You buy the You by the US stock market get thousand securities you buy venture portfolio and can you. Maybe have thirty names fifty names etc and these power law outcomes like honey where I'm for a fund to return three five six seven eight nine ten x you know it's often dominated by these few massive winners. Can you talk a little bit about how that how you think about that awesome. Follow on questions but it's something. I struggled a little bit with. Yeah I can solve your struggles but yes you summarized. Is it well. which is when we're looking for these? You know I think the typical venture investor would say they look for people products market as the three criteria and market markets. We have to believe that. There's a billion dollar outcome here or give her take give or take a billion here billing there and so we have to also believe that the entrepreneurs aligned aligned with that and that's what they want and so you know you have to at some point thing about like different exits here. Not every pay pal is not everyone has four billion dollars sitting in their back pocket so but I think one of the interesting things that I don't have the numbers on on the top of my head but seeing a lot more sort of non traditional acquirers in a sense which is the traditional old school industry needs and wants tech and innovation. And so there's now acquirers that are target or Albertsons it sends Greg Kraft here who's One point two billion under management a venture down the street. They have like a new tracker refund with Albertsons because they're seeing interesting opportunity there so I think just thinking about the large exit. That's possible but it it also means. Reid Hoffman talks a lot about blit scaling. We are pushing our entrepreneurs to there is no supply line left. They're going for it but that leads to back to the mental and they'll health leads to you have to be ready to sign up for that journey and some people don't and I think if I start another endeavour you know probably like podcast it doesn't it's time doing not doing this for the billion dollar exit. Here's here's kind of what I'm getting at is so you know in the VC's have a little bit different mandate because they have investors but if you're an individual individual let's say you have this good problem. which is you invest in one hundred companies? How many ever go bankrupt? Some of them return your money some from two to three to five times. But let's say you start to have a few of those unicorns or or a hundred bagger investment. You know now just. The company hit that product market fit is crushing it whether they did any follow on rounds or not. But let's say your investment is now seeing the multiples but let's say it's at say one hundred x fifty x whatever is but the future looks incredibly bright. How does one start start to think about selling because it could be a situation like goober or many other companies that could go up ten x from there and all of a sudden? Now you have a thousand rosenberger which would return be all the other ninety nine positions irrelevant but also you have the very real risk that it could be bad example because it's not really vc funded but we work where all of a sudden you get to this point and then it goes down eighty percent. But there's there's a million examples of this Is it something something where people think about sewing a little along the way is it something where You have any hard and fast rules or it's case by case basis I different thoughts on it so one one is from a from the employees point of view. Because that's where I've sat is I saw Google public and have a lot of people holding onto a lot of Google right and not knowing it was great outcome for people to make a million dollars. But maybe you could sit on that and make a lot more or you know fill in the blank and then you know my friends at twitter twitter my friends at Uber. All of these companies going public and I. I tend to tell my friends when they're going public like figuring out about how much you want to sell sell half of that and then tell another half a little while and that way. Hey you know every six months you're happy. If in six months it goes up or down. Because you're just selling half but I mean you're more the investor on on that side of things and then from the investor point of view. The Way I think about it is sort of a couple of fold so one is we're reserving half of our investment as in one hundred percent of our investment Ah We're we have a you know a million dollars company we we're reserving neither million we could put back into that company as our pro into a next round and we liked to be as data driven driven not surprisingly data focused fund. We like to be as data driven as we can be around milestones that we want to see that would make us believe and so but that's having very insider knowledge right. I mean we are sitting on the board of a company. We know what is realistic to expect but we light light to try to be as disciplined as we can about knowing the milestones and then saying if those milestones are hit then then we will reinvest put more money back in is smart to do that ahead of time to Avoid the problem of the goal post being moved you know so many investors loved play kind of their portfolio and decisions. Just shoot from the HIP and at least establishing the benchmarks gives you an anchor from which to work with. Can't tell you how many time in the public markets people will just say I'm by it and there's GonNa play by ear but I I think you give some good examples about way to think about it look listeners you get a fifty hundred bagger by the way reference will put in the show links the old podcast we did with Chris Mayer With one of my favor books hunter baggers in the public markets. The beauty of private equity and cliff hasn't actually wrote a piece about this recently because for the longest time people said private equity should return more because of illiquidity premium. But he kind of had this thought experiment. We flipped on your head and said look we. We know how poorly people behave in public markets. Every single day can open up the Wall Street Journal turn on CNBC and see how smarter wr and quotes all day long long to part of the beauty of private markets is. You can't sell something even if you wanted to now. At least there's now some secondary is in in things for employees as liquidity. And everything else but it also removes that daily Mr Market Psychosis of the temptation to sell things in for many of these hundred baggers which this book examined in public markets. It took them ten years. You know it's not people in their head they think I'm GonNa buy something and they're like. Oh my God amazing allies double my money but in private markets and in public listeners. It's often the top five. The the all the returns and the public stock markets determined by the five percent of the massive winners so being a private market investor can help you get around that problem at least because you have no more ability to sell it all I don't know but Any last thoughts on VCU. I wanted to own a few more topics Anything else on your brain brain about as we look into the future decade in each changes in VC. Any thoughts on things you wish would change. Be Different excited about depressed about I mean generally obviously I well even obviously I'm sort of depressed about the state of our country say on many different things and I think innovation the big bright spot night so you know where I'm not a heavy public market investor but I. I don't really want my money in this. I don't really want to not. But as a GPA. Piano putting a lot of my own personal money into my fund because I do believe that innovation in our country is the huge bright spot. I think there's lots of interesting than interplay intersection between private enterprise and governments. You know sitting at Google for many years. Utah that a lot of things. You'd like you. Our government. Government should decide what freedom of expression is what should be allowed. What shouldn't be allowed but actually Google and facebook are making those decisions you know? We were talking about genetic sequencing. Well you know if you're worried about your data and having your data about like what websites you went to well. It's a whole different thing when you're being toilet and the toilet knows you know as analyzing European be in your shower knows your moles. And you're you know so so figuring all that out is going to be in privates you know a Lotta Times. Private Tech Hey companies and so making sure that there's good interplay between how we want the rest of our institutions to run. I think is a lot of opportunity and a lot of responsibility. August twenty twenty and finally feels like we're living in the future now I I I laugh about that because some of the things you're talking about you're starting to see come to reality and it's wonderful to see scary a little bit like your your former company when when you join Google Oh two you have kind of like the hits background. I love talking about this for a little bit. We've got Stanford Harvard Google Shift. which will talk about? I was in San Francisco same time so a lot of early Google friends. There's not to many medicines in the world but that's why I the original members G. Mail because I add some some google friends pass along that email address I used to crash the Google parties and Tahoe before they went public used us probably attended some of those Google and burning man. Yeah same thing. Same thing ah I used to joke. I said man. This company was making so much money through the best part. Is Google redoing Google. Well I mean as I was saying earlier like a lot lot of what we were all doing. What's hiring because I join me? It was five hundred people I left when I was sixty thousand mile. Lord yeah so it was. We doubled in size every six months or something for a long long time when I was there into where it was the order. Was Google then business school now. Business school and Google. So yes like what did you say they hits my mom Jason expecting you to show up with the San Fran puffy vest. My mom says I look paper. Yeah so you know. I'm from southern California went to Stanford I'm kind of a flip flop wearing person. I like to surf the beach break and then I went to business school and I'm not really a so you know I'm not really a spreadsheet I mean what I say math computer science like I can handle a spreadsheet but like wasn't of interest really so I when I graduated. I had no job. All my friends had jobs like months in advance and I really didn't like I did not know what I want to know too. Well that was that was like the Internet Armageddon head and so I graduated college in two thousand all. My buddies had started moving out there in the late nineties of San Francisco. And they're like you guys yet and there's jobs every right sir they're like. This is the best time it was the best bubble ever. I loved it. Yeah but I called the end of it so I I was there like in the aftermath. Well the first company I was at Live Person WE IPO in March of two thousand. So why went to business school. And he's still around still company but at the time not a profitable public company and so it was going to have a lot of layoffs so anyways that that was two thousand live person live person. It's like chat for e commerce And and at the time it was this notion that people were scared to put their credit cards in. This is ninety ninety nine maybe years and so people were scared for their abandoned shopping. Carts still a thing. When you see like the pop-up Live person powered a lot of that. which made Atanas presents to me? It's so make sense actually anyway so we then But the point was the the starts recruiting out of business school no one wanted NBA. I don't like highlight highlight still highlight that I have an MBA. But yes so I joined Goule in like the first thing we all needed to do is just hire more people because there was so much money that you know comedian stand on a literal sandbag and be like you know. I'm going to discuss the numbers. But you can't discuss this outside of Google because we're doing so well we don't want people to know but we couldn't go public so the first thing I worked on and was actually our ability to go public. I worked on our billing system which is at the time we were still already multiple billions of dollars in revenue but in two thousand ten increments and and so. We had to close the books every month. We need Oracle to produce an invoice but we were collecting logs from a server. That's based in Hong Kong for Chinese Internet. Searcher with a Japanese advertiser and the server would go down and all the logs wouldn't be available and yet we need to close the books so basically. You're the one responsible for that guy who just sent one hundred million in Google invoices listeners. There was there was some guy a couple years ago. I think what it who had had sent a hundred million to facebook and Google on someone else and just invoices the got paid and he's in jail somewhere now but it's like a whole operation anyway well but there is a lot of that to sort out which was I hope Google doesn't mind me saying this but to some degree if we didn't know with his pre public company but like if we we didn't know how much an advertiser does we just wouldn't build them because we didn't know and we just figured they won't complain if we under bill always because we just like the billing System was hard and there was a lot of. You know it's way more complicated now. But a lot of people who wanted only clicks on the weekdays on the weekends and you know you had to make sure everything was coordinating all. You're doing I mean. Look it's more is to. I personally have known. Four companies either friends or We've known that have have had five actually money embezzled non trivial amount of money. We're like employees are just writing checks or whatever happening. A reason was four million bucks but just because it's you know there's money moving around you know it still. I don't know how you get away with it in twenty twenty but people think you do all right so then Google and then you had the inspiration to start. Shift was I- Benigo a long time. There and I said things like I'm being really entrepreneurial I google starting a lot of things. I had a lot of latitude. I was working with Chris Sacca very closely. We shared an office for many years. I Google starting projects and I'm being entrepreneurial that's why I'm staying. I'd been here. You know almost the third a third of my life when I left and then went on maternity leave actually and one of my friends I invested in a shift when it was just a powerpoint point I mean it was just a friend of mine so my angel investment than I went on maternity leave and he said you know maybe you could help me get it going and then I really became an entrepreneur and realized how ridiculous solicit is to say European entrepreneurial when someone you know serves you quail lunch every day and so then I went that began my entrepreneurial journey I think for me. The biggest hook was probably just that speed of entrepreneurship and being at a startup. Really suits me like I really like the. We're not all buttoned up and we're not like I don't you know what I'm saying until I come out of my mouth and we were moving at a million miles an hour and building something that people really lights and we're thanking us for building in so I just got hooked on that I was waking up going to sleep thinking about my startup. It was exciting. Chaos as better way to describe it but hopefully control chaos and so you are also involved in the number fundraising rounds to. Oh Yeah what was. What was that experience like? Oh Yeah I was just like we spend five years on Sandhill road kind of so we did a three million sita twenty million series a fifty million series B. An thirty. I don't know we raised like two hundred million any fun stories from that time. You you know it's just like looking back on it I just. It's remarkable how little I knew. Because now all the entrepreneurs icy are way better informed. I don't know how I managed to miss all this. But like our wolf thumb. There there was. We didn't know who was the right investors and we weren't as smart about it as the investor as the entrepreneurs I see nowadays but we say okay take the fun size divide by fifty. Ask Them for that much. Money multiplied by five and. That's what we think are valuations should be but like the really clever but we that was kind of our rule of thumb a Lessons learned on mostly around like we got two great board members. We had an highland capital invest in. They split our series. We ended up with two great board members numbers and I really learned how to the chaos that you talked about the pants on fire. I'm an operational person like I'll go. Go Go and I really learned how to schedule schedule. My board meetings for three months in advance to talk about something strategic that we needed to discuss or else we would never we. It would be so busy just like we are selling cars and we had pigeons shitting shitting on the cars. I need to figure out how to like you know. It was that sort of stuff. If I didn't schedule The strategic discussion. I wouldn't necessarily like have the time. So you know just figuring figure out your board members are so important and so raising money was important but intimidating for me. It was very intimidating march into sequoia and say like you should write. Let me a check for twenty million dollars to buy A. Yeah exactly but I think you know. So figuring out how to navigate all that I guess and so there was also a pitstop at code for America. Right what was what was the impetus for that. Yeah I I still would really feel like I should be doing more in In all facets of life. He's finished that sentence like Chevy doing more. All across the board but Copa America is about bringing tech in government together and looking at how government and tech and really learn from each other. It's not like a leads. Leads the tech people who come and tell government what to do but a lot of our experience of government is in digital services nowadays so the digital interfaces and so helping government kind I get into the twenty first century around Edco for America. We had three areas of focus. Food jobs injustice. But like if you're applying for food stamps in California there is an application that takes six forty five minutes doesn't save state and doesn't work on mobile so you want to apply for food stamps. The answer is I'm so you can't use your phone to do do that. Oh it doesn't save states if you get partway through. You're going to have to start back at the beginning and so you wonder why people are frustrated with government is because they're used to having everything everything on demand and I live next to a woman who lives on the street. A homeless person who orders are Amazon to fake address but the Amazon delivery prison does to deliver it to her tents. But like you. Can't you apply for food stamps. It doesn't work on your phone so we need to find a way of better serving people so now he's as I was saying some bright spots about our country race unless bright spots it goes back that old on the entrepreneur ideas of frustration arbitrage finding the areas that are just like total garbage wjr and government obviously is notorious for this. I mean my God I went to go. Get the new California. You gotta get these real. ID's in even with an employment. You have you done any other. When like five designs? It took me like two hours. I had to go to like five different stations within the DMV and it literally could have taken. I five five minutes but just the most awful experience on on the planet and yet you know There's amazing when you get to work with government mazing people working in government and and yet there's not a lot of. There's a lot of fluidity between my friends who worked at AIRBNB and worked at dropbox and worked at Google and so there's a best practice around like designing a mobile APP. Like you better believe that. Everyone's doing stand up daily check ins the same way if there's some best practices carried but there isn't that there isn't a fluidity where you're working at a city manager for Pasadena Edina now. You're the city manager for like there isn't or you know you're at Airbnb one day and then I turn around and look you up the next day. No you've moved over to the city manager's office and so figuring out how to make that actually work I think is crucial. Because you don't want Google making your decisions about how your data is used. You want you want some you know you want government. You want intelligent entity so excited that for a little while and then was impetus for finally decided. I ended join ten ten well so for me. It was moving to. LA 'cause La's awesome now it's La. I moved here to try it for a year in fully expected to hate it being a mountain guy for a long time. I'm like this is going to be terrible. I'm GONNA give the beach year and then I was like wait a minute. This is kind of the land of milk Kanani. They love it. It's really nice. Sucks you in. And that was twelve years ago. Well I get friends asked me a lot like what China joined. This company joined that company. Should I do this start up and I always say like and people say like some people say like join US start up with a person is a person you want to become the CEO join US startup. That's printing cash and growing like a rocket ship and like there will be a land of opportunity gene and I feel like La is going now from. I've always been intact so you know I want to be in Hollywood but it really feels like like growing startup which is exciting to be part of. It's like the movie business but was much better odds. Oh Yeah I mean. Being a woman in computer science is a good. It's a nice place to be right now and by the way to talk to me a little bit about that I mean and also I'd love to hear a little bit about how you seem to manage manage so much I have one child and it's fucking exhausting. Yeah you've you've done that thrice over I believe threes And also seem to manage a career. Talk to me a little bit about your experience over the ears glum. I mean I'll mix. It depends what day you ask me is really the true answer but yes a we did manage to have three kids under the age of four and then it was pretty clear. We weren't having a four. I sort of like pushing myself as hard as I can until I hit a breaking point and like the three kids under four like we had our breaking in point but to some degree. I've read lean in. I participated in all the female mentorship groups. It really does feel like women like the tenor of being being a woman in business. A woman in tech has really changed the past three four years or something. It's it's changed. Dramatically in terms of how many people are actively. You know that your woman reaching out hands to help like I get offers to sit on boards beyond panels whatever because they're actively trying to have have more diversity of thought and gender and everything else so so that's been exciting. I also have stayed home husband so I just like I have to qualify bovine everything which is my husband. Does all the work which is fantastic and by Monday I am lake. who go to work? Hi I'm so stoked to be a word. Hang so you have a couch in my office. This stupid standing desks thing. I JUST WANNA lying down desk. The Old Madman days. Like I you know except except Martini part. I'd do my best work horizontal probably but my startup journey of shift and like you said like everything looks good from the outside. But like it's total roller coasters posters like shows what I was GONNA say like up into the right like upside down at times and like it was useful for me to have something I cared about more than I cared about out work and because I would have been just one hundred ten percent whatever one hundred percents all that work all the time and that's all it would have done and to have kids who are going to drown themselves in the bathtub. You like up got to pay attention. That's why like surfing too because you might drown and so you don't worry about your powerpoint not being done or something well you come down to Manhattan beach. We have the finest closeouts of anywhere where I was actually up in Drove up to Santa Barbara This past weekend. And it's funny because you have these beautiful point breaks but there's one hundred people on him like Rincon or Malibu so Need to get out at at five. We got a couple of the folks in the office that are in the same category of of surfing. So you organize a trip. Let me know. We'll we'll come join you in Venice as you look forward to the future the next decade. You can answer this in a few different ways as you see fit anything in particular really excited about whether it's an adventure whether it's personal any fun goals near just rolled around any resolutions. Mainly I'm fishing because I need one. I don't have one yet this year listener. Send me a good resolution if you have one for me. Yeah my listeners. Do not send me just talk last. Because I know there's GonNa be five eight holes they're gonNA GONNA save Stop talking to my podcast. They're in your pocket. I have the same problem I host. I liked I just WANNA talk. Yeah I knew. I haven't fully formulated my goal. But something about being optimistic. No I just WANNA keep doing a lot of what I'm doing right now. I love it. I'm so in my honeymoon phase of loving what I'm doing. I WanNa keep listening to what entrepreneurs needed needs are but I still see so many great entrepreneurs that I I would fund a hundred times the number Ervan jars if I could But you know obviously you have to be disciplined and and make big bets but now I just keep doing what I'm doing. Well let's one You know I I. I think it's spot on. I mean one of the reasons that the angel lists and all these other angel networks that I think is so interesting. Is that that even. If you WANNA put in a small amount like say thousand dollars just to follow along so that if by the way they then ended up doing a series series A. or whatever you can participate in the further rounds as an interesting way to think about in the public markets. We used to call this like Warren Buffett or someone would buy one share too so they'd get the annual report so they'd just they keep current otherwise you forget about and disappears like you mentioned it so Such a reviving experience to get to see all all these Wonderful insurers from someone who's been on both sides tw- as you're doing what we do and then being in the entrepreneur side even also be a mentor so the other thing like I did textual. It's too much work. You can be the mentor. But there's an but there's an aspect of you can see then like so I did techstars mentor program. Where I didn't FEMA founder office hours you can be a mentor and see I think they have twelve companies in their in their batch. And you get to see pretty quickly. You don't have to dig in and be like a permanent then you know mentor so different ways of getting involved was been your most memorable investment. Oh I mean probably Google is you know the Google Stiller Shareholder are you cleaned house. I'm still Cheryl. My best investment was joining Google. Not My words was selling and selling as much as I sold and like whatever oh five or or something. Well that's that's the hard part. It's the old bitcoin pizza thing you know. And you can apply that to almost any stock you own in the public markets. There was a book couple decades ago. You guys talking about the coffee canned portfolio. Meaning you buy something you put it in there and then just forget about it forever now. Most people have a hard time doing that because life if intervenes and often you have one stock that ends up becoming twenty five. Fifty seventy eighty ninety percent of the portfolio and that's for other reasons probably unrealistic but there's so so many examples throughout history where it may have been a janitor or plumber that saved over the years and just put money into stocks and never touch them again. I think you mentioned D. AF J. in one of the guys from there at heard on a podcast is his says his goal is to never sell which again would be nice if you have that position but in the real world is a little harder to do but giving it time to compound forever but you always end up having one way or the other which. I loved your advice about outgoing houses because you eliminated that hindsight regretted because that's the the hardest thing looking bags acces man. I wish I had done. XYZ talking me a little bit as we wind this down. What are some resources you know? You mentioned accelerators. Obviously your podcast. AST listeners checkout it's wonderful added to the show notes anything else either from a founder or early stage investor the comes to mind things particularly really helpful mostly podcast listener. So you know I'll I'll subscribe to the strictly. VC newsletters and things. But I listened to tournament. ABC Full Ratchet Tech News. He's ride home pivot. Oh my God I love. She scrapes the funny thing about curious. Wisher years ago I used to just in my head is like. She seem so grumpy all the time but I love her podcast. Yeah Melissa I think pivot is a step up vivid as her with Scott Galloway Way. I think it's a step up from even just care on her own because he's such a pissy big dog since you're the VCR. Argon request this for sure I can you explain. I'd subscribed to seventy five podcasts. We have hired someone and pay him a not insubstantial amount of money. Shoutout Colby. and He curates those podcasts and sends us the top say five each week which I think by the way is a fantastic use of resources but all of this comes from the fact that not a single podcast. APP allows for ratings US and you've probably heard me drone on about this and it drives me absolutely nuts that if I was a podcast up in I don't know four through twenty Winnie that are all undifferentiated. Why not add up so ratings and build a database to where they all think discovery is about other shows when reality at at this point twenty twenty most people will have their shows but not all the shows are good too if you find one let me know invest because it drives me absolutely who episode so my own episodes and tell you which one selects right? So you've done you've done say thirty. We've done probably around two hundred and again like sometimes sometimes it's not necessarily the fault of the host or the gas sometimes you just haven't had a snickers in a while or just whatever. The vibe just isn't great it's not a great show sometimes you're expecting you to be a terrible and then sometimes I think it's a terrible show in the guests are like it's amazing and vice versa but almost universally similar rotten tomatoes if it's rated a ninety eight it's probably good if it's rated a ten. It's probably terrible but we don't have that. Yeah well also also could colby do that and just make make new podcast. That is the Colby's curated podcast. And I'll subscribe to that as possible. Maybe I'm not interested in this so what we do. Is We send out a once. It's a week. Yeah I know but so that's the thing is like I think there's a big trend left for human curation. been doing it with the idea. Armed for six seven years now and it's been a successful business that's but very needs to what we do. You're seeing it some with other areas where it's it's being successful in. Maybe I'll help out here but still it's curation Shen just isn't there's areas where it's just not effective and so in the podcast. The problem as a business model is that apple wakes up tonight turns this feature on and then you know it's done but the point is I am believe me I'd harass these poor podcast founders all the time about it anyway away so listeners you guys find one let me know the breakers the best so far it elites lets you like them and the signal is extremely high. Hi you can go sort Tim. Ferriss Joe Rogan or care Swisher by the most liked and university. They're great upsets. Now you've just turning in this new hour long there's going to be so much innovation in the audio space at audio as an interface. Whether it's for podcasts. Or are you know how we interact with all the content we consume yeah and invoice to You know as far as the at live is watching as everyone massively massively complains about like the announcers during a sports game. It'd be wonderful just to turn them off and turn on someone else anyway. So all right so resources podcast you you do attend any of the Demo days or anything anymore yeah I mean the best resources for me have been that. I'm actually just good at asking asking for help about stuff and I encourage everyone. I see entrepreneurs all day long and it's interesting how I could tell you. I can sort them in terms of whether I gave them good feedback. Be Back based on their like openness to us there are people who don't like it's very hard to pass. Mostly what I do is meet with entrepreneurs and don't fund them right like that is ninety nine numbers and what I do and so having them actually get useful feedback from the people are interacting with is probably what I think a lot of people already out there in those mixes sixes. But they're not taking as good advantage of them as they could be. I go to the Demo Day type stuff but I go sort of to see all the my other CO investors As much I mean sometimes sometimes I I'll go ahead of time And need all the portfolio companies and visit them before Demo Day usually are where do people find. More what you're up to. What's all the best spots? La Venture podcast. And then. I'll respond to emails all day. Long many at ten one dot net I it. It is dot net i. Don't you know an inbox ten thousand. I don't stress if I don't reply to everyone but like send them my way. That's my nightmare. I'm zero zero get. I can't help it I can't help it Many thanks so much for joining us today. Thanks so much for having me. Listeners will add all these to the show notes met favored dot com slash podcast. You subscribe to show anywhere. It's found my favorite currently. Has Breaker Levers Review. We love to read them. I promise thanks for listening friends and good investing.