Mance Rayder on Murray Rothbard
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You won't find this quality at this price anywhere else so stop buying overpriced stocks at the mall or some inferior site that sells socks that fall apart after a couple of washes go the has she socks dot com H.. E. S. H. I.. Socks Dot Com and let them know you're with us. You're GonNa thank me for this one. It's a great product at a great deal all right. Let's start the show. Hey what's up guys. Today's episode is a swap cast. I just recorded it. The the other day. It was <hes> also going out as an episode of Freeman beyond the wall which of course is Pete Raymond Aka man's raiders podcast. It's a great show one of my favorite podcasts out there and he invited me on to discuss Murray Rothbart the man and his legacy legacy so we had a great conversation about that so enjoyed the episode and thanks so much for listening. We need to roll back the state we spy on all of our own citizens. Our prisons are flooded with non violent drug offenders. If you WANNA know who America's next enemy is look at who were funding right now other than the one of these problems are the government doing way too. It's gone. What's up brother good to be talking with you yeah man <hes> well? We're both going to be amuses university next week so I thought a pretty good idea for an episode would be to talk about the man who I mean there would be no Mrs University Without Murray Rothbart and <hes> I've been reading a lot of Rothbart lately. I've been reading a lot of nieces lately and yeah I mean it. Just it never ceases to amaze me. How when I tried to pick up a book and I try to highlight you just end up highlighting everything and you just yeah yeah and so <hes> what was the first thing you read by Rothbart? The first thing I read read by Rothbart was actually <hes> I read two essays <hes> or pamphlets or whatever the first thing was anatomy of the state and then war peace and the state and to this day and maybe I'm biased because those were the first two do I read but that's always when people ask me what to start with with Rothbart. I recommend those two because they're like they're easy. You'RE GONNA finish them in one sitting <hes> you'll finish them both in one sitting probably <hes> and <hes> and they just to me are like still to this day the most hardcore red pelling you could you could give anyone where you you if you really open your mind and read these two as as you're never gonNA look at anything the same way it completely destroys the foundational myths on which the State and war rest and <hes> they're just incredibly powerful. They're they're kind of funny and just like every like you're saying about. Highlight like every sentence is the key sentence every there's not one word that doesn't belong there. They're not one ounce of fat just pure protein for the soul they they're really weird thing about anatomy of the state that when if if people if that's their first thing they'll realizes the first chapter is not you know it's anatomy of the state. So what is the state. No he immediately. It's what is not what the state isn't your end is. The state is not a charity. The state is Emmy. He just he just check off this list of what it isn't and then after he finished after he does that then he goes in the second chapter to what exactly the state is and he just it's this force he he just he paints this picture of this immovable object that will crush you. If you stand up to it if you if you seek to question it and and it's you know like the monopoly on force and it was amazing Yo what's amazing about that piece and I love that he starts with what the state is not because what he's doing it is it's it's a red pill. He's tearing away all the myths. You've heard he's like basically it's not everything you've been told that it is. That's what the state is not and it's not even as if it's not it's a pure. That's why anatomy of the state such a perfect title. It's purely scientific. He's not really even making the argument of like well. We should live in this type of society or this is immoral because it's just this is in reality what the State is agree with it or don't agree with that but this is this is the reality like the state is not the hills in the land. It's not you you can feel like it but it's it's not the state is not a charity. It's not the state will crush you. Does this is all these are factual statements. That is a very hard and to me once you know like I was already like flirting with the Libertarian thing I was like convinced by Ron Paul and in two thousand seven with with antiwar stuff. I was very intrigued by the free market stuff I found Peter Schiff and Tom Woods online and these guys are pretty much sold me but after reading Rothbart after reading anatomy of the state I think there was like no turning back for me. That was like Oh yeah yeah. I'll never after that it's almost like it's a weapon. It's like a little tool that shields you against any future status propaganda you know the what's funny is I read anatomy of the state and it didn't turn turn me into it. It was it was actually a Lou Rockwell book the left the right in the state that they need it always like he opens up the book arguing white drunk driving laws are immoral and I'm just like and that was it. I guess I needed did something a little more. <hes> for lack of a better term I needed something that was more of a fight something that was more of a <hes> like a punch in the gut like really is. Are you arguing this. Are you seriously asleep arguing that drunk driving laws were immoral and then I started to think more and more about it and it's like what I say to people now when I talk about drunk driving laws is I I consider drunk driving laws to be the same thing as <hes> <hes> <hes> going to war preemptive war emmy. You're yeah you're just basically saying <hes> you haven't heard anybody but you have the potential to hurt somebody and the same argument can be. They can make people can make the same argument about guns you you can't own again because you have the potential to hurt someone pretty much anything. I mean if you once you accept that logic. If you just go well you are now in a state where you're more likely to potentially hurt somebody. It's like Oh okay I mean by that logic. You could make being a young man illegal. I mean there's you are in a state where you're more likely to hurt somebody in between the age of fifteen and thirty five then you are when you're like sixty five. I mean the I could run through a lot of stats that will bear that out. You're more likely to get into a violent encounter. You're more likely to hurt somebody else. I mean also just getting in a car. You're more likely to you know what I mean like. What is what is that the that's nothing if we can use that standard then we can use it on anything and that's that's the the ultimate reason why you have to be against all of these policies right like it's not in their best application? Maybe they won't be abused. But how much empirical evidence do you need to to see that when they're being when it's run by human beings it's not always going to be put forward as best application so yeah no joint drunk. Driving laws are terrible reckless. Driving laws might be somewhat reasonable. I mean if you're doing something reckless that could that could potentially potentially hurt someone but there's a lot of good drivers out there. I never got in trouble at once but I know but <hes> so I was talking with someone about Rothbart the other day and the thing that we were talking about. I think it might have been Alex. Moore said I can't remember who it was but it was the fact that he wrote on everything he wrote a five volume set on the history of the American colonies I mean he he wrote about. He is one of the books I have here. The ethics of liberty which I think is I think hopper hopper does the introduction to it and it's a long introduction <hes> hop in his a short history. I think it's called short history of man and he references this book over and over again and I think it's the forgotten book I've I've read it three times and <hes> so he wrote on what ethics would look like in a study he wrote on. I mean betrayal of the American right is basically the history of the Neo Co yeah. You're a NEOCON history and sort of a biography and Tom Woods put that together actually <hes> he wrote on money he wrote. There wasn't a subject he could write e. He couldn't write on and I forget who it was. They told me recently that just how brilliant he was that <hes> it was Walter blocked call them at one point and said you know I've gotten to the point now where I can write like six to eight pages in our and as Ed Murray was like <hes> that's <hes> yeah. That's just like wait. How many do you writing us all right about eighty yeah well? He's he's listened. Murray Rothbart was a genius that that word is overused but it is perfect. <hes> perfectly applies to him. He was literally a genius and nothing short of that. This is a guy who was the he he wasn't a competent historian. He was the best historian of his time. He was the best just economist of his time the best political philosopher of his time this is this is just incredible. I mean this is a guy. Are you telling me you would take anybody like you know if we could reanimate Murray Rothbart you know and he was alive today. Would you take any human being who you think has a better knowledge of monetary history in in in in the world. There'd be nobody there'd be nobody <hes> and then military history. He's your pick also and then libertarian philosophy he'd be your pick for that too. She'd be Your Guy Hike for every important issue to libertarians and his you know. What did he write somewhere near thirty bucks? The Essay is you'll. You'll find stuff up at macys dot org that you know you you forget about or that you never got to. It's like Oh brought borrowed some article on this and it's perfect and you know and then the you know it's it's really amazing to see how people take you know they criticize him or they'll find one thing here one thing there that he got wrong and of course like no one's perfect but but he was right about all of the major stuff all of the major stuff put out such a vast body of work and covered such a you know a an unbelievable amount of different subjects. These incredible is incredible. We should all be in autumn. I have a bunch of stuff on my phone that is just a random lectures of his through the years spanning from the sixties up and up through the eighties and <hes> there is one oh yeah this one the girl the a gold standard before the I can't <hes> the gold standard before the civil war he launches into what seems to be a ten to fifteen minute history of the Christian Russian church he starts talking about I mean and and and I know that history really well and every he nailed everything he nailed calvinism he nailed a he started talking about our mini Anisim. I'm like nobody outside nobody. But he talks about Armenian ISM outside the Church and this is a Jew from New York. I was like what the Hell is going on here the Guidon new and he and he could relate anything to anything I mean he could look at how the church was structured under John how John Cabinet locally structured as church and could relate it to a government he could talk about how it looked like this government in history. <hes> I mean it it it boggles the mind that somebody somebody knew that I mean I just you know and and then of course the idea that like this guy who really on top of his knowledge and being such a great historian the guy who's the founder really really of anarchy capitalism. I mean coined the term and also I mean there were other anarchists and there were other people who believe in freedom and private property along with being an anarchist but he was really the guy who laid out what being an anarchist capitalist is so the idea that there's anyone one in the end cap world that doesn't right away. Just give him the credit for for figuring this whole thing out but the the thing that's really amazing. It's like you see <hes> like in. You know it's like if you if anybody hasn't read Rita need <hes> confessions of a right wing liberal. It's like a great piece by Mary Rothbart and he basically talks about how you know like that. That article was written like longtime ago but he talks about how he's basically had the same political views and you know they they'll call him a Commie me at one point and then like a right wing extremist at a different point and it when you think about it here he is in the in the new left in the sixties talking with all those guys and he's like more radical than any of them more antiwar more you know anti-state than any of them and then you have in with Pat Buchanan and people like that in the nineties and they're like Oh. He's this crazy right winger. He's even more right wing than Pat Buchanan and basically he was believing the same thing the entire time and it's just that these other guys all shift around and you see so much of that in just in like politics today where these guys who like you know you think about what Barack Obama's position on gay marriage was in two thousand eight would basically make you a Nazi in in the Democratic Party in two thousand eighteen two thousand nineteen over ten years that you've gone from the accepted opinions you being a Nazi and you start to realize this is what Rothbart was contending with for most of his career that he had these principled views than the political you you know the the temperature of the political climate changes all the time but he's just like laser focused on liberty hating the state and opposing war for that for the entire time I let's take a quick second and thank our sponsor for today's show which is a brand new sponsor. I'm I'm very excited to have them. 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You're going to look like a million bucks without having to spend a million bucks. I A highly recommend you check them out. So once again. Good of in Cerro watches dot com use the Promo Code Problem Fifteen for fifteen percent off your entire order all right. Let's get back into the show. The crazy thing about Rothbart is his small little articles his articles that are and maybe his papers you know something like anatomy of the state or left and right the prospects for liberty. <hes> these things that you can read in an hour they can completely change your life. You don't have to pick up man economy and state power and market. You don't have to pick up <hes> any of the you know making economic sense you you could just pick up the Oh we came across. What's you know maybe research paper length and you read that and you're like okay so anyb- mhm sorry anybody calling the conservative anybody calling the founders conservative is entity anybody who calls you know and you just read left it left and right prospects for liberty and you're like Oh yeah these guys were radicals? They were children of the enlightenment enlightenment they were liberals but but it's right but conservatives glomming onto them like oh that was a huge conservative movement no the Conservatives back then wanted to go back to the church and they wanted to go back to the monarchy. They were the Tories. You know so it's that's that's a great <hes>. That's a great piece to point to a left right and the prospects for liberty because even if you never read a one of his books and you just read that you that piece is going to give you an understanding of where the where the founders actually fell on the political political spectrum how how ridiculous it is to put them on the conservative side of the spectrum where the Socialists and communists actually fell on the political spectrum and where we fall on the political spectrum which by the way is completely different than what the average political pundit would tell you today in fact. It's like almost almost completely backward then it's fascinating because it gives you an again so you're getting like all of this political philosophy with the history to put it into context and like you said this. This isn't even like his masterpiece. This is just this is just an article are a little bit. You know a long article but still incredible stuff. I have that on audio and whenever I have a short flight I was listening to it. I mean it's just it's remarkable to listen to me. He talks about the progressive era and everybody's like uses progressive recive and they're using the the definition we have progressives today and he just basically concludes it was a rightwing plot just the right wingers of the day <hes> consolidating and crony crony izing everything and you're just you're sitting there and you're like you're listening to the argument the arguments flawless you just like the one argument I can't. I can't always he's just I mean it's just a devastating take down of the progressive era era and to really to me also is like still to this day at such a key <hes> the biggest probably the biggest misunderstanding about the nature of state ISM in politics that that we still deal with that so many people people still and I know y'all you get this. I'm sure all the time just whether it's on social media or whatever arguing with people where it's kind of like you know it. It's like Oh yeah but then what would happen to the poor or who would build the roads are all these things. It's the idea that the government has to be there to protect people from these big corporate interests <hes> because the government's like the referee in the game and he's just showing in his critique of the progressives how this is this is just the veil that they use that the government is working with these corporations like that's the biggest the biggest most important thing that nobody except the libertarians deals with is that big business loves big government. Why do you think we live in the era of the two who right like why wouldn't you think if we were we would either live in an era of a really small government with huge corporate profits today or we let vice versa huge government that Raines incorporations yet you see right in front of us both both simultaneously detainee Asli happening the state growing through its large level and corporate profits at their highest level? You would think this would dawn on people but I'm an of course Rothbart was a Rothbart was onto this. You know fifty years ago yeah well. I wanted to bring something up because last year when that was at the mises institute for the Supporters Summit <hes> David Gordon who was a friend Rothbart who rothbart had nothing but unbelievable things to say. I think E he's he's re. He referred at times to say David. Gordon knows more than I do which is a a pretty remarkable statement yeah but he <hes> he he came up with this list of books to start with and I thought the the the order was interesting because it's not what you are. I probably wouldn't wouldn't do this order so let me go with the guy that Rothbart said was <hes> you know genius. <hes> these are the first thing you should read as the law by boss dot which if you've read the law you is kind of hard argument at at such take down <hes> but then he says the next thing that you have to read the book I'm holding in my hand is what is the government done to our money yeah. That's that's an interesting one to go with but that is that is an interesting choice. That's excellent excellent book <hes> I like. I like the law as like an introductory book. I've given that out to to a lot of people to be like hey this this like start with this. I also like I would probably go economics in one lesson before what is government his next book. Oh is it I mean no you know with all due respect to David Gordon. I do think sometimes I have a better insight into what to give the average person than these geniuses do because they just don't understand how much dumber the rest of us art than them and and how like daunting some of this stuff is to people but that's a that's a really interesting one to start with because that's also something that you're there's something about it. It's like with Austrian economics the business cycle and things like that. It's like this is stuff. That affects everybody. Just just just your belief for your political leanings. That's not actually the realm that most people live in like morality or stuff like that but all of us use the money and that's a really interesting thing to get people to start to understand what's going on and how much the government is actually stealing from you just by the very nature of you using their their money <hes> and of course what they do with it. The great thing about Rothbart art is I mean this book is one hundred eighty five pages long and it's you know he talks about just exactly how the government steals your wealth by devaluing the money and everything but then he throws in gems like consumer goods are used by consumers capital goods and natural resources are used up in the process of producing consumer goods but money is not used up its function is to act as a medium of exchanges to enable goods and services to travel more expeditiously from one person person to another these exchanges are all made in terms of money prices thus if a television set exchanges for three gold ounces. We say that the price of the television set is three ounces. I mean he's just basically you know when people think of capital capital they think some people may think of money but really when it comes down to it he's explaining in this really remedial book that capital is about production and you know so he's he's already in a book like this. He's he's already like leading you into man economy and state where when you go to man economy and state you'll be able to understand exactly what he's talking about. Yeah and that's probably why there there's th that is a good book to recommend as one of the first <hes> first first Rothbart. You know that's that's interesting. I didn't know David Gordon had recommended that and now that I think about it. That probably has one of the best early lake for somebody WHO's being introduced to my Rothbart. One of the best books I still say go war <hes> peace in the state and man economy instate <hes> I <hes> but that's yeah that that is important because those are basic things that most people don't think about when when you think about life the life that we all live in the economy we all exist on <hes> well after you after he said that when he you said economics at one lesson but then after that he said after economics in one lesson you have to tackle socialism by nieces that that's that's fair. Socialism by means is I think to me might be after human action the best thing Mesa's ever ever put out there because it really that is <hes> it it tackles socialism from a different angle than all of the popular critiques on Socialism and it's actually like the most important most devastating. Dating one as to why this actually can't work you know like I I remember I was I was told in school. I remember being taught this that <hes> communism was a great idea on paper. It just didn't work in real life right like this is this is like the accepted wisdom amongst amongst like the you know in the status quo no oh it's a really good idea on paper just for whatever reason in life it doesn't work which I remember that always bothered me like that always and I wasn't sure why but I was just kind of like we'll know if something works on paper then and it works in real life. That's the idea of putting it on paper like no. No architect could get away with that right. You can't be like well. It was a really good you know design on paper but then it collapses every single time we build it. It's like well then. I think there's some problem with what you put down on the paper none of course what what Mrs Proves and socialism is like actually no this is a fatally flawed idea on paper that cannot that cannot work <hes> that can't develop a pricing system that does what pricing systems are supposed to do which is give information information about production quantity labor all these things <hes> and that's that is impossible. It's a brutal takedown of socialism that it should if everybody was intellectually honest. That should have been the last time that word was ever use after that book everyone got well he he just proved it right there. Gordon says after that then you're ready for man economy and State Yeah Oh man economy and state is the you know the all-time economic treatise that <hes> <hes> has never been touched since and probably won't be in any of our lifetimes. It's everything from <hes> it's it's all the best parts of human action and then taken a two steps further <hes> and it's it's not an easy read. That's not an EA- it's pretty daunting. <hes> for people who are not you know like there's a lot of terminology that you may not know you might find yourself. You know like googling a lot of words I did <hes> when when I read it <hes> but it is it is a masterpiece. It's it's watching Mozart. Put together his greatest you know of I dunno song and I will mention that you can bob. Murphy did a study guide for it. Yes available from the Nieces Institute. It's a wire bound. If you WANNA get a physically or you can get it for free at pre P._D._F.. Download <hes> what else was I going to say about man economy and state <hes> <hes> let me jump through. He said the next book well. This isn't shocking the next book after you do man economy and state should be human action. He said Yep which is which is an interesting order because human action of course was written. I and Man Economy and state is building off of human action. <hes> I you know Oh. I don't know if I I agree with that but David Gordon you know he's probably right and I'm wrong. I would probably go human action I but <hes> but yeah I mean human action is literally on Maecenas. The you know the his great economic treatise us which I you know to me and this is what Rothbart built all of his economic like this was his foundation for all of his economic writings. <hes> human action is just breaks down the way to look at the way to think about what economics is and it's actually the only way to think about economics that makes any sense that is actually based in logic in the real world <hes> and it's. It's you know I would say it's just a masterpiece. It's it's amazing using it like it's the best economic treatise that's ever been written and it. It's almost like a movie where there's like parts that you like like your your four hundred pages in and then you go like this is what he's been saying the whole time. Oh this is what like it's it's. It's just incredible. I really highly recommend everyone read that and of course that also has a right a- Bob Murphy study guide basically to go with that which makes it easier to digest and Bob also did another study guide for Mrs Theory of money in credit right right. Oh what I was going to say about <hes> about man economy and state is I mean you don't have to go broke. I mean first of all you can. You can download it for free off amazes. You can download the audio book for Free Off Amici's. I've seen it on Ebay for five bucks yeah. You know so it's like you. You don't have to <hes> you don't have to go nuts buying these some of the some of the newer ones are pricey <hes> but it's <music> you can you can do it if you want. I got a copy. I got an old copy of human action off of Ebay for like three dollars so you know so pretty awesome. That didn't grow up yeah. I know well. The next book that what he said was he went back to two Roth. Bard is an I've never I've never read this book and this is probably one of the books that I'm like least <hes> familiar with is an Austrian perspective on the history of Economic Thought Yeah I've never read that one either and basically what it is is. It's a <hes> volume. One is economic thought before Adam Smith and then volume two is classical economics so you know he's he. He's saying okay. Let's look at what people believed. Let's look at where we came from and let's look at what got us here yeah. That's that you know I never read that book and now because of this podcast I'm going to go <hes> <hes> read that one because you know that that really is a fascinating topic and that is the from what I have read about the transition from classical <hes> economic thought into into the Austrians it really is pretty amazing. How how objectively better the Austrian understanding of economics was with the classical economists did was amazing? It opened the door to start to understand what real economic says but they had I mean you know like all these guys <hes> <hes> <hes> Adam Smith and Ricardo and Karl Marx and people they were all working off the Labor theory of value which just imagine how how much you're gonNA get wrong if you're if you have a complete a completely wrong long incorrect factually objectively wrong understanding of where value comes from I that's a very important that's like a fundamental building block of of Economics and the idea that you're thinking that value you is derived from the Labor. You have asked backward you have it completely backward. It's from the demand. It's from it's from the subjective value that people have and you. Can you know it's funny because it's just like everything else in life. We get to feel like we're really smart because we sit on the shoulders of giants. You know like we feel like we're really smart because we're having this conversation over a computer right now but I don't know how the hell this computer works. I don't know I'm just lucky that smart people figure this out before me but you look look back at this stuff and you're like how did these classical economists not see these these such obvious insights from the Austrians but of course it's only because I've read these people that I'm able to see it but that that that is a really fascinating the topic of how these pre you know Austrian economic schools thought of of the world when I see Gordon next week. I think I'm going to ask him talking bad. How almost everyone back then was working off of the Labor value? I'm I want to see what he if he thinks because the question that comes to my mind about that is is it because the world had really not been introduced due to the phenomenon of luxury goods yet on a mass scale. <hes> you know most of the production that would have been back then would have been for essentials you know so. I don't think there was a lot of things that were being manufactured that we're being thrown away <hes> it would be they would be used but once you start getting into the industrial revolution and the Nineteenth Century <hes> people are more wealth is being generated. People are now buying things that they don't need that they that they they want and that you know maybe that can <hes> when the demand when the product is not really a demand but <hes>. Is it really demand if it's a need if it's if it's something that it actually you need to live <hes> yes. It is a kind of demand but <hes> when you really look like when luxury goods came in and people air conditioners and things like that <hes> that you know nobody I needed up until this point but now no one really wants to live without <hes>. Maybe that's why people were using the Labor theory of value because you know somebody somebody who decides to you know create a a bicycle. All that has an engine on it that makes it go a little bit faster than if you're peddling <hes> that's not a need. That's a luxury good and then you start looking at it and you'll then how do you value that right while I'm I think there probably is a lot to what what you're saying that this was kind of what made people start realizing rate because the more you like if you look at a modern economy like the economy we have today where there's you know that's like the vast majority of things now are things that are way beyond the realm of needs. So how do you value what somebody you know like. Someone has a lava lamp or something you know that has no like objective tangible value the only way you could put a value on that is to say someone likes it like they like having it in their home so it yes I I do think there's something to that that the more you start to move in that it becomes more apparent that value is subjective and as you know in the eye of the beholder I mean you know you value what you value but you and to you know give up somewhat of a pass to do the the classical economists you can kind of see the surface level plausibility of the Labor theory of value. I mean people have to work very hard. There's certainly a connection between Labor and value that people work very hard and now there's a product at the end of a and this product has value it didn't value before they worked on it and then they worked on it and now it's got some value so okay you could see where upon first glance you would think okay. That's the this is where the value is derived from but of course even even with just just you know material like needs our guys. Let's take a quick second and thank our sponsor for today's show which has infinite C._B._D.. Infinite C._B._D.. Offers the cleanest healthiest purest form of C._B._D.. Available Anywhere C._D.. Of course as you know by now it gives you all the benefits of marijuana without getting you high. I recommend infinite C._B._D.. Because it's just a great product it's the purest stuff I've gotten a lot of benefits particularly out of the freezing point topical cream which is great for pain but they've got a bunch of different products. They have gumy's amies isolate drops the pills caffeine in them anything you need whether you're having issues with insomnia anxiety inflammation. A host of other ailments C._B._D.. Has Been shown to work and it's really helped me personally very much through this. 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You'd think that we'd go oh yeah of course this is not where then I know that like they were a little bit more sophisticated than this but I still think using these these simple examples kind of demonstrates why the Labor theory of value is wrong but like you if you could work really hard all day like you could go punch a wall all day long and it does produce zero value. It's like well why I mean you could throw a rock against the ground and lift it and drop it all day long then you get nothing because nobody wants that because there's no demand demand for it. There's no there's nobody who values that and and that means it's worth nothing it doesn't matter <hes> and so yeah I mean I think there is something to what you're saying for sure I was talking to the other day who has really studied like the history three of anarchism all the schools syndicalism communism all that <hes> and when we were talking about <hes> you know any basically what I'm seeing is when you have people who especially people who invoke the Labor. Labor theory of value and people who is an really the ones that a attack a narco capitalism as in arco capitalism can't work because capitalism has to have a government in order to protect private property what I've really got in my head and if somebody wants to tell me I'm wrong. That's fine is that these people just want stuff for free that they do not understand why they have to pay for stuff and I mean it just and and I just don't see any other way and I don't think you know I'm not judging. I'm not judging. I just think it's really it's remarkably misguided and that's a really soft way. They have saying it but I don't think these people understand that. If they went and lived in the woods they their life would be ten times worse than if they went to work to starbucks every day you know they'd be working ten times harder <hes> and if to me what socialism people who you know say oh we should be working for each other inevitably inevitably. I think those people who are the loudest voices and making the loudest arguments for that or people who think that they're going to be the anchor and they're you're not gonNA WANNA work and they want to be able to live off of other people's Labor yeah. We'll never underestimate the psychological phenomenon of all of this stuff you know human beings have a tremendous capacity to rationalize to project. I mean you know how many times when you know if you're just today <hes> re tweeted something that the I think you you re tweeted it but the the <hes> the Libertarian Party or not you you've been kicked off twitter but somebody sending <hes> right have retweeted but <hes> the <hes> the Libertarian party you know put out something about taxation being theft and no one should be forced to pay for that and I was like okay. Thank you because you know I give them a lot of shit. When they have bad posts I was like good very good good post from the El Pais <hes> and then there was somebody who is tweeting back there like Oh oh so you think you should just <hes> you know you should just be able to get all the benefits of the U._S.? Government without paying anything in or something like that would really as a funny criticism of them for Aniko capital is because it's like and by the way I would again. I I tend to do what you're doing here. which is a little bit? You know putting them on the couch but you're like you know. I just bet whoever this person is is not a net tax payer which I certainly am and it's like it's like yeah you know. I'm not really just like my. I'm actually advocating indicating that you don't get anything for free that you have to pay for all of the services you use but you know I don't feel so great about having a contribute to like a thirty thousand dollar toilet for the Pentagon so I'd rather not have to pay these tax rates that this criminal organization can force me any <hes> to pay but I think you're right. I think all of that stuff I mean look this this. It's not just with the socialist left but also with the new kind of populist right <hes> where you know there's a lot of <hes> you know look Tucker Carlson. Who's WHO's really great on the war issue and stuff like that where he'll talk about how much poorer Americans are now than they were thirty years ago? How much harder it is for people? It's like yeah I really do think there is like you said with the starbucks. The bucks were living in the woods thing. I think people really don't appreciate how much advancement there has been and of course there are these areas where things are still unattainable and very expensive for a lot of people like college and <hes> Housing and medical insurance and everything that the government has messed up but everything that the government relatively stays out of just gets cheaper and better. I mean all of it like like everything all of the other the tools we're using right now to have this conversation and they're very quick to <hes> to dismiss. You know this this type of line of thinking where there's Oh oh yeah okay Dave so they're cheap. Consumer goods are available but you know it's it's harder for <hes> someone to you know have a one family earning a one income family or something like that and it's like rural right but why is that harder not for the cheap consumer goods it's because of these other areas where the government intervened where things have gotten crazy expensive and the truth is that you can you can <hes> dismiss cheap consumer goods but that person dismissing it. How many cheap consumer goods do you have? I bet you have a bunch of them right. Why do you think there's so many of them because we know from human action that this is what people want people want cheap consumer goods? How else are you going to improve the standard of living like just oh because you're going to get up there and be the strongman and decide I I I know it's really important Norton for human souls or something like that you know so everybody everybody except the Libertarians takes that stuff for granted talking about the Labor theory of Value <hes> while let me just this eth- Ethics Liberty Book by Rothbart hard? I think it came out I think he put it out in nineteen eighty one and anybody who's ever read. It probably believe feels about it than I do. I think it's his most important book because if we ever do reach that goal that we want here's the law book and this and he lays out everything in it and chapters nine ten and eleven are about property and like he for the first first paragraph of chapter nine is we may define anyone who regresses against the person or produced property of another as a criminal a criminal is anyone who initiates violence against another man and his property anyone who uses to coercive political means for the acquisition of goods and services so he just jumps right in talking about property and in the first paragraph he says oh well we we know that if anybody comes and steals your stuff <hes> if a man comes from next door and steals your stuff or hurt you and that he's a criminal but oh wait. There's more if they use the political means to do that yet. There are criminal as well. Yeah well it it. Does you know it it and this is some stuff that I was talking about this on podcast the other day like with a Hans Hermann Hoppe's of physical removal stuff which is like one of the most controversial <hes> you know libertarian positions out there and I think people like me and you have been somewhat critical of it you know and like a and and a a lot of people are <hes> and then I understand it yeah well. I'll tell you watching Antifa beat up that Andy. No Guy Really makes you understand it a bit more where you're like. Oh yeah maybe to you know we live in this world and I get it. It makes sense. We are what what Libertarians are great at is the philosophy where we're the best at this and nobody nobody can beat us at this stuff <hes> but when it actually comes to like strategy and how to implement a Libertarian Society or if we would ever get one how to maintain that order those aren't necessarily our strong points because you know look around we haven't been doing a great job with that and you do start to think now under the current situation. It just seems a under current circumstances. It seems just ridiculous to even consider the idea like okay is somebody who supports a state in aggressor well then ninety nine point nine percent of us are aggressors and what are we going to do how we got to win some hearts and minds. There's no way however we're just thinking about this in a world old in in a world of liberty if someone starts advocating for this stuff I don't know is that an active aggression on its own. It's it's kind of I mean you're calling for somebody else to start initiating violence but that's it's kind of a gray area then and I do like I as I get older I it's not that I agree with a per se but I grow more sympathetic and I understand it more <hes> where there might be some people like some of these Antifa kids I look at them. It's just like you gotta go like you. Just can't be here. You can't beat. You're not in this civilization game with the rest of us but here's the problem with Antiga what the police stand-down yeah who is telling the police to stand down. Oh that's a that's an excellent point. That's the the most important question and that's also by the same thing. That's the same thing with <hes>. The Jeffrey Epstein Guy Right the problem is that there's a monopoly on the quote justice system that only one group has so if you if you corrupt that group just stand down then that's that now of course me and you know I mean with the antivirus dubbed the idea of a defense for standing down when you've got sixteen different defense forces that are competing for your service and thirty five different insurance companies that are all guaranteeing that these security forces as well who have money on the line that the security forces will be protecting you this is this is literally impossible. This stuff would never happen on a private property private law society but you're absolutely right. This is the problem I mean look that whole thing in Charlottesville the cops led the alt-right guys into the Anti Fa Chrissy created what could have been easily avoidable situation and yet again and this is the stuff that is why voices like yours and Scott Horton's and people like this are so important because the whole national conversation is just over. Who are the bad guys here? Is it the alt-right or is it ANTIFA and nobody goes. We'll really the bad guys there were the cops. They were the bad guys they were the ones who caused this whole goddamn situation because you're on public you're on public property so so we're forced into relying on the government monopoly Defense Agency and they escalate the situation really created it and think about the situation with Andy. No is there in the first episode of Podcast S. I ever did the first thing I ever talked about was warned versus district of Columbia where the court said that the police have no duty to protect you. Is there any better example in this than Andy. No the police stood by while he was robbed while he was beaten and if they did nothing of an and I bring up and here and people were like Oh we need to do this. We need to do that and I'm like just legalize carrying a gun. I'm going to shoot them in the face. I mean I'm gonNA shoot them in the face and I doubt any I doubt they were going to be. I'm pretty sure the majority of people are going to be on my side if I get it. If somebody's beating the shit out of me for ABC for taking pictures and then they tried to beat the shit out of me and hit me and then I got an I shoot 'em really who besides Antifa who and they're you know and they're <hes> supporters in the media. Most normal people are going to be like they. They deserve it. Absolutely absolutely I mean. You don't seem to have a big problem with <hes> these anti fa guys in Texas right. It's not a coincidence Florida. Yeah that's right yeah. It's it's not it's not a <hes> a coincidence events and <hes> that's I. I think you're absolutely right and again. You know that's a great example. It's never what anybody focuses on and these things but it's it's a great point. You know like <hes> so this is what the cops will do. They'll sit there and watch you get you know potential brain damage edge getting just cracked in the head jump I fifteen people but then when you're on the floor bleeding there they'll be happy to come over and write some notes down on their paper. Go we're here. Don't worry we're here. We'll we'll be doing paperwork and getting a healthy government salary plus benefits for the next two weeks weeks while we write up a report on what happened to you and don't arrest anybody. Police are almost as good a historian as Rothbart well. That's right but there there was one other thing from this Rothbart ethics liberty that I wanted to bring up because I think you too if Libertarians Arco capitalist people who believe in private property rights if they haven't read this book. There's some stuff in here that I think would make people go wait. A minute hold on he's is almost sounds sounds like he's talking about. He's endorsing the Labor Theory of value in chapter ten. He talks about property and he talks about somebody who uses the example of somebody owning a large piece of land and claiming a large piece of land not owning the the claiming a large piece of land and somebody comes along and on the outskirts of this land that this person is claiming that the person who's claiming it has never touched it or improved upon it. Somebody just comes. Along and improves upon it like you know clears clear some trees or plants garden or something like that in Rothbart estimation that even though that person was there first and they were claiming it but because they never touched it and they never ever improve that the person who came along and improved it now. It's their claim and that that's their land yeah I and that's that's something that's very overlooked <hes> as you pointed out but I think it's really important and I completely agree with Rothbart on this right. There's there's there's <hes> the idea of just acquisition of property through home setting is not as simple as like Oh. I saw this land so I claim it and this is this is the beautiful part of real property rights that it's like no this this home studying game is something that you actually have to have a real claim on the land. I mean you have to improve it. You have to use it. You have to demonstrably like in some ways show that <hes> so this. This is what kind of allows for the you know not. It's not like this phony left as a gala -tarian forced <hes> <hes> equity type of model but it is a model that allows an opportunity for lots of different people no matter where where you are to be a land owner to be one of these people who you know like the Democratic Socialists would say are the you know whatever the slave masters or something like that. It's like well. You can go do that too. That's really what we want right a society where everybody can become come in owner of they're not just themselves but of land of their own destiny and and it is very interesting to watch my rothbart break that stuff down that it it's one of the things that's so fascinating about Rothbart just the man throughout his entire life it and is what I was getting getting at before with the confessions of a right wing <hes> liberal nobody would know where to put him on the political spectrum or how did how to break this guy down. Here's this guy who's like more of a hippie than the hippies but likes Pat Buchanan and and and and by the way I wanted to at some point get the set. I know it's not exactly on topic of what you were saying what we'll get right back to that but the you know it's like these guy that this is why people will say you know it's it's like the the <hes> the milk milk toast <hes> <hes> Libertarian T._m.. People have today. The Nicholas are walks of the world will be like well well Murray Rothbart. <hes> said some kind of Nice things about David Duke once so really we we want to endorse this guy and and you're like yes. This is the statist moral paradigm that you live in where Oh my God. He said something Nice about David Duke Okay no I'm Ju- now the biggest fan of David Duke <hes> <hes> but you know Nicholas Sarawak while he criticized Murray Rothbart for saying Nice things about David Duke. Nick Sarawak said Nice things about John McCain. Do you know how much worse John McCain is than David Duke. They're not even you can't even compare the two you can't even compare the two you're talking about like you're racist uncle or Adolf Hitler who's worse the Guy who's got corpses that you could put one on top of the other in reach the sky from here that are on his hands and so there's so much of this stuff where you just can't place him but I love this this stuff to bring it back to what you're saying about about the home setting property rights thing where it's like Oh yeah we're supposed to be such a meany you know right wing Guy. It's like this is the Hippie Murray Rothbart coming out like no no no if you're not if you're not using that land on improving upon it you just forfeited that to anybody who does it's beautiful and it's very the the guy I was telling you about that. I was talking about <hes> like Arco syndicalism with the other day. <hes> there's a term that I've known for a long time <hes> just because I'm an idiot who studies unbelievably retarded things is <hes> Yousef rocked and Yousef rock is the law of use. If if you're using something you have a right to it and <hes> yeah the end but socialists and communists use that too so it's like basically Murray's describing Yousef rock and it can be easily related to socialism or or <hes> the socialist ideology as well so yeah so you know two sides and by the way there is an article that I cannot remember the name of but if you go to Mrs Dot Org and you just type in Murray Rothbart anarcho-syndicalism he he has a piece on anarcho-syndicalism that just tears it to shreds just imperfect Rothbart Style and the the point he makes his is. He's just like okay so basically <hes> what you're advocating is that the unions run the government government and all you need to do is take a look at the way the unions run right now and say. Do you think that's a good idea that these guys would have all the power of the state as well and he talks about how you know. How can you imagine a trying to develop a new product? Can you imagine how creative destruction direction would work under an anarchist syndicalist society. I mean think that you know these are the things that people don't think about but are all around us that creative destruction is why we live the way we live and our great great grandfathers lived the way they lived why we have such a higher standard of living is because constantly you're destroying jobs. This is also the stuff that the populist rate in America doesn't get it all is that destroying jobs is part of the process of making all of these things better. I know me and you we're looking into our computers right now and I know there's some guy who owned a typewriter store who wasn't thrilled that this this whole new market came out that end it does suck for that guy it really does it sucks for him in the four people he employed but it makes all of us wealthier. All of us have a better life. All you know and it's like so what do you think though if the typewriter union is right in the laws what's going to happen when you introduce the home computer. It's like <hes> now. I don't think we're going to allow that so of course Rothbart took that apart and one other thing I just WanNa say very quickly because I did find and I gotta go find those again but I found an interview with gnome Chomsky where somebody was <hes> I think our caller had asked him about aniko capitalism at basically said well you know in an anarchist capitalist society do you guys would essentially be allowed to have your socialism or whatever you wanted to. If it was voluntary you could go do have little pockets of whatever you want to have. Would you allow us to have our areas of of anarchy capitalism where private property was are rule based. Is <hes> and you know Noam Chomsky kind of begrudgingly goes like well really what you're asking if I'd allow voluntary slavery. I don't think a lot of people would choose slavery but yes. I don't think there should be laws against it and it was kind of an amazing moment or you go okay. Well your little slavery quip aside. I think you're an anarchist capitalist because you just basically said that. People have a right to go live that way. Well then okay then. You're basically what you're saying is that it's a it's voluntarism which is what we've been advocating for the whole time and I would take that deal any day of the week and see what spread more <hes> in in the same way that right now as terrible as the state is you could have worker owned control businesses. There's a few of them out there or you can. Have you know hierarchical capitalist <hes> top-down firms you have why is it that there's so much more of the capitalist firms than there are of worker on <hes> business. Oh you know because this is what people are choosing so I would take that deal with Chomsky in a heartbeat heartbeat and it'll end up being like the caboose in Israel or whatever it'll be smaller and smaller and then nothing that's my guess I wanNA bring up one more thing from ethics liberty because he goes through this scenario talking about property and and considering watching the democratic debates one of the things that they're talking about which is just unbelievable. <hes> basically Rothbart talks about the man walking down the street who has a wristwatch and another man looks at him and goes. Hey that's my wristwatch and okay. How do we prove ownership and your Rothbart goes through very detailed? I mean you know Rothbart could talk about the price of a p a slice of pizza and write a book about bad it which is what which makes sense actually if you think about it I mean the the price of something is a miracle so you know but <hes> he talks about <hes> how that person would have to be able to prove that that was their wristwatch they would have to have some kind of paperwork showing it or they'd have to have some kind of <hes> lineage some kind of way to show and then that other person who has it would have to show how they how they got it <hes> through legal means quote unquote for a better <hes> you know through more means of that wasn't theft and he goes through this whole thing about how you know he could have of it and think that he <hes> attained legally but actually it was stolen in the first place if this person can prove it and everything and I thought I'm listening to I'm reading this whole thing and you know him going through. This and I'm like this is perfect. This is the way that you prove whether you own something or whether someone owns something and I and even though he didn't mention it. I thought this is the answer. It's a slavery reparations. Yeah you know this is this is the you know hey if you can come in prove that that person is sitting on land that was once your families and you have you know that it would have been passed to you and you have a right to it. Then we can talk about something and then we can talk about quote unquote reparations nations but just wanting forty acres and a mule because you're four three or four generations ago you were treated like animals basically <hes> and having all their rights takeaway especially their right to <hes> the free will and to own property and to not be property of somebody else. <hes> I mean Murray. He wrote every thing that every political political problem album political issue that comes up Murray's already answered the question yeah no it really is incredible and of course that is the and Rothbart also said at one point that the slave should've <hes> immediately gotten the plantations they shouldn't have been freed and freed to leave like they had more of the moral claim on those plantations than the slave owners did and of course if we had followed though isn't it well nigh but it's it's not it's not a theory of value. It's a theory of ownership right. It's more like the Labor theory of ownership that like well. If if you're actually working here if you're mixing your labor with the land you own this. It's not necessarily that you created the value of it but I get your point like it's it's. It's a better it's a more precise version of what they are going for. <hes> and of course if we had followed libertarian theory we never never would've had slavery we would have had reparations right after slavery of course so much of this the thing that's crazy where the these Democrats today you know are talking about it. It's just like they couldn't go that route because they're not really interested in retroactive of justice as much as they're interested in power so someone like Kamala Harris is talking about slavery reparations who's half Indian half Jamaican. You have nothing to do with the story I mean I'm sorry it's it's such it's amazing because it's such racism on. They're part of their skin color so her story is slavery like wait. What no that's not? That's not true at all. Your father was a professor of economics evidently didn't do a very good job at teaching his daughter about economics but professor of economics at Princeton or something I mean her mother was Jamaican <hes> this is you have no connection to the American struggle of blacks back then and of course the problem is the reason why the Rothbart thing is so important is because you realize oh you're actually tracing this back and showing where there was an injustice and how you can write that wrong and the problem with reparations as the Democratic Party would propose it. It's like well who so so you're telling me some <hes> like someone like me me whose whose grandfather was a Jewish you know refugee escaped <hes> from from Nazi Germany it comes over here. I owe money to someone like Kamala Harris whose father was. Was An Indian and mother was Jamaica for slavery for something. None of us were were a part of so this is an that's why Rothbart is just so precise <hes> because of course libertarians would acknowledge that if there were past injustices. There's nothing against you know <hes> <hes> righting that wrong but you gotta demonstrate what it was yeah half of my family came here to escape the nineteen seventeen revolution in Russia and the other half came here in the fifties on a plane so I my my family didn't have anything anything to do with slavery. Hey maybe they owned some slaves down the line somewhere <hes> somewhere else but it sure as hell wasn't here. So why are you asking me for anything. This is just political power. It's all the thing that really elite worries me about this idea of reparations like the real concern to me and it's not that you know the idea that some government handout is going to fix the problems like if if there is something to the left wing claim which I very much believe there is is right. There is something to the claim that if you look at the state of <hes> like the State of black people in America today and the fact that they have a much lower net worth the fact that they are incarceration rates are higher those whatever the problems are their education system isn't as good. They're all these problems that happen. You can't completely divorce that from the history of of oppression of black people in American society. I mean there's I'm not saying it's one hundred percent because of that but there's connections okay are there. It's not just this doesn't happen in a vacuum so okay but if government handouts could solve this problem is problem would have been solved long ago so that's obviously not going to do anything to actually write historical injustices <hes> but what it really he can do in reality is pick the races against each other even more in this country and really lead to a more and more dangerous situation I mean I was talking about with Scott Horton ones when he was on my show with there's just this amazing thing when you think about how people you think about people blah blah of different religions what a fundamental difference that is in the way you see the world like some some Christian and an atheist and a Jew and a Muslim or would I mean this is your most important deep beliefs about what existence is <unk> are completely diametrically opposed and you might have some Catholic who's like believes that you're GonNa burn in Hell because you're a Muslim or whatever like deepen their harder go. You're going to be in a pit of fire for the rest of eternity because you didn't accept Jesus in your heart art or whatever or vice versa you know like all but they go to the store together. They trade with each other. They go do business but then where do they fight. Where are they really fighting while they're fighting over prayer in the school their fight whenever the government comes in that's when you have this big big fight because it's it's win lose its? There's no win win scenarios when it's run by domination so yeah it's like well. My kids either going to school where they're not going to teach them what I want them to teach him or your kids going to school where they're not going gonNA teach them what you want to teach them and now we got fight and win. Where do we see this culture war coming up? It's like we get Hillary Clinton or Donald Trump 'cause the losers have to be ruled by the other one like this is so you almost understand where there has to be this culture war and what do you think it would do to race relations in America to say oh here. Were actually going to show you white people where we're taxing you and giving the money over to black people. There's already a perception with some reality that that's happening in a lot of these white working class communities. What do you think making it? Completely explicit is going to do that and by the way that was my only point to the Libertarian Party when I was saying that everyone started arguing that some border -tarian or something like that the other week where I was just saying that the Libertarian Party shouldn't just just be saying like hey if you're peaceful you should be able to immigrate to this country in the context of democratic debate where they're all arguing that they should be given free healthcare. It's like well then okay but also make the second point of this statement you any peaceful person should be allowed to come here but you are owed nothing like that then. I'm fine with that then. I'd be fine with that statement but this is don't you see the state ISM. This is where the culture war sparks from don't see it other than the political process. Where do you see this? Go outside side. Go to the store. Do you see a culture war going on my three. My three closest friends here are all black one's a one's nation of Islam. He's probably the the person I'm closest to in Georgia. We get along perfectly fine. We I mean in other ones seventh day adventist very very religious very very quiet. We get along fine. The other ones are completely looney linney leftist. We get along fine. There's no there's no culture war when you bring bring it back down to Austrian economics if it's about the individual and it's and it's about individuals people get along as soon as as soon as you have a popularity contest over who is going to rule the other ones ones will now those guys don't seem like your friends so much anymore like well. I don't want him to get to choose who rules over me. We have all these different views that we kind of just ignore for most of life because we have because we both like the same football or whatever you know because there's so much more to life. Whoa what's funny? Is You know I've talked to all three of them about reparations that they think is the most ridiculous thing in the world. The two of them are like Bob Not GonNa fucking game of some this for someone says my way. It's like the U._B._A.. If they institute the U._B.. I it's like I mean I. I know what's going to happen but I'm GONNA still take by silver gold bitcoin every month with everything you know. It's like it's like it's not like I'm going to say no. It'd be an idiot while everybody else's while everybody else is doing smart. People who you know would turn it into something thing that would actually have some lasting <hes> some lasting value so you know I mean it's just it's just split into groups and get them warring against each other yeah and that of course is and that's the point like I saying before with the cops in Charlottesville. It's like you get these guys warring and nobody looks up 'cause they're all warring with each other and nobody goes like Oh. You know we actually kind of have a common enemy here. I mean think about the fact think about what what cops have done to black people in the last Hundred Years in in American society right and then you think about what the cops did to these white nationalists in Charlottesville and isn't there just like a profound hilarious various irony. That's like these these black people who you WANNA kick out of your white AETNA state. It's like okay feel however you feel about wanting to live with him. Don't you guys kind of have the same enemy. No you guys have the exact same enemy. Isn't it kind of the same force that's fucking both of you guys over her. So maybe we should focus on that and then go live with whoever you want to live with our enemy the state man what's the name of reminders <hes> rest in peace reminders autobiography of <hes> Murray rocks any of the state yeah enemy of the state such beautiful <hes> the title too because people most people would read it and not really get it yeah yeah yeah most most people don't even know you have to read it with the proper cadence or else. Ciragan is Oh enema familites. What was he saying here was he was the F._B._I.? Have a file on them while maybe probably but <hes> you know well I mean let's wrap it up there. You're going to release this today right yeah. I'M GONNA I'm GonNa put this adds a stream. We're GONNA make us a swap cast asked part of the problem and and Freeman beyond the wall. I need to plug something of course <hes> myself and two other people started a production company and we are making a documentary on the history of Nation States and transitioning into a NOCCO capitalist society next week we will be interviewing at Muses University such great thinkers as David Gordon Bob Murphy Mark Thornton Morton. Peter Klein Jeff diced Dave Smith <hes>. I should not be on that list. I appreciate you should I'm GonNa when I when I'm gonNA email you the questions today I it's not only going to be the about culture and it's not only going to be about you know entertainment and <hes> you know podcasting and stand up comedy stuff. I've heard you be dead on as far as economics <hes> in the past few years I got some questions in their view to and I think you can <unk>. I think you'll nail the great thing about a decade documentary. Is You send people questions and you already know what you want. The answers to be because you know you're writing documentaries though but <hes> so we have this documentary we did crowd funding for it. We sat for sixty days within an half of those days we reached a goal that we asked for people are really excited about this documentary. It's called the monopoly on violence and it's I mean they're literally had people contact to me who are way more excited about it than I am at this point because you know I'm I'm making the sausage so you know it's it's a little tiring but you know our goal was to get fifteen grand because we have a bunch of equipments do this and get this done and everything but we need to be. We have a lot of travel for this <hes> and also <hes> promotion that we have to we have to do but people have actually kept giving so now we're over sixteen thousand and anything that we take ah now is just going to be more towards more marketing and you know even the idea of <hes> getting foreign language subtitles or voice overs and stuff like that so it's on Indie Gogo which is a site that a a lot of anarchists and Libertarians are using crowdfunding. If you go to Indie Gogo and you go to the monopoly on violence you'll see it there <hes> you can donate his ten bucks will get your free four k download when it when it happens five hundred bucks will get you a producer credit <hes> or else you can tailor it. There's a contribution level. You can give five bucks. You can give you know we've had I've had one per. We've had one person who I'll introduce you to it says university next week who's given almost two thousand dollars ars towards the Scottish awesome. Yeah I mean he's excited about it. You know it's something I think a lot of people are like this. We needed this along time ago. We needed a documentary like this so that we can pass around people we could be like Oh. Oh you want to know about here here and yeah especially with the rise of the popularity of Netflix documentaries people go into next netflix documentary <hes> holes where they're just watching one after another and I'm one of those people yeah so <hes> we're still crowdfunding and even though we hit our goal this is the first time we're doing it. Who the hell knows we may have we may have misjudged and we may need? You know we may need more so I mean we've had like. I said we've had one person's giving almost two thousand dollars. I would be happy if it was five thousand people giving five dollars. That would let me know that there was a lot of people who were really excited for this so you know swing on by their see what we're doing. There's an introduction video which I narrated on their shows a couple of the people that we've already interviewed viewed for it and the people that we will be interviewing <hes> in the future like Ron Paul and Daniel McAdams and Scott Horton and <hes> Walter Block pair Beland all these people that are way better at this than us who who a lot of them have in front of their names that are really gonNa lend this credibility so well. I gotta say I'm really really excited about this. I'm one of those people who's more excited about this than you are so congratulations on all the success so far and best of luck with this. I'm I'm excited to interview next week. Coleman <hes> talk about the <hes> the appearance next week and everything so next week. I'm doing a <hes> an event. <hes> on Tuesday will Monday Monday thaddeus Russell debating at the Soho Forum they go to the Soho Form Dot O._R._G.. By the way if you're in the New York City area you gotta come by one of those. There are a lot of fun. I KNOW PIZZA PIZZA INTO A couple I go to like everyone basically so thaddeus is going to be doing a debate on postmodernism and then the next stay. We're doing a live <hes> unregistered podcast with me nickel espy and Thaddeus Russell in Brooklyn <hes> you could check. I tweeted out the info and stuff like that but that should be a lot of fun and then off to Mrs University so I got a good a good fun week of liberty coming up I can't next I'm going to be there albeit Mrs on Monday so <hes> I'll be eating it all up and everything and I think we're going to start <hes> knocking out the interviews on Tuesday so I'll have one day to enjoy the <hes> enjoy all the teachings and then.