Parasite with Grace Jung

Automatic TRANSCRIPT

Hello, everybody Jamie from the Bechtel cast here to talk about one of my favorite fashion companies of all time. It is Super Yawkey folks to you love movies, and when we say movies, we mean the good movies such as the ones we cover on this podcast or the bad ones everyone told you not to like see national treasure it sounds like Super Yawkey. Is the place for you because the team at Super Yawkey loves movies so much that they've dedicated every single waking moment of their life to bringing you top quality merchandise to showcase your love for them. They have super soft t shirts advocating for the immediate production of a third national treasure, which is a movement that we cosign in spite of ourselves by the way. To come sweatshirts that serve as a call to arms for those in support of making Judy greer. America's one to lead which we also cosign, and now that we're in the scary month of all, they've got stuff for all your favorite spooky movies. 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Cal On your host Brit Morton I'm an entrepreneur, a CEO a mom and I'm curious about a lot of things we've already learned so much together and I can't wait for what's next my co host and best engineers are back with brand new episodes every Wednesday. Listen to teach me something new on the iheartradio APP apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcast. On. The dog cast questions asked movies have women and. All their discussions, boyfriends, and husbands who do they have individualism Patriarchy Zaphon vast start changing with the Becca del Cais. Caitlyn yes. Jamie starting to think capitalism might be dot dot dot not so great. Way, what. While that was what I got for an opening I I just I feel like I've really like my oh, my opening game has really diminish lately and I don't know if it's just because like my it's nine trillion degrees on my brain is just boiling inside of my skull or. Or if it's all finally getting to me I I you know personal policies for that Real Lou Forum opening. I could have done better I will strive to do. So Jamie don't apologize I mean this is a this is a difficult time. Well, welcome to the Bechtel cast my name's Jamie Loftus. My name is Caitlin Dante, and this is our our little podcast where we talk about some incredible movies and some not incredible movies using an intersectional Feminist Lens for discussion. That's right and we use the Bechtel tests often known as the Bechtel Wallace test as a way to just inspire a larger. Conversation in that is a media metric created by cartoonist Alison Bechtel, and it requires that for our purposes are sort of modified version of the test to people from a marginalized gender must have names must speak to each other and they must not talk about a man many movies don't do it, but but but some movies do but sometimes it happens that's just the nature. It's kind of a pass fail test. There's not really a middling although sometimes there's so fun ones like my. Whole conversation about it sometimes to women with with names or just apologizing over nothing like like I was doing you know just two minutes ago so. They're shades of grey there as well. But. I'm really really really excited to talk about today's movie popular request and and one of my favorites. Yes and we have a terrific guest joining us today. She is a comedian. She is a PhD candidate in cinema and media studies and her academic publications have covered such things as television studies, Korean Media Asian American History Gender and sexuality. It's grace Deng Hello, Hi log on you. So happy to please review here we're happy to have you. So grace tell us about your general relationship with the film parasite Oh. Yeah. We did also recovering parasite hangs. Like popular request. Levy guessing as to what movie like, Why am I here? Who are these people? Yeah. Yeah. I love this movie parasite I've been I've been following the filmmaker pumpkin hosts career for a long time. And I would say he's like the first Korean filmmaker to really make it. into the mainstream Zeitgeist in the United States and other parts of the world. Yeah and I I really love his filmmaking interesting side note on Poon. He studied sociology in College. So he actually did not study film making per se. But. I say because of his educational background, a lot of his movies cover sort of that like the sociological kind of critique of Korean society and capitalism a lot. Yeah and Yeah. I mean I. I was very excited to see the movie because I saw the trades that he had won the palm door for his latest movie parasite and I was like, okay, that's a big deal. 'cause know like a Korean filmmaker to win a palm door can is a big deal. Yeah, and then i. went to see it in theaters with the friend. Another create American friend was her birthday. I went to see it I thought the movie was so astounding like such a such an amazing movie and I watch a lot of films 'cause I work in film right about film. But like I hadn't seen a movie that made me feel that like elated and so long. And Yeah. Right. After the movie ended as we were leaving my friend immediately wanted to talk to me about it and I was like you have to stop talking right now I just I just need to go home and. Process, this road. So, I, just I just went home processed it and then I texted like. Like two other American friends of mine and I was just like parasite you have to see it. We have to see a together and like they want to see it by themselves, and then we went as a group together to go and see it again and Yeah. It's like a film that it could keep returning to I. Think it's really well done for sure. Jimmy. What about you? This was one of I, mean this is. In no way hot take was one of my favorite movies I saw last year. Is it a couple of different times in theaters and this was kind of embarrassingly my first movie from from the director I I hadn't seen anything else because before this podcast started I didn't watch a ton of movies but after seeing parasite, hey, went back into his film catalog nosy in the majority I haven't seen I? Think to a of his films but yeah, I, just kind of swivelled into becoming Stan and I love this movie I hadn't seen it and a couple of months, and it was really fun to go back to after not having been watching it like once a week towards the beginning of the year. Yeah but I I I really love it yeah. Caitlin what is your experience with this movie? Pretty similar I I had seen a few of his films in the past. And I went into parasite not knowing anything about it because I had seen the host and because the movie is called parasite I thought it was also going to be like a monster movie. I was like, oh no just kidding. It's not that at all I'd also seen snow piercer and I was like, okay, it's more aligned see. With snow piercer because of like the class commentary but I hadn't seen Osha which I saw I watched over the weekend and I have never I've SOC- sobbing at the end of the kind of sobbing where your job you can't breathe because you're. So hard anyways. You need. And it's very sad. Animals the super piglets and anyway. I was traumatized and then case I I do really enjoy his filmography and I loved parasite. I only saw it once in theaters but I've seen it a number of times since then because it came out on Hulu so I was very thankful feminist icon who live. By Fox was like Disney. Movies. Disney rebounds for sure there. Feminists. Cash grab it. Oh Okay. So should I just dive into the recap and we'll go from there? Yeah. Let's do it. I like how I asked that question every single episode. Okay. Thank you for asking for consent before starting to. Well you know I just WanNa make sure we're on the same page. All right. So we meet the Kim family. It's a mother father son and daughter I believe the son and daughter are in their late teens. Early Twenties. Not, entirely sure Early Twenties early because at the end, you find out how old the daughter was because a says she was born in Nineteen, nine, hundred six. Twenty three okay. Got It. I missed that detail good to know in any case they come from a low socio economic background they live in this like semi basement level apartment their phones have been shut off they don't have access to Wifi anymore they do kind of odd jobs like folding pizza boxes for work for money. Then one day and apologies in advance for all of the horrible pronunciations I am going to do of these green characters, names but Kiu. The son gets a visit from his friend men who brings the family this. Stone that is meant to bring like wealth and prosperity to the family, and he is also leaving to study abroad. It's fun when the when the stone comes in you're like, oh, it's a metaphor stone I wonder why the metaphor will be but even when I don't know you know you can sometimes tell it's a metaphor just by the way it's framed really well, it's funny because like it's but it's also like and pay off. So it's like it has a narrative purpose. It has a symbolic purpose. Even cues is like this is metaphorical Making Fun of people watching the movie and jail time with great. So, anyway. So men is leaving to study abroad and he wants to recommend cue for his old job tutoring a girl from a rich family. Cues sister helps him forge a college degree I think or some kind of official academic document, and he goes in for an interview and he meets Mrs Park who is naive and gullible she interviews him and gives him the job. He also meets the teen girl that he'll be tutoring and the young son. We also think at this point, meet the parks housekeeper. So Mrs Park then also tells him that her son. Let me check the pronunciation here her son Dawson needs an art teacher and Q. is like I know of someone who might be a good fit this classmate of my cousin and who he really means is his sister ki-jong. And Illinois Chicago Yes yes and so Mrs Park gives them English Names Kevin and Jessica which I might default to using for the sake of again not continuing to embarrass myself l every time I fail in pronounce pronounce them just fine so far okay. Oh, so much I'm very self conscious. You're welcome. You're so welcome. I just don't want to be disrespectful. Okay. So Jessica pretending to have the necessary credentials and experience gets the job doing art therapy for the young son and we also meet the father of the rich family Mr Park and his driver takes Jessica home and she leaves her underwear in the car planting it as incriminating evidence knowing that it'll probably get him fired which it does. So now that driver position is open for. Mr. Kim to be able to get that job. Now the only thing they have left to do is to get rid of the park family's housekeeper so that their mom Mrs, Kim, can have that job enter the peach. Yes. This one's a little trickier because of the housekeeper has been working in this home for years and years, but the use her peach allergy against her and they're able to get her fired by convincing Mrs Park that the housekeeper has tuberculosis. Just like one of the funniest secrets is in the mood that whole sequence is just so fucking funny it's. Shaving the little peach off the peaches and collecting in like a little tiny little vial the hawks at the end. It's just great. Yeah. So then Mrs Kim gets hired as the park family housekeeper. And now they're all working for this rich family and one day the parks go on a camping trip the Kim's like. Well, let's see what it's like to live lavishly in this upscale home. So they're eating drinking or carrying on, but then someone shows up at the door and it's the old housekeeper who says she left something behind. So Mrs, Kim reluctantly lets her in the house. She goes down into the basement and it turns out there is a secret bunker down there. This is what we would call the mid point of the film and It's not as though I have a screenwriting masters degree or anything like that. I'm the least educated person and the. ME. Okay. So they go into this secret bunker where the former housekeeper's husband has been living for the past four years because he is hiding from debt collectors now, Mrs Kim Threatens to call the police on the former housekeeper and her husband. But just then her family who had been eavesdropping on this whole interaction like tumble down the stairs and accidentally reveal themselves and the old housekeeper who recognizes all of them and realizes that they have been lying. About. who they are threatens to expose them to the park family a big fight breaks out between them, and then the park family calls to be like, Hey, it's raining the camping trip has been cut short. We're on our way home. We're we'll be there in eight minutes. So everyone has to scramble the Kim's drag housekeeper and her husband backed down into the basement. There's violence, and then the park family arrives back home and meal is made A. It looked so good the family hinds in the living room under the coffee table they tried to escape but get delayed because Mr and Mrs Park are right there jerking each other off the couch. Matching Pajamas to it just just. Never, not disturbing to watch. I'm like, I know you're like I don't know do do thing but in matching pajamas surrealist portrayal of married couples sex life. Matching Gray, pajamas jerk each other off joyously Jenner off. Their son is an attendant mere yards away. Do you. So they're right there and Mr Park thinks that he can smell Mr Kim's smell because he has commented on how different members of the family have commented on how the Kim family has a distinct kind of foul smell about them. So, eventually, the Kim family are able to escape. So Kevin, Jessica, and Mr Kim return home, but their basement level apartment has been flooded with sewage water because of this storm that's happening, and then they're trying to out what to do about this situation with the previous housekeeper and her husband than the next day the parks throw an impromptu birthday party for. The Sun and they invite Kevin and Jessica and Mr Mrs Kim Are they're working and helping out with the Party and then during the party Kevin goes down to the basement, he discovers the old housekeeper who has died from her head injury and the housekeeper's husband bashes. Kevin. On the head and then he goes out into the party also she's she's told her. Husband to like vow to kill Mrs Kim or at least attempt to go Mrs Kim Right. Yes. Yeah. And then the housekeeper's husband goes out into the Party and stabs. Jessica. All Hell breaks loose. Then Mr. Kim Sees Mr Park being disgusted by the smell that he smells on like the housekeepers has been so Mr Kim Stabs Mr Park and then runs. Off Unknown knows where he is at first. But then some time passes Q. has survived his head injury. He figures out that his dad is in the bunker and he forms a plan to become rich enough that he can buy the House that his dad is hiding and they can all reunite and we see this play out as a kind of flash forward. But it cuts back to the present. He is still in like the basement level apartment implying that that's probably never going to happen the end the. Very. Uplifting. Film. Just brings joy So that's the story. Let's take a quick break and we'll come right back to discuss. Not to Brag or anything but I've been wearing glasses for about twenty years. 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Something that I wasn't totally aware of before I started researching for this episode was I mean I know that this movie really resonated with American audiences but I didn't know that much about the socio economics of South Korea. I am kind of running on like a basic par American history education as it is. So I prior to preparing for this episode, only new kind of the basics on South Korean history next to nothing and so for those of you that are in the same boat as me on that Here are a couple of quick facts this is from. Literally Socialist Dot net if you can believe. Feminist icons socialist little little website called socialist dot net. But just contextualized the class disparity in South Korea `assises from a piece. By Andy, Southwark about parasite quote created had barely developed under the yoke of Japanese imperialism at the end of the Korean War. In nineteen, fifty three the south remained a largely rural economy with very low standard of living in the period. Immediately following the war, the south was totally dependent on the US followed the guidance of their American masters by relying on the quote. Unquote Free Market to provide development this growth was driven by the rise of state-sponsored conglomerates called. I don't know if I'm saying this correctly show balls H H E. B O l s a chaebol. which came to totally dominate the economy. The shape balls were run by the country's elite families who use corruption and their state contacts to amass humongous fortunes. They of course, made sure that their wealth was passed on to their children on the basis of this development. A new working class was formed in the cities and a massive wealth divide up up with skyrocketing inequality after the nineteen ninety-seven Asia's financial crisis several shape balls went bankrupt and Korea entered a period of mass unemployment, parasite hints that this is the background to both the parks wealth and the Kim's poverty unquote. So that was just I. I wasn't aware of the context of. I mean I I guess this story certainly reads to any audience that has a background of mass. You know income inequality but yeah, I just didn't know that for listeners that don't know. Yeah. tebow is. Not Shape but. Taper is the the it's a huge problem in South Korea. Like for instance, Samsung, is a chip by corporate conglomerate Samsung you could kind of imagine a to be like a massive like. You know you have apple iphones and tablets. You have Samsung mobile phones and tablets. Fact I saw a Samsung cell phone that blew my mind. It's it's a it's just it's a glass screen you know typical but told my God. Oh, I've Yeah I've heard about these or like. You have to see. In half to see it with your own eyeballs. It's like watching it is still mind blowing. I would see this in Korean dramas a lot because that's Embedded marketing and when I saw that I was just like I want that phone so badly. You know fuck apple I don't care anymore Samsung you've outdone yourself but yeah. Are, a huge problem. For instance, some this film was executive produced by Mickey. Mickey Lee. Is the daughter of Sampson corporate conglomerate because Samsung is associated with CJ and CJ will. It's actually a food conglomerate but CJ has a subdivision call cj entertainment which handles filmmaking TV and some music. So they have a lot of cable channels newspaper. So it's a huge corporate conglomerate. Yeah So yeah these are a problem and their problem because it's again it's like a family based thing right so nepotism is a big issue. Corruption is a big issue. Cronyism is a big issue as what Micky Lee, what's ironic about this film winning an Oscar and some Ice All some people in social media talk about this too is that Mickey Lee is like this daughter of this huge temple establishment and yet she's the one that's executive producing a film that has a very sharp social critique. Of capitalism right and that goes to asking like we'll how like what's what parallels do we have in the United States like you know I mean Fox's now owned by Disney. But before that like you know when when you have the simpsons or family guy on on Fox which always has a critique of these mega corporations, right? It's. How impactful is that critique when it is owned under the umbrella of a? Conglomerate, right? Yeah. The irony. Yeah. The like perhaps hypocrisy of it all is. It comes into that whole discussion of by. It feels fucking impossible to make to get anything funded without some sort of corporate underlying. It is possible, but it's like the hill is infinitely higher in like. Imagine how much harder it would have been for this movie to get funded without the corporate underwriting and I mean it just goes back to like the no no ethical consumption arguments, right? Yeah. It's I. Mean even even if a person does make a film without any of those corporate ties, the goal is still to sell it. You know to have a distributed and if that film let's say a pure little film grassroots right somehow made it big. The first person that's going to be on the phone contact with the filmmaker is somebody who is going to compromise all of those things for that person right and will that person say no most likely? No, they will say yes. All right. If you WANNA if you WANNA be successful as an artist if you want to pay off your your three credit cards that you maxed out. In order to make that film, you're GonNa say, yes and Yeah I. Don't blame you at all for for doing that. You know it is like I mean, how much awareness do you have of that? Like do you make these things with that full awareness? No knowing that all of us, all of us are are tied to that still bound to that whether we like it or not I. Mean we're on Iheartradio right now like this is exactly I notice there is quite honestly escaping. Right and how do you like without the funding it would have been as difficult to make as it would have been for like q to like earn enough money to buy the that Parkhouse and like rescue his dad like it's just Stockley it's not in the socio economic structures that many countries operate under. It's simply not possible social mobile like UPWARD MOBILITY Damn near impossible. Yeah and I think that's so important to highlight like first of all, what that shows or what this discussion shows is that capitalism is actually a lot more complex. It's more complex than just saying capitalism as the evil of all it's like yeah. Okay. That's true. But we're still working within this framework of capitalism what what can we do you know and then what you just said about social mobility is I think it's so. It's key to this film. It's a key marker of this film this concept of the Odor, right? This odor that offends. Mr. Park so much and then Mr Park Intel's his wife Mrs Park about a she didn't even have any awareness of it. He tells her about it and then the next day she notices the stench of of Mr Kim right which goes to show like, oh, well, she's really under the. Thumb of her husband you know very impressionable wife and. He says something very interesting about this odor. He's like I like Mr Kim because he never crosses that line. I don't like what people cross the line but that odor crosses the line and that's a very, very like clear cut rationale that all rich people have they don't want the poor to be socially mobile they simply do not because as soon as a person as socially mobile, right? They crossed the so called line, they lose that person. To continue to function in their big houses with their cars with their with their regular lavish convenient lifestyle, and so they do not want social mobility, right but with power do not want the port to be socially mobile. Yeah. Because then they don't have anyone left to exploit exactly the the smell works on so many levels on like I don't know when I first saw movie I was like. I guess like semi triggered myself because that was like I don't know I grew up in a family with that smell and it's a literal metaphor in some ways where it's like the most deeply humiliating thing you like is it's one of the most deeply humiliating feelings I've ever felt as hearing someone else talking about how you smell thinking. You can't hear them like it's the worst feeling in the world and then on top of that I thought it was really interesting that even when I mean, it's also metaphorical right where there's. Nothing. They can do to get the smell off. They actively try to use different soaps they're like trying to strategically that's like the one part of this whole ruse that the Kim family has going that gives them away as like that somehow being poor is you can't wash it off on hide it. Yeah. Yeah. Can't hide smells and smell offends right? It's it depends on the smell. But if it's a smell, you don't like it offends and it's something you can't hide. Yeah. Like you said, gives it away gives your status away. And Yeah I. I thought this use of the odor was really clever. I thought it was really clever device in the phone. Yeah and like I was reading this piece by Laura marks she writes it's a it's a it's an academic piece journal article but talks about. This smell as a potential sensory tool for analysis like analyzing a film where media and I was just thinking about like. Colonization to a certain extent. So. Like Korea is a South Korea's now a developed nation. It's one of the wealthier nations in the world now. But there is still such a thing as global hierarchy right as we as we know after the the Korean civil war. South Korea and north. Korea were separated because of USSR and US, cold? War tensions so. So. Unions will take care of North Korea. US. You take south. Korea and will be cool. Right. So Korea was divided because of foreign cold war tensions. And South. Korea. Was Pretty much right after its liberation from Japanese combination which lasted from nineteen thousand, nine, hundred, forty, five, South Korea was like, okay. Well, I mean I guess we're technically free but no, they weren't free right like you. USSR and US took over all of those spaces and occupations enrolls that Japan was occupying, right? and. When the Japanese Colonize Out Korea, they had this notion that like, oh, Japan was going to be the new imperial empire in Asia and they were going to colonize all these countries and. They're going to become just as successful as the West just as imperial as the West that was the dream Japan had, and then of course, you know the United States bomb the shit out of Japan and destroyed the country and you know lost World War Two. Japan the Japanese Lake during this colonization process with Korea, they had this sanitation policy. So the Japanese would look down on the Koreans and say you know they're so backward and you know they're very agrarian like you said, there was a rural economy. So curious full of mountains and Fields of farming. And they were like, they don't know sanitation. and. The Japanese didn't like the smells of South Koreans because of what whatever their lifestyle was like. And so not only do you have that but you also have this the the cuisine of South, Korea where there's a lot of fermentation. So you have lake ten John, which is a soybean fermented soybean paste, and then you have a Kimchi as everybody now knows. Back in nineteen ninety two when I first emigrated to the United States and I, brought my Korean food lunch to my ps one twenty-seven. Brooklyn. Public School. Okay. The horror. The trauma that it left on everybody because they brought a role of king up to class I mean it was just unbelievable, right? The smell of sesame oil, the smell of fermented Kimchi this, and this this lunch story is like universal. You could ask you literally grabbed any Asian off the street and be like, do you have a lunch story with white people and there'd be like yes? Yes, I, do I've heard my childhood it's like a ritual. It's a rite of passage into childhood. Immigrant childhood trauma in the United States, and so you have the smell that offense, the fermented cabbage smell that offense. But today. You have white people eating Kimchi in their cars like a salad with no problem. Why? How how does that happen? Right. So like South Korea went through this huge globalization process in the in the nineties this president and King's home was like I want South Korea to be just as globally branded and successful S. Japan right because and by the Japan, was kicking ass like Sony was global Japan at a huge stake in Hollywood through Sony. They had Walkman, Walkmans came from Japan in Hello Kitty. Everywhere. Right. Japanese. Sushi was a huge thing, right? Yeah and you know everybody was getting down with Japanese products and Korea was like we need to get there. Right because you know Korea doesn't have a lot of natural resources. They don't have a lot to export and they needed to make it economically and so they started. Doing this. Global branding process and Kimche was a big part of that. So it's it's no accident that suddenly white people are eating at cars like a salad. Okay. This was very much like step by step procedure that South Korea went through as a government. K pop being global that's also not an accident. Korean dramas being on Netflix is not an accident. Korean films winning can't palm doors not an accident like the Korea's been trying Korean films finally, winning an Oscar is not an accident Korea's been trying to win an Oscar for decades and they finally was able to do this and so Yeah. Globalization is a big part of this and I will also say US neocolonialism is also a big part of this because it's like Korea to convince the United States that. Create was not a stinky country or you can get down with the stink. You know it's an acquired stench acquired odor acquired taste and you can get down with an it's like this. The branding thing tricks you you know it gets people on board and South Korea has been doing it for thirty years. He finally did it. Yeah. Wow that yeah, that's such helpful context. Thank you for. Truly like there we we are very much on a learning learning curve here. So that is incredibly helpful. I mean even in understanding how the Park's behave in this movie where there's like I had I was sort of guessing my way around it. Preview in my previous reads of the movie where I mean they are very responsive to Western culture I. think that there is like that commentary in there with their sons fixation on native American culture and the native culture, and also the cowboy culture that is kind of the. False colonial inverse to it right and as as well as how easily their fooled. So like one of the themes that I. Really. that. Hit for me more on this viewing just having read through more interviews with the director is the fact that the parks aren't necessarily they're not made out to be these villains necessarily. which is cool I. Mean you still aren't extremely upset with Mr. Park dies at the end like he hasn't coming. It is Cathartic to see him go down for treating poor people. So dismissively, but there is a quote from Bunk joon-ho that he did in a really incredible vulture profile from last year. where he says basically that it is a movie with No. And no villains and even though the perks are made out to be more gullible dismissive and ignorant of the lower classes rather than actively. Whatever rubbing their hands together patting the cat and saying like I know exactly what they'll do. They're completely unaware uninterested and I mean even to bring back the the smell metaphor like upset when a reminder of the lower classes is intrusive in the smallest way to their to their daily life. Especially because like the park family only wants to deal with anyone from the lower class as long as they seem also like elite you know what? I, mean. We're like they. He gets out little business card for like the care which is like this elite housekeeping membership service and with a lot of gates. Yeah. Right. Exactly and they find Mr Kim as the driver appealing because he was working for this wealthy family of. The, the forgery of the College degree document you had like the in the two kids ki-jong in Q. Jessica and Kevin. They actually presented themselves as fellow equals fellow socioeconomic equals like. To say that they studied abroad like Jessica says she studied Illinois. To say that as a marker of Elitism, right the way that Mrs. Park speckles an English whenever she can you know to give these people like to address them in English names Jessica and Kevin it's a marker of Elitism and that's why I say that he was new colonial kind of tones are in there because Korea South Korea Equates elitism and success and financial security with America it's not working out for anybody. In this concept of I really like that. Paul mentioned that because in the context of like I don't. I. Don't know if this make to heavy but in the context of. In a melodrama as a frame rate melodrama MELODRAMAS oftentimes. They say that there is a narrative mode within melodrama. So when you watch a melodrama, there's a very clear evil person very clear hero, right like a young girl, an orphan girl working class work so hard so honest you know so beautiful. So caring right, but she just can't get out of the shits right and what does she do just a hot rich guy and she does and the hot rich guy likes. Her because she's so honest and hard-working but there's always an evil bitch who likes that rich guy to she'll do anything to bring her down right and so it's very clear who the villain is and who the victim is but in a neoliberal liberal context of melodrama, there is no clear villain. There's just a victim right? You know nobody ever names the villain everybody always names victimhood like my victim at my plate. That that's just a very clever way to present. That is to say that yeah, like in capitalism may be there is no villain after all to say like all these people are evildoers is. Perhaps not realistic right to vilify these people would get the characters would be caricatures they wouldn't be relatable at all. And that's something we talk about on the podcasts quite a bit although in a different context, we usually have disgusted from the point of view of like certain male characters in movies being predators, and then being Zo cartoonish Lee evil that no, one would ever be able to see themselves in someone. So cartoonish Lee Evil and they're like, well, I can't I'm not a Predator like that. So I'm not a Predator right but like. Really, not all men. Like you would never make any I mean it's A frustrated way it's just like good business to make that choice because you don't want your average consumer to look at something and be like, wait a second I feel called out I'm leaving you know like. Yeah. So it's easier to go the cartoon route. And like Amy Schumer talk about that too where when she was like, you know people think that like rape is. Rape or sexual assault is like they think of a very conveniently. You know like a stranger attacks, you an assault, your rapes you but yeah most sexual assault happens with people you know and trust you know somebody that's completely human in your life, and that's what makes sexual assault all the more traumatic confusing. but it's almost never depicted that way in media never it's never your beloved handsome boyfriend who has a stable job and knows your parents really well and takes care of your younger brother. It's never that guy but in reality it is more often than not it. Factually the prime candidate and that's what's so interesting to me about this movie is that a lot of movies that comment on class will be like rich people bad poor people good poor people can do no wrong and it's the poor people taking down the rich people which don't get me wrong. I like a lot of those movies and I think they have a lot of value and I find them to be very cathartic. But on the other hand this movie has a much more complex examination of that where it's like it's almost like well, the desperation of poverty makes you have to compete with other lower class people and that's why When we as it push a second family into the basement so that you can live upstairs. Get other people fire so you could take their play. Yes. Exactly. They're the there's the scene where the Kim family is drunk I feel like this is stated most singly where they have this conference. There's a few different from this conversation that you're like, okay. This is kind of the thesis or felt to me what the movie is but one of the moments that really stuck with me that I hadn't. I hadn't given a ton of attention to in previous watching were when they're talking about I think it is Q. and Mr Kim start to talk about how the driver got fired and they're like, oh. What do you think he's doing now he probably got a good job. He's fine conscious plagues. Yeah but then the daughter who is more drunk than everyone. Interrupts and says. We're the ones who need help worry about, US okay and that line it never really jumped out to me before. But that he is so much of what it seems like trying to be said about like you can't really fault her for that mindset because. This is a family that's trying to lift themselves out of poverty, and that is a brutal experience that often requires. Pushing other people down to get there like it. Grace were you were just saying about I. Don't know just kind of the narrative we're presented with and over and over of being lifted out of poverty, and then you're just you've taken the place of the rich people and you're probably going to do the right thing and it's very easy and it's but but this is like the most one of the most. Brutal like funny interpretations of that experience. To the point where it's like, yes she kind of has to say we're the ones who need help worry about us because. If the Kim family was worrying and doting on these other people, they wouldn't be where they are and that's not to say that poor people are not helping each other out. That's certainly not true I mean. We're seeing around us currently how much mutual aid is going on and how people are at. It's not to say that people are completely disinterested in helping each other even if they don't have a lot of privilege themselves, but in this example and in this large metaphor. It totally makes sense and it's brutal the here but. Yeah I. Don't know that line had never really jumped out to me before this viewing. Yeah I totally agree with everything you said. Statistically, it's the people with a lower income who have more compassion and empathy this. This is factually true. Yeah. The more money you have the less in touch you are with humanity and compassion and all of that no matter how many tax deductible charity donations person makes right? But? So you have this sense of guilt conscience that Mr Kim and q both kind of. And then. John gets angry and says now focus on us. You know the ones living in poverty and Mrs Kim also says that she's like they're so everybody in the family so sweet and kind of no. Yeah. because. If you're wealthy you. Of course, you'll be kind of course you'll be happy. You'll be nice. You know she was like, if I had money I'd be just as Nice. It's Kinda true. You know when you come from the Shit's you're going to have some of the Shit marks the odors you're gonNA have more wrinkles you're gonNA seem a little more referenda urges. I love that exchange. That whole as a family unit it's like that that dialogue was like A. Commentary on how complicated it is to live in a capital society as a low income household. And I like that it's ki-jong and Mrs Kim that point these things out because they're I mean in general and this is this is not even a criticism of the movie I think it's just kind of like something that shows up in Male Otter movies all the time is like at the end of the day it's about fathers and sons That's so many movies and that is I mean, it's not June hose fault. It's just the fact that men make most movies and so this is a theme we see a lot. So I I don't know if I on this looking for those like really clarify most of those clarifying moments come from the women and the family and the fact that Qizheng is the mastermind of basically this entire plan and gets them to where they are which I think probably contributes to her frustration that they're talking about something else when she is like. Basically gotten them to all this in the first place. Yeah, I, mean I. One of the only things that I wish I had we had more of in this movie I wish that there was a little more Mrs Kim like I feel like she steals every scene she's in she's so great. She's amazing and the four I like she's kind of the least present. She's the last family member to get hired, and then I don't know I mean I think it's just the father son dynamic that kind of takes up more of the air in that plot, which again isn't a problem. I just wish that you saw a little more of her. that. Yes, she's the actress name is Tongue hidden and she's actually in a very, very popular Korean drama netflix's call crash landing onto you anyway. Yeah. She's remarkable and her character is also really interesting. I mean she was like. What is it like a shot put thrower What that is what she was like an Olympic athletes maybe like she was like she was an athlete she was a silver medal winning athlete right and like sports is such a big deal for Koreans. You know it's like sports is usually a form of way out of poverty usually. What went wrong. What went wrong for her I'm so curious you know like a silver medallists like the father is like he's done a bunch of maybe he's the person who brought her to ruin. You know she married the wrong he's shit. You know and Oh and another interesting parallel was that the Kim family they were also like they also face financial ruin with the cake shop they say like a Castilla Taiwanese cake shop and Stella is like this sponge cake pastry that like Koreans loved you know like in the eighties and nineties because it was so Aryan fluffy and delicious, and like it was a popular cultural product that they were selling in lot of bakeries. But anyway, dot went bust and then they were just stuck in financial ruin and in the basement, the guy says the same thing he's like oh my. Castilla Bakery went bust and and then the wife is again, we took out money with loan sharks. It's much more severe than debt collectors loansharking as a huge issue in Korea. Essentially gangsters and thugs who will comment break your Legs Destroy Your House Destroy Business Kill people whatever in order to collect debt and the interest rate is ridiculously high. It's like beyond credit cards and it's impossible to get out of debt when you get stuck with loan sharks and so yeah, that's that's also like this interesting parallel. It's like an how the Kim family wasn't the same circumstances as the. The housekeeper and her husband, and yet they're not willing to give up their position as of now. Right they're not willing to really work with them. Being just wanted to kind of call the police and. Oust him right until the family fell from the stairs and ruined everything. I would also say that like I say kee-chung is the mastermind all of it I would say it's It's a it was a collective effort between ki-jong 'n Q. Because you wouldn't have gotten that job if it was forest friend, right to come in, give him that position kion was kind of like the facilitators with documents this and that I would say Q. was more of the mastermind the one that was making all these plans I been. So called plan, right? Yeah. Just kind of coming back to what you were just talking about grace where it's kind of the Kim's seem resistant to seeing themselves in this other family even though. Like you were saying, they had a very similar financial problem and were taken advantage of a similar way and another example of where again it was just not something that had jumped out to me on previous viewings where it's the senior it's just Mr Kim and the housekeeper's husband in the basement and Mr Kim is kind of disgusted by the basement and is at asks basically, how can you live here like how can you live like this and then the husband replies by saying like well, it's not that dissimilar from. He doesn't know that he's saying it's not that dissimilar from your own apartment but that's essentially what he's saying like we're not that different at all the same and then to see the environmental differences of. And this is something we see in the states all the time of how something like a rainstorm can seem so like nothing to a rich family and they're kind of like, oh, the weather sucks. But let's finger each other in our sons out in his tank. Blah Blah Blah. fingering each other and then. People's homes are being destroyed. A frontline community that the kids are a part of. Their whole life is being destroyed, and then you've got these rich people fingering each other on a hill and exactly yeah and it was so that I mean that's seeing of the rainstorm and the Father Daughter Son walking you know all the way home through the rain and the coming down that huge. You know that was metaphorical right I mean. You have this rock shaped like mountains you know, and it's like, how do you get there but it all does come down like you know you just follow them going down down down that living is this huge metaphor of the basement every everybody all the poor live in a basement. And all that rain and shit goes down there all the rich people's Shit goes down there, and that's in their clothes that's in their stuff, and that's the smell that comes wafting out of them when they come and try to meet with people in society you know, I think the house structure that that that big scene with the stairs going down to their little town there I think that is just the this visual metaphor of class infrastructure. And that mobility going upwards as so impossibly difficult and high, and how does one do that? It's like barely it's barely doable and then. And then like it's like, no, it's like everybody just replaces one another shoes ray it's like the Kim family kicked out everybody that was working for the parks. And then even even the guy that was hiding in the basement contentedly, right I. Mean I just feel like I'm just of this world now it's like as if I was born here, it's like it's like as if I got married here is I live here right? That's what the housekeeper's husband says, and it's like even that position is replaced by Mister Kennedy Right? Like they really took over that house like fully and. Even. Like. The the the Motif of the parasite is like it's like, what else can they do? You know in order to survive? It's like they have to lie. They have to steal the have sneak out at night and tried to steal some fruit and take it back down to the basement so they could eat US survive. You know what else can they do? Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Certainly no one else is making space for them to exist. So. It's just a matter of taking someone else down to take up where they are. It's just yeah. I also like how like we use the audience don't really even call into question like well wouldn't the park family like what if they were to meet like Mr Kim spouse but like because the park family is so just consumed by themselves and don't they don't think about people lower class than them you would just. Imagine that Mr Park would never ask Mr Kim about his wife or his children or late bothered to learn anything about them. Yeah. Because they're far too self absorbed. Exactly. Yeah. Like when Mr Kim as he's driving Mr Parker and when whenever he turns around to say something you know and they almost get into an accident at one point like Mr Park, there's just keep your eye on the road like turn around right. You're supposed to face that way not back towards me here, crossing the line crossing that offense with so much You know it's so interesting and like just to talk a little bit more about the basement like this is something I've been thinking about a long time and there's this. Short story. That's very famous and Korea called wings. It's written by modernist call hung. And It's a story about a man who is living in a room that is it's like in the farthest back of the House and then there's this partition and then beyond the partition is the wife's room. And in order to access his room, you have to go through the wife's room, right so this man is essentially stuck right and the wife is like the gatekeeper and the man is like unemployed jobless he barely eats barely gets any sunlight whatever he does in that room is only permissible if the wife allows them to and the wife is a prostitute. So she works in that other room and the man says in this other room, he's like I'm very content with living here and he felt like that was very present in the basement scene with the housekeeper's husband. And and hung wrote that story when Korea was occupied by Japan right and it's like when you're colonized, right, let's say you're colonized by another imperial country or if you're colonized by capitalism whatever it is, and you become content and living there and you don't have any desire to be mobile whatever get out. then. It's like what happens. Right and I thought that was very much a theme and that yeah. That story I don't think anybody does that was just my reading of it I need to write about for some asshole does. Well, because the housekeeper's husband, he worships Mr. Park. He like almost looks at him as a god of sorts and I feel like that's also very I guess just kind of allegorical of the way society teaches people you need to respect these rich people you need to respect the people with the rich jobs and and but if you encounter them, they're like who the fuck are you right? They don't smell I don't like you -actly. Yeah. It's like, do you know me right right and he's like he's like subservient like. ritualistically whenever when when anybody else walks up those stairs, those lights don't go on. It's only when Mr Park goes up those stairs than the lights go on like that and it's like when the housekeepers husband's down there he goes into this like militaristic mode like he saluting him right? Right. And I feel again, there is at. This colonial commentary again, Lake Lot of Koreans before division were recruited by the Japanese for World War One and World War Two. You know a lot of those kamikaze pilots were Koreans who were unwilling to kill themselves. Okay. By crash landing onto other countries so Yeah there's that huge huge US military presence in Korea and all over the world. Actually there's like over eighty countries with US military presence. Yeah and Yeah. I think I think a lot of that is is in there yeah, and that's another example two of Mr Kim kind of. Having a similar trait to the housekeeper's husband He. Probably wouldn't want to admit that there's I. Think I can think of two examples where Mr Kim specifically there's one when they're drinking beer and the basement after they start getting paid by the parks and he's like, let's poor went out for Mister Park like it's so good of him to give this to us even though he doesn't always giving it to us and then again when he's in the basement at the end of the movie he I mean he's murdered Mr Park, but he like apologizes. More. Sure. All the time and remorseful and it's still like Mr, Park even at his time of death didn't know who he was really i. mean he just knew the facade that he was presenting to survive right? Right right? Yeah. We got to take another quick break, but then we'll come right back for more discussion. Hello everybody Jamie from the Bechtel cast here to talk about one of my favorite fashion companies of all time. 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Wanted to shout out in a negative way comedian Neal Brennan who famously could not figure out that the parasite it was. I remember there was like a big everyone was like dumping on him on twitter this happened and he for some reason, did not delete the tweets but this is back in February this year. He tweeted is it too early to say the central metaphor parasite didn't actually work who is the Paris? Say the richer the poor with that in mind explain the third act to me like he just. It was really listening to this podcast. Neal Brennan. He would never. But he's problematic. Yeah he's the worst I don't like his general. Outlook on gender. He yeah his his house look I just I've yet to see he is such a victim right? As we've seen three Mike's. Thought it was so interesting how lake nobody gave Neal Brennan any shit for doing three Mike's which was like. A. Third of it was just like this you know his him groveling on stage of his victimhood and then when Hannah gadsby she did her thing everybody was so up in arms about whether or not this is comedy full. Time you're dumping on her yeah. Yeah, and it's like Why don't you start with Neal Brennan Special, which came out before Monette. And then question to get if you want to be here New York Times wrote. His most recent fuck up was immediately defending KRISTA Leah but. Oh My. Oh which really slept his not understanding parasite even one percent. Hug. I remember that Neal Brennan insisted that twitter explain to him. It's funny. He's too rich. The rich people were Nice. So what's the problem? Let's like? And that's kind of the brilliance of this movie is like there. The problem is looming over them, but it's not personified. Grace and Jamie to people have mentioned the idea of the plan and the master plan that the Kim family. Have crafted are trying to follow and this is a huge motif. Throughout the movie, We talked about this a little bit on our recent, set it off episode where in that movie different characters discuss having a plan for the future and what's your five year plan and stuff like that and the you know upper class characters like well yes. Of course I have a plan in its this and then the lower income characters are always like I'm just trying to survive one day. At a time and just the idea of like having a plan is such a like middle or upper middle class or wealthy privileged thing to be able to have an in this gets explored quite a bit in parasite where they form this plan to infiltrate the park family and to end up working for them. It works for a very short amount of time. But then like shit hits the fan even like when. The. Former housekeeper shows up on the doorstep like Q. is like this isn't part of the plan. We don't know what to do. This isn't this unexpected. This is not part of our plan, and then Mr. Kim gives this really great monologue after their apartment has been flooded in there like having to spend the night in a gym he says you know what kind of plan never fails no plan at. All. If you make a plan life never works out that way. That's why people shouldn't make plans with no plan. Nothing can go wrong and if something spins out of control, it doesn't matter none of it fucking matters because yeah. Like people from a lower socio economic class simply don't have the resources and the privilege to form and execute plans that actually ever work, and then the movie ends with. Cuba. Being like. Here's my plan I'm going to get a job I'm going to go to that university I'm going to you know have a career I'm GonNa make a bunch of money, and then I'm going to buy this house, and then you know dad you're gonNA come out of hiding and we're all going to reunite, but it all plays out again is a flash forward. It's like a dream sequence more than anything 'cause then it cuts back to q in the in his basement level apartment it's a fantasy it's completely a fantasy. There is no way he's going to get out of the way he suffered a huge brain injury you know. I. Mean. He's he's a disabled man and he has a record You know he has a criminal record and I mean having a criminal record in Korea's also like a huge damning fate you know Being a disabled person. Huge damning thing he actually Puno does play with themes like that like criminality and disability in his other films. I would really strongly recommend memories of murder by the way I would say all of his films. That's his best work. Okay. I haven't seen that one. Yeah. I really enjoyed it. Yeah. Where did you see that I'm just curious I had to find a rip of IT Online? Yeah. There's IT's some it's not available anywhere. Yeah. It's such a good movie. Will the man who please Mr Kim is also But yet, anyway, there's always somebody with disability in like his movies and I think that's their intentionally he is like. Joe Is making a commentary about South Korea not making it easy for people with disabilities to survive like live among everybody. AMMONIA ASLI in society there was a a read of the plan theme that I really liked was from that same vulture profile. It was for I. Guess for follow up of that profile by a writer and e Alex Cheung who is a great? Yes. We we've quoted him before radical. Alex John stamos Leslie Yeah Okay. So e Alex Cheung, we have quoted a number of times. He writes most of the major profiles for New York magazine and he's just a fucking incredible writer, but he argues in the follow up to profile that hope is the emotional. So according to hope is the emotional parasite and the film the thing that keeps us going, but sucks are Mero dry. So the whatever the true parasite being discussed because I feel like the initial wave of reviews and discussion about this film, there was a lot of. Who was the parasite? Who Am the parasite? Neal Brennan who what is apparently was like what they didn't tell me who the parasite wasn't my third act but people are so basic Yeah. I mean it's even it's like I mean whether this is a very simple things are spoon fed to them. They want somebody to say. I am the parasite all. Got Swipe the titles Paris-i I'm the devil, Wears Prada I am the parasite. Everyone wants that Spartak has moment like that's. Exactly. I am a demon prince. I'm quoting I. Frankenstein now I am I Frankenstein. He does say that though. On saying he basically does but but I do I mean that is I think the most distinct read of what if there is a parasite that it's it's you. Desire to want to keep trying to make a plan in spite of all evidence to the contrary, which is kind of what capitalism encourages you to do is like Oh who cares how many times this dream kicks you in the face and tells you to fuck off and tells you you smell tells you? Just, works against you. In every way just bootstrap get back up try again you've got this American capitalist Christian mentality. Pay Your dues. Yes. I get up keep going and it's like. What does that say like if you keep doing something over and over again, expecting a different result every time you're psychopath right? The true definition everybody in a capital society. That's literally everybody. But. With the plant thing though I think Alex is really so beautiful. It's like an inverse shawshank redemption. In Freeman. Is like hope kills. Like hope drives a man crazy and then like the guy he's like, you know he writes. A letter I hope is a beautiful thing or And it's like. No. It does it. It makes you it will destroy you. Destroy. Everything inside of you your family everything you love. But Yeah I think that's a really lovely reading to say that hope is the parasite for sure. I. Mean his plan at the end that I mean in a way like hopes that. Even. Though in your heart of heart of heart of hearts, you're like, this is not gonNa fucking happen but like I could see how that would be necessary to his continuing to. Live is like hoping that things will change are hoping that this might be attainable even though we watching it know that. It is deeply unlikely that that will ever happen. Right it's like everybody has this inner will to live for some reason even the guy in the basement with who has literally no life no sunlight no netflix you know how does he pass the time? Right and it's like he still living still stealing food and living he's going on. Oh and in the Mr Kim's monologue which I love that monologue. Yeah and you you read it beautifully but he does also say. You know when you're making these plans like even if you don't even if it's not in your plan in the spur of the moment like you might kill. Aman. You might see a country he says those things. I think that's very important because you know again like Korea as a colony. Had to do those very things you know like a lot of people had to. In order to keep their wealth or attain wealth, they had to sell their country out and. Align with the Japanese imperial forces a lot of people had to do that, and then when North and south was divided a lot of South Koreans had to go into hiding because they were like, well, you were you you were a traitor to your country. You know there was a lot of that too but a lot of the people continue to retain their wealth I need. That's where Samson comes from Yeah. You have a lot of that lot of murdering especially during the Korean War when when you know it's like you couldn't tell who is communist who is not You know how can you tell that there's no marker of communism per se lot of innocent people lost their lives because of this whole this paranoia which comes from McCarthyism you know. It's a it's a constructive paranoia that was injected into other countries. Paranoia over the COMMIE and a lot of innocent people lost their lives and there's actually a movie that was on Chiduo Island, which is like an just off the coast of south. Korea. It's belongs to South Korea. It's like there in Ireland. So their languages like their dialect is also very unique to. You but a lot of innocent people lost their lives on that island during the Korean War like people showed up and they were like, are you a communist like what's a communist? GonNa get shot you know what I mean it was literally like that. You know and win Americans were there you know in in Korea bombing the shit out of Korea. They couldn't tell who was North Korean who is a South Korean right? They just simply couldn't how could you tell you know? And that's where the word Google comes from. You know a lot of these derogatory racially and ethnically derogatory terms come from military speak military language because you have to create an enemy right and you have to make them consciously up to lower them in your brain right the dehumanize them in order to justify killing them actually. Yes. So this rational, this hyper rationalizing of killing a man of selling out your country, it's also kind of this capitals motif. Hyper hyper rationalizing is done in capitalist. System, this happens a lot. It's like, Oh, like I will lose thirty five pounds in a month because I will fit into that dress for that film role because they told me too because it means wealth fame I will do it. Because I'm not I'm not selling my soul out I'm not disrespecting my body I'm doing it for a job I'm doing it for money which I will give to my family to. Write a hyper rationalizing all under. including. The Kim family including the park family everybody Well, even yet in the way that the Kim family needs to lower family very similar to themselves in order to rationalize killing them like. Even. Like in when they first encounter the housekeeper and her husband in the basement and the housekeeper is pleading with the Kim Sys Command sister, we have a sisterhood we're we're in we're of the same ilk we are in the same class and and and Mrs Kim is like, no, we're not like fuck you and then as soon as the tables turn, she has to take the exact same approach would be like you sister come on and it's just like everybody's replaceable. Everybody's replaceable in capitalist machine and on the other end of that where. The Kim family has to you know bullshit to survive. So often so much and they have to do it with people who are in there who are also poor, and then they have to do it with the park family where. I mean like some of the funniest moments in this movie just involved how easily the park family is able to be convinced that something is luxury as top of the line because of how it rained to them how it's presented to them where. The Qizheng scene where she's art therapist and she's just like spoiling bullshit and she says later Google. Art Therapy and like ad-libbed the rest. But she just. The word schizophrenia. Yeah. The Schizophrenia Zone I'm like. Well, that's not good. Yeah she just. Not a doctor just made it up and again I think it's because she's English you know like these English words Make it sound like ki-jong knows what she's talking about and so Mrs Park is just like okay. Mrs Park is interesting too as a character would say, Yo, she's really interesting I had never I. Guess this is the closest I've ever looked at her character specifically because I was curious I mean the park family represents a lot of. ELITISM and a lot of rich people stuff right but but it feels like she really encapsulates the ignorance of a rich family where I mean it's mentioned in that scene. We talked about that. She's so nice and she's and. Yeah, yeah, that deep naivety that she will I mean the we hear her described as young in simple before we ever meet her by men in a scene where they are I mean we haven't even talked about the relationship with teenager yet, but we'll get there. I mean it's like I. Feel like it's clear to the viewer that she thinks that she's doing the right thing she is trying to be a good mother. She is trying to be a good wife, but it's not what she's thinking about. That's the problem. It's what she is not in thinking about defines her like and makes her look bad. She's not thinking about the people around her. She's not thinking about her employees she doesn't I mean her and Mr Park. Don't ever ask the Kim's anything about themselves, which is part of the reason is. So much is because the parks don't care who they are or what their background is. They just need the right pitch of like the Elitism we talked about before. You know I have studied abroad. I've done this I've done that and they're like, okay great. I will believe whatever you say good enough and I don't want to hear anything else. Might you ever again right stop talking to me? Yeah. That's a good point like when Mr Kin Guests Mr Park the care card. Mrs Park calls the cares phone number. Yeah, and then kee-chung picks up the phone and pretends to be that gatekeeper the manager here she's like asking for all these documents. To Your House. Social Security number and she like she knows the parts inside out. All of their information down missiles park is just like, okay. You need the title to my house fine makes sense. Makes Sense to me, and she's like so desperate, you could see the Meson centers like she's pulling out the dishwasher that's over packed like you should never Luna dishwasher like that. And that, and then it's like you know she's clearly suffering like Mr Park says, it's like my wife sucks at household duties no and. She just desperate to stop doing that lake she wants to sit out on on her in her garden on her patio and take a nap when we that's how we first encounter rate and. Just to not do those things, she'll. She'll give away the house. All of this all that information. No problem. Oh. She thinks housework is beneath her. She never got good at it because she's never had to do it. Yeah. Usually. It's been spoon fed silver spoon like what do you mean I have to do these things just make the leading do and in the same way Mr and Mrs Parker able to be convinced the absolute worst of people that they find lesser than them and that's part of the reason the Kim's are able to get their jobs is because immediately I mean this was another thing I hadn't really considered super carefully because the scene is pretty funny how grossed out Mr Mrs Parker by finding underwear in the car and when she touches her face with the gloves and then You just touch those underwear. This movie is very funny but subtexts to that scene is they jump from finding a pair like a pair of underwear in the back of a car to our driver who has far less money than us is probably addicted to drugs and is probably doing this and and the Kim's are i. mean they know that these rich people have all these preconceptions of what poor people are like and you just give them the smallest scrap of anything. They're gonNA catastrophes it into this completely false narrative and and fire someone instead of just instead of I mean that whole thing is asking instead of. asking. One thing it's like they don't want to deal with any kind of discomfort including an uncomfortable conversation right at the end. The fucked up thing is they don't give them a chance to explain or possibly improve you fuck up once you're out and they don't tell you why they're outing you. That's that's a constant thing that comes up with every single person that's fired they never they never. They're always like you know I'm not gonNA say like that I found. A bloody tissue and a thing I'll just make up something and ask her to leave vague. Some vague. With the with the driver to. Something Day I'm not GonNa talk to him about like whether or not yes. SEX WITH A. A Hooker, who's on drugs in the back seat of my car I'm not GonNa ask that I'm just GonNa. Maybe just make some make up some excuse afire. Again comes you know ties into this Motif of social mobility being impossible. If somebody fires you without cause without explaining to you why without having a conversation, it's an injustice. And they can't this couple of can't even be straight with each other like they can't. They can't. She harbors secrets. Yeah. Yeah. Like she she does not tell Mr Park why she's fired the housekeeper like there's just and he doesn't ask either. No, he's just like with her my wife won't explain won't tell me but it's fine simply living a lie. They really are. A convenient lie. Yeah. So I I wanted to about Mr Kim and cues relationship even though I mean we kind of reference often like how father son relationships are usually given more narrative wait in movies in general than mother son mother daughter, whatever it is. But even though that is true of this movie I, really really appreciate how emotionally open this father son relationship is. That's usually the friction in a father son relationship is like, but we just can't talk to each other men can't express themselves but I mean, from the jump Mr Kim is so a few sieve with his praise and how proud he is of both of his kids. where I went when Qizheng forges the document, he's like, wow, you're a genius. You did it. You're amazing and when Q. Discusses his first plan at the beginning of the movie when he's going off to the park house and he's like I'm going to go to college and you know this is temporary and then I'm going to do this this and this and Mr Kim is thrill he's like I'm so proud of you. That's amazing. Good job and I I really appreciated seeing a father son relationship where the conflict is not that they are being dishonest or not emotionally open with each other. It's like you don't see that very much Yeah. They're they are very open as a family. I noticed that too like the children Kinda like cursing allot in front of. Their parents like they swear a lot with see she bought over and over again like casually I was just like, whoa like what does that mean she by means like fuck? It's like a swear word they say by all the time and I was just like I couldn't speak that way in front of my parents I curse but in English couldn't person Korean in front of them like that's just like another level of. I don't know like rebellion and trust that I just simply don't have in me I. Guess. But, yeah they're they're quite open and it's like they're very tightly knit because they're co dependent on one another. And it's like you see a lot of that among lower income communities and families like you have to depend on one another like a far will not function without having twelve children. You know what I mean you need to have this twelve kids in order for the farm to really work so. Yeah, it's definitely visible. Especially where the parks I mean with their children as well. There's just there's only walls and kind of seeing how those walls are kind of privilege in. The even though you can tell I mean the park's daughter is kind of suffering from the lack of communication and attention that her parents will give her. They clearly think that their son is hot shit and there's a favouritism. Yeah. Definitely and I mean I think Mrs Park goes kind of out of her way to like. I. Don't think my daughter is very smart but we'll just kind of says that I missed that part she mentioned that like she's she's struggling in school where she's kind of saying like, Oh my son made a drawing and he's a genius. She's like my daughter like it just her if she says something like regardless of her grades implying that she doesn't get good grades despite her having this intensive tutoring. which kind of transition into talking about Q. and their daughter as well. But I mean it's like she's she's she definitely has some emotional suffering going that I mean, if he doesn't really have full. Neglected by. Family the son absorbs everything not only because of this past trauma that he has but also because of this potential genius whatever he has like. The father obviously favors when he comes home, he shouts you know won't calls the Son. Daughter you know it's very obvious like who is the? Like the centerpiece of this household and it's definitely the sun and she's neglected. And when she gets some attention from her male tutor, who is she is underage and he is in his twenties. It's completely inappropriate. Yeah. She does it and it's like. Of course, she did it with the other guy right with me help the front right it's like and we want to be really careful about how this is framed. You know she's a child she is not to blame here. It's the adult. It's cue who is seeing how she's neglected. `vulnerability and even if his intentions aren't nefarious doesn't matter it's still very wrong. It's still predatory. Exactly. It's exactly what Kristalina did to all those girls. Yeah. God Damn. I knew. His way into. And then Neal Brennan. Chris Delia good. He's good. He's a boy I. R- relationship that's like I think one of the it's interesting though because it You mentioned this a bit ago the the kind of traditional lifting yourself out of poverty narrative in movies tends to be you know like an attractive person from a higher class pays you mind and all of a sudden you're lifted and everything is so easy which is kind of becomes overtime cues. Original plan is he does seem to like her we think it's not. Like a complete falsehood even though it is deeply I, mean he should not be pursuing this child right but but it does seem like that is a part of the original plan of like, Oh, this girl likes me. So I'm going to I mean similar he kind of just co-ops men's original plan, which is waited until she leaves diversity, right? So she goes to. College. And then Mary into this family and be set for life in the way the exactly I mean I guess it's it's a bit of it is this aversion in that not only? Is it kind of gender swapped? It also doesn't work and shouldn't work right. I mean you feel for her because it's like she? The kids are like not they're not necessarily doing anything wrong they're yeah. They're just children. He shouldn't have pursued a fifteen year old you know. Right. And I don't know what the movie is trying to say exactly with this predatory relationship I don't know if it's like. Again like the desperation of poverty and like here's what you might stoop to to try to get out of poverty. You know like being a Predator or being a murderer. and. I don't think this movie is saying that like if you're poor, you're going to be driven to murder and predatory. And that's a blanket statement across the board. The movie isn't saying that it's a it's an explanation of the motives yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I've seen a few the few. Missed misinterpretation or not misinterpret I mean no interval days but basically just saying like. there there was an article in the Guardian that basically makes the argument of like. Well, doesn't this movie just say that if poor people have access to a rich person's lifestyle that they will then murder and prey on people but I don't think that that's what this movie is really saying at all and I mean even the criticism that I've seen. This is a piece I don't know I just disagree with this writers Statement Her News Hana Hyun and this was a piece that was in the Guardian in February of this year but her argument which I understand but she's she's basically like kind of dumping on the Kim's for the second the parks leave they start drinking and like having fun which first of all this family does not get to fucking have find and. I don't know what bothers me about that read of their behavior is it completely lines up with the no plan mentality that this family you know generally has to thrive on of like if not. Now, when are they going to get the chance to drink all this overpriced like ridiculous alcohol and eat and have fun and talk with each other and like. Yeah. Yeah. The rich families on vacation why shouldn't the? The poor family also go on vacation right Waiting to themselves. Yeah. Yeah. does anyone have any final thoughts about the film I mean we haven't necessarily discussed the representation of gender that much. But also like I didn't even know what to say about it aside from just like there's gender parity in the cast of characters between men and women. The female characters are all actively participating in the story in meaningful ways. There's a few kind of like slightly gendered things that I notice where it's like, oh, well, like of three of the four major female characters in the movie. One of the main things we know about them is how good or bad they are at domestic housework. But I mean like it's kind of the men that are discussing that and it's like well, what do they care about these characters and then it's the first thing they think to discuss. So right? I'm like I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt on that one. Yeah. It didn't like. Don't me too much Yeah. I he's a like of the Korean like tours, the male tours that are heralded by can and. All these other top tier, one film festivals around the world. Like of the Tamer. These other filmmakers Korean tours are very misogynistic. Of being one of them with old boy and all that Shit but I I have a lot of admiration and respect for he's not necessarily my favorite Korean filmmaker. But I think he tries to strike a balance in his movies and he casts really good people like just quick. Think he did have another underage teenage girl having sex with an older man in his two thousand film mother. So this is like this is the thing that comes up and I just wish. He wouldn't fetish. Is that too much? Yeah. Yeah. He had to. He has two short films that are really excellent once called influenza and its again that's like another class commentary of society and shaking Tokyo with part of an omnibus is a really really good short film that's set in Japan and it's got pizza boxes with this he gordy character, which is really interesting. So I would recommend those two short films by go. Yeah. We'll check this out. Yeah. Check them out. One thing that I thought was kind of funny that I didn't notice that I thought it was funny that the only like heralded rich person above criticism in this movie, the architect and architect. Here which I just like. Okay. You know. Yeah. But he does have a tate like a smudge of you know because he built these he built this home with this bunker that was made for rich people to survive if there was an attack from. North. Korea more to escape creditors like debt collectors and what it means was a haven that he created for the elite class to get away. And he never told the parks about it because he was ashamed of it, and this is what the housekeeper mentioned. Right I thought that was fascinating. Yeah I it's. That that that character was saying and it does seem like his father was He was a graphic and industrial designers that means like it might that might be him discussing his father a little bit who knows and then the last thing. I. Wanted to bring up just because it's like a very. It also connects to something that's going on a lot in states right now is kind of the the Wi Fi motif I guess you could call it, but it's just reference. It's the first time I've seen Wi fi access treated seriously and terms. Of It being a real problem if you don't have access to Wifi were it seems like it. I mean, I've just heard that problems dismissed so many times if like you don't need a computer like you know that's a privilege not a but at this point, that is absolutely not true there I mean right now where are so many students that are attending school digitally, there is a whole story the day we recorded this about students having like sitting outside of Taco bells to have access to Wi fi in order to Wifi goes to school. Didn't have a quiet room so that they can have classes live digitally to study. WIFI access even the strength of your Wifi. Not only the laptops and tablets, but the strength, and then this other undergird of like, where does all this e-waste go? You Know Lake US having Wifi who does that hurt it? What country sure all of that is is actually Topi, Miller is a really good scholar. You guys can look into if you want to learn more about eighty waste and global inequality cool isn't thanks for that. Well does parasite pass the Bechtel Test That's the real question. That's the most important questions class commentary who cares but dactyl does. It does. It does just barely There are some discussions where it's I. Mean we can pick it apart all day. I don't think it's super relevant to this specific movie even. There are some conversations between women were a man as an explicitly mentioned, but he is kind of like the underlying theme either way. Yup It passes. and. Even. But like you know it's like when it comes to that sex scene when he's like fingering her nipple and she's like Oh clockwise I'm like honestly a guy fingering does nothing for me. I. Understand I understand sexualities complex, but come on Mrs. Park. Like really you know like you want him down in between your legs. In your Bush, like his face in your Bush like don't lie, stop lying to clockwise counter it. Never been a directional nipple issue That was never the problem it was just like stop it. You know just Like. Like yeah. Yeah. Yeah. With that was barely passes. Like Bush doesn't know female sexuality Edano right I mean. And it would pass more handily if he had given more significance to the mother daughter relationship in the Kim family. Yes or in the park family which he really doesn't and whether or not. This is a deliberate decision made or whether he's just kind of not equipped as a writer to be able to write those relationships. Yeah. It would have been nice to see a little more between especially in the Kim family. Yeah. But like with all the women, they were all about like their men you know the housekeeper everything was about lake. You know taking care of that husband in the basement with the Mrs Parker it was all about taking care of her quote unquote six son. And her and her husband not her daughter right her daughter and with Mrs Kim Jong It was again it was about like key was plan. Right. So yeah I in that sense it's somewhat problematic but yeah, just barely passes. Yeah. Sure. Well, that brings us to our our nipple scaled the Bechtel Nipple scale which is speaking of clockwise. Clockwise. Today Lockwood Clockwise Nipple yes. In, which we rate the movie on a scale of zero to five nipples just examining it from an intersectional Feminist Lens. I don't know what to do with this money really because again, there wasn't much of a conversation to be had necessarily specific to gender I mean obviously, the class component is the far bigger conversation surrounding this movie So I guess I would. I would give it like a thirty three year three and a half again I think different female characters could have had more agency or could have been given more focus I think that the the relationship between you and the young daughter was wide is it they're not really sure what the function of that is or there's like there was another way to make that point that was e right? Yeah. Yeah. So I guess I'll give it as much as I love this movie and as much as like looking at it from a screenwriting point of view I'm just like loss chef's kiss. And I think it is an effective class commentary that explores a lot of really interesting themes in a way that we haven't necessarily seen explored in that way before of a lot of class commentary movies So I appreciated that but. I guess from a more gender perspective I'm like it's could do better. So three Nipples three clockwise nipples. Give one to each of the little dogs whose ends I. Forget I think one was like food one. I don't remember them was definitely a barrier. So each dog. Goodness. Nipple. Yup. I'll go for a three as well. Again, it's like in terms of how much I enjoy and appreciate this movie. It's a million nipples in terms of class commentary it's a million nipples. But yeah, from it from a gender perspective I'll go three and I also think on top of what we're talking about in terms of the predatory relationship and how the parks daughter is kind of. sidelined, and ignored and mistreated in a way that you see. But isn't really. In any meaningful way when there is space for that and just as much as there was space for a relationship between the Kim women like there there was space for that. That would have uplifted the rest of the movie and I also Well, I don't know maybe this is like but I I was thinking a little bit I I I feel like. It is so devastating to lose Qizheng at the end of this movie yet. Yes John was great. Yeah. But I think that that impact would have hit even harder if we had had more time with her and if we had gotten to know her more outside of her relationship with her father and her brother, which is what we see more of them we don't I mean. But again, it's like that we we do know things about her. We know that she is very talented. We know that she's really smart. Queer icon now. She she. Gay. Men Love. Her. She's she's fucking awesome but I do I think that if we had had more time with her especially her and her mother. Yeah I. Don't I don't know I understand why you know a rich had to die a poor had to die in the ending completely works and make sense but. I was sorry to see her go to Yeah. Of the of the four as well. It's like she had I know she was just awesome yeah yeah. So I'll I'll go with three, four, a parasite and let's see. I. Guess I will give to to ki-jong. Rust in power and I will give one to the housekeeper who didn't do anything wrong. I felt so bad for her. She's off and that actresses. Amazing. She's. yeah I I would give it a to five. In terms of gender because again, like I saw like a lot of the focus was you know the women's focus was on men oftentimes. More. So than anything else and Yeah I, I think still can do a little bit more when it comes to. Exhibiting gender equality or giving women a little bit more substance in in his screen place. Yeah. His first film barking dogs never bite with like she has a very interesting role like she's very much a strong role in there and I would like to see him kind of go back to more of that. Yeah. Cool off to check that one out too. Well grace so much for being here. This was incredible for having me. I. Hope. Korean pronunciations did not. Ruin you. Stop that like that could so much burden on us. We're just like we kind of don't care. It's like you guys care more than we do an good to noting that on us as like it can get annoying. Sometimes it's like within this frame too much of that is like you could just start with it and then stop saying it for the rest of the thing you know what I mean. I don't have to apologize every single time you know as like it's fine. It's like I said, it's no big deal. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you for saying that. That's a good learning moment for us and I'm sure some of our listeners will find that helpful as well. And thank you so much for joining us for being here Where can people check out your stuff check out your writing, follow you online. Yeah So my handle is h J. IT'S A S C H J y you could find that on instagram twitter. TIKTOK, it's also my website. Yeah and you know I post show updates there. Sometimes. I. Do Videos via please follow me I would really appreciate it. Awesome you. This is really fun. Thank you. Come back anytime. I would love to come back. Thanks. Of course, we'll have you back soon. Yeah and you can follow us on social media at Bechtel cast. You can subscribe to our Patriot Aka matriarch its patron dot com slash Bechtel Cast Yep and it gets you to bonus episodes every month plus access to the entire back catalogue just like whereas like seventy eighty episodes at this place some seventy s yeah. This show has been on for seventy five. Millions. Still, going strong. Still. So many movies left to cover. Yeah and then our T. public store where you can all of our merch t public dot com slash the Bechtel cast just had to end on a little bit of capitalism for you at the end of our parasite ups ever like also I armored. Buyer stuff give us money subscribe to our Patriae on. But yeah, I mean do what you can to help out your fellow human being. That's what will end on. This is Danny Shapiro host family secrets. Welcome to our fourth season family secrets. It seems just about every family has them. Some secrets are of small and insignificant, and some are shocking and massive. When they come out our new knowledge has the power to change our lives join me an hour millions of listeners as we dive deep into the story of this new seasons. Amazing guests. Listen and subscribe on the iheartradio APP wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts. Welcome to teach me something new podcast from iheartradio. In Britain, Co on your host Brett Martin. I'm an entrepreneur CEO a mom and I'm curious about a lot of things we've already learned so much together and I can't wait for what's next my co host and best he and I are back with brand new episodes. Every Wednesday listen to teach me something new on the iheartradio APP apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcast.

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