Episode 243: Veep, Veep?


Macmillan audio presents the defender in chief audiobook from celebrated constitutional scholar. John. U. S getting a liberal and they'll tell you that donald trump is a threat to the US Constitution. You argues that this charge has things exactly backwards. He convinced makes the case that our founding fathers would have seen. Trump is returning to their vision of presidential power, even at his most controversial and that he is, in fact, the constitution's greatest protector Victor Davis Hanson calls this provocative audiobook engaging completely original and superbly research and argued analysis from one of America's top legal minds preorder defender in chief by John You wherever audio books are sold. Trump goes full veep and another jaw-dropping axios HBO interview. Plus Biden puts off his veep pick will discuss all this more on this week's edition of the editors. I'm rich lowry joys by the right honorable. Charles CW COOK and the age of Authenticity Woods Jim Garrity Michael Brennan your turn. Soon, you're listening to a national review podcast sponsors this week our defender in chief the audio book by John You and the American story the podcast from the Claremont Institute more about both of them in due course if you listen to this podcast on national review, DOT COM Clinton directly on the corner. Have you. It'd be easier for you better for us if you made as part of your feed and Industry Minister says out there spotify to itunes and like what you hear here. Please consider giving us a glowing five star review on itunes. If you don't like what you hear here, please forget. Said anything. So Jim Speaking of not liking what you hear or see this. Trump. The latest Jonathan Swan axios scenery. This reminds me a little bit of Sarah Palin when de Marrone Katie couric was doing these these Sarah Palin and they aired one like every night felt like for five days running and every single one was terrible like when this one is this GonNa end I, saw the the latest Swan interview pop up on twitter didn't do that didn't have a train wreck of a swan interview, but there's a new one. For some reason where the president was absurdly litigating of the coronavirus numbers among other things what you make. A tip. Typically, bad for the president arguably worse and maybe the more excruciatingly frustrating performances he's turned him. In part because Some of them were utterly ridiculous softballs that any politician could have gotten. You know John. Lewis. Is Lying date anything you'd like to say about. And you know nine, hundred, ninety, nine, thousand, nine, hundred, ninety, nine out of a million politicians would say I'm so sorry to hear about the passing of John Lewis. During the civil rights era and he will never be forgotten the bit typical boilerplate even if he didn't agree with them, we're just George W Bush this very moving eulogy it and Louis refused to attend job George W Bush's inaugurations Lewis refused to attend trump's action that appears to be the only thing that Donald Trump remembers about John Lewis finally on the third time after John John Swan kept saying well, how about his life story? Is there anything you'd like to say about that? Trump gradually made this very he had a lot of heart for the civil rights movement or civilians. It was the most it was like pulling teeth rattle that that was really infuriating. But it turns to the corona virus. In. Cases. There's been this believing that you already have the president's personal reality distortion field work doesn't like to get He doesn't like to hear bad news. He tends to shoot the Messenger. He tends to be in denial etcetera etcetera. But now I think fair to wonder whether the people around him have just gotten into the habit of just telling him bad news when it happens yes you can point out the United States has a good rate. When it comes to you get the coronavirus in the United States. You have a very good survival rate. We have very good doctors get very bitter treatment programs. We have Bergen offals your chances are pretty good. As, sheer percentage of the population, we don't have very good numbers. In fact, we're ranked tenth, and if you look at world dominators, you know some countries that have very very tiny populations where they had an outbreak are ahead of us in this kind of a reflection of you know if you've got a tiny population, one mundane outbreak is GonNa have a larger percentage of your total. Than was. So if you see N. Dora and San Marino near the top okay. It's not necessarily those countries are being hardest hit. It means get very tiny populations Swan tries to lay this out and trump left stammering you can't do that and eventually he's showing these charts that are very basic very straightforward and swan is left you know frowning and grumble and and of just befuddled. But if I look, I laid out the corner of the other debt, you can make arguments why the United States has been hit very hard by this. Obviously you know we've talked great deal about decisions of governor. Cuomo up in New York Phil Murphy a New Jersey de Blasios. There's plenty of blame to go around. Hanging point out the United States has never didn't really have an experience with SARS the first time around. We have a population that is not used to wearing masks whereas all over Asia a whole bunch of countries are, and also it's kind of fair to wonder look. You can quibble about the United States total numbers for deaths, cases, infection rates, etcetera. You can argue here and there this might be over counted this. Mike. But these are generally we're in the ballpark on this. Nobody isn't a good. Reasonably the numbers come out of China nobody has any reason to think Russia is is measuring inaccurately. Indonesia. You'll get the world's most highly populated countries. Most of them are either Third World or authoritarian or both. So there's really good reason to think we don't really know how bad those countries are getting hit. There is anecdotal evidence those countries are getting hit very very badly. Tranquil laid out any of this stuff but you could just kind of telling went into this kind of knee jerk reflexive denial. Your. You Know Eddie was a deeply frustrating point because communicating is part of the job of the presidency. And the only the only credit to trump for doing is that he did do the interview with Jonathan. Swan did go great. He did do the interview with Chris Wallace. Didn't go great. Joe Biden is not really doing these sorts of interviews. In fact, needed a fairly mundane interview somebody from CBS News this morning, and that went almost as badly as trump's did with Jonathan Swan. Charlie the the trump interview is another one of those moments you've talked about this ally, where is Kinda imagine how you could be president and just do it so much better. It's not that hard you know. Talking about the coronavirus viruses. No doubt. You know this second outbreak the White House didn't expect trump didn't expect it He's talking about embers. That's what he said. You know thing we're going to have after the first bike, but you just say you know how hard it say look where big diverse country this is a tough virus to eradicate it. It's sad in places that. Aren't hit hard The first time around death numbers don't look as bad as they were in the northeast. We're really grateful for that, but it's You know every death is tragedy and I feel for for every single family. That's that's gone through this. It's it's like it's so easy but he just he can't do it because he has this impenetrable. A self regard and. defensiveness that makes it impossible for him to say obvious things. I think the. Big. Problem is the self regard. We've we've all been in situations in which it is important that we convey something. That either is not going to be popular. All the will upset somebody. Or. In a circumstance. In which we will be on the defensive. Rises I imagine we. Think about this quite a lot. How do I say this without being willfully misrepresented? How do I say this without people who don't like me jumping all over it and pretending I'm taking a position the time? Not How do I simultaneously Tena? Sleek knowledge that my? Opponent's well, critics have a point. While contending that they are wrong. Or? reconnects July. My argument. Trump doesn't do it. There's nothing wrong with him being defensive. Important for politicians to be. Defensive and Republican politicians have more reason. To be defensive. Than Democratic politicians especially in interviews. On television, it's not a criticism of Jonathan Swan I like. But as a general rule. Republicans are given a harder time. And trump doesn't do it. He caught he calm get past. His self regard. And so he ends up. Looking extremely silly. Now part of the problem here is that he is extremely silly and we've talked before about twitter. Twitter, does not turn Donald Trump into a capricious fool. It shows us that he is one. That may have been more capricious fools in the world than we were aware of the full twitter. That probably were. But twitter is It's a mirror. It's a looking glass. It's not. It's not a distortion field. And what you saw on television was. The president of the United States. That's who he is. But as you say, it's just so it's so odd. Trump. Is Not entirely? Wrong when he says that right from the beginning, some people have been out to get him. He's not entirely wrong when he says that. There's a great deal of hyperbole around his presidency. He's not entirely wrong when he laments the mania and it was a mania that started, it seemed the second he won election. Especially on the question of Russia. But any. Normal. person. Anyone with US grasp of reality. And a desire? For self preservation and if not for self-preservation, desire for the preservation of the movement that he leads and that he at least pretends he believes is important. Anyone in that position would try to do better. Eight. The questions they would do the research they would try to work out. The criticisms would be coming their way. And there's just no. Sign. That that he does it. Either on television in public or or from. You here in private, he is prepared those papers ready. It's just. that. This is the method used throughout his career on any do a hostile interview about his business whatever in each of a piece of paper at them see there's there's this this other fact that you're not committed. Real That's not a real preparation. Is it I mean? Of course but this this is he he did he did think about it and his Trumpian way I suppose so but he didn't. Why did he didn't think about it hard enough or just dislike the he is just untethered from reality I mean I've. I've said over and over on this forecast I, think that most of the politicians in the United States are doing the best they can. I think the vast majority of the criticisms that have been leveled or unfair I apply that to. Cuomo dissenters and Gavin Newsom and Greg Abbott and Donald Trump. But when you make that case, you have to concede reality. There are a lot of dead bodies. It is the case that we are at the moment worse soften Britain France Oh. Germany. And any thoughtful? Effective responsible. Argument. Would would acknowledge that and. Then present the counter argument now I mean I'm presenting this argument because I believe it trump doesn't even to have to believe it he he's sort of duty bound to say no no, no, he's. He's the best case for me Donald Trump. And he didn't bother I mean yeah. He thought I need to. Print out some pieces of paper but he didn't think to do it properly, and that is said real abdication of responsibility to everyone. You want a proper preparation now. Charlie. This house higher. Standard Gotten I. Think it Jim. It's really just the viruses exposed how? Trump's method which has worked for him. You know in politics to to this point in his business and entertainment. Career of you know coming up with nicknames to belittle someone or something at is his own reality that just Kinda Ben's everyone to to having to acknowledge you know it gets on the Forbes list by Hook or Crook, and you know he he's a billionaire now and A billionaire why should have a TV show about being a billionaire and while he knows about being a billionaire because TV show about being a billionaire and he created at least for his own purposes kind of virtuous cycle, which you just can't do with a lot of other things but especially with virus. Yeah I mean look. Look at you know typical presidency. The vast majority of the problems you're dealing with are those of human beings Even economics which might feel like it's you know these these large impersonal forces but president talks about how terrific the economy is. There's always the possibility that people will believe the economy is terrific and they will start to spend money because they believe the economy is terrific because they believe that their. Economic prospects are better jobs or become a long day stock market's doing better, etc. it can kind of create turn into the self fulfilling prophecy. The vast majority of politics in the modern era are for four partisan combat. You know our ideas of the right ones, their ideas, the rug ones pass our plan not there. But occasionally you come into something. Like a hurricane. Hurricane does not care the current. He does not care whether you know whether you insulted or whether you're braver whether you're cowardly hurricanes going to do whatever it wants to do. The virus is GonNa do whatever the hell it wants to do. You can't bully this virus you can't bluster this virus. You try to spin it and I think we've seen you know not just here but all around the world and certainly seen the Andrew Colo's of the world all try to spin how they've done. But in the end the people either catch the virus or they don't, and the people survive the virus or they don't at some point, you can't spend that and this is the circumstance that trump is any guide him for three and a half years early three years in change he looked like he was doing. Okay. Look at the economy was going to roar and he was going to be on a glide path to reelection even with all of his other personality issues even call other problems he was gonna they look Hey America we did make America great again things are better than they were years ago. Let's stay the course. Now again, say that the economy is headed you know four billion jobs coming back in a month is great but we had a bigger lost the Monday of the month before they say the economy is roaring and we're we're climbing back This virus is still there and I think what's deeply frustrated. You see floating around saying, well, we need another two weeks shutdown sweeping shutdown. Look people aren't GonNa do it people just aren't going do it? They just don't believe it. They've seen the protests all summer long they know that this is the restrictions on gatherings are being applied in a inconsistent and Ludicrous format. Clarification of earlier, one in Arlington if more than three people go out, they will be fined one hundred dollars each not merely a hundred dollars as a group and yet there are various other parts of the country where they're holding rapes they a big party on one of the bridges in Brooklyn. The Brooklyn Bridge last weekend police did nothing. People recognize that there is this ludicrously wiped parody and how people are treated They're not going to go for it anymore and without things like that, we are basically trying to you know social distance and mask and get along until the vaccine comes along probably not come until Maybe if we're lucky December probably more likely January, I know warp speed wants to get the which is the White House project wants to get it here as fast as humanly possible and you can tell this president desperately wants to be arriving before Election Day. I. Don't be the kind of the October surprise I. Don't know if that's going to happen and short ad it's up to see a scenario where this. country's in a good mood come election day or more accurately say election month. To Charlie Jim. At the outset mission this Biden interview with also didn't go great and it's just A. Credible, we are having a presidential election with a a debate about dementia tests and not even like a a highfalutin sophisticated debate about dementia test like a really idiotic debate about dementia tests among the two candidates between the two candidates among their supporters. This is the strangest election I can. Remember some of these. Obvious. Corona. Pandemic has cancelled all of the waypoints. have. No Real Conventions Voting is going to be performed by mail in Rallies. TV appearances to a minimum thankfully. But also because the two candidates. Incompetent And We probably investing more. In them. Then has been the case for a long time. Have Been Points in American history where most people didn't especially mind who want maybe there was a preference. But one, thousand, nine, hundred, sixty. Kennedy or Nixon? I doubt many people woke up the next morning started crying. Engaged in a primal scream in the quadrangle at Yale. One thousand, nine, hundred, eighty, six. Two thousand. have been a number of these elections where people don't mind. Where both the candidates were good. And now we have one where the right things. It's another flight ninety three election. If the Democrats get in the end of America, all of our founding of torn down. Whenever recover we'll get socialism. And the left thinks that if Donald Trump wins we're going to. Become, a fascist nation. Supreme. Court will be lost forever. Roby overturned miracle be unrecognizable. And that is leading many conservatives to say. All I want. This year is for Donald Trump to be president. Again. And many Democrats progressives to say. All I want is for Joe Biden to be president. And I know this in the abstract because I follow politics and then you watch on TV and you think really. Am aware that this is a divided nation I'm accuweather. People fill very strongly about policy issues because I do myself. and. So when I see people saying newspapers. On on twitter it's amazing. Donald. Trump has a forty three percent approval rating. It should be zero or I see conservative saying it's amazing that Joe Biden's winning forty nine percent of the vote should be zero I. think that's silly of course, because we're going to have to tendencies in American politics that going to be channeled through the parties, those parties are going to have lead but. I also do understand it. I mean Joe Biden. He He. Really. Kennel. Communicate. He can't he can't speak he can't argue. Trump is slightly different. He has his own. Flaws, but it's more consciously bizarre. I think Biden. Is Trying. And he just can't do and I am I'm really as a political observer. I'm really sympathetic to politicians in most circumstances because they work all day the campaign. For sixteen seventeen, eighteen hours straight moved from city to city and state to state so quickly. A, going to make mistakes are going to forget where they are. They going to stumble over their words. Going to forget minor details or mix up facts. That farrar over the fifty seven states thing was ridiculous. But really I've seen enough of Biden now. I if the problem with trump is that he's checklists in Oregon and narcissistic doesn't prepare the problem with Biden. Is. He doesn't know what he's. Standing for and he doesn't really know who he is. And so you have this fossils spectacle of. People, betting all their political chips stacking them up high like in a casino movie. On these two. doddering old UNIMPRESSIVE has been. Kim Gary Exit Question to you if Donald Trump. Pursued, his own basement strategy. And was little in evidence and just popped up to the occasional. Friendly. Interview, he would be winning this presidential race yes or no? I'm going to go with yes and if it's not, yes, it'd be a heck of a lot closer as Charlie was talking. I was reminded of this old quote from parcells NFL coach. We're used to say there are certain games you get into two evenly matched teams in the last team to make a mistake is going to lose the game. The the the the level of competition between the two teams was so close that it was going to come down to one play late and you didn't want to be that team made the mistake so far both Donald Trump and Joe Biden are you know pretty equivalent in terms of their inability to get interview without creating some giant Cocker Percy? What trump has done though is it trump's out there every day and Biden almost seems to get anybody's attention unless he's saying something like black or Chuck. So you're saying is that both Donald Trump and Joe Biden of the New York jets. Patriots Cowboy. It's We probably, always bedroom hi, I'm just getting out of my system now because this happens, it's going to be a terrible season for the jugular and I expect to be on the end of oil for weeks on. Gardner meant you is starting out right Oh, yeah. That's that's that's not why they're in trouble there. Of course, as I've written, Gardner mentioned will convince you. But. Would trump be winning well, I think I. Think if the. Corona virus pandemic hadn't come along. Yes. And throughout his presidency, he'd have been ten points more popular hidden basement. I think I think he con-, do that while. Tens of thousands of people are dying. Every month. So He. He's in a slightly different position than Biden Biden can be more passive. Would he had he hidden in his basement for most of his pre corona vars presidency have been in a stronger position once it hit. Yeah. Yeah, he would. Yeah I don't think it'd be winning You, know he's president during A. Crisis and he can't just high although this is a great example for for trump but Jimmy Carter actually did hide out for a while. When he was, he was really going down the tubes. There's just kind of mystery of where where he was why people weren't seeing him. So their limits, the president, how much president can go away and campaign from a basement. But obviously, if if on her less from trump, it would serve his interest. I should note by the way hopefully Sarah should he can remove most of the. Ambient noise just should explain that I. I'm in the Northeast we got hit by storms Internet was. Power and Internet. Out in my. Little town so. Longtime listeners might remember the rest Stop Charlie episode. It's almost that bad here I'm parked behind a strip mall where I could get service and I'm near a trash bin and. People. Have Been Chuck and things in there. So if you hear some scraping in banging, that's why that's that you put between the woods strip and mole had my heart going for a second. You're going to say Strip club and I never wanted to hear the rest stop Charlie thing again. This is the the glamorous life you leaders podcast host. Parked in a car behind a strip mall. All right. So let's hear from one of our sponsors this week, the American story, it's a free weekly short-form podcast that and presumably the host like does it from a proper studio to that reveal undermine listeners of the goodness of our country host Chris Flannery at Claremont, Astute Explores ideas, events and people that have shaped the American way of life and our understanding of what it is to be an American as the United States becomes increasingly disunited. The American story bring citizens together with stories of hope honor and dedication to the common cause of life liberty and the pursuit of happiness against the weekly podcast. It's free available on all the usual. Platforms just to give you an idea of what it's about here. Some of the. Titles and recent subjects. There's an episode called Simple Truth About George Washington the American dream about Mlk an ace you can keep about Kenny Rogers last hand about wild bill hickok shelley you have enjoyed that one number forty, two about Jackie Robinson and beautiful goodness about Abraham Lincoln you can find all these episodes at the American story PODCAST DOT Org. Again, that's the American story PODCAST DOT Org the American story from the Claremont Institute in Chris Flannery please check it out everyone. So, Charlie looks like we're not getting any conventions. You know what? One of my thoughts about why this race would would tighten or at least a about how the was looking I was I was thinking for longtime. Let's just see where it is. After the Republican convention you wouldn't shock me if trump tighten things up after convention, there's not going to be Republican. Convention to speak of a Democratic convention to speak of either Joe Biden we just heard today recording on Wednesday is not even GonNa Travel To Milwaukee or conventional supposed to be held. All of the way points as I said Gone. And there to of the, we just going to find ourselves the election, but there will be some. Politicking. It seems there will be debates. And? There will be an enormous number of television, ads. In a sense, the candidates are going to Juke it out in. A prerecorded fashion. I'm when those debates happen. And Television at Star I expect the race to tighten a bit. In fact, I expect there to be some talk of a narrow trump victory and I could even see that happening depending on the economy and. The, coronavirus numbers. because. Americans will remember. That old though. The two candidates. Fairly useless. We are talking here about more than just a figurehead. And more than just the. Person in charge of the executive branch important as that is. We're talking about policy and we're talking about the future of the country we're talking about. which bills will be signed and which will be vetoed, which judges will be picked, which executive orders will be. Chosen which congressional initiatives will be. Encouraged. and which will be. Strangled. So they won't be a convention bump most likely. But they're all going to be some bumps and dips. Nevertheless. Because Biden still has to choose his running mate, which will talk about in a bit. I'm sure. Trump. Unprepared and feckless he might be. Wants to win and he will. Roll out initiatives and endorsements and ideas. And promises. And we will. Have some sort. Of. Campaign season. The one thing that interests me is whether it is possible. To. Define Joe Biden in three months and perhaps. Whether it is possible to define Joe Biden a tool. and. One of the things the Obama campaign did back in two thousand twelve. So effectively, and in many ways dishonorably was to define Mitt Romney early. It. To great effect and it hobbled him for his entire. Run. Trump certainly has not done this to Biden Biden still seems to be an unknown quantity to most Americans and it raises the question of whether. Biden has a sudden teflon quality about him, and this is a guy who's been. In politics since the mid, seventies? He's a guy who was a stalwart in the senate. Who I ran for president in nineteen eighty eight. WHO WAS VICE PRESIDENT FOR EIGHT YEARS A fairly involved vice president fairly prominent vice president. Who is talked about in two thousand sixteen? Why I do not know who he is. Why does he not inspire strong opinions either way why can't Donald trump come up with a good nickname for him That that will be key. and. Whether events permit trump to run the sort of campaign that he wants to. will also be but yeah, there's GonNa be no focal points of the software accustomed to seeing where you see in the convention distillation of each candidate. Put on display for the public to judge. So Jim, we've talked at various times probably a podcast oh biden has to come out. Republicans say this this a lot when when they're positing how the right the race might change Biden eventually has to come out I. Think it's it's getting increasingly obvious. He's not going to have to come out and probably won't come out I mean he's not GonNa go campaigning There's no reason for him. You know he's ahead to step up his his interviews Kinda do anything different than he's doing now and a Charlie's point that trump has find a way to kind of fix them with a nickname or some some charge I think we're talking about this off offline pride of podcasts maybe last week I think he should go after Biden his week I mean going after senile. You're getting from that seems mean-spirited people are gonNA reach that conclusion not on their own weather say it. But finding this week, you can include you know some of the risks capacities under that rubric you can include importantly getting pushed to the last. Which is certainly happened and the the idea that he won't be fully in charge of his presidency or his party. If you win. So if are far trump by I'd start going after a week jail. Yeah before we go, any further I should credit at least the first person I saw making this point was our colleague, Ramesh Panera who observed, Hey, don't feel bad joe, Biden Democrats have a long and proud history of not going was Constan. I. Think we all knew the conventions were not going to be the way they normally were at the moment. It became clear this pandemic pretty serious. The Democrats had been planning I. Think they have a whole bunch of people almost like Like, Max headroom or something the idea all these screens of it like the NBA crowds. Behind their that yeah, they'd have lots of people appearing virtually and then you know basically having a Biden, give his speech to a crowd full of screens Arena full of screens and that's not going to happen. It's going to be in Delaware and I think this should be a big red flag. For people who want to see. Joe. Biden win because you have to figure the nominee of a party traveling from his home. To An arena or convention center in Milwaukee in circumstances entirely controlled by his team. That that should be pretty minimal risk of chronic ivars. It'd be wearing a Basque they can try to keep them six feet away. If they genuinely believe that Joe Biden going out making this trip would put him at. An unacceptable level of risk for the current ours. Where's he going to go? Will you ever go out and campaign anywhere in let's assume? Biden wins. How does he go about the duties of the presidency? Does he have an inauguration? Do they do it on? Like this little surprising that he's not gonNA leave. Delaware. This may very well be that Joe Biden doesn't go anywhere for the remainder of this campaign. I don't mean metaphorically eight you know literally. Stays in the state of Delaware. To be a really weird surreal and I think. Whatever else you think trump you know there around the same age trump has had other people have worked out other words about itself. Look you know can can Joe Biden be president in the era of the coronavirus? Give to keep them in a hermetically sealed environment of all time. It's going to be really kind of challenging to see this I. Feel a little sad about this news. It'd be basically we're not going to have conventions and you can argue as it was Jack Butler did in the corner of the other day that they've Kinda outlasted. There actually was talking about the presidential debates by the way I think now it's very like if Joe Biden's not going out for the convention I don't really see why he'd want to be in the same room as trump for the debates even tried to keep them six feet apart like they did in that last debate against Bernie Sanders This is very strange. It's been cleared. We weren't going to have a convention I'd been I think just about everyone's Republicans in Philadelphia in two thousand. For people were political junkies are terrific. You know it's like everybody in entire Party in the political world in one place yet you'll has got crazy protesters have a lot of cops, but it's Kinda like it's part of tradition. I think it's part of officially saying, okay the campaign is serious. The primaries are over let's begin. Each party gets you know three or four nights to say, Hey, this is who we are. This is what we stand for. Of course, it's always stage managed to to every detail, but that's the part of the part of the process and we're not going to get that this year and I don't know. If that will redound either party's advantage I do think it kind of. Trump loves the pageantry. He really wanted to have a convention. You want to go down to see Charlie Jacksonville obviously that could not come to pass i. don't I spit suspect if the Joe Biden's best chance of victory. Is for people to basically forget he exists beyond not trump. This is probably good for him The apparently trump wants to do his convention speech at the White House which in addition to causing people wonder about the appropriateness of that you know the president gives speeches, the White House, all the time I'm not really sure why that would be the. Location. They would choose for that. Events just aren't the same without crowds and we've probably already talked too much about baseball on this podcast but just watching baseball games, it's it's totally. Different and doing you know zoom meetings or We're doing at our events way everyone is virtually Almost impossible to tell a joke. If you if you can't see the reaction, feel the reaction of people and this is just another thing that's happened over the last six months that I think curse trump because if there's any politician in the last fifty years who's just fed off crowd, you know basically created by crowds and having a feel for what got the crowd going it's trump and that too has been taken away from him. So Charlie exit question to you how much will you miss? The conventions this year a lot some not at all. All I personally wouldn't miss them a tool but I. I regret the circumstances that led to the cancellation they've made the world narrow and peculiar. Almost at some, I realized why not everybody's into it I realize their Disneyland for Political Junkies and so I've always enjoyed task sally the good name of Disneyland with this. You see the thing Charlie at Disney's lost three billion dollars so far. Absolutely. The last thing they need is is Jim comparing them. Let's convention. So on this somewhere between a lot in psalm my enthusiasm for them falling off a little bit last time as first time I hadn't gone either. Conventions in twenty years or something or more, but they're they're great American events there as saying that their way to put your best foot forward make your argument as party, and that's really extremely important. Part of our our politics important things can happen at conventions to Jack, Butler's point and Jackson be delighted. Now, this three to Jack Butler references now three and five cast, but they're not saying, Steve Kornacki tweeted something the other day it was the anniversary of Reagan. Picking George. h.w Bush has his running mate. Rather. Than Gerald Ford which there's a lot of speculation about at the convention and you had a young reporter named Chris Wallace on the floor breaking the news that it wasn't going to be. Ford and that was going to be h w Bush and that was yeah, that's true drama so you don't get that at at conventions. Anymore but they there are still the still part of the warp in Wolf of American political life. So I'll on this. So with that, let's hear from our other sponsor this week defender in chief, the new audio book from Macmillan, audio by celebrated constitutional scholar, a friend and colleague John You ask any liberal and they'll tell you that donald trump is a threat to the US. Constitution you argues that this charge has things. Exactly backwards, he convincingly makes the case that our founding fathers would have seen trump as returning to their vision of presidential power, even at his most controversial and he is in fact, the constitution's greatest protector, Victor Davis Hanson causes, provocative audiobook, and engaging completely original and superbly research argued analysis from one of America's top legal minds pre-ordered fender and chief. By John You were ever fine audio books are sold John is always worth reading. Listening to a fearless and fertile Akassou tional. A mind and a constitutional scholar please check it out defender in. Chief. So Jam, we are in this delayed period. Of Biden's the pick which been put off another week we talked about it last week you were a Susan Rice guy if I'm not mistaken And it's the scuttle but I have no idea since I'm totally unsourced in this world is that it's down to Susan Rice and Kamala Harris what do you make? You say I'm a Susan Rice Guy. We should emphasize things. She's most likely. Not A fan. What it's worth Axios says it is down to Susan Rice and Kamala Harris I'll just pause a moment for all of our listeners to grown in in in trepidation dread. it'll interesting because most people say you know the vice, the vice presidency isn't worth a bucket of warm spit at all that they downplay the importance of the choices and yet most years vice presidential choice doesn't have that much impact on the ultimate outcome of the race that haven't been said look this is unusual year Joe Biden as we've discussed is not the same guy that he was in two, thousand, twelve or two, thousand eight getting very long in the tooth, not looking all that. Sharpen. Let's face it. Most people think he won't be running for re election one way or another come to your twenty twenty four. So the question when you pay Joe, Biden's running mate. This is basically picking his most likely successor and someone who very well might end up having to take over God forbid, I hope John I hope Joe by one hundred but you look at the actuarial tables you look at the fact that we're dealing with a pandemic right now know you gotta recognize us. Well. Who Away this is sort of the Democrats having a second presidential primary except it's being done entirely behind the scenes and is complicated by the fact that Joe Biden has said I'm going to pick a woman, which is you know you can argue about the wisdom of that. I think that if you had somebody who you thought was super duper terrific. Let's say you thought Cory Booker was exactly the kind of guy you wanted to have as your running mate. I think you've really hammed yourself in by not allowing yourself the freedom to pick the person who you think is best. Right now it appears that Oh up obviously because of the events of the George Floyd protested Cetera, a great number of Democrats would love to see an African. American woman thought to be perfectly honest I. Think Most Democrats just one vote against Donald Trump I think they're going to be fine. You're not going to see anybody stay home because they didn't like the Vice Presidential Becker very very few people are going to do that I. Think Joe Biden really should be following that Richard Nixon advice pick the person to make the best president, pick the person who baked the best vice president, and thirdly pick the person who can help you win the race. You're up by a bunch if you if you couldn't pick person, you really wanted in a circumstance like this wind can you? But. That's where we are at this. And I it was interesting column by Josh Crash Our. Over at National Journal I believe their slogan is we've been mistaken for national review since nineteen, sixty, nine and. Is just like woody. He pointed out that Karen Bass was on the list. Karen Bass his head of the congressional black. Caucus. But I think safe to say not terribly well known outside of her home state of California. people will. Come from wave. demings. Party idea that basically any African American woman in in the Democratic Party with any degree of prestige at all. Basically had to get vetted. bottoms mayor in Atlanta was on the list and it's Kinda. You're you're down you're flailing now you're just kind of looking around for anybody. Yes. Maybe being dude doing due diligence you. WanNa make sure you're not overlooking some diamond in the rough but. Look, these are people who barely worked with. You know Joe Biden probably couldn't pick them out of out of a lineup and so the idea that. It just kind of seems like Joe, Biden must have ended this primary with some sense of who he wanted to pick and instead they're going for these relatively obscure figures and yet it's probably a circumstance. That's do no harm by the way. If you WANNA, do no harm than Karen Bass talking about how terrific Fidel Castro was. Paying tributes to the church scientology and all the other attributes to communist leaders probably, not GONNA do your. Arm there it's very strange I kind of think deep down this the get closer and closer to decision time I. Think the Biden campaign internally probably is very divided and is really sure who they think is the choice who can get them not just to November but probably help him be a very effective president wants if when he takes over in January. Charles. I think that Biden delayed it tells you a great deal of how he sees his rights. He reminds me the moment of. Myself, when I've tinkered with something to try to make it work. And succeeded, but I'm not quite sure why The most frustrating position to be in your trying to fix a TV and. Change something and it works but you don't know what it was. And so you don't want to touch it anymore. You. Don't want to do anything that might put you back to square one. Biden. Has. Thus. Far coasted along into pole position. By not being Bernie Sanders. And by NOT BEING DONALD TRUMP. And by not having had to. Do, any campaigning, a tool. And by not having had to answer questions. And by not having been president or vice president or a senator or anything. At all during a pandemic. And he must be worried. That he's going to remove a screw or change it diode and it's all going to wrong. There are two potential. Pitfalls here for him. The first is that he chooses somebody in the country has did not that person. Oh. That the choice galvanized Republicans. Ask someone like. Color Harris or Susan Rice could. Or? Invites widespread condemnation. Because he chooses somebody who is clearly unqualified. To fill his shoes. Seventy eight year old man shoes. The second reason we must be little worried is that. Most of the people he's Looking at who are not Carmela Harris may well have some skeletons in that closet it it. Wouldn't be. Tough to imagine. A scandal. At, which point the press, which is board. Would probably jump all over him. If I were Biden delaying. To. Determine whether for example, Karen Bassey's praised Castro and scientology's where it ends. So. He is winning without having done anything apparently unable to do anything much without endangering his health including visiting Wisconsin. Hiding in his basement. Hoping. that he doesn't screw it up. And he's right to. It really can only get worse for Joe Biden. I think. I. Don't see how it can get better. I think the racist destined to tighten. I think the mall the politics returns to the four. The better chance trump has. and. So. You, have this all stasis. That is that is just as obvious around the VP, pick a surround. Anything else. And it is exacerbated by his having deliberately and I think somewhat strangely narrow down. The potential. List of choices by the immutable characteristics of. Of the finalists? I WANNA. Be Joe Biden right now making this decision because I think it can really only hope. So, Jim Geraghty x the question. Gee, you assuming. The two finals really are Susan Rice. In Kamla Harris, which of them would best serve Joe Biden's political interests. On the campaign trail or as president. Winning in November. actually I think Susan Rice for Oliver flaws probably does less harm. I think they both galvanized conservatives I think at least Susan Rice you have the they've worked together they get along. Let's go with the Obama Restoration vibe. I think I think this come hires I keep saying is a perfect candidate on paper. Then you saw how she ran and it went so badly any she left a lot of Democrats, not liking her entrusting her you can put Chris Dodd on that list and I think that. Everyone would recognize. This was a his ticket was a metaphorical marriage of convenience that neither one particularly was fond warm towards the other. It would be a ominous signed for the prospects of a presidency. Try Cook. Rice your Harris better for Biden's purposes. I think rice is better she. Still galvanizes conservatives because she was linked to Benghazi and also to the Russia conspiracy. But there is something about Kamala. Harris? that. Worries Conservatives, mole. And she quite literally laughed at Biden when he mentioned the constitution. During a debate. She's probably the most authoritarian not. Authoritarian or would be authoritarian but actually authoritarian. Thinker. In modern democratic politics and she has a condescending as she trotted out, they offer day during the Cavanaugh fiasco. Susan Rice has issues. She's bland and at least between now and November would do less damage. I GonNa say harasses is best choice a I don't like her at all funder really creating in completely. In authentic. Shield I mean, this is true. One, who ascended to a level? where he can be someone's Veep some of these folks haven't released very high like Karen Bass but she's going to be you know from day one, it's going to be how do I take over from Biden position myself. To do that, but all that said, you know she's she's a senator she's former presidential candidate and I I just I think picking a inform policy hand who's never run for office is against the the. Biden brand of safe and conventional Al Fire Him. I would done the most crashing Lee boring conventional part in picked Amy Klobuchar, but she actually has an environment context. Democratic politics is risk yourself because she? The. The woke life would have been inflamed. By such picks. So sure that I were I'd say it but I'll go Kamla Harrison there's something today that said you know advantage of rice would really activate Barack Obama and Michelle Obama Campaign for Joe Biden can't believe really the. Campaign for for Joe Biden. Hairy So. Real, quick, and plus plug. I'm not going to bore you with my usual. Pitch just sign up for our plus it's your way to be a deeper part of your community. Your way to support are important. Journalism is a hugely. Popular service. It's more than the subscription that sits basically Where all sorts of benefits besides seeing all our content for free without the metered and save for free actually they paint fourth but without the the paywall or adds a getting in your way. So please sign up for an are plus Let's hit a few other things before we go Jim Geraghty what else have been on your mind. As OUR LIGHT ITEM It's really ironically a lighter item. It's the opposite of the title. It's Brad thors latest thriller untitled near Dark. I am not quite finished with it yet, but I've always enjoyed rathore's thrillers. He's probably among the very best in the field right now near dark stands out because he is really willing to put his protagonist Scott Harp. kind of your typical Thriller Action Hero, former secret service now does counterterrorism stuff for the CIA. Really pushes into uncomfortable territory. You know the the character has been through some really rough times and it hits and he's got his new frailties, new faults and I think it takes a great writer to make the audience interested in a character even when that character is doing things that are self destructive or that we just don't WanNa. See that character doing and Brad is very much among the best. This is a bold direction for this next latest book and saluted. Troy took. My light item is not going on twitter. I have not been on twitter for a week and I'm noticeably happier. And when I have clicked on, it tweet that somebody has emailed me texted me. I have realized how? If, you're not on twitter all the time it looks like. An incomprehensible madhouse you. Look back in in this some. Entirely inconsequential controversy that. You just don't understand people sitting there saying. No Horn rimmed glasses or not racist, and you think how did this even start and then you realize you just don't want to know. So, if you're on twitter and you find it depressing I would I would heartily recommend not going on for a while put you in a much much better mood. So next minds about twitter, we've talked about this I I, find it useful to know what people are saying in thinking but I blow hot on a cold on it as well and last night here in the northeast with power in the internet knocked out it's kind of Nice actually to have no other option but to just sit there and read a book. So but I, I wanted to talk a little bit about going into New York City for the first time in a while and just kinda thinking what are all the things that would not make sense if you had no idea what what had been going on the last five months ugly almost everyone in the mask is a big one about a quarter maybe of the business and foot traffic and traffic that you'd expect New York City that's another big one these restaurants which have encroached on the streets with outdoor. Seating another one but one one that really struck me is a police guard around the statue of Columbus at Columbus Circle would would be one that would really be scratching your your head over even like two months ago. But it. It apparently has has around the clock police presence there to protect. The statue. So that time Jim for editor's picks what your pick. So, we've had a lot of good strong competitors but I really enjoy Dan mclachlan's piece right as the right before the polls closed in the Kansas Republican Senate primary very straightforward title Chris. Quebec is an incompetent loser who loses at that's by Democrats want them. And I think it laid out two very important points. The first being that Crisco Bach is an incompetent loser who loses and the second. That's why Democrats want them I have great respect for all of my colleagues and sometimes the moment calls for somebody like Kevin Williamson that just you know. Tear apart a bad idea with all the subtlety of a barroom brawl at Kevin is terrific at that, and sometimes you want somebody like Dan McLaughlin who can go through the record he cites the facts on the data. Any illustrates the absurdity of an illogical course of action with the clarity of distinctiveness of Mr Spock from Star Trek good job. Dan Rate piece at thankfully CRISCO Bach did not win that primary. Chuck. I've been enjoying some other pieces on. On you section capital Mattis. I'm God that we. Taking the time to defend free markets and Classical. Liberal. Economics. At a time when? Obviously out of fashion on the left but somewhat out of fashion on the right and not just in the Josh Holy. Wing of the party but also in some of the think tanks as well. AMERICAN COMPASS COMES TO MIND I'm pleased that we're firing back. So I loved Kevin, Williamson's space in the new issue is going to be the cover on Karl Marx. Kevin Lot marks meditated on why he continues to have appeal on the left including the formal leaders of black lives matter and of course, it's it's eloquent insightful and brilliant as just about everything. Kevin Rights is so that's it for us. You've been listening to a national review podcast, any rebroadcast re transmission or account of this game without the express written permission of Nasiriyah magazine strick pro hibbitt. This podcast has been produced by the incomparable Sarah Stephen makes us sound better than we deserve Charlie thank you, Jim thanks to defend her and Chafe, the new audio book by John You and to the American story the podcast from Claremont Institute, and thanks especially to all of you for listening. We're the editors we'll see you next.

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