Chaos is a ladder.


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I like it a by the way in a bit of written stuff with super conversation, by the way, John always does that to me like five away. Did you know ZipRecruiter's the best way to find a candidate that no one ever offers a statistic, by the way, they don't friends of the pod can try it for free. It's ZipRecruiter dot com slash crooked. Welcome to save America. I'm John Fabra. I'm John love it. Tommy, Tommy leader in the pod Tommy's interview with Nobel peace prize nominee. Amanda went who's behind a new effort to train young people to build social movements. Got a lot of news to talk about I from the resignation of Donald Trump's secretary of homeland security in the Republican strategy to court Jewish voters to Nancy Pelosi strategy for keeping the house and the ever expanding. Twenty twenty field quick programming note will be out on the road again this week. So our Thursday night show in Boston will be released as a pot on Friday in our Sunday night show in Hampshire. It will be released as next Monday's pod. Also, a reminder that we dropped a bonus episode right before the weekend started Tommy talked with Hulan Castro about his presidential campaign on Friday right here in Los Angeles. And that entire interview is available. Now, you can also watch it at YouTube dot com slash cooking media. Wow. Smashed that subscribe button. You can you can see it to you can listen to Tommy watch Tommy radio on TV. It's great. All right. Let's get to the news during a meeting at the White House Sunday evening. Donald Trump asked for and then accepted the resignation of homeland security secretary Kirstin. Nielsen is the great Dera Lind wrote over at vox Nielsen is arguably been the most aggressive secretary in the department short history and cracking down on immigration with her legacy likely to defined by zero tolerance prosecution policy of late spring and early summer twenty eighteen that resulted in the separation of thousands of families at the US Mexico border. None of it appears to have been enough for Donald Trump so Nielsen's resignation came shortly after Trump decided to withdraw his nominee to run is because Stephen Miller and others wanted to go in a quote tougher direction replacing Nielsen on an acting basis will be Kevin Macalinsan who currently runs customs and border protection. Trump's cabinet is now operating without permanent secretaries in charge of homeland security interior and defense and enacting chief of staff and acting high into the funniest one because Trump could make. Any permanent staff today? He just doesn't do it because he wants them to feel small. That's right. There's no I was actually wondering about that. Because it's the only one where it because he doesn't need to actually get confirmation. Just do it. Are there any I wonder if there are legal implications because he also is running. He has Mulvaney running three quarters of government at any given moment. I mean, you don't have a lot of choice these days in the Trump weight has your if you're looking for staffers. There's not that many people there this tumbleweeds in the hallway Jared, I mean it really. Stephen Miller, a bunch of random people who they just found, and you know, Steve batons anti-chinese containers so lying around couple Pepe memes. So guys, what do we know about? Why Trump fired Nielsen and what he's looking for in his next homeland security secretary, the reports are that she wasn't mean enough John the woman who oversaw the family separation policy that ripped kids away from their parents and separate them for months at a time doing permanent damage to these children was not mean enough for Donald Trump. According to background quotes in everything you read, and it also seems like in recent weeks, Donald Trump has said NBC's first reported this that he wants to reinstate the family separation policy. And she resisted that now it's not really up to Donald Trump to reinstate it or to resist it the reason ended is because one he signed an executive order ending it and to the court stepped in and said, he couldn't do it. Right. So it does seem like I mean, you know, we always focus on personalities, and we can talk about Nielsen all we want. But this is more of Donald Trump is facing an intractable policy. Problem that he cannot fix in the legal problem that he kind of getting rid of her saints shut the border saying reinstate family separation. It's it's what he's frustrated with is that his cabinet secretaries aren't magical. They're not magical cruelty beasts who can like us cruelty to implement his vision. I mean, Dan treated about this over the weekend. But there is a tweet that by one Donald J Trump that captures his attitude about immigration, which is I'm doing such a good job at the border, everything at the border is really good also is a total catastrophe. It's an emergency. They're coming droves. And we need to shut the border. And so he's trapped in this place where it's a signature issue. He's been president for he'll you know, he's running for re election. This is the singer of his presidency. It's not a success, right? He's the cruelty is not rebounded to policy benefits that he was hoping would happen. And it's clear he doesn't know what to do. So he's firing people. He's yelling. He's calling for crazy things. He's trying to he likes the attention on the issue. But he's clearly angry about about. What's been happening? And I don't think he has an answer. Yeah. I mean, I think this is the I alone can fix it presidency. Yeah. The coming to fruition here. Right. Like, you Trump promise that he could fix everything he thinks he can fix everything he thinks he can just fire people and get his way all the time. And he has never realised never learned that to solve a problem as complicated as immigration, and look there is an influx of asylum-seekers at the border right now, and you know, any president whether it's an Donald Trump policies helped fuel that influx of asylum-seekers, but any president democrat or Republican would be dealing with a lot of asylum-seekers right now and have to figure out what do I do about that most presidents would learn that you have to work within the bureaucracy you have to work with congress. Maybe you need some support from the other party. Maybe you know, like lawyers telling you, what's the most lethal, you know, the Dick's that. It's complicated. It's hard and that there are reasons to not be so straightened because even if you. You have a view about how the immigration system could work. It's gonna take time to get there. They're just complications the governing. He's never shown any interest in on top of being a racist. Who's pursuing nativist nationalist revanchist policies in order to write up his base. It's also clear that he just doesn't. He doesn't understand immigration policy in fundamentally anyway, shape or form despite it being the thing that he focuses on the most like he referred to the floor as court settlement, which bars the federal government from detaining minors for more than twenty days in blamed it on judge Flora's, whoever you may be and quotes knows a a little girl with the last name floor that led to this agreement and believe in the eighties years ago. Ninety seven he doesn't seem to understand or at least he doesn't care that building a wall doesn't stop people from seeking asylum. And in fact, so like what do we do about? We're stuck in this place where he says does the same things over and over again in immigration policy, and he just gets increasing. Early craven sounding talking about doing away with asylum entirely talking about closing down the border to Mexico talking about eliminating all aid for Latin America or Central American countries. And the press covers it because it's crazy new in like completely counterproductive. But I don't know what else to do. We're stuck in this cycle. And it is alarming because it seems like even since the mid terms he he has sort of attacked the rule of law even more than he has he's as we've all have you said many times love it. He's the raptor testing the fence here. And what he's looking for is another homeland security secretary and other personnel who will help him essentially break the law because he's now he also said the other day what we need to do is get rid of the judges. It's just it's a third -tarian riffing. Like, he hasn't very deeply has no discipline. Right. There's no plan here. I mean, it is. I think part of the reason why it's important to the media does cover what he says about immigration is. It's actually one of the few places where he's followed through on some of his more outlandish promises right zero tolerance policy resulting family separation that began as this kind of frenetic off the cuff riffing, and then all of a sudden it's policy, you know, usually he's heading to step back from those the courts, including this one. I don't blame them for covering when covering him. He says all these outlandish things, but it does reinforce this notion that there is a massive like unprecedented crisis at the border, which is simply isn't true. There's a huge problem at the board. There's a there's a growing number of people coming up from Central America and seeking asylum and the the system is being stressed the point of breaking, but he's doing things to make that situation. Worse. Not better. I also think I think there is a legitimately humanitarian crisis at the board. Absolutely. Because you know, I think we've had triple the ne. Number of Silom seekers this month that we had last month and they've been metering them. So they're not hearing their cases. So they're all stuck in camps in Mexico. Well, that's it. So it's a humanitarian crisis. It is not a national security crisis. Which is how the administration is talking about it. These are not people who are criminals these people who are coming to our to our country and causing crime. These are mostly women and children and families who are seeking asylum, and what has happened is there is this huge backlog of cases, right now while they're seeking asylum about whether their asylum application will be processed. We don't have enough judges. There's a backlog of cases and Trump. This whole time is focusing on fucking building a wall, which will do nothing about this. He has some some of like he has only repaired some miles of fencing since coming office. He is built zero miles of new fencing. This is the thing. That's so strange. Right. I imagine. I mean, this is partly why he sort of raging about this is that he's trapped here because on the one hand, he does I think correctly, see, this is one of the few things he can successfully talk about with his base and on the other hand, he's not he's not a candidate the president. Right. So he has a record here. So I think a lot of this venting at Nielsen venting. At the fact that these people weren't tough enough is looking for someone to be to be able to run against basically say like this is what has prevented me from actually implemented my vision. I think it comes back to I think it's it's worth looking at what Nielsen represents. Because I think it's important that she's leaving. And it's important that we're having this conversation about religiously because she is what happens when you try to like put a layer of seriousness, a layer of adulthood, like icing on this Trump cake of sort of bigotry and chaos and frenetic she's the icing. I think she's the I think icing is the wrong word. I. I mean that she's like she is pretty horrible. Of course, he's horrible. When I'm thinking, she tried to do what Trump wanted to do while looking like traditional serious cabinet secretary. I'd see I don't agree with that. She fucking went to the press briefing room in lied like crazy. That's not serious. That's just being being a polish looking liar. She's a polish she is a bit of Trumpism presenting to do. But presenting well is a very different thing in my opinion than like acting like an adult in the room and trying to calm his worst instincts, which she never ever did. Well, that's that's what they're claiming. Right. That's what they claim. They want to spend. I mean, we've had so many conversations about personnel in this White House. Right. And and I think what we've learned is some of these people resist him for time. Most don't some people resist him sometimes and then end up giving into him anyway, really the personalities in this administration. Whether it's a Gary was the fuck was his name. Whether it was a Gary Cohn or John Kelly or accused in Nielsen or Stephen Miller, like whether there with them all the time with them sometimes now, sometimes he gets his way in the end because he's bulldozing people left and right norms. He's trying to break the law. He's doing all the shit. That's the point. She thought she could come in. And be respectable. You know, be a be a serious Republican inside the Trump administration. It turns out that's impossible. You become you become the Representative of what requires lies in order to execute. And you leave tarnished by Trump and having succeeded in in in in having failed to do anything to mitigate his worst impulses. I think we have to worry about now is Macalinsan. A reportedly has said they when they're talking about bringing back family separation that he might present families with a binary option, which is either you can be separated from your children or you can all go into detention together indefinitely and they're gone pleading policy. Illegal her the Flora's agreement which says you cannot hold kids for the twenty days. So I guess we're reaching another breaking point. We'll we're going to have to decide maybe Republicans in the Senate will have to decide if we're going to just allow the Trump administration to brazenly break a lot maybe a court will jump in rice stop them from doing this. But we saw this with the Magnitsky sanctions about Jamal Shoghi. They were required under law to present their findings to congress, and they said, Nope, not gonna do it. And no one said anything, and again, we should remember that back when Republicans control the house and the Senate Donald Trump had a chance to pass some kind of immigration policy where he got more border security, maybe even some money for his wall, you know, out of money for a lot of money for his wall. Right. You know, health recipients and dreamers, and even you know, ended family migration power five times the amount of money for what he shut the government down over for border scared. Right. It was twenty five billion was on the table shut the government down over five billion. He turned down twenty five billion. Yeah. I mean from whether you're looking at it from the right or the left, his immigration policy has been a failure abject failure. I mean, you look at what's happening right now. Right. All of this. You step back all this asylum conversation shutting down the border that judges trying to blame trying to foment in front of fucking group of American Jews of the country's full saying these island seekers faking and saying it's all about trying to ferret out the share of asylum seekers who might not deserve asylum. That is the primary focus of the Donald Trump administration at the border finding the group of Silom kinda trying to let trying to convince everyone that that small group that doesn't everyone is everyone is everyone, of course, it's everyone. But even but even just the idea that like, even if you accept that a share of the asylum-seekers don't deserve Silom is not a crisis is not a national security crisis. It's not a national security threat. It's not worthy of an endless debate over and over and over again, it's not the most important issue is you facing the country. Not the most important issue at the board. Her. But it's going to be the issue in the fucking twenty twenty election because he's gonna make it the issue every day. So as you mentioned love it. We did hear some of the president's xenophobic rage over immigration during a speech to the Republican Jewish coalition in Las Vegas on Saturday where he said that our current asylum system is a quote scam and at families and children seeking asylum should turn back because the United States is full. First of all is the Republican Jewish coalition not an odd place declare that the United States will no longer provide refuge to groups of people fleeing by its. It wouldn't be it wouldn't be. But I think it was most chilling is the fact that him saying America's full that they're faking it works in front of this audience now, and it's like come on people. Shame on you. I mean, Trump telling a group of Jewish voters that America's full two to a room that included an audience with holocaust survivors in. It is one of the most historically ignorant insulting things you could ever imagine him saying to that audience. But he did I can't imagine the holocaust survivors in that audience hearing that especially with America's history of there's there, you know, there was a time when we turn back. We holocaust survivor tire boats full of individuals who later died in concentration camps MU we drastically restricted immigration, quotas and enforcement in in made it almost impossible immigration, the United States in the thirties and forties twenty thirties. So Trump also made an appeal to Jewish Republicans in his speech by saying that the Democrats are pushing an extreme antisemitic agenda, quote, an attacking Representative Ilan Omar just a few days after federal agents arrested a Trump supporter who threatened to quote put. A bullet in her head and to show the audience would good friend. He has to American Jews Trump referred to Benjamin Netanyahu as quote, your prime minister and said, the Democrats could quote leave Israel out there all by yourselves in response, the Anti-Defamation League and the American Jewish Committee. Both criticized the president's statement for quote feeding bigotry and quote leading people to believe that Jews aren't loyal Americans. Guys. Do you think all the Republicans in DC pundits who accused Illinois Myra feeding the dual loyalty trope or a busy writing their takes about Trump today, those op-eds or getting getting printed? It's so frustrating. You know, he is done. He some of the most, you know, he's he's bought into anti semitic tropes in front of Jewish audiences again, and again, and again that is what he does he thinks it's charming. And if you listen to the way, the crowd react, sometimes the crowd signs it charming to and it's very frustrating because it's a they don't it's I think the biggest reminder of. It is at that. This is a bad faith attack on Democrats, obviously. And just remind that he can go in front of these crowds and use these tropes himself while attacking Democrats being estimated in the next breath while right wing, anti semitism is on the right? I mean, you couldn't you couldn't write down a more clear-cut example of accusing someone of dual loyalties than telling them your prime minister. But you know, in twenty fifteen he told the same group, you're not going to support me, even though you know, him the best thing that could ever happen Israel because I don't want your money. You don't want to give me money you want to control your own politician. He said that to them that is the most antisemitic thing I've ever heard, and the reason that doesn't get replayed on Fox News and Breitbart in loops mused Trump's Republican because you'll hunt Omar is an African American Muslim who wears a he job that is the reason they play her shit over and over and over and her comments, they're reasonable people who could hear those comments and think that's offensive that's unfair. I don't like that. I completely respect them for feeling that way. And certainly certainly she received near universal. Adam nation. But what Trump doesn't says worse? We're not even talking about. All the literally lists who love him barely a blip these comments, and you know, it's it's funny because it's it's, you know, Trump does it like a we're all in on the joke. Negoti? You know, you're you're rich Jews Jews you love your money. But but it's not a joke to a lot of people who are watching it. Donald Trump doesn't just engage in this kind of anti semitic rhetoric in front of Jews. He has done it before he's famously done in private. It's been reported on many times you go back. Look, it's a small thing. But when Jon Stewart made fun of Donald Trump, Donald Trump referred to him as John liebowitz over and over again why because it was his Jewish name. And he would put Stewart in question marks. And he would call him us all I don't even remember them off the top of my head. But he would all kinds of anti semitic words about Jon Stewart. It is his nature. It's what he's using to appeal to people, and it is shameful for Jewish people to smile and smirk at this kind of fucking rhetoric that America's full that you're rich Jews who just try to buyer politicians because you think that he's in on the joke. There's a lot of people who aren't it's also important to understand that these are not just bad faith attacks coming from Donald Trump. Isn't just like Trump spout. Nuff the Republican Jewish coalition and Sheldon Adelson reportedly planning a ten million dollar campaign in twenty twenty to convince Jewish Americans who traditionally vote overwhelmingly democratic to vote for Donald Trump the man who just called the prime minister of Israel their leader. And I and I and I don't think it's directed. I think it's gonna be directed at Jewish Americans. But I think it's particularly directed at older Jewish Americans. And I am sure. And if my my personal experience in my family what I hear I I think it's working. I mean, so for for certain subset of older Jews. I think it's working. Yeah. I look I don't disagree. I mean, there's ten million bucks to reach two percent of the US population. But obviously if you're trying to swing couple thousand voters in Florida or Pennsylvania, this matters a lot that said like exit polling data since like the nineties has shown that that Jewish voters. Pre overwhelming, we go to Democrats, but also J street is done a bunch of polling. Because you know, hawkish Republicans always claimed that the Jewish vote is could be swum by just talking about Israel. But in fact, when they ask Jay streets, pollster American Jews, what are your top two voting issues? They usually say the economy healthcare terrorism gun violence about ten percent or less in these polls say Israel, also eighty percent of American Jews support a two state solution. So it may be the case this is a a threshold issue for a lot of older Jewish voters where they think of the democrat is insufficiently pro Israel. They then can look the Republican party. And that's probably the argument they're trying to make but just stepping back a bit. The the the unflinching Republican support for everything Israel does has nothing to do with Jewish voters. It has everything to do with evangelical voters who the the furthest right wing of which think that Israel needs to be fully controlled to have the rapture. Come and all the later be converted to. To Christianity or they'll go to hell like they're talking to Jon hagey, and Jerry Falwell junior, and those crazy creeps far more than they're actually talking to Jewish voters. I believe. Yeah. I I still wanna find the democratic Jewish voters who are democratic in every way. But because of Trump's position on Israel are now moving over as opposed to older Jewish voters who are already sort of Trump, a fide, and then thus are more willing to listen to this. And I don't know the answer. But we know either. But I do think it's this kind of thing where it's just this. It's just that it's sewing this little bit of doubt in the minds of subset of American Jews say, hey, you know, you can't trust these Democrats. Maybe you'll stay home maybe vote for Trump. Maybe he'll just maybe it'll just become a bigger issue for you. But it's just there to kind of just stoke that little bit of fear Saint that's what that's what the stuff too. It's it just leads a little bit of a Mark. I totally one of my neighbors, holocaust survivor, and I went over to her house ones. She's incredibly old, but Fox News is on all day, everyday blaring. And she's probably seeing the story after story about you'll know. Yes, it works and also just one more thing, and we'll get to it. But it's it's also about acquainting supporting Israel with supporting right wing, American, politics and supporting right wing, Israel politics. Right. That that that's that's like the biggest that's the most important long term project that they've been speaking of that just days before the elections coming up in Israel this week, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said in an interview that he'd start in X settlements in the West Bank. If he's reelected Netanyahu's who's the subject of multiple investigations is fighting for his political life. Tommy Wisey saying this and how bad is it? So just a little context. So, you know, be called early elections. You see thought it would prevent the attorney general in Israel who he handpicked who is a total right winger as well from bringing for Dighton. It's about him on or bring starting the process of indicting him on corruption charges that did not work. He's cut. How do we get that William Barr their legal system takes even longer than ours? It it's frustrating. So basically this election is on Tuesday and BB is he it's not just that the like who'd would win his party would win outright. Like, the democrat Republican party wins outright. There's like forty different parties running and they each to get a seat in the Knesset you need to reach three point two five percent because it's a proportional system. So what he's trying to do is get support from the furthest right wing political parties into get out like who'd numbers by doing these drastic last minute things in the twenty sixteen election the day before the election day or the day of you election day, he released a wildly racist. Video that said era voters were going to the polls in droves because they wanted to take him out. And that was how he inched over the line, and he is attacking get out the vote efforts among non Jews. And so this is this is very it's actually in a lot of equivalent to Donald Trump's sort of caravan stuff right before the nanny Ousman empower for for a deck. Kaid days days before the election. He announces a new right word right wing policy on the West Bank. First of all do people. Why wouldn't people see through that? But also, the only reason Netanyahu faces the threat right now is that there's been a kind of a new coalition formed in the center of Israel. But everyone kind of recognizes that Israel has moved to the right. Why like what explains what explains this power that? He has he's been a survivor for a long time. He's had personal corruption charges against him since the very beginning. He's running it's got him bennigan's in a coalition of former Israeli generals who I think, frankly, if they win we will not be close to happy with their politics either. So I mean with regard to the the need to annex West Bank settlements, basically, every member of the Likud policies already come out in support of this policy. It's just that no prime minister ever has Netanyahu has. So did you think it's a popular PA? With the Israeli people. I think it's growing more popular, and it certainly probably very popular in the Likud party, which is his, you know, the the conservative party in parties to the right? So what he's trying to do. Because of their weird system is he needs to forge coalitions with these super far right wing policies, including one that was so racist that there compared to Nazis, literally and into get out all his people because you can have you can have a scenario where a more moderate party wins more votes than the Likud party. But if they can't form a coalition to form a government than it falls back to you know, whoever else can can pull it off. So that that's what is place here. Now, I mean, the problem with this policy is most people view it as a nail in the coffin of a two state solution. Yeah. You know? I mean, these are the apartheid state if you do that there are there are there's always been assumption that in a negotiated two state solution. They're Isreaeli settlements that are right along the border that would be swapped in terms of territorial swaps. So that they would remain part of. Israel. What's happened is the settlement construction has gotten so far into the West Bank that to carve out all of those areas and bring them into Israel. You basically would make it. So you've had these islands of territory that become the West Bank. There's no, contiguous state and little dot little. Yes. That was by design. Well, yeah, I mean. Yeah. And so Israel now faces the sexist choice where they can continue to go for a two-state solution or they can essentially annexed the West Bank and have a a one state solution. But then you know, you you will then incorporate two point eight million Palestinians into Israel. And the question becomes is this democratic state do they have the right to vote, and if they don't it's no longer democratic state and presumably one of the obstacles to a prime minister annexing, the West Bank was that they'd face international rebuke, including from the Ed states, but Donald Trump onto that. That's exactly what I mean. Every other you know, BB may have wanted to this for very long time. Obama had you force him to say he sported a two-state solution. Back in two thousand nine they know that Trump will not say a damn word because they handed over the Golan Heights. And they they moved the Jerusalem embassy, which you know, in fairness to Trump every other presidents promised to do and not done. But but as Trump will never questioned this Trump will never questions. Pod save America is brought to you by quip. Okay. Sorry. I was thinking about the joke with the fake Joe clip that will never be release. You'll never hear it. One of the most important things we do for our health. Every day is brushing our teeth yet. Most of us don't do a properly quip is a better electric toothbrush. Created by dentists and designers quiz designed to make brushing your teeth. More simple, affordable even enjoyable. You're brushing your teeth. 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I refill pack free G E T Q U I, P dot com slash crooked positive America's brought to you by vice watch the untold true story that changed the course of history Christian bale stars in a truly transformative role is Dick Cheney. I would call it. Call it semi told. It's not like they didn't like plumb the depths, if some unknown figure, you know, anyway, watch the movie Amy Adams phenomenal as Dick's wife. Lynn and Sam Rockwell is Bush earned him a best supporting actor nomination vices directed by Adam McKay on Christian Bill, Amy Adams, Steve Carell, Sam Rockwell. And as I've said before I'll say it again Sam Rockwell, sending a message Josh Berlin net messages each shit. Steve Carell as Donald Rumsfeld was also quite good. Hey, guys. Steve cronin. Anything Mary kill dick Nixon, Dick Gephardt Dick Cheney get arts. I mean, you got to marry Gephardt love Gephardt. We can do this. Okay. Cool. Nominated for eight Academy Awards, including best picture best actor best supporting actor and best director vice available now on Blu. Ray get it for your Blu Ray and digital you. Big blue Ray guy, literally never seen a bluer Blu Ray player. Remember when there was that war formats back when I lived in DC, I remember for you sitting there watching no good movies rags? Rags about American pie and drastic world. Accurate. All right. Let's say about the Democrats in a new wide ranging interview with the Washington Post speaker Nancy Pelosi predicted that her party will hold onto the house in twenty twenty saying that she's quote going to have a racist. One by this November. That's a year early. Then she's got the next year to just sort of chill out meditation. Kickback Paul Kane of the post wrote that Pelosi rejected the idea that today's Democrats are further to the left than a decade ago. She said, it was just a few high profile people in congress, and then a few presidentials and his instead chartered a course of again appealing to moderate suburbanites in some rural voters, frustrated frustrated by Trump's reality, TV style presidency. She doesn't wanna focus on impeaching Trump or on farfetched legislation that has no hope of passing divided government from Cain. She promises not to repeat the mistakes leading up to twenty ten saying, quote, you cannot let your opponents characterize mischaracterize what you're about. So it was missing from that election was a strong messaging piece, and that's what we had in this last election in two thousand eighteen what are we thinking about policy strategy here. I know particular understand that two thousand ten point right because the other thing I don't think it was a messaging problem, even if there is a messaging problem, there's a big difference between running to take power and running to keep our so especially by the way, we should just lay out the context running to keep power after you've passed a massive government program, the Affordable Care Act and the economy has not even started recovering from the worst recession since the great depression. And we're in this. We're in this twenty ten or in this this word, I constantly regret. Using this limited space between ObamaCare passing middle space between ObamaCare passing and being vilified and ObamaCare actually becoming something that's part of people's lives. Right. Like yesterday. Man. Right before twenty eighteen we stood up GO cities that healthcare dot gov. So it was a it was love it. Now, they can't get enough of it. They more. What else do we think about her her strategy? They're saying, you know, it's moderates roommates rural voters worried about them. I mean, I it seems like they're she's trying to give cover to a lot of moderate Democrats who won in two thousand eighteen in districts where impeachment might not be popular in in in districts, where some of the more progressive legislation that we've all talked about nausea might not be as popular. She's trying to take some swings in Aero's for them in advance of them having to talk about it. Yeah. I mean, one thing we have to understand is that Nancy Pelosi's job is different from any of these democratic presidential candidates. They're trying to put together a coalition national coalition that adds up to two hundred seventy electoral votes in doing. So we have often said that you need a candidate who can rally inspire the base of the party, including people who haven't felt like they wanted to vote before non voters and still appeal to sort of these middle. Of the road independent. Swing voters whatever you wanna call them. And that's what that's what we need in the presidential level on the house level. There are a lot of districts where there's not a lot of base voters. And there's not a lot of like trying to get a and that is and we have to remember and recognize Twenty-eight teen. We did not win the house because there was this sort of like liberal surge. Among the base we won the house because a lot of these districts there were a lot of Republican voters who decided to vote democrat for the first time independent voters. And that's what's on Nancy, Pelosi's might and that is a different task than what the presidential candidates have to just think, you know, we talked about before too. There are no really grand conclusions. You can draw from twenty eighteen in in the sense of saying, this is the way you need to run to win how seat right there are there cavalry district's that we won even with very liberal candidates. But still won by pulling a pulling independence and pulling on Republicans. They're more liberal districts where people like AFC could mount a campaign that not. Only helps them win the district, but kind of creates a new benchmark for how far the left can be inside the Democratic Party, and that has value. So like, you know, they're gonna be places where Democrats can run on Medicare for all can run on can run can call for impeachment can can can put a marker down for the green new deal. And then they're gonna districts where people have to run a more moderate race. That's that's the game. That's okay. That's all I mean, and we should say it's not to say that if you're in one of these purple reddish districts, you have to run some moderates interest campaign, we made this point a million times. But Katie porter won a suburban out here. That was very Republican. She's for Medicare for all protege of Elizabeth Warren still won that race. But it's not like there's a lot of Democrats who were in some of these reddish purple districts who won their seats by talking about abolishing ice. Yeah. I mean, there's a lot of jockeying going on you see every day on Twitter to define who is a progressive. What progressivism is a lot of it is involved discussion about Medicare for all or a by? In plan or legislation. Pelosi put forward to to sure up ObamaCare in the interim, right? Like, that's a conversation. That's happened a lot. It was interesting talking to who Castro because he has an immigration policy that way to the left of anyone else, and that's not seen as the same sort of litmus test. So it's a question of how will he start to define his policy as the litmus test for what it means to be progressive, or we'll hit all he's like, that's how you're gonna get to let these people in this campaign. Remember to there's this balance that someone like Nancy Pelosi has to strike, right? Because on the one hand, Xi setting the agenda. Right. She's going to decide what it does mean to be progressive in a way, that's practical. Right. She is going to help set that boundary at the same time. She's also gonna share this kind of like what what does amount to kind of a form of punditry and saying here's what I believe some candidates have to do. Here's I believe other candidates to do. But the thing to remember is we have seen repeatedly is that Nancy Pelosi is not going to be the obstacle to how far left democratic politics. Go. The house version of ObamaCare was further. The left than the Senate version of ObamaCare. Anything we end up passing if we are so lucky as to take the Senate, the the bound will be determined by the debates take place inside of the Senate. Her job is just to retain the house try to build that majority. Right. Well, yeah. And it's also it's a question of you know, let's fight about what version of healthcare legislation. We pass once we actually have the power to pass it as opposed to fighting about it now because you vote for Medicare for you. Go for Bernie Sanders, spill, and you know, Representative John Pels Bill in the house right now on single payer or you could vote for Nancy Pelosi's ACL legislation that would show up the either of those votes right now, they ain't going anywhere after leave us in notably. Congressman John Paul supports Pelosi's Bill to shove ACH right now. The one exception. I think what love it was saying is that Pelosi is trying to supports efforts by the triple C to prevent people from helping out primary. Challenges to Democratic Party. So these end she is she is protecting incumbents. I guess you could argue that that prevents a party from moving to the less, but also completely understandable from her point of view to not want to spend money on primary. Kind of thing McConnell would do. We would all sort of grudgingly admire how cynical awful he is. I personally think if you want to primary someone in a safe district gopher, but the the it's it's a notable exception. That's where I disagreed with her. And in this interview, her decision to support the the D triple C's blacklist. So like, you said the triple C is basically saying we will blacklist any firm any consulting firm that works for anyone. Who's mounting a primary challenge to a sitting House Democrat. And look, I think primaries are healthy for this party. Now, I think it's interesting row Khanna who's one of the more liberal members of the house. He seems floated a compromise. And he said, well, why don't we say that if you're mounting a primary challenge to someone in a safe blue? Cheat. You know, we won't blacklist your consulting firm. You should be able to do it every want that primary challenge. But you shouldn't mount a primary challenge to someone who sitting in a reddish purple seat that could flip. And I think that's a pretty sensible compromise. We have understand that primary challenges within the Democratic Party and house challenges have happened for such a long time. Right. Like a Bronco. Bama. Ran against Bobby rush for his first congressional race. You know, that's how Beto Arocca won his seat mounted a primary challenge. Right. Like this has happened for longtime. Now don't think this is going to dissuade anyone from running. It is going to create a debate debate. We're having right now that basically says that a portion of the party's opinion isn't wanted or isn't welcome. It's also gonna mean that there's firms that are gonna then become primary like I don't even know how this shakes out, but you end up in a situation where you're literally dividing the party between people who work for incumbents and people who work for primary challengers, and there's a lot of places where there should be primary founders because he's very blue districts with members that have been there for a long time who don't represent the best interests of their district and. Are far to the right of where the democratic mainstream has become or if you think that they do represent the district, then they make that case voters, and the, and you know, and whoever wins wins. On a scale. They're trying to mount a primary challenge to Richard Neal in Massachusetts, you know, because he won't hold a hearing on Medicare for all in the ways and means committee now they're gonna hold the hearing for Medicare for all in the house Nancy Pelosi promised that he doesn't wanna do. So his committee. He's also the guy that's now going after Trump's tax returns, you could make an argument that he's pretty liberal. But if you say that he's not liberal enough run the primary challenge if he's liberal enough. He wins the seat if not he doesn't I think there might just be a practical problem here for the Dietrich. We'll see if you have a pollster who's working on ten races for you. And they're on calls with your paid media teen research team, your com seem all the time person is also working on a primary challenge against your it. Just creates some weird channel. Channel. They're probably getting ahead of an inspector general like, you know, running around the numbers, it's all fields. Like if he was like a lot of work so prevent someone from doing. Some polling running some ads. Also, kind of elevates the role that consultants play the whole thing, which is which is already way too elevated in people's minds because of all these stories, right? Like, it's actually not as big of a deal the consultants. Don't mean the fuck way, they just don't you gonna take away the lifeblood of these campaign? Well, you know, everyone everyone thinks like, you know, hire high priced consultants, and they win your campaign for you. It's just not what happens you need a good candidate good message. That's the fundamental come out there and be like member middle class. Yeah. So speaking of all this our old boss BRAC Obama was talking to young leaders in Berlin over the weekend. And he said that he worries that sometimes progressives create a circular firing squad because our allies stray from purity on the issues is he right to worry. I think he does is he on Twitter. Quitter which is which is good for him. I think he just probably here's here's the fights. He might be right. It might be totally fine. That there is a constant roiling conversation about democratic policy ideas that consumes the media narrative the way the fucking Trump show didn't twenty sixteen. I have no idea. I do think I do think look, it drives me crazy personally when I see people running down, for example, the Affordable Care Act. I think it's the height of privilege to say that Medicare expansion or twenty million people getting health insurance is not somehow significant for those individuals. Right. Like, that's you might think I'm wrong, and that's just fine. But I think it's an absurd argument. Yeah. My my view on this has always been we should absolutely have fierce policy debates over the direction of the party and everyone should be free to participate in those in those debates, but what I start worrying about is challenging each other's motivations. Nhs, right. When you pick a specific policies saying that your, you know, your corporate Schill doing this for this reason, or that reason like that's when it starts to get bad. Because that's when you know, we start we when we start telling each other that this democrat is not worthy because they're like a little bit to the right on this policy or that policy. You know, that's the problem you it's completely fine to say my candidate support this policy the other candidates this policy. I don't think it goes far enough. And so that's why I'm that's why for my great then fight that out. I think part of much nastier than that on Twitter. I think part of it is that so much of our debate around candidates, politics or ideology is about what we'll do when we get power that ends up being an argument about who's who's really gonna do what they say who can you really count on who's really progressive when the evidence the record or going on is mostly words, mostly proposals. Mostly how they how strongly. They talk about certain issues. And I think then when debates I guess it's like circling fires wads like, well, what's in the chamber? You know, what what are we firing at each other? And it's like when when a debate balls onto see this is why you can't trust this person. See this is why you shouldn't ever listen to this person. See this is why you should disavow disabuse yourself this entire wing of the party. I think that is when you have crossed the line. I'm totally fine with with elections being really contentious. I think vetting candidates is a good thing. You should dig into their record. We should do it now before that person wins, and it happens in the general election. Yeah. That should be our operating assumption. I don't care if it's nasty and contentious, I just think it's an argument that you should think about whether the way you attack someone's motives or criticize them personally might turn someone off from your candidate permanently. Yeah. That's a that's a thing that people should consider. And I'll say I saw people pointing out that, you know, Bracco Bama and Hillary Clinton ran quite a contentious against each other in two thousand eight maybe more contentious than the Bernie Hillary. In two thousand sixteen. I think there's a lot of evidence for that. But you know, what all of us on both campaigns, the Obama campaign and the Clinton campaign will look back at some of those debates and some of those attacks, and we're not super proud of all of it. You know, like that that debate where she's saying you're slum Lord res- co and Obama saying you sat on the corporate board of wal mart. Like, I don't think that was a great moment for either of them. And I don't think that was very constructive. And I don't think that helped the health either of them and helped the party at all. Well, part of the problem of those debates at the time they'd been debating for such a long time their policy differences were minimal. Yeah. It was. It was just the it was the the man the man the healthcare mandate where we're in some in some vote on Ron there was the whole Iraq war thing. But by but that by then these fights litigated so much and mostly what they'd been proposing to president align so much they were left with like so little to actually yell at each other about Iraq was the big one and then Iraq was in the past. So then it was like going forward. It was too similar to the designation which Trump today that was I was just thinking that let's talk about twenty twenty over the last few days. I think something like forty additional Democrats that's running for president, Ohio. Congressman Tim Ryan announced on Thursday. The forty five year old Ryan who's been in congress in two thousand three is perhaps best known for running unsuccessfully against Nancy Pelosi from an order leader back in two thousand sixteen he picked himself on the view as a progressive who knows how to talk to working class people get elected and working class districts, California. Congressman Eric swallow is announcing his bid on Colbert tonight Monday night, and he'll be hosting a town hall this week on gun safety with our friend Cameron Caskey one of the survivors of the shooting last year in parkland, Florida because he wants to focus his campaign on gun violence, Colorado Senator. Michael Bennett said last week that despite a recent prostate cancer diagnosis he's committed to running for president once he's healthy others. Still considering a run include former Virginia governor, Terry McAuliffe, New York City mayor Bill de Blasio, Montana governor, Steve Bullock and Stacey Abrams so outside of Stacey Abrams. I'm gonna put aside because she is fantastic and has a national profile. I've seen a lot of complaining mocking on Twitter about all of these perspective. Candidacies let's take the other side. Just for shits and giggles here. What's the argument for running? If you're one of these candidates. What are they seeing when they look at the political environment and the current field? It's telling them, I should do this. It's hard. I don't know. I honestly don't. I mean, look Eric swallow isn't easier example, it seems like he wants to run a campaign that's primarily focused on stopping gun violence. Right. That is admirable that's sort of like, the it's interesting approach. But I also think it's an open question for me. If that approach where you say, I'm the I'm the the climate change candidate. Jay Inslee did the best way to elevate that issue. I would argue that ABC did a hell of a lot more elevate the issue of climate change or the people who protested Diane Feinstein's office than Jay Inslee has so far. Now, it's early maybe that will change. But like, that's my honest, take on it. So maybe I don't know. Maybe they're going to bring something to this race that we can't see yet. And so we should by. No means rule them out. It's just when you enter this late. It's hard to fundraise. It's hard to get staff. It's hard to meet the threshold to get into debates. I'm not sure I get the strategy. I don't know if you think about running on an issue, you know, there's two reasons to run on the issue one because you wanna make the issue central to politics. Or to you want to use the issue as a launching pad for your own legitimate full-throated presidential race. I I don't know in the case of swallow or Ensley what the goal is. But in either case, you know, you look at this field right now, you see better at work who is no longer in congress who has raised millions of dollars. You see mayor judge who turned and I'm just not a criticism at all who who turned a few key moments on television, where he was thoughtful and interesting and new into enough of a base of support to get on that debate sage you look at that. And you say all right. I have one one persuasive powerful moment about the climate. I have one persuasive powerful moment about gun control in a CNN townhall. Maybe I can get the sixty five thousand donors. Maybe I get on the debates age, and I and the debates ages a chance to reach the people that you can't reach when you don't have national profile to maybe a lot of people are saying the debates ages the threshold if I make it I make a shot at it. If I don't I'm out. Exactly, right. I think I have a few thoughts on this. I mean, I think this all started with it might have started with Brock Obama winning the presidency. Right. He was a state Senator who was then a Senator for a year and then became president. It's dates it accelerated in a huge fucking way with Donald Trump winning the presidency because he was just we know we know this whole story would have to repeat it again. But. President. So they were skipping on America. So you see that? And then you think okay? Well, you know, anyone can really do this now. Right. If Donald Trump's president anyone can do this now. And then you think the way that the media has changed right where you can get all this national attention for a couple viral moments. Right. And the way that raising money in the Democratic Party has changed used to have to like Noah bunch of rich donors and sit with them in in suck up to them and get money that way. Now, you can raise a ton of money online. And so they look at all this kind of stuff, and I think you're right, especially it started with Beto in this race. But especially Buddha judge right where these people these people are congressman or build Blasios case, you know, the largest city in the country and they're saying like he is a mayor of a pretty small college town, and and has had no other elected office. And this guy has raised seven million dollars. And is now this sort of national candidate who's really has a chance in the race guy who benefits from run. Even if he doesn't become an ongoing that's the more cynical version of this, which is you run for office to get a cabinet appointment or worse, you run to get a book deal. Or if you're in Kane, you get a book deal, and you get name to the fed later. Right. Just because you run for president. And you raise your profile and out. I don't I'm not making that accusation by the Democrats. But certainly that was the case for most of the Republicans who ran for president for sure did it to make money down the road. I'm not making these accusation either. I I really hope that's not true because I do not have. I do not respect as much. I will just say people who are running who thinking I'm not going to win. But I'm just running because I want to raise my profile like, and I don't and look I think like Pete Buddha judge is not running because he wants to raise the profile. I think he really wants to do this. You know? But I think if you're if you're running for president, if you do this, you really have to think that there is a path for you. And that you want to run, and maybe all these people do, and I think the reason they do is for all these reasons they like all I need is a couple big moments. You know, where I take off? And then if I can just get to that debate stage and show people, you know, what I am what my message is what my story is then they're looking at the field too, by the way, and they're saying we have two front runners Joe Biden and Bernie Sanders one in the race one on the race yet. And they're not like traditionally superstrong front runners like Hillary was in two thousand fifteen twenty sixteen. You know, they are they're both polling it like between twenty five and thirty percent, you know, Biden support as tick down. Little bit Bernie's estate solid, but they're not so strong and no one. And then after that you've got comma Warren Beddoe, and now Buddha judge all sort of in the mix at around eight to ten percent. And then a whole bunch of you looking at that field in your like, nothing scaring me away. Right. And I also just they're human beings. And I just think we don't know how loud the applause was in their minds in the shower while giving their inaugurals. They must be extraordinarily speeches that these people are giving to themselves. I mean, look, I think Howard Schultz is a good example of someone who was practicing running for president is mind for very very long time. That's a whole only discovered only discovered how hard it was when he started saying de LA other human beings. That's our garbage can of coffee grant Howard. Who got his candidacy unraveled in one interview with Alli Vel? She thinks that he's belongs on the world stage. What a clown alley Vel. She wasn't who was interviewing him in the shower. But yeah, I mean just to but everyone everyone should run. And we'll see what have is claimer. We have no Lamer. And honestly like I have no fucking idea. What's going to happen in this primary? I don't know about you guys. But like every single locked every single day. I read the news. I'm like, I would be nothing would surprise me in this primary. Some say cast is a pit. I think has a ladder. John. When we come back interview with Nobel peace prize nominee. Amanda winn. Parts of America brought to you by frame bridge. If you've been listening to the show, you've heard us talk about frame bridge. They make it super easy and affordable to frame your favorite things from art prints and posters to the travel photos sitting on your phone. Here's how it works easy. You're gonna you're gonna go to frame bridge dot com, and you're gonna upload your photo. Or if it's if it's a hard copy, they're gonna send you packaging to safely mail it in send You Tube preview item online in any frame style. You choose your favorite or get free recommendations from their talented designers. If you're like, I don't have time to design the shit. They got their talented designers for good the expertise frame bridge will custom frame your item deliver your Finnish piece directly to your door. Ready to hang a framework story there. I was at a fancy Hollywood party. And I see someone I've known for quite some time. Dear old friend, Chrissy Teagan. That's right. She's a friend of mine. She comes up to me. And she says hi nice to meet you. Many people are. And I said Hello. And she goes, oh, and then she realized what she had done. Anyway, she then tweet it. I was planning to forget forever. She tweeted about it frame bridge found a picture. All of us in that moment, laughing and having a good time right before Chrissy Teigen, introduce yourself to me. Please let rained it with the quote beneath that said nice to meet you listeners. Please let us know how far back in your head. You're is rolled during that story. Listen if I can't. If I can't talk about my life in these ads. What am I gonna talk about? The ads the ads. Instead of hundreds you'll pay the frame store. Their prices started thirty nine dollars in shipping is free. Plus our listeners will get fifteen percent off their first order at frame bridge dot com when they use the code crooked, go to frame dot com and use promo code crooked. You'll save an additional fifteen percent off your first order to frame bridge dot com. Promo code crooked frame, bridge dot com, promo code crooked. Pots of America's Brad you cash at brought to you by the cash out. It is the fastest easiest way to pay people back to get paid back. Download the app you put in the code pod. Save or Spencer or Spencer is not real five dollars is going you five dollars going to the Planned Parenthood action fund, helping to protect women's health from legal assault all over the country. What more can I say guys? Do you have anything to add on this? Everybody's to the cash app and not using other payment upsetting more don't be left behind. Don't be the last one that you know, the worst. The worst person is the last person is which of the cash. Yeah. And you know, the best person is the first person you little friend group. Little group of similarly minded people your suite of tools. I've seen people kicked out of friend groups for using other apps in L A. It's a real thing. Yeah. Lost a couple of good friends that way, and you know, then I say I say if they were using the cash up we're the kind of friends you wanted to. If your friends jumped off a bridge named after another app, would you follow them? No way. I am honored to have in crooked media HQ. Amanda winn. She's the founder and CEO of rise a non-governmental civil rights organization. She was the power behind the sexual assault survivors Rights Act, one of twenty three bills to three bills. Michael Jordan number of bills to pass unanimously through US congress in twenty thirteen she graduated from Harvard University where she studied astrophysics and was a twenty nineteen Nobel peace prize nominee. Amanda, it's great to see you again. Thank you last time. I saw you. We met for an hour about how you figured out to do something. Most officials can't to pass laws. But then I hold you for like thirty minutes to talk about something I saw on cosmos, which has recently taken off Netflix, which is very upsetting. But you are going to see a spaceship launch day glac, dick. How was it? It was amazing all space launches are. Amazing. Have you been doing no? It's so they put cameras all over them. I mean, you must putting his tesla on the spaceship was just brilliant. Yes. So you're basically, you're on track to be an astronaut Alan to be that's my main dream. So this whole like writing civil rights stuff. It's like I'm trying to do a blueprint. So that I can get to space. We'll get the space at the end. So I think if people wanna learn even more about the work, you're doing it rise. You didn't awesome awesome crooked conversation with Lisa ARCE that gets into a ton of detail. But there's some new stuff as of this week that I want to cover so. We'll probably do a little less, but let's start there in in the work rise does so foundational to what you're doing. Totally what's rise in. How are you able to pass more pieces of legislation than anybody thought possible by taking our eagles in shoving it somewhere? Okay. Okay. So rises us all right on profit. And I started it because I needed to law rights, and nobody was going to write it for me. So after my rape at Harvard. I discovered a broken criminal Justice system rape kits and Massachusetts before my law passed were destroyed before the statute of limitations. There's a huge dole standard. So convicted rapists have the right to hold onto it for the ration- of their changes. Yeah. The other double standard is that other types of class violent felonies like murder, they never have their evidence destroyed but rape does. And I thought that was unfair. And so I realized I had a choice I could accept injustice or rewrite the law one of these things a lot better than the other. So I rewrote it. When I started rise was a team of us, and we sought to pass the sexual assault survivor live rights through the United States Congress. If you thought we were Joe, they're like look at twenty something year olds you have no. Any you have no power, you have no connections. And then we did it. It's amazing. Like, you have this astrophysics background your get science and math to organize like, how did you apply? Some of the things you're passionate about to the work. You're doing because I feel like you kind of hacked the system in a way that a lot of people talk about if you people really do totally. So for us data and being data driven is extremely important. And when we walked into a members of congress office, we knew every single vote that they've ever done on this everything they've said and also they're like cook Peavy I score. Right. And it was not only the moral case for why they should do this. But also the political case or why anyone should do this. So it came with a lot of strategy. But when we passed at that time, we became the twenty-first Bill Maher modern history to do so unanimously and the statistic for that point zero one six percent. But the most remarkable thing wasn't that. It was what happened after? So when President Obama signed it in two thousand sixteen we heard from over a million people who reached out to say, hey, I'm having these issues in my own community to and can you help us meet pen my own civil rights to distance. And so we sought to replicate that success. And I created a theory of organizing called hoping on mix. It's part game design theory, and then part national security theory in what it does is a game. If is the process of passing a law in over the past twenty one months, we've passed Twenty-one laws unanimously we trained over two hundred organizers do that. And it covers about forty million people civil rights. That's incredible. It's like, it's truly remarkable accomplishment. So this kind of blends into your announcer for this week Billy, do you think your theory of the case could be borrowed by someone who is passionate about criminal Justice reform or fill in the blank. That's the whole point. Right. So so much of politics isn't about facts, it's about how do you talk to irrational human beings of how making them believe it's in their best interest. Not only logically but emotionally as well. And. And that's exactly what we've done. So we take in. Now, the knowledge and resources we've amassed over these twenty one laws, and we're taking the next step. So we've built America's premier civil rights accelerator, and we call it rise Justice labs, so you just a couple days ago, you launch this project incubator for people who want to build a movement around 'cause that they care about. So how is rise Justice labs going to work? Yeah. So here's how it works in cities across America. There are umbrella organizations that gives seed funding to tech entrepreneurs. So when a tech entrepreneur has an idea based on the merit of their idea. They can pitch to VC firms and get seed funding mentorship. And that doesn't exist for civil rights until now. So what we do. We took a social entrepreneurship plans to grassroots organizing when an activist or an organizer wants to pass a law. They can apply to us. And if they get accepted will give them seed funding training. Ding access to professional services like lawyers and community an essentially we're covering the opportunity cost of someone starting up a social movement that is so important because I've heard you talk about this. But I think you saw this after parkland where? If a student who survived one of the attacks dare to tweet something about finding some joy in their day to day life. They were smacked down. Like, how dare you enjoy what you're doing? There's this sense. I think that activism has to be punitive for the individuals involved. It's totally crazy unfair. I don't believe in martyrdom, and actually, I'm so glad that you brought them up because we've actually started rise Justice labs under the radar for the past eight months and the first team we're so proud to work with our survivors alumni and friends other people who work with the folks from park land, the the survivors of majority stolman Douglas high. That's amazing. So like when I think about how effective you been effective. They've been it's like a transformers coming together. What are they looking to learn from you, and you're going to so this group of young people incredible young people founded by a young man named Robert Hsien trip. So he lost sister Carmen in the shooting on ever. Get it. So he came to me and said, I just wanna make sure that politicians. I don't care what part of the R will be able to be safe in voting for gun violence prevention because I just don't want to lose. My other sister, gun, violence and dot dot kind of organizing that kind of attitude is what it takes. And so over the past eight months, they've been incubated at rise fulltime they've gone through our training, and they are now in fifteen states. They have met with President Trump in the Oval Office. Yeah. Yeah. It was incredible. And with democratic leadership and just last month, Robert testified in the Colorado state house for a Bill they're supporting called Urpo in that Bill pass on its way to the gover- stuck that is remarkable God, the antidote to being frustrated with Washington is to get into states like that. Well, look, this is a time of frustration of political tribalism and of winning faith in our democracy. And I don't think that there's ever been a more vital moment in our history for people to understand that they hold the power, right? I am so sick of politicians who just for re tweets have these reduced sound soundbites instead of making steadfast policy, and for people who want an alternative to you know, giving money to candidates right there only five hundred thirty. Five seats in congress. You can run for them also run for local office. But also if you don't wanna run, or if you lose needs to want to serve in some way, there's a path for you to make change you see like, if I was a member of congress view, the most successful one pass twenty one laws unanimously, the only reason I was able to do that is by being outside of the political fray, right, right? So the other thing I think the other tension. I see a lot online because that's where we all live is what's real activism versus hashtag activists. So I kind of think the false choice, right? Like marching works. Sit in works. But I imagine if Dr king had the social media tools, we have today would have used those as well. Right. So where's the balance? What creative things you seen young people do that merge? Those the history with what we can do today. Well, I think our centuries industrial revolution is digital. And that the path, you know, the networks of distribution are absolutely social media. If I go to celebrity who has millions and millions of followers and ask them to tweet about calling in something. Those members of congress will be hearing those phone calls right in so hashtag activism along with other forms of organizing are all valid. But at the end of the day, what is it that you're trying to -ccomplish and for us at rise. We I didn't have the political luxury of cathartic performance. Like what I mean by that is I needed to work with people from all sorts of. Walks of life and people I didn't agree with in order to pass laws because for me in order for a healthy democracy to function its citizens need to be able to hash things out. And we have I think in this moment of extreme extreme toxic political tribalism lost. And so for folks who still want to make a change. There's a way and they can go ahead and apply to us at rise. Yeah. So you talk about the tribalism in the way it plays out in the media. I mean, the brick have nomination like homo Sony wanna if so awful, right? This incredibly believable credible. Compelling emotional testimony for Dr Blasi Ford, followed by fucking temper tantrum from Lindsey Graham, and that seemed to inspire their base more than Dr Ford's testimony got Democrats to turn out in in oppose the nomination in that like broke my heart. I just couldn't believe we lived in a country where. That is how someone would respond to trauma in like that. Right. And then more recently, we have a very different debate. That was similar tones about Joe Biden, and like what is appropriate, and, you know, whether you know, whether something fall short of of sexual assault or misconduct. Whether making someone uncomfortable at how we talk about those sorts of issues in the public square. So like, I guess I'm trying to figure out what's the best outcome. We can get from the conversations that we have publicly now about all of these issues. I I think America into world as an extent is going through mass public trauma together for the first time in the news. We're seeing very deeply rooted traumatic things that were stick Matic ones being played out over over twenty four seven, and that is expecting the way that people are responding not only to politics, but in there. Everyday lives. And the second thing is that regardless of the political spectrum. What at least I've observed from the things that have gone on is I is no longer. Do you believe survivors? It's if it is if survivors matter and the whole point that I'm trying to show, not only survivors. But everyday people is not only do you matter, but you have agency we're demystifying the process of passing law and trying to give people a roadmap because people are just fed up with investing or putting their hopes into politicians that maybe will do something for them. There's a profit model in politics of people paying premium to lobbyists and consultants for access to research connections and maybe ill work out. But for us there are people on the ground in the. These communities. Look, it's my deeply f- that the people who have the solutions to the world's most pressing problems are the people who live the problem every day, and those people should be at the drafting table too. So why does cut out the middleman right off it? So if you're listening to say, you're at home right now, you're listening to this. You're fired up by your success. You wanna get involve you apply to rise Justice labs. How do you do that? And what do you want to hear for them if they're gonna go from applicant to accept it? Because I imagine you're and get a lot of people trying to be a part of this. Yeah. So folks can go to rise now dot US, an apply, and what we're looking for are people who are passionate who have really big ideas about how to change the world. And who have what it takes? And here's what it takes somebody who can compromise right? One of the final questions. I'll give away one of the final questions that we always ask any person who applies to rise is if you were to meet President Trump. What would you say question? Yeah. And if the answers anything short of respect, they're not accepted because at the end of the day, we have to compromise we have to work with people. That's what democracy and our legislative process demands. And I still have faith in our legislative process. That's why we're be able to you know, pass laws. That's amazing. Okay. One space question. Okay. The path from today to becoming an astronaut how many years is that? And what do you have to do? So that's a really both exciting and complicated because there are multiple routes obviously so used to work at NASA. And that would be my dream to be emission specialist on one of their deep say Chenchens, hopefully to Mars. Yeah. But it's much more likely for me to go to space through a private space program. And there are a ton of companies who are exploring and making a lot of innovation head. Way into private space. So I am really excited to be able to contribute in both ways. You're bullish on private space. Yes, definitely. I've literally seen it with my own eyes. Last time. I was here. I headed from you to virgin galactic and saw the first woman ever to fly in commercial spaceflight into space and come back down. That is so cool. Amanda, it is so inspiring to talk to you. Thank you so much for coming in everyone should apply. Yes. Such a good idea. We need to see this replicated all across the country because that's the only way we're going to make some progress. Yeah. Yeah. Everyone should know one is powerless and we come together getting the game people. Thanks. Thanks man to win for joining us. And we'll see in Boston. The rest of you will hear us from Boston on Friday tickets for leave in Boston on Wednesday, high snap up those tickets.

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