Liftoff 90: My Feet Belong on the Ground
Hello and welcome to lift off from your friends every day. Brought to you this week by express VPN and casper lift off with a fortnightly show where you don't have to be a rocket. Scientist to understand the latest news about space and related subjects. My name is Jason Snell him, I'm joined as always by my co host Stephen Hackett. Hello. Hello. Jason. How are you? Pretty good. Pretty good. It feels like the new year is finally like shaken off the rest, or whatever and the government shutdowns and all sorts of stuff and things are happening in space and here in Texas. Not here in Texas things are happening things happening in Florida. Yeah. Things are happening at the edge of the system. It's a busy time. Busy busy time. Like, oh, let's go on. I was thinking just this morning and doing the prep for the show that it's been awhile since we've done like a science explainer episode, but there's so much news. It's like we need things pause for a little while. So we can talk about Neptune or something. Yeah. Yeah. I was thinking about that too. We're gonna have to get back to that. Also, the the Apollo fiftieth a lot of our time. But I'm sure we're going to get back to I actually I've been reading a bunch of science related books lately. And that usually will spawn me wanting to do an explainer episode about. So I read the Steinbach and reading the one of the Feinman biographies now, so. Oh, you know. Maybe we'll learn how to build atomic bomb later. I have Jason Snell book club our import. Yeah. We spoke last time about the SpaceX starship. So this is it's hopper. Putting hopper air quotes hopper. Rocket to work through someone technology used for its next sort of next level vehicles. And we mentioned last time that it's built out of stainless steel, and it's covered in a thin shiny metal as well. And we talked a little bit about maybe why they would use stainless steel and had an interview Popper popular mechanics that link is in the show notes. But basically, it comes down to several things I think we were right about basically, everything we said, but one thing that I hadn't really considered was just the price. And so this is quoting from talking to the magazine saying that carbon fiber is like almost two hundred dollars a kilogram because you have to scrap like thirty five percent of it as you work with it said, it's very difficult to work with which would imagine as steel as like three. Kilogram massively cheaper to work with and to if you have scrap something easier to recycle scrap carbon-fiber, apparently is a nightmare to deal with. So you have the the cost angle. And there's things that we talked about that can be like, wait, it can be easy to work with you don't have to have someone who's like specially trained in dealing with carbon and molds and all that stuff that finding people who can work with steals. More common skill set and something to is that it can handle both the very cold and the very hot temperatures that it will experience it can handle that actually pretty well. So this is like a stay hardened stainless steel that is designed to be a bunch of different applications. And if you think about something like a rocket you have very cold temperatures with the fuel being. Very very cold keeping that keeping that density high you can load more propellant on and then it's very hot. When you have things like engines burning and you have re entry. Reinsurers warm, you know, and then again, if you're, you know, up really high in the atmosphere or out in space, it's cold there too. So sort of interesting that he walked through this. And in this interview, he's asked like willing to how to engineering team sort of take your suggestion on this like, oh, yeah. It took me a while to talk them into this is a sort of an unusual way to do things now. But he he seems like must seem to think that this could be a way Ford for them at least on this vehicle. I don't think that there's basics of saying that this is what's going to be on the real deal. But at least for now at least for this test vehicle. They're gonna use stainless steel. Yeah. I mean, we'll we'll see. It's fascinating the idea of the material science, and I got the sense from that interview with musk that he's very much saying. Like, we thought it would be really cool and clever to use carbon fiber. And then we realized that, you know, in the end something that's more boring is actually way better than I think there's I think there's a tendency among especially these billionaires who trying to reinvent space to think. Well, we're going to cool modern stuff and not this boring tried and true stuff. And then you go through that process, and you end up coming back to this is why strident true I understand now it's a little bit like not to draw too far parallel. But it's a little like saying these space capsules are dumb. We're going to build a space shuttle everybody be like, maybe the capsules aren't so bad. We'll just do modern capsules maybe that was the right approach after all even though it's not it's old and not cool. Maybe it's the right way for reasons, and I feel like. You'll musk is doing a little bit. I imagined he's done that throughout his time at space x to where he's had like pushes his people to be like, why don't we do at a new way? And sometimes they're like, yeah. This is this this is the way to do it. We're going to reuse the rockets it's gonna be awesome and other times like no tried and true is the way to go. So. Sometimes the old ways are best. But what happened Stephen what you left out an important part of that story, which is that that something happened to the little spaceship test guy it fell down. So this is being put together in Texas has a large facility there, and they had some high winds come through. And so I've read a couple of things it seems like at the very least the knows the upper section fell down. I got blown over maybe the whole thing. It's the same some damage, and but it's not a loss must said that he could be repaired they'll take a few weeks, and then it should be kinda back on target via the starship hopper. Got blown over in the wind and the wind the wind you build something for those cold temperatures, and for the temperature of re entry, and then the wind gets you there some Arnie in that suppose, you know, it's a bummer, but. It. It's fixable. But it is funny. So we have some commercial crew news because the government is has started to awaken from its slumber. That is also this is the the preflight checklists. The prefect is heavy on the space. X this time. I feel like they were waiting for the government to reopen. Stuff. Like, you're, you know, you're standing outside and you're waiting, and it's like come on turn the sign over that says we're open so we can get in there. So there's a commercial update they've been talking about this month launching their commercial crew tests, which is not with people. This is the one where they use the crew dragon. So it's the capsule that's rated for people, but they're going to do a test without people in it. And now, so they did the hot fire test where it's, you know, it's basically out there ready to go, and they fire up the engines a little bit just to kinda give it a test that happened five days ago as we as we record this on the twenty fourth of January the government is open for business and SpaceX says that as early as February twenty third they could do this launch. Again, not the flight with the real astronauts. But according to pulling in the show notes to a nice ars Technica story about this that they're still kind of targeting summer. And I think you'll on musk said summer and Eric at ars Technica. Who is wise about these things said so late summer or early fall just build him that that fudge factor? And that's assuming everything goes well with the test, but it looks like we might actually get a flight of the crew dragon which is necessary that that is the beginning of the story of SpaceX doing commercial crew. Absolutely. So this hopefully makes this date. You know, there's another potential government shutdown on the horizon. But hopefully, they can they can get this get this done. They did the hot fire test couple of days ago, like they're they're ready to go. But you gotta have your government partners. They're ready to go as well. So what's the big step said this feels like the gateway into commercial crew and a big way? Like, okay, this vehicle is going to be the one. This is really exciting that a so close if they can they can fly a human rated spacecraft and take it up, and then bring it back that is like, okay, then then they're open for. Business at which point they will send people and that's the next one. So again, we're still looking like twenty nine could be the year where American space launches put astronauts back into space. So that would be good since it's been what twenty eleven was the last Bishop Lamont launch. It's been awhile then has eight years now, it's not not great Nygard at all is not the only space story, and of course, other vehicle the falcon heavy which flew last year as sort of a demo flight. We've talked some about they're getting customers signed on. And it seems like that could be the next month could actually be pretty soon. So no earlier than March seventh. It would be from Florida. Do you actually know if they can launch the falcon heavy from from Vandenberg? I don't know if they're launched facility. There can handle the heavy or not. I don't know. And I think traditionally the ones that are requiring the big heavy loads. Want to don't are either leaving the planet and winch case they want to be from Florida right because it's generally easier rather than being in a polar orbit. But I would imagine a can. But I don't know. I haven't heard any discussion of being launched from anywhere. But but Kennedy at this point, and this is the Arab sat six eight that they're gonna launch again. I imagine that being the second launch of hocken heavy there's a little bit of a discount because you get the sense. This is still considered kind of like early days risky somewhat experimental. They're going to do that mind-blowing thing where they launch the whole thing. And then the two side. Booster's come off and return back and land side by side. And they're once again going to try to land the central core on a ship out in the ocean. That didn't quite make it last time. But they're going to try that again and then on top of that. So the reason this is they were waiting for the government to file papers and get approval for this because there's like an approval process that you have to go through and they also filed for third falcon heavy mission. And the idea there is that they want to do a quick turnaround on the items that they used and as early as April which seems kind of ridiculously ambitious, but it is space x to do a an additional launch which would include some air force cargo as well as a solar sail demonstration from the planetary society, which is kinda cool, but that is going to require for the quick turnaround. It's gonna require them to land the boosters, I think to land that central core. So they can very quickly refurbished all and put it back out there. But they're this is what the trying to do is is demo the ability to launch and Reese. Michael falcon heavy which is great and being able to do it. So soon in the vehicles life. It's a testament to what they've been able to do with the falcon nine, and of course, these these cores are more or less falcon nine center one is beefed up a little bit. But it's it's billing on what they already know. And that's that's great. Like, I hope they have success in this and show that recycle recycling rockets isn't just for like, quote, unquote, little rockets, you can do it with serious heavy lift vehicles as well. And we have we have one last preflight update that is not from SpaceX at all it is. Instead from the outer reaches of the solar system, we do. So the the new horizons project again, we spoke by this data's going to come out slowly over the next while and some of that actually came out over the break, they they had some things out, but they're back now with a a new high res- image, and it's pretty incr-. Credible. So we spoke about this the day the day after the fly by about the the two lobes at ultimate too late. There's like a a light colored region where they connect, and you can see that really clearly in this image. But you can also see that whatever that might material is exist. Elsewhere this thing looks like it sort of piece together, and you can almost sort of sit back, and sort of squint your eyes a little bit and imagined that whatever this white material is sort of the glue holding it together like this is not a solid object. Right. It's believed actually that it's built up by several things. So they got pulled together by their own gravity, and this picture sort of can see that see how. We wouldn't it up there. But it is pretty remarkable image. And I think the clearest that we've seen so far. This was tweeted by John Hopkins, AP L just just a few days ago. Yeah. And it's there will be theoretically, there will be higher higher res- images that that are coming because this is pretty close, but it was not at the closest point of the fly by but so more to come. But getting a lot of detail on this very small object. But that they were also very close to. Yeah. So we finally the peanut or the snowman or whatever it is. It is I I lean more and more toward snowman. As the time goes on. But so, yeah, that's that is our preflight checklist. Prefer nice prefect prefect still get my arms around that one. Well, somebody suggested that we do at draft of ridiculous. Ridiculous acronyms from space. I feel like that's a brilliant idea. And we're going to have to do. That's a very good idea. I support drafts. By the way, this good podcasts. You should do them. You do everybody should do. All right. Let's take tell you about one of our sponsors to this week. This episode is brought to you by express VPN. 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VPN dot com slash off for three extra months free with a one year package. Thanks to express VPN for sporting lift and all of relax him. So Jason us. Oh this store. You put in here about rotation at Saturn to what's going on here. Yeah. This is a story that would seem easy also seems ridiculously hard. And it's because of a matter of perspective. So who would think that there would be a story in the year twenty nineteen where scientists are figuring out the rotation of a planet in our solar system. Right. Like, we can see Exo planets. We got we got we're flying by Kuyper belt objects. We're looking for planet nine there's all of this stuff going on. And then they're Saturn which kind of featureless ball like the rings are great. But the Saturday it self is kind of featureless ball. It's hard with a gas giant especially to tell like what is the rotation is at the clouds at the equator isn't clouds higher up is at the the core. There's also kind of like the slushy icy part. Like, would you consider that the like how how often that turns around is that it? So there's been great debate about the actual rotate. Nation of Saturn. And the story came out in this past week where scientists have teased out with a view is the most precise and accurate rotation of Saturn ever. And what they did was they measured Ossetians of tiny particles in the rings of Saturn in the innermost ring, the create these spiral wave patterns that form that can be measured and basically the can the period of that. And what they're measuring is what the heavy part in the middle of Saturn is is rotating, and they can see the pattern and they came up with ten hours thirty three minutes and thirty eight seconds of rotation. So great, congratulations to them. Problem solved. Except except when we'll put a Lincoln in the show notes to this story by Phil Phil plate scifi wire. The note I have down here is have you ever really looked at your hand man like. What is a day? Really? Is it like the the cloud tops or the ice of the core the magnetic field? What is there really a day on a gas giant, man? And it really is a can of worms. It's like what you know. What how you define it? Like, it's not the concept of day, basically is invented by. You know us on our little rocky planet that we live on where the Little Rock spins around. But on a gas giant, even a nice giant like, it's different. It's complicated. It's not it's not the same kind of concept. And once you think about how we define what a day is. It does get really interesting. So it is a can of worms. But this is a very clever result using very careful observations mostly from Cassini, I think of these operations in the innermost ring of Saturn, which gives them a totally different kind of resulted a very very accurate result. That is probably how the. The, you know main mass at the center of Saturn is spinning. Yeah. And he kinda route off like how do you pick the metric redefined this? But it could even be the true that it spends faster or slower at the center. Then does the cloud tops, right? Like, you can't sure like you just stick your finger in somewhere like, oh, it's a day because it's going this fast here. That's not true everywhere. And these planets are so different from our own. It's like you said the definitions we have the language we have described in a rocky planets. That's not universal. These things are different. I was thinking about this. I read this article and then saw tweet. Marking this week marks the thirty third year. Of NASA Voyager passing urine us and a always forget that was the same week of the challenger disaster. The same week you were born. That's true happy thirty third birthday. Thanks. Thank you. But we, you know. You really summed of exactly what I was thinking. We know an increasing amount about Exo planets and about all of these far flung things, but we have our own neighbors in the solar system where with your we've were there once a fiber with Voyager thirty three years ago that has been it it, you know, we talked about this with other guests outer socialism, planetary expiration takes time it takes money, and there's nothing stopping us from going except time and money. And I for one thing that we need to revisit our neighbors out there in the outer solar system urine Neptune ice the ice. Giants are very interesting. They may be more common kind of planets in the galaxy than we really understood at the time and both of them. We just kind of like scooted past with Voyager, and that's it. So I agree with you. I mean, we talked about. Not spending as much time on Venus and all of that. But like our solar system. That's a good example. We have done a lot understandably with Jupiter and Saturn. But I agree with you urine us and Neptune or vote both very interesting. Interesting moons and interesting planets, and there are things we could learn and it does seem shame that. I mean, his great that we did that fly by don't get me wrong that grand tour fly by was great. But the fact that there's been no follow up to those planets. It would be great. If that happened. I don't know if anybody's proposing something like that. But wouldn't it be nice to have some sort of a maybe you build to and you send one to each of them. I don't know. But it'd be nice to get something in orbit to the could do detailed science 'cause we got the fly by, but that's all and and get the kind of science that we get from something like Cassini at at Saturn or all the different, you know, Jupiter probes that we've had over the years to you know, that would that would be nice to have something in system and. Yeah. We thirty three years too long. Yeah. There was actually a joint. Nasa ISA urine Pathfinder mission that had been proposed by group in the United Kingdom that would have used the atlas five basically to to launch a probe to go. Spend time you're in a system and it. Didn't really go anywhere as we know because we would have actually known about this before I some googling define like as anybody actually tried. This is a is a low, I guess it's a low desire on the the larger community to do this. But a urine us orbiter was proposed as part of the Decatur survey. And yet. Nothing has come of it. So I guess there's some talk about a mission in the twenty twenties. But like, it's basically just kind of floating around out there, which is frustrating. It is maybe one day. I'd love to have an episode of the show where we talk about that. But today's not grey day if there's going to be triple digits for sure. Not the next the next six months. We we do need to talk talking about expiration on other planets, we need in with opportunity on Mars JPL had an article this week looking and talking about the basically the time line of what's left to do to try to to wake opportunity up. See fortuity can contact us. You know, as a little recap in June of twenty eighteen there was a planet white dust storm that is believed basically just covered the solar powered Rover like, you know, curiosity is it has a nuclear power plant. So it can survive these dust storms as long as to cold. It'll be okay. But when you're solar-powered you can't deal with a bunch of dust, and there was hope that maybe a windy vent or something could could clear the dust off enough that it could wake up that is actually happened in the past. But seems like maybe that's not going to be. How the story ends. So this interview also in the New York Times about this JPL NASA have doing what they call sweep. And beep, which is a side note is like a great name for a project a sucker for things that rhyme. I guess, but the idea here's basically sinning commands and waiting for it to respond, and that's been going on now for a little while I was gonna continue for seven more weeks looking at the x band radio that may failed, but there's also issues potentially like with the internal clock. But maybe that opportunity is awake, and it may be can even receive this. But they can't it can't send a message backout due to an issue with internal clock or the or the onboard computer could have a fault. So it's it's annot. We may never know. But it seems like we're getting towards the end of an opportunity to to find this thing it I did good, right? Yeah. Because the the winter is coming again where it is. And that is that's not good. No. It's I like the idea that they've tried all normal things. So now, they're getting the wacky ideas of what if the radio's failed with the clock is wrong where listening at the wrong time, and they're trying that, but they're running out of hope, they're they're sending this little messages in a bottle of like if you get this. This is what the time actually is. And this is what you should do just hoping that it'll hear them, but it may just be a goner. And and if so it will have, you know, lasted far more than anybody expected to denigrate job, but trying to to to wake it up. But it may be maybe end, and that would be okay in the end. Yeah. Yeah. I mean it landed fifteen years ago that was heck of a run for something that was supposed to last ninety days. Yeah. Exactly. Right. It's been longer than ninety days for sure. Yeah. Success checks of success. Yeah. So I think we're gonna keep an eye on on this story. But it seems like NASA JPL sort of coming around to the fact that this may be this may be over. There are also a couple of stories I want to talk about some other private space companies. So we talked about SpaceX for a little while. Of course, they're not the only ones virgin galactic, and it's crazy via says unity and its base to and like all the stuff they're doing. They have moved. Into more thorough testing. They have an item space tourism and other things coming up very soon and have laid off some staff to what the company says, it's basically to realign and prepare for commercial operation. So this this article made the rounds a couple of days ago, and it marks like five percent of the overall workforce about forty people or so it's not a big company. I was actually surprised. It's small-size, honestly. But seems like those those staff those positions were maybe more involved in the in the engineering and testing side of things and that winds down and flights with paying customers. I guess start to spin out. There's just weren't needed anymore. Every time a cover this. We talk about this in tech to it's always sad to talk about layoffs. Oh, a sad talk about people losing their jobs, but it is part of a part of this ecosystem of these companies that are doing things very rapidly and trying to implement new things like spaceship to is sort of a crazy deal, and they seem to be making adjustments as they go as they as they near that that future see for themselves. Yeah. We talked about this last time with SpaceX the same thing that they're there. It's kind of a natural. It's actually a sign of maybe maturity in the commercial space outfits that they're doing this. Because. I don't think it's necessarily that they're doing badly, but that they're changing gears and also that there's so much going on that they have to react to what's happening in the rest of the industry, the other one I think is maybe maybe more interesting because what you just said to straddle which is based Seattle member. It was created by Microsoft co founder Paul Allen who passed away last year, they had a program the base that they were like the world's largest airplane. And this plane was designed to serve as a launch pad for rocket. So we've seen this with a couple of NASA missions even talking about virgin galactic second ago. Basically, you fly a rocket into the upper atmosphere where the air is thinner and drive it from the plane and it lights, and you don't have to worry about going through the lower atmosphere and all the fuel fuel makes it heavier. You know, that that sort of cycle to get off the ground. You can lessen it severity. If you launch from the atmosphere. Self but straddle is backing off some of that as well. They've laid off fifty people or so they say, it's an I'm quoting streamlining strategy just just a real fun phrase. I guess, but they were they had a program to develop a new type of rocket engine like a new line of rockets to us with this large airplane. And it seemed like that program has been doubt back a bit. Yeah. I read a story about this that was making use other people's rockets. So they're not giving up on the concept, but they are not going to build their own straddle on rocket to launch on under. They're playing there. They're still going with the plane thing the Chinese other people's rockets. I did read a story that is a little more negative towards straddle on suggesting that their business model in as other competitors come online that are offering launch capabilities that are cheaper. It is making it harder for them to make the case because their whole idea. Was this is cheaper way to launch? Right because you can do it from the upper upper reaches of the atmosphere, but it sounding like other competitors are making that tougher for them. And that that there may be a question about the overall business model, and now that straddle on doesn't have Paul Allen kind of there to give the thumbs up that that it's his family, and it's unclear what they destination for all of his all his companies is going to be that once, you know, I worked at a company like this once the billionaire who is in charge is gone. The people who pick up the pieces are gonna make different decisions than the than the billionaire would. Yeah, I think that's right on. I mean, you look at something like blue origin or SpaceX again with a billionaire leader. There's a very clear vision from that leader, maybe not SpaceX, but there's some sort of vision. But everybody Mars, everyone will be saved. But yeah, I think that's that's always a risk with these companies that you know. You know, you see it in NASA. Right. We've talked about this bunch where administration changes and all of a sudden during demars stuff gets packed away. Putting a closet and we talk about going to the moon again. And would eventually go nowhere because it's just ping pong between goals. Private companies are immune from that to a degree, right? Like, if they work with NASA work with other agencies that could affect our business, but they can have a goal and push towards that goal without the goal changing unless they just decide that it changes. I so blue origin. Jeff bezos. They're building blue origin at two at. I be space tourism stuff, right? That just had a test launch a couple of weeks ago. And every third sentence was about the beautiful windows in the capsule. How's the biggest windows in his capsule, blah blocks? That's what they're doing. They wanna do space towards them first. But bazo sees that as a way to fund and to work out the kinks and a platform where blue origin can become like the AWS of space. If you need to launch something you just go to them, and they do it for you. Right. That's where he wants to be a pretty clear vision and they've been working knocking down milestones. As they go towards that. That vision. But you know, when that person leaves or something happens like you said that that can be called into question. Now start launch has has some good ideas. I think clearly they have engineering and manufacturing skills that are valuable they've this airplane. They've built is just absolutely wild. But maybe they've decided that could shed some of it or like, you said go to go to Jeff basis or whoever it's a, hey, you know, we want to to give you an opportunity to you know, we can work at this other way too. So it's a story to keep an eye on you know, I never really knew where to categorize straddle launch before just because there's there's so different from some of these other companies, but I think it'll be interesting to keep an eye on them and see where these chips fall is this continued to be. A company that they're they're pushing this this air platform or the sort of quietly fade over time. Yeah. Well, y watch it. But this is the competition. Right. They're going to be winners losers. There's a lot of competition for access to space, which is great because there's going to be more access space than ever, and it's going to be cheaper than ever. But some of them aren't gonna make it and the same is going to be true of access space for Taurus. So, you know, what is it going to blue origin or or version are they going to quickly blow through the number of people who are willing to spend six figures on, you know, very brief bid of weightlessness, or is there going to be an ongoing industry or are they going to have to, cultivate, it and move onto the next thing and spend more money. It's all kind of mystery. I think that's why the blue origin business plan seem so smart to me that like right space tourism is not going to be forever. But it's going to be for the one percent. But as many people as could afford it like a very small percentage, but want to do it and they're going to have options. Like, that's not a way, I don't think to build a sustainable company that's gonna last fifty years, but. If you use that to get people in the door, and then you do bazo says he wants to do, and you become basically, a utility to get things and people into space, then you know, you can move from one of the other and survive. So you know, any company that's saying just base towards them always looking for. Okay. But what about past that because that is not a an my mind, at least I could be wrong. But in my mind, not something you could build on for decades. And. Be sustainable, but maybe I'm wrong. But it feels to me like that's not enough to keep a business. It's this large this expensive to run your manufacturing rockets and Motors, and this is all extremely expensive. And I don't know if it's could be funded just through some like rich dudes, go into lower orbit. Maybe. But I think so I get my money Jason as we've no, no, it'd be need to be a lot cheaper. And by that. I mean, it's basically they're never gonna. My belong here on the ground. Yeah. I might need a new car instead like seriously, or or to fix something in my house or to pay for my kids to go through college. It's not I you know, it is just you think about that like space tourism stuff is being kind of parade of people with lots and lots and lots of money, and that's great. But you know, that's going to be a tiny tiny set of people in and we are not them. All right. We're gonna talk a little bit more couple more stories, but won't tell you about our second sponsor this week. This episode of lift-off is brought to you by our friends at casper. Casper is the company focused on sleep. And they're dedicated to making you exceptionally comfortable one night at a time. This this number seems wild to me. But it's true. We spent a third of our life asleep. 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Casper has a hassle free return policy. So my wife, and I've had a casper for many years now. And we really love it. So here in the south it gets hot in the summer. Hot and humid and the winter it gets pretty cold. And the casper is comfortable year round. You know, our old matches like in the summer, you kind of sank into it. Too much is not not comfortable. Casper is great year round. You can get fifty dollars towards select mattresses by visiting casper dot com slash liftoff. And using the offer code liftoff at checkout. Terms and conditions apply. That's casper dot com. I slipped off and the offer code liftoff to get fifty dollars towards select mattresses. We think casper for their support of this show and relax him. So we talked about the government shutdown how that affected launches and ongoing missions. But it also affected the day of remembrance. So at the end of January every year that moves around a little bit. But the end of Jane. Ury NASA marks it's a new day of remembrance because you have three missions three disasters. Really at the end of January so January twenty seventh nineteen sixty seven was Apollo one. As you mentioned earlier, January twenty eighth nineteen eighty six seven astronauts, also lives poor challenger, and then February first two thousand three seven more aboard Columbia's at broke apart part during re entry so NASA honors these fun, astronauts in their families. At this event every year, and Brian Stein said a letter last week saying that due to shut down in a lot of employees were furloughed bunch also working without pay. We we heard from a couple of different people giving stories of that. But he wanted the NASA family to be together. So they postponed. There's a date yet. I looked today couldn't find one, but these are normally held at the astronaut memorial foundation space mirror, which is at Kennedy Space Center visitor complex. If you've never seen this action links in the show notes, you should look at pictures of it. It's really a beautiful spot. They also hold events at Arlington National Cemetery. Where some of the astronauts are buried memorials are in place there for challenger in Columbia, and a there's an Apollo one memorial. That's in the works to be at Arlington, as well, which I think is is really awesome. And quite frankly, drastically overdue. So I just bring this up one to Mark this occasion. Because I think it's important to talk about this when it comes around, but these sort of shutdowns, they affect lots of people, lots of different ways. And there are lots of stories about the news. But this is like another example of how it affected this corner of the the federal government. Yeah. And it is a memorial is beautiful. And it is I wish you happy birthday before. Unfortunately, your birthday does coincide with the this. This is the people don't believe it. When I tell them like within a week is the anniversary of all of the NASA fatalities. So I had a I wanted to mention a couple of things I recently read bringing Columbia home by line, Bach and ward will put Lincoln the show notes hard read tough tough read, but a good book about the recovery effort in Texas and Louisiana of the Columbia because of course, the Columbia broke apart on reentry and scattered its debris field over an enormous area. And if you've ever wondered sort of like, how did they find I forget what it's like a third of the of the mass of the shuttle they picked up off the ground in Texas and Louis. Zena and brought back to Florida and the symbol d-. In a in a warehouse, basically. And they recovered the bodies of the astronauts, and so it's it's grim. And yet it's also a really kind of amazing story about how they put together the logistics of this mission and working with the people in Texas and people from NASA and grieving astronauts and the whole thing. And so if you're thinking about this if you're pondering this sort of stuff, that's that's a good read. Like, I said, it's the subject matter. It's very it's difficult, but it is a well-done, and I'll recommend something that I've mentioned on here before which is a TV movie starring William hurt as Richard Feynman called the challenger disaster. Which is about the challenger accident investigation board and what they discovered about the cause of the challenger. And I am happy to report that that TV movie is on Amazon. So it's not for it's not free on Amazon prime video you have to buy it. But it's it's you can just buy just the movie for. I think it's like two or three bucks. And I liked it. It's a good movie, and you know, Feinman is at the center of it. But it's it's an interesting view into the the period of in eighty six at NASA. And so if your mind is is focused on those. I wish I had a good Apollo one thing to recommend feel like I man deals with Apollo one bit the rang Gosling movie that I think is just now out for people to watch at home and from the to the moon, which is that great miniseries produced by Tom Hanks that is I think only available if you can go find the DVD somewhere, and I was really hoping would maybe get remastered and released this year for the fiftieth anniversary of the moon landing. But that's doesn't seem to have happened yet. Anyway, they have an Apollo one episode. That's that's good in that set. But that's that's what I could come up with in terms of sort of like for further reading about these the the events. That lost the lives of these seventeen. Astronauts also have in the show notes an episode of lift-off episode nine where we talked about no shuttle. Yeah. A long long time ago, we talked about the shuttle, and we touched on these disasters. And that I think it's important we need to go into them in more detail. Probably, but I think so yeah, there's a lot of material the movies great Breen Columbia home. Is is great as well. So they've got you got some homework. You wanna go? Learn more about these. Yeah. Well, I think that does it. I think that brings us to the end. Yeah. That's episode ninety. It's it's gone. It's gone so fast, but there's a lot again, I'll put out as I point out before and often we were worried that there wouldn't be stuff to talk about on liftoff. So that is not a problem. The if you want to find links and stuff articles things we've talked about head over to the website relay data fem. So I lift off slash ninety while you're there you can get in touch. You can follow linked to the tumbler page where we post links between episodes. Of course, you can find us on Twitter. Jason is j Snell, and you can find me there as I s m. H until our next four Nigerian say goodbye. My body audio.