The Tim McKernan Show Ep. 309 Timothy J. McKernan
Yes yes welcome into the current show on the inside S. T. L. podcast network. I'm your host Timothy Michael mckernan and today our guest assed presented by mark. Hanna of Evergreen Wealth Strategies is my father. this This is the background ground on how this came to pass. I truly never thought about having my dad is a guest. Few people asked about it is dead now. I'm not that's so you know that's I appreciate that. That's flattering but It's not something that I wanNA do. I think we'd probably will both wind up weeping and You know just don't really WanNa WanNa do it and just kind of immediately just kind of dismissed it and people said go to over and then it kept coming up and then I kept saying well. We both wind up weeping. And I don't really want to do that and then a few people I said you know I wish I could hear my dad's voice. I wish I would have interviewed my dad. I wish I would have interviewed with my mom. I wish I would have audio of my grandmother or grandfather telling their story and that that line line of thought is what led to this interview today. I certainly want to hear my dad's story and so he obviously tells it in this podcast but I felt a responsibility really Into have my son who is too and my brother's daughters Who are all under the age of Eight? This moment and My brother Kevin's son. Who will be turning to shortly all be able to hear his story as well and and potentially their children so once it was presented that way and it was presented? That's the thing about debating baiting so to speak in. This wasn't really a debate. But if you just lay out your point and you don't start getting personal or whatever with within salt and not that there would be any reason for the insults on this but the the people were presenting it in a very well think about it this way and then I think about it from that and it changed my mind here. We are and so that that that led to was a discussion on questions from the audience. I shouldn't say discussion. This was one of the days where I was in my basement. Pete was not with me where I was saying. You know what I think I'm going to do it for the reasons I stated and then I was just kind of expounding while thinking about it. I thought to myself. How great would it be it for all the podcasting? I do driving around and I can play an interview with my grandfather or from my grandmother or you know what if I didn't interview with my mom and dad and wife after we went to game seven of the two thousand eleven seven world series all of these different things that you can and then catch the and listen to that and how that will lift you up how you can play that like if my dad went to the sixty seven world series for example. He's twenty years old at the time and he can talk about. I would think that'd be the greatest thing in the world and so this was we just kind of like you. You know stumbled into this but then I talked about that on the podcast and then a couple of people email me about being interested me interviewing their parents or grandparents. And then I've talked about it on the podcast and the fan page and now it's led to I've done three interviews with family members that are not going to be made public And then there are six more scheduled and it's it's turned into something which is thrilling. And I find myself you know when and we have somebody who is An athlete former athlete a broadcast or former broadcaster politician former politician. Whatever the case might be who we've had in over the course of the two and a half two years to three months of this show I I'm really not nervous. I don't really think that's necessarily surprising. But I mean mean it Bhai saying you know this is what I this is what I do. And it's what I've done for twenty years at this point so maybe it would would be. I guess if I had the president coming in it might be a different deal. But you know it's going to be a conversation and you know if somebody's agreed to come into studio that they know they've set the time aside. If I were like doing this down at Busch Stadium I don't know if I would say sad. Be Nervous but it would have some form of anxiety because it's not set up but in this case everybody knows what they're here for and I think at this point people know what kind of style L. The discussion is going to be. It's going to be conversational sacking to be back and forth but what it tells me is that you know I it. There isn't a lot of pressure pressure so to speak when I have somebody contact me to interview a loved one. I feel responsibility Because this person one is going to entrust us with helping tell the story of someone they love so much that they are bringing being the person in to record their life story and their wisdom. That's that that is a bigger deal to me. These are bigger deals to me than the normal interviews views for which the podcast is has become known And so you know from three we've done we've gotten this immediate feedback feedback from the people who purchased it by saying my grandfather two cases and father and another case was was so happy with it so happy he did it but then also said it was surprised how comfortable they got which to me is my. That's my responsibility. Because that's what's going to to get people to tell their stories and so I really am. I'm really invested in this Again it's without question. I you never want to like act like it's not without question it's it's it's potentially anyway it's a business however There's the word I keep using his responsibility. Possibility there's responsibility on this. I have you know I have Duty of sorts to make sure that that I delivered to the people who want me to do this. A product that is worthy of the person they love time and story. Sorry and It's a different type of Feeling the new in the podcast or doing TMA. But it's also in. Maybe it's maybe it's a bit miscalculation but it's also something that Is More fulfilling actually as much as I love doing team as much as I love interviewing. Take your pick of the guest we've had on the PODCAST uncast because th- whereas when take your pick of you know name whomever who has been on the podcast When they're done with the interview I would imagine by the time? They're driving home that they're not even thinking about it anymore But when When somebody he comes in here to do this for them it's it's something that Is a big deal. Because they're coming into a studio it's it's you know it's an important interview for their friends and their family and I've got a responsibility to to to help. Tell their story get them comfortable and tell their story so so It's become something that you know was. It was an accident in the sense of how it's how it's been formed but It's it's something something that we're now now doing and if you are interested in it Email me at t mckernan it. Inside UN T. L. DOT com. But I I love doing it. That's the thing I love doing because part part of it I do. You know if I'm sitting with somebody who's played a sport or broadcasting career served in office whatever I have an idea of what their stories and and I'm just kind of you know when they a when they stop off at an exit then bring them back on the interstate and we go down the road until we get to the next exit. But I know where we're going because I know the story asked his many many the people in the audience with these circumstances With these circumstances I don't know the story and so I'm learning as I'm conducting the conversation so And I also feel a major responsibility to to give the people who've contacted me the best possible product product so that element is in it and so that brings us to my father And the reason my father is a guest on the podcast cast and people are asking. I guess I I guess I didn't really follow up with a y but is because You know it's kind of been a running joke doc on the radio show that That he got me my jobs and he Was owns owns the station in the parking. Lots and lots of kind of running joke. The truth is my father. Was the General Sales Manager Caffeine. As from ninety eight two thousand four and I would describe him is mostly retired but he is a salesman through and through and for any of you who knows sales people through and through. They never really stopped selling so so he enjoys making calls for advertising. Still even though he hasn't done at full time for a number of years In for me I knew there were some elements of his life that certainly shaped his adult life and I learned some things that I didn't know and I found that in each one of these interviews. I've done so far by the way that each person has said well. I've never said this before. I don't think my children know this and so I found I. You know I mean I bill here when we're talking about going that happened. I had no idea that happened so I think over the course of this interview you you will get a sense as to why my dad is so beloved by people in Saint Louis in the sales community in the respect he has. You can hear it you can hear it. Even though he's not in a pitch you can hear the pitch so to speak and And then also you know raising four kids. I'm the the oldest of four And some career life decisions. He had some that. I've never really talked about with him but I look back on it and I go. Wow that was was you know I. Didn't you know now that I'm looking at it from now. Being you know forty three I get a chance to ask about So you'll get an idea of my father's as a personality and I thought during the week of the weeks the holidays. I thought this would be the the best time to share this one so presented by mark. Hanna of Evergreen Wealth Strategies. Ladies and gentlemen here is my Father Timothy j mckernan all right dad. Let's take in. Let's take in welcome into the studio. Yeah First Time I've been here Tim. I'm kind of excited to be here and be part of this This drama this morning. The Lot of drama so the audience requested you come in which And then I've said that I'm going to do this interview. And then a bunch of people said they were really excited to hear it you When I texted you about that asked if we'd run out of guests well? I did say that Tim because I figured. Why is Tim? Want me to be on this. PODCAST ABC guest decided to be here proud to be here In the in there's one of my favorite things to do is talk about myself so I guess that's where I inherited uh-huh that's how we built the show for fifteen absolutely so I'm probably GonNa learn some things that I don't know but I know that it all started on September September fifth nineteen forty seven In South Saint. Louis that's the. That's that's what I ever. We know to be correct. The case the son of Dr Bernard mckernan and Dorothy Kennedy mckernan right. And where were you born. I was born in Saint Louis. Maternity Hospital I was the third of four siblings. My brother burn is the oldest my sister Kathleen is second. Can't I'm number three and my sister. Maureen is number four. All right we. My Mom and Dad had babies in the thirties forties and fifties fifties Just like I'd never thought about that though. Yeah and then just like your mom and I had babies in the seventies eighties and nineties I don't think I'm going to be able to carry that one on. I don't really have any interest in doing it either. So that one will stop with with you guys so And I mean I know that Your Dad was a dentist right but And I know he went to Saint. Louis you high right where I went you see right but What can you tell me about his? Your Dad is we'll get to died when you were sixteen correct. I was sixteen. But what can you tell me about. my grandfather your father well Very quiet guy. So doesn't take after you and I guess him but Very Smart Man Was the head oral surgeon for the city of Saint Louis and he did that so my mom would have some kind of retirement in case C.. Would pass away So he had gone to the clinic every morning. to take care of people that couldn't afford Dentistry back in the fifties and sixties. And then he would go to his own private private practice at grand and Arsenal And I was just thinking about this the other day. The name of the building that he was His practice was was the TAM building which isn't very interesting. I've driven by it impre- sure it was torn down. Probably okay so I always thought it was just to the south of Tower Grove Park. Would it be Handle south of tar grow okay just torn down and subsequently gently torn down. Got It And so I didn't really know him that well Tim the only thing I really i. You know I was a kid ED growing up. I can tell you this at sixteen when you lose your dad like I did It was it was hard because at that age. Is You know you have a lot of questions in your mind. A lot of things going on with yourself and things like that and You know my dad would have always been there for me. He he worked an awful lot. we you know. They grew up in the depression. Both of them We were raised differently than people are. Raised nowadays and My Dad one of the things I remember most about my father is. He coached my baseball team in sixth grade. Saint Raphael Saint Raphael's it feels and And that was one of the things that was the highlight of my life that he He reels my baseball team really. Yeah you started charted on the lows in correct start on the lows east of Hampton right. If I'm not say Hampton Okay and then when did you move to bishops place. Almost install for life after that. Right my my dad and mom bought a brand new house on bishops which is like what like eighth a mile away from Saint Raphael's not far And it was built in nineteen fifty by a company called Higginbotham and Probably the A little bit Shorter walk than you had to saint. Gabriel's Tam But You know it was Blaming compete for your phone ringing in that way I can throw him under the bus. That's what a good so any layer does is so anyway he We We lived there. I was I believe three years old when we moved there. My brother burn was in seventh grade at Saint Raphael's after he left. Saint Mary Magdalen My Sister Kathleen Lien was like in third grade and And Maureen my sister. Maureen was born in Nineteen fifty two and I remember July first nineteen sixty four. The Day my dad passed away I was getting up around eleven o'clock in the morning and he knocked on the door and he said. Are you just getting up. Tim And I said Yeah Dad and he said I got this meeting this afternoon. Do you think you could shine my shoes for me. And I guess he knew I was pretty good at that going to a military high school so I shined shoes form and He left that The afternoon and never came home. died of a heart attack. died of a heart attack at a Saint Appalachia meeting which is probably it was is out in West County not far from where your mom Grew up and he He complaining complained that he wasn't listen. Feeling real good at the meeting one other dentist with other dentists dentist there and And one of the things that was interesting there was a Catholic priests there too and so my dad was a big believer said the rosary every morning on his way to church on his way to work and then subsequently Believed in in Going to first Fridays. Where you'd always have appreciate your side when you passed away so anyway You know it was It was a a growing up experience for me when my dad died I I knew An interesting point my mom used to say is I'm out with Lil. Musial feel who lived up the street from US changing slid right by you rub. Shanties was right behind Mary. shadings and Audrey Garagiola lived up the street and my mom and Audrey Joola in Mary shadings and Lil musial all were Part of The Our Lady of Snows House and they went over to Belleville Illinois and my mom probably about a month later said. I'm out with Lil amount with Mary out with Audrey and a month later. I'm working in a famous Bar Because my sister was twelve I was sixteen And your life changes and And and so I grew up and and from that point on I was driven. I was driven to be successful as I could possibly be. And we're card. You know what do you remember about that. Specific Day. The phone call finding out the ensuing days. I was walking into the House that night after being out with some my buddies and the phone rang and I answered the phone like I always did Dr mckernan's residents and You know My mom goes who is that Tim and I said hold on a minute and she goes Oh. I wish her dad was here. One of our neighbors is was on the Johnny Carson Show and it was Joe Garagiola and she goes. Oh I wish her dad was here. He'd enjoy this Blah Blah Blah and. I said well hold on and Dr Burns said. Get your mom for me We hit him and I said I'm sorry doctor I said to hold on him and he goes. No He's better than that. Get Your your sister Kathleen and so carefully and it was a patient his as an orthodontist and she came to the phone I watched her on the phone with him and she turned white white. Real White Ashes looking and She said Hung up and she said hey everybody we have to go Getting a car right away. DAD's sick and we have to meet him out of County Hospital. Well we had no idea where county hospital was. We all jumped in the car. Dr stopped a police off the whole family. Everybody and everybody was there. Yeah my brother. My sisters my mom myself jump in the car police. He's officer was at the bright by by happenstance right there at Chippewa and Jameson in and we asked him where county hospital was and he said. I'll take you there. Because we said our father was ill and he said follow us. And we got to Brentwood Boulevard back in the day. That's where county hospital was and he said I can only go this far and so we went. There stopped parts of the car and walked up the steps and a bunch of dentists were there and they grabbed all of us and said Your Dad passed away. Oh Wow so. They told old Miami Kathy that that he was sick. Ideology Pass away at sheet. Hold a he doctor burn told and Kathy that he he had passed away. Oh he did on the phone said. Don't say anything once. She knew she knew that's why she turned white. She she knew she. She didn't want to tell you guys right really. I never knew that yes. I think they didn't know right. Wow Okay right. Have you ever talked with her about that. I mean obviously because Camila and she and I asked her I said did you know that you she said I knew. And that's why I got so flushed. You know When I when I heard heard and he told her not to tell you guys he said be best not to say anything your mother okay so that they could tell that they could tell us so? We could make it out thirteen now now now. The deal You know and Acid he didn't know going out there. What were you thinking going out there? Do you remember I thought he was. I thought he he was sick sick. That maybe had my dad used to have to go get his blood thin every every month because he had harding at the arteries he's he was Fifty six years old when he died and so he He really Was Not a very healthy guy when he was born they said When he passed away they said the the doctor told us? They did an autopsy on him him and said that his body was the age of a man in his Mid To late seventy s while lot of smoking smoking and a lot of the budweisers really those guys back in the day I remember going downstairs and all the dentists would be down there having a meeting and you can hardly see them the Smith so have you that was like a fog down there unbelievable it really was and so what is it like in the ensuing. I mean you're what a sophomore or junior senior okay. I was young. Yeah you're young class well and my mom said that She he could afford to send me to school. But if I wanted to car or anything like that I'd have to get a job and so I went to WHO United Parcel Service when it was over on South West Avenue ups my senior. CBC TOWARDS THE END. I needed a job and so I went and applied physically over there to to get a job and and There was a man there earth his name. I'm sure he's passed away by now. This is nineteen sixty. Five is name was L. Smith and they said you need to talk to Mr Smith. I went over to Mr Smith. I said Mr Smith Tim mckernan Anita job. I'm starting school in the fall on a need to work and I heard they're paying like four dollars and thirty cents an hour which was a ton of money back in one thousand nine hundred sixty five and so I went up to him and I said And he looked at me as back then. The the heaviest weight of a package was fifty pounds and he looked at me away. One hundred fifteen and he goes. Can you lift fifty pounds. So yes sir I can lift fifty pounds. He said Oh you You really feel like you can do this I said Oh yes sir I can do it. He said well. I'M GONNA be on the shift tomorrow at Eleven o'clock doc at night and I want you to come in. See me you'll start and you'll be on from eleven to two and I said Oh Mr Smith I I really need more than three hours and he said. Oh Oh Timmy said then personally you come and see me. Two o'clock after you're done and I'll make sure I get you some more time so Levin to to that night I went to punch out and I saw Mr Smith and I hid from Mr Smith. I was a totally exhausted so I went to Went home that night. And they're about to fifteen to thirty and My mom heard me come in. And she turned on the light and she started crying. I was so beat up. I the white t shirt was black. My Tan Pants for black I was beat up and and so like I was told people. I'm not the brightest spoon in the drawer. I could do that for six weeks before I had to join the Union and subsequently my sister Kathleen was dating a young fellow at Saint. Louis University that was in pre dental school and She was working on her master's and Die Tadic's and he Well my sister's going to Maryville If your brother needs a job I understand. There's a job at channel eleven in the mail room and And she said he wouldn't be a tough job for him while he's going to school. You know he might be interested in applying. Thanks so one over to channel oven and I said how much you paying and they set a dollar an hour and I said oh I said well well I said I'm making four dollars and thirty cents an hour now and they said well you might want to stay there. I said I don't think I can. But it was one of those things in ref- reflecting collecting in my life especially for this little segment. We're doing today Tim I knew I want to be part of that. I walked in Ed Television Station and I knew I wanted to be part of this It just kind of like something. They're just made me feel feel like I'm I belong there and I had a great time there to live in the mail room at seventeen is that accurate work in the mail room. A channel seventeen where I was going to school. And you know it was I oh I did all the mail for the TV station and then was interesting. I ran over the chase hotel and did all the meal for the chase. Oh Tony know that cause channel eleven. I'm sure people listening to this. Might not be aware. Was it the chase for weights inception until what like a decade fifteen years. It was. Yeah it was it was there the studios were there It was right next door it was owned by the copper family. Thus you take the vows out of Ktar TV and you have hip hop ler and so then that became basically my second family. I got to know Mr Cobbler. God Addresses Soul Herald Cobbler by picking up his mail. I knew Ted because Ted and I worked together in the Promotion Department and Ted was the parent of the television station and we became pretty good friends and and I had somewhat. I guess pretty outgoing personality even back then and There was a general manager called Mr Mike McCormick he was I Gentleman and try worked for was a fellow named Saul Saul Rosenzweig and he was from New York. And then Mike McCormick came from Milwaukee Wisconsin. I believe and Mike liked me and He thought that I could do something in the television business. But at at time as you guys know historically in Vietnam was roaring and And my mom was very concerned that I was going to be drafted out of school and go into the military military and right after she just lost her husband and yes and my dad had just passed away and she was very concerned learned about that and so she was fishing around to find out if there is any opportunities. I was ready to sign. I wanted to get that out of the way and come back to school And I wanted that not hanging over my head and so I I kinda did sufficient around myself and I took the test for the Naval Reserve and I passed that but that was a year of active duty I heard the international guard was only only a four month commitment and then you go to a meetings for the next four five and a half plus years or Whatever so I took the test test for the international guard and It was like taking an act test. It was not an easy test was three hours I I passed it a lot of the guys who are ahead of me. Plenty of guys ahead of me on the list. DidN'T WANNA leave for Thanksgiving or Christmas to go. The basic training which was Lackland Air Force Base in San Antonio Texas and so I I said Hey I'll go So I took a leave from school and went to San Antonio Texas and did basic training there for six weeks and then a Lotta guys went they call call it tech schools and things like that. I was lucky enough to come back to Saint Louis and do my tech school in the supply section of the Air Force out there at Lambert field but The first week I'm back I first day I'm back I come back and meet some guys. I'm over Bush. School play basketball and I sprained my ankle. Really bad up all night Had to go down to the mark building you get an examination the nation they said. Well you're you're you have to stay on. You have to come here every other day in. Have Your your Your ankle wrapped and ear ear. you're confined to your your your quarters. Which is my house so I was blessed? I was very lucky. I was on active duty during the Vietnam War for four months. We were the only tactical fighter wing. I was part of the hundred and thirty. First Tactical Fighter Wing we were the only tactical fighter wing wing not activated for Vietnam. Did you have a lot of friends. Excuse me who are getting drafted. I mean what was that. What was that time less? A lot of guys were being drafted And I was early for the lottery so I was in school. I could've stayed except that. I wanted to get that out of the way I just didn't want that hanging over my head So I had a friend of mine who happens to be the cousin of the former mayor. Danny Sleigh who subsequently is now retired police officer he took my spotty body channel. Eleven in in the mail room and he He did a great job while I was gone so good that they wanted to promote me when I got back they were so assets back and Dan knows he always says I made your career for you so anyway so they promoted you. I've always wondered how you went from the mailroom to sales I is is that what happened. You didn't you. Went to motion the mailroom too. I heard there was more money in film editing and you know mechanical illiterate that was data about three weeks. Then they put me in the Promotion Department then from there traffic department all the time going to school Then I got into sales service which was really good tim because it taught me how to do the billing and things like that for all the accounts were on the air now the only nationally but locally and we got a national rep that sold things out of Chicago New York. La Philadelphia Then then After school I got the opportunity to get involved in sales and It's an interesting. I won't mention any names because there are still people in Saint Louis and related these people but there wasn't a count handled a bunch of business on k. p. l. RTD and It bill that account Agency build a million dollars a year on the TV station and and There was like three or four other salesman there but they are older than me. I was like twenty one twenty two years old and they. They didn't want this account. I couldn't and believe it. Well it was the discount and commission at that time our draw. We had a penalty. Draw one hundred and seventy five dollars a week. Now one hundred and seventy five dollars a week was pretty darn good money back and that day and but you had to cover it with with your sales so there was no guaranteed guarantee. Was If you if you there for three months and you didn't cover that draw you or eliminated. They bring somebody else in so I looked at this account. I'm going. Hey listen you know I got a discounted great but it's GonNa cover my draw. I'll do this thing. It was this individual they said is very very hard. He's very tough and he's demanding as it should be. I guess he's built a million dollars a year but they painted this picture of this individual that he was very tough to work with and so I went out to his office. That Next week to introduce myself toy and I walked in and the receptionist said There's a Tim mckernan here to see you. And he said send him back and I walked back to his office and I I was. I was trembling and He said Who are are you? I said my name's Tim mckernan. And he said What station you with? I said Cape Pilar. TV Channel. Evan he shook his head and he got up from behind his desk and he came over to me and he said you know something Tim you and I are along very very well. Nice Sir Surrey. I hope so. I'm going to do a great job for you. I'm GonNa work so hard for you. Anything you need Blah Blah Blah. Well he said you know why we're GONNA get along so well. I said no sorry Lisa because I can very few men. I can stand face to face with and screaming their face Tyson. WE'RE OFF I. I am twenty years and he liked to scream at me and he fired me off his account several times he but After I left channel eleven he jumped a little bit ahead of where we are but the guy turned around one day and cut invited me out there to talk to him about some accounts. And I'll never forget mom had just had Mara and And he said that are you. Okay Tim Financially said yesterday. I'm fine thank you Bob. Obliged to all hold on a minute you turn around and he wrote a check a big check to me and said I want you to take care of yourself and take care of your family. You deserve every dime. I'm giving you an I took the tack check and it was a uh a good chunk of money and I tore it up. I said thank you so much. I appreciate it. You've been good to me to and I'll do whatever I can for you to help you and I want you to come work here. My my guys. I didn't know that canoeing never do this. And I I said I won't. I won't do that so so you're so you're salesman in IT K- Pilar we're now in the mid seventies that accuracy in the early seventies early seventies and and I gather that well must have gone well because I know how the story goes What what made you in your your opinion successful salesperson? I think Tim I think and still you know I do a little bit here for for the radio station. I think first first of all when I was a sales manager and I had great sales managers You always take a little bit from every person you work with a little bit about. What's good about them and the stuff that's that very good with them We're an independent. At that time. We're an independent television station. There's no affiliation liaised with a network. So it kind of reminded me of selling capable. Rt like selling KF. Venice radio you have to go out and meet people and talk to people and get them excited about your product and I did that I I really I think the best thing I can say about anything that I did in my sales go is I think I sell Tim mckernan. First and then the product comes after It doesn't seem that way when I'm doing it but it is The Way I felt worked for me. And I think it's most importantly when you're involved in sales that you feel something not everybody's everybody's going to be a tim mckernan not everybody's going to be You know Another salesperson you gotta feel you gotTa make sure what you're doing fits free you and then and capitalize on that and I was lucky enough to be a TV for twenty six years. I was a number one salesman there for many many years I loved selling that television station. I loved talking about wrestling at the chase. I love talking about John Wayne Theater on Sunday afternoon. I loved talking about Roller Derby. I loved talking about the three three stooges. I loved being able to come back with an order for seven hundred fifty thousand dollars for Cardinal Baseball With with the Ford dealers I love those kinds of ups and downs and sideways. And and I think what I like most about is the challenge when you sold. KP lartigue against channel five four into which just equals eleven. You know you you know you sold something You know I've never sold a network. I never sold a big station. I loved I mean if I passed away tomorrow I would say I loved every minute of what I've done I've had a great life I really really enjoyed Loyd What I did and I look forward to doing it You know it's a challenge. It's hard it's not easy. I think the majority of the guys were in this business. WHO SAYS THEY GET burnt out and they leave because it's demanding and it's a challenge every day and if you're not up for that getting fired it up every morning and go out here and say listen? I'm GonNa do this today. They used to tell the guys when I was working. Here's the sales manager if you're thinking about if you're looking at headphones saint I don't know if I want to call that purse or not today. I know they're not going to be happy to hear from me. Pick up the phone and make the call the worst thing they can do. Hang up on you and believe me. I've plenty hang up on me but you know it's it's a fun is fun. Deal the best feeling of salesman can Abbas when he signs a deal shakes. The guy's hand are the woman's hand and thank them for the business knowing they got a good deal and you did too. That's perfect that's what it's all about. The thing that stands out to me is I was talking to Doug and a commercial break today and and I said how We ran into rich school last week. We did and Enrich was asking me how my podcast worked and how the advertising advertising worked and you'll see you have to call the people to get them advertising. I said why I said initially daycare finesse now sells the podcast but inside stl. Mike Company owns the content and it owns the content of the radio show. The radio station has licensed out to them to sell and he goes. Oh God that just makes me cringe to the idea of making phone calls to call my on advertising which I think is the way most on air people feel handful of exceptions. But with you I felt like you like that you enjoy. I mean I would sit down. You know when we were both at inside. STL down the hallway. And I'd be like my God. You must have called twenty people in the last hour and you're on with each phone call whereas I think you know God I mean for every one person such as yourself. There's probably ten thousand who have zero interest in doing that. I guess part of it's the fear of rejection. The other part is how do you even go into the pitch so to speak and listen. I would hear it so I heard the I heard the whole thing and really oftentimes. Sometimes it wasn't even a pitch. It was just you bullshit and with you know but that's what people loved. Well I think Tim I. I think the biggest thing I could offer to anybody. Nobody is is this. You don't necessarily have to go out and make calls nowadays with texting and emailing and all that I would suggest if you're selling capial. Rtd To this day are are Cable are Campinas radio that you go out and and shake that person's hand get to know them the most important thing I think you should do is get to know their business You know not as well as they know it. But I'll tell you one thing people love to do when you go out and make a call. They love talk about their business. Because if you're in business you have to be passionate about it in order for it to be successful and everybody will immediately. We have a story when you ask that question. And obviously if they're advertising on your platform you gotta be aware of how their business is going absolutely. So Yeah I've I've I remember you telling me that one I certainly I don't call it. Use It as if it's a tactic but it's something that's like. Yeah that makes sense. I ought to ask how it is. And I'm legitimately curious because the gives you an idea if our if our sales campaigns are working you know well I think I think the big thing is that I've been able to do because I've been around a long time time. I've learned from some great great sales people. Some really good managers when I came here to K. F. S. radio when our group bought the station nine hundred ninety seven slash eight and didn't yes And I would've would've never done this station have never ever done what we did without the train that I received. KP lartigue no doubt in my mind. I was very skeptical about coming here because for years I sold against radio against radio. I got what I came in here and I took everything that I learned that worked a KPL RT To our sales operation Russian and what I used to tell the guys and gals that worked here with me is I would say. Listen if you're going to go out and make a big sale today I don't WanNa go there. Come back with that Ardour and feel so great about it. That's part of what you WANNA do. But if you feel like you're going to get kicked out of this this place somebody's going to run you out today and just cuss you out for being there. That's the one I want to go with. I want you to win them by yourself. And we're going to lose them together and I really believe that's how people were successful There's some people you can interview and you can tell right away if they're going to be winners or not. I used to have a big board as you. You know on my wall with everybody's name and what they're billing was projected out for three months. We had sales means every morning at seven. Thirty seven thirty thirty one. The door was locked. It wasn't torment people. It was to let people know that after eight o'clock sometimes people want you to call then before they open their doors. If you're calling at ten eleven o'clock in the morning these people were already there. They don't have time to talk to you you know. We had meetings sometimes clients at seven o'clock We'd go down Roy at seven o'clock and make call so you know it's it's it's a I I think Like I I would say to anybody gets in this business right now is challenging absolutely as a challenge. It's a tough it's hard. There's no doubt about it and it's even hard selling network television now because of things so fragment it but it's so oh rewarding and where can you go and meet the people that you meet have fun have great lunches and and be successful the nineteen eighties. If I'm not mistaken you know there was one at at Channel Five. There's an opportunity feel like there was an opportunity channel to channel two five channel five their opportunities outside of Saint Louis the late seventies I was calling on a lot of air. I have grown up and I've grown up in the HAMPTONS or something. I doubt that there was a national rep firm that wanted me to go to New York. It wasn't New York. New New York and sell nationally had no interest in that I Miss Saint Louis Guy I Love I love Saint Louis I want my family to grow up. Here I had no interest in going to New York I wanted to stay in the neighborhood and I wanted to To do what I wanted to do. here in St Louis No interest in going into your fair enough traveled in New York traveled to La. So you always bring me back souvenirs. I would always accord So you're a KPI until nineteen ninety. One and I gr- anyone's you have me and seventy six seventy nine Kevin to you Mara. what I would assume surprise nineteen ninety yes And then you decide to leave K.. Pr In nineteen ninety-one right. So now this is where I start to ED understood on. I don't WanNA understand. I'm aware of details because I lived through them albeit. On the periphery and I'm in. I'm what I'm a freshman high school And you decide to leave. Okay Pilar the circumstance or anything you would want to discuss but sure did to to leave you know with four Kids Holy Shit and you're only forty three forty three. Yeah what's going on there. I mean God I think about that. I'm like my God. I mean you accomplished a hell of a lot by forty three well I was promoted to oblivion. Jimmy means I was sent over to right next door to corporate offices I was hired to make. I'm good living there. Handling one account the one that is hard tough account to handle that account and And when you were talking about the back in the seventies come still wanted me to handle that because it was hard tough and nobody wanted it and so I I went in there one day and I'm sitting there like I always got there early in the morning. and Ted Koppel very dear friend of mine to This Day comes walking walking in says. Hey Tim how you office Gillanders my my Neighbor next door kill. Was the news director. He was promoted also now. I think he's still now. He's back with Teddy doing some things for him. But Ted came walking in one day. And I'm in my office and he says to me Hate Tim how're you doing. I should find Ted. How are you? And he said Good he says missy doing my he knew mom because she worked there. And that's how I met. Her was a channel. Evan and I take him out onto York Avenue and it was a guy painting the side of the chase garage and I said Ted see that painter there and he said Yeah I said Ted I said listen. I said he's going to be gone in about two who months and he's looking at me like what. What are you talking about? I said well I said Ted here. I talked to him the other day when I was on my way down the street God rest is sold call peppers and who's the help closing and I used to go there for lunch and and I talked talked to the painter and he's going to be gone in two weeks or two months. I said Ted after he's gone. I have nothing to do because all I've been doing watch him paint and he goes come on. Timmy Action Now Ted I mean I it's not gonna be any more I said listen as an athlete and you're sitting on the bench and you you guys are out there better than you You can sit on the bench. But I'm sitting on the bench here and I know about her and I should be playing and I know that people people wanted me to do this year so you could start a new regime. I totally understand that but ted. I think it's time for me so so I guess about two or three weeks later. I didn't know what I was going to do. and Ted didn't think I was going to leave but subsequently put together a package package for me a severance package everything it was nineteen ninety-one and and The package included a situation. Where if I went to another radio radio station or television station? I lost my severance so he gave me a nice severance for years. So why wouldn't I stay home and get to know my baby. Nobody cried before when I love the house. Now she's grime. Hey when I left and so anyway I I stayed for a couple of weeks Didn't what I was going to do it. Hand in my resignation and Both were tears in our eyes. Because I really did think that that it's two thousand nineteen I probably would have been there until two thousand fifteen. I thought I'd stay fifty years I really did. I realize loved it. I thought I and I had no aspirations aspirations. Even being the number two guy there of ever running the station. I had no. I knew where I should be where I could benefit fit the station and that was sales. I knew I could do something for that station. And and we were the first sales operation and back in the day to build a million dollars in a month. There That was a lot for new Penn station and so anyway I knew it was time for me to move on and I I moved on and I stayed home for a year. That part. I'm I mean this is. This is my own curiosity that because I'm sitting OK forty three years old. I assume you've been used to making a nice living and you know had been in place for a long time even though you're only forty-three you've been at the place for twenty eight years right when he's six years twenty six years yeah And and then you have you have me and I'm fourteen fifteen you have Danny. He's twelve thirteen. You have Kevin News nine and then Maros Maros one and you're not gonNA work. Well I you know I tim I. I was always kind of frugal. I made a good living. I always never knew and this is an amazing thing to live like. This is you guys may or may not know but to wake up every morning. Never known what you're GonNa make never you like that. I like the challenge. I liked wonder if I inherited that and I was married to someone that never ever ever complained about anything. I was talking to your uncle George. He other day at At the Thanksgiving get together together and I just I'm sorry no I'm just I'm so and so anyway I'm I'm sitting there talking to him and I said now that I have a daughter water. I really kind of admire your father. My father in law after I left channel eleven and and and stayed home for a year not knowing what I was going to do and then we go into the other chapter of me saying hey listen. I bought a laundromat. I knew four quarters made a dollar. I just didn't realize how many quarters who took to make a living and so here is my father-in-law on great human being a great man. Never in the five or six years that I ran that laundromat never said. Hey by the way you know. Don't you think you know with four children. You should be doing something a little differently. No he never brought that up to me just before he died maybe about six months before he passed away. He did. Come up to me and say Tim. You know you might WanNa think of maybe going back. Let advertising business. I thought you were pretty good at that and I said you know maybe George you never know. Sold that laundromat after Six years I built it. I built Never made a lot of money but we could exist off of it. I changed the name because your mother said I think washing go is not where you want to be. So we took washing going made sham dry cleaning and laundry. I did you get into a laundromat. What what was going on there? I just assume you're running like a sports book out of the back. Right side is that we're finding the statute of limitations expired. We can finally figure career out what was going on because I look I look back on. What in the hell for a guy who's like still to this day twenty nineteen? Oh my God. He's like the greatest strata salesperson ever. You know but but I'm at the time in high school and you don't know how and I still don't necessarily know I know how business works and you know when you're in high school forty-three seems like Oh you're you're ninety years old but it's forty three. I mean you're kind of at the midpoint then to go from being that sales guy to run a laundromat in South County. It's like what the hell is going on so what what was going on. I was burnt. Burnt out. Really wasn't town. I just I just could get up and do what what I was doing anymore. I it's just hard. Hope you're enjoying this conversation with my dad called Tim senior but he's not a senior just like I'm not a junior different names. It's a whole thing but We're in the home. Loan expert Dot Com studios. If you're going to be buying a home if you're gonNA be refinancing home make sure you do business with Ryan Kelly Men Ryan Kelly love. I love my dad. Wow does he ever love my dad. anytime around my dad and Ryan texts me and then I say I'm sitting here my dad and it turns then I turn into just like the middleman exchanging messages between the two of them The home loan expert Dot Com. Can't say enough about Ryan and it's perfect to be talking about him right now on this podcast because my father is the one who brought him in to be on. T. A. Nearly a decade ago. And as I hear tell the story my dad. No surprise was absolutely relentless with the sale which is kind the way that it needs to be the home loan expert Dot Com. And now so many of you do business right if you haven't when the time comes to buy a home or refinance make sure you're going Ryan Kelly the home loan expert dot dot com mark. Hanna of Evergreen Wealth Strategies is our guest presenting sponsor. He's online at Evergreen. St L. DOT COM is the year wraps up and people start looking what to do with their money and their taxes. Make sure that you have someone. And that person should be mark. Hanna of Evergreen Wealth Strategies. He's Evergreen S. T. L. DOT COM. He presents our guests every week. Here on the Tim mckernan show. His name is Mark Hanna. He's online at Evergreen S. T. L. L. DOT COM and James Carlton Carlton State Farm Insurance Agency. James wants to thank everyone for their support in two thousand nineteen and wants to look forward to a great year in two thousand twenty as more and more listeners. Get on board with James Carlton just like I did. Three one four nine six hundred forty eight hundred zero online at Carlton. Insurance dot net. James is based right in Webster Groves offs and for your home your life and auto you know that if you call during business hours you're going to talk to someone you're not going to go. Oh no one's there leave a message or I'm going to get sent to some headquarters in some faraway land. No you're going to talk to somebody right in the Saint Louis area and for the most important things in your life. You're going to be able to talk to them by your home. Your Life Your Auto. It's three one four nine six hundred forty eight hundred online at Carlton. Insurance dot net. If your insurance costs an arm called James Carlton State Farm Now back to my interview with my father. So you're saying you're burned-out your burnt out. I was dramatic for what you do. Ninety two or three ninety two to ninety ninety seven okay And I do you ever did you ever while you're doing that going okay. How am I gonNA pay bills? Never go never. What am I doing with myself? Never realized I was. I was very blessed like I said before and I bought that house to two years before. Yeah I bought a big house you know now. I only sout Tim I needed some time off. GotTa turn you gotTa turn them into Matt Rocky. Oh from downstairs in the basement it is all on the other side will be made I never i. I never thought that I couldn't do it. I thought hey. I'll want an organ do what I couldn't build it. Oh to to make money and there's but there's a ceiling on a laundromat in south county the ceiling Matin a laundromat Huntley I. I bought a van Because they came. I'm home after the first four weeks. They're going. I have no idea what I'm doing. the guy that sold it to me. Tim You have to at least know how to put on a belt and I showed showed them. I put it up on. And he's not that kind of belt These mechanical things are going to eat you up and they did Because people would come in and they abuse these things and instead of putting in Just a pair of trousers. They put in fifty pounds motors up. Yeah Yeah but you know It was a learning experience. It was like having a saloon without the booze because every Monday so and so came in every Tuesday so and so came in every Wednesday they. They came in every week. People that knew people had come in. Because I'd throw flyers doing that for me in Buildings Flyers around bought a bought. A van had a lady Headed lady dry for me I had an idea Fleishman Hillard I made a phone call there and I called a gentleman there and I I said I got an idea about picking up and delivering dry cleaning because everybody hates having their laundry dropped off and picking it up and I'd like to come down to the agency big agency downtown and talk to you guys. And so I put on a suit and tie and Mister Cobbler was nice. Enough to give me a nineteen ninety-one Lincoln town cars part of my severance and I drove down the fellow said Mitchell right in the corner. Tim Show you where to park mark and I pulled up and he goes. Excuse me Sir. Are you the laundry guy and I said I am. He has oh okay so walked in made a EH presentation and got over one hundred people to do their dry cleaning and laundry with me. I gave them all a little green bag and put their names on it. And we picked up and delivered. Liberty did Fleishman Hillard and and I picked up and delivered Retirement homes ahead lady do all. This and kept the lady's he's busy. Doing the cleaning I farmed out the The dry cleaning to a dry cleaners and wholesale that he'll sail back to me and I charged A little bit more for the dry-cleaning I sold it for about forty grand more than I paid for it. Not Successful Missile An investment but it kept me moving for for few years. Got My mind going and then After I sold that the day after I sold it the phone rang. That's amazing and like I know where the story's going that worked out that it was greg. Greg Marissa who was buying KFI s by and he was fine caffeine us from whom because it was owned by corporation. Was it not. I think it was owned owned by corporation at the time. Yeah CBS I don't know yeah by the way but it was on market street initially and you guys moved into originally originally it was on Hampton. I'm talking about but interning there. Yeah Market Street now. Some urgent care a health insurance that okay so you go from the laundromat right to not knowing what I'm GonNa do. That's still don't know what I'm GONNA do. Do you just real quickly quickly. Do you look back on that. Five years you'd probably say no even if you do just because I know but I don't know and go. Hey I wasted that. No No. I needed that Tim. I just need it at. It's just that doesn't the way it usually works when you're in your forties when you were kids. Oh and people were laughing at me like I went to a couple of the meetings at Fathers Club meetings at Saint. Louis U I and these guys say they're like Oh. He's wanted us one for television sales to laundromat. I'd hey never bothered me it It made me feel like hey listen I'm GONNA do whatever I have to do You know but I assume places. We're interested when you you know there was only one station that never interviewed me channel. Four channel the only one. That never called me. I had an interesting because when I got my Jabba Channel Four. There was some angry sportscasters in town. That you got me my job which is still twenty. I know I know that they never Interview Alan Cohen. who hired me at the GM? They're going back ever ever like eighty one or eighty two interesting. Kristen okay so Maroshek calls you the day after you sell the laundromat. I mean what total coincidence there he calls me and says I heard by an caffeine. Yeah yes in the I want you to meet with Jerry Clinton Myself For lunch tomorrow Jerry. Clinton's GonNa be part of the ownership process us Grey Eagle Kriegel. Legend legend for many Saint Louis named people would say one of the greatest guys guys last fifty years in Saint Louis absolutely and I sit there with Gregg. Who'd I had known from working with him Saint Louis versity basketball and everything channel. Eleven never thought that he thought not that much of me but I guess he did. And in retrospect it was the right move for him in the right. Move for me I became part of the ownership. Ownership Group That all that station I had a burning desire at at close to fifty To put another notch on my belt and hopefully get my kids educated and be able to Send them to schools. They wanted to go to and colleges and things like that and the funny thing is. In retrospect. Now I've been very lucky and blessed to be able to say when I needed to make money in my life when when I needed to make money. I made money when I didn't need to make money. I didn't have money. It was somebody up there even when I was interviewing for Greg with with Gregg right for that job and I'm hoping I don't sweat so they'll smell clorox. I'm sitting there and I'm saying I've been out of this visit five or six years. I'm going to ask for X. amount of dollars I'm going to ask for an expense account. I'M GONNA ask for a company car and I got everything. I got everything that I wanted and I and I knew that. Hey not ever selling a radio spot But I knew enough people in Saint Louis that I could go and talk to people one of my dearest friends as you know David Sinclair great friend of Mine Dave Dave Sinclair who passed away in two thousand nine. Thank you and here's my address. Yes great guy. A great friend of mine And he he would he was like a father wasn't what I would. I think Dave knew that I would go out there and we just talked and he was a mentor of mine and More like probably an older brother Arabia father figure And a good guy to me in a very good guide to my family and so anyway It was it was the right move at the right time If I had to say out of all the things that I've done in my life that was the most successful thing that I did. Head General Sales Manager caffeinate. Yes so I mean I can get extra peak and look this up right now what the station was bought for. I'm not asking to Pete by the way although my point is it's public record. Write what you guys bought the station for and it's not like you were the majority but you know who is in that ownership group Marasek Jerry. Clinton Clinton Hillary. When was he not hail or one? an God who else I feel like the refute people that were in that That ownership group like athletes Serb Saint Louis business people that that people listening to this would recognize. And you buy for do you remember. I don't know exactly so would want to be quote Eh at six years later. So what do you think go. Hi in two million. That is that low I think lower. Okay so let's call it will DISA- call one one one and a half the point being the reason I bring it up because of your work and the work of your sales staff and and and I really don't. I was working there at the time but I mean I know I know I know what it was right. Granted I was in my teens and twenties but you know I can now look back and have an idea the reason the thing sold in two thousand four for thirteen million dollars was you in that sales step -solutely okay. Well good for you for that is that is that is that is the truth. No truth is the truth. I mean if somebody said Eh beating at seven thirty which I was there because he knows her stuff. Yeah beat me and I had a show at seven I mean I I would be there but the thing is tim. Is You know if you're going to lead the troops you got to lead troops to stay close to the microphone GonNa Start Yellow. You say you cannot say say. I'll meet you there of meeting at seven thirty and they come in at seven forty five. That's not how you lead you lead by example. If I didn't ask anybody ever ever do anything that I wouldn't do I said one day one of my meetings I said why don't we have dirt cheap sheep on the air and I knew there was a salesman there that handled that account and I said I am going to get an appointment with dirt cheap. Who wants to go with me tomorrow because he you have to be there? Six thirty he is in the guy who made the dirt cheap by had to be I remember you. I got about that but he would Fred Teutenberg right Tuten. Who was the the famous voice right People would remember him from those spots if they looked him up on Youtube. Be careful out there. That's right right and he would do meetings at six thirty. That was the deal. Six hundred okay. And we'd be there and I'd be there and You know we got bought because we there at six thirty talking about the sales meeting with what they say when you asked how can we don't have dirt cheap on there. I've said I'm going to get them on. I can tell you right now and I said I know who handles the account if you I know how to get the business. Do you WanNa meet me there are. Do you want to meet me at the station tomorrow. We'll go out at six thirty. We'll get there thirty and the guy said Yeah. I said okay. The following following morning I came in and suggestions on the air but these are things that get people excited. If I can do this I used to say I can do this. Anybody can do right. You don't have to gone to Harvard or House right ridiculous creators and it's a way to make a lot of money way to make a lot of mine media. I mean it's really if somebody were saying I'm interested in radio than you want to get into sales. That's what I would tell them because every one on air person who ends up making a nice living if you're good at sales you can make a nice you know in anybody can do it so I would. I remember Frank Coosa Mono saying to me you know and again. I'm in my early mid twenties twenties and he goes Paul. Your Dad's like Bobby Knight back there with those guys could have those sales meetings. At seven thirty frank would get an early and writers monologue so I guess he was close to that vault a lot of things things. That vault is its own thirty for thirty back there with your sales meetings and Martin almost killing Jason Barrett in it That you would have these media and UB screaming. Like I mean I remember seeing you have a sales guy up against a wall one morning. Oh my it was like a flash back to my childhood like Holy Shit. But it's one thing I'm your kid like I dunno I know of not to portray that this was going on every day but you got fired up no question about it. Do you think that could work in two thousand nineteen or do you think they'd go. This guy's crazy he's somebody would go to. Hr and you'd be removed and called the nut now here. I think it still works timmy. For one reason these guys all most of them every the guy that was in that the the ones that build the record breaker there and all the all the the stars were aligned with the blues. Dum well the cardinals doing well and the Rams and the Super Bowl that year right all the low the stars aligned. Could it work again. Yes now would it still and I'll tell you why they make good money. They put this guy and if I have a problem. Guess what he's going to be. I is there to help me. You know yes it would work kind of save an ask in the sense. And I I don't know if you're a fan of having the Notre Dame guy of course through and through Didn't go there but Notre Dame guy through and through that okay we put up with it because we know he wins base. And we're GONNA make money so we'll see but if you're like some asshole screaming at them and they're not making any money screw and everybody had an opportunity to make money. That's the deal you know if you weren't if there was an account on your list wasn't on for three months it's gone. It goes to another guy. Hi maybe the guy doesn't like Irish guys. I understand I understand. Maybe there's some reason he goes. This guy is right right so let's try with somebody with another sales got it. There's always somebody there that I said. Listen you know I mean there's some great sales people Dan you do in a number of her in the market. You know which would speaker managers in now. So so this is a lot of people will be like okay sales. I don't know I don't I don't really care. Even though they hear me on the radio talk about the salesforce is the most important take Doug von take me take the cat take whomever on the radio station doesn't matter if we don't have a great salesforce we're not winning games. It's like pitching with the baseball team to have great pitching. Otherwise you're not gonNA win right and I. I'll take the pitching over the hitting any day of the week and I've been an hell. I'm an on air guy so I'm a hitter by definition but what was the station billing when you came in ninety seven ninety eight and in what was it billing I mean the I know the high I point was the four million a year which some. FM's around here right now. In two thousand nineteen would take by the way not not by any means on. Some of them are right. That's that's a small number to some of the the big was a little bit over a million four extant. Yeah and But again it it had to do with the formula and the formula is it starts with getting the right players on the team You know you can have a a great coach. If you don't have the guys want to take the field you know I mean I hired all former athletes and I would motivate them by saying. Did you ever take the ice to jabber take the court. Did you ever take the field and say hey. LISTEN WE'RE GONNA get beat today. I don't care no we don't do it that way here. Nobody nobody takes the field to lose. Everybody takes the field if you're a good athlete and have aspirations of being better to win. Dan and Nance sales sales is a constant game To Be Successful. And that's what motivated me you know. Oh Hey listen. If somebody said he tim he got a chance to do this tomorrow. and they're going to be up and they're going to be fired up. I'm there because it's it's it's a game but it's a game of life if you don't if you don't want to be aggressive and tough and strong and hard then you shouldn't get in it if you don't let your name on the top of that board to be the number one salesperson. Don't get in it if you don't have the pride or the ego to do this and make sure that you're better than anybody else on the salesforce. Don't get in it. It's a waste of your time and away. You go some place and wait for somebody to call you. This isn't where you want to be so in two thousand four a group from Atlanta big-league broadcasting right comes in and buys the station I always said because people what happened with those guys from Atlanta and I I guess I'm biased in some sense but I feel like I even answer this now knowing knowing I'm more right than I would say twelve years ago or so Because now I've been on the other side of operating station and having a greater appreciation Shen for sales than I did while I when I was starting out a CAF S in two thousand and two and their biggest mistake was not keeping. You had nothing to do with me. Even though I guess the morning grind leaving and going to thirteen eighty. I'm sure people would say that because when we went there they went out of business. Essentially I mean they WANNA selling for. They bought it for thirteen. They sold it for one and a half two at the time. I'm an idea that gives you an idea And any I take I take pride because they treat US poorly that we played a role in putting out of business but the reality is that them not keeping you to me. Is the reason why they fail now. I'm sure they had some expenses. That were ridiculous which of course is also also a factor in the salesperson doesn't necessarily have any You know that's not your department per se unless you're involved on the board and you can influence that but They didn't they didn't have the salesforce once you left. That was it so it was that tempting for you to say what was the situation. I would have stayed because him initially they. They sat down with me. I was the first guy after Greg. Put the deal together that they wanted to meet with and they wanted May. They said they were going to build the station around you. And they want me to be part of that their build their own. What me Martin and the cat yes? Right okay up but they said we WANNA build. They mentioned your name because they know your my son and I'm sitting there the tender I room at the Chase hotel stopping grounds for for me and I'm having dinner with them and and they're telling me what's going on and Blah Blah Blah on and I'm going. Yeah Yo. Yeah Oh we really want to stay. We really do. But we can't afford to pay you what you're making but you can you can Do Us some things that we need you to do. I should fine. You know a lot of people here in Saint Louis. Yes I do Well Tim here's just what we want you to do. We want you to continue to do what you're doing. We can't pay you what you're making but we want you to introduce this to everyone you know. In Saint Louis the McDonald's franchisees the Dave Sinclair's the guys all the people that you know throughout the years ears and enhance the ball the baton off for us and give us a good good recommendation. Do Business Guys. Let me ask you a question. I said I was born at night but not last night. And they're looking at me. What do you mean I said? I know what happened happened here after I do all this and help you. I'll probably be gone but you guys have understand something. I own part of this radio station and we know that and we think we might have made a mistake. I said I totally understand that but I said I have a sales meeting every morning at seven thirty when you close on this radio station. They said at nine o'clock Friday is that at nine one leaving I was gone again. Strength is independence strength is being making a good living and not living being on that living Putting some we you and I used to go. and Danny everybody would go to savings and loan on on Saturday. 'cause I did would know if I made twenty thousand dollars last year I was GonNa make twenty thousand this year so I had to save some money in order to exist thinking if if if Mr Copper sold that television station if if Greg Marasek decided. Hey we're out we're GONNA write it off as a loser. I had always feel like hey eventually I have to be independent and so to this day. thank God I can Kinda say listen. Listen if I if I want to do something I can do it. If I don't WanNa do it I don't have to do it but I got that Tim almost when I was in my early forties. I was lucky because I saved and I invested and I did what I could do. No I I envy that I feel like somehow I screwed that up. One of our one of our sponsors is mark. Hanna Evergreen Wealth Strategies And I I don't know what happened because you were so good at that. I I think Danny was really good at Dante. My brother who's the oldest guy. Yeah and I I mean I didn't quote unquote figure it out. I don't know if I still gotta figure got into like a couple of years ago. I don't know what the hell happened there. I have no idea. I mean it was a big mess so with with my son one of the things that I want to make sure I go out of my way to do is to to explain the virtue of saving money. You know I mean again. It's not like you know like I'm whatever but I mean I could have been a better spot. That's that's the premise. And just didn't know I just didn't know what wasn't making ridiculous money but I was making decent money being a channel for twenty three years old and then doing radio as well so I two forms of income and I screwed that up so so you and Danny specifically I guess Kevin. I don't know I don't remember that going. Everybody's x return here but my point is that's a big thing and it's allowed you some some flexibility. Not You know like you see Deniro doing these shitty movies. I'm not talking about the when we look like walking around with Anne hathaway on some Rom Com. And you go in the hell's he doing you know you're Don Corleone Leone in seventy two. What are you doing with Anne hathaway and And I guess he didn't I guess he'd been divorced a bunch of times. But either way you got to save your money and that That's an important you know you talk about sales lessons but managing money and not living like some kind of dip shit is a is an important Wasn't here I wasn't I wasn't listen in to the show I wasn't into The general general sales manager at At KTAR TV Saying listen your director of sales now. You need to get a house with a pool. Because you're gonna I'd be doing a lot of entertaining be doing this and that and you got an ice income now tim with a nice override. All kinds of things going on I want you to move and I said to him he actually said that. Oh yes and I said we'RE GONNA rise up on the south side over that and I said and I said okay I said Said Let me ask you a question I pick my kids up from their neighborhood and I take them out to. Where do you want me to move and all of a sudden sales? Go down down down now. Do I take Tim and Dan and Kevin and Mara and move them back. I don't WanNa do that because nobody's say tim by the way we had a bad year. We're still going to pay. Yeah you're right because I got a big mortgage right. You guys will take care of me right no tim. That's not the deal then. I ain't moving. I'm sorry I feel very uncomfortable where where I am. My neighbors are all guys. Probably Living Way below their means Which is fine? Nobody is coming me up to me and saying hey listen We're getting a new Bentley. Tomorrow what are you GONNA get. I don't need what I need is to be happy Have my health. Have your mom healthy and my kids do well my grandchildren doing well. And like I say to people all the time if I passed on to the big sales conference in the sky tomorrow. I'm happy guy. I've had a great life. I really feel blessed. I really really really do. And that and know that sounds Corny. But I swear to you I mean Hey I'm seventy two years old now feel good. I can't wait to pick up right after Christmas and go to Hilton head South Carolina and enjoy my life with my wife and come back for another grandbabies birthday. I mean that's what it's all about and I use your gambling. You're you're throwing the dice said. Hey listen everything I'm doing when I'm in my twenties and thirties and forties parties. I hope I'm seventy to be able to enjoy it. That's where I am in life now. You're enjoying this joint. I really am. I enjoy the little bit that I do with the radio station station. I enjoy that because I need that stimulation still tim. I need to go out and talk to people and get excited about what the station I can do for you. As an advertiser I love listening to this radio station and listen to the people that I sold still on this station station spending money because it works for them that because it Tim mckernan or are any of the sales people here. It's because Hawes is working for them and you cannot sell any product if you don't believe it's the best and I still. I mean I believe Aleve. Ktar TV's the best. Because that's how I sold it. I believe K.. Finance radio is the best. Because that's the way I sold it and so for anybody ready to make excuses. Oh I don't want to call them. They're not interested all the signals. Hey that's all those are excuses. Give me a a guy or a Gal. That's going to go out there and work and be excited about what they're doing you'll be successful just the way it is. Are you going to get your butts kicked every day doing this thing absolutely. It's hard especially a lot of calls. It's going to be hard. It really is but until so I told people this. Do not give up until somebody says to you. And I've had him said call me one more time I'm having you arrest. Then then give but until they threatened to have you arrested. Keep on call you I would listen to you because you were working with me at inside US and really one of my favorite stories. And it's it's an important story in the fifteen year I guess almost that's fifteen and a half years of this show in two thousand nine two thousand ten year it inside. Stl An essentially. We're on the website and those those girl next door parts and that's really what we're doing. It was filed Reagan. You know some money but I had an offer. I was weird thirteen eighty and I had an offer to come and do afternoon drive at Caffeine us and is it nice. Amount of money was thirty percent increase. From what I was making if I'm not mistaken But if I went and did afternoons a caffeine us that means me. Doug and the cat wouldn't be able to work together because they have their TV jobs apps so thirteen eighty knew that I could do this and they were they were running out of money and they said we. I want you to stay but the only way that we're going to be able to keep you guys is if you sell your own stuff we can't pay you anymore so wouldn't just be paying myself be me paying Doug me paying the cat me. Pay Producer Joe. Perhaps the board operator. I don't know what the arrangement was. It's been ten years and then I have this guaranteed offer With a contract from cameras to do afternoons and I remember going back and forth and I remember calling you because I mean here. We're going to do this now. We're going to have to take this on these expenses and what was going to more than double our expenses. Which means we're going to more than double our sales also and I'm recalling you about it because this could have been the end of the morning after And I said what would you do if you're in my spot and you said Tammy they're both shit holes and if I'm going to be in a Shithole I'd rather control my own destiny so I'd say no to CAF s and build your own thing at thirteen eighty you remember that. Yup I remember that And so turned. I remember calling the person who made the offer to me. And they're you're like this is like the most offered a you're turning this down is there's no need even don't even know point. Don't even go up. You know another whatever. It doesn't matter. This is what I'm I'm going to do because I got to keep the group together and we're GonNa take our chances and then sure enough. We may work. We made it work so quickly you made it work Along with our sales staff that That six months later if I'm not mistaken seven months later caffeine has called me and they brought us over two thousand ten to have the exact exact same business model we had implemented thirteen. Eighty thirteen eighty turns off the lights the next day. No Bullshit John Camp whose find one of the finest people people I've worked with in media The day we are lascaux. He came any hug me hugged dog. Hug The cat and as well. That's it that's it for me too. I'm leaving because you guys are going. I'm gone guys aren't here. We're done like Oh okay. And then he went on. I think he went to one. I think eventually went to do I heart clear channel slash IHEART And that's when we went over to to CAF s were We were there until The man and woman thing happened and there's no need to get into that. I'm sure you have wonderful thoughts on that. I'll leave that For people to to wonder on people kind of know the program there so you're working at inside. STL YOU'RE EAR You're selling it inside steel. Was it weird for you to be working technically. I'm the one that's in charge. Even though I never really felt like I was in charge with my dad selling. Is that a weird deal. No not really Tim It it never bothered me. I mean I had bosses all my life. You know The one one that really didn't have I didn't really move which one was really a good situation. She's situation with me was with Greg. Greg new my strengths. He knew his strengths. He wants you to your. He let us do that sales thing. He didn't even feel comfortable coming to sales meetings when we did these things because he he knew the temple was different. Greg is a good guy. He he He's a smart guy. He built something he got the right players in the right spot and to him hats off to him for doing that super salesman. He sold the station And sold called the sizzle. I always say without the steak perfect And I respect Greg for what he's done. I knew new my strengths. Every place I've gone I knew what I could do. I mean the deal that Campinas put together for me with bonuses they never thought I'd achieve. I know that every year I achieved them and I got a bonus a nice bonus every year. But it's interesting because I didn't even look at my contract until the fourth year and say that I surpassed my bonus three straight years. You guys only a bunch of mine. I I never even looked at it because I was having fun. I had guys were charged the hill with me. I wasn't there by myself. We were winning. It's really really rewarding. When you're winning and and again you brought up a point you know? Control your own destiny. I think that's really important. I really we do one of the reasons that I'm is independent as I am him is because I never knew I never knew who was gonNA come in. I always had good job opportunities But it had to be right for me I every person that left. TV and they called me immediately Lee when they bought Katie and L. Channel Thirty Berry Baker Those guys called me and they said Timmy. Come with us us. We're GONNA make a lot of money and Blah Blah Blah. I was very loyal to Ted Copper. I'm still wild. A Ted Copter They helped me when I needed. Help help when I was a kid and I was loyal and so everybody that went to channel thirty. That was asked to go there and I was one one of the top guys to be asked left as millionaires. I don't because the channel thirty because the company that Berry Bill to sinclair broadcast. But here. Here's the the deal. I never looked back. I look ahead. I mean there's going to be things as long as I'm alive. That are going to be tough. And there's going to be things that are going to be great and I think in the in every line of business you have to be optimistic especially in sales and if you give up if you see and I've seen guys are just beat up. They they take it. They don't take it personally. Firstly they take it maybe to the point where I just to frustrated. This isn't the product I can sell. I gotta get out the reason I did what I did I think is because I did take it personally now you did. I feel like anybody who was vying for me boy timmy. This guy's a good guy and then it could be like Mother Teresa and she's not fine Well tell me back. That's true. Yeah I would say to somebody crooked as hell. I don't know what he's a good guy by being call you back. That was the deal you are here. We are now and I guess you know. What are we talking about? It's fifty plus years since he started selling and I still hear it as we're sitting here here in twenty nineteen you are considered got a just started a new guy. That caffeine has hired I was up at Kirkwood Brew House on Friday night and he came up introduced himself. And he's like your dad. I mean that you are you know. I don't know if you're aware of this. Yeah I'm really not attended p the people in and again this is a small world. It's out that life the handful of people who are aware of it. I know it's out there your world even though I have a greater appreciation for sales people to You know but in in that world you are or healthiness here as you know. I've heard people say Tim. You know you've done a great job and you had a great career and BUBBA. That makes Sheffield good. I would rather be looked at truthfully. Timmy is a guy that worked hard and gave it one hundred and fifty percent I think that's how I was raised. You know especially Because your parents went through the depression I think a lot of it had to do with that Our family. My my brother and my sisters. We all have an awful lot in common the way we were raised very conservatively You know but I really think the big thing that I would love for people who say your dad was a good guy. He was an honest man Worked hard and it was a good provider. When you guys were were young you know and the family was growing And and and the only thing I can say eighty people now is. Hey listen if you're in sales You'll know if you're a good salesperson or not if when you don't get a sale you get choked up and now you choked up. I still do. I mean if I I'll never forget I had lunch with a media buyer one time about an account and she said to Emme Tim I swear to you when ever we buy something. You're going to know that's all I wanNA know. I don't want to sit in a meeting in somebody say they're on the air. Why don't we have them? I WANNA know every account that I'm responsible for and and let let people know what's going on. That's all I ask that night. I was a Friday. I had lunch with her Friday afternoon. Came home I'll be darned. I'm sitting here watching Channel Five News and there it is there on the ruined. My whole weekend could wait until nine o'clock Monday morning when she got into work and call her and she said Tim. I'm sorry we we don't have that account anymore do but I ruined ruined the whole weekend so i WanNa talk about MOM MCI go long hair. So you're going on that we haven't even gotten into the because People WanNa hear you shit on me as a kid. I think that's what I think that's what people are tuning in for Pete's waiting for But you know my mom your wife of What are we looking at here? forty-five years right married. Forty five forty six and martyrdom to me. Big Time opposites. I think that would be absolutely fair assessment but got you don't Ah I don't think we appreciate it. I don't know I mean I've talked about this with Dante Kevin or Mara but I don't think we appreciated how much you guys really love each other until you get older and then you have relationships of your own. You know that that you guys have isn't just necessarily something that everybody that's true. Even though you're opposites visits and and part of me goes I don't know how she puts up with you right And then mom being how mom is with I guess the way I would describe it as thorough and a lot of questions which you know This is all right. Who Different UH-HUH I think most of the time you're like I don't care missy you know I don't care. Whatever the details thousand word emails on on Christmas presents and that that that but yet you guys I mean still I mean I I now I have a greater appreciation for what you you guys have? You've than I because you don't know because you don't know any better when you're a kid you don't know any better than that. Not everybody grows up with that. Not everybody grows up with parents who truly love each other in support each other. That is that is. That's probably uncommon right and the United States in two thousand nine hundred and in the nineteen eighties nineties. When I was growing up so with that said did you guys met at At channel eleven in what. Seventy two seventy two okay married and seventy four and she was working in promotion. She was working the Promotion Department and and I got to be on taking a step back also and she was very nice looking woman. And you know I kinda got what you got going on here. Yes yes oh yeah so tall. What your hair situation was then an thinning? All right so we got that going right So you know you're probably you. I know you're probably trying to hit a thirty foot pot here. This isn't this isn't a Gimme. You know what I always said. I even said it's your Bachelor Party To Your father in law we over overachieved and I believe it and I really believe that. But I've always been an overachiever Sometimes I pinch myself to this danger. Hey listen I made a great seal so people say missy with you and she had Kevin Kline and Joe is man these guys. Yes but you don't want to hear such there's such a thing thing is Pity Sale. Yeah I made a pity. She felt sorry for me. And so anyway You know Tim again You look back at your life and And I haven't done that much but today is day that I'm looking back and I'd say listen. I was blessed again with a great woman. Great Wife and a great mother other And those are things that you I. I don't think he can never take for granted. I mean we were really. We were young and I was twenty six when mom was Twenty four when we got married Let our honeymoon to Hilton head South Carolina. And I. You said you were listen. Let me tell you something. I think this place is going to be really special. There wasn't much going on there. They did have the golf tournament going on back. Then but I said missy this I think this would be a great place. I should some day some day. I'm going to buy a place here. Well it took me from nineteen seventy four to two two thousand four two thousand four. We've had that place for fifteen years now and and It was just. It's one of those things. You gotTa have goals in life. You gotTa make them achievable And I've been lucky enough to go to sales seminars and and things where people say. Make your goals achievable people. Don't just say listen I'm you know I'm I'm a left handed batter and all of the home runs. I want you hitting in left field and it's not gonNa work are hey listen you know you're GonNa you're gonNA build one hundred thousand dollars a month on on. KFI radio if you do want to ask you do. Oh it's not logical. It's not gonNA happen so you're right. I think mom and I compliment one another you know. And she's a great gal and you're in tense in in the eighties. I feel like you're a different guy now. Maybe I'm wrong on that I think so. I think I've mellowed. A little bit was it. was that the stress of work I think so. Yeah Yeah I think I like Danny Sedan. Danny is you know Salsa Channel Four and he goes it's hard it's tough and and I could tell on Sunday night. He said that you Your personality would change. Yeah because your uniform is all clean and shiny over the weekend and Monday morning it starts getting dirty again. 'cause then you're in the game so I think one of the reasons why I do what I am doing and have done and it's a byproduct of I just wanted to be around the cardinals. I think that's really what it got down to. But is that there aren't many there have not been since we started this radio. Show in two thousand and four too many Sundays I might be able to count on one hand. While two thousand isn't seven it would have been every single week minus two thousand seven the first six months in two thousand seven I. It's not that I necessarily. I can't wait to get up at five in the morning. I mean once I get in there at seven o'clock I'm GonNa look forward to it. You know and what a lucky and that's an important thing and so when I talk to people because a lot of times we'll have people younger people who feel like working at inside US tier working with with this show. Pete would be a perfect example. Actually I think we talked about it when Pete was interviewing. You can't put a dollar value on John Not dreading the next five days on totally agree now totally agree. I think there's something to be said for that. And and for you you were just hungry. I feel like you know well as you know Tim. In this business the players change. I was really I've had tremendous guys to work for through the years My last boss was at doc was a TV Everybody else I'd never had a boss. I didn't have a boss When I had the LAUNDROMAT I didn't have a boss? When I had Greg Marissa RECYC- I didn't have a boss When I was working with you I I think that is? There's there's there's peaks and valleys when you have people that you're working for and If if you're not Attuned to what they're all about then it becomes a job and but sales is always bottom line. You know I mean we. We did so many different things all the time what I was doing now. In retrospect compared to what we were doing it cavernous radios. I was selling radio now with pictures. KP TV. So when I came here that's why we were successful. I was really selling radio. I wasn't selling Talib. Brian Right So you get married and seventy four And you have me in seventy six six. I when when Jameson was born my son. Jameson was born in two thousand seventeen. I made it a point to type out the details from that day. which because I have a weird memory be back in a moment go? I will remember all this but then I've gone back and read it since and I'm like Oh my God I forgot about that a- What do you remember about that That when you were born yeah can you remember anything can remember years ago forty. Three years ago I remember that it was a very very very difficult delivery but I think it was almost twenty four hours I think The the the the thing. I've always wanted to have a son. My first child I knew we'd have more than one I thought And and I I thought it was great I didn't make even though everybody thinks you're a junior and it makes it easy. I think everybody should have their own identity So you weren't a junior middle names can. Yeah that's right you know It's the middle name thing. So anyway I was tickled tickled. I was excited You know I had you with a two liter. Seven a plastic bottle. I had J. Hidden Paper Wads and when that was going going on to. Okay because Jameson doing that kind of that stuff. I seems to love baseball. Which I kinda these kids really GonNa like baseball? You know and I certainly have one of those things if he likes something then. Great if he doesn't then you know I'm not play at all. If you find something you really right but for whatever reason reason I mean what went on with me and you and I guess what would have been seventy eight. Seventy nine has indirectly led to this radio. Show no because if I don't fall in love with the cardinals like I did then. I don't pursue the journalism school at Missouri which was a complete mistake by the way because I thought I would learn to be a play by play guy in its deuce casting so I you know drivers in. I'm going. Oh my God I'm in the wrong place and the right on. I should have gone knows. I don't know there's a school for Where you learned to play by play guy and all of a sudden? I'm anchoring television news and I'm like I have zero interest in this but that's what I'm doing and I guess that's going okay but I don't really care for it so then I get into radio but but I fell in love with the cardinals and I don't really remember you being passionate sports. Fan Notre Dame Notre Dame football. That's what I feel like you care. Most I don't really feel like you ever were as emotionally invested as I certainly have been in like the success the cardinals or if if you were or were it was because it would tidier ability to sell the advertising or lose well thing is I was really tied. Hide in to the cardinals When Mike Shannon was playing red shanties was the manager? Because I knew do of these guys that are local. Guys you know and things like that and and redwoods our neighbor In fact he was the first gentlemen to come over to our house the day after my father died To say was so sorry in to grab my sister Maureen and say I know you're daddy's gone now but if he he ever needed daddy I'm here for a while red shading tomorrow. Rain Yeah And so these are these are things that kind of made me you you know I was I was I always sit there. Mom always say your dad will be home in a few minutes because the first pitches in few minutes and I would pull up in front of the House Really Wadad. I watched I watched every game. I remember going to like I mean I I my first memory. Is You guys bring in Danny Home March seventy nine so two and a half right which I don't know if that's early or late for a first timer? Okay but my favorite thing. I guess I wasn't six six yet was when I went to my first cardinal game with you and mom and I thought that was just the greatest thing ever I mean I still still think of that as the greatest thing effort was August of eighty. Two and I think you came home. I think I was playing wiffle ball in the front yard on Vienna and with Mike Hutchinson and And I think you came home and said I've got tickets for the game. We're going to the game and I was so excited but having not gone and then I don't really remember anything about the cardinals pre-august of eighty-two that I don't know how why I was so excited about it but obviously cared I remember being excited and then I remember going to the game and being like I remember in all right. You stand here or look at world series. MVP in two months Darrell Porter will be standing right next to you in my mind. It's so magical. The whole thing is so magical that somehow Darrell darrelle porter's actually going to be standing next to me. What she meant was going to be in the background? I I it will be standing right. We're getting hamburger and I thought the hamburgers and credible I wouldn't eat a hamburger the right right now. If you gave me a thousand dollars but I remember I. I thought it was a hamburger. Oh Yeah night Lonnie Smith you remember this inside the park home because Jeffrey Leonard who became famous later for the one flap down by the giants were wearing these orange uniforms with white pants. In that ballpark was so big. You know you could have gotten an inside the park. Baloney Smith Fast Helmet would fly off and he was around the basis of an as he's around the basis. You're saying I've never seen this before an inside the park on the next x day Glenn Brummer stole home knew that that was the cornell. I didn't know the giants on Sunday night. That was my first game. plummer steals home the next day and then in two months they win the world series series. And I think if I go to the game and it some you know crappy game and if they're just you know whatever having kind of middling year I don't know if I ever get into the cardinals as much as I did but that's what I wound up. That's that it became. It's like a gambler. Who has I bet right? You know what I'm saying yeah and And and so I was so into it. I remember when they would be on the west coast. You would write like thing like a note as to what happened the game whether or not they won or lost and left at my sock drawer. You remember this. No Oh my God. Oh I don't remember that I remember. Wow but ensure that was me. It was a neighbor who really And and and I remember waking up and I'd have this like anxieties. I walked over over the sock drawer like did they win or did they lose dead serious. You know I mean I was that into our. Wow and so like the eighty five world series. I can remember remember when that Shit happened in game. Six is mom wouldn watch. He'd be walking around outside. That stuff still goes on goes on campus wide man Dan. Jack Pendleton was Over watching it when that happened You know I'm talking about the blown call and and everything so you know that disaster Ostermann. Mom's saying walking up and down the street hear people screaming when when Denkinger blew the call. Oh Gosh Yeah. eighty-seven watching with you and the cardinals loss to the twins wins. I remember being this huge Notre Dame fan that you are the for Notre Dame fans you say Phantom clip and they know exactly. If they're old enough they know who you're talking rocket Ismail Against Colorado. That was brutally what you really cared. I was having a good day until you brought that up. We're GONNA get because I really yeah And I remember screaming and screaming. Like you're so excited Greeks Day I don't scream like that auditees returning that thing and then it gets called back. I mean Holy Shit so we experienced that thinking the cardinals world series together in eighty five thinking Notre Dame. I Dunno name GonNa win the National National Championship that year but they would have beaten Colorado Orange Bowl in ninety on the phantom clip as it's called Sameer that Missouri the fifth down I think for that matter So I remember those things but as far as intensity on sports. I don't feel like you mimic that. And then my intensity playing. I don't know where I got that from but I definitely finally had it and then Danny was an was e- much better athlete. I don't think that's even up for debate. But I don't think he had the same intensity though he's a little you guy he's the Kinda Guy Story if you say one of the four doesn't fit wouldn't it be Danny Right. Am I right on that year. Mars intense. I know yes I think he Out of all of them. Kevin Are Danny Smith because minor. Slow right right. Yeah and and Danny's Kinda guy scores seventy seven Seventy two seventy with a second ago. You want him at the free throw right well. Oh He's just championship the Buzzer. If I'm not mistaken Ryan. He did receive the you know and I couldn't have been more happy brother absolutely and and for him I think he's like all right. You know the baskets there's a layup what else am I gonNa do Ryan you know. It was great story home. I almost had a half court shot. Aquifer didn't I tell the story right one he actually won the championship at the Buzzer. Does you know and I ran down there because 'cause I knew all those kids because they played soccer on the soccer team coached and I ran down there and they sedan. God you'll remember this day the rest of your life and he looked at me I'll never Forgetting Goes Dad. Can I get a coke. I'm going by yeah. You can have the stadium. You WanNa Dan you know unbelievable and in sports are huge part of my life and I honestly went to Saint. Louis you high and I don't know if this speaks to you and mom encouraging us to pursue anything or if you're just like this guy so delusional we're not going to ruin it for them honestly thinking I was going to play for the cardinals. Oh absolutely yeah I know that. No ooh that wasn't until I got rushmere but even then I'm like okay. I'M GONNA make sure I make the tea my sophomore year which I did yes Instill thinking okay. Well then. That's good now. I made the team so now I can still play for the card. I'm absolutely absolutely like okay. That's that's not no but I thought that I believe I believe believe you did that but I remember and I and I'll tell people this and I may have mentioned on the radio in the past but the reason why once I got cut my junior year. Then it's like okay this this might not workout this whole cardinal writing at this right. Maybe we need to plan right call an audible. Is I remember watching Lou Holtz. Who of course you know you worshiped as the head coach of Notre Dame and I? I don't know why he was talking about this at a press conference as press conference Roy so random I remember him saying this press conference not like an interview says find something you love to do and find somebody dumb enough to pay how you do it and I've lived by that. I really great line but I mean it was. It was like a press conference getting ready for like some shit bag team where he probably was acting. Elevate to beat us you know. And there's like forty point favorites and And that for whatever reason that stuck with I think it's because I was working at Petro's bussing tables and I hated it so much that I thought to myself I can't I can't get in this spot the rest of my life where I'm working for people who I know aren't more intelligent. You know I and I don't necessarily have in that comes off. I know I realized that comes off the wrong way but I mean they were. They were really really kind either. We're real happy and I thought this is awful awful And I gotta get a spot. Were you know I don't deal with this in my life on a day-to-day basis and I'm i. I think you had me working like fifteen. What was that about? I just think to me back. I guess maybe it worked out because it instilled work ethic would God. I hated it and it was right enough being you know at that time. I don't know if it's different now. How but being from our neighborhood where there weren't a lot of people from our neighborhood going to Saint Louis you high and then when the weekend rolls around they're all excited and we can rolls around like I'm GonNa go bus tables in Kinda be treated like an asshole you know to make like twenty bucks? I think it was part of growing up in part of the The thing that you got God out of that to the thought process I think a lot of it is and independents and and saying hey listen gotta know what it takes to make a living and what you have have to do and and You know you. I know you don't want to do this. The rest of your life and hopefully it won't but if you do this is what it is I think that you know a lot of what we did was to put you guys in a position where you can reflect. Reflect back like you are today Danny worked there Kevin worked for vases Mara Mara work. But she got some money when she was at Saint Louis University because soccer But you know I just think that you know you say do you do you. Do you think having somebody somebody say you know. You're dead you guys. That's nice to hear but the legacy for any parent is looking at your kids. You know I always tell people in your all. Your kids live in Saint Louis Tim I yeah we did something wrong. Nobody laugh you know kiddingly. I mean I feel very proud of what you've VICI and Danny's achieved and cavins achieved and Mars achieved and I always tell people. Let let me tell you something. Nobody's knocking on the door Ought to ask for anything You know You were instilled a a good work I think I think we instill that in with our kids I thank you you all did well in school You all have You know good Good family early life. That's what it's all about. I mean you know You know now that mom hates when I say this now the both of us are on the back nine You look at what what you've done in life and hey it's great that I I did this and I did that. Work Wise Eight. That's part of my. That was part of my life. I had to do that but I think it'd we have good kids. And you have a good spouse and you have a you. It's the end result of all the sacrifices you guys are just starting to learn that you do. I mean Mom and I went out dinner Thursday Friday Saturdays here this week this past weekend but we never ever went out you guys know. We never went out. We didn't have anybody necessarily babysitting. I'm we were there. You know but we were sacrificing and and so when the twenty seventh of December rolls around. You know. I WanNa be in Hilton that I wanted to be in South Carolina. I WanNa be you know Enjoying during the bowl game I wanNA. That's part of life now. I kinda I kinda like. You don't fall over the grandkids. Madam might sound weird but I li- I because I don I love them. You know you do. I mean God nobody asks in more than you do but I like that. It's not like you know like if you if you had it your way. I know you'd be Hilton head like you'd live there I think carly actually I would be there more right tonight. Why because it's kind of like yeah I mean you did? It raised four kids. You know and one of them was born. You know after you had already been raising one for thirteen years and never thought anything. What do you mean never never ever ever thought? Oh my gosh what are we doing here. Now never With Maher the Laura was born. I've I've got. Hey listen this is great. And one thing Your grandmother my mother said to me is Tim. She's GonNa keep you young and and you know what I never even thought of it that way. But I'm out there with Geyser half my age. Almost watching kids play soccer stuff like that. I mean hey it was great we. We had a great life with her because she played clubs sports and we'd had asked me who those better athlete. I don't know Morrow in soccer was unbelievable. Played Division One one and so you know she had to be something. I loved watching her play. A team was gonna WanNa State Championship right or Coast Championship. 'cause they'd have penalty kicks right. Yeah they do it now right now and she was allstate or she knows date and then so so going going through each child so with with me I think mom has convinced herself that I'm playing a character on the radio. I think that's how she's he's able to listen to the radio. Show that like all the weird shit that I say. Oh well he's just playing a character and I think that she. I think that's mom drives listening to the morning. Right right I think that What about Danny? Because we're certainly different. I mean not just like with the height thing but but like you're saying personality analogy wise More laid back. How would you put a great incredible athlete? Great father loves his daughter. There's nobody business Couldn't be a better a father with daughters than Dan. Yeah right and it's a great father with daughters I think Danny is a He's a hardworking. Can Guy. He's the Kinda Guy in our profession that I would love to have on the salesforce you working with me I always said working with. Let me nobody worked for me. Work with me you know Even Keel knows how to roll with the punches and you have to know how to roll with the punches ages with accounts and things like that I think Danny is just a different type of guy he just is and for good guy. Yeah I think maybe a good way the way a great way. Yeah and and the biggest surprise out of four is coming Because Kevin has done done things that I never thought Kevin would do. I always thought Kevin would-be an outstanding teacher. And he is Kevin Teaches at Saint. Louis you high. And he founded founded and owns the Improv shop right which is now ten years old and when he was teaching it Lila Academy in Chicago? He got more involved. And I got involved at Indiana University with improvisational comedy but really got involved. Also always had the dream of opening up an improvisational comedy buddy theater here in Saint Louis in coming back to Saint Louis to do Improv and teachers Saint Louis. Ui that's what he really wanted to do. The thing that the thing is that Kevin and I share her is that both of us got into our careers for the love of the game right. Never I never thought about money. Nobody ever said anything you you knew about the media side of it right but I never knew that you don't usually make a lot of money as an on air person in in this business. I guess when I was coming up maybe that was still going on sort of in television I didn't I wasn't going to school to be a talk show. I mean you could you know Doug always says you don't preschool. Education do what we do but I wanted to call Cardinal Games just like three hundred thousand other guys and right women in Saint Louis. You Know Jack Buck is who you worship. That's what I wanted to do right. and Kevin Starr. I don't think Kevin started the Improv shop like business models and pro form of what it's it's going to do. I think he thought that there was a there wasn't one in town and he had a background from being in Chicago. Where there's of course second city where he worked? And and then. And and then he was Improv Improv Indiana University so he knew it but I don't think he ever move to his credit. I mean that's the thing I admire. I admire what he's he's done you know. Hey if somebody starts a business to make money God bless them if anything that might be the right probably is the reason to do it but he did it and he's then found ways to monetize it and turn it into what it is. I mean God bless him. I have a great deal of respect for that because he did it for the love of the game but start a business and you go. I'M GONNA make money on this even though I don't really like it. But he traveled to find out how to put together business to North Carolina University and sat down with people that were involved in Improv. And stuff like that and to how to put a business model together gather he spent money To to get a business model put together down to Saint Louis University You Know He. He is very focused. I and and loves again loves what he does. He loves teaching at Saint Louis U.. Hi loves that school like you did and He loves being there and they love him knock on wood And so he's he is out of the four that I I would think would be out of the box and does well is Kevin. I don't I never thought of him. Being an entrepreneur and he is not like. Here's a prized by. What really? Yeah he was going to do this is i. Think he'd be a teacher he'd be happy You know making the money he's making it. Saint Louis you high and and I think he is really now focused on doing things different. He loves the people that work for him at the Improv. Yeah he kind of has the same thing we have with our radio audience like they love that they absolutely love and it's like its own little family. That's that's what he's got to cover. He's got the people that come down there. They loved the bar. They love the food they they love their shows. They most importantly he's got the people that worked for him. There that are there because they love it they love it. They're you know they're surely not there for the monetary part of it. They're there because they are dedicated to that to that program down there And hats off to him. He's always looking for something to invest in always. He's Don East. I just what I'm saying. I just have a great deal of admiration admiration for Danny as a as a father right and for cabin for. Were you know taking something out of thin air in creating something even if it didn't work though I respect the takes to take the chance you know what I mean because a lot that was sitting cubicle and then they go on sixty and shit. I wish I would've done it. No I'm with you. I'm with an even if it doesn't work out because man for everyone that wins. There's probably five that don't and And then you have As we were talking about earlier what was a surprise in one thousand nine hundred forty almost forty three right when Mara was born right. So you still kind of not really done because if you have a daughter as a A more something coming down. Hopefully someday our Mara like I said I mean I remember going. You don't WanNa go tomorrow Soccer Mike. Why would I wanNA watch girls high school soccer? I mean what the Hell Hell and then I go and I'm like this is like watching like a machine. Her her soccer high school soccer team. which like I said one won a state championship in watching her? Our plan. Remember like if there was a loose ball and she had to run and she was going after it with somebody else she was going to win. I mean she was so fast he was fast money fast. Yeah and also incredibly intelligent. Yeah yes and Dick Westbrook which coach Glenn Visitation Academy He He he had a lot to do with her success as Mara was kind of like Danny Out there very Not of selfish player. One time she passed off he took her out of the game and said. Don't you ever pass that ball again. You take that shot. Mara you take that shot you know so anyway again different personalities But I think Kevin and more have the most like all the intensity I agree. Okay absolutely yeah and Mr is intense and made a job change in doing very very well and and But again she's low key not at that job but she's driven a give her opportunities to change things and she changes them and and she's she's done well all right some We'll we'll wrap this up What do you feel like you know now that you didn't know when you were twenty because I feel like the reason I asked I I'll ask anybody who comes in there that this question but I feel like I've told Anna Marie? Hey this is it. I feel like my dad is not necessarily a different guy now so much as some of the stuff that you say now is more about enjoying your life life as opposed to going out. You have a chance to make this right this more. I remember when we were talking about me doing six to seven leading into TMA. I figured you'd be like Oh. Oh yeah absolutely and you probably I can sell that and then going well. You know I don't know you gotta be gotta be there for James and that's the most important thing. Well I think tim not that. I can't be for it but but then it's GonNa all be spread a lot more thin by getting up early and then still have things after the show but I mean that's that's one example. My point is you're all about at this point now trying to enjoy life perhaps more than when you were charged on the hill like you're talking about and that's the thing I think. At twenty years old twenty. He won twenty two just starting out in a career that I want to do well in. I really wanted to be successful because I enjoyed it i. I loved being around that television station. I loved being out there Amongst people and and and and being part of something thing that I thought was unique. you know That station signed on in one thousand nine hundred fifty nine so Nineteen sixty eighty five. It's only six years old The fellow that was in the mail room before me was a gentleman named Jim Corno. Who did really really well became? I'm a multimillionaire. Working with the post out of out of Chicago built their sports programs and everything else there In reflecting back yeah. I'm not as intense as I used to be. Because you know it's it's not the game anymore for me I don't have to go out and and work hard today so I can pay my gas bill. I don't have to do that. 'cause I've I've been lucky enough. Have to make some pretty decent investments through the years You know I I WANNA make sure if anything ever happens to me. Mom's taking care of that. She doesn't in half to worry about anything. That's something that I was thinking about. When I was twenty twenty two years old I wanted to make sure I got you guys educated and and had a nice ice life That was the priority. When I was in my twenties and thirties and even with my forties with Mara So the intensity level when you don't know what you're going to make is you're always up. I mean there's so many times Tim Miller Danijel say oh. I'M GONNA take zone so out to lunch tomorrow. You can't believe sitting there knowing you're gonNA pay for this is launch. Are This lady's launch and you really don't want to be there with them. But these are things that you do in sales and you smile and you say that's great and Blah Blah Blah. I don't have to be necessarily up all the time anymore. I love my life the way it is right now I love what's going on in my life. I loved it. I I Your mom and I are going to have everybody the Christmas. She loves that The grandkids will be there. She loves the AD You know in two days after that were on you. I love that and so and you know I think we all have sacrificed to do what we've done in life I feel like I've been somewhat. What successful and what I've been able to achieve and And I thank thank God for where I am right now in life. I really do all right. Well I thought for sure we would both weep during during this and it never had Pete Pete. Did you ever start crying. 'cause we didn't we didn't bring a Stanley Cup. Heat immediately goes never it never happened. Gray that Is Is this was Thank you guys I love you I love you Tim and Pete I love you. I love you to end. My Dad loves you thank you yeah I feel like the real a sale seminar. Actually I think there was a lot in there for salespeople as well But I thank you so much for enjoyed the conversation. Thank you so there is Timothy. J mckernan with me and gangster gangster. Pete you got love right there at the end as well. Oh yeah that's great. Probably not expecting activator. He received love right there at the end of the interview I honestly thought as I said going into it. I said I don't want to do the interviews. I think we're both GONNA wind up weeping. I've seen my dad when speaking publicly about his family breakdown. I don't WanNa say a lot but it's been you know it it. I've seen a decent number of times and so I didn't really want to do that to him and I thought it was kind of a given that it would happen and then I'd start crying and it'll be a whole thing and some people might really like that Some people might be like okay. You know but I mean that's what I that's truly what I thought was going to happen and it it didn't happen and it didn't even come close to happening. I don't think which I would bet on that all day long that that was going to happen. So I guess that just shows he can turn on the professional and separate the personal. And you know that's that's that's sprint. I throughout his career Which surprised me anything to you? I mean you're sitting here watching a father and son have a conversation. Anything stand out. I know you are very close to your. I believe the root of when you get emotional with the blue stuff because you think your dad. That's what I think's going. That's a big part of it Well I was just sitting there the whole time I was thinking man. This is really cool. I'd like to do this. My Dad You ought to do it. I think I will also I thought he had some really good business lessons and then it was cool. How he kind? It did what he realized that he needed to do stuff that made him happy and he said he could always make money when he needed to kind of like but he always felt that way. 'cause I guess in sales you know. This isn't the side of the business I'm on but you know. People have accounts poll because New People come in the game accounts. And I'd be like man that would have to Piss you off because because now 'cause I just go out and get enough get new business and then you get a higher commission on the new business that I would on the ones that I would hold onto and I go well. That's good. That just shows you have confidence in your ability to move product product. Which is why he you know so successful with it? So plus it's the personality I don't know I and I feel like I don't know if I I don't know I was driving home from the interview and I felt like maybe maybe I needed to delve more into the family element of it than the business element of it. I don't know I don't know I don't know what people wanted to here. I have no idea if you've listened. You Should Interview Your Dad But the family stuff to me and this is my reasoning is private. You know I mean if he wants to talk about me as a as a person who is perceived public figure. That's one thing but if he starts talking about getting into my brother and my other brother or my sister I mean. They're not they're not they don't radio shows so that's that's private So I kind of tried to keep it a surface level thing so maybe if we would have gotten deeper into that then he would have been more. You're trying to avoid getting emotional. No I wasn't I was because I figured out what happened. I didn't I didn't I didn't think it was even choice. He was going to happen in by but I but I I you know you can't. You can't have him in the not talk about his other three children all of whom I don't think there's any any doubt if there were a secret poll conducted amongst our family. All of whom would have a higher likable rating than me inside the family. There's no doubt in my mind on that that I am six There's back in by the way deservedly so But you know they're not in a position where the audience knows who they might know who they are might know one of my my brother's sister but They don't do a show so they shouldn't be exposed to like having their lives. Put out there. I'd say that's how I view that stuff Like if my dad is comfortable talking about something about him that he can do that if he wants to talk about. You know that element. That's fine but getting in that's that was about that was part of it But yeah I thought for sure there's going to be leaping there was there was never any weeping but I'm so grateful now that no matter what I will always be able to play that for myself and for my son and for my brother's kids And that's kind of the thought process on it. 'cause if I wouldn't have done it I'd regret it and that is essentially the the summary summary I if I wouldn't have done it I would have regretted so I didn't WanNA regret it So it's the fear of regret is what it was and I'm glad I did it once we started going. I'm like this. This is a great thing and he was excited to do it and so now we've got that we've got that story. It's some things I didn't know as I said So thank you to those of you. Who not only recommended he did? But who Who again politely explained why I should do it or at least something I should consider when deciding whether or not to let me put it that way? Because who's in a position. Listen to tell somebody what they should or shouldn't do. But you know something you should consider if you're debating whether or not to do it is you might come to a point where you really wish he would have done it and think about that. Now you can do it. Think about you. Know down the road where that might not necessarily be an option And that's that's what That's that's what that's what that's led to this today so Grateful to the audience especially on this one Hopefully people Got Got an idea you know they heard me talk about my dad or the cat and dog really more talk about my dad but Minimum I think a sense for Why he has been successful zestful in sales from from hearing tell his story and how he would lead a sale staff? So thank you to gangster. Pete thank you to Iggy thank you to my father of course and thank you to you for listening. Thank you Ryan Kelly. Thank you to James Carlton. Thank you to mark Hanna. Thank you to Johnny landover. Chevrolet Chevy find new roads and thank you to South Gold Camper designer diner heating cooling the number one train dealer in the north designer service DOT com. I'm Tim mckernan. This has been another edition of the Tim. Carney show on the inside. Steel podcast our from the home loan expert Dot Com.