The Sporting Life: 1/18/19
welcome to the sporting life with Jeremy shabby. Over the next hour. Former Rams quarterback Mark Bolger SIS Jared Goff can handle the spotlight in this weekend's NFC championship to maintain. And I'm sure he will good head on his shoulders. It's not easy to get to the position. You know, the NFC championship game this early in a career of youth officiated in keep doing exactly what he's doing obviously working plus vulgar, discussing his run at the twenty twenty two Winter Olympics in curling initially. They thought it was maybe a gimmick, and we kinda making a mockery of it. But after they lost their slide in the way, we play the way we respect the beginning. They started to get a better understanding, we're really serious about good, man. And his new tell all memoir Trevor Krause reveals the tricks. He's learned from years of sneaking into the world's biggest sporting events. Thirty one in total the masters three World Series game during that twenty eleven World Series Super Bowl in Indianapolis. When the giant beat the patriots for the second time and Wimbledon final. And a bunch of other sporting events in the US. This is the sporting life on ESPN radio and the ESPN app. Here's Jeremy shop. Welcome to another Bishop scoring life will be speaking later in the show to the author of a new book about the art of sneaking into sports events will also be talking to former NFL quarterback Mark Bolger on conference championship game weekend. But I as this week we reflect on Martin Luther King junior's legacy. We celebrate pioneers in the struggle for equal rights. Joining us here on the show a pioneer in the field of sports, the first Latina Commissioner of a division one college sports conference glory of our as of the west coast conference. Gloria thank you for being with us. Thank you for having me, Jeremy and advancing the conversation. Appreciate it. You've been on the job now for almost a year. What does the experience been like I you've worked at the conference before you became the Commissioner? What's it like being the boss? You know, everyone asks me how it's what is like to be back. And I have to say what I love about this. League is existing league. Same you know, culture values a lot of the same people. But over the ten years since I've been gone, and then now back it has become a completely differently. There's so much momentum and energy and enthusiasm about investments and really elevating the profile of the west coast conference school. So it's really a fun. I've termed it as a tipping point in the league. And I'm really excited to be back in to be a part of it. Lose. You don't know west coast conference includes BYU, Gonzaga, Loyola Marymount Pacific, Pepperdine, Portland. Saint Mary's San Diego, San Francisco, and Santa Clara, some of the best sceneries certainly in the country as some of the best sites for schools, and and some very strong athletic schools. You know, as someone who is now the first doing what she is doing as Latina. What's the significance of that for you? You know, at first it really wasn't on my mind when pursuing and trying to win the job when we were dropping, you know, it'd be paying clear that you know, this. This is a talking point this is an achievement and for me, I really hope that it was which in young girls young women who might be looking at careers in sports the pink that they too can do this about thirty two division one. Commissioners head of which are women, and there will be a future. When one of those BCS power five conferences of led by a woman. Speaking with Laurie Navarre's of the west coast conference. She is the first Latina Commissioner of a division one sports conference, and you help high-profile jobs before this. You're one of the top athletic administrators at the university of Oklahoma. For instance, you worked previously in the west coast conference. What is the biggest challenge? These days what constitutes most important responsibilities for division one conference Commissioner there several obviously. But I think right now in this day and age, it's really leading with integrity. I think there's a lot of question were, you know, about the ball? We don't have football and the events that are going on in men's basketball the federal investigation that weighs heavily on a lot about. And what it means to, you know, be a guardian of the sport and the opportunity to provide for so many deserving young people that I think it's been coming upon all. Us to to try to get our arms around this and and fix these issues. The investigation, of course, the federal investigation into wrongdoing in college basketball involving shoe companies as well, it's gone, very wide. And it's gone, very deep, exposing a culture that many people say has been around for a long time these crimes and ledge crimes. We're kind of hiding in plain sight is it really going to change the way businesses done in college basketball. I hope so, you know, at serve on the way oversight committee for men's basketball, and on in the discussions on all the different levels of change that were trying to get through the system, but you know, at the heart of it as a Commissioner of the west coast conference, you know, we're about to enter the another NC double A tournament James will be selected chain blow. Vance teams will do and should team get penalized. After the fact. I just think that's really unfair for those who have done as well. Both the coaches the administration student athletes who've done by the rules to then losing opportunity, you know, for some of the once in a lifetime opportunity to either go to the tournament or advance in the tournament. You know, you can't get those opportunities back. So I I really hope in and trying to help move the needle as far as getting our arms around this and and making positive change as quickly as we can in order to to bring back that balance speaking with. We're speaking with Gloria Navarrese of the west coast conference. She became last year in March twenty eighteen the first Latina Commissioner of division one athletic conference was coast conference includes schools, like get zagging, Loyola Marymount Pepperdine. You're there was a time. When running a conference was more of a administrative job, making sure that the rules were being followed. It's become hasn't really a business job negotiating TV contracts, negotiating sponsorship deals, it really is more of an NBA job than sports management job than it used to be is that right here right on what I started at started the world of compliance. You know, fresh out of Cal law school. I might law degree trying to find something to do with it in sport and conferences were generally thought of governance entities. Championship administrators making sure everybody played nice scheduled creators, whereas the modern conference is very much responsible for as you referenced the negotiation of costumes meteorites. But in addition to that, you know, a very much more external function as far as branding the group as a league trumpeting the story lines and being the platform from which to tell the stories within the league. Now, even ourselves many league had digital networks, very robust interconnected websites all of our schools, and it really is about the promotion of our brands and our schools stories and trying to get the broadest reach possible. What is it was like every day, you know, being in a business environment. Having to go sheet. All that stuff that's financial when the missions of your member institutions are. Our key missions. When those things come into conflict with each other conference perspective, you know, every day in whatever you do if you're in sales, or in whatever product, if you believe in the product, it's it's a pretty exciting and fun endeavor. And I really believe in the student experience. I played basketball in college myself. I think it is a one of a kind lifetime opportunity, and it's a game changer provide you the skills and experience that make you successful in the sweet. And if whatever we can do here in the small sliver that is college athletics to help enhance that experience. And then that's you know, what we do. So every dollar we bring in if it doesn't go to operating or small staff here in San Bruno. It goes back to the schools to help better that experience through their scholarship dollars through their athletic training through their study support. You know, you name it. There's a lot that goes into it. That that is more than just, you know, putting a camera on a game and putting the ball through someone who played college sports and someone who grew up in the age of title nine, and you've seen what a watershed that was if there's one overriding story in sports, I think over the last four plus decades, it is the emergence of the female athlete as a true force in the sports landscape. What do you how do you view your role as a champion of women's sports as the Commissioner of the west coast conference? Yeah. You know, funny. We were just talking about that in the context of the conference this week as we were kind of digging into our brand analysis, and how arly has we have a strong social Justice background. We are the league Bill. Russell brandy. Chest Chastain, liberated the sports bra while she was playing at Santa Clara you and I think there are a lot of break story out there. And as you know, being in the media, it's. It's a battle for women to get equal or important and relevant time in front of fans, and in the media space, and so as the conference office the wave we can help further that effort is to provide good opportunity to be seen on different platforms or television agreements to the best. We can lever gene our men games. You get opportunities for the women to ensure that the events we put on in the tournament settings or equal and important and valued and to continue to champion what a great experience, it is to watch these women competed such a high level, it just keeps growing and growing interest in in women's sports across the board gloried of ours is the Commissioner of the west coast conference. She's the first Latina to lead a division one sports conference flurry. Thank you so much for joining us here as we. We pay tribute to legacy of Martin Luther King junior. Cami for having me. And for everything you do as far as investigative journalism around social Justice much. Appreciate it. The sporting life on ESPN radio and the ESPN app. This weekend. We have the conference title games in the NFL determining who will be the participants in Super Bowl fifty three. One of the teams participating, of course, the Los Angeles Rams who play the New Orleans Saints Sunday afternoon. The other conference title game. We've got the patriots at the chiefs in Kansas City, joining us to discuss the NFL and the conference title games. Former NFL quarterback former Rams quarterback Mark Bolger? Mark. Thank you for being with us. Of course. Nice. Having me, Jeremy Mark, you know, the Rams pretty much obliterated the Cowboys to get to this conference championship game. Was that what you were expecting end with them being at home. I kinda did. And it's no disrespected Dallas. It was just you know, they they had such a tough game the week before in the Rams, you know, they had struggled towards the unto. But they're just so talented in you know, the way they're being coached and. Their quarterback at girl. You know? It's just I think they're on a roll, you know, Steph and be a tough a tough road to go through New Orleans. You spent a decade in Saint Louis with the Rams you still have the same kind of affinity for the team. Even though it's moved back to Los Angeles. It's a little tougher. I'm here in Nashville. So it's out there. But it was amazing when we're in Saint Louis following we had, you know, from the west coast because we are, you know, with Arizona, and San Francisco and Seattle in the fan base out there for the decades with the Rams, we would go to games, and we'd have the five and ten thousand people there, and it was just I knew if they ever went back that there will be no issue with the fan base being there. And obviously now they have the product on the field. So it's it's exciting for all its former players, you know, Jared Goff the Rams quarterback in the moment. He's only he's only twenty four years old. He's already been named to his second Pro Bowl. What is the ceiling? Forgot how. Good. Can he be Mark good as he wants? I mean, he just he he makes things look easy. I used to see that when I was in Baltimore with with Joe flacco when he was he was really rolling when guys make it look easy. You know, they're playing really well. And you just have to maintain it. I'm sure he will like I said they got the you got a good head on his shoulders. And it's it's not easy to get to the position. You know, the NFC championship came, you know, this early in your career. So he needs to appreciate it can keep doing exactly what he's doing. 'cause it's obviously working and keep keep girly healthy. And I think they'll be all right. Yeah. Remarkable running back as well. Now. Now that we're speaking with Mark Bolger the former NFL quarterback he spent nine seasons playing quarterback for the Saint Louis Rams. You were drafted though by the Rams opponents in the NFC title game. You're drafted by the saints. You never played for them. You were drafted. I believe in the year two thousand the same year. As Tom Brady. Drew Brees was just one year behind. It is a remarkable to you to see drew Brees returned forty this week playing in the NFC title game in playing as well as he has all season long. It's amazing. It honestly doesn't surprise me though. 'cause I know drew his work ethic. Yeah. In two thousand I was at the combine in alphabetically who you're your groups are walking around and Indianapolis and and Tom Brady, obviously, it's Tom Brady. We were you know, we traveled around there, and we were both rapid in the sixth round and his work ethic is second to. So it's just it's actually exciting to watch these, you know, older guys. Now, I'm on I'm not buying anymore, obviously. But their work ethic pays off. And a, you know, it's not surprising that over the lung Javadi of their careers because you could see it a young age if you knew nine years ago eight years ago, Mark your career you retired in two. Two thousand ten after the two thousand ten season after playing for a decade in the league, which is a long fruitful lucrative career. But if you know then that nine years later, we'd be talking about two guys drew Brees and Tom Brady still at the top of their games. Do you think you would have managed managed your body differently? Manage your expectations for how long you could play all those things differently. They you know, we're talking about two year contemporaries are still in league. I it was a little bit. You know aid yourself. It was a different game. When I was retiring, you, you know, you're still getting driven in the ground. And you know, we had a system where we were taking seven step asses. You know, our drops and nowadays, it's pretty much shotgun and get rid of the ball. You're obviously going to take your hips, and I'm not thinking enough of those guys. But again, they work hard. They manage their bodies. Well, you. You know, I could have stayed in the league, but I I had attack out and those guys are tougher than I am. I think. The matchup itself the saints. The Rams I think it's kind of a tough one to call team's been so productive and the defenses have been time surprisingly effective as well in Orleans. Wait, Lou, how do you see this game going? I think it's all cyclical if the pendulum in mid nineties late nineties, it was guys running around early two thousands. And you know, your your body just can't put up with that. And so then it goes back to the dropback passer. And then it goes to the short passes and use defensive coaches and players they're paid. Just about as much as the offense. And they're gonna figure out a way to stop this run pass option zeal, and it'll go back the other way, and that's not saying, you know, RPO's bad. It's just it. It'll all go back and forth. But at the end of the day, you know, you look at the drew Brees, Tom Brady's? No it is. It's unbelievable. How it is about seventy five eighty percent mental for a quarterback in the NFL. You look market Tom Brady and say, you know, if only I never ate red meat or drank coffee. Drank wine. You know, I could still be playing at forty one. You know, those things they get away. Sometimes DNA. This might be a little better. I like my caffeine a little bit, and I like steak and all that stuff. But it's it is fun though to watch him because you know, the work just as a former quarterback that he puts in during the week, not just the physical, but the mental part, and drew they know where they're going with the ball before the play even happens and for a short time in Saint Louis. You know, I had that with Isaac Bruce Torry Holt and Marshall fall, I look at coverage, and you try not to laugh because you could just look over and make eye contact with the Torry Holt. And I said we just knew here comes the touchdown and nine times out of ten, you know, with coach Marta system it happened. And I think those guys haven't continuity, I think people right that, you know, Sean Payton and drew them together for x years, you know, combat. He's been in Saint system for x years. But when you get quarterbacks there, maybe, you know, even physically better than those guys they have to switch coaches over and over again. And it's very difficult. It's it's like speaking English, and then trying to translate over to French, and then the Spanish, and you're not gonna you're not gonna translate. He was quick. And those guys have been in one language for pretty much their whole careers, which is a huge benefit. We're speaking with Mark Bolger. The former NFL quarterback longtime Rams quarterback also played for the ravens. What do you think? Rams saints who's gonna win this game? Mark. I'm alone him. You know, I'm definitely a drew Brees fan, and I do like coach Peyton I just I gotta pull from guys that's not saying they're going to win. But like I said if it's going to be a really difficult, then you I know that city will be on fire down there. So, but I don't know. I think the momentum right now is with the Rams and not just their offense. But if defensive line some special, so I gotta go with the Rams and a close one we're speaking with Mark Bolger, the former NFL quarterback he will join us in our next segment as well to speak about. A shifting focus for him on the landscape in sports. This is the sporting life on ESPN radio and the ESPN app. Joined again by former NFL quarterback, Mark Bolger spent ten seasons in the league playing for the Rams playing for the ravens hasn't been in professional football now in eight years, but Mark your athletic career is not at an end, you are a competing again. Can you tell us about this? This most recent ambition of yours. It sounds ridiculous. But right before the US team won the Olympic gold, buddy. Jared Allen that used to plan league for many many years called makes we both moved to Nashville and said I want to be an Olympian. So we looked into badminton, and I watched today the badminton online, and I told Jared, you're crazy. We we have no chance if that was give me week give me week you found curling. And then we were able to convince piece Bullock played, you know, forever. The NFL and Mike Reuss the teammates. And Tennessee and we've been training hard for seven months, and we have Olympic coaches and our goal is to make make Olympic curlers. You guys want to be in the Olympics as curlers? I mean, we're three years away from the Olympic Games in China. The winter games in four former all pro football players have decided they want to be Olympic curlers phys. Do you guys have any chance you ask every one of us? I say, we do, you know, we've definitely taken our lump so far we're training a ton in. I mean, we go to Minnesota twice a month to Olympic training center with our coach we train here in Nashville. We all live here. We were just in Minnesota. We were just in Vegas this past weekend. We go to Tempe in two weeks. We played the Olympic team ready. We played US. Yeah. And you know, says I'm allergy guys it's like golf you just can't get behind in curling. There's a lot of strategy. And it's just a matter of not taking triple bogeys and hasn't been get a birdie, then then you're done. But we've learned our learning curve is a lot faster than most. And we've been accepted by the curling community, which is something we didn't expect. So, but it's it's been so much fun. So far, you can imagine the skepticism, of course, Mark your and analogy guy. Let's let's flip it. I Ted if a bunch of, you know, very success. Decibel? I mean, you guys are four former all pros of very successful curlers decide, you know, what we want to play in the NFL. We'll figure out what's the best position. Maybe it's punting. Maybe it's kick gig, maybe defensive back, whatever it is. You know? Of course, everybody would laugh at them. This is not this is not laughable. There's something you guys feel is attainable. But how does the community of curling view you guys as far as you know? Initially. They thought it was maybe a gimmick. And we kinda making a mockery of it. The once we went we didn't tell anyone for five months. We train the first five months. Cape kept it below board. And then we finally went to our first tournament. You know, they we have cameras phone is. And they they didn't. I don't think perspective too much. But after they watched our slides, and the way we played and the way we respected the game. There's a lot of you know, just gentlemen rules in emails, obviously play to it's. They started to get a better understanding that we're we're really serious about this. You take the game seriously respect it. And we're honestly gonna bring a lot of light to sport that we've come to love already only in seven eight months of doing it. We're speaking with Mark Bolger, the former NFL quarterback who is now putting heart and soul into his effort to become an Olympic curler. You know, we heard these stories thirty years ago, Mark when there were number of pro football players who decided they were going to be winter Olympians as Bob sledders. But they were they were younger guys. Did you guys? Did you guys ever consider Bob sledding or was that not one of the sports other than badminton that interested you? If you've seen my legs you were though, I couldn't I didn't do bobsledding. I'm not that strong down there. But you know, it's it's one of the sports against similar to call. You can play older older guys that are you know in their fifties. And you think you're going to beat them. But then you know, it's short game the putting emphasis with curling. You know, these these guys have been doing it so long and the bait you and they strategize. You and they put the stone exactly where they want. And it's frustrating all hats. But that's why I'm happy. I'm domin. My, you know, forty one dollars year, it's thirty six he's forty one and Mike, you know, his upper thirty so we're we're not spring chickens. But we're pretty good. We can we can handle it. I gotta say again, we're speaking with Mark Bolger. I gotta say I love this story. This is like when I found out you guys were doing this. It just made me smile. I've covered a lot of Winter Olympics. I love the idea of you guys giving this a serious effort. You're clearly not mocking the sport. But you're you're doing if this sounds like a buddy movie in the making. Why do you why do you want this? Why do you feel you need this? I just did we we all have those competitive juices. And honestly, we we got into it. And we we bicker on the ice with each other. And those three are a lot bigger than me. And I say stuff to them like, oh, boy, I'm out on a football field anymore. I gotta watch myself. But it's it's one of those things we just wanted to say, you know, competitive sports. And this was the only way I think that we were able to do it. I know Vernon Davis curled, and I do think, you know, we were documenting most of this most packages most events, you know, we we have to travel really far north pretty much every weekend. But it would be a heck of a story. But more importantly, I think now that we're you were accepted in the computer community of curling. We do want to help promote the sport. Because it's it's just not as easy as it looks on TV. I I. I was one of those people trapped in that the same as golfers or or football players when someone makes it look easy. It's it's it's not that easy. Exactly. You know? What would you do? Jeremy you make it sound easy. When you're doing interviews. It's it's not easy. And we we appreciate that producers might disagree with that assessment. But thank you, Mark. I appreciate the compliment. We're speaking with Mark Bolger, the former NFL quarterback now aspiring Olympic curler. It's just a straight story. It's such a great story. I gotta say I was at when curling was a demonstration sport before it was a medal sport back in nineteen Ninety-two and Albertville at at those Winter Olympics, I was at the curling venue. And I'll never forget it was in Pralognan, Lavin wise in France. And at that point, nobody in the US knew anything about curling. It was before you know, everybody became a curling fan. I'll remember if it was Salt Lake City in two thousand and two or it really took off where it was turned in two thousand six, but it's remarkable have that. Sport has exploded in the public consciousness because of its inclusion on the Olympic program. I just think it's great that you guys four former NFL pros are giving it a shot. It's been a pleasure, Mark. Thank you so much for joining us here on the sporting life enjoy conference championships Sunday, and we hope to have you again here on the show any time. Jeremy thanks again for having. These these the sporting life on ESPN radio and the ESPN app. And in two weeks the biggest event on the sports calendar will arrive, of course, that is the Super Bowl, and it's not just the most watched event Bruce also in many ways the most obsessed over event that includes getting into the game to see it. Although there are those who will tell you it's harder to get into the conference championship games because they are in the respective cities of the teams that are playing in them or the semi finals of the final four. Nevertheless, the Super Bowl occupies a unique spot in the American consciousness, and it's also unique spot when it comes to getting into the game. Getting it ticket being there in person. It's on the bucket list for many sports fans, and that is a subject that brings us to our next guest. He is the author of a new book called ticketless how sneaking into the Super Bowl and everything else. Us almost held my life. Together, the authors Trevor Krause, and he's with us now. Thanks for joining us. Trevor. Oh, thank you. Jeremy, it's a pleasure to be talking with you. Trevor your book is not just about the Super Bowl or seeking into the Super Bowl. It's about this hobby. I could say you have of getting into sports events without a valid ticket. Where did it all start for you? Well, it started. When I was thirteen years old. My dad brother, and I die hard Saint Louis cardinal fans. Took a trip to Chicago to see the cardinals play the cubs at Wrigley field. And we have tickets for the Sunday night baseball finale was a four game series. But obviously we were there for the weekend. So we went up to Wrigley on Saturday. And the plan was just to hang out, you know, Shaq some batting practice fly balls and watch the game at a at a bar or something. But my dad who was. A call him crafty. He had a lot of a lot of a lot of great traits and a lot of not so great ones, which is another another theme of the book. But he was crafty when it came to these kinds of things and he's spotted a ramp that was like a construction zone. They were building a a patio outside of Wrigley field. And he said boys, hold my hand. And just follow me. And the next thing I knew we were inside Wrigley field and saw the game for free. So that's how it all got started. When I was thirteen and then the I picked up the hobby again when I when I got to college you're from Saint Louis as you said, and you've written about sneaking into the World Series, the Rangers and the cardinals getting in there getting into I guess it was was the football game. Nebraska, Missouri when misery and a great team. Right. That was the first one I did in college was Missouri visited Nebraska. And didn't have a ticket and didn't want to contribute to Nebraska university. You know, that's a that's a hated rival from zoo. So wanna take it in there without a ticket? As you say the the norm Stewart theory that you should not contribute. Anything to the local economy of the teams that you you dislike? Exactly. Yeah. He said that about Kansas Missouri's other biggest rival I felt the same way. Nebraska, speaking with Trevor crafts new book is ticketless how sneaking into the Super Bowl and everything else almost almost parentheses held my life together. Now, they're few different ways. You go about it. But but generally your method it's not a elaborate. It's not like a JAMES BOND kind of thing. You just get up to the turnstile. And typically, you do what at that moment. Well, I'll kind of fumble in my in my pockets, for example, if there's a turnstile and that'll make the ticket taker expect to see a ticket which gives me time to pass through the turnstile and once I'm through there's not a a layer of security. Behind the ticket taker all there is is a busy concourse teaming with fans going every which way and wearing the home team's colors, of course. So if I can get lost in that crowd. I can just I can I can disappear wear a black jacket and underneath the home team's colors, and as I'm running in the crowd. I'll take off the jacket. Maybe I'll take off the hat that I had on and and it's really that easy to get lost. And once you're in the concourse, there's no one checking your tickets at at most section entrances, for example, and can find standing room only section or an empty seat from there? I feel a little guilty. I have two kids sess Trevor because I feel like this is almost a tutorial telling people how to get into stadiums. Without a valid ticket. How how many times have you done this thirty one in total right about I write about twenty three of them in the book, including the masters three World Series games as you mentioned during. At twenty eleven World Series Super Bowl in Indianapolis. When the when the giants beat the patriots for the second time. And a Wimbledon Wimbledon final in twenty eleven and a bunch of other sporting events in in the US. Now, we got the Super Bowl coming up. But that's really kind of the the dramatic Lynch pin of the story. So I I'm not gonna ask you to tell us that story it'd be giving too much away. We're speaking with Trevor Krause, his new book is ticketless how sneaking into the Super Bowl and everything else almost held my life together. What is going through your mind as you're approaching the turn style. And you know that you could end up getting arrested. Well, that's true. What's going through my mind is what is behind the ticket taker the second the second layer, he will I was a ticket taker myself at it was called Scott Trade Center and Saint Louis where the Saint Louis blues play during high school, and then again after college, and so I learned there that there really is. Is nothing like I mentioned behind behind the behind the ticket taker so before deciding which turnstile or which ticket taker is going to be my my target. I've made a lap around the entire stadium and carefully chosen a location where there's no security guard behind the ticket taker sometimes there will be at some entrances there will be you know, off duty police officers or supervisors who wear suits and ties typically so I want to avoid that at all cost. And I'm also looking for a fast route to the upper levels of the stadium where there is far less security because that's where I automatically want to end up. Why do you think you do this and you risk this? First of all, I mean, I'm a die hard sports fan. And there's nothing that I love more than a sold out stadium for a big game. My dad was a huge influence in my life and a huge influence in my sports, fandom and. While I was in college his his life, really spiraled out of control. He he was never diagnosed. But the doctors that he talked to believed that he had clinical depression, and I always tell myself as a lot like him. We were very very close. And so really spin moving as I call it sneaking into games gave me something that I felt I could be I could be great at a legacy. If you will while I was worried that I would become my father as I grew up, and I saw a troubled future ahead of me, but sneaking into games as the as the subtitle of the book says held my life together gave me a sense of purpose. And when I would do it with friends in my fraternity at at the university of Missouri. We created memories on like any other. And there's and they remain my most cherished memories of my life. Speaking to Trevor crowd. Yes. About his new book. Ticketless? I am Trevor before we let you go. I I'm sure there are those who would argue this is in some ways of victimless crime. But of course, all those revenues add up to something and pay for something. And I don't want to dismiss that give her feel bad about doing this. I don't I never have. And that's because almost every single one of the games, I've snuck into sold out already. So if anything when I sneak into an already sold out game, and I buy, you know, a beer and a bag of peanuts. That's an extra twenty dollars credit contributed to the ownership group of of whatever team or in the case of the Super Bowl, the the NFL, and I felt even more justified. I guess would be the word when the Rams left Saint Louis a couple years ago. It was it was clear to me that STAN Kroenke, the owner made no effort whatsoever to to keep the Rams in Saint Louis, and that's a team that I I. Cherished. And so I feel like if if the owners of sports franchises are going to treat it like such a business as is their right to then fans are justified in treating their phantom like a business and and trying to get into stadiums as cheaply as possible. Well, please wanting Trevor but seeking in his different. I mean, I don't want to belabor the point. But you do recognize that I do the truth is, I I I don't think it's wrong. Because there's as you mentioned, there's there's no victim. And there aren't any really negative consequences because among other things I've been through the security check point. So it's not like, I'm a security threat. So yeah, I understand the argument that it's immoral that it's wrong. But I don't I don't see it that way. And most of the people I've talked to most of the people who've read the book who've been interested in my in my stories, see it the same way his new book. Es ticketless how sneaking into the Super Bowl and everything else almost held my life together. Trevor thanks so much for joining us here on the sporting life that my pleasure, Jeremy, thank you. Thanks for having joined us, I'm Jeremy shop, and this has been the sporting life on ESPN radio. We're on every Saturday and every Sunday morning at six eastern time. These these the sporting life on ESPN radio and the ESPN app.